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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2 Raleigh Sportses/sale or trade posted by: ken on 6/17/2002 at 9:01:37 PM
Well, isn't the plural of Sports "Sportses"? Anyway, Mom and Dad bought theirs together, but they're not quite a pair. His is an AW dated 77, hers an S3C coaster dated 76. Made in England... now they're in northern Illinois and need a home. I've posted a picture to VVVintage with a success message but it hasn't appeared; glad to email it on request. Offers? Comments on value?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2 BSA cycles on eBay posted by: P.C. Kohler on 6/17/2002 at 7:40:00 PM
Two BSAs have come up on eBay; one gents, one ladies, rod brakes, gearcases.... don't see too many of these. Some nice scans for the ladies machine too.





P.C. Kohler

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by: P.C.Kohler on 6/17/2002 at 7:19:30 PM
Any colour as long as it's black?!

Does this hold true for tyres for English three speeds?

Catalogues and posters from the period (early to mid 50s) clearly show whitewall tyres on the better machines (Raleigh and Rudge Sport Tourists as the Superbes were called then). Has anyone seen these on an actual bike? I am getting a 1951 Rudge Sports Tourist (enclosed gearcase, three-speed dynohub/battery case etc) but the tyres are black. I am not sure if these are original. Whitewalls would look rather smart I think if authentic.

Dunlop Sprite amberwalls seem to have been fitted again to the better models in the early to mid 60s and again in the late 70s (foreign-made). In the early 70s there were those Dunlops with two thin white lines, I forget the name.

The only company that seems to supply whitewall tyres for 26" wheels is Kenda of Taiwan. Are Kendas decent quality?

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/18/2002 at 3:26:25 PM
Yes.. my DL-1 (1978) had these as well. I think they were made by Semperit (Sp?). They were great. The ones I got from Raleigh Nottingham are just as good, maybe better but not a clue as to where they were made.

And all white tyres are really great looking too! These seemed very common before the 1920s. I seem to recall one could buy tyres in these once traditional colours from someone in the UK but he died not too long ago and no one is jumping into what must be a very limited market!

P.C. Kohler, anxiously awaiting delivery of his '49 Rudge today.....

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by JohnM on 6/17/2002 at 8:05:10 PM
I have a '55 Sports which came with original Dunlop tires. They were blackwall. When I was young my Dad had two Rudge Sports models from the early 50's - from what I can recall of the decals and fittings, I'd say around 1953. They also had blackwall tires. So I'm thinking the whitewalls came in the late 50s? I'm not sure on the Kendas. If they still make anything in Taiwan, it could be quite good quality. But I'm thinking some of their stuff is produced in various other Pacific countries where the standards aren't so high. I love the Continental Top Tour in 26 x 1 3/8 - expensive but worth it if you ride the bike a lot. Harris Cyclery used to have them - not sure if they still do. They also list a Hutchinson with a whitewall. I have an IRC whitewall tire in this size that was on a Gazelle brought over from Europe - rated for something like 80 psi, I've never seen or heard of anything like it on this side of the Atlantic.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/17/2002 at 8:46:54 PM
Thanks John, very helpful. Harris still list the Continental by the way. The only whitewalls are by Kenda ("Taiwan"). I am still tempted by these somehow, just as a change of pace. They look so elegant in the posters and catalogues of the era. How many out there still have original Dunlops on their machines? My wife's DL1-L dating from 1970 still has the original Dunlop "Gold Seal Roadster" tyres; cracked but they still work fine. I got a dozen "Raleigh Roadster" tyres (foreign made) from Nottingham about 10 years ago. They are MUCH better quality than anything I've seen but I don't know who made them or where. I love that old way of doing things: if it wasn't "Made in Gt. Britain", it was simply labelled as "foreign" and that was that!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by Jeff R. on 6/17/2002 at 11:40:21 PM
I've used Kenda high pressure tires with amberwalls and found them to be satisfactory. At present, I am using Tri-Sport high pressure amberwalls, marketed by Specialized. They take up to 85 p.s.i., and work very well. All of the early 50's bikes that I've had came with Dunlop blackwalls.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/18/2002 at 1:21:21 AM
The postman delivered a lovely c. 1955 Raleigh (UK) brochure this afternoon. Twenty-two pages crammed with information from what must be a Golden Age of English Cycles.

Specific to tyres, it mentions that Dunlop Tourist Sprite, Speed and White Sprite models were fitted to the Raleigh range. Dunlop Road Racing or Dunlop Speed tyres to the Lentons. The White Sprites seem to have been fitted only to the lightweight Trent Tourist (which had those neat white celluloid mudguards) but maybe these could be requested for other machines.

I am seeing if I can scan this wonderful catalogue and post on my Yahoo Group "Roll Britannia". Alas, Yahoo has prevented non Premium Service members from viewing images in their full size so this small size catalogue may be illigible as a scan. I'll do some experimentation.

