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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Fork needed posted by: Ray H. on 1/7/2003 at 10:01:55 PM
Hello all,

I am in need of a fork for a Raleigh Sports women's model. Preferably black with an 8" steerer tube. Please send replies to my email.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Whiteworth Path Racer posted by: Tom on 1/7/2003 at 2:35:39 PM
Has anyone seen this bike on Ebay. He claims this bike to be 1930's. Blumels, leather seat, f&r lamp holders, top bar shifter, K6 Sturmey hub. The only things that look out of place are the brakes and bars. Anyone know if this is a correct bike. He has another 1930's ladies bike also.
Thanks Tom http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=420&item=2153146091&rd=1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Whiteworth Path Racer posted by Tim Powell on 1/7/2003 at 3:12:00 PM
Nice machine, nothing wrong with it. Typical 1930's machine. Those brakes date it.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Whiteworth Path Racer posted by Chris on 1/7/2003 at 4:36:31 PM
These type handlebars are a treat.The bends we have are not as nice.

FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by: Ray on 1/7/2003 at 1:03:23 PM
Check it out, NMA


   RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Mark R. on 1/7/2003 at 4:55:14 PM
It's Indian. Has a lot of "nice" accessories, but ?????

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Warren on 1/8/2003 at 2:31:05 PM
but....they're crap? I think that's the sentiment being expressed here. They look right but the materials and workmanship are too shoddy to give you any long term satisfaction.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Ray on 1/8/2003 at 3:41:15 PM
Guess I am just taken by the fact that you have a complete 28 inch English style bike with all the trinkets and enclosed chain case in new condition for less than the price of a use chain case or a Huffy gas pipe bike. How bad can it be for 50 bucks?

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Chris on 1/8/2003 at 4:50:02 PM
On the news they show these bikes being ridden by masses of people in many diffrent countries. They can't all be crap quality wise can they?
The people ride all over everywhere, clipping right along and on a single speed model too.
Some are not good and others are acceptable I'm sure.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Mark R. on 1/8/2003 at 4:54:18 PM
Yeah, that was basically my sentiment because I have "some" experience with Indian roadsters. HOWEVER, if you could have a supply of rims, chain case, mud guards, and the odd piece here and there, and could buy one for $49, well maybe there is some good reason to buy one, no? Overall though, I'd be leary of any Indian roadster. This particular model originally was for sale by a company in NYC (retrobike.com?), and originally they claimed they searched around to find the highest quality Indian roadster they could. Well, who knows? I think for $49 a neophyte could probably have a lot of fun with one, especially if he took the trouble to add a three speed hub and such. As I recall though, they were asking $199 plus shipping. THAT, sad to have to say, is definately too much for one of these.The fellow who won the bid got it for $49 plus $45 shipping....I don't know if I'd want to pay that much for one or not unless I REALLY needed parts or something.
I hope he writes in here and lets us know what it is like.

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Mark R. on 1/8/2003 at 4:57:44 PM
Chris, they can be very bad. I suppose there may be a "good" brand out there, who knows? I'd like to see one, I really would, but my experience was very bad :-(

   RE:RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Have you seen this? posted by Mark R. on 1/9/2003 at 5:51:46 PM
I found out that I can pick on of these up where they store them, and I may do so since the price is OK I guess. If I do, I'll fill ya'all in.

AGE / VALUE:   Details wanted posted by: Peter on 1/7/2003 at 11:30:50 AM
Anybody out there got a Rudge catalogue for 1954 or thereabouts? I'm looking for the full original spec. and options for a 1954 Rudge Ulster Sports. Many thanks, Peter.

AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 front fork posted by: David Poston on 1/7/2003 at 7:14:32 AM
I have an older 28" DL-1 front fork which doesn't have the mudguard stay eyelet braze-ons like my original 70's era DL-1 fork. Is this normal? Did the older front mudguard stays loop directly over the front axle?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 front fork posted by Peter on 1/7/2003 at 11:29:40 AM
Yes they did, David - at least they do on mine. Strictly speaking the end of mudguard stay hangs below the wheel spindle, suspended by a small bracket that has a hole through which the axle goes.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 front fork posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 1/7/2003 at 4:39:37 PM
This varied. Sometimes looped around the axle and sometimes attached to a eyelet. Also the bolt became a screw.I have seen rear stays go around the axle and some to the rear backstay piece that is detachable.

