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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Early 1900 CCM Bike posted by: Tom on 2/17/2003 at 2:48:06 PM
Here is a very early CCM bike on ebay. It has the rare headbadge that wraps around the frame 3 times. Wood wheels look good. The rear hub is a Hercules coaster with no brake arm, it is tightened between the frame and works good if adjusted correctly. The crank is also a rare 4 pin style and the crank bolts together from each side. This would be a great bike to display even with the dented rear frame. I have done some work with the seller before and he has some of the rarest old CCM and other Canadian bikes. Warren maybe this is one for you. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2160140470&category=420

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Early 1900 CCM Bike posted by Warren on 2/18/2003 at 2:47:59 AM
Thanks Tom...lovely bike but my bike fund is empty. I've seen a couple like it...the wheels are real hard to find.

WANTED:   Raleigh roadster 40's 50's posted by: RON on 2/16/2003 at 4:12:15 PM

FOR SALE:   NOS Sturmey front drum brake in box posted by: Kevin C. on 2/16/2003 at 3:03:11 PM
New Old Stock--Sturmey-Archer front drum brake, 36 spoke, with wrench, spanner, fork clamp, brake lever, cable. In original box. $125 postpaid.

MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by: Fred on 2/16/2003 at 7:30:20 AM

Could someone tell me which way to turn the bearing cup on a Raleigh Sport to remove the cup? My intuition tells me that it should be CCW but I have one that won't budge in either direction using what I think is reasonble force. Judging from the condition of the LH bearing I should just clean it, lube it, and leave it alone, but I stll would like to know the correct procedure.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Warren on 2/16/2003 at 1:39:39 PM
Hi Fred...the drive-side or fixed cup is a left-hand thread or clockwise to loosen. The adjustable cup on the non-drive side is normal.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Catfood Rob on 2/16/2003 at 9:23:12 PM
Drve side bearing cups arent made to come out, they were hot fitted at the factory before painting. They are real difficult to get out. Only try if it needs replacing...its far too much trouble to do it just for the sake of it. Yes, theyre left hand thread.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Chris on 2/16/2003 at 10:32:10 PM
Both sides of the Raleigh bottombracket cups both fixed and adjustible,were made to come out. Raleigh made a specific tool for this and anybody who had a Raleigh cycle and didn't want to be at the mercy of a local shop to perform maintence for them went and ordered this tool. As years went by and Raleigh was eclipsed by other makes these tools became obsolete. But at one time all the shops had this tool and stocks of cups both fixed and adjustable. Raleigh churned out these replacement parts by the millions and these tools also. That tool was made by British Bittool marked with Raleigh's code. If you look in the Raleigh literature you will see that specific code and the matching description that says bottom bracket removal tool.