P.C. Kohler, marvelling at how EXPENSIVE Raleighs were: £23 19 s. 6 d. for a top of the line Superbe.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by sam on 6/18/2002 at 3:20:00 AM
Did pre-war English roadesters(28") use red tires like the American bikes?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/18/2002 at 3:32:53 AM
I wish-- I was riding my DL-1 this evening thinking the same thing! Brick red tyres on a DL-1 would look splendid!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyres posted by Drew on 6/18/2002 at 11:37:29 AM
My '74 Dl-1 tyres say 'Raleigh Roadster-made in Austria' who made these? To Sam, I've seen photos of Raleigh bikes circa WWI with all white tyres!

MISC:   Sears 3 Speed posted by: Bryant on 6/17/2002 at 11:11:01 AM
I need some information on a nice men's 3 speed I saw at a thrift shop. It was a Sears and Roebucks but the rear hub said Made in Austria and had a 68 stamped on it (1968?). I don't remember the model name but it had a European type traffic sign on the top of the top bar, and a very large headlight mounted on the handle bars. It was in very good condition with fenders and rear rack, very little rust. Anyone know who would have made these bicycles for Sears and are they worth anything??

   RE:MISC:   Sears 3 Speed posted by Mark R. on 6/17/2002 at 12:45:42 PM
They were made by Stehr. They aren't as well made a th Raleighs, but they ride fairly nicely. About roughly equiv. to the Robinhoods, or Phillips. The hub is a copy of the S/A made under licence. If it's not very expencive you should get it, you might even enjoy riding it.

   RE:MISC:   Sears 3 Speed posted by Bryant on 6/17/2002 at 7:03:31 PM
Thanks for the info. I may pick it up if I can find someone who wants it. It's too small for me and I'm running out of room in the garage.

   RE:MISC:   Sears 3 Speed posted by auldooly on 6/24/2002 at 2:10:38 PM
These bikes were made by Puch (of the Steyr-Daimler-Puch group) and sold by Sears in even-numbered years throughout the 60's. In odd numbered years, Sears lightweights were supplied by Murray. The 3 speed hub is identical in every way to the Sturmey Archer AW, except for the hub shell with it's 3 ripples. I have here a 1960 Sears Catalog that lists the Standard Model at $40.85, and a nicer model, with tire pump, chrome fork crown, tourist bag, and generator powered headlight/taillight sold for $47.85.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by: P.C. Kohler on 6/17/2002 at 4:01:42 AM
Just saw the film "Enigma"; a good suspense thriller set in England in 1943. Loads of great British trains, motorcars, even an MTB and... you guessed it, loads of classic bicycles. I mean more cycles with rod brakes, enclosed gearcases, great old lamps and such than you'll see in any movie! The "hero" even cycles to several scenes. There is one brief glimpse of a classic old cycle shed just crammed with roadsters and such...!

P.C. Kohler, who returned from this blasted film and.... bought that lovely Rudge Sports Tourist (otherwise known as a Superbe) on eBay... talk about an expensive cinema outing!!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by Drew on 6/17/2002 at 11:08:34 AM
I look forward to seeing the film, sounds like it shows how roadsters used to be the daily transportation for the masses. Makes me think how the new 18-21 speed Asian bikes are really over-kill, gadgets, suspension...Please! I just read a story about a nurse, who in 1963 rode here 1 speed English bike across Europe into Asia, over 1000 miles, encountering floods, wolves, sub zero temps. There must be truth in the saying 'less is more'...all one needs is a fine English cycle!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by MR on 6/17/2002 at 12:47:42 PM
Used to be? I ride mine to work everyday?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by Ben on 6/17/2002 at 2:40:04 PM
Ditto here, I routinely ride mine up to 20 miles one way to business meetings....

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/17/2002 at 3:46:05 PM
I work from home part of the week and walk to work otherwise, so my Roadstering is purely recreational. A 6-mile ride every weekday evening and 20-35 miles at the weekend. Sure the DL-1 is a bit of handful on some of the more twisty and bendy cycle paths, but she has embarassed more than her share of 15 pound titanium jobs and Spandex-clad blokes! I find I am using 3rd gear about 75 per cent of the time and a DL-1 loves to cruise along in that.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Roadsters on Film posted by David Poston on 6/17/2002 at 5:13:02 PM

Funny you should mention "Enigma." I love period films. I saw it several weeks ago and was planning to go see it again, almost just for the vintage cycles. It was a great movie as well with a complex plot. I missed the first 5-10 minutes so seeing it again would be worthwhile.


AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by: Mark W. on 6/16/2002 at 4:03:44 PM
Through an estate auction I now own a what seems to be a late 60's Raleigh roadster with rod brakes & 28" wheels, trouble is it has a custom paint job signed and dated 1972, psychedelic style with the name 'Black Sabbath' in the design. It is very well done, the bike looks to have been taken apart when this was done. I'd rather have a stock looking roadster, but is this art work worth something in the pop culture world?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by Chris on 6/16/2002 at 4:39:26 PM
Just when I think I have seen or heard of it all...

