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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   wow what a bike posted by: !!!!!!!!! on 4/29/2003 at 11:31:48 AM
no relation to owner go to
then go to Archive Bicycles
go to bottom of page and there is a sweet 65 roadster with the works, nice piece.

MISC:   serial # on frame, what year is the bike? posted by: ron on 4/29/2003 at 1:58:21 AM

MISC:   brooks leather seat repair posted by: ron on 4/28/2003 at 11:10:13 AM
hey guys how should I repair an old b90 seat witch has a tear almost across the front point of the seat? Someone told me to take it to a shoe repair, I just don't want the tear to go all the way across, the seat is in great condition besides this.

   RE:MISC:   brooks leather seat repair posted by Clyde on 4/29/2003 at 12:13:34 AM
I've extended the life of a couple of Brooks saddles (B-72) by pop-riveting 3 rivets about one inch behind the stock brass rivets. No, it not pretty, but for a beater seat (and who likes to break in a new saddle by riding 1000 miles) it has worked for a few years. Just avoid the rails and tensioning bolt, but aim for the back end of metal nose piece. You could of course remove the rails and tension mechanism to get enough access to set real brass rivets (from the hardware store), but the pop-rivets (with wider washers if necessary) can be installed without disassembly. Good luck.

   RE:RE:MISC:   brooks leather seat repair posted by Edward in Vancouver on 4/29/2003 at 12:41:51 AM
Check to see if you have any "Lee Valley" stores in your area, they specialize in wood working and gardening tools. The store also carries heavy two-part copper rivets available in three sizes. These rivets are similar to ones found holding wood handles to good quality knife blades, and they will work fairly well for saddles. You might also try you luck "at the races", that is, saddle and tack shops for horse saddles.

AGE / VALUE:   Late model Sports? posted by: Geo on 4/28/2003 at 12:07:55 AM
I saw what appeared to be a complete stock Sports. I noticed it had a plastic head badge and something really surprising a Shimano internal 3-speed. Did they put these on near the end. Almost bought it but was one of those people that when you show some interest they add a couple more bucks on the already agreed upon price, so I decided they could keep it in thier shed, I'm not that desperate.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Late model Sports? posted by JONathan on 4/28/2003 at 4:13:06 AM
That seems strange. The Shimano "333" 3 speed hub is on my Japanese 3 speeds and it appears on the cheaper 3 speeds; the ones I've seen. Maybe it was swapped for a the SA hub that was one it. Raleigh owned Sturmey-Archer so it would only make sense to expect the SA hubs to be OEM component. I have a 3 speed "Sprite" from 1977 that's SA (AW) equipped. The Shimano doesn't have the same quality as the Sturmey-Archer. You did right. They don't really want to sell their bikes, anyway...the hoarders, I mean.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Late model Sports? posted by J. M. Vernooy on 4/28/2003 at 11:12:36 AM
That sounds like the model that was made under license from Raleigh in the USA that was more Huffy than Raleigh. I think it was durring the 1980's that Huffy was licensed to make Raleighs in the USA for the USA market. The only thing Raleigh about those was the name. If that's what it was, then it was good that you left it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Late model Sports? posted by Mark R. on 4/28/2003 at 7:48:20 PM
Nope nope nope! Someone simply replaced the original wheel with a cheapy. You're just as lucky you didn't get it. Forget about it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Late model Sports? posted by Geo on 4/28/2003 at 10:17:18 PM
I would have to tend to agree with JM. The head badge did say Raleigh USA and judging by the people selling the bike I don't think they would have had the inclination to swap rear wheels. I will say I am not and never do lose much sleep over these deals.

AGE / VALUE:   Lost the scent and it bites! posted by: Chris on 4/27/2003 at 9:02:23 PM
When they have more stuff than they can handle things get misplaced. I have six already, am trying to get the other 12 -14 more. I don't know if there really are more or if he's pulling my chain.
Did somebody else get them? Price is stable and I have not put my foot in this one that I can tell, it's just that he's saying "Can't find them!" Also: "Too busy, have other things going on, it's spring and they'll be repairing bikes and crabby because of the heat!
There is so much piled all over it's driving me nuts. It's all in my way. Everything is new junk kids bikes so much of it is really fit for scrap. If it were mine I'd be doing a clean out big time.
I'll stay on this until I know what the deal really is.
Six of these might be all the getting I'm gonna get.
Picked up an ELDI tool but I don't know what in the heck it does. Lovely finish! It's in the tool box with all the other tools and for a junior tool magpie I think I'm doing pretty well. Oh not like the other fellows here. I'm persistent and that has been good. Tools have been strange, I sent one to a pal and even he did not know what it did.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lost the scent and it bites! posted by paul on 4/28/2003 at 11:56:11 PM
The ELDI is an emergency spoke tool, looks like a pair of springloaded pliers. It's used to cut a longer spoke to a shorter length and forms it as a temporary replacement to the one that broke. paul

