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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   my crazy bike posted by: barbra on 5/2/2002 at 12:58:23 AM
i once took a free spirit mens bike 10 speed and bent the front fork and rear part to fit a set of one speed schwinn typhoon wheels on it. but now they are rubbing up against the frame so i want to make a three speed or restore my bike to be all original. i saw another free spirit at the appleton wisconsin fox river antique mall for 69.99. should i restore my own collectable or buy a new one. ps it has a little rust and flat tires at the shop.

MISC:   dutch roadsters posted by: Pravin on 5/1/2002 at 10:06:31 PM
I think some of you may find these links interesting, (English roadsters made for the Dutch market):

http://www.raleighbicycles.nl/wembley.html (Surprisingly, this bike uses a Shimano 7-speed hub)


   RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by Warren on 5/1/2002 at 10:43:52 PM
The Raleigh is beautiful...I'l bet it comes in at several hundred dollars after the exchange from the Guilder...or is it Euro? Makes you value the inexpensive older bikes. It's no surprise about the Shimano hubs...Sturmey Archer hubs are very expensive, although they may be coming down in price now that they are owned by Sun Race, another company based in the Pacific rim. I'm thinking of building up an NOS CCM roadster frame/fork from the 50's with a modern multispeed hubset. I've got all the other parts including new Dunlop Westrick rims...the new roller brakes in these hubs should be good stoppers.

Any opinions on the Nexus versus SA 7 speed hubs would be appreciated.

   RE:RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by Warren on 5/1/2002 at 10:45:42 PM
Westwood rims I mean...28 x 1 3/4"

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by ChrisH on 5/2/2002 at 12:39:13 AM
The part I haven't figured is how to make room for a 7-speed internal hub on an old frame. Both Sram (Sachs) and Shimano internal hubs spread 135mm. My old Raleigh's rear dropout appears to be 111mm. If anyone has a good method for bending chainstays, do tell.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by Chris on 5/2/2002 at 3:15:04 PM
Watch Shimano and see if in the future they make the Nexus with 120mm spacing.I think they will, if not already.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by Stacey on 5/2/2002 at 4:23:00 PM
Quite simple aplication of mechanical force to the chainstay will spread (or shrink) to provide the necessary spacing you require. See the article at Shelcon's site for details. I've done this often with excellent results.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters and 7 speed hubs posted by Warren on 5/3/2002 at 12:30:22 AM
Go to http://www.sturmey-archer.com/layout1.htm and you can download a pdf of the their SA hubs. The SBR (cassette) comes in 116, 126 and 136 widths...I haven't seen an internal hub with multiple widths. Nice looking hubs...retro and modern.

   RE:MISC:   dutch roadsters posted by David on 5/3/2002 at 10:45:12 AM
The importer, Charlie Persons, has most of them available quite reasonably at www.permaco.com. Also SA parts, Brooks saddles, & lots of other stuff.

AGE / VALUE:    Away from the group for a spell posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/30/2002 at 2:48:56 PM
I'm dropping back and letting the gang here go on without me for awhile.
If you think I can answer your question, feel free to e- mail me.
I have some projects I need to spend more time on.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    Away from the group for a spell posted by Cal on 4/30/2002 at 4:15:58 PM
Say it ain't so, Christopher!
I look forward to your posts every day, they are interesting, informative and thought provoking!

What projects could be so important as to take you away from us all?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    Away from the group for a spell posted by sam on 5/2/2002 at 1:44:15 AM
Christopher's unuausal way reminding us spring is here,get out of the den and into the shop!Very timely and right on the mark!I primed the 4 frames I'm working on after reading this this morrining.Thinks Chris.

MISC:   How much oil in a sturmey archer posted by: geo on 4/30/2002 at 3:13:22 AM
I recently picked up an old Robin Hood. It's in tough shape and I think that the rear hub is dry. Does anyone know how much oil one should put in one of these and what type of oil should I use. I couldn't find the dipstick. Thanks in advance, Geo

   RE:MISC:   How much oil in a sturmey archer posted by sam on 5/1/2002 at 2:16:23 PM
Use sewing machine oil.(not w-d 40 or 3-in-one) get it at a sewing machine dealer like Singer.Use 2 or 3 drops.The oil is to keep the grease from drying out not to fill the hub.

   RE:MISC:   How much oil in a sturmey archer posted by Dale on 5/3/2002 at 5:09:51 PM
If it's really dry, it ought to be disassembled and the bearings cleaned/regreased, then about ten drops of oil. After that, SA sez "three drops a month".

   RE:RE:MISC:   How much oil in a sturmey archer posted by ChrisH on 5/4/2002 at 5:38:11 AM
From the Raleigh Cycle Maintenance Handbook,

Sturmey-Archer Hubs

Before using a new hub, or one that has been stored away for some time, inject one teaspoonful of our Oil and add from quarter to half of this quantity once every fortnightly afterwards.

and under Where to Lubricate,

To ensure sweet running and long life of wearing parts lubricate once a fortnight if used daily, or every 250 miles.