Offer it on e- bay and find something with factory paint

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by David on 6/16/2002 at 10:02:41 PM
This sounds very kool, I'm tempted! Where's the bike and what size is its frame?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by Stacey on 6/17/2002 at 1:29:09 AM
Congratulations on a super find, David. As a dyed in the wool Dead Head, I've gotta say I'm envyous. But I'm also delighted to hear that something like this even exists.

You say this custom paintjob is signed... by whom? There were a bunch of Kustom car guys that did some bikes in those days too... perhaps a 'Von Dutch'?

The Grateful Dead tie in has got to be a boon to it's value, 'specially with Uncle Jerry's passing.

My suggestion would be a gentle washing and drying (if needed) then get yourself some GOOD photos taken both conventional film & digital (be sure to send some to Jim at bikerodnkustom.com I'm sure he'd love to do a piece on it) Then beat the bushes for all the information you can gather on this. Who knows, with proper documentation this migh be a Sootheby's candidate.

Best of luck!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by Mark R. on 6/17/2002 at 2:39:16 PM
Don't paint it! Please post a picture! I / we all would like to see it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What to do..roadster/paint posted by smg on 6/17/2002 at 5:05:50 PM
The guys over on the lowrider site might be interested in this one, too.

MISC:   "Beater" bikes a worthwhile investment? posted by: David Poston on 6/16/2002 at 7:13:55 AM
Do any of you guys think that "beater" bikes are a good investment in addition to your regular roadster? What I mean by "beater" is a bike that you don't care much about so you can leave it at the bus stop (chained up, of course) and not sweat it if it gets stolen. Of course, the "beater" would have to be a good olde English bike, maybe a ladies Raleigh 3-speed. I was thinking today that after I fix up my Rudge and spruce it up, I will have invested around $300 in it, and I would hate to have some scum beat it up or steal it. Sad, isn't it, that we live in a world where can't just leave our bikes and not worry about it.

So I decided to make my rounds at the local thrift shops to see what i could scrounge up. I had no luck at the thrift shops, but I happened to be driving along and what did I see, a bum sidling along on a green Raleigh Sports ladies model What did I do? I stopped the car, got out and haggled with him for the bike. I ended up parting with $45 of my hard-earned cash which was probably way too much, now that I think about it. I was so excited I failed to notice that the front wheel wasn't even correct, being 24" instead of 26". Another puzzling thing is that there is no gear shifter on the handlebars. The guy claimed it was a one-speed. Could this be true? It does have front and rear handbrakes, although they need replacement parts to be in working condition. The paint wasn't too good, but then again I was looking for a "beater" bike. I'm wondering if getting a cheap "beater" bike was a good investment after all, since I will have to invest in a front wheel and tire, as well as figure out what's going on with the SA hub. (Maybe it is one-speed after all). One thing that worries me is that there is a horrible scraping sound coming from the hub every few revolutions when I back-pedal. Maybe I just need to add some oil?

I'd like to hear from you all what you think about this strategy of getting a "beater" bike while your nice one is sitting pretty locked-up in your garage. The downside of this strategy is that you often end up investing time and money into fixing up the beater, and you might have just stuck with one bike.

I guess I could always just keep this old Raleigh Sport around for parts....

   RE:MISC:    posted by geo on 6/16/2002 at 1:31:50 PM
No offense Dave but you got to pull in the reins here. $45 for a dilapitated incomplete ladies Raleigh is insane and I mean no offense but what is with you and ladies bikes. Personally I would part this junker out and toss the frame. I have heard that Raleigh had single speen coaster brakes but by the description who knows what this guy slapped together out of dumpsters. Personally even british "beaters" are nice and worth fixing up nice. I have a couple of bikes that I use the way you are describing and they are both MEN'S 10 speeds. I lock them up with a Kryptonite lock. I would also suggest that you learn how to fix as much as you can on your bikes. It's more fun, it's only a bicycle(not rocket science) and you'll save alot of money. My local bike shop charges about $150 for a tune-up. I can buy 2 tires, 2 tubes, new cables and some oil for about $35, tune it up and change the tires for $115 less than they'll charge me. My advice to you is to learn some patience in this hobby. Despite what you see on ebay, bicycles have very little resale value so you can really end up losing your shirt if you are not careful. Ladies bikes are worth very little. You should really only buy the correct bike for you(i.e. size and gender) and bikes you like because unless you get a real deal you will probably have difficulty selling them. Patience, grasshopper, patience

   RE:MISC:    posted by David on 6/16/2002 at 1:46:38 PM
What I find happens with the "junk" bikes from the trash is that they very quickly become favorite bikes and you invest a fair amount in them, like a free puppy. I got my Robin Hood from the trash, then I added a Brooks, tires, chain, Kool stop pads, dyno, rack, and so on. The initial (zero) price doesn't mean a thing any more! But at least it's an out-of-style bike with bad paint and I think that's its most important anti-theft quality.