AGE / VALUE:   One DONE!!!! A pile more to go.... posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/27/2003 at 6:01:09 PM
Well, just this AM finished up my first "restoration". A rather nice, green Sports (1968). Has a rack on the back and a Brooks leather saddle (BTW: Recommend McGuiar's One Step leather care as it is completely solvent free). While in good shape, the bike obviously has some of the typical "hangar rash" here and there... and someone had replaced the front axle and the chainring aint original either. Slapped a set of Wal*Mart Cheng Shen tires on it (sorry, it's not a showpiece bike and I'm a bit of a pragmatist) and by golly, she's a decent example of an English Roadster. And she rides wonderful... not a rattle to be heard.

Speaking of which.. I recall a thread on "Bullet Rattle"... and I bilieve that I've come up with a solution that works... Get yerself a pair of FLAT JAW pliers... and ever so gently "crimp" the bullet closed.... a little at a time... until the bullet stops rattling!

Selling this baby to a friend of mine.... Just wondering if $80 seems a little too high a price.... don't wanna be ripping anyone off.... let a lone a good friend.

Let's see.... which one is next.... Oh... I know.... the 1968 all Black Sports... that baby is MINE!!!!!!



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   One DONE!!!! A pile more to go.... posted by Chris on 4/27/2003 at 9:01:29 PM
You said there was another one out at the kerb that you could not have taken because you were already loaded down and you had no more room.
I would have knocked at a house someplace and explained it and asked them to hold it for me. Or locked it someplace to return for it later. I would be sitting by the kerb with the bike thinking how to save it and "Have one more"
This way, when the pickings get thin and I complain to the "gods of curbpicked" bikes about the poor or non- existent pickings they can't say: "Well, you passed that one up! last time" (grin)
Oh, well!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   One DONE!!!! A pile more to go.... posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/27/2003 at 9:10:35 PM
Yeah... no kiddin'. Was discussing that scenario with someone at work... showing him a pic of the truck fully loaded and he sez.... "Gee, why didn't you just drop the tailgate and lash the last one across the back?"


Oh well.... next time then aye?



AGE / VALUE:   QUESTION??????? posted by: WHAT YEAR IS THIS SERIAL # on 4/27/2003 at 2:33:00 PM

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by: Joe on 4/27/2003 at 8:01:23 AM
Hi, I am trying to find the origigin of a bike I just picked up. The headbadge says Schwinn but the frame says made in England. It has a Sturmey Archer 3 speed rear hub, on which the date is not fully stamped, that reads just
?7 - 7. It has a Dynohub up front with fender mounted headlight, painted to match fenders, steel brake calipers, leather saddle, and what apears to be stainless steel (or a different type of plating than regular chrome, I haven't had the chance to give them the magnet test) rims.
I found this at a yard sale in PA, the farmer said he had had it for at least 30 years in the attic. The condition is almost new, it doesn't look like it has been ridden much and everything is pretty well preserved with no rust and almost perfect paint. A good serious cleaning and some fresh lube and I'm sure it would look like new.
I just have never ran acrossed an English made Schwinn, it looks a lot like a Raleigh, but the Stainless Steel looking rims are new to me. The tires are marked "tubular" but apear to be somewhat normal as well. Judging by overall appearance, it looks to be all original, down to the rubber. The handgrips appear to be leather also? I have seen a few Raleigh Sports from the '60's era, but this looks older. The hub not having a good date stamp is mainly what is preventing an age ID.
If anyone here has any info on these as far as posible time period or year and do they have any collectable value?
It had originaly caught my eye since I am always looking for old road bikes and parts. I happened on it by chance and for less than the cost of a used department store bike.
I have always had an interest in old English bikes and figured that one day I would happen across a good project, but never figured to find one with a Schwinn badge.
Can anyone help ID this bike or know anything about English Made Schwinns?
Thanks, Joe

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by Jeff R on 4/27/2003 at 12:19:14 PM
The front hub should have a date stamp also. What are the size of rims? 1 3/8 EA3, or 1 1/4 EA1 or maybe Schwinn S-6 the size should be stamped into the rim or molded into the tire. The Schwinn S-6 tire will fit on the Dunlop EA1 1 1/4 rim. A British bike should have 32 spokes on the front rim and 40 spokes on the rear. Schwinn has 36 spokes front and rear.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by David on 4/28/2003 at 2:15:58 AM
Dynohubs generally have a date stamp, too. Some details of the AW hub could be telling; the type of oil cap, the style of the "Sturmey-Archer" stamp, steel or alloy shell, etc. I saw some leather Brooks grips on ebay once. I think they dated from the 70s. (Later Phillips, at least, often have 36-36 spoking rather than 32-40. I'd guess that became common after some date.)

