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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   I meant wing nut and bolt posted by: Paul on 2/22/2002 at 2:28:51 AM
I meant I need the straight wingnut and bolt for the Raleigh Twenty folder seatpost. Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   Need Raleigh Twenty Folder part posted by: Paul on 2/22/2002 at 2:09:23 AM
Please help if possible. Does anyone have a Raleigh Twenty Folder that they can part out a small piece for me? I was hand tightening the wing nut that keeps the seat post from slipping down and the bolt broke off inside ther wing nut. Does anyone else have a Raleigh Twenty that can sell me the nut and original Raleigh wingnut for the downtube. Please.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Raleigh Twenty Folder part posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/22/2002 at 4:39:09 PM
And this is a special thread pitch that you won't find at the hardware store too!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need Raleigh Twenty Folder part posted by Peter on 2/22/2002 at 7:02:23 PM
I think I may have what you are looking for. Send me your email address and I will send you a photo and sizes.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Mark R. on 2/21/2002 at 6:48:41 PM
Hi. I am rebuilding a Raleigh DL-1 ladies bike and turning it into a Gents model with a frame I recently bought. I was concidering repainting the mudguards by lightly sanding the original black paint, and then laying down new black laquer on top of the original and therefor I hope to retain the title of "ORIGINAL". Has anyone ever done this, and how did it turn out? Also, where can you get the rims re-chromed? I was thinking of calling cyclart.
I'd appreciate some input.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Weigh it carefully    posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 8:25:52 PM
I feel that you are better off finding a D.L.1. on e- bay for like $275.00 or so.
Unless it is old, rare, or unique this is not worth it. Rechroming is not cheap and it won't match the other chrome bright work on the bike.English and U.S. chrome work looks diffrent. It will stand out unless you do every piece and then you are changing it. What you may wind up putting into this project you are better off taking a good run at a vintage Sunbeam cycle.
These pop up on e- bay.
Those are unique bikes, other British roadster bikes have merit too. The Raleigh is a wonderful bike but a wee bit plain and common for it's day.
Do you have a rear rack, a enclosed chaincase, bell, light set?
This is not an easy or inexpensive project.
While on the subject of Cyclart, they offer a decent variety of parts and whole bicycles. A tasty assortment of rare goodies. Take a good look at their current list.

   Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Stacey on 2/21/2002 at 9:47:44 PM
Mark? Help me to understand how exchanging the step thru frame with a standard frame and repainting the fenders is keeping the bike original? I was under the impression that "original" was just that... As it was produced, retaining all of the wear and patina that a piece of that vintage would carry. Something fuzzy with your perameters I think. I know that I'd be pissed to buy an "Original" that has gone thru that work.

   RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Mark R. on 2/21/2002 at 10:32:35 PM
I think that is a good point. Perhaps I will simply polish the paint a tad and be happy with the result. I didn't mean to do so to misrepresent the bike in the future, but if it did get sold one day someone might get the wrong idea, and think they were getting the "original".
Still, I believe if you rebuild a bike or car with original parts, then in almost every way you have an "original" item, that is to say all the parts might really have come with the bike anyway so it's not too much of a stretch. But, I will put some more thought into this before I do anything.

   RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Mark R. on 2/21/2002 at 10:33:52 PM
I'm having problems anyway:-(

   RE:RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Mark R. on 2/22/2002 at 1:05:34 PM
OK, I've made my desision. I'm am going to build the bike as a gents model. I was going to sell the ladies frame, but instead I am going to hold on to it, and later if I sell anything, I will rebuild the ladies bike with it's original parts, and sell that. I simply don't want to ride a ladies bike for now, and since I have all the parts, I figger what the heck. I will not try to fool someone in the future.

   RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Stacey on 2/23/2002 at 10:23:37 AM
No, not original... Restored. Anything else would be like being "A Little Bit Pregnant", either it is or it isn't, there's no grey area.