MISC:   Cotter press for sale posted by: David on 1/6/2003 at 3:02:38 AM
Here's a big lot of Park tools on ebay
It includes a cotter press and a lot of other useful stuff; cone wrenches, cable tools, pullers, etc. If you don't want to buy it all [and sell what you don't need] you might contact the winning bidder and make an offer.

AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by: Chris on 1/5/2003 at 9:32:39 PM
If you don't have an enclosed chainguard and don't use a pant leg clip like the Terry trouserbands and you ride with longs pants. The pant leg cuff will flap into the front chainwheel and be run through the chain leaving a greasy black pattern depicting a chain onto your pants cuff. Also with this tell tale pattern you can't fib and say you don't know how it happened because they can tell by looking. Modern shops carry a velcro reflective leightweight band. I only got grease on one pair of pants and then I carried and used those pants clips. I had them on the handlebars or in the bike's bag when not in use on my pants cuffs. Being a fellow and not a lady in a dress I have missed out on the experience of having my party dress catch in the bicycle's rear wheel at speed but I can just imagine the outcome. I have no desire to see firsthand! This is why old ladies bicycles had the skirt guards made of string. Holes drilled into the rear fender are for skirt guards. Who's wife had this happen before string guards were invented? Today, most ladies wear pants instead of skirts anyways and this way they sell more pants clips. Unless you are a bicycle club racer, commuter in spandex or whatever they make bicycle clothing out of. Then the pant leg fitting around your ankle is closer.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by Ian on 1/6/2003 at 9:44:37 AM
Chris, if you would like some original metal trouser clips send me an email. I will donate a pair just to keep you out of domestic strife. Incidentally skirt guards carried on in vinyl form long after the string ones ended, they just fitted over the guard and tied to the ends of the axle with elastic. I can remember my mother taking me to the shops on a kiddie seat on the back of her bike in the early fifties and it had a skirt guard of this type which also stopped me sticking my toes in the spokes. Aren't mothers good to us?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by Chris on 1/6/2003 at 8:04:15 PM
Thanks for the offer, I have boxes of the Terry's trouserbands and still use the velcro reflective ones.

I have some plastic rear wheel guards on some of my mens model bikes, it was intended to keep splattering mud off of the rider. These were also sold as skirt guards. The old British Leico baby seat was scary. My playmate's mom had one on her bike and it's a miracle that Sue can walk today. How many kids got their foot caught in these? Few had proper guards to keep feet out of the rear wheel. The bike looks cool with that plastic form fitting mud guard cover. Later on the ten speed Miyata was sold new without a rear or front mudguard. "Been out riding it the rain, I see?"
Right after that, I got my first Raleigh Record Ace and was introduced to Blumels Noweights.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by David on 1/6/2003 at 10:10:48 PM
Even with an enclosed chainguard, you're liable to catch a pant leg on the cotter. And they always seem to be installed so that the catchier nut is on top instead of the rounded end.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by Warren on 1/7/2003 at 3:38:33 AM
Very observant David and if you check the archives (I think it was this list) , someone last year provided a detailed explanation of why the cotters should be oriented that way. In short, the physics of levers/moments/force etc say that is the best way to install a cotter for maximum strength and durability.

Just don't ask me to explain it...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by Edward in Vancouver on 1/7/2003 at 3:52:12 PM
The opposed mounted cotter nuts? Another "Ghost" I had to work out because it "felt funny" when I spun the crank. If you position the crank so both pedals are the same height off of the ground, you should see a cotter nut on one crank arm, and a cotter head on the other. If this is not so, the crank arms will not be perfecty spaced apart, and you'll get this weird "somethings not right" sensation as you pedal away. Just wondering, if S/A could make 3 speed hubs before 1915, why couldn't someone have figured out a better system to attach the cranks to the BB spindle?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pants clips! No greasy patterned pant leg cuffs on my new slacks posted by Ben on 1/8/2003 at 1:31:17 PM
There certainly was the technology to develop a better system, but the expense to produce cranks using other processes (splines and cotterless, for instance)was so much more than the "old reliable" that there was just never enough problem with cotters to change it. As you may know, advanced technology made it into the racing world in the late 50's, and was still too expensive for the average rider until the 60's.


