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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 86 posted by: Gary on 8/16/2002 at 9:11:34 PM
i recentley got a BSA 1986, i would like to know more about e.g. value and rare/non rare ect please email me if you have any info. thanks

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 86 posted by David on 8/18/2002 at 3:20:30 PM
Was the brand BSA in use in England in the 80s? My guess is that this bike is a 3rd-world bike (BSA name licensed by that South African outfit mentioned in some post recently); possibly made in Africa, India, or South America.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 86 posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/19/2002 at 2:56:55 AM
A BSA from 1986 is assuredly NOT made in England but most likely in India where the name is still used for roadsters. As for value, it's minimal for that reason. "Real" BSAs seem to be quite scarce at least North America.

P.C. Kohler

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I NEED HELP FOR HUMBER RESTORATION posted by: Mario Romano on 8/16/2002 at 8:25:01 PM
I thinking on begin the restoration of my 1949 Humber male bicycle next month and I need a little help from my OldRoads friends on answering me some questions.

1-My Humber is painted black. What colours could I paint my bike, except black, according to original specifications?
2-Could I use metallic colours without broke the standard colour specifications for Humber bikes?
3-Is permissed to replace some minor brake parts with modern-made brake parts?
4-Humber models have tinny gold and red stripes painted all along the frame and fenders?
5-Humber models have the extreme point of the fenders painted white?
6-My Humber have Hercules Cycles and Motors 3-speed hub, this gear hub is old?
7-Humber-made bicycles have an front fender aluminum ornament like a "bullet" front pointing into a circle?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I NEED HELP FOR HUMBER RESTORATION posted by Mark on 8/17/2002 at 1:06:49 AM
Mario, I think if you want the bike to be "original" you are gonna want to stay with original parts, and color. However you can do whatever you want to your own bike, you know? Change the brakes, color seat, bars etc....whatever you want. However it won't be "original" anymore. But, you might come up with a bike that makes you very happy, and that is COOL!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I NEED HELP FOR HUMBER RESTORATION posted by Warren on 8/17/2002 at 3:40:29 AM
I've got a very dark blue model from '54...bifurcated fork, white tip on rear fender

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Drake three speed posted by: Michelle on 8/16/2002 at 3:40:50 PM
I picked up this beautiful three speed Drake bicycle at a local thrift store for $5. I think that it was manufactured by an English company with factories in India, because the frame says "made in India" but most of the other parts say "made in England." The rear hub says "Sturmey Archer" then "69" and "14." Since it wasn't made in 1914, I think it was made in 1969. Anyways, I don't know anything about this company and I was wondering if it's worth anything. Also, some parts of the gold stripe have worn off, should I leave it that way or would it be allright to paint it back on? Thank you very much.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Drake three speed posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/16/2002 at 8:04:24 PM
Five Dollars? I have to get out to all these thrift stores!! An Anglo-Indian bike sounds intriguing. Value? Again, who knows but certainly 10 times what you paid even if not a "name" brand.

As for is it "alright" to repaint the gold lining or stripes, well I hope we never get into "right" and "wrong" with this FUN hobby. Repainting the lining is a major chore. I have had great results however using lining transfers or decals from Nick Lloyd Cycles (UK). These are water slide decals not those horrible vinyl ones and go on quite easily once you get the hang of it. Downside: cost. Sold in sheet of 4 stripes for £2.40, my '49 Rudge (admittedly a stripe crazy cycle with double lines on everything!) has consumed to date 12 sheets and I haven't even done the mudguards yet! But it looks wonderful. When I finish the task, I'll bore everyone with photos of her.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:  '69 Drake three speed- Lucky lady! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/19/2002 at 7:59:48 PM
Michelle should know that in my spot on the planet a thrift store will never a 3 speed English bike for sale. Not because of English bike loving vultures like me circling overhead but because of big, unseen forces at work in high up places.
A Drake, for 5.00 and at the thrift store?
Not in my area you wouldn't. They've been infilitrated, I tell you!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent fork posted by: David on 8/16/2002 at 1:55:09 PM
I'm considering swapping the components from one of the 64 Sports [below] to a taller frame of similar vintage. Unfortunately, the tall frame has a bent fork. (Frame fell from its hook in the cellar) One leg is pushed back about 1/2 inch from where it should be. I've thought of clamping the steerer, crown, and top of the leg to a solid surface and using a long pipe as a lever to bend it back. Is this an ok approach? Or should I engage a "professional" to do it?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent fork posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/16/2002 at 3:19:19 PM
David-- I thought the fork on my 1948 Raleigh was bent beyond hope. Took it to my regular cycle shop yesterday and was told "easy". Cost $15-20. And I like to keep the original. Rub: I thought I was being clever and removed the fork from the frame (a "first" for me!). Even managed to keep all the bearings etc. Then I felt like a real jerk when I was told NO: you have to rebend the fork when it's in the frame!! Duh! Well, now I can say I have overhauled my first headset when I reassemble and repack with fancy Phil Wood grease.

