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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Mavic Module 4 's with eyelets and 26 X 1 3/8 tires posted by: Chris on 9/3/2002 at 11:41:51 PM
The magical rims are: Mavic Module 4
alloy, with eyelets and a strange construction almost fooled me into thinking they are for some small size of tubular. But No! These are for and take a tire that just happens to be the 28 X 1 3/8 tire! Kenda or whatever as long as it's high pressure gumwall. This bike came alive and I rode down the street going "Oh, Yea, Oh yea!" Now I don't say "Oh yea," all that much these days. Thse are the rims that when we pulled them down out of the shop attic the fellow said "You aren't gonna sell those to Chris, are you?" Like one of the other customers was more worthy. I marked these in my head as something to be ridden and looked into soon.
So anyways, the hunt is on for Mavic Module 4 rims in 26 X 1 3/8's It won't be easy to find another set of these, I'm afraid. Regular alloy rims in this size, yes. But these? I dunno right now.Wish me luck!
Should I succeed in getting this n.o.s. A.C. hub pried away from a good friend and actually get it here, where I can run my grubby little paws all over it? I'll do a transplant and have this hub in this rear rim. My heart jumps with anticipation! I can just hear the guy asking me "Where did you get that rare A.C. hub for that? He'll think oh, it's just a A.W.! until he looks at the hub's designation!

AGE / VALUE:   Old Green Hercules reborn- Kitt Scratch out! posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 9/3/2002 at 11:09:00 PM
I saw it and screamed out "One Hundred dollars!"
It was mine!
Ah Ha!
Done deal. Was it worth it? Probably not, probably not more than 50.00.

Well, it has this thick aluminum H headbadge and that alone did it. With an enclosed chaincase and rod brakes, I bit, and quickly too. I pressed my number on him and jumped on the bike all grins. He's looked at me as bit puzzled. "It's just an old bike, Chris" I wanted to take off and go for a fly except, except that those days were over for this bike. Unless I was going to re-build it and the yes, one day.
Tires, flat, wires, handing, gears not in sync.
I didn't even look it over for defects. Just snapped it up. I know better.
Well, it's been sitting awhile. I had it all torn apart awaiting a paint job/re-doing/ restoration. That has not happened yet. I took the frame in my hands and got out the bottle of Kitt Scratch Out and daubed it all over than rubbed like all get out. Slowly it came back, the paint underwent an incredible change. It looks very close to new shape. There are spots where the paint is gone, rust and scratches and imperfections. Spots that would have been filled in and such.
Still, I went all over that frame, it did not hurt the decals and the pinstriping /box lining was already gone so it was not an issue. Then the enclosed chaincase, and front fork. This was all done with a ongoing battle inside me to have it re-painted or to try to see how nice it can come back. Well, it has come back so unexpectedly nice and lustreous green that I am gonna ride it and not do a re- paint. I have Hercules new rod brake handlebars, and a new set of re-chromed rims and once I grit my teeth and get past the terrible fact that I don't have the proper original green Hercules Mudguards and I put something else on it's gonna be back on the road. The Hercules rims the rod brake rims for this bike were wonderful! They more are narrow of a 26 X 1 3/8 rim and with gumwall tires they are fast. These steel rims with those Kenda gumwall tires and a four speed hub and I'm all over the neighborhood grinning like a nut!

With some of the rod brake hardware they sell here with some of my existing stuff, I'm gonna be good to go. Box lining/pinstripe is strange as it's all worn off. a shadow of it there today. It was gold and red or just gold perhaps and back in the day the bike looked grande I am sure. Helpful when I will re- apply if I want to. The light is flatglass and green in color. Yes, this has a dynohub. It hurt to see every rust spot/ every dent/ every scratch on this bike. I have other projects more worthy of the painter than this one I hate to say it. This shade of green is more sharp that any shade of green I am seeing on the cars as I roll by. It's Forest green enamel or something. My interests are heading into Phillips and Hercules at least for a while.
If you have a bike that does not have it's box lining/ decals/ pinstripes and you want to bring it back, try Kitt Scrtatch out and a box of old socks and you'll be amazed.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brake pads for cable brakes posted by: David Poston on 9/3/2002 at 9:04:30 PM
I have a box of NOS Fibrax 269? brake pads. The box reads, "for all makes of cycles." Are these for cable-operated brakes? How do I install them?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brake pads for cable brakes posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 9/3/2002 at 11:07:43 PM
Now look, if you go a quoting numbers like that I'll have to look this up and get back to you. And here I was gonna wing it from memory.

The rod brake model # was SH70 so without looking into the magic book I'll say that these are for cable brakes.
I'll post tommorrow!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brake pads for cable brakes posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 9/4/2002 at 12:45:05 AM
What do ya mean "How do I install them? Oh, No... Don't tell me these came to you without the metal holders. You carefully prise the metal end back and get these out and get the new pads back in and fold up the metal edge.
Without breaking the metal end off and causing metal fatigue.
If these are for cable brakes you can go with a modern set like the current Scott/ Mathauser salmon/ Kool Stop type but you are wanting originality perhaps? and that's fine but with brake performance and safety it is more important.
See Sheldon Browns hugemongeous web page about brakes and get back to us here.

If these are not rod brake shoes I would not be fooling with putting shoes in holders.
A brake shoe can move back and forth and go sliding out
ZOOM and then you have a brake related failure that is not pretty. We don't replace brake "blocks" and re- use metal holders today in the bike world. You buy the whole thing and be done with it.