Sorry to hear you're having problems. I understand, one of my pet rats died yesterday. Really took the shine off my apple.

Now that's a great idea Marko! Almost like having your cake and eating it too! Build your bike, ride it, enjoy it... and watch yer nuts on the top tube! LOL Let's see a pic when your done.

In the wind,

   RE:RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Mark R. on 2/23/2002 at 1:05:26 PM
I'll do that. I had truble with a cotter pin, you probably know the whole story, I'm sure you've been there. First pin eases right out, second pin was tighter than if some berzerk psycho welder brazed the damned thing in. Had to drill.
Then the bottom bracket is not tapped straight, and the crank draged on the cup when you put it on.The paint looks blaaaghh, etc...etc....I kinda wish I hadn't started :-(

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Warren on 2/23/2002 at 4:49:04 PM
I also believe that the rod brake linkages may be different lengths on the mens and womens bikes...leading to almost insurmountable grief. You could buy pieces here on VVVintage but then you are spending inordinate sums of money again on an average value roadster. They are desireable but not real valuable unless they are early, complete and pristine with accessories. If your BB is in crooked it is likely someone crossthreaded the wrong cup...this could be a real mess if you can't find someone with the correct 26tpi tap for it. I'd say cut your losses...reassemble whatever complete bike you can muster and ride it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Isn't this a contradiction of terms... posted by Mark R. on 2/23/2002 at 6:14:36 PM
Fortunately, the head tubes were the same size, and all rod brake linkages are the same lengths. I believe I will wind up with a completely normal gents bike, but unfortunately a little on the rough(looking) side.

AGE / VALUE:   Handle Bar Grips posted by: Tim Powell on 2/21/2002 at 5:19:25 PM
Saw these and thought they might be of interest. Someone here was looking, cant remember who. http://www.dialpatterns.co.uk/grippics1.html

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Handle Bar Grips posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/22/2002 at 3:21:08 PM
Hey Tim! Thanks! I never would have found the site and lookie that! They ARE making old bicycle handlebar grips. Now if these good fellows would just start making Raleigh, Rudge, Humber, Phillips, and the Shockstop grips. I hope they get some more old grips and knock 'em out and sell them.
Perhaps they are a good source if you have a B.S.A.Paratrooper folding bicycle that needs a handlebar grip.Keep a note of this place don't forget about them.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Claud Butler posted by: Chris Nason on 2/20/2002 at 10:56:28 PM
I have been using for 10 years an old Claud Butler light weight racer. It has the frame number 115x on a light green frame. The frame ends are chromed and it has a transfer at the top of the seat post saying "Bonderised". The other transfers are written in script and appear to be the same as I have seen on a 1937 classic. Anybody know what I have?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Twenty posted by: Clyde on 2/20/2002 at 10:58:45 AM
LBS has Raleigh Twenty (non-folding) with 500A wheels. Dynohub dated '69; SC hub dated '70. Recently, owner showed me this one and other interesting bikes in his storage shed. Anyone seen this size wheel on a Twenty (which I would expect to have 20" wheels)? How about a source for replacement tires? One currently has 3 boots. Sheldon lists this size in his tire charts as a 440 mm for "European juvenile, folding" applications, but doesn't list it in his inventory. Cheers.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Twenty posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 12:26:33 AM
What do they ask for it? Currious

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Twenty posted by Clyde on 2/21/2002 at 1:04:50 AM
NFS. Shop owner intends to keep it as his knock-around and ride-to-Mardi-Gras-parade bike.