As for replacement forks, I guess they must vary in length in relation to the headtube. And the pre-1955 forks on Raleighs/Rudges/Humbers was indeed different in the shape of the fork ends.

It's been said on this Board that forks, at least on "our" type of bikes, were designed to be bent and, unbent. I am just amazed how many are damaged in shipment by our boys in brown.

So it seems easier and not much money to repair rather than replace. But what do I know? as my cycle repair guy likes to tell me!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent fork posted by Jeff R on 8/17/2002 at 1:26:39 AM
Don't use a pipe over the fork as it will put a dent in the leg where the pipe makes contact and it may bend the fender stay attatchment also.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   64 Raleigh serial numbers posted by: David on 8/16/2002 at 1:52:53 PM
I picked up a pretty good pair of 64 Raleigh Sports last night. I can't find their serial numbers - not on BB, seat lug, headset. ???

AGE / VALUE:   rims posted by: sam on 8/15/2002 at 8:19:26 PM
Alum.rims in 40x635!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   rims posted by David on 8/16/2002 at 3:43:21 AM

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   rims posted by sam on 8/16/2002 at 12:40:44 PM
Think of the possibilities.

AGE / VALUE:   Gorgeous His & Hers HERCULES bikes for sale posted by: Kevin C. on 8/15/2002 at 3:17:47 AM
For sale BUT MUST PICK UP IN LAFAYETTE, IND.: Mint pair of Hercules bikes from early 1950s; one man's, one woman's, 26 inch, black, all original, Hercumatic shifters, Hercules pedals, housed reflectors and Hercules saddles; cable brakes and extra-wide hockey stick chainguards. Perfect, chrome Miller headlights with generators, including one still in original box. One bike still has the illustrated promotional cardboard insert that was attached to it in the store, explaining how to shift the Hercumatic, with owner's manual attached, dated 1954. Price: $250 for the pair. These bikes are too nice to ship. Please email for more information.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gorgeous His & Hers HERCULES bikes for sale posted by chris on 8/15/2002 at 6:37:57 PM

The seller is a good guy too! It's Kevin C.! Our Kevin!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gorgeous His & Hers HERCULES bikes for sale posted by Richard on 8/16/2002 at 1:38:37 PM
If what I imagine, this is too good to pass up. If I buy the pair (if still available), How long will you give me to come get the bikes? Do they have steel fenders? Do they have racks or other extras? I look forward to your answers.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gorgeous His & Hers HERCULES bikes for sale posted by David on 8/16/2002 at 1:52:07 PM
Correct my ignorance please. What the heck is the Hercumatic? Is it wonderful?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gorgeous His & Hers HERCULES bikes for sale posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/17/2002 at 4:09:20 PM
The Hercumatic is the 3 speed shifter. It is a diffrent shape body and color and a longer "shifter flicker"

The Hercumatic may also referr to the actual hub which is a re-badged Sturmey- Archer A.W. 3 speed with a threaded driver and solid machined 3 speed innards.
Don't waste time waiting. Grab these and grab a lady pal (wife) Hopefully the wife is a lady pal! and go bike riding.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Matching Paint for Raleigh Green posted by: Bill Smith on 8/15/2002 at 3:04:02 AM
Thanks to all participants in this group for your many helpful comments.

For what it's worth I thought I'd pass along a restoration tip I've found useful.

An extremely close match for 1971-era Raleigh green (so close that you can't tell any difference unless it's pointed out to you and even then it's hard to discern) may be obtained by using the 1973 Ford auto paint "Bright Lime Gold Metallic."

I used Dupont Centari acrylic enamel in this color for a couple of Presstube Minor rear racks for my '71 men's Raleigh Sports and '71 ladies' Superbe. One was originally the coppertone/gold color Raleigh used on some of its later 70's models; the other was pretty badly rusted. Had both sandblasted and painted using the above paint and the result is a match close enough to pass for original.