Can somebody else here help him with this? Don't leave him all alone with me here! Not about brakes!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brake pads for cable brakes posted by Chris on 9/4/2002 at 4:40:42 PM
For cable operated brakes. But, they may work with rod brakes like the Phillips type rod brake shoes but I'll say cable type primarily. The book does not tell this it just shows the whole range. If you e- mail a postal address I'll copy and send the sheet to you free.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: dafydd on 9/2/2002 at 5:36:17 PM
OK, time for another hopefully colorful thread. Who here has modified their three speeds? My daily rider, which was nothing special to begin with, save for being in decent shape, now has alloy wheels w/ a dynohub (no lights, looking for a nice set) and MKS tourist pedals (much nicer than the originals and not too otherworldly for the bike). Occassionaly think about going cotterless, but man, I love that heron chainring! My Humber is simply too neat to modernize. Might switch to a four speed hub, if I ever get around to truing the wheel...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/2/2002 at 11:00:01 PM
After completing the re-building of my Superbe, I had a garage full of parts, and I was also afraid to take the Superbe to the corner store, so...My "Franken-bike" started off as a decent 50's Sports, Burgundy paint all faded, but the decals in nice shape. On went Shimano Mnt bike cranks and a new axle with the original 26 tpi cups. The front wheel was a 36 spoke Raleigh rim and dyno-hub ('72) that needed alot of work. (great stuff, Oxalic acid, couldn't have rescued that dyno without it). The original caliper brakes flexed too much, so I stuck in an ancient Shimano "Tourney" centerpull on the front, and put in one of those Weinmann "easy adjust" black plastic knob cable adjusters on the Raleigh Heron bracket. The rear wheel, now that is a piece of work. It's a 40 spoke Raleigh rim, in bad shape--still round, but will never, ever run true. It houses a 1958 FG hub, except the hub's Dyno had a dead magnet. I rousted up a S.A. rear drum brake face plate, stuck it in the dyno's cavity, and it fit! Technically it would be called an FB, I guess. I then stuck on two Hyper-glide sprockets on the FG's driver, and with some fiddling, got a Huret Allvit derailleur on the drop-out. I don't ever want to think about getting a flat, removing that wheel is a job! A new Tiawanese 7 speed chain, trimmed the hockey-stick chainguard a bit, and a battered up Sun-tour bar con shifter stuffed into the original handlebars. Got a real beat up B66 saddle, leather was toast but the chassis was very nice, chrome perfect. So I popped the rivets from a serviceable B72, and mounted the leather onto the B66 with new copper rivets. New cables and housing and a Cat-eye rear reflector. The headlight is a German Union, I think, but with a new Reflectalite bulb. I had to use old Shimano cable guides for the derailleur and brake cables, and various other bits and pieces. Actually I'd like to convert the FG to a five speed, but I think I'd have too many cables running all over the place. Is this sacrilage? Don't know, and I don't care. Was it fun? Yep. Will any one else other than me ride it? Not yet, any way

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Stacey on 9/2/2002 at 11:01:31 PM
Nothing better to do on a dreary September afternoon, I might as well start the ante with my chip. LOL

I feel that a bicycle is a tool. This tool can be single purpose or multi-purpose, but the core purpose of any bicycle is to move people. As with any tool, it should do this as efficently as possible... the most work with the least effort. I like a bike as light and responsive as possible without the sacrifice of comfort. Not that I need to chase that elusive 1/10 of a gram with titanium fastners and tubular tires, but I'm a big proponent of alloy wheels. They are far lighter than their plated steel counter parts and deliver a far superior ride... not to mention the fact that they don't rust! IMHO it's the best ROI that you can get on a bike.

If you prefer an alloy brake set (benefit... quick release options) over the stock plated steel units, by all means change them. If you want to play with steering stems of varying angles or lengths & heights, go for it.

Bicycles when designed and built for the masses target the apex of the bellcurve, in other words the 'average' person. Who among us likes to be thought of as average? Hummm. Why then ride the average persons bike? Customize, accessorize, personalize... make it fit you, make it work for you, make it more comfortable and efficent. Of course, I do recomend you save all the original items and do nothing that can't be undone should you at some point like to recoup your investment.

My only contraindication to this would be for a HIGHLY collectable bike that should be in a museum or a living room wall.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/2/2002 at 11:04:31 PM
Modifications? Well for me, that's limited to replacing the painted on lining with transfers, agonising over not having Dunlop replacement tyres and having to use foreign ones and running out of Lucas or Sturmey-Archer marked bulbs.

I guess what I'm saying is that I like these machines as a "total package"; I love 'em the way the left Nottingham. Sure cycle design and manufacture has "progressed" since then. Well not to me! Perfect. Ageless. Timeless. Components, fitments and accessories all "period". Even make the effort when adding a dynothree hub to my '48 Raleigh to get one of the same year or close. Found a NOS all steel SA gear pulley to replace the rusted original on my '49 Rudge. Replaced a later era SA dynohub lamp with a NOS period one on the same bike. Not to be picky or fussy, just because to me it looks and feels "right" somehow. I no more want to see modern geegaws on a classic '48 Raleigh than I want to see solar panels and a satellite dish atop Castle Howard.

But I admit I the tyres on my machines are pumped up with 2002 not 1948 air. I hate that.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by dafydd on 9/2/2002 at 11:42:56 PM
I do have to admit that there is something almost magical about the period-correct machine, Peter. The closest, and really not far off, analogy is that of car buffs who earn bragging rights with all-steel bodywork. My father has told me at the bigger judged events, cars are examined down to mundane items such as hose clamps. You help preserve a important part of transportation history, and I for one certainly appreciate it.

On the other hand, old technology begets new technology, and it shouldn't necesarily be scorned... I've been hoping to find decent alloy sidepulls to replace the flexy steel originals. I had a glimmer of hope with standard-reach Shimano 600s, but their upper limit seems to barely make the lower limit of the steel ones. Is there a sidepull out there with good stopping power and good looks?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/3/2002 at 2:52:43 PM
Dafydd, use those great 600 brakes. You just gotta lengthen them. Find a crappy pair of brakes,take a hacksaw, and cut off the "loop" or the oval circle that you would normally bolt the shoes on to. Bolt these onto your 600 brakes, and bolt the shoes to the lengtheners. I had to do this for my RSW. If you want a nice job, you can file the "lengtheners" so they won't move, similar to a woodworker's shiplap joint. I didn't think of this idea of lengthening brake arms untill I came across a wrecked Peugeot with a 26'' wheel in the front last year. The owner had lengthened his Mafac racer brake with what appeared to be 11/2" angle irons that were straitened in a vice and bolted onto the brake arms.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by dave on 9/3/2002 at 2:55:10 PM
My project (still a work in progress) was an old beatup Hercules mens frame which I cleaned and painted. It needed a better bottom bracket so I put one from a Raleigh on it then tried to lighten it up with alloy seat post, stem and curved alloy bars, Weinmann alloy side pulls from an old Schwinn and MTB levers. Then came Zefal fenders, wing nuts for the front wheel and a 5 speed SA hub for the rear. Shifters are Campy downtube which don't (yet) work well for the right side (and may never). Saddle is a very nice old, well broken in Wrights leather. Gold colored alloy pedals.

The web site of the Broadway Bicycle School in Cambridge Mass has some interesting things on it. They use the frame and replace virtually everything else to make commuter bikes.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by ken on 9/3/2002 at 5:21:59 PM
My hot rod is a 63 Flightliner frame, chrome, with a Shimano 3-speed coaster and twist-grip shift control. Alloy rims, of course, and alloy bars and stem. I put a 'lucky seven' chainring (39T?) on it to make the ratios suit me better. Want to see a picture? email me.

