This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by: Joe Lansing on 1/14/2003 at 10:58:26 PM
I need to sell my pair of excellent 1967 Raleigh Sprites. They are his/hers, 5 spd, chrome is excellent, original Dunlops, way cool factory racks like you can't believe. See a couple of quick pics at http://www.extragravity.com/images/bikes1.jpg and http://www.extragravity.com/images/bikes2.jpg. I'll take all the pics required, or even digital video, for a serious buyer. The gentleman's bike has seen slightly more wear than the lady's. Some minor decal wear on his, her's almost perfect. I'm guessing his at a 22" frame equivalent, her's at 19". I'll measure in CM for serious inquiries. I bought these last weekend. We are in an arid climate - no rust. I am asking $500 + shipping, or trade for quality recumbent. I'll give my phone # out to serious parties via email. These go on eBay if this audience doesn't want this cool pair. kidvid@extragravity.com.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by Mark R. on 1/15/2003 at 3:22:07 AM
Really, really nice looking bikes.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by Joe Lansing on 1/15/2003 at 8:28:30 PM
Thanks - they really are pretty sweet. Do you think my asking price is reasonable?

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by Mucus on 1/15/2003 at 8:58:30 PM
Well, don't take this wrong, the bikes are very very nice, but I think the price is a little bit high. If you sold them on eBay, you'd never get near that much, maybe $125 for the mans, $100 for the ladies.
A pair of DL-1's would fetch more of course, but I don't imagine these would. They are reasonably common, and therefore not as valuable as some others might be.
I think most people wouldn't want to pop so much for a set like these, you might get a better price selling sepparately.

But, who knows?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by Mucus on 1/15/2003 at 9:03:12 PM
For instance they don't have leather saddles or bags which lowers their value a bit. But, make no mistake they are fine bikes, someone will buythem!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Selling His/Hers '67 Sprites posted by Joe Lansing on 1/15/2003 at 10:57:26 PM
Thanks everyone for the input. I'm a bit of an innocent here, so your experience is appreciated!

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Puch Roadster on 1/14/2003 at 3:42:44 PM
I have a question: I have an opportunity to buy a Puch roadster bicycle with 24 in frame, it has an enclosed chaincase, an odd front rod brake that pushes a spoon shaped pad down onto the front tyre to stop the bike, and the rod goes right through the front mudguard. It has 28 in. wheels. I like it a lot, it rides really nice, but the woman who has it wants $150 It looks like new though, and it really is in great shape. Do you think I should go ahead and buy it, or wait for a Raleigh?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Warren on 1/14/2003 at 4:15:16 PM
That's a tough one because it's not a well known marque in the roadster category... Puch made some decent bikes in their day.Those spoon brakes are generally on quite old bikes and you say this on looks like new. I presume it's a single speed. If she can verify that the bike is older and you like to ride it, I think it's a no brainer. Where are you going to find that much enjoyment for $ 150? Maybe if you took cash she would take less. If it is a modern reproduction I would think twice about it. Have a look at the details...the hubs, rims, tyres and fasteners... and you should be able to tell if it truely is a vintage bike.

When a nice Raleigh shows up, you can buy that one too!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by sam on 1/14/2003 at 4:53:49 PM
I think the German/austrain bikes used that spoon brake on there roadesters quite late,so the bike could be farily new.But then if you like it..it's up to you.As for the speeds,lots of S/A aust.clone hubs avalible if needed.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Puch Roadster on 1/14/2003 at 5:54:04 PM
Well, it is black with red pin striping, has a single speed hub, a leather saddle, and what look just like Raleigh pedals, except they don't have the little Sir on them.It looks more or less like a Raleigh "roadster" except for the wierd brakes. I never got the impression it was more than 15 or 20 uears old.I think I am gonna jump on it, and if I make a mistake, well there is alway eBay, no?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Steven on 1/15/2003 at 7:33:13 AM
The bike can easily be from the 50's or 60's with the spoon type front brake. Both the Germans and the Austrians continued this odd set-up inot the 60's. The $150 price is cheap! Personally, I would take most Italian roadsters over the Raleigh. German, Dutch and Austrian bikes are nice too but often don't have the same elegance of the Raleigh and Italian bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Edward in Vancouver on 1/15/2003 at 3:16:52 PM
Steven is right about spoon brakes, however the Swiss Army continued using them right up to the '80's before they replaced the 20 odd kilo bike with a (gasp) modern mountain bike. What would the Swiss want with a mountain bike ? Puch is a great make, You can justify spending $150 by seeing how much effort you have to put in the bike before riding it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by puch roadster on 1/15/2003 at 4:06:23 PM
Well, I wouldn't have to put any effort into it at all, it's ready to ride as is, almost like new. Pump the tyres hard maybe.
So, I'm gonna get it. I'll post a picture when I do.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by: P.C. Kohler on 1/14/2003 at 3:36:01 PM
Ok, guys.. getting down to brass tacks here. Just finalising an order for spares from Mangla Industries, India. Rims (Westwood 26" and 28", Westrick 26", Endrick 26" (including the narrow club style) all 32/40 holes, Raleigh pattern rod brake parts, Raleigh pattern rod brake handlebars, rebuildable pedals with fine diamond rubber blocks and no reflectors, DL-1 gearcases, frame pumps, bottom bracket assemblies in 26 tpi, headsets in 26 tpi etc.