Here's to sweet running between fortnights,

AGE / VALUE:   I'm cotterless now! posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/30/2002 at 12:22:10 AM
I Pulled the junky mountain bike apart and went around trying every bike to see if the cotterless bottombracket spindle would work in one of my Raleigh's. It did! It fit my (rider) 531 framed Raleigh Lenton Sports. I guess it will fit the Raleigh Sports or Raleigh Supurbe too. As this is the same bike essentially. This way I am free of the steel crank and cotter pins. I can use a double and maybe even a triple too. The bike will weigh less.

This mountain bike used very similar bottombracket cups arrangement. Only it was 24 and not 26. I re- used the Raleigh cups. It spins fine. The rest of the bike was promptly given away. The spindle was numbered and I guess I will give these numbers and the coresponding Raleigh cottered spindle number here tomorow. Problem is when you explain it to the shop folks they are gonna tell you to bring it in and try it. They'll ask for measurements and all that. Unless they let you root thru the drawer of parts for yourself and that is rare when they do that. It's worth a try anyways. I haven't seen folks here asking about how to go alloy, cotterless, with their Sports but I thought I would pass it along.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm cotterless now! posted by sam on 4/30/2002 at 12:07:23 PM
Chris I spotted an unusual bike at the flemarket sunday.it was a raleigh from South Aferica,a mountain bike with removeable rear stays and rear facing drop outs on a camble back frame

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm cotterless now! posted by Chris on 4/30/2002 at 2:22:29 PM

AGE / VALUE:   Hercules/Viscount posted by: Glenn Schwartz on 4/29/2002 at 10:46:18 PM
I have a Viscount bicycle made by Hercules Cycle and Motor Co. of England, serial 6162XS. What have I got?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules/Viscount posted by Ed on 5/1/2002 at 2:07:13 PM
Probably a dumb question,but thats never stopped me before.I associate Viscount with Lambert.Did Hercules ever make a model labeled Viscount?
Thanks and good luck with the bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules/Viscount posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/30/2002 at 12:40:29 AM
One would have to have a picture of your bike and have a lot of Hercules catalogs on hand to tell you. I have some info on Hercules and it would be a start. Please describe this bike, What size wheels, describe color, what kind of rear hub? Is it a derailer model or a 3 speed.
Because of the Hercules 3 speed hub we don't know a year of manufacture. The Serial number does us no good, the info to decipher it is lost or hidden. The Raleigh serial number chart was basically( with a few exceptions) located and posted but Hercules is not in that. Stay tuned!

MISC:   hike bike run posted by: rickey@knowlesbicycle334-756-7561 on 4/29/2002 at 3:50:39 PM

FOR SALE:   70s VINTAGE RALEIGH VERY CLEAN posted by: Ray on 4/29/2002 at 11:06:05 AM
Check it out. Just posted it and it's a beauty.

MISC:   Gummi gears posted by: David on 4/29/2002 at 2:00:01 AM
I took apart an old AW hub that resisted all attempts to pull on the indicator chain. The insides were all sticky with thick syrupy greasy gook. Is this probably the result of someone lubricating it with vegetable-based oil?

   RE:MISC:   Gummi gears posted by VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 4/29/2002 at 12:49:51 PM
Could be.
Soak the parts in WD-40. It will disolve the gum.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FC, FW, FC Hubs posted by: Tom on 4/28/2002 at 5:41:18 AM
What is the internal difference in the FW,FM, and FC. Sturmey hubs. Does anyone have an exploded view of these hubs. What are the internal part numbers for them.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FC, FW, FC Hubs posted by David on 4/28/2002 at 3:11:24 PM
From SA Service Manual (50s):

High, normal, and low gears are obtained in exactly the same way as described for the AW hub, except that the primary sun pinion is rotated by a secondary gear train to reduce the variation between the gears. The secondary gear train consists of a fixed secondary sun pinion, gear teeth cut into the LH ball cup and planet pinions attached to a planet cage which rotates the primary sun pinion through medium of the low gear dog.

In bottom gear the primary sun pinion is disengaged by low gear dog from secondary gear train, and fixed to the axle by dogs, and the gear train is then exactly the same as the FW bottom gear, the secondary gear train being disconnected.