   Retrofitting posted by David Poston on 9/3/2002 at 5:44:14 PM
I am not such a stickler as Peter is on period-accuracy, but I admire him for it. I take a different approach than most, however. I try to get my parts and fitments BEFORE the year the cycle was made, particularly since most of my cycles are from the 1970's. Right now I am in the process of retrofitting my pair of late 70's DL-1's to something old, at least pre-war standards. Old 70's decals, reflectors, saddle had to go. Adding all-white tyres (hopefully), full chaincase, new SA trigger, etc. In my case you might say I wish I had 1910 air to pump up my tyres instead of 1948 air in Peter's case.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Dale on 9/5/2002 at 2:17:46 AM
Before you could buy such a thing as a 'city bike' (ca. 1981) I made one. I started with a 25" Raleigh Grand Prix frame. I added an alloy AW with 21/24 derailleur outside, GH6 in front, long SR cranks, alloy post, B66, flat alloy bars, 27 x 1 3/8 tires on alloy rims (yes I found alloy 32 and 40 hole rims).

My objective was to make a reliable commuter, but the first time I rode it, I said, "Damn, this is comfortable!"

But I'm still most of the way to putting all 1969 stuff on the Superbe, even though it's almost a daily rider.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Fred on 9/5/2002 at 3:37:13 AM
Absolute authenticity is virtually impossible to attain, but one can strive for it. I have done my share of modifying bicycles for better efficiency and comfort, but at heart I am a restorer and a keeper of originality. Its much more difficult to maintain maximum originality than to modify. If it was easy, every one would be doing it. Modification is so easy, get out the catalogs,look through your old parts stash, and you are halfway home. I know how difficult it is to find good authentic parts, but the reward is so sweet when you find them. None to be had, use the best substitute available and keep your eye out for the real thing. Make the part if possible. Use a repro part if available. Not interested in authenticity, then modify, but not good bikes of significance. I have some tattered but complete Raleigh made bikes. I will not cannibalize them or modify them in anyway. I am saving them for the day when all the good bikes are gone and someone will want them. Restore as best you can and endeavor to persevere.

AGE / VALUE:   Helmets and Burgundy posted by: Peter on 9/2/2002 at 8:14:48 AM
I always wear a helmet now....my 6 year old son's logic meant I had to...'Daddy, how come grown-ups are allowed to be so naughty they can ride without a helmet?'.
Someone was asking about a burgundy paint finish a while ago. In the 1955 Raleigh catalogue is listed 'Polychrome Rich Burgundy' as a colour for the Dawn, with 19 1/2" frame. The Sports Light Roadster was available in 'Flamboyant Royal Carmine' - they knew how to name a colour in those days.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Helmets and Burgundy posted by Mike on 9/2/2002 at 9:08:38 PM
If you feel better wear a vintage helmet, but wear one. In '96 my Raleigh and I got hit by a car, NO HELMET....concussion with 18 stitches in the head! Felt like I fell of a 3 story building. My DL1 was only good for parts after this crash, but at least the cop had the heart to leave it at my door step while the ambulance took me to the hospital.

AGE / VALUE:   Colorful people served on the board posted by: Chris on 8/31/2002 at 8:28:19 PM
"....Major- General Sir Francis de Guingand, a director of Tube Investments."

With all the important things T.I. must have been into, a Major- General on the board probably was a wise idea.

FOR SALE:   Raleigh tandem on eBay posted by: P.C. Kohler on 8/31/2002 at 2:26:33 PM
Don't see too many of these offered:


But she's in lovely Dorset and us North Americans, that's a real dilemma: just how does one ship a tandem?!

And when did Raleigh stop making tandems? I don't see any in any post-war catalogues I have.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh tandem on eBay posted by Mark R. on 8/31/2002 at 5:18:18 PM
PC, that is a home made tandem, not something that was sold by raleigh.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh tandem on eBay posted by Chris on 8/31/2002 at 8:26:48 PM
Hey, stainless steel rims!
I wonder if this possibly/probably home made/ after market/ shop/ machinist project is 531 frame tubing material.

I mean, look at the rear dropout on the one picture.
( Hummed to the theme song from Mr. Rogers neighborhood)
It's a strange but interesting day in the neighborhood, an interesting day to be strangers . Will this be yours?, will you place a bid? Do you want this tandem?

No this is not a real Raleigh tandem, but keep looking as they are out there.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh tandem on eBay posted by sam on 9/3/2002 at 1:18:56 AM
Wish I could point you toward a real raleigh tandem(made in England) but Raleigh has one offered on line where ever they build them at???Your guess is as good as mine.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh tandem on eBay posted by Dale on 9/5/2002 at 2:20:15 AM
Here in the states, you can't ship a tandem by UPS or other carrier because it's too big, but you can ship it by Amtrak.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: geo on 8/31/2002 at 1:10:22 AM
Just wondering how many of us british roadster types actually wear a helmet when riding. I do, however I've always wondered if helmets weren't "period" enough for some. I'm not making judgements, I'm just curious. Geo

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by dafydd on 8/31/2002 at 1:24:41 AM
I pretty much always wear a helmet, regardless of what I'm riding or how far. This comes from the experience of A) running down a ped on my road bike (and realizing how easily it could be a car doing the same to me), and B) the traumatizing experience of seeing a friend in convulsions after hitting a stone wall on a curvey 35-mph descent. Helmets are surely not period but certainly smart.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/31/2002 at 2:16:15 AM
Good question.

Never wear a helmet.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Max M. on 8/31/2002 at 3:26:41 AM
Wear a HELMET Peter!
Being "period" has little meaning when you are lying on your back in the middle of an intersection of Pennsylvania Avenue in a lot of pain and a puddle of blood. My helmet saved my life.
The learning curve on this issue can be quite tragic. Listen to the wisdom of others.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by geo on 8/31/2002 at 4:00:24 AM
Hey PC, Why don't you wear a helmet. I know why I and others do. Curious as to why alot of people don't. I finally got a friend of mine to wear one after he bought helmets for his kids and I guilted him into wearing one. We didn't really have them when I was a kid so I started wearing one in the late 80's after another friend of mine haranged me about wearing one until I finally gave in. I'm don't believe in helmet and seatbelt laws, that's a persons own choice and generally speaking it will only affect the individual(aside from the affect on friends and loved ones). I am curious why one wouldn't though. Thanks, Geo

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/31/2002 at 4:21:23 AM
Why? Well it makes cycling into some harsh, angry, defensive and yucky. Them vs. us. Sail through red lights, no laws apply to me stuff. No one in Europe or elsewhere seems to wear the damn things. And they look just AWFUL. Maybe if someone can design a helmet that doesn't make the wearer look like some wacked out insect from "Starship Troopers". Like everything associated with "contemporary" cycling, they look ugly, hostile and silly. As for mandatory laws re. helmets, just don't get me started: leave me the hell alone! I obey ALL the rules of the road which 99.8 per cent of cyclists do not; may not prevent me from being hit by those that don't (I am imperilled far more by idiot helmet wearing, irresponsible cyclists than motorists), but there you have it.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by geo on 8/31/2002 at 11:53:51 AM
That answers my question. Like I said I agree with you about mandatory helmet laws. I am a careful rider and obey the rules of the road as it applies to cyclists(some differences here in Massachusetts, for instance cyclists are allowed to ride on sidewalks if they choose as long as deference is given to pedestrians, although I prefer the road) despite the fact that I wear a helmet. And it is tough to find one that's not to goofy.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Max M. on 8/31/2002 at 5:25:45 PM
Goofy.. yes.
Starship Troopers...sure but that was a fun movie :-)
Lifesaver.. DEFINATELY.