Axles: we can order these too but does anyone out there have the EXACT dimensions for say a Sports "type" and a DL-1 "type". From what I've seen, there seem to be too many variations to guess. So if you know, HELP!!

Any other parts you think we should get??

We will be ordering custom made parts (grips, reflectors, maybe saddle bags etc.) but that's "next time".


P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by Mucus on 1/14/2003 at 3:48:33 PM
MUDGUARDS!!! God almighty man MUDGUARDS!!!!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/14/2003 at 4:32:37 PM
They offer "Raleigh" (round roadster) and "Phillips" (squared roadster) mudguards BUT.... as all Indian-made guards, these have the outside-mounted stays which don't look "right", at least to me....


P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by sam on 1/14/2003 at 5:00:02 PM
You might look into what leather saddles they carry.Brooks and Middlemore clones are made in India.They would be good for dayly riders.And Bells& gen lights too.how about Drop stands.--sam

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by Chris on 1/14/2003 at 8:50:17 PM
Myself,I'd steer clear of the Brooks saddles copies. I would stay with original Brooks there.
Pick and choose. hub cones too.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by David on 1/14/2003 at 10:26:35 PM
I have an Indian Brooks clone I bought in Calcutta in 1977. The chrome has rusted (duh), but the leather is fine and it's comfy. Just keep 'em out of the rain...

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by David Poston on 1/14/2003 at 10:41:32 PM

Has this order been "finalised"? Will you be ordering in bulk or for yourself personally? Please do let us know if we should pitch in, and how.

As for parts: Mudguards, chaincases (what about Sports-type?), handlebars....

It does seem that H. Russell is expanding his inventory of parts in February. The only problem is the shipping. Let us know how this ordering from Mangla would work.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by keith on 1/14/2003 at 11:58:12 PM
What about those rear reflectors for the DL1 mudguards. That's not a custom-made part, is it?

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/15/2003 at 1:53:48 AM
No, the order is not finalised. But we hope to get this done SOON. I am ordering these parts (with a another member of this board and a neighbour) with the idea of providing a ready source of RUNNING parts for British three-speeds. The emphasis is on running as we are the last to suggest that any Third World parts are the equal of the originals. Nor are we trying to compete with others; Cycles of Yesteryear is great but when the price of shipping costs as much or more than the order, there's got to be a better way!

What we are ready to order are stock parts. The following are items that we hope that we can get custom manufactured as replicas: "Sports" style gearcases, Raleigh torpedo grips in black, grey and stone colour, frame and fork clips for Dynohub wiring, rear black-mounted reflectors, seat bags (ideally several sizes modelled after the Brooks ones) and so forth. Mangla has already indicated they can make the grips.

Any further suggestions on what you'd all LIKE to get are welcome... and please, anyone out there with axle specs???!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by Lars Lehtonen on 1/15/2003 at 3:27:46 AM
I sent you an email about this last week. Is kohl57@starpower.net the correct address?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by paul v on 1/15/2003 at 9:39:04 AM
what about lights,those little black plastic parts for self adjusting brakes,rear racks, white wall tyres,

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parts from India posted by Mark Riendeau on 1/15/2003 at 1:59:56 PM
Can you get some lug and bottom bracket sets? I always wanted to try to braze up my own roadster frame, but the proper lugs and fittings aren't available to me.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/15/2003 at 3:38:49 PM
Tyres: Mangla don't seem to sell a great variety. I am wary too of some of these Third World tyres as they tend to be "thin" profile. I don't know if custom made tyres based on the original Dunlop ones would be possible.

Bottom bracket parts and lugs: yes indeed they sell these. We were not thinking of stocking something that I doubt many would want or am I wrong? IF they will let us, we could get a few most likely. They sell full frames as well.

They do not stock anything like the Raleigh self-adjusting brake things; that's too limited and "too-Raleigh".

Oh; they stock and manufacture tools. Might as well ask them the obvious: can they make a cotter press like the Park Tool one?

