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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by: David Poston on 11/26/2002 at 7:32:29 AM
I am thinking about switching to a longer stem on my Raleigh DL-1 rod brake handlebars (22" frame). Is this possible? Do the handlebars come off the stem? Will I need longer rods in my brake assembly?

Right now my stem protrudes about four inches above the headset locknut, and that is the highest it will safely go.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Mucus on 11/26/2002 at 5:02:03 PM
No. The bars are brazed to the stem. If you are good at de-brazing MAYBE with a lot of effort it could be done, but everything would need to be rechromed, and well, it'd just be too expensive, and difficult, no? OR, and it's a big "or", you could cut the stem about half way down, and braze on extra length. But, I think this would be difficult, and potentially dangerous.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by David Poston on 11/26/2002 at 8:48:58 PM
How come I see NOS Raleigh stems show up on e-bay? Are these for the "North Road" Sports bars?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by David Bean on 11/27/2002 at 12:56:42 AM
There are stem raising fittings that fit into the steerer and have an open part on top for the real stem to fit into (I have one). I'm not sure about size - what's the diameter of the roadster stem? And, of course, the brake rods would be too short.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Ian on 11/27/2002 at 10:01:51 AM
David, the front brake stirrups definitely came with different length tubular pieces on the top and I am fairly sure that the rod down from bars is available in different lengths too. If you can solve the stem problem then I am sure the brakes could be connected back up. Regards, Ian.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Matthew on 11/27/2002 at 7:27:12 PM
I would go for the new longer stem complete with handlebars, i.e. the one peice as original. The separate stems are for north road or dropped bars. I'm not sure about risers because of the leverage problems. I hope you can find a longer stem.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Chris on 11/30/2002 at 5:54:20 PM
After years of crazyness I sit there holding these extra long quill rod brake handlebars amazed like it was handed to me by radient angels. The sweetly sounding lady angel was asking me. "That do you?"
I snap out of it and it's my grubby, greedy, smelly, chubby bike pal( whom I count as a dear pal) asking: If I'm going to spend any more money today? I could never spend enough money there to make him happy. I look around and tell him he's running out of goodies for me and to go find more old inventory someplace!
I only have two rod brake machines with long stems. Two others have wide handlebars I have never seen before anyplace. The shop pal of mine stands over me shaking his head as I lean down in silence to study that bike for twenty minutes. Other customers are asking "What's he doing?" I am entranced by the wide and long stem on the handlebars with it's flawless chrome work. Finally, I'm told to: "Go get my crazy butt to the bank." I return, hand over the money, it's loaded up and soon it's home. "Ya, whatever." he says in the parking lot.
He said, "I thought of you, when that came in" Oh, if only I had that happen more and not all those ladies Dunelts, and Rudges. There was nothing magical about it from his standpoint. "Just another old bike" and "How soon is Chris gonna get his tail in here and pick it up?" type attitude.
Now back to the present reality. I am wondering why other more common and cheap handle bars from other Raleigh's could not be cut and stuck onto the existing rod brake handlebar and welded together from the inside with small metal shims or something so he has an extra long rod brake handlebar on his bike? The rods could be lengthened by finding and re- fitting longer rods on the attachemnt for these. A tap/ die is needed to cut the exact threads onto a longer homemade machined rod and you could use an regular expander wedge thingie. What is that tap size? I don't know!
Re- manufactured rod brake handlebars? Why not. God, it can't be that difficult can it?
Just do not go taking the leavers apart, leave that nut in place because even a nut like myself could not get those back together! He hands me them back and tells me that I destroyed it and the jobber rep dude shakes his head at me! They're still on the shelf to this day. Basket case rod brake handelbars in need of a savior. The joy of finding the really old Raleigh's is that these had the nice long handlebar stems. Later on, these got shortened. Drives me nuts that these old bikes with long handlebars stems and more are being thrown out!
It's time I go door to door. They'll think I'm a Mormon or Jehovas Witness and here it'll just be Chris with literature for them to read. Ads looking for old bikes.
How many houses can I visit in one day? Perhaps I'll join one of these churches for training purposes for a little while to learn the ropes.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Chris on 11/30/2002 at 6:06:21 PM
They had this clip on thing that you stuck the stem of any plain handlebar stwm through this thing and you tightened a bolt and nut and it was a single rod brake leaver with the rod and this way, any handlebar could be made into a rod brake handlebar. Rare and cool and I don't know where they are!
Even if I still have it in the stash someplace. I don't remember and now I'll be looking through sealed boxes again muttering "Where is it"? They were Italian! but they would fit anything rod brake. Simple and elegant and now missing!

He'll be asking me, Why did you want to travel through time?
To put right what once went wrong? To help people?
I'll say, "Hang No!"
I got tired of not being able to find the bicycles and parts I want to collect and enjoy and it bothered me to have suce trouble with availability of parts and services. Also, I wanted to see the people and old places long since gone. Yes, that'll be my answer when asked why I had to go traveling through the space/ time continium. Not some great humanitairan mission, unless it's along my way.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Switching rod brake handlebar stems posted by Chris on 11/30/2002 at 6:12:28 PM
David, e- mail Pashley and ask them if they could supply a special order extra long stem equiped rod brake handlebar.
besides the welding idea contained in my rambling thought below I can't think of what else to do.