One caution: it seems to me that the Raleigh green used for mid- to late-70's era models (think of those with the stylized "R" on the downtube) was a darker, more "pine" green color, which I do not think the '73 Ford Bright Lime Gold Metallic would match well.

Hard to believe the color of a '73 Ford Pinto, which many of us will remember only too well, matches our Nottingham classics, but it has worked for me!

Am posting this also on the "Roll Britannia" Yahoo group.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Matching Paint for Raleigh Green posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/16/2002 at 2:53:46 AM
Bill-- thanks for sharing this. This is one of those common but hard colours to match. Now we just need to find that "Coffee" colour and the old dark Raleigh green, Rudge maroon and Humber blue!

By the way, Bill has posted pix of his Sports and Superbe on "Roll Britannia".

But did it have to be Pinto paint, Bob? At least Hillman Minx or Rover 2000 please!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Matching Paint for Raleigh Green posted by Stacey on 8/16/2002 at 3:26:27 PM
If it helps at all... think of it as "Ditzler 2406"


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Matching Paint for Raleigh Green posted by Chris on 8/19/2002 at 7:13:07 PM
I saw a bike at a swap meet once that was re-painted in a Raleigh Bronze green like color. It was very, very close. I got up real close and stared in silence. My friend was saying "It's original." I said "No, it's not." Close but not exact. The seller asked "How do you know that?" in a miffed tone. I smiled, he grinned and said " It was indeed a project of his." It was so slightly off that nobody else would notice. Some of us would be believing it's original and some would say it was not right. This can be close but not perfect and then you can hit it up with an exact match except I have not heard of it being done with this exact shade of paint, not yet.
Find a painter who knows his or her way around and they'll have the computer equipment needed (or be able to get it) to spectrograph it or whatever you call it with paint.
I don't know what you are mentioning here, as I have not seen it in person, but probably you guys have it copied exactly. The oldroads guys/gals are pretty sharp with exception of myself who is getting duller ever day.
Oh, Humber blue!

I'll take a look at his bike at Roll Britrania and comment.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Black enameled lamp brackets posted by: David Poston on 8/14/2002 at 6:33:20 PM
What era do these date from? I kind of like the black enameled stuff (e.g. on headlamps, etc.).


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Black enameled lamp brackets posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/14/2002 at 7:34:19 PM
David: you'll have to get an air raid warden's uniform if you like all this 'black out' stuff: this lamp bracket and other black enamelled fitments that normally would be chrome date from the Second World War and just after. Some cycles had black enamelled rod brake bits well into the 50s. I've seen a Rudge and a Raleigh totally in 'black out' and they are rather handsome, a proto Darth Vader look. The handlebars, cranks, rod brake bits and rims were chemically blackened steel. And the lamp had the black-out mask over the lens except for a thin slit. White 'black out' bands on the lower portions of both the rear and front mudguards. God knows what the tyres were made of then with the rubber shortages: Marmite jar crust or something.

P.C. Kohler, looking for a Heron's Crest lamp bracket in chrome for my newest acquisition

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Black enameled lamp brackets posted by Ed on 8/14/2002 at 8:41:26 PM
The black bracket: Ebay item # 2131005792 can be chrome plated (quadruple plated by a reputable plater)and it would come out of the tank as pretty as a brand new one. I have seen it done. Good luck on your search.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Black enameled lamp brackets posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/15/2002 at 12:52:05 AM
Funny how it happens: I ask what wartime cycle tyres were like. Then I go home and continue the initial restoration of my newly acquired 1948 Raleigh. Guess what? The rear tyre is a Dunlop 'Champion' labelled 'WAR GRADE'! Three years after V-E day, they will still using these. But hey, it must have been a pretty good tyre as it lasted the active life of this machine (which has an expired Ann Arbor MI cycle license dated 1960).

Other possible wartime fitments on this machine: a lovely chainwheel in a matt steel finish and something I've not seen before: the Heron's Heads has the neatest eyes! It's kinda disconcerting to be watched whilst working like this... but the effort I'm putting into this, I think I deserve a wink or two.

P.C. Kohler

FOR SALE:   Raleigh Bikes for sale posted by: Pravin on 8/14/2002 at 5:40:27 PM
Hello there,

I have a couple of bikes for sale, if anyone is interested (preferably from the Houston area so that s/he can pick up the bicycle and I don't have to pack it). I was considering selling it through eBay (sellername: cheapcharlies)... but I thought this would be quicker. I will accept the best offer... will wait until Sunday.