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parts from India posted by Mark on 1/15/2003 at 5:25:53 PM
Obviously you don't want to get in too much over your head, but I will buy several lug, bottom bracket, etc...sets if you get them, as well as mudguards, chaincase etc....
I'm really interested in building up a frame though. I get get good quality seamed, and seamless tubing. Wouldn't a roadster frame made out of Columbus, or True Temper moly
be a thing to behold?
If you get any, I'll buy a few sets.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Cycle Fenders posted by Chris on 1/16/2003 at 8:16:59 PM
Beware when picking up (buying) mudguards!
I have seen Chinese and Hong Kong replacement steel black painted and pinstriped (box lined) replacement mudguards for English bikes and they are awful!
Also you can get burned with a small bit of the English replacement mudguards. Do be careful, and look throughout what it is you are considering buying.Especially if it involves shipping and paying and waiting for it to arive.

I went through tons of mudguards all wrapped in brown paper and there were more companies making and selling replacement mudguards than you can shake a stick at. It got so loony that I limited myself to original named brands like Raleigh and Phillips, Schwinn. I have icky Canadian fenders that I'll take to the grave because nobody at the swaps will want them. And that time I picked through a wharehouse and was in the midst of 4000 pairs of J.C Higgans and Evans from Michigan fenders. They laughed like heck at me!
You have to open wrappings and look and be sure there is no damage and do these have the box lining and decals on them?
Some will and some do not. Box lining (pinstriping) can be added after you get them home and decals can be supplied by Nick at LLoyds in England and other places. I have gone through hundreds of mudguards with stuff all stacked up only to find a small batch of fenders(mudguards) worth buying. Original Raleigh 28's without dents and ready for use. I stand looking and these are things of beauty.
Do you have the braces for those?
mounting clips? It's called a backstay bridge clip.A metal band that holds the mudguard (fender) in place on the bike.

Blumels will get broken and chipped if you are not careful so don't stack these on top of one another on their sides.
The Blumels Noweights are expensive and collectable and some of these are pricy today but the mudguard is one of the most important and beautiful part of the bicycle.They can make or break you on the bike and no restoration job is right with mudguards that are off, dented, scratched or flawed. Every brand, every maker had their own special style and pattern and design.Some were steel, some were aluminum, celuloid and plastic. Some are junk some are collectable.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by: Brian on 1/13/2003 at 6:07:20 PM
I've had the occasional piece of Forever, & in my humble opinion - it ain't close to old Raleigh quality. I have some restoring tricks I'm going to try on my rims, and if those methods fail I'll take the suggestion & go up against the ebay sniper's, lurker's, schills and last-second bidder's. I really like the group on this list.. and it's a great place to bounce ideas!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by M. R. on 1/13/2003 at 8:36:59 PM
You might want to concider keeping your old wheels as they are, and building a set you can use everyday without worrying about the value, then you could always put the originals back on anytime you wanted to sell the bike, and it would be "original" reguardless of condition. If you rechrome the rims they won't be "original" anymore no matter how good the job is done. I think you will find good original rims if you're patient. I have an older Raleigh rear wheel from the forties that has the satin/unpolished finish, and I picked that up at a flea for only $2.
They'll show up, you'll see.

MISC:   Dry Saddle Fixer posted by: Keith on 1/13/2003 at 4:35:09 PM
Greetings from the vintage lightweight folks! We too find thoese old fossilized Brooks, and I recall a few years ago a leatherworker gave a formula, in this discussion, to address the really far gone dried out leather. As I recall, it involved a double boiler and making a suspension with water and some other treatment -- I don't think it was neatsfoot. Anyone remember this? We're in a tizzy because there are the Proofide-only guys, but Proofide doesn't penetrate much, and in my experience won't cure a really dry saddle. Then there are the neatsfooters, but then someone pointed out, correctly I believe, that neatsfoot actually breaks down leather. I searhced the archives but can't find the answer. Help! (Please post in the vintage lightweight, okay? I ride both, so I'm kin to you all.)

   RE:MISC:   Dry Saddle Fixer posted by sam on 1/14/2003 at 12:55:28 AM
Thinks Keith, I did. And we should re-visit here too.It takes water to keep your seat from ripping under the riders weight.All things made from living matter are held together by water. Too much water and the matter will not bind ,too little water and matter turnes to dust.New leather saddle has water ,tannin oils,and a wax sealer.But an old saddle that the water has dryed out of needs to be re-hydrated before weight (the rider) is applied to it.The trick is keeping the water from just drying back out of the leather and leaving it harder that at first.That is where the oils and grease come in play.Hydrate the oil/grease and it will keep the water in the saddle.Simple,boil water add neatsfoot oil and lard.Paint this mix on the dry leather.DO NOT ADD WATER TO HOT OIL/GREASE,add the oil/grease to hot water!!!---sam PS new saddles only need to be ridden,use this for dry leather only.

   RE:MISC:   Dry Saddle Fixer posted by paul viner on 1/14/2003 at 10:45:02 AM
try going to your local tannery and ask if you can buy a small tub of 'leather fat'.what this marvellous product is is the good gear that is leached out of the leather when it is tanned.basiclly you are putting back what is taken out in the initial process.in australia we normally pay about $5-$7 for a 3 kg tub. i have brought back to life a 90 year old bells leather saddle by coating it liberally with this stuff.try from underneath as well as most leather is sealed on one side.