AGE / VALUE:   Cleaning tyres posted by: David Poston on 11/26/2002 at 12:34:26 AM
Last night I set out to clean all my roadster tyres with a bottle of Bleche-White (advertised as the world's "best selling tire cleaner"), hoping to get them black again. The result: veritable disaster!

The Bleche-White, after drying, left the tyres with splotches of white-grey everywhere. I was horrified! I hurriedly rewet the tyres and scrubbed until the wee hours of the morning. I managed to get rid of some of the bleach, but I was still left with bleach stains. What to do? Is there a way I can get rid of this?

Another thing I've been wondering about is whether to use an auto tyre dressing (e.g., Armorall, Eagle One Wet, etc.) on my cycle tyres. The labels always read, "not for bicycles ....". What do you think?

Lesson learned: Beware of tyre cleaners containing bleach, especially Bleche-White. It will certainly turn your blackwalls white!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Cleaning tyres posted by dafydd on 11/26/2002 at 3:13:14 AM
I think the reason they say that is because they (Armorall at least) leave an extremely slippery residue, which probably would make braking seem like you're in a permanent rainstorm. It works wonders for seating stubborn tires, though! Spray it on a rag, wipe it on the bead, and pump away!

For mending the bleached tires, maybe black leather stain?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Cleaning tyres posted by Warren on 11/26/2002 at 3:14:25 AM
Don't use any slippery stuff like Armorall. Even if you try to keep it on the sidewalls it will easily migrate down to the tread an then there will be trouble.

Soap and water.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Cleaning tyres posted by Michael on 11/26/2002 at 9:12:37 PM
Shoe polish.

AGE / VALUE:   Triumph 3 speed posted by: Lincoln on 11/25/2002 at 6:30:20 PM
I just saved a Triumph ladies frame 3 speed from the trash.
Serial # 2248528 (no letters). There is a 55 on the Sturmey AW hub. Is this
really a 1955 bike? The lettering on the seat post is multicolored,
if that helps, looks nice. Paint is in pretty good shape. A bit of
rust here and there on rims and handlebars, but should clean up nicely.
Appears to be pretty much in good shape, tho definitely ridden a lot.
Black and white seat, I think metal covered with vinyl like on my old 1969 (or
therabouts) Hercules from childhood. Tires are replacements, as
they appear to be in good shape, held air overnight so far. Seemed
to ride ok, but the handlebars seem kind of close to the seat(I'm 5'10"
but normally like 21" frame); maybe they wouldn't if the seat was higher.
Any hints as to what it's worth? Anyone near Waltham, MA interested?


P.S. See elsewhere (I think the search is at
http://www.oldroads.com/avq1.asp) for a Gitane I
hope to unload and beater bikes I'm looking for.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Triumph 3 speed posted by Chris on 11/25/2002 at 6:42:46 PM
Yes,it really is a 1955 bike!
If the hub said 1954 then you could have had an alloy rear hub shell. Under the name Sturmey-Archer it would say Alloy.
Oh well, one year off!
Keep looking in the trash.
In my neck of the woods I never find these.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Triumph 3 speed posted by David Poston on 11/26/2002 at 7:39:28 AM

My 55 Raleigh Sports has the alloy rear hub.


AGE / VALUE:   Cycleing posted by: Tim Powell on 11/25/2002 at 1:47:54 PM
I came across this the other day. It is a very interesting article. http://www1.york.ac.uk/org/satsu/OnLinePapers/PR/appropriating/appropriating.htm

The bibliography contains many interesting reference sources.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Cycleing posted by Chris on 11/25/2002 at 6:36:14 PM
I had to print that out! Big words and I'll have to chew slowly on that one!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Cycleing posted by Michael K. on 11/25/2002 at 10:16:10 PM
WOW...that's some article, reminds me of my academic days as a researcher...how did you land on this thing in the first place?

Michael K.

To show ya how long I've been out of academia, I was saying to myself absent-mindedly, "where are the pictures?"...

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Great Scott...Look at those decals posted by: David Poston on 11/25/2002 at 1:18:29 AM
An interesting "Raleigh" made bike on e-bay...



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Great Scott...Look at those decals posted by Jeff R on 11/25/2002 at 12:44:51 PM
This bike was made by Phillips not Raleigh. Nice looking.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Interesting Scot, but it ain't a Flying Scot! posted by Chris on 11/25/2002 at 7:00:16 PM
I love that down tube decal in red!
You know you're hooked when you would ordinarily pass over a bike like this one, because it is too plain or common or because it is not another color or because it does not have a rear rack or bell or leather seat or pannier boxes or other candy like a map holder or Light set with D.B.U. tube.
No, I'm all set to pass by this one and not get it.......
Until when I see that red down tube decal! Bam! I bought it, it's loaded up, I'm driving down the street grinning like a fool. It is hanging up simply for me to look at that decal. When will I ever get around to shine and clean and polish it? I don't know.
Yes, that is when you are hooked on these!
The last one was just like this and it was even a ladies frame. I could at least keep them to men's models you would think!