All the die hard Raleigh cycle owners either already have this tool or have made up their own and many have already read Sheldon Brown's article on making up a bolt and nut system for cheap. There is a Stein tool for this also.
Yes, these cups are long lasting but eventually the groves become pitted and both cups get replaced.
Now the problem is finding replacement 26 T.P.I. bottom bracket cups especially the fixed one. Sources have dried up, and these seldom brcome available on e- bay. With all the interest in these bikes we still have not gotten some straight answer on this and it aggrivates me! and no plan has been worked out to find and purchase replacement Raleigh bottombracket fixed and adjustible cups. Still People hoard these, you can look in the shops and ask about and watch e- bay. I guess these must be hard to find. One thing for sure when you replace these parts the bicycle runs like new. The bottom bracket is the engine boiler room of the bicycle.
The removal tool?
Gee, this is the exact tool I was rambling on about just a few days ago. The one on e- bay? remember. "One is available" was the title.
One the fixed side the flats are not deep enough for a common wrench and the thing tightens up as it goes in and there may be truth about it being hot fitted at factory too. I won't disagree with that. But these come out, you bet they do and especially every time I lay hands on a Raleigh. I had a tool made and I hunted and own one of these tools. Raleigh's 26 T.P.I. house threading was eclipsed by the more common 24 T.P.I. threading that you can find bottombracket cups for still.
This is maddening, and people have gone to machinists for the crank spindle (the thing that goes in the bottombracket cups) but to replicate these cups? I never tried that route. I found drawers full but I went crazy first it was not fun. I pulled out a drawer and everybody in the place heard me yell, "Well, it's about freaking time!" Oh yes, these are things the mechanics and shop folks don't like to sell you as they hoard them for good top paying customers and personal friends who own Raleigh's. Not every place is like this of course. The guy I bought these from didn't care. He waved and I snaped them up. I was lucky.
Raleigh changed over to 24 T.P.I. The last 5 Tourist D.L.1.'s had 24 T.P.I. cups in the bottombracket.
What happened to those dies and machinery? Why can't we find replacement Raleigh bottombracket fixed cups today? Where is the tooling today? What foreigh factory can help us? Who will buy up a load and sell them? With all the die hard smart collector folks in England you would think this would not be a problem still. People know, but they are too busy with other things and there must be other good reasons why this is all stopped up.
These exact cups fit the Raleigh Chopper bikes and many replacement parts for the Chopper also fit the other bikes Raleigh made like the Sports and Superbe and the D.L.1 Tourist rod brake stuff. I mean to say that the headsets and cotter pins and many but not all of these parts fit interchangably.
Raleigh has not had this tooling in years now. But nobody ever has jumped up and written a post about where it went and found out how to find new, replacement bottombracket cups.
Do you know what happened to me on this matter?
It was unreal! I was referred to a guy who offered to have my old parts ground out smooth and he would send them back to me. It was gonna cost a fortune and I said no. That was crazyness. He said he would do this but it was really for display purposes. Display? then it don't matter. He was sober I think. I don't even think you can do this to Raleigh bottombracket cups and have this work in practice.
I asked who had the old n.o.s. stuff and please let me have that number and he said he knew of nobody who had those!
Yes, these replacement cups and the tool to remove them has gone nutty. A machinist would have to cut threads on the cups and can they do that? I would rather use original parts any buy from the folks who have found them.
All the factories and shops that turned out zillions of cycle parts are gone under or into non bicycle related things this was happening back in the 1960's.
Try the Veterans Cycle Club, become a member it the right thing to do.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Chris on 2/16/2003 at 10:42:29 PM
Sheldon Brown has written about this subject and most all others that you could ask about. Have you studied his pages?
He explains it all and so much better than I do too.
Go to http://www. Sheldonbrown.com
old bikes, Raleigh bicycles care and feeding, the glossery, where you look up 26 T.P.I. and a new article about updating old Raleigh's. The Raleigh Twenty article is helpful. He's already covered this stuff in detail.
Just not does not sell replacement parts like these because he probably cannot find them either. His web page is priceless! Take a look at what all he does offer and look at what they offer here too at oldroads.com or under parts at the top of the page here.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Ian on 2/17/2003 at 9:42:02 AM
I have a set of Shimano cycle mechanics spanners purchased about 1997 which still has a cutout in one to suit this type of bearing cup. It is a "complete hole" so to speak, in other words it is of the ring spanner type not an open spanner. It is quite possible you could still buy the set today. The other spanners are also useful, fitting the lochring and adjustable cup and also the steerring head nuts. They came in a blue cloth carry bag and were not expensive as I recall. Regards, Ian.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Fred on 2/17/2003 at 10:16:02 AM
Thanks to all who responded to my question. The depth of knowledge on such arcane subjects amazes me. As a result of your advice I think I will just let it be.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by PETE on 2/17/2003 at 7:43:31 PM
I have nos 26 tpi bb cups and NOS A16 axles. Check out

   RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Chris on 2/17/2003 at 10:48:27 PM
Make a note of this. Pete for replacement Raleigh bottom bracket cups. Save his web address.

God bless you, Pete!

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Frank in Boise on 2/18/2003 at 7:36:02 PM
In the "bottom bracket" section of the Harris Cyclery web page, Sheldon Brown lists LHS and RHS 26 tpi bottom-bracket cups at $19.95 ea. I don't know if he actually has them in stock.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Chris on 2/19/2003 at 2:00:16 AM
Well, we flushed out one and now maybe two folks who offer these.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Mike P on 2/21/2003 at 10:55:52 PM
Found a guy at my LBS who I'd heard knows more than just alloy and plastic stuff, so I took in the Sports for a complete overhaul of all the bearings today. I watched while he wordlessly, calmy removed the adjustable cup, then the innards, then inserted an old cotterless-type axle (threaded hole in the end). He then took this tool (will find out what it's called) used on cotterless cranks, threaded it into the axle, put it under a little tension, took the Park tool we use (HCW-11?), and with a few light taps of a rubber mallet, the original, never been touched fixed cup came right out with no damage. Absolute child's play in no more than two minutes. All the parts went into the Varsol, got thouroughly cleaned, inspected (no pitting!), polished, and replaced with new grease. New cotters were oriented properly, and seated with no muss, no fuss. A true professional in 2003. Amazing.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by alonzo on 2/22/2003 at 7:46:58 PM
I've heard about that technique. Never seen it, tho. So, the unknown tool threads on the end of the axle, or does it tighten up on the inside of the bottom bracket?