   RE:MISC:   Dry Saddle Fixer posted by Keith on 1/14/2003 at 4:45:44 PM
Thanks very much Sam -- this is excellent and invaluable advice.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   -Humber Sport alert- posted by: Brian on 1/13/2003 at 4:38:42 AM
new ebay outting > 1954 Men's Humber Sport..seller has decent # of pixs too! item # 2153906483

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: -Humber Sport alert- posted by J. M. Vernooy on 1/14/2003 at 12:05:20 PM
Which side should the terminal side of the Dynohub be on? Just asking to clarify. I haven't seen many Dynohubs in use lately.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: -Humber Sport alert- posted by Brian on 1/14/2003 at 2:57:02 PM
The Dynohubs on my bikes have the terminal side to the right. I have the rear lights fixed to the left side of the seatstays because I live in the "drive-on-the-right-side-of-the-road" States.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: -Humber Sport alert- posted by J. M. Vernooy on 1/14/2003 at 3:49:54 PM
That's what I thought, but since I've only recently gotten a bicycle with a Dynohub, I wanted to be sure. The front wheel of that Humber probably was just put on for the pictures, but seeing the Dynohub reversed got me wondering. Thanks.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   -Humber Sport alert- posted by David on 1/14/2003 at 10:30:28 PM
The terminals are usually mounted on the left, but I've seen them both ways in advertising from the factories. And it makes no difference electrically or physically (both sides have locknuts unlike some Raleigh hubs).

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   -Humber Sport alert- posted by Max M. on 1/15/2003 at 5:38:12 AM
Front Gh6 is on the wrong side. Wheel was probably taken off and just put on wrong. Notice the wires dangling all over the place. The grips have also been updated to Hunt/ Schwinn style jewels. Aside from that the bike looks decent. Should clean up well.

AGE / VALUE:   "59? Raleigh Superbe posted by: Dave on 1/13/2003 at 2:53:48 AM
A little help for a newbie? I have found a Raleigh Superbe for sale. The bike appears to be mostly original. It is a maroon men's with the dynohub the rear AW is dated '59. The fenders have some dings and rust at the backs and the rims are a bit pitted. It appears to be ridable and the asking price is $150. Is this a reasonable price? Thanks in advance

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ben on 1/13/2003 at 3:33:52 AM
That's more than I would pay for anything pitted, but that might be just me.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ben on 1/13/2003 at 3:38:16 AM
I mean, you are probably ending up with spoke nipples seized at least. In my mind, $150 buys a nice unpitted Superbe for the patient hunter.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ben on 1/13/2003 at 3:41:43 AM
On the other hand, the maroon color may be rare...offer $75 and see what happens!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ben on 1/13/2003 at 3:55:03 AM
On the other hand, the maroon color may be rare...offer $75 and see what happens!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Mark R. on 1/13/2003 at 4:13:44 PM
I wouldn't pay that much for one unless it was in good shape. I paid $10 for my "Sports", and everything was in great shape.

AGE / VALUE:   48 humber poster posted by: sam on 1/13/2003 at 2:30:15 AM
I like the 1948 humber poster on ebay--take a look at the model in the lower left corner,this is the type of frame I see copyed most often on Indian roadesters http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2153903167&category=420

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by: Brian on 1/12/2003 at 11:24:50 PM
I apologize if this subject has been dealt with in the past, but does anyone know where I can get Raleigh rims beadblasted/rechromed? I'm in the NE part of the U.S. It has gotten expensive & hard to get chroming done these days with the environmental concerns that rechroming entails! I've about said the "heck with it" & decided to put alloy rims on my 1950's bike..but I really want to keep her o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l & all English! Please advise.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by Edward in Vancouver on 1/13/2003 at 12:47:06 AM
I had a few rims re-chromed, and I did it on the "peanut butter jar principle" The cost for re-chroming one rim is about CDN $100.00, and alot of this has to do with the labour of removing the old chrome and polishing the bare metal so no imperfetions show through. I 've got an old peanut butter jar in my locker at work and when I've got about $30.oo saved up, I bring the part down to get re-chromed. After a month or so, when the part is ready, I usually have the remainder saved up as well. However there are a few things you should take into consideration first.

-All chrome is not the same. The remaining chrome on your 50 yr old bike will not match the newly chromed items.