Royal Scot by Raleigh is not to be confused with the famed: Flying Scot
A flying Scot machine is a whole diffrent and way, way more cool bike to be messing with. Bob Reid has a Flying Scot page. Type in Bob Reid's Flying Scot

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Great Scott...Look at those decals posted by David on 11/26/2002 at 4:11:41 AM
This has the old-style shifter with the lettering for mounting the trigger below the handlebar. My first English bike was like that (60s?), but it didn't take long to realize shifting was done much easier with it mounted upside-down.

AGE / VALUE:   Getting the giant to listen,re-pop parts, and a tangled mess posted by: Chris on 11/24/2002 at 8:29:54 PM
Why this issue? Why do we want to see parts made again?
Real consumer demand from all over the world!
This is not like anything else. More Raleigh bicycles were made than Norton Motorcycles or anything else like that!
I was looking up something or other the other day and I found that what I was looking for was sealed up until 2013.
No reason why, none is required to be given.
I had heard about an 3 rd world or copied Moulton that was found and sent to the club and the whole thing was intently followed by the good fellow himself. Dr. Alex Moulton! who has an interest in the whole adventure still. The good Dr. was not happy to hear of that. Isn't he Sir Alex Moulton these days? I would not go copying a Moulton! If you need something, you go throught the club and in last case appeal to the gentleman himself. These people are gentlemen too unless you go crossing them and then they are tigers.
Copy a older Moulton bike? No, Not ever!
Raleigh has got to be the same way. Somebody is watching intently and with interest and if you go crossing the line you'll hear about it.
If one coomes across like a pirate, they'll handle you like a pirate. If you come across as a sincere individual with workable ideas to help see this done properly then hopefully we'll have their cooperation and when the re- pop parts are done and you are looking at them it'll look right and not a like a cheap copy.

Schwinn had problems with their re-production parts that Raleigh would largely not have with their parts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Getting the giant to listen,re-pop parts, and a tangled mess posted by Chris on 11/24/2002 at 9:53:44 PM
Moulton had a an original idea that he wanted Raleigh to do and they said No. So he went out and built it himself and then Raleigh offered the R.S.W. 16 as a compettitor and then they got ahold of the Moulton and Raleigh made the knocked down version of the bike themselves. He was a consultant and then it stoped all together. Moulton made a new version of his bike again and that still is being produced.
The ordeal that Moulton went throught with Raleigh must have been trying.
Here we are wanting to see re-production parts made of Raleigh's stuff. It will be an uphill battle, I'm afraid.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Getting the giant to listen,re-pop parts, and a tangled mess posted by paul v on 11/25/2002 at 8:19:31 AM
norton was purely an example,the "backyarders were moulton club members and do not work for moulton.if one could find all of the jigs and moulds and bought them who has the rights then to make parts?of course go through the right channels but when they say no way what does one do then?

AGE / VALUE:   repo parts posted by: paul viner on 11/24/2002 at 9:31:52 AM
Just thought i would give my two cents worth on the whole repo parts jig.if you look at it from raleighs point of view you have to wonder how interestad they really are about vintage bikes and their supposed link with the past.these days companies are largely just trading busineses whos sole aim is to make money and nothing else.you only have to look at what has been done to sturmey archer over the last 15 years to get an idea about what im saying.just recently mapleislandsales.com in america retained the manufacturers licence for repo schwinn parts,so a good chat with these guys might be a start.lawyers only get interested when there is HUGE amounts of money involved,and i think the amount of parts being talked about does not constitute a threat.on a personal note whenever i can manufacture accessory type parts then i do so in the confines of my workshop.i have in my collection a couple of MOULTONS and have on the odd accasion had to buy parts from the u.k and they have always come from "backyard" manufacturers.we live in a very different world to say 30 or 40 years ago.i recently had discussions with a gent who has completely built from scratch a NORTON COMMANDO,parts that were easily obtainable he bought, but anything else he nocked up in his workshop.i personally think that people who make parts commercialy for restoration purposes are a god send to this hobby and should be encouraged to do so .if i come across parts that are many in number i normally buy the lot and then on sell them at no profit.most people who do the same thing usually pass on the same favour when they come across parts i need,for example a local bike shop who deal with contacted me last week and offered me a box of 4000 plastic valve caps(dunlop no less) for the measly price of zilch.so far i have given awy 3500.it just seems to work nicely.im not saying that people should work for nothing but from being genorous and encouraging its amazing how a business can gain a loyal following.i absolutely love my raleigh and whenever i can put N.O.S parts on her i do,because i know that come the day that my son or daughter wants a bike i will have something of beauty and substance to hand over.to me thats what bike collecting and restoring is all about.my wife often says that when she looks at me sitting on my little stool,lacing up a wheel covered from head to toe in dust and grease that somehow i just look happy and complete,or when im standing around talking with other collectors at fairs or bike shows she can never understand what language we talk but she knows its part of me and thousnds of others.i know i have digressed from the topic but its important to us all that we each help in the improvement of our great hobby. keeping the wheels turning, thats important. paul viner

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   repo parts posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/24/2002 at 9:53:59 PM
All though this doesn't deal dirctly with the topic, you said your wife makes neutral or even postive coments about your bikes? No nagging when you go to bike shows and parts trades/sales? You, sir, are a lucky man

AGE / VALUE:   more info on Hercules posted by: Jon Durnin on 11/24/2002 at 7:00:34 AM
Looking for more information on what I'm told is a 1950 Hercules Roadster.