AGE / VALUE:   28"tires posted by: sam on 2/20/2002 at 3:09:06 AM
Got a few pairs of 28" (English roadester)tires for sale.$30 plus shipping.got them in solid red.Got a pair of black 4 ply and got a pair of "mud grip tires"too ---sam

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by: Jamison Zich on 2/19/2002 at 11:12:07 PM
I am the proud owner of a 60's something "Hopper Sport" but don't know how to determine the date of manufacture which is key to ordering parts should they exist.Can you shed any light on the subject or the make in general. I can provide more info from markings on the frame. Please let me know what you find as I would like to restore it. Thanks very much.
Jamison Zich

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by Sheldon Brown on 2/20/2002 at 4:12:41 AM
Hopper was an alternate brand with Elswick. I have some Elswick info on my Website, see:


Sheldon Brown

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by Ian on 2/20/2002 at 8:17:30 AM
I understood that Elswick and Hopper were two different makes which eventually combined and made Elswick Hopper bikes. I have definitely seen bikes with both names separately and with the combined name. I do have some Hopper catalogues but I think they are much earlier than 60's. Will go to the garage and look them out and post again if they shed any light. Regards, Ian.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by Jamison on 2/20/2002 at 3:45:21 PM
After taking a harder look and wipeing away years of accumulated grease I discovered that this Hopper is a 1960 model, that is if the Sturmey-Archer hub with the "60" stamped in it is the original. I am relatively certain that it is as everything else on the bike appears to be original.
It has 26 x 1 3/8 british EA 3 rims, 3 speed shifter on the bars, Sturmey-Archer Headlamp and tail light, DynoHub front, and a cargo rack that looks as if it has been on the bike forever. I will be looking for tyres to go with this as well as bar grips and cableing for brakes and shifting. The "Wright" saddle is in fair condition but the leather is dried out.
The paint job is also fair but someone decided it needed reflective tape on the rear fender. What is the best way to clean up a paint job without hurting the finish or decals?
This looks like a really fun project and any assistance from the field would be greatly appreciated. Also, nowhere on the frame does it say anything about "Elswick" just F.Hopper & Co LTD, Barton on Humber, England. The down tube is emblazoned with "HOPPER SPORT" and the crank set has Hopper in the casting as well.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by Peter on 2/20/2002 at 9:07:00 PM
You will find a lot of information about the history of Elswick Hopper on the Falcoln Cycles site at http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/news.php?c.id=1&s.id=1

Peter (just down the road from Barton-on-Humber)

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 12:22:25 AM
With all the hopping around I have done, I never hopped upon a Hopper.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 12:25:33 AM
There was an article about a young man's experiences working at Elswick Hopper. The article was called Ellswick Hopper Cycle Works. Very interesting. I don't know if it is the same as the above article. Look in past posts here at oldroads.com about Hopper or Elswick Hopper.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by Peter on 2/21/2002 at 6:58:08 AM
That article, about Tom Barker working at Elswick, is at http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7745/tom/ELSWICK.html

Don't forget to read part 2 as well.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 7:45:29 PM
What happened to the lovely mystery lady? This is why you shouldn't be shy!
I wonder if he can still box line a cycle frame? Great story!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Year unknown posted by :-) on 2/23/2002 at 7:16:15 PM
Well that explains it!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by: Tom on 2/19/2002 at 7:12:01 PM
I just got an old dyno hub. I was told it was a Sturmey Archer. The only name on it is DYNO 3 THREE and 50 3 on it just like a SA. No Sturmey name. Also a few patent numbers. Is it a Sturmey Archer one of the early rears? When did SA make the first rear dyno? I know they started the front in the 1930's. Also on the armature it is missing a cover. The armature side looks like a gear in it. Also missing 2 little screws and nuts for the armature. Does anyone have any parts for these. This one is a 40 hole and I would like to complete it. Also I have been warned that I should not take it apart. Do I dare try to take it apart, it feels like dirt in it. I can get pictures if someone can help out.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by Bill Putnam on 2/20/2002 at 6:34:15 PM
Hi Tom,

Your hub sounds like a Sturmey product. I don't know of a
source for replacement parts other than buying other used
hubs-ebay is a good source for Dynohubs. The armature and
magnet assembly is the same for front and rear so you can
use parts from a front hub if you can find it. The covers for the magnet and armature are important to keep dirt out. The magnet
is a round 20 pole unit, which looks like a bunch of U shapes all put together. VVVintage has a new Dynohub
armature at http://oldroads.com/nos_misc.asp if yours
is bad. The nominal resistance of the windings should
be 6 ohms.