-If your rims are going on regular hubs, that is without drum brakes, don't cringe when a few years later the caliper brake shoes chew through the chrome.
Chroming is nasty business. I remember those old TV movies where certain "European social clubs" used the acid tanks to dispose of bodies. Look in the yellow pages under "Chrome plating" or "Bumper exchanges" for possible sources. Car and motorcycle collectors usually have a "favorite" list as well. The plating is usually done in three steps, after polishing it goes in a nickel bath, then a copper, a finally the chrome. If any of these steps are omitted, the chrome ain't gonna last.
Then there's the steel wool business. There's about a 50/50 split in this discussion group on wether to use steel wool to polish chrome. The people who are against it claim that minute bits of the steel wool break off and lodge in hairline cracks in the chrome, and then rust. Others, including professionals who work with chrome plated stuff all their lives disagree. I just use Turtle wax chrome cleaner and a soft rag...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by sam on 1/13/2003 at 2:40:10 AM
You may also have to ship the part out of your area.Chrome shops are still active in the south west--Ok.-Tex. area.Again check with local Antique auto/hotrod--people or clubs to see what they advise for your area.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/13/2003 at 3:55:43 PM
No rechroming done today will ever duplicate the blue-tinged Rhodesian chrome of a 1950s English made cycle. Never. You might as well buy Indian-made replacements if you're after period appearance. Chrome quality went into the toilet post 1965 thanks to the moronic sanctions against Rhodesia and chrome ore was imported instead from Russia (!). It's junk. Compare a '70s Raleigh with a '50s one.

A better idea is to search eBay: rims or wheels come up frequently; I just got a Westrick rim for $1.00. And a pair of stainless steel, Dunlop-made DL-1 wheels WITH Michelin tyres AND a dynothree hub for all of £30. So many bikes were garage queens and you can get rims or wheels with near perfect chrome which are original, British-made etc.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rechroming old Raleigh rims posted by M. R. on 1/13/2003 at 4:52:24 PM
I HAVE a pair of brand new 26 in rims from Forever in China that are very close to the originals on the Raleighs. If you are interested I would like to sell them (I don't need them). Let me know.

AGE / VALUE:   Blind, half crazed, digging squirrel finds a whole new batch of nuts to catalog and h posted by: Chris on 1/12/2003 at 8:22:52 PM
Other swashbuckling bike collector types would jump in and pull everything out and line it up and without a thought assess what all is in the place. Those piles of bikes 6 feet high by 8 feet wide all tangled together. would be no problem. Me I look and moan and it takes me all day.
Well, he bought up 2 or three other old shops and now all this is mixed in with all the stuff I already picked through. I stoped and gasped! there it was hanging up! The real thing. He had four more and two in another stash soon to be brought over for me. I went into shock. There is too much stuff, I can hardle move without knocking things over.
I pull out the whole drawer and tell the dude I want it all! He looks at me. I take the whole drawer out and there are gaps in the cabinet. I'll bring back the empty cabinet drawer. I go through a drawer and tell myself that I already went through it and there is nothing else. WRONG! he's added parts and some of it I grab up. Now, buy low, buy low and if and when you sell, sell high. Not the other way around, you can do this! My frazzled mind flashes with everything I have absorbed. grips that were close to Chopper grips but these are copies and not the same so I leave them. I am looking every tire over real close, and I have printouts from e- bay and I am trying my darndest to find the 600.00 musclebike tire (s) and then buy every one there. It's buried under tons of stuff, boxes and boxes and I have to run to other locations. I'm dirty, it's cold, I need to eat, and I just remembered I left things there on the counter. Crap! I'll have to go back. I hope to be there to see this other shop and help carry out inventory and pick through the goods. I thought I had already swept through this place's stuff but there is more than what I saw and much of it is new never before seen vintage goodies. I was told that a basement flooded and it was cleaned out. Wrong! or rather untrue. I am now picking through what came from that place. It's mind blowing, really. Big heavy cabinet full of old tools, modern junk mixed it with all sorts of tools. I sit until I'm numb, but by golly I'm gonna pick through it all and look for old tools marked Raleigh or British made or British Brittool. The pictures of old obsolete tools shown in Hadlands book is burned into my brain and I am looking. Got the cotter pin tool. Now I can chill out for petes sake. We talked about landfil and how this stuff gets lost forever. I hate it when I look at something and don't know it's value or worse yet, what in the heck it is and who made it. I'm getting answers to questions and it's amazing. I'm learning history. Huge four story factory building and it's been razed and a new building is there now. Looking at old catalogs and traveling to see what is there now is depressing because it is usually all gone by now but I love this type of a field trip anyways. I stand looking at an empty fenced in field and I look down at the picture of the factory that sttod there and nothing is left.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:  Run away with the swap meet sharpies and be taught the ropes posted by Chris on 1/12/2003 at 9:07:53 PM
At the next swap meet I am going to find the sharpest, cleaver, crafty old bicycle shop/ dealer pirate there is! There about four that I know of, and I am going to ask. I am going to ask to be taken in as an junior apprentice and beg to be taught the business, go to the places, repair things, run errands and hopefully soak in every thing I can. The big collector/dealers that would eat me for breakfast. I want to crawl up with an offering and beg to be taken in under their wing. My training is not complete and if they need some free help they may allow me to hang with them. I'm nowhere near being able to walk the rice paper yet. There are sharp buisnessmen that don't fool around but if I keep quiet and stay quiet I'll learn things.
They'll look at me and grin and say "You want to do what??"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh BB dimensions posted by: Eric on 1/12/2003 at 4:53:58 PM
I've really enjoyed reading many posts on this board and have learned quite a bit. But dag-nab it, I'm hooked again. I though lanterns were hard to fix up and get parts for...