I won this bike at a fundraiser and I would love to know more about it. Value of course, but mostly the history of the company and how many came to Canada.

It is a single-speed, step-through frame (serial no. WZ3278 stamped on top of seat tube) with rod brakes and slightly flaired fenders. Horizontal rear dropouts with chain tensioners on both sides. Original black paint with red pinstrips, 4" white strips on the fenders and City of Vancouver registration stickers up to 1961. Headtube and fender badging suggests it was manufactured in Birmingham, prior to the Raleigh and AMF mergers.

The rims and hubs have "made in England" stamped on them, but no dates or serial no. The rims seem to be of the Westwood design, rather than the square Raleigh design. Hubs and BB have oil ports and seem to be missing the caps. The brake pads push on the flat tops of the rims rather than on the sidewalls (I've never seen this before). Sprung leather seat with a small leather pouch behind, and Dunlop Roadster 26x1 3/4" aftermarket tires.

It rides very well, although the gearing may be too tall to handle serious hills. Much more comfortable around town than my dual susp. mtn. bike.

I have started into the info on www.sheldonbrown.com and have read many of the posts here, but if anyone could help out with something specific, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

AGE / VALUE:   Pic worth 1000 words posted by: sam on 11/23/2002 at 11:21:42 PM
Warren or others that would like to see the tyres I placed on the Robin Hood, take a look.http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=1056949

AGE / VALUE:   Reproduction Parts and Copyright protection posted by: Warren on 11/23/2002 at 8:39:34 PM
FWIW...I don't think you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting a release from Raleigh or any other company to let you reproduce their products. Intellectual property rights are HUGE these days and there isn't a lawyer on the planet who will let you do this. I've seen this happen with Campagnolo parts and BMW parts. If you ask them, they will say no. If you really need them exactly as they were produced, do it without asking.

Also, the parts you are making are really reproduction anyways...so why not design them to be identical in form, modify the logo into something that won't be confused by anyone and risk having one of these lawyers sue you. It ain't worth it.

My 2 cents.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reproduction Parts and Copyright protection posted by Fred on 11/25/2002 at 12:05:15 AM
Warren: Your comment about changing the logo slightly on a refabricated part reminded me of something that happened to me years ago. I was "restoring" a 1930 Model A Ford and needed 5 hubcaps since the originals were long gone. I found that J. C. Whitney, aka, Warshawski in Chicago had them at a good price. When they came I anxiously unpacked them and looked them over for flaws. Then I looked at the script that spelled out "Ford" in the classic style of that era which has been resurrected and is again in use. After a few minutes figuring it out, I discovered that the damm things read, "Bool". This incident is still brought up once in a while in our local car club and it always gets a good laugh about it. I'm laughing now as I type this. Then there was a friend who got a bargain on an expensive Longines watch that under further examination read "Longune", but thats another story.
"Be ye careful who make to deceive".

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reproduction Parts and Copyright protection posted by Warren on 11/25/2002 at 3:20:50 AM
A Model A Bool? No wonder it comes up for discussion at the club meetings...there's five of them in your face. :ˇ)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reproduction Parts and Copyright protection posted by Jeff R on 11/24/2002 at 12:17:46 AM
I also restore antique cars and have purchased reproduction parts with the manufacturers logo on it. Ford, MG, Packard,ect. The antique reproduction market is small and this activity appears to be overlooked by the manufacturers. If you were to bring it to their attention they would have to object to protect their rights to the logo. The quantities involved for our bicycles are so small I wouldn't say anything.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   need green rear fender posted by: Roy Schiff on 11/23/2002 at 6:24:36 PM
I found an old green humber in the trash and am getting it going. I need a rear fender. Please email me if you have one to give or sell. Thanks. Ride!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   need green rear fender posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/24/2002 at 8:25:54 PM
Posts like this are a good part why I tune in here. I like reading that these are being saved. Even if I live in a part where I never see these and so I have no real chances to rescue these bikes I love hearing that others are saving these and that they are finding them all the time.
Does yours have the double blade fork?
I wish I had the green mudguard but if you stay about here awhile you'll find one.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   need green rear fender posted by Chris on 11/24/2002 at 8:28:25 PM
Jealous? of course, but happy to hear the salvaging tales.
That mudguard is not that difficult.

The mudguards I have are not exaxct and would look wrong so I don't feel I can properly help you. Keep looking

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   About those white painted stripes... posted by: David Poston on 11/23/2002 at 8:53:42 AM
I've been wondering of late whether the white painted stripe on the rear mudguard--the hallmark of an English roadster (at least about post-1920s), is something which came straight from the factory, or whether it was done post-production. If so, by whom? I've noticed some mudguards, particularly NOS ones, don't have the white stripe.