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by Joe on 4/28/2003 at 6:02:39 AM
David, The rear wheel is 40 spokes and the front is 32, the stamping is faint on the Dynohub and appears to be a 57 and a 6 sood after it. The grips are either leather or something else with a grain texture, they are hard as a rock though. Definitely not rubber. They do not say Brooks on them anywhere. The tires are 26 1 3/8" Dunlop rubber. The rims say something like Westminster or West..something and a magnet will not stick to them. The rear hub is satin in finish, but a magnet will stick faintly to it's center housing.(Pretty strong magnet though, it may be picking up the internals). The headbadge says, SCHWINN and also says made in england as does a decal on the seatpost.
The only thing that brings attention to Schwinn is the headbadge.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by Ken on 4/28/2003 at 1:56:30 PM
I would love to see a picture of the headbadge and seatpost decals. The alloy rims are interesting too...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Schwinn Made in England? posted by Joe on 4/29/2003 at 5:50:37 AM
Ken, I don't have a camera handy but I will get some pics of it soon, the headbadge is different from any of the American versions I've seen and states made in England on it. The rims are not alloy but appear to be stainless steel or a dull plating, a magnet sticks to them but not well, they show absolutely no signs of corrosion what so ever, just dusty.
I had always known Schwinn had bikes made in the later years in Japan by Panasonic and Giant but never in the earlier years. I saw a set of what appeared to be the same rims on ebay and the seller listed them as Stainless Steel, they were in England and listed as OEM Raleigh.I also spotted another Raleigh listed as having SS rims
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&item=2171094188&category=420) on ebay, this bike is similar as is the front fork design and pump mount. Mine does not have the headlamp mounted up high like this one and has a dynohub. My chainguard is different as well.
My biggest question is has anyone ever heard of a Schwinn made in England and where can I find info on these?
Also, what is the posibility that this was meant for sale in England and not the US?
Thanks, Joe

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Fixed Sports posted by: brent on 4/27/2003 at 2:04:08 AM
I made use of track rear wheel that was currently frameless and fixed up a '62 I had in the garage. It really makes for a different kinda ride.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh made Royce Unions posted by: J. M. Vernooy on 4/26/2003 at 10:55:36 PM
I'm reluctant to make the point that there are bicycles that I like that are made in England but are not neccessarily made by Raleigh for fear of driving up the demand and therefore the price before I get to buy the one, or ones, that I want. Sure, one of the nicest is the Raleigh DL-1. But what about some of the others? I think that the most cheaply made British bicycle from the 1960's is far in quality above what the average bicyclist today thinks of as a good bicycle. I saw a ladies' Royce Union a few weeks ago that was made in England. It looked like another Raleigh-made bicycle from the 1960's like 1960's Triumphs, Robin Hoods, etc., and probably was. It wasn't in the same league as a DL-1 or a Lenton Sports, of course. But the owner said that she had just gotten it a few days before and that she loves that bicycle. I could just tell that they would probably be together for a long time. I didn't know for sure, but that plain Royce Union made by Raleigh as one of their economy lines, may have already outlasted its first owner. It certainly was classier than the bicycles around it with the possible exception of some of the ones costing over $1000. I probably wouldn't part with much money for a Royce Union. And only one made in England would cause me to consider saving one for even as much as the price of the used three speed hub, as it is not my favored brand of English bicycle. But there it was, loved by its owner, chrome gleaming, paint shining, showing much less than what should be its more than thirty years of aging, neeeding only a few drops of oil, a shifter cable, and an indicator spindle to make it a pleasure to ride again. (Someone else had already put the air in the tires). If we are fortunate, we get these bicycles for a very low price. But that's only because the general population doesn't know much about them. By rights, they should probably cost more than some of today's best bicycles. But the lack of demand will keep the price way, way down below that. On Ebay some of the least glamorous ones cost more to ship than their selling price. The DL-1's are reaching a realistic price, unfortunately for the buyers but fortunately for the sellers. But you might see a Dunelt, Armstrong, or a Raleigh Sports waiting in the pile for cleanup week. But I worry that the tide may be turning. The other day, as I was riding my 1962 Hercules back to work at lunchtime, I saw a relatively new department store mountain bike, that couldn't have cost more than $100 when new, in front of a house with the sign "Free" hanging on that mountain bike. The thought came to mind, "Finally a cheap mountain bike selling for it's true value". But then the thought, could I have caused another person to discover vintage English bicycles? I had been riding past there almost daily for the last few months. Would I see an English roadster or sports being ridden by the former owner of that cheap mountain bike? Besides my Engish three speed bicycles, in this small city of about 25,000 people, there is a ladies Rudge, a gents' Armstrong, and now a ladies British Royce Union actually being ridden.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Raleigh made Royce Unions posted by P.C. Kohler on 4/27/2003 at 1:04:36 AM
It's GREAT to see classic English machines out there and one sees more and more although mostly are "beaters" used for everyday use. Which is the ultimate testiment to these bikes' enduring quality. What I don't see are too many classic restored bikes on the paths. At least here in Washington, D.C.