I would recommend dissassembling the hub, cleaning, and
inspecting it. Many parts of the 3 speed dynohub are
the same as the common Sturmey AW three speed hub, and
parts like the clutch and pinion pins are commonly worn
and in need of replacement. If you cannot get these locally,
Harris cyclery has them at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey.html

A service manual is available on line at

The main concern with dissassembly is to keep the stator
inside the magnet, if this is removed from the magnet
without an iron keeper ring the magnet will be demagnetized.
There is a shop in California that will remagnetize your
magnet if this has happened, contact info is:

Eric Hjertberg
763 College Avenue
Menlo Park, CA 94025

Eric wrote me the following message:

>Jobst built two and they both work well. I have remagnetized hundreds of
>hubs. I charge $30 plus postage if you send me just the magnet and a keeper
>(can be its own armature). We had many happy years of trimming and drilling
>the axle of a front dyno, spacing out to 100mm, hanging a lamp bracket off
>the axle, and lacing it to a lightweight rim. That way our racing bikes
>could do winter commuting. It kept us busy back in the '70's.

There has been a fair amount of discussion on Dynohubs
recently on rec.bicycles.tech see


for the discussion.

Another peculiarity of the Dynohubs is that they are
nominally 6 volt 1.8 Watt units rather than the standard
generator 6 volt 3 Watt units. Because of this they
require a special bulb (and are not as bright as a
standard sidewall generator) Reflectalite sells a
modern halogen bulb model GH 107 which works especially
well with these hubs: http://www.reflectalite.com/buyingbulbs.html