Let me get this straight--they black enameled the whole mudguard, then somone hand or spray painted the white strip over the black enamel? Or did they go to the trouble of enameling in the white part, too? This white stripe thing is puzzling the dickens out of me. So they start with the frame, mudguards, and chainguard, right? Everything black enameled and baked in a big stove. Then they add any decals or pinstriping. But what about the bloody white stripe? Does anyone know? Seems this should be basic knowledge. I mean, without the white stripe, it wouldn't be an English roadster, would it?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   About those white painted stripes... posted by David on 11/23/2002 at 2:17:52 PM
I'm sure someone else will know the details, but the white panel on the mudguard was required by UK law (after the 30s?) for, I assume, visibility at night. It makes sense that the white would be painted last. I'd think that all the paint would have been applied (white, any pinstripes, etc) before heating.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   About those white painted stripes... posted by Jeff R on 11/23/2002 at 2:31:06 PM
I have had several early 50's Phillips made bikes without the white stripe. I curently have a 56 Reliance which is a phillips made bike that has the stripe. Raliegh must have started the trend.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   About those white painted stripes... posted by Pete on 11/23/2002 at 4:39:53 PM
The white patch law came in in 1935. At that time a whole range of "white patch" produces became available. There were
white bolt on discs,short bolt on fender sections. There was a fantastic Cheerhooter battery lamp that had a chrome sunburst (art Deco) cover with white panels that lit up red at night.
I have come across very early cycles where the white has been quite obviously painted on. I have got a NOS rear Raleigh fender with the white patch which was factory done.
The patches seem to dissapear after the war, I guess with the deregulation of white "black out" lines painted onto vehicles. The first patented reflector was the "Leaf" made
by Lea and Francis in 1907. They also made their famous Lea Francis cycle.which was meant to be one of the highest quality (and expensive) machines avaiable in the early part
of the last century

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   About those white painted stripes... posted by Peter on 11/27/2002 at 9:32:49 AM
Pete - I'd like to hear more about the white patch law and the 'bolt-on white painted discs'.
I bought an old Raleigh recently with one of these discs and this is the first time I have seen anyone refer to them or identify them. Have you any more info? I think my Raleigh is 1931.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roll Britania ? posted by: Jim on 11/22/2002 at 4:30:13 PM
I noticed this name a few posts back. I'm not familiar at all. Is it a website ?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roll Britania ? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 5:14:14 PM
It's a Yahoo Group:


AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by: Chris on 11/22/2002 at 1:30:15 AM
We were discussing making (or having made) rubber pedal blocks. I thought today why not make the rubber housing for the rear mudguard reflector? After that, you could pop in a reflector piece off of another worn out reflector. Or make the reflector too.
I don't know, these parts do pop up on e- bay. The pedals are a good idea and the grips are selling but we'll see if the reflectors will be done.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 2:27:40 AM
Sure Chris... the problem with this is simple: finding a manufacturer that, well, wants to manufacture! I have sent out two e-mails to major Indian suppliers with no reply to date. No one seems to want to WORK anymore! Let's see if Dial (UK) replies.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Pete on 11/22/2002 at 8:22:52 AM
Hello All If you are looking for grips. I have just ordered
some. They will be 5" and will be in black. They are a 1950s
pattern and very suitable for your roadsters. The best bit is ,that they are made in an original mould, by the original
company that made them in the 1930s/50s. They should be available in a month and will work out at $18 inc shipping

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Tim Powell on 11/22/2002 at 11:27:46 AM
If you are going to get reproduction parts made with the Raleigh trade mark on them then be carefull as you will infringe copyright. The Raleigh trade mark is still registered as well as many of the other makes. I know the Indians copy things with impunity but as they usually stay out in the Third World I doubt Raleigh pay much attention. If you start doing this in the UK or US then they might take issue with you. Incidently I make pedal rubbers out of square section Buffer Rubber. The sort that is used to protect walls and doors in factories. It is very hard and works well. When I have cut the hatched groove pattern and drilled them I bake them in an oven to smooth them out.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 2:15:31 PM
OK, Dial Patterns replied:


HI Peter,

Thankyou for your enquiry.The answer to your query is that we can produce both the items you want. We would need you to supply good originals to copy. A reasonable amount to produce initially would be 50 pairs.

Costs at this stage are difficult to estimate, but if you are able to send a sample of each we will be able to tell you.

I hope this is of some help to you.

Regards Alan Farrow.


So there you have it! 50 pairs would indicate we need to use the generic "RI" marked pedals. 50 pairs of the grey grips too. They would move pretty fast.

So suggestions as how to proceed... I have the sample grip but not the RI pedals.

Copyright. Hmmm. I don't see this an issue for a dead logo of a moribund (sadly) company for a run of 50 or so pedal blocks. But I don't want to spend the rest of my life with lawyers. If Raleigh make an issue, they can be shamed out of it by some nice letters in the Nottingham newspapers!!

So advice, comments please.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Ben on 11/22/2002 at 3:59:55 PM
I see this as like having new parts made for an antique car. I really do not believe Raleigh or any other company would fight an effort such as this. Now, if you intended to produce items that had a potentially large market impact it might be a different story. You might consider writing the current owner of the brand and request permission in writing.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 4:16:52 PM
Good idea Ben; I'll write a letter to Raleigh and ask the simple question. Mind you, Lloyds and Classic Transfers use "brand names" and logos all the time; do they get such "permissions"?

I'd like Dial to do this because we'd be offering a genuine British-made replica. Shipping is always an issue but we'll take this one step at a time.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Tim Powell on 11/22/2002 at 4:30:40 PM
Writing to them is a good idea. Your not dealing with the original Raleigh Company but a group or holding company (just look at whats happened to the company in recent years). I am sure I don't have to remind Americans how quickly lawyers can get involved for the slightest thing.
Having to deal with UK engineering companies every day I know how twitchy they can get regarding trademarks and brand names.