THis hub differs from the FM in that the primary sun pinion has 20T instead of 30T, and a different type of primary planet cage is fitted, using four 20T pinions instead of three 14T pinions. This gives closer ratios, but in every other respect the hub is similar to the FM.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FC, FW, FC Hubs posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/28/2002 at 8:51:58 PM
E- mail me a postal address and I'll get it out to you free.
Exploded views of these hubs on the web? Not yet, I don't think so. These are diffrent ratios and built diffrently.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FC, FW, FC Hubs posted by Edward in Vancouver on 4/29/2002 at 12:23:49 AM
Check out Tony Hadland's site, he's got the whole 1956 S.A. manual, free! I've downloaded the FG and FW exploded views and their dismantle/assemble instructions, but I'm not sure if there's a file for the FC hub.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FC, FW, FC Hubs posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/29/2002 at 1:47:44 PM
I have the F.C. and the A.S.C. hub too. Let me know if I can help.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RALEIGH FENDERS NOS posted by: Tom on 4/28/2002 at 2:41:09 AM
Nice lot of NOS fenders on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1097914955

AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 posted by: Drew on 4/27/2002 at 11:16:02 PM
The mate to the Dl-1 discused in post below, also on ebay looks in even better condition. Who made those nice white-wall tires? Did many Tourist's come with them. I think they make these bikes look great. The closed chain case seems out of place on a circa 1970-3 bike?

AGE / VALUE:   Just don't break the vise posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/27/2002 at 9:00:42 PM
I recommend using the Park Cotter pin removal press when removing or installing crank cotter pins. But,

I have been holding the bike over or alongside a vise to remove cotter pins. It is fixed on the bench, I have more leverage, and can really apply all this wonderful pressure to drive those nasty old wedge pins out.
I keep squeezing and suddenly it "pops". Then I punch it out, all done.
Only this time I cranked away with the vise leaver and busted the vise! K- Pow! The corner of it came off!
It was a cheap garage sale vise anyways! They have better vise's and shims that go in it. It is wonderful not to be driven nuts by these cotter pins. At last I can get into the bottombracket!

Now the real challange these days is finding and keeping enough new cotter pins on hand. English and Italian are two diffrent sizes.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Just don't break the vise posted by Jim on 4/28/2002 at 7:12:58 PM
Let me know what size cotters pin you need. I have quite a few in various sizes on hand. I believe English are 9mm.

AGE / VALUE:   Spotters guide posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/27/2002 at 6:34:14 PM
Improving the spotters guide:

A list of tire suppliers like Sheldon Brown, other shops and web places. Ther offer hard to find parts here, were lucky too.
The whole range of where to find what is not really laid out here in easy fashion. Not as much as it could be.
You still need to know the game a bit or else you're wondering and wandering.
It's been getting easier however.

Maybe a listing of all the various places and people to find this and that with addresses, phone numbers, e- mail addresses. So if somebody has a question we have it already anticipated here already.
I keep mentioning Sheldon and he's great!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spotters guide posted by Ian on 4/28/2002 at 10:09:20 AM
Hey guys these lists sound like a great idea but just stop and think for a moment - if you make it too easy to identify the bikes and find all the bits then every Joe Bloggs is going to do it! (No offence intended to all the Joes out there). Half the fun of discovering old bikes is having to search for the info and the parts to make them go again and the pleasure you get when you finally track it all down and get that parcel - Xmas several times a year. So don't make it too easy and spoil the excitement of the chase. Cheers, Ian.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spotters guide posted by Stacey on 4/28/2002 at 11:51:42 AM
I must respectfull say that I disagree with you on this Ian.

Fun is to be had in finding the bike and requsite parts for repair/restoration.

Fun is in getting prune hands from washing the accumulated years of grease, grime and other munge from your aqusition.

Fun is in the grease impacted fingernails and busted knuckles that are obtained while repairing/restoring your mount.

Fun is to be had in compliments and admirations from your fellow wheelmen and other strangers you meet upon the way when you cruise to the pub on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

However, there is no fun in spending countless hours doing gurnt work research, research that has been done hundreds if not thousands of times, only to come up with incomplete and inconclusive information each and every time it's done.

If we fail to preserve the heritages and histories that are still with us today, the grenerations of tomorrow will have but thinner and whispier ghosts to chase.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spotters guide posted by Ian on 4/29/2002 at 9:53:58 AM
You are probably right Stacey but the scary part of reading your reply is that the difference between fun and weird is only in the eye of the beholder. It might be a good job for most of us that we don't seem to care how we are regarded!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spotters guide posted by Edward in Vancouver on 4/29/2002 at 9:53:40 PM
Both Stacey and Ian raised some very good points. I certainly can identify with Ian's description of patiently waiting for long sought after parts, and the amount of effort to get to that stage. Kind of like a child's Christmas, but once it's over the child has got to look for something new to look forward to, like Easter. Half the fun is plotting to get the parts for your bike.
On the other hand I've certainly had my share of skinned knuckles, and the joy and frustration of finding out just how that @#$%!part fits. I also remember alot of frustration in not being able to locate certain parts or information pertaining to English bikes.