I obey the laws, I ride on the street but accidents happen. Helmets save lives regardless of the continent.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Mark R. on 8/31/2002 at 5:26:22 PM
I always wear a helmet when I ride my road racing bike, but never when I ride my roadster. Sometimes you just have to trust fate. I have never had a problem, ever, however I know darn well that I COULD whack my head. The kind of accident that I imagine I'd have is a "car versus bike", and I imagine I'd be toast with or without. It's a personal choice thing, right or wrong. If the law doesn't compel you to wear a helmet, and you don't always do it, so what? Ask Chris from San Francisco, he got ran over by a car that crushed his legs (he recovered, one leg is shorter than the other), the helmet made no difference.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by James P. on 8/31/2002 at 7:29:53 PM
I don't wear a helmet, never have. No goggles, either, though there's always a chance of getting bee in the eye.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Chris on 8/31/2002 at 8:38:20 PM
James would probably look so suave and debonaire with that eye patch anyways. Don't swallow the bee while driving the 18 wheeler, please.

Helmets? Oh yes. Not much of a debate there with me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by dafydd on 9/1/2002 at 1:12:29 AM
I don't think helmets create a renegade attitude at all. Quite the opposite, really: I think you'll find that those cyclists who wear helmets voluntarily are are those who are also the most conscious of traffic around them and the local laws. People who are willing drop a few dollars on something that admittedly makes you look goofy and ruin your 'do for safety's sake don't strike me as the Roadster Rebel without a Cause type. And as somebody else pointed out, being a conscious rider won't save your helmetless self if you're t-boned by somebody else blowing a light.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Oscar on 9/1/2002 at 3:03:01 AM
It took 10 years of riding as an adult to finally get a helmet. No dramatic crash stories. It was my wife who made me wear one. Some choices are just not yours.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by MLAnderson on 9/1/2002 at 4:45:48 AM
From a public health perspective, one can argue that not wearing a helmet saves lives. In Australia, where there is (was?) a national law requiring helmets for all riders, bicycle riding declined significantly after the passage of the 1990 legislation with the result that fewer people chose to bicycle since they perceived cycling as a fairly dangerous activity. Also, there was not always a correspponding decrease in head injuries. As David Perry points out in his book Bike Cult, "the risk of head injury actually increased for the remaining cyclists, as roads generally without cyclists can be more dangerous for the few remaining cyclists". I sometimes wear a helmet, but I always support ALL cyclists in traffic (lawless, helmetless, or otherwise) since every cyclist in traffic potentially makes the road safer for every other cyclist. Policing the behavior of cyclists in traffic almost defers to the privilege of automobiles whose ubiquity since mid-century has provided the necessity for the majority of our present-day traffic regulations. Anyway, an interesting topic. As always, I've enjoyed the responses.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/1/2002 at 6:06:09 AM
I started wearing one in the late 80's when Bell and those guys actually started to make helmets designed for cyclists. I even stuck with helmets during my stint in Singapore--inspite of the heat and humidity. The drivers there reinforced my faith in helmets...Actually I found the only place there (S'pore) I could ride without playing leapfrog with the double deckers or banging on Taxi's doors was the service road around Changi airport, about a 10 km circuit. I still wear 'em here, even when I take my RSW 16 and my kids with their bikes out to the parks. Helmets are the owner's reflection of how much he/she respects their most precious organ--the brain.

   Aesthetics is everything posted by David Poston on 9/1/2002 at 8:39:02 AM
Helmets, helmets...

Well, I must say I am with P.C. on this one. He beat me to it. Bicycle helmets are simply just too "yucky," as he put it, to wear. Aesthetically, they are at odds with the grace of an English roadster. A blatant piece of plastic that looks more like an exoskeleton or a brain than a piece of cycling equipment, contemporary helmets follow the current trend in bicycles today--reckless and brash, all about hype, "performance," and technology, nothing about looks or form. The human being is reduced to a mere mechanical object which needs another part, a piece of plastic to put on its head to plowing about with like a bulldozer. But don't I care about my safety? Of course I do. It's just a travesty that our society no longer values elegance or class, it reduces everything to the bare essentials, a savagery of function without form, all mechanical parts laid bare, a monstrosity of colors...I could go on and on.

But don't I care about my safety? Of course I do. Were I to travel long distances on my bike, I would probably grimace and put a helmet on. I just wish they would consider making something less obtrusive, less horrid. Do they really think all of us like to go around in tight spandex shorts and flourescent colored shirts like a bunch of clowns on parade?

The primary reason I got into this hobby was the aesthetic appeal of English cycles. I didn't know a Raleigh from a rocket three or four months ago, but I always knew there was something about these bikes and admired them from afar. Whenever I watched a period movie (which I do frequently), I would gasp and sigh. My interest in vintage bikes has everything to do with aesthetics and nothing to do with mechanics. We don't ride a SA 3-speed because it's the most up-to-date gadget on the market; we ride it because it propels the beloved cycle of old that says "made in England" on the top tube. Were I to don a modern helmet, I would be doing my Rudge or Raleigh a great disservice. If people did fine for a hundred years without helmets, well why can't I. The last thing I need is some damn government regulations coming along telling me I need to wear a helmet, or stop smoking, or eat right, etc. Don't get me started on one of my libertarian tirades.

It's not that I'm not concerned about these things. In our modern world of careless drivers who have little regard for cyclists, we probably do need a helmet of some sort. But please, oh please, offer us something with class and form. Life isn't about pure function, it has an aesthetic aspect to it as well, that's what makes us human. There is a reason that people wear suits to work (at least for business wear), not T-shirts and shorts.

You might call me old-fashioned, but I'm only 25 years old.


   RE: Form follows function follows form posted by dafydd on 9/1/2002 at 1:54:09 PM
There's always the hairnet; classy looking and totally ineffective.