My questions for you Raleigh guru's out there:

1. The Raleigh BB takes a 1.37 x 26TPI. Yes, I know you have the bottom bracket rethreaded for newer cranks/cups or get the Phil Woods setup.

Has anyone used the Woods bracket/cups? I don't know if any retappings has to be done with using these.

2. What about crank axle dimensions for the Raleighs?

Eric "dag-nab-it" Jakubowski


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh BB dimensions posted by David on 1/13/2003 at 5:11:52 PM
See www.harriscyclery.com "old bikes" "raleigh twenty"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by: J. M. Vernooy on 1/12/2003 at 3:05:19 PM
I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes with these coments. Does anyone else here cringe when they hear the words "parting out" when referring to fine old English bikes? Sure, we need parts for our fine old English bikes from time to time and we don't want to put a part on one that is not at least a possible original. And I'm not inocent as I have bought extra, used SA hubs, and Raleigh brakes before I needed them. I certainly don't want to impede the flow of replacement parts. But just think, how did that Hercules tandem get stripped to just frame, fork, and a few parts that may or may match it? Sure, it could have been that someone took it apart to clean and rebuild and then for whatever reason never got back to it. And in the case of that one, that's probably the case. But when I hear about a Raleigh Superbe or, since they are my preference, a pre 1960's Hercules that someone wants to part out or has parted out I feel much like I did when I read about Raleigh's plans to close the factory in Nottingham. I'm probably preaching to the choir, as most, if not everyone, here is preserving these bicycles not tearing them apart for profit. But I look at my modest supply of used spares that I've bought and wonder where the rest of that bicycle went. The best case would be if people would begin to buy enough new roadsters so that Raleigh or some small factory starts making them again in England, the way they used to be made, and new parts that are original in design become available. But the chances of that are probably not even as good as the chance of getting struck by lightning. So when my spring project of re-newing my first bicycle is finished it will very likely have a new Brooks B-72 saddle instead of the original red and white mattress saddle, Endrick type rims will be replaced with Endrick type Ridgida and/or Araya rims, (still 32/40 spoke), and the grips will, if needed, be the French VAR grips that look just about the same as the English original finger grips. Sure there are times when one bicycle must be sacrificed to get another one back together, I just hope that it is always because the frame of the original bicycle was unusable or lost, not because the used parts could sell for more than the complete bicycle would have.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Edward in Vancouver on 1/13/2003 at 4:30:05 AM
This is a topic that I've given considerable thought to. If I were in the religion business, I'd be questioning if a bike had a soul or is merely a grand assembly of many sub-assemblies. Certainly e-bay will back up the latter, as it is more profitable to chop up a bike and sell the "sub-assemblies" (ie hubs, pedals, wheels, etc.) It's also a lot cheaper to send small parts in the mail then to ship whole bikes, making restoration easier for people like us.
And the people who "chop" the bikes? On the whole I think they're alot like us, but with better sources and contacts, and they can't pass up on the stuff when it comes their way. I don't think they're laughing on the way to the bank with the money they earn, probably spend it on more of the same stuff.
On a totally different wave-length, one of my employees has her boyfriend pick her up after work, he drives a '82 Chev Malibu, swears it's a classic, and definately has put enormous amounts of time and money into it. An '82? What makes it a classic, because it still has real chrome bumpers? I learned to drive in a '76 Malibu, and just can't consider it a classic. I've never (and never will!) ask this fellow if he thinks his car has a soul, or is just a collection of parts, destined to fall apart if consistant and exact maintainence is not performed.
I shouldn't digress on and on, you know, like that old English sitcom "The two Ronnies" where the little Ronnie sits in this huge chair and....

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Parting out posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/13/2003 at 4:05:30 PM
Parting out... well tis 'orrible. I cringe when I see this stuff come up on eBay; some of it looks almost new and unless the frame was fractured, you just know some gorgeous ladies' bike was chopped. Shame on me for buying the stuff.

And what's with the female of the species? Come on ladies, get in on the glamour and elegance of riding and restoring classic English speeds! A comely lass looks much nicer aside a ladies hoop frame DL-1 than she does on some odious unisex whatever. Yuck. Stop chopping ladies English cycles. Now.

I digress.