I'd also like to know what he used to remove and replace the crank cotters so easily.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh Crank bearing posted by Chris on 2/22/2003 at 8:01:17 PM
Give him the web address for here and have him answer questions like how to remove bottom bracket cups.
Ask him to follow the group's dicussion and use his expertise to answer and help people out and all of this on a ongoing regular basis for free.
I'd be delighted to see that. What happen is that folks in the business see bikes all day and don't want to be bothered with it after work. Of course there are wonderful exceptions to this but more sharp people involved would be

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dyno hub bearing servicing help please posted by: Robert on 2/16/2003 at 4:07:53 AM
Can someone please direct me to some instructions on serving a front Sturmey Archer dyno hub? I have read about how it can easily be demagnetized by improper disassembly and I don't want to go there.
I would also be grateful for any dimensional info you could give regarding the keeper that is use in disassembly.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Dyno hub bearing servicing help please posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/16/2003 at 4:20:34 AM
Complete Dynohub servicing sheet with diagrams etc. can be found in the "Files" section of Roll Britannia:


P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dyno hub bearing servicing help please posted by David on 2/16/2003 at 1:35:43 PM
The only critical thing to remember is that the generator armature and the ring magnet must be kept together. You'll remove the complete generator from the hub by removing the axle bearing locknuts and the four little bolts that secure the magnet to the hub, then tapping the hub so the generator (armature+magnet) comes out as a unit. You're unlikely to separate them accidentally; the magnet and its cover have some friction with the hub and the armature cannot come out first.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dyno hub bearing servicing help please posted by Robert on 2/16/2003 at 9:12:08 PM
Thanks, the diagrams were just what I needed.

AGE / VALUE:   Amazing posted by: P.C. Kohler on 2/16/2003 at 12:23:11 AM
eBay from the sublime to the ridiculous...


Just look at this gorgeous 1958 Raleigh Trent Tourist. Perfect except missing chainguard. Great white/black (or perhaps blue) livery. Dynohub. Original Brooks tan mattress saddle. 23" gents frame. Looks like it has 26 miles on it.

It just sold for....... £5 with one bidder.

Heck, the celluloid mudguards are worth eight times this.

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   The Veteran Cycle Club posted by: Matthew on 2/15/2003 at 7:07:09 PM
At the risk of sounding boring, and believe me I'm known for doing that, I'd like to restate a message that I've posted before. I think all the readers here would benefit from joining the V-CC. It is UK based with members worldwide. It has marque enthusiasts, who are specialists in various makes. A regular bi-monthly magazine with a very good classified ads. section with ads. like this :-

'Sunbeam Sports 1930's, resilion brakes, Sa hub, chain case, good condition, ride away, £75'

The magazine also has vet ride reports, technical stuff, and many other features. Better still than the mag are the members, knowledgable and very friendly (like the folks on these pages). You get far more than just another club membership if you join. This sounds like an advertisement, well it is, I know you would benefit from membership and as a member I should know. By the way I won't benefit in any way if you join up, other than knowing that you folks are part of the bigger fellowship too. Cost is about £24 sterling for overseas membership, give it a try? www.v-cc.org.uk

Have fun, ride safe, Matthew in chilly blighty.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Veteran Cycle Club posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/15/2003 at 7:46:37 PM
Yes, I agree.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Veteran Cycle Club posted by Ian on 2/16/2003 at 9:57:23 AM
I could not agree more. I am in New Zealand yet I still get good value from my membership of a club on the other side of the world. It is expensive, what with the exchange rate and bank fees for a bank draft (the English have not really cottoned on to the internet or credit cards yet!) but well worth it. I have had bikes identified, questions answered and parts found. I even had a member send me a Resillion brake free of charge "because he had several and that is what the fellowship of cyclists is all about". I did not let him get away with it though, I sent him something back that was probably of no use to him at all! The tech articles and ride reports listing makes and models I have never heard of are great but best of all is the atmosphere conveted so well old chap. Bite the bullet and send the money, Cheers, Ian.