"Class" is interesting word in this discussion. The machines we admire today were built with the working class (t-shirted nowadays)in mind: sturdy but heavy, simple lugs, little flash. The simplicity of these bikes is what we admire today were in fact intended to keep costs reasonable.

Contrast with the 3-speed hot rods, most likely owned by the upper classes: Hetchins, Bates, etc. Ornate, working pieces of art by today's standards, but there's often a fine line between ornate and garish. In times when color schemes were more subdued, these machines surely stuck out when compared to the standard black three speed. Features such as Hetchin's curly stays and Bate's diadrant fork were patented as improving ride quality, but more likely were marketing schemes. Marketing may drive bike design today (ie, suspension on every cruddy, loud deparment store bike), but it's alway been there. It just filtered downwards.

david "26, well on to antiquity, still wearing a subdued black and blue helmet," rambling and riding in philly.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by geo on 9/1/2002 at 11:17:21 PM
I certainly set off a firestorm here. I would like to reiterate what I stated in a previous post. I think British roadsters look good because they were well designed with a task in mind, form follows function. They are very durable and well built and easy to work on, one of my favorite things about them. Not all of us are interested in JUST asthetics, that is about a half tick away from the crap most of us rebel against in modern cycling. I find it somewhat hypocritical that that some of us belittle cyclists who ride modern bikes as shallow superficial doofuses who are only interested in flash glitz and how cool they look and in the same sentence go on about how they will reject any modern cycling advances because they wouldn't look as cool and glitzy like in vintage movies. It's exact same attitude. I watched my best friends son's head bounce off the pavement at the end of his driveway and because he had a helmet on not a mark on his face or head. Anyone who thinks they are only going to get nailed at least 25 miles from home is deluding themselves. Any claims that NOT wearing a helmet is safer doesn't even make common sense and sounds stupid. And lastly, Libertarians are right between Republicans who would kill to do all they can to absolutly screw the working class and poor, and anarchists, and this country is populated by such a large percentage of dopes that we would never survive a year left to our own devices. However, as I have stated, I too am against manadatory helmet and seatbelt laws. What you do with your OWN life is up to you. Kind of wish I hadn't brought it up. I was sort of expecting "I wear a helmet for safty reasons" or "I never got in the habit of wearing one because they were uncomfortable" or "never had them as a kid" or something like that. I'm beginning to get the feeling some of us(helmet wearers) wouldn't be welcome on rides with others(non-helmet wearers) because we wouldn't fit the look. I think I'll go ride my road bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by dafydd on 9/2/2002 at 2:12:12 AM
I'd join you if it wasn't raining here (although... i did kit out my three speed with alloy wheels, ha!)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/2/2002 at 2:48:40 AM
George; if this is a "firestorm", it's a tempest in a teapot! A good question, and in the end it's personal preference and personal choice. And I hope we don't judge each other by whether we wear helmets or not. I'd love the chance to ride with another English roadster "type" even one with an insect looking helmet. Now I am not too sure about modern alloy rims on a classic three-speed; my Rudge might object to such things. But helmets? No worries there. Now, if Brooks just made a helmet.... I'd be tempted.

P.C. Kohler, hard-headed over lots of things just not helmets!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Kevin C. on 9/2/2002 at 2:21:26 PM
I never wear a helmet, either, although I know it is potentially dangerous. A bike ride makes me feel like a kid again, and I always liked to feel the wind blow through my hair. I'm not trying to encourage anyone else to do as I do, but there is risk in involved in so many wonderful things in life: bicycle riding, motorcycles, sailing, swimming, skydiving, mountain climbing, running, falling in love, pecan pie, etc. In other words, riding without a helmet is another calculated risk, and one I'm willing to accept.

   RE: Helmet Wear posted by Ben on 9/3/2002 at 3:24:14 AM
Well, I too have mixed feelings about this. I ALWAYS wear my helmet on road bike workouts and club rides, but never on my roadster. This is counter to my understanding that helmets provide a substantial benefit. However, there is one thing I'd like to ask: why don't we consider riding in an automobile just as dangerous as cycling (since it is, if not more so) and advocate helmet wearing while driving? After all, racecar drivers do.

   Bicycles and aesthetics (cont.) posted by David Poston on 9/3/2002 at 6:13:02 AM
I certainly would never look down upon someone who wears a helmet. Sure, he or she can even wear it riding their Rudge or Raleigh. I just think, like another forumite said, that not wearing a helmet is another calculated risk we take. Life is full of risks, and we simply have to take them if we hold certain values. As for me, I value things of aesthetic quality. One my pursuits in life is a search for an aesthetic ideal--in dress, in architecture, in art--that manifests who I am and what life is about. I gravitate towards period movies not because they are glitzy, but because they give me a glimpse of life before modernity (or post-modernity) destroyed it all. Not to say that everything was peachy back then, or that I would necessarily uphold everything of age, for I am an iconoclast if there ever was one. The problem with today is that people are always trying to look "cool" with the latest technological invention or pop culture association. I don't find English roadsters "cool"; I find them worthy of aesthetic contemplation. Now cycling on an English roadster truly has an aesthetic, almost philosophical aspect to it. For me, an English roadster epitomizes the perfect blend of form and function in a bicycle. It's about simplicity, grace, and beauty. A plastic helmet just doesn't seem to fit into the equation, though I would keep one on hand in certain cases since I value my life too.


   RE:Bicycles and aesthetics (cont.) posted by Kevin C. on 9/4/2002 at 12:39:03 AM
Maybe what we really need are some good surplus English bobby helmets to wear while riding our English bobby bikes!

   RE:Bicycles and aesthetics (cont.) posted by Kevin C. on 9/4/2002 at 12:39:51 AM
Maybe what we really need are some good surplus English bobby helmets to wear while riding our English bobby bikes!

AGE / VALUE:   Better to do the estate sale yourself/ Heck, do e-bay with everyhting! posted by: Chris on 8/30/2002 at 12:33:18 AM
I stoped in at the estate sale today at about 4:15 p.m
I went in the garage first and went looking for a bike. No bike, but I lingered for 2 minutes then I saw something that gave me hope. It was the Raleigh spanner! Bent but half usuable. I thought.." Perhaps the bike is in the basement!" I went inside with the spanner. I asked the fellow in charge "Ok, What happened to the bike? Where is the basement? Did you sell the bike?"

He asked if I was "the son" I said What? He said "Oh, Never mind." then "No dude we sold the bike today already. It went for $35.00"
I said Oh No, I'm too late( Well Duh, It was only 8 hours after the sale started and I am still getting to these things way, way too late.) I stood there a second and wailed while they grinned at me. Still I began to sense from them that something was wrong here. I asked what kind of bike? He said "a Raleigh." Another sigh of discontent from me.
The spanner already told me that but I was not thinking quick to put it together. Then I asked "what model, what color, what size wheels?" All that.