Good luck with your hub,

Bill Putnam

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 8:05:51 PM
This and the Four speed version the F.G. are great hubs. They sell very nicely, just don't drop it on your foot! Links to Service diagrams and color scans of these are at http://www.SheldonBrown.com
People like me, that take them out of the bike's rear wheel because we think they are too heavy are few and far between. Most have the good sense to leave it in the bike as it was intended.
One seller scolded me good for "Interrupting the continuity of the origonality" He threatened to never sell me an "origonal unmolested vintage Raleigh cycle" again!
He told me it was too nice for me to go switching wheels in it. He was right of course! You are an accomplished Brit bike junkie when overhaulung this beast is easy for you and fun to do.
Buy up an armature winding piece they sell here at Oldroads.com! QUICK, before it's too late! I never see these anyplace until now! Do not overtighten the terminal nuts, especially on the older and way cool Bakelite models. These can snap off, the bakelite ones especially, be real gentle in tightening those nuts. If not, then youre up the creek without the lights.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 8:10:54 PM
Take a pencil eraser to the brass wiring end hook pieces that slide under the carefully tightened nuts.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by Brian Hayes on 2/21/2002 at 11:42:52 PM
The AG, or "Dyno Three", was first introduced in 1946 according to Tony Hadland's "The Sturmey Archer Story". This book is fascinating and probably the definitive history of SA. My wife ordered this book as a Christmas present a couple of years ago and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. More info, including high resolution pdf files from the 1956 master catalogue can be found at: www.hadland.net.
The feeling of dirt in it is probably the normal feel from the magnet. The first time I turned one of these, I thought the bearings were shot, but everything was normal!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rear Dyno 3 Hub posted by Tom on 2/22/2002 at 12:45:41 AM
I did end up taking it apart. The 2 wires were pulled out of the hub and cannot be fixed, the outside plate is missing and it was full of dirt. The axle nuts, terminal nuts and all hardware is missing. The sprocket is there. I did find another armature and if it is not working I will find another.I don't have a bike for it yet. I will keep looking. I will keep it because it is one of the early dyno's. It will go great with my collection of pre-50's Sturmey drum hubs. I use Sheldon's site for reference a lot. Is there anyone who makes brake cables for Sturmey Archer drum brakes? Thanks for the responses.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Don't miss this one! posted by: Mark on 2/19/2002 at 4:06:41 PM
It would make sense to me that people should start a bike at $1.00 and just let the buyer do the rest, IT'S AN AUCTION my friend....ebay #1075047017. Seller claims not to be an expert on bikes, and he knows what he's talking about as far as that goes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Don't miss this one! posted by Warren on 2/19/2002 at 10:45:39 PM
Hi Mark (and others). Post the whole url into your messages when you post an ebay item. It's just a cut and paste away and it makes finding your item two steps closer for the readers...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Don't miss this one! posted by Warren (the cynic) on 2/20/2002 at 2:29:00 AM
I'll get you three of them for $300 if you give me a few months. The guy is fishing for a sucker...like "Wow I'm in awe of this bike" and "I'm transported back in time". This guy likely did bad drugs back in '77 and he's having flashbacks.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Don't miss this one! posted by DBean on 2/20/2002 at 12:48:30 PM
His 'n' hers you'll notice. These would be good commuters at the right price; dynohub & lights. I thought I might make a reasonable offer after the auctions end. Either he wants to be rid of these bikes or he wants to keep 'em!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Think 531 not 20/30. International and other top models before this. posted by Christopher on 2/21/2002 at 1:40:49 AM
Well, (1) Pedals are not origonal to the bike, some off brand replacement type, (2)ladies frame (that's bad as mens frames are worth more) (sorry ladies)(3) no bell, (4)no rear rack,(5) no coffee colored metal Raleigh origonal front fender either. However, these may not have always been sold automatically with every one of these models
(6)Origonal gumwall tires are cracked and possible slightly mutated. If it were a 26 inch wheel Sports or Supurbe model it would be worth it more in my view. This is the 20/30 carbon steel model bike and so, not something to get too excited over, no calling up freinds and exclaiming "It's a 531 bike with a Carlton fork!" because this one is not that kind. For 27 inch bikes look for a Raleigh International or other more worthy models.These Sprite model bikes do have a loyal following, many people rode these, others will tell you theirs is not for sale, They ARE getting harder to find. Look and you'll see these at yard sales for 70. each
Origonal steel rims too, not alloy. The dynohub in the 27 inch wheel is a plus. Still,300? Eh.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Don't miss this one! posted by Warren on 2/21/2002 at 4:08:20 AM
Sorry I missed the pair thing...still, I really don't have any love for 10 speed roadsters, if there is such an animal.

MISC:   SA Oil in a can... posted by: Warren on 2/19/2002 at 1:20:48 AM
Just in case you're in one of those old shops that Christopher rummages around in, look for a bright yellow can about 3 inches tall. I just picked up an NOS can of Sturmey oil...227 cc's for $2.50 in just such a shop. And I quote from the side of the can...

"Before using a new hub or one that has been stored for some time, inject a few drops of oil and repeat every 200 miles of running.
Grease or thick oils must not be used as they will clog and impede the action of the hub."

I think I've got enough oil in this can to do all the three speeds I can possible restore for the rest of my days...very cool. One last note...he had 4 cans of the stuff. I asked to buy a few of them and he asked me why...actually he growled at me. He told me that he's constantly being approached by guys that want into his basement to "clean it out" and he wants no part of it. I backed off and said okey-dokey. Boy would I EVER like to get in that basement now!

   RE:MISC:  Ohh, those oil cans!! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/21/2002 at 1:08:54 AM
No doubt, there are times when one really needs "The A- Team"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HYBRID GEARING 2 posted by: Robert on 2/18/2002 at 3:47:24 PM
Once I get the hybrid gearing (AW 3 speed w/ 2 sprockets)
squared away on one bike, I want to do same on my Dunelt.