AGE / VALUE:   Chain guard --Full? posted by: sam on 2/14/2003 at 11:47:03 PM
Not sure if this is a full guard,the one I saw that was like this only covered the front,but some of you might find it interesting--26" bike I'm sure.--no mine etc...sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:forgot....... posted by sam on 2/14/2003 at 11:51:35 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Chain guard --Full? posted by Ian on 2/16/2003 at 10:04:02 AM
Sam, over here that type of enclosed ghain guard is more common than the full one piece one. I also have some Wu-Yang ones from the Great China Bicycle Company like this one that fit English roadsters perfectly. Regards, Ian

MISC:   Where's first? posted by: David on 2/14/2003 at 10:02:07 PM
It's one of the coldest days of the year here in Boston and the Sports I ride around the work site abruptly lost 1st gear. Shifter is adjusted properly - no 1st even if pulled out to the limit. Could it simply be cold thick oil and the pawls are stuck?

   RE:MISC:   Where's first? posted by M.R. on 2/15/2003 at 3:48:03 PM
Yup! Single speeds only this time o' year in Bean Town bub :-)

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh RRA posted by: Tom on 2/14/2003 at 6:46:51 AM
Another Ebay Raleigh. This time a Raleigh RRA frame. Maybe worth bidding for someone with the parts to finish it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22681&item=2710229218&rd=1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh RRA posted by David on 2/14/2003 at 4:25:22 PM
Is the RRA a 531 DB frame?

AGE / VALUE:   pulleys posted by: Chris on 2/13/2003 at 11:07:49 PM
That box of 162 pulleys went for 40.00!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Clubman posted by: Tom on 2/13/2003 at 4:11:46 AM
I saw this nice old Raleigh Clubman on ebay. Where does this fall in the Raleigh lineup. It looks nice. Could easily be cleaned up from what the pics show.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Clubman posted by Ed on 2/13/2003 at 4:37:54 PM
Great project for someone.I don't recall ever seeing a Raleigh with those cutouts on the stem before. The item # is 2710398271.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Clubman posted by Matthew on 2/13/2003 at 8:05:12 PM
I think this is a well loved and much ridden machine, though maybe not recently. There seem to be several on going mods to this cycle, just as there are to many daily ridden machines. My own Falcon has wheels, tyres, saddle, mudguards, lamps, crank, gears all of which are replacements from original. This cycle looks like it has been altered along the years and in fact may not even be a 1950 model, although its hub certainly is of that vintage. the chrome dipped forks and the rear dropouts look later than the 50's and more like 70's items. The mudguards are a hotch potch and do nothing for the machine as a whole. As a base for modification it is good but rather pricey. I feel readers here could find better bargains than this. I am quite prepared to be maoned at for this opinion, but that's the beauty of this board. What do you think???

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Raleigh Clubman posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/13/2003 at 9:08:42 PM
I have had to double my "don't buy another Lenton" medication already, but my analyst said I could talk about them still. Just a bit.

This is quite original. The only headscatchers are the B-66 and the alloy "comfort flat" handlebars which belong on the Lenton Tourist not a Clubman. But that merely indicates to me that this substitution dates from 1950 as well. Both models were in production together that year and 1951.

In 1950 the Raleigh Clubman, Rudge Aero Clubman and Humber Beeston Cluman specs were changed. Fork and backstay/chainstays were chromed. Wheels changed from Dunlop 26" x 1/4 "special" lightweights to 27" x 1/4" stainless with Bayliss Wiley large flange continental hubs.

Here are the catalogue specs from the 1950 Humber catalogue. The only difference is the livery and headbadge. The choice of blue (Flamboyant Electric Blue) for a Raleigh club bike was quite daring; everyone knows they should be green! I am not sure if there was an option of colour in 1950 with Raleigh; there was none with Rudge or Humber:


"A particularly handsome machine, embodying the requirement of the keen club and racing man. * The Sturmey-Archer gears offered as alternative equipment are fitted with light alloy shells."

Frame: 22", Reynolds “531" tubing, fancy design lugs. Thin taper seat stays. Brazed mudguard and pump fittings.
Wheels: 27" x 1 1/4" Stainless Steel high pressure rims, Bayliss Wiley Continental Hubs. Stainless Steel spokes
Gear: 66.0" and 77.6" fixed.
Chainwheel: 3-pin detachable. 46T Flanged racing type.
Cranks: 6 ½" fluted.
Pedals: racing type.
Handlebar: Sylvere Maes, alloy bend. Adjustable stem, 2 ½" forward extension, head-clip fixing, special R.I. Rubber Sleeve Grips, coloured to match frame.
Brakes: light alloy calipers with hooded levers.
Mudguards: Detachable White Celluloid with Mudflap.
Saddle: Brooks B.17N best Butt Leather, finest quality, with chrome-plated undercarriage.
Seat pillar: Light Alloy.
Finish: Flamboyant Amber on Spra-bonderised rust-proof surface. Chromium-plated seat-stay, chain-stay and front fork ends.
Fittings: tools, best quality kitbag, inflator, reflector, lamp bracket on Fork Blade.
Weight: without kitbag– single gear, 25 ½ lbs.
Extras: Sturmey-Archer 4-speed gear (FC) close-ratio, £2. 17 s. 4 d.
Sturmey-Archer 4-speed gear (FM) medium-ratio, £2. 13 s. 4 d.
Sturmey-Archer 3-speed gear (AC) close-ratio, £2. 17 s. 4 d.