All this is why I am still in "negotiations" with an Indian supplier to get us the basic running parts for these machines plus a range of replica fittings. It can and will be done. Just takes time.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Mark R. on 1/13/2003 at 8:46:39 PM
You know, parting out is the only way you will eventually be able to find ANY parts! It's the natural evolution of a bike model. Eventually all that will remain is the ONE bike of each model that was kept alive the longest with these parts. Entropy I think it's called: the winding down of something as the "energy" is used up. It's unavoidable.
I have "parted out" bikes that I did not want anymore, or had little value(like a ladies "Sports"). I think we should be glad we have this final "resourse". You know eventually we all die, and someone in the family sells all our "stuff" DL-1's included. Everything eventually finds it's way into the land fill, even our beloved collectables. If we can keep'em going afew more decades by using parts from someone else's bikes, well by golly I'm gonna do it!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Mark R. on 1/13/2003 at 8:57:40 PM
I guess what I meant to say was, that if I can get parts for an old bike from a bike that someone else didn't want anyway, or vice versa he gets parts for his from a bike I didn't want, then it is a good thing.
Inanimate objects have no soul, except to the person who owns them. When you croak, and they sell your bike made up out of "parts" to someone else, he will concider it to have a "soul" the way it is.
That is just the way it is.

   Survival of the fittest? posted by David Poston on 1/14/2003 at 10:49:50 PM
Sadly, it seems that the only way to keep our machines running is to part out others.

I suppose you could say the mountain bike market has driven us into a savage state of cannibalism! E-bay is a an arena where "nature red-in-tooth-and-claw" certainly applies. There have been several occasions, however, where I have passed on an item because I recognised the bidder as one of you here (posted-at-sea, that's you!).

In regards to Peter's comments on the ladies bike, I concur completely. Where are all the women? I, for one, have convinced (well, she needed little convincing) my fiance to join me in my roadster jaunts. My English bicycle collection is 50% male and female, two for her and two for me. It makes my rides much more enjoyable.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Dave on 1/15/2003 at 3:19:34 AM
In 1973 at the age of 15 or 16 I wanted a 10 speed so badly that, I am ashamed to say, I stripped the handlebars, fenders and seat off my AMF/Hercules and painted chartreuse over the pinstriped black frame, added drop bars and a cheap vinyl saddle. I dumped the bike on my brother as soon as I was able to earn the money for my dream, a brand new Raleigh Grand Prix. Now I seek a replacement for the Hercules. I recently went to buy some BB cups at my local bike shop and all they had in 26 TPI was "reclaimed parts". Even the bike shops are "parting out" old bikes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Mark R. on 1/15/2003 at 3:36:01 AM
Yeah, well what I think is that if we DON'T buy the parts from "parted out" bikes, then they are gonna wind up in a trash bin, and ultimately the dump, or God forbid on beater bikes used by jerks, and then discarded. I'd far rather see someones' "Sports" wind up on the parts list than in the trash! If someones' mudguards from his bike end up on mine (which needs it by the way), and I wind up with a really nice bike and I KEEP it for 30 or 40 years and then leave it to my grand kids, isn't that a better alternative?
Speaking of "soul", if I have a bike lacking some essential "original" part, it's "soul" is not "right". If I restore it's "soul" with parted out parts, and give it back it's " completeness", well that's a good thing. I just feel that people might toss the parts if no one wants them, and THAT definately would suck big time.
Regardless of the soul issue, a bike (or any machine) really is just a collection of well thought out parts. If the bike is asembled out of the best parts available regardless of where they come from, then it is a better machine.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Parting out posted by Max M. on 1/15/2003 at 5:58:09 AM
In case everyone here is so fortunate as to have never had the need for donated biological material (kidneys, lungs, liver sections, eyes, etc.)let me mention that we do this sort of thing everyday in modern medicine. The donor bikes are being cannibalized to restore that most precious example of 50, 60, 70 year old cycling technology that sits in the garage(or in my case ;-) the dining room.

AGE / VALUE:   Help with AW posted by: Bruce Ho on 1/11/2003 at 1:55:42 PM
Greetings. Excuse my English, but I am borrowing a computer to solve a bicycle problem. The AW hub on my bicycle does not shift into the third (hardest) gear. I have explored all causes that I can see without opening the hub. There is sufficient slack in the hub, and when the shifter is in the third position, the few links of the indicator chain do not want to go into the hub. Sometimes after backward pedaling, it will shift into third gear, but sometimes not. I have added oil into the hub.

I am anxious about the possibility of looking inside the hub, but I will if it means that the hub will be fixed. It is very perturbing to me to not have the use of the third gear.

Please forgive the lack of email address, but I do not have a computer or email address. My friend will show me all answers. Thank you for reading my long question.

Bruce Ho

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help with AW posted by David on 1/12/2003 at 4:47:47 AM
Here's a link to the SA AW technical manual.