   RE:MISC:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/16/2002 at 3:13:04 PM
David-- you have a nice Rudge. But it's NOT a museum piece, it's a bicycle. Enjoy it. Ride the heck out of it. Of course theft is an issue but be serious: if you were going to steal a bike, would you go after a black English three-speed? As someone said, get a good lock, relax and have fun. One reason I am getting my 26" inch wheel Rudge is so I can take it on the subway (DL-1s are just too big for that) so this baby is going to get used. I hope a lot. As for fixing your own machine, sure try it and see if you're comfortable with some of the minor repairs. Me, I still let the pros handle the periodic overhauls. Just my preference. I just don't have the tools and space to do that sort of thing. The single worse thing you can do: put that Rudge on hooks in your garage. The poor thing has already spent the last 25 years like that I reckon. Give her a break: take for her a ride!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:MISC:    posted by geo on 6/16/2002 at 4:35:40 PM
Amen! Ride it.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:    posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/16/2002 at 4:53:45 PM
We had a lady here awhile ago and she said that the thief broke in, used her own tools to steal her bike and they took the Raleigh Superbe and left the new mountain bike. Yes, theft is an issue with these. In New York, they load all kinds of bikes onto ships and they sail away for foreign lands.
The scraping sound is cause to go into the bottom bracket axle. The bum probably has a broken off indicator chain and so, it is in 3 rd gear. Does the rear hub say A.W. on it? That is the three speed. You will have to dissasemble the hub in case the chain is broke off. You obviously love these bikes so you spent $45.00 on one. People have done worse. The guys are right with saying 45.00 is too high but don't let them shake your tree. Part of this is learning and with all we have done here on this site and elsewhere, still getting into this hobby or love is not laid out simply for the beginner. You can find a wheel, repair the hub, whatever you need. And you can e-mail me directly if you need a walk thru.
Have you checked your used book store, left your number for them to call you when they get a book or two in? Start a library of bike books all kinds and read, read, read. If you find older bnicycle magazines don't be too surprised to find works by Sheldon Brown who was writing articles before the web site was invented.

   Beater bike posted by David Poston on 6/16/2002 at 5:43:25 PM
I certainly agree that it was a very hasty decision, and a poor one at that. I'm still skeptical of leaving my Rudge out there, however, even locked. I've lost two bikes in the past two years. I'll have to think about it.

The hub is a regular AW hub, so it should be a 3-speed, right? What would it look like if it was a 1-speed? The bike is hard to pedal, so I'm assuming it is stuck in 3rd gear.

On a positive note, I wonder if I can transplant the front fork off this bike onto my Rudge?

Thanks for your criticisms and suggestions, I appreciate them all.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:    posted by geo on 6/16/2002 at 5:49:22 PM
Hey Dave, I'm not trying to "shake your tree" here, I think most of us are trying to help. I think it is very important that you get the right bike(s) when you're getting into this. For instance I am 6'2" tall, so I need a tall frame. These are not nearly as common in roadsters. I've seen plenty of smaller bikes, even bought a couple early on and got burned because they weren't a comfortable ride and I got burned trying to unload them, now I pass them up. It ain't easy seeing a mint Phillip's for $30.00 and passing it up but it really is for the best. It's not much fun to me if I can't ride it. The way I look at it is I would rather have someone who can use the bike end up with it(although it probably doesn't always end up that way). I've got three tall frame Raleighs and it took awhile to get them and alot of elbow grease to get them going again but it's better than having 50 bikes I can't ride. Leave the ladies bikes for our female counterparts or buy them if you need the parts. Otherwise take it slow, think about your purchases, and when you do buy that right bike(like that Rudge), savour it a little before you start thinking of the next purchase. Otherwise it can be very expensive and very frustrating because you will never have enough and you will have forgotten the reason you bought that Rudge that'll be hanging in your garage. As a couple of us have said before. Ride it.

   English bikes  posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/16/2002 at 6:48:37 PM
He should be skeptical/skittish about leaving the Rudge out there. People back into bikes with cars just to be a mean idiot. These bikes are taken all the time. I would not leave it out of sight. Neither would a lot of folks especially folks who loves to ride these.

The Rudge is a cool bike to have. You can replace the whole thing and replace parts and even a fork. He should be able to use this fork even off of a ladies bike. Paint will not match neither would decals but it would work. Try it and see how it handles. Threading should match up no problem. If it is all Raleigh and it usually is.

Now to replace the Rudge would not be cheap or real easy and so keep it in sight, don't leave it. Is there anybody around that can be enlisted to watch the bike for you? Shop keeper, store somebody? Think on this. The A.W. is the three speed hub. You have to figure out how to get it back to being a 3 speed. Is the chain comming out of the hub? Look in the axle is it there or broke off? Now if it is a plain hub with a freewheel on it then it is a single speed. In the diagrams we have here under "Resources" if you look thru the Raleigh/ Rudge/ Humber exploded diagrams you will see the single speed models by Raleigh. Raleigh in this particular service sheet booklet decided to not show Sturmey-Archer hub gears so all the bikes are shown with a single speed hub. By "shaking your tree", I meant don't let the fact that you spent 45.00 for this ladies frame bike bother you. Of course everybody here is here to offer help. Differing opinions is great.

