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Archived: English Roadsters

FOR SALE:†††Brit stuff for sale posted by: Ray on 3/4/2003 at 2:58:59 PM
I have posted an English made leather touring bag in NOS condition on ebay.
I will soon be posting more Brit stuff like blumels fenders, pumps and some hardware so keep an eye out.

WANTED:†††Roadster bicycle 40's/50's posted by: ron on 3/4/2003 at 12:41:16 PM
any condition, must have enclosed chain guard rod brakes and 28 inch wheels.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††RALEIGH BOOKLET posted by: Ian on 3/4/2003 at 8:54:23 AM
Acquired today a nice little copy of the "Cycle Maintenance Hanbook" by Raleigh Industries. No way of dating it that I can see but it has a heap of useful stuff in it including gear ratio charts of all the hubs, how to connect up the Filter Switch Unit and Dry Battery Unit for use with Dynohubs etc (did you know that there was a Dynofour?). The setup that interested me most was to see an illustration of a rod operated drum front brake. Has anybody ever seen one of these? It appears to have a stirrup where the rim brake stirrup would usually be but with a pivot on the R.H. fork and a rod going down the left fork to the drum. I have seen both rod and cable operated rear drums but have only ever seen cable operated front drums. Any ideas what models these were fitted to and when? Thanks, Ian. p.s. Just discovered a picture of a front fork mounted lamp bracket that fits over a peg on the inside of the fork. Wasn't someone wanting to know the purpose of these pegs?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††RALEIGH BOOKLET posted by Tom on 3/4/2003 at 2:51:23 PM
Ian: have a look at this page. It is a Gazelle bike with the rod operated front hub. It looks to be on the right side of the bike. I have seen 2 other Gazelles that have these brakes. Have not seen them on any other bike. I have a friend who went to Holland a month ago and there was a ton of old British style bikes and a lot of Gazelles and most had drum brakes. He mentioned seeing many wheels locked to posts with no guts in the hubs. The rest of the bike was missing.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††RALEIGH BOOKLET posted by Ian on 3/4/2003 at 6:46:07 PM
Goodness gracious me, what a strange hybrid looking modern old bike, great to see you can still get something new that is built in the old way. Yes what I can see of the brake looks the same but the Raleigh booklet definitely shows the brake on the left. Looking at the other things in the booklet such as side stands etc I would say it is at least late 50's or more likely 60's or 70's. Thanks for your input. Regards, Ian.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: RALEIGH BOOKLET posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/4/2003 at 8:36:55 PM
Rod-operated hub-brakes on Raleighs are common and date back to the origins of hub-brakes.

The earliest Raleigh catalogue I have (a copy) is 1936 and shows the Dawn Tourist X models 19X and 20X, as being the models with this as standard fit.

1938: Dawn Super Safety X, models 13X and 14X, Dawn Super Safety Tourist model 20X, Standard X, model 25X.

1939: Standard X, models 25X and 26X, Special X, models 27X and 28X.

1940: Standard, models 25X and 26X and Special, models 27X and 28X.

all the above are rod-braked machines. Post-war, hub brake machines were offered by Rudge and Raleigh as well... but I'll need to check details.

And no, they never quite managed a Dyno-four hub-brake combo. You couldn't even have lifted that up to lace the wheel!!

P.C. Kohler

   ENGLISH ROADSTERS: RALEIGH Drum Brakes posted by Steve on 3/5/2003 at 1:42:26 AM
I also have several bikes with the rod activated front drum brake (and rod activated drum brakes on 3 speed rear AB hubs). The bikes are two Rudge Sports (1964, male and female) with 26" wheels and two Gazelles (1960, male and female) with 28" wheels. The man I bought them from was originally from the Netherlands and brought them here when he was transferred by his company; my understanding is that the drum brakes, especially rod activated, are popular in the Netherlands (along with full chainguards, tail lights mounted in the fender, and locks mounted on the seat stays), but harder to find elsewhere.