He said it was a 1957 Raleigh Superbe in Burgandy (Burgandy??? Did Superbes come in burgandy in that year? and what size wheels? Remeber that 28 inch rod brake machines came with that name too. So I cannot positively I.D. the bike in my mind and never matter it's sold. The man in charge stated that " The 90 year old man who hired me is furious with me because I sold it so low he is calling me all sorts of bad things he's red with anger at me." I looked about and wondered why nothing else was sold there. I bought nothing myself because of this but mostly because I was stoping in without more than 4 .00 to my name. It was late and this was along my route home.

I said "Oh Crap, that's not good." Now, the man who is trying to settle an estate hired this guy and he mad the his beloved, stand out in his mind still, even dispite his old age, he has not forgotten that special, beloved bicycle from 1957! 1957 is a long time ago and we already know how people feel about Raleigh's and this was another case of somebody having strong feelings for a bike, a Raleigh bike no less. Not anything else perhaps but that Raleigh bike, yes. Likely not just to recieve a fair price but because of the impression this bike left on his life. The owner probably wanted to get a fair price to pay off bills and in that case he lost out and it was a disaster to have hired this guy wasn't it?
One lady told me later today at dinner that "Once you hire these people in they take you over and you get burned."

Anyways, It was a strange mess. They asked me what the bike was really worth and I said I'd have to have seen it.
Somebody hot about a beloved bike going too cheaply.
Some of these folks that do the sales are really squirrely this I see.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Better to do the estate sale yourself/ Heck, do e-bay with everyhting! posted by Chris on 8/30/2002 at 1:02:26 AM
Something was off, because many things were priced too low and there was collectable furniture there that sould have already been snapped up by pickers for dealers. It was mostly all still there.
Then the guy closed up before 5. I don't recall seeing a Burgandy Raleigh Superbe from that year. Burgandy?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Better to do the estate sale yourself/ Heck, do e-bay with everyhting! posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/30/2002 at 3:36:51 AM
A burgundy Raleigh? Never. But a burgundy (well really maroon) Rudge, yes indeed. And what's this about 1957 being "a long time ago"?

P.C. Kohler, born the same year a burgundy something or rather left Nottingham....

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Better to do the estate sale yourself/ Heck, do e-bay with everyhting! posted by Chris on 8/30/2002 at 4:58:02 PM
What I think would be fair is to have somebody sell off everything in the house of the estate sale man.
Get somebody to price his things all screwy, High ball or lowball and generally mess him up good. Then tell the guy "Well, I called in a junk guy and he hauled all the rest of it away. He only gave me $20.00 for everything here.Look at it this way, You won't have to be bothered with getting rid of it now. Give the sale guy his own medicine.
To be aged and have this happen is a real bad thing. Usually this happens after somebody has lost a wife or husband so this follows personal loss. Sometimes this is occuring because bills need to be paid and then they get burned is really bad.I heard a story about somebody's widow got burned trying to sell the business. She got 2/3rds of it.
What bothers me is that the guy was sitting there with two of his buddies and they all seemed like sharpies who play this game like a harp only the "music" is not so good for the "client"
These folks sitting there in this man's living room! with power like this and the owner had no say really. He was not there sitting watching any of whatever unfolded. Come to think of it,I never see a property owner there, ever.
Was the fee already paid? What's this 90 year old man gonna do? If it was a cash sale too? If there was a way that the dead could come back, we'd be hearing stories of hauntings at these tag sales. All this tromping thru strange houses and I never see any ghosts. I've given up believing I'll find a decent bike at the kerb in my neck o the woods. I'll just read about other folks neat finds.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Technical help needed: removing rear wheel on roadster models posted by: David Poston on 8/29/2002 at 10:37:29 PM
I was trying to remove the back wheel off my DL-1 Tourist yesterday, and I had some difficulty getting the chain off the chainwheel/freewheel. I had no problem with my Sports, due to the rear dropouts, allowing you to move the wheel TOWARDS the crankshaft instead of away so that the chain can slacken. For roadster models with the bolted rear stays, you have to move the back wheel AWAY from the crankshaft. On my particular cycle, the back wheel had been already pushed forward all the way and the chain tension set (with about 1" or less of vertical play). This made it near impossible to get the chain off, and hence the wheel. I consulted my c. 1950's Raleigh Maintenance handbook, and it made reference to a removable link in the chain. No such thing on my DL-1; the drive chain is one piece. Anyone here had experience with this problem?

Much obliged,

David Poston.

P.S. Oh, and now that I've got the chain off, what's the best way to clean it? Mine is heavily coated with solid grease.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Technical help needed: removing rear wheel on roadster models posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/30/2002 at 3:48:03 AM
David-- how on earth you managed to remove the chain of a DL-1 without breaking the link somewhere... well I am glad I wasn't there to watch. She must have howled something fierce.

Masterlinks seem to have disappeared from our machines in the mid 70s. Shame. They were great even if took about a month and a half to get the grease impacted in your bruised thumbnail out. What you need is a chain rivet extractor; a little tool that pops out a rivet and then pops it back in. Most cycle stores sell them.

Chain cleaning. I have always used one thing: varsol or better known in some parts as paint thinner and one of a large collection of those little toothbrushes that come in airline toiletry kits. Virgin Atlantic's are the best chain cleaners going. BA's toothbrushes fall to bits.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Technical help needed: removing rear wheel on roadster models posted by smg on 8/30/2002 at 2:55:54 PM
Modern 1/8" chains still have master links, and they seem to work better than I remember the old ones did. While experimenting with gearing, which may necessitate adjusting the length of the chain, I've found it very convenient to fit TWO master links, between which I can place one, three, or five links.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Technical help needed: removing rear wheel on roadster models posted by CHRIS on 8/31/2002 at 8:41:17 PM

WANTED:   The never ending hunt for parts posted by: Brian Geoffrey on 8/29/2002 at 1:30:41 PM
I've 3 Humbers and a rod-brake Raleigh in various states of repair. I'd love to buy a AW 3spd 36H 163mm axle hub with a metal cap lubricator in fine shape. I just found a '72 GH-6 in NOS condition in 36H drilling! I'd like to purchase the stay-bracket for mounting the little rear light. My "cross- my-finger's purchase is for a good condition (or better!) front headlight for the GH-6 setup. I have one but it has a
broken on/off lever-switch, and no one fixes those that I know of. Has anyone else have a Brampton 3spd thumb shifter out there in the discussion group? What do you think of it, in comparison to the SW units? I've noticed how the front assembly of older Brooks B66's always seem to have play in them. Is there a way to tighten this area up? I have some cool Humber forks for trade for stuff I need, and they are not bent.