Before you spend more than $15.00 on it think How dificult is it for me in my area of the world to find parts or another bike? Kep in mind e- bay and all you have to take into account like shipping 50.-75.00 and waiting.

Now that Phillips in mint shape for $30.00 I would jump on.
This is not thought of the same way all over, still there are general guidelines running through it and we see these guidelines in what folks say. Some folks don't have room to work on things, some folks collect and collect to most it's just a bike and that's why we see them all shabby looking. one fellow in England told me that most of the population is completely deskilled while his father would overhaul a sturmey hub at the table when folks today would not even dream of trying. These bikes were meant to be stripped and re-built. They made it possible and encouraged you to do so. Reams of information was put out there for the bike owner. We have a bit of it there on the net but still not there yet and so many folks with these bikes would not even dream there is a web site like this one. Some folks would nort give you 10.00 for it and some will pay more than you think. In general, be careful with a 26 inch wheel 3 speed bike. Many will not get you 50.00 and some do go up to 2 or even 300.00 depends on what it is, condition, all that. You can get burned easily if you don't really know the game.

In general, unless you are a lady or have trouble getting your leg over the bar stay away from a ladies frame. They are worth less come re- sell time. Sexist I know, but that is the way it is, pending a potental female take over. Many women like a mens frame and it is a stronger frame too. Good heavens! A English 3 speed bike could be anything, they made so many!

   RE:English bikes  posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/16/2002 at 6:52:33 PM
It's not difficult to overhaul a headset or a bottombracket. Just gather up the parts you will need and go thru it step by step.

   RE:RE:MISC:    posted by Warren on 6/17/2002 at 1:08:34 AM
Spend the dough and buy a good krypto lock...they won's steal it. Just don't leave any accessories on it.

   Bike theft   posted by David Poston on 6/17/2002 at 1:23:31 AM
I've got a 4/10" diameter Kryptonite steel cable. Do you think that will do the trick?

   RE:Bike theft   posted by geo on 6/17/2002 at 3:40:38 AM
I believe the man said spend the dough and buy a GOOD krypto lock. They are less than $45. The average age of most bike thieves is probably 13, so unless your riding a BMX I wouldn't worry so much about something that hasn't even happened yet. Your getting some good advice here from all sides, so take it. Please!

   RE: Being burned once is enough posted by Ben on 6/17/2002 at 2:49:00 PM
David, I agree with Chris...my first nice bike was a Humber Sports with chaincase and it was stolen right out of my garage. Now I lock all my bikes to the rafters with a big steel cable.

   taking precautions posted by David Poston on 6/17/2002 at 6:42:40 PM
I decided to go ahead and research bike locks and get the best thing that money can buy and just ride my Rudge. I suppose the money spent on a "beater" bike could just as well be spent on a good security system. Thanks again for all the criticisms and suggestions here.

   RE:Bike theft   posted by Warren on 6/18/2002 at 1:50:18 AM
I always buy the Krypto Evolution series locks and they are expensive at around $60 US. I've got three of them plus a couple of other decent imitators. I've been locking good bikes outside at during evening shifts for 15 years and haven't lost a bike yet. You can blow thru a cable lock in .5 secs with a boltcutter.

   Kryptonite locks posted by David Poston on 6/18/2002 at 6:30:12 AM
I was doing research on Kryptonite locks and it seems that the New York 3000 U-lock is their top-of-the-line bike lock. Have you heard anything about how these perform? Would you recommend investing in one of these? I'm thinking it would be good to have a cable lock as well to secure my front wheel, too.

   RE:Kryptonite locks posted by Warren on 6/18/2002 at 12:25:46 PM
The NY lock is too big and heavy. Don't sweat the cable lock...rarely will a thief steal a 590 mm EA1 steel rim that won't fit a modern bike and can't be sold for money and doesn't have a quick release. Before too long, you will likely have spares anyway.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Is this Raleigh worth anything? posted by: Joe Malnack on 6/16/2002 at 12:57:44 AM
A friend has a Raleigh with the words Grand
Sport - Super Record - Touring 14 - Super Deluxe. Does anyone know a value, or a source for finding out? Thanks!