AGE / VALUE:   Model Diagrams anyone? posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 1/5/2003 at 9:23:42 PM
Well it appears I have finally found both pages of the Raleigh Tourist National Service Division model diagrams.
Both pages, with photocopy quality that is readable.( excellent)
Now to just get these out to anybody interested.
This is for the modern 1960-s to 1980 version of the Raleigh Tourist D.L.1.
P.C., Please e- mail me your postal address so I can send these to you for the web group. Anybody else? E- mail a postal address and I'll send you a copy!

AGE / VALUE:   Phillips Questions posted by: Todd on 1/5/2003 at 12:46:39 AM
I recently purchased a bicycle with the following markings on it. I am hoping someone could help me identify the age and then answer some questions.
The bicycle is marked Phillips, Birmingham with the Lion logo. It is black, single speed, rod brakes, female frame, serial number M93334 with 12 5 on the second line, cut out "Phillips" on the pedal sprocket, Olympic leather seat, Dover handgrips, "Dunlop War Grade Tires," and no chainguard.
It is in pretty good shape but the chrome is shot on both rims and on the handlebars. The reason I got it is that I collect and set up WWII displays, primarily US Army Air Force and I was looking for a bike. My original intention was to paint it Olive Drab but I have ruled it out after taking a closer look at the bike. I plan on leaving the frame as is with just some cleaning up and maybe a little touchup in places. However, I am unsure as to what to do with the rims and handlebars. I guess I have two choices. One is to replace the handlebars and 26 x 1 3/8 rims. The other would be to paint the chome another color (probably black). I am asking you other English bicycle collectors what you would do. I plan on leaving on the original tires since they are in pretty good shape and the bike will see minimal riding anyway. If you suggest that I replace the rims and handlebars, do you have a source? How about innertubes?
My goal is to have a bicycle that would have been found on an American airfield in England during WWII.
PS. It also came with a "Wooster, Ohio, 1949-1950" license plate.
Thanks for the help,

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Phillips Questions posted by sam on 1/6/2003 at 12:12:02 AM
Inertubes can be had anywhere--even wal-mart.I also go with painting what you have as this was done in England.Infact Catfood-Rob(in England) is rebuilding a pre-war BSA and tells me they were done for WW1 and carried over through WW2.Mind you though painted rims and rod brakes really don't work as good as chrome.I'd use a tuff epoxy black primer not paint.If you really feel you should go with chrome , let me know I have a new set of rims and bar.And if you would really like to see a pic. of a british WW2 air field bike I got one here someplace.It's unlike any rod brake roadester i ever saw.What a great bike--army green,rod brake 26"x2" tyres(same size as schwinn midleweight),Pedal blocks 2" thick,with a chain that look like a motorcycle chain!A real heavy weight!--sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Phillips Questions posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/5/2003 at 3:22:33 AM
Todd-- sounds an interesting bike and project. English cycles and the US Army Air Force went together; in fact documentaries on the bomber bases in the UK 1942-1945 are a great way to see classic English roadsters!

I would suggest you paint the handlebars and rims black. All cycle companies, even before the war, offer what were called "all weather" models with normal chromed parts painted black since it was given these required less fussing over. During the war, it was also to replace chrome.