Price: £26. 16 s. 6 d. incl. tax.


The Clubman range was discontinued at the end of 1951 and replaced by the Raleigh Super Lenton, Rudge Aero Special and Humber Streak which had 21" and 23" frames instead of the 22" only.

P.C. Kohler, tempted but trying....

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Raleigh Clubman posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/13/2003 at 10:15:13 PM
Take a look at that front brake! I have never seen one of those brakes before! and there is writing on it about it being Hidiminum!
The ball end of the cable fits in the bottom. Excellent!
I cried out in pain at the sight of that break in the original equipment Blumels spearpoint front mudguard. Other pals I know that have and appreciate these mudguards would cry out or at least swear and feel bad that they cracked their mudguard.
These mudguard is good shape have sold for 75.00 alone

I like this bike very much! I'm delighted that P.C. has these catalogs to share with us.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Raleigh Clubman posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/13/2003 at 10:36:53 PM
Yes indeed.. I forget to mention that also in 1950 alloy caliper brakes and hooded brake levers were also introduced for the first time on the Clubman.

I am not sure if the mudguards (doubtless the originals on this machine) were by Bluemels, I think they were Britannialloy or at least are on a near mint '48 Lenton Clubman someone sent me some pix of. Me, I'm stuck with yucky black ones on my '48! Until I can find better. And the originals were a lovely cream colour too or is that just celluloid ageing?

I will shortly be posting in the Files Section of Roll Britannia a Raleigh Industries post-war club bike timeline, just wish I could get catalogues from 1952, 1953, 1956 from Raleigh, Rudge or Humber.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Clubman posted by Matthew on 2/15/2003 at 7:00:13 PM
I stand corrected, by some of the best, well done chaps!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Raleigh Clubman posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/19/2003 at 8:50:40 PM
Interesting.... didn't make its reserve and bidding stop at 15 bids, $255.00

See what happens to the Lenton market when the undersigned is under control and not bidding...

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   old bike posted by: rickey on 2/13/2003 at 3:05:33 AM

WANTED:   Raleigh Rim Wanted posted by: P.C. Kohler on 2/12/2003 at 6:24:00 PM
It's come down to this...

My long-suffering and appallingly expensive restoration of my 1948 Raleigh "Dawn Tourist" is complete except for:

1 32-hole, Raleigh Industries marked, dull centre section front wheel. Can be rim or wheel. Good chrome.

I am resisting temptation to use a later Sturmey Archer rim and before I succumb and invest in relacing with a GH6, I thought I would see if anyone out there has the proper rim/wheel...

Many thanks.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:WANTED:   Raleigh Rim Wanted posted by Ben on 2/14/2003 at 1:47:29 PM
Stay strong, P.C. You know full well you won't be satisfied looking at that mismatched rim.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Mark R. on 2/12/2003 at 5:56:35 PM

OH MY GOD!!! Check this out!!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Matthew on 2/12/2003 at 6:56:43 PM
Oh. Even my English reserve allows me to say 'Wow!' at this one. It is a beauty and not your average "found in a skip" (dumpster) machine. I can only look on and hope it goes to a good home to be set free and ridden.
Go ahead make my day, .......Buy it!

No relation to seller etc etc..

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Ed on 2/13/2003 at 4:22:46 PM
Never seen anything like it.Anybody know model,age or have any knowledge of it?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Mark R. on 2/13/2003 at 4:34:47 PM
Yeah, it's a very very early cross frame Raleigh roadster. Very rare, very cool, very desireable!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Cross frame Raleigh sighting   posted by Chris on 2/13/2003 at 9:46:00 PM
The Story of The Raleigh Cycle book by Gregory Houston Bowden has this bicycle in it. It's the only place I have ever seen one of these early cross frame bikes until now. Good to see one up for auction.
Better yet to get my grubby little paws on one but that will be awhile yet. This particular model will be years away for me. I do hope to own of these before I cash out.
Besides Copake, I don't know where you would find one of these.