AGE / VALUE:   Carry mad money on your person! gosh darn dishes! posted by: Chris on 6/15/2002 at 4:51:29 PM
I drag myself out of bed,put on shoes and go off down the street. The garage sale just opened up and what I see makes me gasp.
BLUE HEAVEN DISHES! 50'S -60'S COMMON AMERICAN DISHES THAT ARE NOW SOUGHT AFTER AND PRICEY! A whole huge set and a half! I was not carrying money and when I got back they were gone. Another customer called in a dealer who got his butt there immeditely and they sold immediately for 75.00. These go for about 375.00 to 500.00.
Blue heaven is popular. I rarely see them. I have three sets one to use and two to keep. Still, I blew the chance by not being prepared. Oh, I am heart sick. I collected blue heaven before it got big but a chance like this rarely comes by.Failing at beating out a dealer is part of the agony.
Also, Bikes? You do bikes? (pause) Yes, I pick up the bikes too.....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carry mad money on your person! gosh darn dishes! posted by DREW on 6/15/2002 at 7:34:41 PM
A tag sale is how i got started on Engish bikes, Two years ago I knew almost nothing about the world of roadsters, ect. I stopped at a sale and there it was, a '74 DL-1 in mint condition, ridden twice, one owner, $45.00 , and I thought that was too much so I passed, then stopped at a friends bike shop to describe he bike, he said "you fool, go back and buy it". It was still there and I still own it, have added a dynohub light set-up and a Rampar canvas seat bag. What a great machine !

AGE / VALUE:   Superbe posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/15/2002 at 4:33:13 PM
I am just not seeing any Sports or Supurbes and I don't know when the last time that I saw a rod brake bike. Those are especially scarce!
I did see one Supurbe the other day, but with all the looking I do, I should see more.
Where are these bikes?
I taped a note to the guy's handlebars offering $150.00 for the Supurbe. I should have offered higher and the owner probably wants to keep it. It was not cared for at all.rusty chain,peppered rims e.t.c.

Also, I probably made the fellow mad by taping a note to the bike with the offer. If I do get a call, it may be a angry call. I said that I have some and know where to get parts. I usually don't do this at all. Taping a note is sure to rub the owner the wrong way at least I think. I'm good about striking up a conversation but the owner was not around.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Superbe posted by Kevin C. on 6/16/2002 at 10:17:04 AM
I don't think the owner will consider your note an affront, especially since you offered more for the bike than most people would. Many collectors of old cars leave notes on windshields. It's an easy way to make an initial contact, and it doesn't cost anything.

MISC:   Ball bearings posted by: David on 6/15/2002 at 12:06:12 PM
Are ball bearings normally softer or the same hardness as races? (It would be nice to have the cheap balls wear fastest.) Do the grade numbers of bearings have anything to do with hardness? Or precision of size?

   RE:MISC:   Ball bearings posted by David on 6/15/2002 at 12:18:20 PM
Duh! Search the web first. The quality number refers to the size tolerance in millionths of an inch. Here's a link to info: http://www.hartfordball.com/home.htm#mat (Should balls be softer than races?)

   RE:MISC:   Ball bearings posted by Warren on 6/15/2002 at 12:31:50 PM
I suspect the harder the better.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for comfy grips and saddle posted by: David Poston on 6/14/2002 at 7:37:37 PM
Now that my Rudge is sitting in the shop, I thought I would hunt around for some parts to spiffy it up a bit. I'm thinking about new grips (the old ones get dried out over 30 years, don't they?) that are comfortable, and a new saddle. It has a B-72 on it right now, which is pretty stiff. Would I be better off with a B-66 that I broke in myself? Anyone know which Brooks saddle is the most comfortable? (I'd prefer one in brown, if that's possible).

--David, whose Rudge is in the hospital.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for comfy grips and saddle posted by Mark R. on 6/14/2002 at 7:50:35 PM
You should try the saddle you have before changing it becaus although it may FEEL hard to the hand, it may feel really nice to the rear end. Mine is as hard as a rock(saddle that is), however it is as comfortable as any saddle I've ever used. You may find it the same with yours.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for comfy grips and saddle posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/14/2002 at 8:28:45 PM
All Brooks leather saddles are 'hard', remember these are not padded 'seats' but saddles. B72 'loop spring' saddles are outstanding and really comfortable, usually without any 'breaking in'. Get some Proofhide and give it a good clean and you should be happy with it. And it's authentic and original equipment too. B66s are good too but they aren't any 'softer' to the touch than a B72, they just have two rear springs. Personally, I find the B72 more comfortable. As for colour, saddles like old Rudges, come in one shade: BLACK. Those honey-coloured Brooks things are a 1990s 'thing'.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for comfy grips and saddle posted by David on 6/15/2002 at 1:32:47 AM
Harris Cyclery has copies of the "Dare" grips common to most of the 60s Sports models.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for comfy grips and saddle posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/15/2002 at 2:30:59 AM
I always liked the earlier light grey 'torpedo' (for want of a better description) grips. To my pleasant surprise, I was able to order several pair of these from Raleigh, Nottingham c. 1987. Alas by the time of my last parts order six years later, they supplied yucky Asian knock-offs of the black style grips. Someone on eBay has been selling very elegant looking leather grips by Brooks no less; not 'authentic' but very handsome and I bet they feel great too.

P.C. Kohler

   Has anyone tried these grips? posted by David Poston on 6/15/2002 at 5:31:06 AM
Harris Cyclery is selling some apparently French-made grips which are supposed to simulate the original "Dare"? grips. Scroll down this page to view them:


Has anyone tried these out?