Just trying to think of your best interests.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 4:55:35 PM
No, Tim, your advice is very well taken indeed! The "deader" the company, the more lawyers hover about the corpse! Wouldn't it be a surprise, a wonder and a delight, if Raleigh wrote back and said they would remanufacture the pedal blocks and grips and get the remaining buildings in Lenton Blvd. humming again!

P.C. Kohler, not holding his breath

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Catfood Rob on 11/22/2002 at 7:41:42 PM
Ive contacted a buddy who has contacts at the factory, hold your breath a little longer....

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Chris on 11/24/2002 at 9:47:31 PM
Yes, it's in Restoration hardware! But the kicker is... It's in the freaking catalog and not assembled and in the window of the mall store where it belongs. It's not in the store at all is it? No display? Not good.
Why can't they sell the whole completed cycle and have the customer take it home or have it delevered locally somehow?

You gotta see this in person to appreciate a Pashley. I'll write a letter to Restoration Hardware as I really believe they are making a costly mistake. They could be selling more of these through their stores than they already are.
Still, it is a beginning and what other bicycles do you see sold through a neat store like this? I was excited to see it!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 8:09:59 PM
Contacts at the factory?!! Now you tell me!! I just know there's a big cellar filled with dust-covered cycle boxes. Could they pick out a 1949 Rudge Pathfinder, polychromatic blue, 4-speed alloy hub, dynohub and in a 23-inch frame. Alloy Dunlop rims too please.

Any other orders?