Getting a whole new Phillips handlebar set is easy: Cycles of Yesteryear stock them. Getting Westwood 26 x 1/38 wheels is a lot harder. Despite being told a 100 reasons why I shouldn't, can't and ought not to, I am continuing work on importing spares from India including new rims of this size and type. Hopefully I'll have some by March. But painting would be easy and authentic. Cycles used on bases were generally not painted army olive, they were just ordinary bikes.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Phillips Questions posted by David on 1/5/2003 at 2:09:10 PM
I've heard that these airfield bikes always wound up painted a million layers thick (tho WWII might have seen only the original layer). Have you talked to veterans who rode these bikes to find out about the status of the chrome, lights, etc?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Phillips Questions posted by Chris on 1/5/2003 at 9:22:32 PM
Neat find, and setting up displays is cool.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh history posted by: Peter on 1/4/2003 at 10:42:51 PM
This might be of interest - some Raleigh history and anecdotes from the factory: -


Pete, in the UK, who saw a 1950's Lenton Sports in his home town today and could not turn round quick enough to catch up with it. I'll find it though...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh history posted by Catfood Rob on 1/7/2003 at 8:55:18 PM
The Triumph road factory, the last one still standing (untill November 2002) had huge concrete murals... cast into the concrete ( made to look like stone) were 4 or 5 raleigh brand names... robin hood, rudge, triumph etc.
These were 6foot high slabs, about 2 foot long, each mural being 4 or 5 slabs long. There wwere several sets around the factory outer walls. I dont live near enough to keep an eye on them myself....( and my bedroom wall just aint big enough for them ) but Im sure they just wont be demolished.. will they????? There are apparently no plans for a Raleigh museum...seems Nottingham council are happy for Raleigh to fade away. Sad.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Trolling for bikes in the 21 century posted by Chris on 1/5/2003 at 8:50:49 PM
It got away?AWWWW!
After having this happen on too many times where the bike gets away I came up with an invention. You push a button and this small little gizmo is launched and it attaches to the clothing or backpack or onto someplace on the bike. It transmits a pulsing beacon and later on, when I have time, It gives the location of the bike and then you just go over and mention that you saw the guy on the bike and is it for sale?
Be sure to have the cash money in hand for them to be looking at when they try to tell you it is not for sale. They still may, but it is harder for them to turn you down. With all this tracking technology at our fingertips the cool bikes ( you could use it for other things too, I guess but I just use it for bikes) need no longer be slipping away. Sure, the old dude can vanish into thin air and be gone before I can turn around but this thing scans 360 degrees and once it is in the sights it flies up and lites on undetected. Runs on a 9 volt battery. Whole system cost $154.00 with each unit costing $8.64
If they are not interested in selling the bike, you just push the retrieve button and it returns back to base like a homing pigeon.
If I had this system in place that awesome vintage Cadillac herse (or was it a limo) would not have slipped throught my grasp without me ever asking is it for sale? It's mounted on the roof and ties in to an onboard video system with a program that scans for cool old bikes. The unit resembles a hummingbird. The next version is gonna have a built in 2 way radio that will act as a messenger service in case you are on the way someplace important and don't have time to stop and make conversation and exchange phone numbers and make a date. I can just here her now. "OOhh, He's an inventor! How romantic." I think I'll just keep using it for searching out bikes! I love the satallite and G.P.S. technology.
Now I'm just being silly here but one day (and maybe already) this will be reality but instead of finding old vintage bikes it will be used for other purposes. You wait and see!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh history posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 1/5/2003 at 9:09:16 PM
Things like a section of the wall and plaques and bricks with paint on them. The section of factory wall with the Raleigh Cycles sign should be saved for a display somewhere in a museaum or someplace. With all the collectors and folks who loved Raleigh, and some of them wealthy and crazy enough to do it. I wonder what is happening or has happened to the various possible souviners like this. Or is it all just being carted away as rubbish? If I was in England I would be asking to buy bricks and various signs. Buy it, secure permission, and cut away the bricks zand cart them away.
When it's gone, it's gone. Now I am asking "Where did it go? Who has it?"
The one brick wall with the Raleigh Cycles printing, Where is that now? It is (was) a beautiful sight. People from all over the world are following this but I don't know what is happening. I wish the guy would take more pictures and let us see them!

FOR SALE:   64 Raleigh Sports posted by: David on 1/4/2003 at 6:54:03 PM
I'd like to part with a 1964 Sports. 21" frame, dynohub and lights, hockeystick chainguard, whitewall tyres, B72 saddle. Overall condition is pretty good for its age, the chrome is shiny, etc. Contact me off-line if interested. Otherwise, I'll try ebay.