   The best Brooks saddle posted by David Poston on 6/15/2002 at 5:39:20 AM
Here's what Sheldon Brown has to say about Brooks sprung saddles:

"The B66 series is the most popular of Brooks's sprung models. They are an excellent choice for recreational or utility cycling in a fairly upright posture. The B66 is most appropriate for cyclists who set their handlebars higher than their saddles. In general, the more upright your riding posture, the wider, and more heavily sprung, the saddle you should choose. . . . Unless you're dead set on an absolutely authentic restoration, the B66 is the better choice. The B66 is the model used on the deluxe "Superbe" versions of the Raleigh Sports, and the springs really work. The loop "springs" on the B72 don't do much."

I'm wondering why P.C. found a B-66 to be uncomfortable. Maybe it's just a matter of breaking them in?


   RE:The best Brooks saddle posted by Warren on 6/15/2002 at 12:35:45 PM
I'm with P.C. The B66 is too soft for my liking. The contours on the B72 fit my butt better. Softness and size have little to do with comfort.

   Could it be a weight factor? posted by David Poston on 6/15/2002 at 5:08:21 PM
Maybe the B66 was too springy for you guys? I'm a small guy, so maybe the B66 would fit me better?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Knock-offs posted by: J.C.Taylor on 6/14/2002 at 3:05:26 PM
I'm new to roadsters, but have decided that now in retirement a Dl-1 is the bike for me. Unhappily we don't see many Dl-1's here in Oklahoma. Now a local dealer has come up with one, apparently in good shape, though it lacks fenders and chaincase. I haven't found any evidence of its origin on it anywhere but the badge, and the dealer says he suspects it's from India. Hence the question: what about Asian knock-offs? Are they to be avoided under all circumstances, or what? And what about buying a bike that needs pieces?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Knock-offs posted by Mark R. on 6/14/2002 at 3:52:48 PM
J.C., I had a "Roadmaster" roadster that was made in India. I would avoid an Asian version of these bikes, exept as a source for rims, and chain cases and such unless you find a real bargain, say $5. Although some really look good, especially at a distance, the vast majority are really, really bad. They sell for around $15 over there. I know I'm using a dirty word, but check eBay regularly, and I'm sure you'll find a nice Raleigh for a good price eventually.
The rims, tyres, and chaincases though are passing fair quality, and could be fitted on a REAL English bike.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Knock-offs posted by rickey on 6/14/2002 at 5:26:49 PM
does anyone know about a bike made in holland it's called a eminent it looks like the dl1's you guy's talk about

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Knock-offs posted by Mark R. on 6/14/2002 at 5:29:50 PM
Yes, and most Dutch bikes are very nice indeed, except they aren't imported here:-(

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh "Twenty" posted by: Evileye on 6/14/2002 at 3:05:53 PM
I was at my local sportss consignment shop and happened to notice that they had two coffee coloured Raleigh Twenty folding bikes. Price is very good, and so is the condition of the two bike, as well. I was wondering if is any value to these Raleighs and worthwhile in purchasing them?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by Mark R. on 6/14/2002 at 3:56:52 PM
Heck yeah! If they are reasonably inexpensive, get 'em! They are cool! You'll love using them, or you could sell me one!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by JohnM on 6/14/2002 at 11:50:18 PM
Great bikes! I love mine. Faster than they look, rugged, and great handling for a folder. Biggest weakness is the stock brakes. Someday I want to put some alloy BMX wheels on mine, and a hub with more gears.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/15/2002 at 4:26:30 PM
These are hard to find and are not cheap. Pick them up, don't waste time.
Sheldon Brown has a Raleigh Twenty page at his site

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by dafydd on 6/15/2002 at 11:56:58 PM
Folding Twenties in good condition regularly sell for approx. $200 on ebay.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by chris on 6/16/2002 at 4:56:31 PM
Buy low, sell high. buy low and see how low can they go!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by Evileye on 6/19/2002 at 3:07:51 PM
Thanks for help. It's just that I saw them sitting there, something of value that is just not usually just sitting there and waiting. I looked at the condition again, everything looks orignal, and in very good condition, right down to the wide white tyres.
Since the store works on the reverse auction, I'm going to what a few days for the price to drop. "Patience is virtue"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by: David Poston on 6/14/2002 at 5:00:46 AM
Well, I came home from work today and stared at the porch, to find that my Rudge had arrived! Like an excited child, I opened the box (with the help of my dad), only to find that the front fork was too narrow to fit on the front wheel axle. Dismayed, we rushed over to a local bike shop (Daniel Boone's) and had them inspect it. Sure enough, they told me the fork was bent, probably during shipping. It was about an inch too narrow, so some considerable bending must have taken place. How, I don't know. Well, the good news is that the owner of the shop turned out to be very experienced with these bikes, and experienced with straightening forks too. He offered (for a small fee) to try to straighten it. I decided to leave my bike at the shop for a complete overhaul as well. Disappointed, I went home and cried :). All those days of waiting, only to have my bike sit in the shop.