1. 1969 Raleigh Folder Twenty
Green. Has painted mudguards (standard for this model year). very good condition... some items replaced such as grips and brakes, SA trigger, 90% decals intact. Problem with front mudguard (bent/rubs against the front tire).

2. 1960/late 50s Men's Raleigh Sport/ Raleigh Superbe?
This is a Black Raleigh Sport with a Dynohub, both lights, rear rack (with all these extras, it seems more like a Superbe). Hockey-stick style chainguard. Missing rear reflector as well as screw for headlight, and one nut for front dynohub. Nice Brooks saddle. Decals 80%-90% intact... Really classic-looking bike. I would rate it as being 8.5/10 as far as condition is concerned.


   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh Bikes for sale posted by pravin on 8/14/2002 at 7:50:32 PM
I forgot to mention a couple of other things... the Superbe/Sports has the original pump included... 'tall frame' style. Also, although everything seems intact and in great shape, the lights currently do not work; so you may have to tinker with it a little. Feel free to ask any questions.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help with S/A rebuild and.. posted by: Brian Geoffrey on 8/14/2002 at 4:53:09 PM
Looking for personal references on who is recommended to restore a late '40's Brooks B66, a rebuild of a '50's Sturmey Archer 3spd, and a '50's GH-6 front Dynohub. I'm looking for enclosed chaincases (who isn't!) for my '63 woman's DL-1, and a 50's (26" rims) Humber. Hooray for English steel and lugged frames!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help with S/A rebuild and.. posted by Bill Putnam on 8/15/2002 at 3:58:53 PM
The Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed is easy to rebuild. Repair manuals are available on line,see http://www.toehead.demon.co.uk/stmain.htm
and http://www.sheldonbrown.com/oldbikes/index.html
for a comprehensive discussion on Sturmey Archer hubs. If your Dynohub magnet needs remagnetizing, Eric Hjertberg has a magnetizer and can do the job:

Eric Hjertberg
763 College Avenue
Menlo Park, CA 94025

Eric wrote me a while back "I have remagnetized hundreds of
hubs. I charge $30 plus postage if you send me just the magnet and a keeper (can be its own armature). We had many happy years of trimming and drilling the axle of a front dyno, spacing out to 100mm, hanging a lamp bracket off
the axle, and lacing it to a lightweight rim. That way our racing bikes could do winter commuting. It kept us busy back in the '70's."

Good luck with your restoration,


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Roadster from 1925 posted by: Peter on 8/14/2002 at 2:53:38 PM
Hallo there everybody. I have bought a Raleigh Roadster 3speed that has the frame number of A 022819. I assume that it is from 1925. It is a little rusty but it is almost intact. The rear brake needs to be fixed, it is no pump on it and tires are not original. Otherwise it is original, even the lights are working, gears are good and so on.
What is really the value of an object like this. I might go ahead and sell it but it depends. If it is a real classic I want it myself I guess.
Can anyone please help me?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   New Swedish roadsters posted by: David on 8/14/2002 at 1:32:56 PM
Kronan bikes from Sweden, which have been advertised extensively in the Metro paper (given away on the subway and buses) in Boston, are starting to appear on the streets. They look so plain and utilitarian they must be related to army bikes. Check em out: www.kronancycle.com

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by: Sherri Tutor on 8/14/2002 at 1:06:44 PM
Purchased a Dunelt 26" Lightweight Ladies Bike at a Thrift Store yesterday for $20.00. But I have a few questions regarding the bike. It has one of those Sturmy Archer Speed things that has the 65 6 on it so I am assuming that the bike was made in June 1965 ( It that correct). I took the bike home pumped up the tires and cleaned it up . The chrome on the handle bars and wheels looks really good and shiny. It has a seat mad by Wright and a light made by Miller with the generator. DOES anyone know where to get replacement bulb for these or should I even expect this light to work? It rides really well and everything except the light works. I thing I am really going to enjoy riding this bike but I would like any info that I could get on this bike as well as the accessory pieces. Also, does anyone know what the value of a bike like this is. I am sure more than the $ 20.00 I paid. Thanks for any info on the bike and lights.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/14/2002 at 4:38:18 PM
Sherri, welcome to the English cycle fraternity (or sorority perhaps)!

Dunelts are excellent bikes and at $20 you got yourself a bonafide bargain. And yes, doesn't the chrome and paint on these things shine up with a little elbow grease! Value? Too subjective but I'd guess at least five times what you paid.

I'd wager your Miller (an quality British made set as well) dynamo works just fine; replacement bulbs should be available from any cycle shop or hardware store. Just bring the original and match.