It is a 64' that I am trying to keep "looking correct" for the time period. That being said, what would a good period correct "looking" derailleur for it. Also what type of shifter for derailleur? I not trying for a collector / restoration , just want it to look late 60's.

Thanks for your help.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HYBRID GEARING 2 posted by Peter on 2/18/2002 at 11:04:06 PM
Cyclo Benelux Mk7 were still in use then, they are English like the bike, and easy to set up. Finding a shifter may be a problem, but most friction shifters will work.

AGE / VALUE:   made him get them down..... posted by: sam on 2/17/2002 at 4:08:43 AM
from the top shelf,they were dusty,But a set of white wall 28s can be washed.Behind them was one,only one, studded 28.So I buy all three.First time I see a set of rear stays,had 2 sets of rod brake handelbars.All were dusty. had a good time---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   made him get them down..... posted by Mark on 2/18/2002 at 3:02:51 PM
Sounds like one of Christopherrobin2's stories!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   made him get them down..... posted by Ben on 2/20/2002 at 1:29:27 PM
Yes, Chris's stream of conciousness style is infectious!

AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by: Kevin K on 2/16/2002 at 7:40:40 PM
Hi. Can someone please enlighten me as to the relevence of the lion's importance on the headbadge. Royality? Just wondering. Thank you, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by Stacey on 2/18/2002 at 6:03:25 PM
Ummm... they look pretty and are more appealing than a water buffalo?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by Kevin K on 2/18/2002 at 9:36:37 PM
NOW THAT'S MEAN !!!!!!!!!! I'd just sat down with a bowl of chips and a drink. Just as I was about to take a drink I read your comment to my post. Do you realize how hard it is to clean chips and Coke out of a keyboard ? Do you Stacey ? Do you ? Do you care! That was great ! Excellent return. I've alerted the writers of the Tonight Show. Jay Leno is back from his drive at Daytona yesterday. Be sure at wait by the phone for his call. Really ! Anyway, I enjoyed the laugh. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by Stacey on 2/18/2002 at 11:36:46 PM
I'm sorry Kevin, I wasn't trying to be mean. Just an innocent suggestion :-j

What is intriguing me is the question that comes to mind... Did said Coke & chips pass upwards through your sinuses then onwards to the offended keyboard or were the expelled directly out your mouth? And...

Excuse me the phone is ringing.

It was Jay's people... God! Do you know how much those guy's pay?!?!?!

As I was saying... Do you have a photo to share?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by Kevin K on 2/18/2002 at 11:49:29 PM
No Photos. Sorry ! And well no. No sinus activity resulted as a result as of my laughter. However, I've learn again so late in life that one was always stand guard even when amongst friends. So you are one up on me. I will now forever guard myself when hitting oldroads in my favorites. I'll bet you are a real card. So, are ya gonna tell me what the lion means or not. Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by Stacey on 2/19/2002 at 1:28:28 AM
No, 'coz I haven't a clue. Sorry, just being a wiesnheimer. It's my nature, I can't help it. Personally, I'm quite enamoured with the Raleigh Heron. By far the prettiest logo around, IMHO.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   PHILLIPS BIKES posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 2/22/2002 at 1:58:48 AM
Who could we ask who would know? The Phillips lion is a male, seated and looking at you. Raleigh had a poster with a African man being chased by a lion. Later he just wanted to steal the bike as the man was sleeping. The lion wheels away the bike with a grin.
Raleigh and Phillips were rivals in Africa and around the world. Perhaps this has some meaning. Why a lion? Good question!

FOR SALE:   misc bike parts posted by: Bruce on 2/16/2002 at 1:18:22 AM
ebay # 1805526420 i put all my excess bike stuff in one listing, B66 Brooks saddle-rough shape, 1/2 can of Proofide saddle dressing, made in W Germany "4 leaf clover" bell, new Park tool, "Midland" brand rack made in England (black), a small leather tool bag & a larger light brown vinyl tool bag, black padded seat cover, haven't had luck posting picture on ebay, email and I will send photo.