I hope I made the right decision. Anyone here know where I can get a replacement fork if the straightening idea doesn't pan out? Would I need a fork specific to this size bike?


   I hate this! posted by Ray on 6/14/2002 at 2:54:06 PM
There is no excuse for a damaged bike unless there was gross neglegence on the part of the carrier. I have also received several bikes damaged in transit and each time I could pin point the blame to the sender and here is why. Improper packing. That fork should have had one of those plastic fork inserts placed into it prior to packing. They are throw away items at any bike shop and I have my LBS save them up for me. Another common problem is parts missing after the bike rips a hole in the box. This is caused by no or poor packaging material used. A bike cannot be just disassembled and thrown into a box. You have to wrap carefully each part removed from the bike and place it in the box with padding so it does not move around or rub against another bare part. Any pointed part of the bike must be padded so it does not rip through the box. The chain ring if left on the bike must be padded on the bottom or it will saw its way through the box. Wheel hub axles must have those throw away plastic disks placed on them so again they do not come through the box. These disks are also found at your LBS again I have my guy save them up. You can put styrofoam over the hub axles if you do not have thise disks. Never-Never use tape on any painted surface of the bike. Stuff the box with packaging material so nothing is moving around. Small parts should be placed in a separate small box that is placed inside the bike box. If the bike has fenders and you remove them, they must be packaged so they do not bend. I usually place both fenders together back to back with some padding between. Then I take the fenders and place them over the front wheel in the box for added support. All small screws, nuts, washers can be placed right back into the hole they came out of, just tighten them up so they do not work loose. This will help the person who has to re-assemble the bike figure out where everything goes. You can use foam rubber, bubble wrap, cardboard, newspaper, styrofoam so long as you pack tightly and protect the parts from coming through the box and rubbing against each other then you will have a successful shipment. Sorry going off like this but I have received too many damaged bikes from people who should know better.

   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by David Poston on 6/14/2002 at 4:42:03 PM
Here is an e-mail from the seller on this: "David, I did notice that the front wheel was hard to get off the fork, I honestly just assumed that was they way they were designed. It didn't look visibly bent to my eye once the wheel was off. Lets see if they can restraighten the fork, and what the cost if they are successful. I am flexible about reasonable compensation. If it turns out that it is beyond hope, you can return it and I will refund your money. The kickstand was already broken, sorry I didn't mention, it wasnt' really part of the original bike."

There was nothing in between the fork prongs, by the way, not a plastic fork insert, a piece of styrofoam or anything. Looks like the seller was a bit sloppy in throwing the bike in the box. Disassembly consisted of removing the front wheel and fender and the handlebars. A couple of holes in the box were taped up, by whom I don't know. I don't know if it's the seller or UPS to blame for this.

I forgot to mention that I got a kickstand (probably not original) that was snapped off. What do I need for a replacement?

Thanks all,


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/14/2002 at 5:22:51 PM
David, sorry to hear of your Rudge rigours. Now I'm getting nervous about mine due to arrive Tuesday! But it's being shipped by a longstanding mail order used cycle dealer so here's hoping. Ray's packing tips are invaluable and I will keep this on file to send to any other eBay sellers I deal with.

The good news David: these are tough machines! Good solid Sheffield Steel here. And having the cycle given a thorough overhaul by a good mechanic who likes these bikes is a prudent idea. In the end, you should wind up with a better cycle and a cheaper one if you can get a rebate. I got a rebate on those wrong colour Sunbeam mudguards by the way. Say what you will about eBay, but generally the folks buying and selling on the site are good, honest and decent people. Even if some of them can't pack a cycle!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by rickey@knowles bicycle shop on 6/14/2002 at 5:41:13 PM
i have bought new bikes brought in by ups ect. droped on the floor thron on the floor ect.one can only imagine what happens elswhere.keep in mind before you demand refund the seller had intentions to sell get rid of ect. when shipping through ups ect. there is insurance incl.in postage new used ect. professional packers make mistakes also. I PERSONALY don't mean to step on any toes so lets just enjoy our hobby ect.have a nice day gent's

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by Drew on 6/14/2002 at 11:03:56 AM
Hang in there, I'm sure folks on this website will assist in in any way needed to get your machine on the road, you'll be riding the bike before you know it!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by Mark R. on 6/14/2002 at 12:24:33 PM
Not to worry! I'm sure the shop will fix it! I myself have succsessfully unbent forks myself several times, and you'd never know to look at them that they had been damaged. If you run into trouble, I'm sure I/We can rustle up a fork that will be an almost perfect match, except maybe you'd have to paint it. However, I feel your bike will be fine, you'll see.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by rickey@knowles bicycle shop on 6/14/2002 at 1:08:10 PM
not uh prob you could have saved the money however we all nead to make some. hope you enjoy your bike

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge received but damaged. HELP! posted by rickey@knowles bicycle shop on 6/14/2002 at 1:08:37 PM
not uh prob you could have saved the money however we all nead to make some. hope you enjoy your bike