It's only four pages - print it out. There's one confusing thing in it: it shows the use of a special spanner to remove the cap on the hub. Older hubs have only two shallow notches (not the deep cutouts) and the cap must be turned by using a drift punch and hammer to get it started. Other than that, the new and old hubs seem to be identical.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help with AW posted by dafydd on 1/12/2003 at 4:20:24 PM
The vast majority of problems with 3-speeds can be fixed without ever opening the hub; they almost always involve the cable, housing, or indicator chain. Some things to do before you take the hub apart:

1. Unhook the indicator chain from the cable, pull out the cable from the housing as much as possible so as to expose the cable, clean it with steel wool, lube it with a light lubricant (BikeAid if you can find it), run the cable in and out of the housing, lube it some more. If you have a bike that has the housing that runs to the chainstay and it feels rough inside, just replace it, it'll never become great.

2. While you have the cable unhooked, unscrew the indicator chain and check for kinks, fix or replace as necessary. when you screw it back in, screw it all the way in, then back off as necessary to make a straight line with the path of the cable.

3. Flood the hub with carburetor cleaner or WD40. Let sit overnight.

It sounds like #1 is the cause of your trouble, but do all three just to be sure. Oil the hub with a normal lubricant after you've cleared up the problem. Go for a long ride.

FOR SALE:   Many roadsters in Argentina posted by: Steven on 1/11/2003 at 1:20:26 AM
I have been exchanging emails in Spanish with a fellow in Argentina. One of his compatriots, who is suffering through the economic hardships that his country is now going through, has asked Luis for help in selling a rather nice collection of European roadsters. He has 15 bikes in total that he would like to sell. I have included below a short description of the bikes and have a number of photos showing them. I suppose that to minimize the transport cost influence, it would be best to look at all of the bikes as a single lot, so this might be an interesting offer for either somebody wanting an instant collection or somebody who has the time and energy to sell them singularly.

The bikes are:

1.Raleigh 1929. Black with red pinstriping. Age certified by the British Cycling Museum.Completely original,28 x 1 1/2" wheel size, Brooks saddle.

2.Raleigh 1948. Black with red pin-striping. Women's ,26 x 1 1/2" wheel size. Brooks saddle.

3.Raleigh 1960. Green Color, Sturmey Archer hub (3 speed and neutral).The bike has two lighting circuits, a front dynohub and batteries. Miller Bell, original lighting, pedals, Brooks saddle .26 x 1 1/2" wheel size.

4.Triumph circa. 1930. Green, 28 x 1 1/2" wheel size. Dual Ball-shaped fork crown with contoured mudguards.

5.Triumph circa.1930. Black with gold pinstriping. 26 x 1 1/2" wheel size, drum brakes fore and aft.

6.Windsor 1948. Black. Fully original with chaincase, rear carrier, Miller dynamo and headlight, Miller bell. 28 x 1 1/2" wheel size.

7.Phillips 1948. Blue. Fully original, 28 x 1 1/2" wheel size.

8.Victoria 1938. Black. 28 x 1 1/2" wheel size, Miller dynamo and headlight. Chainguard. Please note that the rims are not original. Built in Germany.

9.Victor 1948. Red Girl's bike. 24 x 1 1/2" wheel size. Fully original, Brooks saddle, Black Bakelite grips. (Sorry no photos available at this time)

10.Legnano 1937. Black. 28 x 1 5/8" wheel size. Fully original with full chaincase and internal rod brakes (the rod is inside the down-tube of the frame!) Built in Italy.

11.Torpado 1947. Green. 28 x 1 5/8" wheel size. Fully original with rod brakes and full chaincase. Built in Italy.

12. Fiorelli 1958. Yellow-Gold color. 28 x 1 5/8" wheel size. Fully original, with Weimann aluminum alloy rims. Built in Italy.

13.Wyeler 1948, Blue women's bike with full chaincase, rod brakes and carrier, 26 x 1 1/2" wheel size. Built in Italy.

14.NSU c.1950, Black women's model. 28 x 1 5/8" wheel size. Apart from the saddle, fully original. The front brake is a spoon type brake working on the front tire. The frame offers very low entry for women wearing dresses. With chainguard, carrier and mascot on front mudguard. Built in Germany

15.Dansk 1955. Burnt Copper. 28 x 1 1/2" wheel size. Miller Dynamo and headlight, Full chaincase. Built in Germany.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   New Maintenance Information Posted posted by: P.C. Kohler on 1/10/2003 at 11:45:37 PM
Check out the "Files" section of Roll Britannia for the following new maintenance information:

1) Spoke Length Chart

OK, enough back and forth on this!! Here is a COMPLETE chart for ALL Sturmey-Archer hubs and ALL British rim types includes length, gauge and cross information.

2) Servicing Dynohubs

Complete servicing details on the GH6, AG and FG dynohubs

More to come....

P.C. Kohler


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: New Maintenance Information Posted posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/12/2003 at 12:54:37 AM
More Servicing Sheets posted:

Sturmey Archer AW hubs

Rod Brakes