AGE / VALUE:   FW Parts posted by: Ben on 8/29/2002 at 1:31:33 PM
Anyone out there with a "parts" FW able to supply me with a thrust washer (part K411 on Tony Hadland's diagrams)?

Thanks in advance,


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FW Parts posted by Edward in Vancouver on 8/29/2002 at 6:41:08 PM
4 Speed parts? I'm in the same boat as you, but I think you're better off than I am. Take a closer look at your FW chart, and compare the K 411 to the AW's thrust washer. If I'm not mistaken ( but I often am!) they should be the same part. The shell, clutch assembly and driver are the same for most S.A. hubs. Now which AW should you designate for "parts"?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   FW Parts posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/31/2002 at 9:03:02 PM
I'll work to get that interchange table out to more of you guys.

MISC:   12V Dynohub brochure posted by: David on 8/28/2002 at 5:48:22 PM
This always seemed like a fabled item. Someone's got a brochure for the 12V Dynohub on Ebay.

   RE:MISC:   12V Dynohub brochure posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/28/2002 at 6:19:13 PM
I have the fabled part in a box, n.o.s. The wiring harness is ancient, It's intended to go in a 32 hole front rim after I get it re- chromed. The only drilling this 12 volt monster was offered in was 32.
The whole bike is gonna be hung up and never ridden because everything will be new or restored on it.
This hub was kinda meant for a motorized/ motor attached rod brake cycle. It is very large and heavy and powerful.
The inside of the headlamp has terminals meant for a battery backup and those batteries are lost in time and space. Perhaps the old Brown Brothers catalog I have will shed battery info that may be helpful. Anyways, I'm up the tree with this and may never get it lit even for a second. If I broke that bezel glass or scratched this I'd die for sure. Too nice to use. And of course, I hear "How did you get it?/ Who sold you that?
My buddy tells them to go jump if they say something like "Don't sell it to Chris"
I saw a Phillips in New Rork on e- bay and it had this light set in a 26 inch cable brake bike and it was one of the most awesome Phillips offered and it went cheaply too. I missed out on this and still kick myself. The buyer would not sell it and I told him I didn't blame him.
Oh, those color scans were a real treat!

Now, I'm am certain that the reflectalite company mentioned in past posts here could supply a compatable bulb and probably in 'kicking' halogen too. The battery deal could be gotten around, and it does run one front bulb and a tail light by the generator alone so I'm being dumb not to run mine, I know.
This model is "the mother of all dynohubs" still the 8 volt model is rare-er. I have some strange dynohub stuff, including a small half tubular thing called a filter switch unit that I have not seen anyplace not even in the Hadland Book "The Sturmey-Archer story"
I have some pieces that belonged to the late Bill Kearns who worked for Raleigh and they are unusual. One day I hope to get acquainted with the B.S.A. Hublite and get to ride one.
Generating your own light as you ride is always neat. Now the actual little booklet that tells how to hook this up? That I need, and especially if I mount this F.S.U. thing. the F.S.U. is mentioned in the Hadland book but not shown and that's forgivable.

   RE:RE:MISC:   12V Dynohub brochure posted by Edward in Vancouver on 8/29/2002 at 1:16:59 AM
Yo, Chris, if you're not doing anything with your filter switch unit... Actually, I've got one on my Superbe, but it's broken. Try bringing that thing into a RaidoShack and asking for parts! The F.S.U. is mentioned in "The Sturmey Archer Storey", and there'a wiring schematic in Tony Hadland's site as well. I've downloaded (and printed) pages from the 1958 Sturmey Archer Manual on how to hook up a regular GH6 to plain lights, and how to hook an AG or FG to a F.S.U.complete with variations on Men's and Women's frames! I've even got the original wiring harness, if you want it just shout. What this little F.S.U does is basically transfers power from the 3 "d" cell battries to the lights when the bike is stationary or moving under 10 M.P.H.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   12V Dynohub brochure posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/29/2002 at 2:39:54 AM
Dynohubs are great! The ultimate British cycle "fitment".

I hope to find a suitable c. 1948 era F.S.U. for my Raleigh; my '51 Rudge already has the complete unit. It's one thing finding the battery cases but the wiring harness and brackets etc. are another story. Not to mention figuring out all the wiring etc.

Now... has anyone seen one of these as described in the 1949 Rudge brochure (UK):

"Dyno-Luxe Car-type Lighting Unit will be supplied [to De Luxe Super Safety Tourist] when available on De Luxe models only, in the meantime, Dry Battery Unit [D.B.U.] will be supplied at the same price... the Dyno Luxe Car-type Lighting Unite on our de luxe models will give you excellent service and satisfaction provided the following simple maintentance instructions are observed:

1. All accumulator top contacts and bases together with rectifier spring and container base plate must be examined, cleaned and vaselined once a fortnight.

2. Accumulators should be topped up with distilled water once a month.


So this was a car battery in a tube on a bike! Obviously shortlived.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:  Halogen Lamp at Radio Shack posted by JimW. on 8/30/2002 at 3:20:21 AM
Radio Shack has a pretty incredible little halogen lamp I just
installed in a pair of those lowrider bullet-style headlights.
It was a fairly simple conversion, all things considered, and
the light output is incredible. The lamp itself has the type of
base found in most flashlights. If your headlight uses candelabra
(screw-in)lamps, the conversion would be more difficult, but still
might be worth it. The lamp draws .88 amps at 5.2 volts. The voltage
difference would normally be a problem with most bike lighting systems,
but RS also sells a 5-volt voltage-regulator chip, which only lets
5 volts get to the lamp. The device only has 3 leads: + In, Ground, and
+ Out. This bulb makes a tremendous difference in lighting performance, and
the entire conversion only cost $7.50 per headlight. Our new
recumbent trike uses two headlights, so price was a factor.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:  12 Volt Sturmey-Archer dyno from 1930's posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/31/2002 at 7:18:19 PM
Correction: The 12 volt dynohub was offerd in 36 hole drilling. Mine is a 36, now perhaps they offered it in 32 also? I don't know.