AGE / VALUE:†††new raleigh enthusiest posted by: Angela Denny on 3/4/2003 at 4:28:44 AM
I have found a gold womens Raleigh Sports at a thrift shop here in Los Angeles and am trying hard to date it. I was wondering if anyone could help. The wheel hub says 72, but the Raleigh lettering and cursive made in England on the cross bar as well as a fin with a chrome end on the front fender suggest that it is older. It does not have a full chain gaurd, but the logo is on it also. The serial number below the seat does not match any on the chart, it is 496120, and it is gold with white grips and saddle. I would love to chat with anyone who had any info. I am not very mechanical and will try to awnser my own questions, but if anyone would like to correspond with me I know I will need advice on restoration. I cant wait to hit the pavement.
The book rack does have a Pat.# and Reg. #.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††new raleigh enthusiest posted by M.R. on 3/4/2003 at 11:53:52 AM
72 sounds about right. Mine is mid 70's, and is exactly the same.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††new raleigh enthusiest posted by sam on 3/4/2003 at 10:00:15 PM
I have a gold Raleigh dated 1972.Has the twist grip shifter.White grips and seat.(Didn't we all wear white shoes and belts back then?)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††new raleigh enthusiest posted by Angela on 3/5/2003 at 12:40:30 AM
Sam, does yours have the chrome "blob" on the front fender? The right grip does twist. Can a average bike shop repair these?

   †new raleigh enthusiest posted by Steve on 3/5/2003 at 1:48:34 AM
Angela, Virtually all of the Raleighs I've seen from the early 70's have the chrome "blob" on the front fender. I've seen a few bikes from the 70's with the twist grip. I've read that the more common trigger is more reliable and easier to use than the twist grip; since the bikes I've seen with twist grips were in poor shape, I can't say.

As for bike shops, my experience is that most bike shops shouldn't have trouble with minor work like replacing brake shoes, chains, or tires; there will be 1-2 local shops (but no more) that will rebuild the hub internals, but it is very unlikely that this is necessary.

   RE: new raleigh enthusiest posted by Chris on 3/5/2003 at 6:28:46 PM
The blob is also called a bullet and I have had requests for this part.I have been saving icky Raleigh fenders because of this part on them. The older bikes had this but they were smaller and better finished back then. I have a tiny Sir Walter decal behind this on my 1948 Raleigh Gazelle.I have seldon seen this decal on other bikes so it is something that got discontinued about that time.
Welcome to the group!

AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by: Frank in Boise on 3/3/2003 at 12:09:30 AM

As I recall from recent discussions, people are disappointed to lukewarm with regards to the Kenda EA3 tires, however I noticed the following Continental tires on Sheldon Brown's web site:

37-590 26 x 1 3/8 EA3 Continental Top Touring 2000

They cost about twice as much as the Kenda tires...
Does anyone here have any experience with the Continental tires? Are they significantly better than the others?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Warren on 3/3/2003 at 1:32:17 AM
They are one of the premium tires on the market if they bear any resemblance to the rest of theTop Touring 2000 sizes. They used to be the spec tire for most fully loaded touring bikes in the industry. I think they are now blackwalls...they used to have the traditional conti dark brown sidewalls. Neither look very vintage but they would be good value for a daily rider. Good tires are a great investment in both ride quality and durability. The trick is getting them on sale.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Edward in Vancouver on 3/3/2003 at 4:18:19 PM
I've got Kendas on my bikes, and I buy the tire for two and only two reasons.
1) Cheap like Borscht
2) Every bike shop and hardware store carries them
This just about sums up the quality and other issues about the tires.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Willie L. on 3/3/2003 at 6:20:52 PM
I'd like to share my experience with Kenda 26 X1 -3/8 tires. Purchased three of them from two bike shops and found that they all had this strange out-of-roundness or size problem. I could not get the tire bead to sit properly on the rim. There was a sort of flat spot where the bead would fall below the rim (Raleigh pattern). Bought the Hutchinson gum walls that Sheldon's store sells, problem gone. The Hutchinsons, by the way, are extremely light and make a Sports feel like a racing bike. The tire is unusually narrow, barely wider than the rim, and has thin treads.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/3/2003 at 11:09:09 PM
Well, I hate to admit it: I have a new pair of Kendas on my 1948 Raleigh Dawn Tourist. Bought them from Harris. Block tread pattern that is "kinda" traditional roadster looking. They have enough "bulk" in appearance and seem to fit Westricks rims very nicely. And in between snowstorms, I have managed a few good rides on my outshopped machine and she runs very nicely on these. Very nicely indeed. Excellent traction, quiet. So far so good. I don't know how long they will last; the way the weather's been lately, the nobbly bits will still be on the tyres by June!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Matthew on 3/3/2003 at 11:14:22 PM
I had the same experience as Willie but with Vredstein amber wall tyres. Out of round and pretty much useless. You can't beat a good old Michelin (not easy to source) but I also use the dubiously named 'Golden Boy' brand too. they're cheap as chips and not too bad on the wear front either. Typically £3 / tyre in most sizes. Cheerfully inexpensive but not the best, Bibendum has that accolade.
Regards, Matthew, enjoying the early spring sunshine.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Mike on 3/4/2003 at 1:54:29 AM
I run the TopTouring 2000s, 26x1 3/8 on a Sports, and 27x1 1/4 on a loaded Peugeot UE-8 and like them very much. They are blackwall with a silver (not the usual Conti orange) label. The tread, however, doesn't look very vintage as it has a very 'angular' design. Mounted, they seem to look wider and more substantial than the Kendas, Summits, etc, but as stated above, the Kenda 'block tread' version has a more classic look, like a 50s-60s Goodyear or Kelly and are much cheaper. BTW, was initially disappointed to see the Contis are 'Made in Thailand', but they don't seem to be inferior in any way to the Euro production. Just my $.02.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††My feeling on this subject posted by Chris on 3/4/2003 at 2:09:04 AM
What I think will eventually happen is the tires that Harris sells, these Continentals will become harder to find and (or) then all of a sudden they won't be in the new catalog.
They'll drop off all together.
Of course Sheldon is on top of these things and I have no real idea how long they'll be available and I do not have a crystal ball either.
Still myself, this is a thing I personaly am wary on and it wouldn't hurt to have a few extra on hand. I have seen too many things vanish from the catalogs.
Then you go looking and they tell you, Sorry, that's been discontinued.
A thing to squirrel away this may be. It is in transition these commuter bicycle tires.
Sheldon and others may well disagree with me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††My feeling on this subject posted by Mike on 3/4/2003 at 2:48:18 AM
I totally agree. For the US market, what do we have in EA3 size? A relative handful of British bikes and millions of the department store bikes, most of which will never have $70 spent on them in their entire service life, much less $70 in tires alone. Have thought about ordering a set of the Michelins or Schwalbes from the UK, just to compare, but I also see high quality tires in this size disappear in the US. When I ordered the EA3 Contis from my LBS (Raleigh dealer), which does a fairly large and diverse business, they let me know that it was the first special request in this size for anything better than their stock Kendas in many years.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:†††My feeling on this subject posted by Chris on 3/5/2003 at 1:39:56 AM
Some shops take the idea that they want to snuff that old stuff out and they stop carrying it on purpose. I walk thru it all looking in horror. OOHH!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by David on 3/5/2003 at 12:11:32 PM
Do you think the difficult tires are actually out-of-round? I suspect the failure to seat properly may be due to either the rim being slightly larger than 590mm or the tire being slightly smaller. Or maybe some beads have a slightly greater amount of stretch (even steel stretches a little) than others. Has anyone tried measuring several Sports rims of different styles or manufacturer? Or did any of the troublesome tires get tried on different rims?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/5/2003 at 12:51:48 PM
This problem is actually quite common. There is even a tool made by Park Tool Co. that may help. http://www.parktool.com/tools/PTS_1.shtml
So far I've used other methods to seat stubborn tires. Of course the easy way out is to find tires that can be installed without this problem. Just thought I'd mention since I've been getting tires to match rims for 32 years.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: EA3 tires for Sports etc. posted by Chris on 3/7/2003 at 1:38:15 AM
Some tires need that tool and it's a good thing to have.
Without it you go riding up to the pharmacy and come out with a can of red pop and here the tube has crawled out of the tire and expanded and BAM! Everybody comes running out, you're emabarased and wheeling it home with a flat.
Yup, that tool is a good thing to have. Don't go riding without it.