P.C. Kohler

   Real trademark holders do not let a legend die needlessly! posted by Chris on 11/22/2002 at 8:28:03 PM
I have no intention of infringing on anybodys copywrite and am no in the position to make any of the parts mentioned myself that bear any logo's. Not me. And if whomever did? I would want to see that a rightful % is sent along to the company. I would want to see the company prosper and I would not support undercutting that.
I was unhappy to read that "out of patent" clones were made in Graz, Austria by Puch. Unhappy to hear that the company did not profit from those hubs. And I am not even part of the company! I wish somebody would go thru proper channels and get it done. I wish the company or somebody authorized by the company would do it and put in an acceptable worthy effort.
A real fan of these is needed at the company or who or whatever has become of it. Somebody to run a project and turn out these parts and bring in profit for the company. Anything is better than nothing. To make these parts would not be a losing proposition. Sure, we have all the folks here who really care and we're building a library of information and keeping the flame alit. But the sadest thing is, that except for a nice page telling a short history of the company, this whole thing has been floating along rudderless at the company. It is a tragedy to see! I think of the little boy in the movie 'Time Bandits' when he critizes Randel who is holding the map that they 'borrowed' from God and they are deciding on going into the fortress of ultimate darkness. He says "I don't understand, you have a really great thing like that( the map but in this case the company's wonderful goods and history) and you are just wasting it.
The company is just wasting the whole history of these beloved bikes, wasting all the progress, wasting all the wonderful people who helped to build it. Wasting and letting rot everything that made the company into a strong, profitable, national treasure that Raleigh is and was. Oh, and Yes, Raleigh has slipped into the Fortress of Ultimate Darkness! Somebody from this group should be in Nottingham or given blessing and working at or with at some level of pay or no pay at all! As we do here. Working at a labor of love without pay. And be given blessing with a company official behind him watching but somebody should be in charge of where the interest or hobby or whatever this is. Somebody should be running the: Old school Raleigh's section from the company's office someplace. Out of somebodys basement, whatever. A web page not from a shop but from the company itself! Why this is not been the case I'll never understand that!
Prove it would pay and then make that volunteer a paid position with Raleigh.
I wish we could find somebody from the company and sit them down and breathe into them the life and love of this! Open their eyes! Something that should be, but no longer is a part of them. Were in the desert here, we are with competent, dedicated, smart people but none of them are active Raleigh employees! Just shop owners, mechanics, and good fans. There is money to be made here, an awful lot of it! In the proper intelligent hands, this would fly! Sure, go on with the future, adapt to a changed marketplace, go on with future plans. But please do not deny that the incredible interest in these is not dead by any means but very much alive and kicking and wanting despretly to grow further into something more profitable and good and admirable still.
Sure, the machines are mostly gone, the land sold. The Queen, when seeing the student apartment buildings where Raleigh was, should have been outraged at what happened to Raleigh! She should be asking "What happened to Raleigh? What can I do to help you?" Somebody should have been wispering into the ear of Thatcher and Blair and discussing British manufacturing! New medical breakthroughs will now flow from Nottingham and that's awesome but to lose Raleigh is to lose the soul of Britain! Still, a percent of what was can be re-assembled. At least for some small parts. Tour the country, get approval to see company records and examine the possibility to find out what went where and get it going again someplace and Yes, bring in funds and prove that this is a worthy buisness venture to pursue. If out of a little old building all over again? then yes!
They have let this sit to pass away but this is too alive and holding too much potential to allow to happen. The wonderful dynasty need not die. Raleigh's loyal soldiers( buying customers) US! are still in the field, still proud of and happy with the bikes of yesterday. A classic still loved and cherished. We carry the banner and desire to soldier on! The very fact that all of us here are writing in and following and working on this as best as we are able to do is testament that this is still alive.
Look, Listen! we have the bike out in the streets in use still! These are at restaurants and stores and in the apartment hallway and people ask all the time, they admire, they gather around and with smiling eyes they all mention "Nice bike!" More so interest in this than before. Raleigh has a legend by the tail! Other companies would kill to be regarded as Raleigh was and still is! Think of how the owners of Mercedes must feel to have and get to run Mercedes! Raleigh is no diffrent just bicycles and not cars. Still the same feeling and pride should be present!
More than any other thing to come from a flea market, nearly as much interest in these old school bikes as in the new bicycles from other compeating firms! Have they forgotten the vibrant soul that Raleigh has? This is a product like no other! A Raleigh bicycle! I never see an old one at a flea market. They get snapped up too quickly and I have to compete with all sorts of folks out there for a Raleigh bicycle and still, only a tiny bit of them are him hip enought to know that there are web sites like this one here. The folks hustling in front of me to buy it first want that old bike but when asked about Oldroads.com (and Sheldon too) they shake their heads! There is potential here too! It's on the upswing!
With all the plants in foreign lands isn't there one who can supply the real thing to us still?
I saw a link to an article about the Humber bicycle and they were telling that it still is a hit. Still a good seller!
Retro Humber still a hit. was the article.
Look, Put me, or P.C Kohler, or Sheldon or somebody behind that desk and in the shops and I promise you! they could sell a ton more Humber bikes than they already do. The waste of this is mind boggling. They have no idea how many people could and would be snapping up these bikes if it was advertised and held up and attention brought to it. They would say that they thought those were all gone and no longer made but they would be excitedly buying them up. Here we are, wanting to but them on e- bay and they are still being made today and sold just not here. That is sensless. It is a business, right, You make and sell product for profit right? A customer is a good thing and you don't close the door on more customers do you? No! Then why not advertise and sell new Humber bikes to us, to shops, to Restoration Hardware, or elsewhere.
Raleigh just about invented the commuter bike, Whomever holds the names to Rudge or Humber or B.S.A. is running things at 10% effeciency. I'm serrious here! The engines can roar again, not exactly like it was but still at strong surprisingly thunder. A lot more money could be made. The shrines we have here on these bikes could be fanned into a roaring, glorious flame that would provide profit and warmth for the company and it's authorized dealers. It's like, you shut the door to 1/2 the store and turn out the lights and tell customers that they can only buy some of the goods. Like it or not the past history and what is left of it is an important part of the future! In this case the old stuff is still popular and magical and it holds out money making opportunities like crazy! If we are peering through the window all nostalgic then why not open it up and sell the goods we want? What can be made in England should be made and offered. What is Raleigh, Humber, Rudge, or Phillips still if it is made should be offered and sold anyplace in the world. Throw the switches, open it up, let it roar again. Thousands of customers would ride Raleigh's, Humber's, Rudge's again! If you have a good thing and Raleigh does with these historic bikes, you let grow and work what you have, and you wisely invest the profits brought by it.
Supply those tires, parts, bikes, chaincases, handlebar grips, decals, cables, Surely the Raleigh people must know about all the bikes seen in catalogs and in films. The catalog and film people don't ever say "Oh, that's old and junk!" Do they ever refuse to shoot models and films with the Raleigh 3 speed in it? No! The bike lends character to it.
Make it work, rack up really deent sales numbers again. Have the money forwarded into the proper trademark holders accounts. Do it like it should be done. But for heavens sake, Just do it! We are not beating a dead horse here, but we have a strong healthy horse here that wants to gallop and ride and pull the plow. Just it has been wandering in the field dragging the reins because whomever is in charge of the horse won't for whatever reason (and I think it is definitly lack of interest at Raleigh) put it through it's paces. The traditional British bicycle can survive being moved to third world, survive the loss of it's home. The product is still the same, it's timeless and it will go on if allowed to.

Changing with the times? this 'thing' we call Progress? new and diffrent?
Raleigh should have said something like: In other business, that is true yes.
Not ours here! We here have something unique, special, tried and tested and marvelous here and we are keeping the traditional Raleigh bike alive as long as people gather around our customers bicycles.
Did they stop making Coca- Cola? Did people refuse to buy it? Did they put it out to pasture? Heck No!
Raleigh is the Coca- Cola of all bicycles! A trade name with power!

What other manufactured goods do people gather around and take time and effort to discuss with the owners?
There is a soul, an identity, an icon and if the bicycle has a symbol, than the black English bicycle has it's own distinct version.
People do not steal something worthless from your garage. They are leaving the mountain bikes and taking the old Raleighs!
They ask about the Raleigh and make conversation and the bicycle turns heads every time we ride it.
Demand and interest is the best thing a company could ask for! As good of a reputation as could be expected and accomplished! This company's past history of excellent bikes should be re- assembled and run at speed again as could be done smartly. There is not only life left, but a future still.
Foregive me for rambling or repeating myself.
So many employees, all those people laid off could be working a new and diffrent branch of the company. They could be working in the: Vintage cycles section.
A small amount of folks could be restoring vintage Raleigh cycles sent to Nottingham. Use an empty building, benches, materials, charge to restore! Who better?
Do you know how many people have made their start repairing and painting and restoring old bicycles and saving up money to have a shop one day and sell new bicycles? That's how my dad got started in this business and nothing goes to waste! I was told this and it is true!