WANTED:   CHAIN GUARD JC Higgins 3 Spd posted by: paul on 8/28/2002 at 4:07:02 PM
Just bought a very nice 50s (?) vintage 26 in men's 3 speed JC Higgins bike (made in Austria). I desperately need a chain guard. Original style is preferred but does anyone know of any after-market one that will fit? I'm not sure if the original of this bike had the fully enclosed guard or the feather style. Anyone know?? The rear SA axle has the numbers "50320" beneath the words J.C. Higgins. Thanks! Paul

   RE:WANTED:   CHAIN GUARD JC Higgins 3 Spd posted by sam on 8/28/2002 at 10:45:24 PM
Chain guard style depends on year.These bikes are shown in the book Collectable Sears elgins&J.C.higgins.and Wards hawthorns.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by: Dick on 8/28/2002 at 4:02:59 PM
Ebay item #http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2132500654&rd=1. Going for $400. Is it really worth that?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by Mucus on 8/28/2002 at 5:06:46 PM
That particular bike was definatly worth $400. Others will argue, but that was a very nice example. I sold an almost brand new one similar to that for $450, and I wish I'd kept it!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by Dick on 8/28/2002 at 6:18:05 PM
That truly is a nice looking DL-1. But what does a brand new DL-1 go for? Is Raleigh still making them? Forgive my ignorance on this subject, I normally hang out on the lightweight list. If I was to bid $400 for a 3-speed, it would be for this nice Pashley Prospero:
I just recently picked up my first 3-speed on ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2133411220&rd=1)so I'll be hanging around here a little more often. I beg you all be patient with me on the front end of my learning curve.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by Chris on 8/28/2002 at 6:49:44 PM
Very nice example of a D.L.1. meant for the states. The bike, as is, is worth that much.
no locking fork, no lights, no rear rack, no bell, no enclosed chaincase. Original and period correct? yes.
Lets hope it survives the shipping "experience".

1980 was the last year these were brought over to the U.S. Some lingered here in wharehouse after that. Some( a few) still do slumber new in their boxes. But when it comes to that, I ask "Where?-house"
Actually you never see these offered in: new in the box condition. You see Records, Record Aces, Professionals, Gran Sports, Super Courses (mk1, mk2, mk3)
But never any d.l.1 Tourists, R.S.W.16, Choppers, or Sports or Superbes offered on e- bay new in boxes.
There are folks floating about out there who have collections with new in box old bikes but they keep quiet,and don't pop up here. Still, I'll bet that they are reading the posts here.
The last of these left Nottinghan in 1987/88 in green paint scheme with enclosed chaincases.
This one that just sold for 400.00 does not look like it was ever ridden and if so, not for very far.
I love seeing those rear mudguards without nasty metal-sticky-backed liscence stickers on them.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/28/2002 at 8:41:51 PM
$400 for a DL-1 in nearly new shape even if it’s a 22-inch frame? Sure why not...

Here an accounting (give or take) on my latest “deal” from eBay:

1948 Raleigh Dawn (26" wheels, gearcase, rodbrakes, 23" frame)
$136.00 winning bid
shipping $ 28.00
fork repair $ 25.00
replacement wheel set $ 50.00
shipping of same $ 20.00
heron’s crest lamp bracket $ 15.00
new Kenda tyres/tubes $ 48.00 incl shipping
replacement frame pump $ 8.00
replacement dynothree hub $ 35.00
headlamp/tail lamp $ 15.00
shop labour to rebuild wheel $ 65.00 est.
and bottom bracket
new brake pads $ 6.00
heron’s crest transfer $ 6.00
lining transfers $ 35.00

TOTAL to date: $497.00

NOT including gobs of rubbing and polishing compound, armourall, Turtlewax, three packets of copperwool, SA oil, Phil Wood grease, Dupont Dulux black synthetic enamel etc.

and she’ll still have pitted, chipped and rusty paint, dents... and more character and charm than most machines out there. And I've really been enjoying bringing her back to life day by day.

I guess the point is for me, anyway, this is a fun hobby not some boring "investment". Want to make money, buy pork bellies or something. Value? Well to me, incaluable.

P.C. Kohler

   Pay more or work more?: that is the question posted by David Poston on 8/28/2002 at 9:15:30 PM
This DL-1 showed up on e-bay just after I bought my 22" DL-1, and I was kicking myself for having got one in far from perfect condition when I could have had this beauty. Mine has plenty of scratches and even a slightly bent front fork. However, I feel a bit better once the auction ended, seeing that this one sold for $400, and I got mine for $200 cash in person (no shipping worries there).

This poses an interesting question: Is it better (i.e. more economical, more satisfying) to pay big bucks for a pristine condition cycle with all the bells and whistles, or to pay less for a not so good cycle that will require hours of hands-on labor plus acquiring any necessary parts. I've found myself exclusively in the latter position thus far. There is something, though, I must say, that is deeply rewarding after those long hours of rubbing and polishing.


   RE:Pay more or work more?: that is the question posted by Dick on 8/28/2002 at 9:45:24 PM
But are DL-1's still made in England? If they are, why not just arrange to have one shipped over here?

   RE:RE:Pay more or work more?: that is the question posted by David Poston on 8/28/2002 at 9:55:04 PM
No, as far as I've heard, they stopped making them in c. 1981. After that, Raleigh pretty much went down the tubes and was bought out by some other company. The Raleighs you find now in the stores are either made here in the U.S. or in Asia, I believe.


   RE:RE:RE:Pay more or work more?: that is the question posted by Chris on 8/29/2002 at 12:44:04 AM
The Raleigh (D.L.1.) Tourist's name was changed to Royal Roadster and then they discontinued making this bike altogether. I don't believe that these stoped in 81 but rather 85-87 or so in there.
I don't want to disagree with David but my experience was diffrent.

Anyways, the bike is no longer made at Raleigh. The tooling to make it was sold before the last big end of all manufacturing auction sale at Raleigh just recently. They now assemble and paint not manufacture.
The mantle was passed to Pashley who make a fine bicycle still today. Pashley is making the heir to the Raleigh Winkie Tricycle it is called the pickle. Take a look at Pashley's website.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Pay more or work more?: that is the question posted by Chris on 8/29/2002 at 12:46:04 AM
I would not give $400.00 for a 22 inch frame. (That's just me, I'm tall) sorry but I thought it was a 24 inch model.
Depends on the buyer's height I guess.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by Mucus on 8/29/2002 at 12:35:10 PM
These bikes havn't been made in years, and Raleigh doesn't even really exist anymore. $400 now-a-days isn't really a lot of money for something this well made,and durable. A new bike like this from India costs almost half that anyway, and they are junk. I believe $400 is a good price for a DL-1 in NEW condition, and in fact I paid $450 for mine(very similar to that one, only in the 24 in. frame). Soon, these NOS bikes are gonna be history, so snap one up while you can.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh DL-1 for $400??? posted by Kevin C. on 9/2/2002 at 2:13:42 PM
Getting back to the question (whether to buy a bike in great condition or a fixer-upper) I think it is almost always smarter, and cheaper, to go for one in great condition with great original paint. They are always much easier to sell. Have to run ... I'm going out to the garage to play with one of my basket-case Raleighs.