Of course some tires fit better than others too.However there is no set thing you can do as it may be the rim also.

AGE / VALUE:†††Madness posted by: P.C. Kohler on 3/2/2003 at 11:52:32 PM
Keep repeating.. it's only a hobby.. a HOBBY...

eBay. Perfect pair of gorgeous cream-coloured celluloid mudguards for my 1948 Lenton Clubman. Starts at $30, I bid up to $137 (!) and I still LOSE!! I HATE THIS. Hate it. I mean that's more than I've paid for entire machines. And now someone else has MY Clubman's mudguards.. probably will use whem on a Nishiki what's it or let them molder in the basement.

I need to find a new hobby like string collecting. Well, at least I don't have to sell all the swell British bike stuff I had earmarked to pay for this folly.

P.C. Kohler, eBay'd out

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Madness posted by sam on 3/3/2003 at 4:05:04 AM
I went way over the top and put in a bid guaranteed to get the bid. Maybe it was because I haden't won anything in a long time--just got tired of getting shot down by a dollar.Lucky for me they're peolpe crazier than me!A couple of months later got what I wanted for $39!!!They'll be more.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:¬†¬†¬†Madness posted by Chris on 3/3/2003 at 9:17:54 PM
Ask the old cycle bits fellow about this.

AGE / VALUE:†††triumph 3speed bicycle posted by: rich on 3/2/2003 at 1:32:16 AM
I DUG A TRIUMPH BIKE OUT OF THE SNOW BANK IN MPLS.its black 3 speed sturmey-archer hub thumb switcher aluminum badge all original as far as i can tell minus left pedal (ITS BROKE) ANY INTERESTED COLLECTORS AND ANY WORTH TO This bike? also are there any instant messages too talk about older bikes? thank-you rich

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††triumph 3speed bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 3/2/2003 at 8:43:44 PM
$50-$100.00 tops
Maybe a bit more depending on where you are and condition of it. Why don't you try e- bay?
A mens bicycle is worth more.
Good find.

MISC:†††New online collectors bicycle Showroom posted by: Tim Gunn on 3/1/2003 at 6:48:17 PM
Hi all, I have a new website now up and running, at http://www.theoldbicycle.co.uk
There is a my new online Collectors Bicycle Showroom,I will soon be posting alot of English Roadsters and there is already bicycles on it,I sell bicycles and ephemera from 1818-1960. Go to the Site and have a browse, hope you enjoy
Kind Regards Tim Gunn

MISC:†††Interesting find posted by: bacoes on 3/1/2003 at 5:41:34 PM
I'm not sure what I found this time. It looks more like a middleweight, but definately not american. The bike has a cottered crankset and a forged stem. The coaster brake hub has an oiler hole on it and the arm says something like Komer... and Super on it it. It also has a Garelli saddle. Of course it's been repainted, but it seemed odd enought to save from the trash.

   RE:MISC:†††Interesting find posted by David on 3/2/2003 at 1:02:09 PM
"Komet." I think it's a German or Austrian hub - German-speaking bike?