I think what separates us dedicated "English bike guys" is the amount of time and energy we put into our bikes. The normal Joe Blogg will never dream of investing mor than an hour's worth of time or more than $20.00 for parts/accessories on a bike; bikes are for kids, should be bought at the local Wal-mart, and even if they have more than 3 gears, they should only be ridden in one gear... If we convert a Joe Blogg to an English bike freak, so much the better for us, our bikes will be more desireable in the public's eye.
Information pertaining to English bikes should be easy to get. The person who actually goes out of his/her way to find this information should be rewarded for their efforts.
Edward in Vancouver

AGE / VALUE:   Robin Hood posted by: Andrea on 4/27/2002 at 6:20:03 PM
I was recently offered an old Robin Hood ladies bike. It needs work. Brake cables new tires and alot of elbow grease. Should I consider taking it and getting it in shape? Can anybody tell me more about this bike? When did they make Robin Hood? It looks 1950's or older. Is it a quality bike? Any value?
Thanks for your help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Robin Hood posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/27/2002 at 6:59:56 PM
I was offered a Robin Hood and it was lovely! Oh a beautiful bike! I hope it is not the basic black color but something like red or lilac.
You can tell the year by looking at the rear Sturmey- Archer hub. the month and date it was made is stamped on the rear hub.
these stoped being made about 1966, in there. What are they asking for the bike? Yes, get it if it's reasonable like $50.00 that's all I'd give for it.
A Quality bike? Well, it's a basic city bike, nothing fancy, it does not have lightweight tubing or rare, cool componets. It was made by Raleigh, a name Raleigh used on the line of B- grade bikes. Some of these can be really stunning with lovely decals and paintwork. You say it is about 1950. that can be a great looking bike.
Cables are sold here, no problem.

There is a following of folks who love these, they are collected and used and valued. Are they collectable? well, not like the Raleigh Chopper kids bike from the late 1960's early 1970's. Those are hopping with interest and they go for a lot of money. That's where the action is now. Look for Raleigh Choppers!. We can walk you thru anything you need to do and help in finding parts. Once again, I 'll say it! Go to Sheldon Brown's web site at http://www.Sheldonbrown.com old bikes and Raleigh bicycles section. Jump in, the waters great! When you come back to us you'll be all schooled about English bikes.
He even has a section about his old Robin Hood. He built this huge page that helps so many people about these. The Robin Hood is a solid bike and either you see it at the kerb or at a yard sale with a 100.00 price tag or they tighten up their grip on the handlebars and tell you it is not for sale. Not a particular valuable bike but it is a well loved, solid little bike. Go for it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Robin Hood posted by geo on 4/30/2002 at 3:12:20 AM
I just wanted to throw my two cents in regarding your quandry. I love old British bikes. They are built like brick outhouses, I've got 2 Raleigh's, 2 Triumph's and one Robin Hood. All of them were basket cases, all of them were able to be resurrected like a pheonix from the ashes. I pass people on Bianchi's who sneer but once in awhile I have an old timer gawk and wax poetic about some old Raleigh from thier past or some kid say "cool old bike". You should probably go to a bike shop and buy some kind of hybrid, comfort, cross something or other bike for a couple of hundred bucks but my advice is to save the Robin Hood from the junk pile because it wants to be ridden and besides this bike's got soul. I know it does.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Robin Hood posted by Chris on 5/2/2002 at 2:29:32 PM
Except for when "it's soul" jumps into me and makes me do strange things. Collecting bikes and this thirst for knowledge about them! I scurry about to and fro possesed. Looking for English 3 speeds. I pop up and fix this guys bike and wait until he walks out and he's going "Wow, somebody fixed my bike, gave me new parts too. The mystery bike mechanic gave me a free gift! You see he needed a shifter and cable and while he was in the place I quickly repaired his bike for him giving away a free shifter and cable and I adjusted it perfectly. The dude was so happy and surprised I walked up and shook his hand and made a friend, grinned and drove away. Don't tell me I ain't possesed by something strange.
Watch out for the soul of English bikes or bikes in general. It can take over your life.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Robin Hood posted by geo on 5/3/2002 at 3:56:26 AM
I just want to clarify my own position on this matter. British bikes are fun, funky, well built, durable machines. There are quite a few of them still around because they have an incredible survival rate and they are affordable. People ride around on bikes that cost as much as a good used car and I just can't see that they are getting anymore exercise or enjoyment out of them. To me new bikes are like a Lexus, everyone oooo's and aahh's over them and I can't tell if it's a $45,000 Lexus or a $12,000 Corolla. They all look the same to me, but seeing an old Raleigh Sports is like seeing a Triumph Spitfire. Real cool. I just want the record to show that I am in no way advocating compulsive spending or any other type of addiction. All I'm saying is a Robin Hood is a cool ride.