Enjoy "Riding Awheel on Sheffield Steel" (which your Dunelt should have on the top tube)..

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/14/2002 at 7:20:00 PM
The company is called: Reflectalite. if you type that in here under search you will hopefully find it mentionerd in past posts here. Or type in Reflectalite under a search engine and find the company 's address in England. They will have a replacement bulb and in Halogen too. Good Luck

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by David on 8/14/2002 at 7:52:22 PM

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by geo on 8/15/2002 at 2:00:55 AM
Congrats on a great find. Ladies bikes are usually less expensive($20 is an excellent deal to me). I usually part out ladies bikes because no one seems to want them but lately it has become painful to do so. I would like to see more women get into this hobby and start riding some of these beautiful bikes(ladies models are also generally in much better condition because they usually took better care of them than men). A British ladies bike is an elegant ride and I hope you enjoy it. They are way cooler bikes than the high tech junk of today. Good luck. ps(65 6 indicates the date the Sturmey Archer was built so generally speaking your bike is usually with in that range.)

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dunelt Bicycle posted by Sandy on 12/20/2006 at 6:20:07 PM
My son likes to restore bicycles. He recently came home with a Dunelt tricycle, 3 speed. Has a little rust here and there, but everything works. It has the basket mounted on the back. Any idea if these are rare or a value? He paid $20.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A Pig in a Poke? posted by: P.C. Kohler on 8/14/2002 at 12:29:12 AM
Should one bid on a eBay bike based on two really tiny, really bad photos? Maybe. Maybe not.

She was advertised as a 1960 Raleigh. 23" frame, 26" wheels. Enclosed gearcase. Rod brakes. So intriguing! Described as "very ridable". OK... so she cost me "only" $127 (cheap given a day earlier a similar machine fetched $550.

Anyway she arrived today. Her bits and pieces all over the living room. My cat cannot believe there's another bike in this apartment.

The good news: she lied about her age. She dates from July 1948. Nice gearcase with the fancy script logo. Those really old style fork rod brake guides with the cutouts. A cool Dunlop "Bates" rubber loopspring saddle. A fabulous old Sturmey Archer trigger with black/silver face and the LONG flicker.

The bad news: the fork is BENT. I mean really bent (right side) backwards and inwards. Ouch. How, I don't know. Nicely packed. No visible damage to the carton. If someone can fix this, they are good. Did I mention she's from Ann Arbor, Michigan? Even has the 1948 license. Forget that; it's the rust, RUST that proves shes from Michigan. The front rim (so old it's a 26" Westwood) is rusted beyond hope, the rear Westrick is marginal. Paint poor. Transfers still there such as they are: "The All Steel Bicycle" on the seat tube is "it" except the gearcase and lining. Amazing the red lining has held up better than anything else. Cranks rusted. Mudguards ditto.

But here she sits, in rusty, dirty pieces, and I can hear faintly: "Don't part me out... please..." IF I can get that fork fixed and find two usable Westrick rims.... heck I think I'll keep her and make her an advertisement for rubbing compound and Barkeeper's Friend.

So no pig in a poke, just Raleigh serial no. 47820AJ in need of some major TLC and Sheffield Steel bending.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A Pig in a Poke? posted by geo on 8/14/2002 at 2:37:44 AM
P.C. I might be able to help. I bought what looked like a 1968 or so 23" Sports awhile back. Real beater, no fenders, attractive decorative foil(peeling) tape on seat tube. Strange thing was it had Westricks and a SA dated 50. Thought it was a crime to ride it around anymore with an old drivetrain so took it off and replaced it with an 87. I don't have any plans for it because frankly anything pre 1960 is usually out of my price range(or what I'm willing to spend). Wheels will need truing(sic) and a couple of spokes but very ridable, I had been riding on them a year or so. If your interested drop me a line. Geo

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A Pig in a Poke? posted by Chris on 8/14/2002 at 7:16:53 PM
You say 1948, does this mean she has stainless steel spokes with little r's on the spoke heads? You just might!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A Pig in a Poke? posted by smg on 8/14/2002 at 7:58:28 PM
It seems like there's usually somebody trying to sell a Raleigh locking fork on eBay. Re. the rust: As a former Michigander I'd be worried about the state of the bottom bracket threads from those salty winters. I once had a bottom bracket rot out its threads so badly the cups wouldn't stay in. On another occasion, some weird combination of corrosion and wear caused a couple of the ball bearings to become square!