FOR SALE:   Cotter pin tool posted by: Tom on 1/4/2003 at 5:07:46 AM
This is what everyone needs. The VAR cotter pin tool on Ebay. Not my auction, I have a cotter pin tool. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27953&item=1986906417

   RE:FOR SALE:   Cotter pin tool posted by David on 1/4/2003 at 1:01:38 PM
Very cool tool. I'm tempted but I already have the Park tool and one shouldn't hoard these (are you listening, Chris?)

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cotter pin tool posted by Chris on 1/5/2003 at 8:54:38 PM
The V.A.R. tool? really. Buy it, buy it now! Before it is too late.
These get pricy!

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cotter pin tool posted by Chris on 1/8/2003 at 5:14:47 PM
People collect and hoard tools like nobody's business.

WANTED:   Recommendations? posted by: Mike P on 1/4/2003 at 2:54:08 AM
Before I box up Patient Wife's S3C hub and send it across to the UK...
Is there anybody Stateside that does first-rate SA hub overhauls?
Thanks a lot.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Recommendations? posted by Kim on 1/5/2003 at 11:27:51 PM
Vinny does those hubs right here at oldroads and they've got boatloads of parts.

   RE:WANTED:   Recommendations? posted by Mike P on 1/6/2003 at 3:04:39 AM
Thanks guys. I'll contact them all. Much appreciated.

   RE:WANTED:   Recommendations? posted by David on 1/4/2003 at 1:13:28 PM
I would trust Harris Cyclery (www.harriscyclery.com) because Sheldon Brown works there and you might try
Broadway Bicycle School
351 Broadway
Cambridge, MA 02139
They specialize in teaching people to fix their old 3-speeds, so they probably know about them, too.

   RE:WANTED:   Recommendations? posted by Michael McGettigan on 1/5/2003 at 6:32:09 PM
Greetings -- we at Trophy Bikes also overhaul S/A hubs -- though we have few or no spares for sc3 coaster brake hubs...
We found these hubs to be far less robust than most AW and other hubs by S/A... and we often recommend fitting a rear brake and converting the bike to a standard AW hub...
that said -- do try Sheldon Brown and make sure he has the spares for your particular hub...
McG/trophy bikes phila

FOR SALE:   52 Sports on ebay posted by: David on 1/4/2003 at 2:39:49 AM
Battered but complete, minus saddle, 1952 Sports. Looks like 23" frame, chaincase, dyno and lights. Only one bid at $10.

   RE:FOR SALE:   52 Sports on ebay posted by Mark R. on 1/4/2003 at 3:39:43 AM
I almost bid on that myself. I think it could be restored to good condition with just some elbow grease, and a little paint. It looks like it is all there.I think someone ought to jump on it. AND!! a full chaincase! Yowee!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   luck day...Roadster delivery posted by: Drew on 1/3/2003 at 11:11:55 PM
Every once in a while luck comes your way, last week I looked out my window as our garbage truck backed down the street and to my suprise, stapped to the side of the truck is was a Raleigh DL1! So of course I asked the driver about it....seems it was left for trash 5 streets away, so I offered him $35.00 for it, he was shocked that I'd pay this much for an old 3-speed, he gladly took the $35. Turns out to be a 1969 in rather good shape, about a 7 out of 10. You can't beat that a Roadster delivered for a super cheap price!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   luck day...Roadster delivery posted by Mark R. on 1/4/2003 at 3:42:17 AM
DAMN!!! I have ALWAYS wanted just that to happen!!!!!
Lucky bum :-)

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   luck day...Roadster delivery posted by Max M. on 1/7/2003 at 5:13:33 AM
Isn't that just the best way to get them. You have the adventure of haggling and don't even have to go to a dark alley. Good job.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   luck day...Roadster delivery posted by Mark R. on 1/4/2003 at 5:38:32 PM
OH! Can you send a photo? I'd love to see it! I'm sure everyone else would too!!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   luck day...Roadster delivery posted by Chris on 1/5/2003 at 8:56:30 PM
I would be dancing in the street and all happy because it had not already been crushed. They saved it!