I read a book called: Acres of Diamonds. In it, this Egyptian slave in the market place sold all the masters cakes every day, but each day he also took the leftover crumbs and instead of wasting this leftover material he managed to make just one extra cake every day.
He would sell it and little by little he saved up money and finally bought his freedom. When given the money and told the story the master was impressed how much had been saved up. Impressed at the inguinuity and desire to be free.
In Raleigh's case, the little bit of flour in the bottom of the pan has been totally wasted. No bits of dough were used, no money from the remnant formed. The bit of flour was considered "old inventory" and was thrown into the wind. These beloved classic bikes are the leftover flour in the pan, the folks admiring and turning heads and asking to buy the bike are the customers that bought the one cake from the slave. If made again it would still bring in money in the marketplace. In time, it could help buy back Raleigh's place in history.
We just have to get making cakes with what is left us in the pan, or in this case bicycles or the parts to them. No doubt, that customers loved the 'taste' of Raleigh's 'cakes!' They are still asking for them!
Where there is an interest and a demand, somebody will step forward and fill that demand. There is a demand, still.

    Raleigh's Lenton Blvd building posted by Chris on 11/22/2002 at 8:49:03 PM
The Lenton Blvd building was turned into individual shops selling goods and trinkets and I never heard ever that any one shop sold anything remotely related to Raleigh's bicycles, parts, posters, advertising shirts, mugs or anything. This should be the home of the Raleigh museaum.
Once again an oportunity was lost to Raleigh. One shop space at least could have been saved to offer goods from a company store. People see something diffrent in that building and they think the whole company is gone. That was not so, they moved from there years ago.

Lawyers could be put to better use working for the company on a regular basis drawing up export contracts with stores, than just a brief feeding off the remains of a great company.

   RE:Real trademark holders do not let a legend die needlessly! posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/22/2002 at 9:02:03 PM
Now, that ladies and gentlemen is an authentic diatribe!

(reminds me of the brilliant scene between Sir John Gielgud and James Mason in "The Shooting Party")

And I can't disagree with a word of it!!

Mind, I was trying to tell Raleigh this in 1986. They took such pity on my foolishness that they let me order parts direct from them. Otherwise, it was "we know best, now sod off".

P.C. Kohler, packed and ready to move into Lenton Blvd.

   RE:Real trademark holders do not let a legend die needlessly! posted by David on 11/23/2002 at 2:21:56 PM
Chris, there's a product called "Bag Balm" (for cows' udders) that will soothe your callused fingertips!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    rubber reflector housing? posted by Ben on 11/23/2002 at 2:41:42 PM
Has anyone here seen the Pashley roadster in the Restoration Hardware catalog? SOMEBODY thinks this is a good idea...

AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by: sam on 11/22/2002 at 12:59:31 AM
The Robin Hood came with new lookin tyres , one sports , one kenda.While ridding today I noticed I was bumping alone.At first I though it was the road,but turns out the tyre is not seated proper.So I return home to fix the problem.On inspection I find the Kinda tyre is a little too small for the rim.when installed it pulls one side in.not much but I don't like bumping alone.I installed the tornel(studded),too late in the day to ride but I did manage to take a small spin on the street in front of my house.The tornel seems to ride fine.Well tomorrow I'll see.---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by Warren on 11/22/2002 at 2:34:52 AM
Tell me more about this Tornel Studded tire Sam...I've been looking for a winter tire in an EA3 size. Where can I order these?



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by Warren on 11/22/2002 at 2:35:10 AM
Tell me more about this Tornel Studded tire Sam...I've been looking for a winter tire in an EA3 size. Where can I order these?



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by michael on 11/22/2002 at 3:56:13 AM
Sam, I won't become a champion of Kenda tyres (BTW, back in NZ we used Cheng Shin 26 x 1 3/8; they're better than Kendas but it doesn't sound like they're available in the States) I think your bumping problem can be easily solved. When you say "too small" do you mean in diameter? i.e. is the Tyre's wire bead a little small for the rim seat? If so, then you own a "tight" tyre, and it is no bad thing, though a tight tyre can be a swine to get on and off. To iron out the bumps, fit your tyre with the aid of a lot of soapy water, just like the kid does down at the local auto tyre shop. Slosh the soapy water round the rim, between the tyre bead and the rim wall BEFORE you inflate the tyre. As you inflate the tyre it'll slip into place. A really tight tyre will take some pressure before it seats properly, usually the low spot will pop up with an audible, nerve jangling *snap*. I've sometimes been a bit naughty and used WD40 instead of soapy water. NEVER do this, as oil rots rubber (for the same reason, use grease on your pump internals, not oil).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by David on 11/22/2002 at 4:30:15 AM
Isn't the Tornel tire knobby, like a mountain bike tire, but not studded with little metal spikes, like a studded car tire?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bumping alone posted by sam on 11/22/2002 at 2:37:23 PM
The tornel is not knobby as in a mountain bike tyre that has the tread that sticks out like bad hair on a punk kid,and the tornel is not studded like a winter auto car tyre is,with metal studds.The tornel studded tyre is studded like the old balloon bicycle tyres were.Kinda of a square block pattern tread.