   Komet-Super posted by samn on 3/2/2003 at 6:26:44 PM
Komet-Super hubs were made by Fichtel& Sachs

MISC:†††Interesting items on ebay... NMA posted by: David on 3/1/2003 at 12:21:42 PM
Raleigh folder

26" rod brake, dyno, DBU, chaincase

Very nice Humber Sports, chaincase, B66

MISC:†††Dynohub keeper on ebay posted by: David on 3/1/2003 at 11:48:30 AM
This is very useful if you're trying to determine which Dynohub magnets are good and bad! Or if you want to send a bad one to Eric Hjertberg! NMA


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††New Hudson De-Luxe posted by: Jamie Middleton on 2/28/2003 at 3:11:17 AM
I have a New Hudson De-Luxe single speed bicycle I picked up while living in Malaysia (a British colony until 1953). There is very little literature on the net, except that the New Hudson bicycle company was founded in 1890 but stopped making bicycles, making motorcycles instead from 1903. Can anyone tell me about this bicycle or where I might look for further info on it's age/value?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: New Hudson De-Luxe posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/28/2003 at 3:57:32 PM
New Hudson made bicycles until about 1957-58 or should I say BSA made cycles under the New Hudson brand until then when they (BSA-Sunbeam-New Hudson) were bought by Raleigh. The BSA and Sunbeam brand continued but not New Hudson. I am not sure when BSA acquired New Hudson; check Sheldon Brown's site.

New Hudson was the "popular price" BSA brand like Robin Hood/Gazelle was for Raleigh-Rudge. But it was hardly inferior. I have what must be one of the last New Hudson catalogues, 1955-56, and you could hardly wish for more than the specs of the "Meriden" de luxe Tourist. They had a full range including "Silver Streak" and "Silver Arrow" club bikes.

New Hudson is this week's "cover girl" in Roll Britannia.

P.C. Kohler


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: New Hudson De-Luxe posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/28/2003 at 4:00:20 PM
New Hudson made bicycles until about 1957-58 or should I say BSA made cycles under the New Hudson brand until then when they (BSA-Sunbeam-New Hudson) were bought by Raleigh. The BSA and Sunbeam brand continued but not New Hudson. I am not sure when BSA acquired New Hudson; check Sheldon Brown's site.

New Hudson was the "popular price" BSA brand like Robin Hood/Gazelle was for Raleigh-Rudge. But it was hardly inferior. I have what must be one of the last New Hudson catalogues, 1955-56, and you could hardly wish for more than the specs of the "Meriden" de luxe Tourist. They had a full range including "Silver Streak" and "Silver Arrow" club bikes.

New Hudson is this week's "cover girl" in Roll Britannia.

P.C. Kohler


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: New Hudson De-Luxe posted by David Poston on 2/28/2003 at 4:59:31 PM
My most recent acquisition is a New Hudson 28" wheel, rod brake, single speed roadster from a seller on e-bay who I think has posted on this forum before. I have to receive the bike, but I am anxious to find a definite date on it. He claims it is c. 1950, but I believe it could be older. I wonder if the serial number would help in dating this. I would love to learn more about the New Hudson line, and whether my newest acquisition was made by BSA or earlier.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: New Hudson De-Luxe posted by Kevin C. on 2/28/2003 at 6:07:23 PM
I have a New Hudson commuter bike (narrow, 20-inch wheels; levers to adjust seat and handlebars, luggage rack, etc.) that is all original, gold with green fenders. The three-speed Sturmey hub is dated 1973. There is no way this bike is from the 1950s.

AGE / VALUE:†††interesting site posted by: sam on 2/28/2003 at 2:23:39 AM
This new site out of England might be of interest www.theoldbicycle.co.uk

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Frame pump posted by: Brian on 2/27/2003 at 11:00:19 PM
Anyone got an extra made-in-England frame pump to sell or which would fit between the pump pegs on an old Raleigh Sports? The black colour pumps highly preferred-ala Apex, Britannialloy, or Raleigh-branded.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Frame pump posted by jon on 2/28/2003 at 5:36:09 AM
is england good

AGE / VALUE:†††Frame angles posted by: sam on 2/27/2003 at 6:08:14 PM
Takin in to account that my measurement can be off a little--I've measured the 1920Mead(schwinn) frame with 68 degrees for the head tube and also 68 degrees for the seat tube.How do these angles compair with the DL/1? (also this mead has a 22" frame)---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††Frame angles posted by Robert on 2/27/2003 at 7:41:45 PM
Check out this drawing, Sam.