All British made bikes were quality as you say, just were. I think Raleigh Industries' machines represented the best quality after the war; c. 1948-1958 they were the finest in the world. Period. I think the chromium plating on RI products of this era was far better than anything the British Cycle Corp./TI were making as was the black enamelling work. Raleigh machines had much nicer, heavier cranks and chainwheels too. But even cheapest machines made by CWS for so many offbrands were leagues ahead of foreign made.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Raleigh made Royce Unions posted by J. M. Vernooy on 4/27/2003 at 4:30:41 AM
I agree that Raleighs were, in the 1948-1958 era, the best made bicycles across their entire catalog selection of models. And then after 1958 they were also the competition. While others used lighter round shaft crank arms Raleigh used ones that had a rectangular cross section. The other manufacturers used rod fender braces but Raleigh used a heavier guage and on the back fender they used an extra brace set. But I got to see the best that Hercules had to offer the U.S. in 1960 and it wasn't far behind the Raleighs. Hercules, even though by then just about turned over to Raleigh, was able to make one last attempt at giving Raleigh a pretty good run for the best sports model. I've seen the lower priced Hercules from 1960 and they were not very impressive. They definitely fell short of any Raleigh of the era. But the top model Hercules made for the U.S. model was quite high quality. The chromium plating was flawless. Even the fenders were chromed. The fenders had the shortcoming of being too brittle for the way an eight year old boy would use it though. I managed to have the rear fender break in just about two years. But the chrome was still perfect. The nicely chromed rims were dented and bent within about the same time. If it had had the rims that Raleighs had they probably would have stood up to even the way I rode when I was eight years old.

A friend of mine had a Schwinn that looked like either Hercules was copying Schwinn or Schwinn was copying Hercules. The Hercules looked better than the Schwinn. And it was better than the Schwinn. Neither bike, by then, was in showroom condition and in the scratches on the Schwinn it looked as if it had almost no undercoat while the Hercules in all but the deepest scratches still had the black undercoat unscratched. It's a shame that at the time I didn't know that I was riding a bicycle that was never going to be made the same. It wasn't that I didn't take care of it, but I took care of it very well in cleaning, lubing and adjusting it, then went out and rode it like a BMX bike. Worst of all when I was 13 years old I wanted a black English roadster so I scaped off the flamboyant red paint and painted it black. Yes, including the decals, lettering and gold box lineing. I have mechanically restored it tested it then took it apart and the frame and fork are hanging from the rafters waiting for the next part of the project. I plan to repaint it to original. I know that is an ambitious project but I've painted bikes before. The trouble is that I could never do it commercially. I'm prepared for the possibility that it may take me a few years and many strippings and repaintings to be satisfied. So expect pictures of the finished project in about three years. I now never mess with the original coat of paint except on a bicycle that already doesn't have an original coat of paint. Anyway, I wish I could show you what that Hercules looked like in 1960. But all I have is a not too good picture of it about a year later with me standing beside it looking like the typically proud owner of a nearly brand new bicycle. For some reason it was already missing the saddlebag.

AGE / VALUE:   Triumph Raleigh bicycyle posted by: simon on 4/26/2003 at 11:25:24 PM
I picked up a bike today at the recycling depot for 5 bucks. I thought it was a triumph vintage model. But on further investigation I found it was a reproduction Triumph with all made in England parts, but made in canda by Raleigh. the hub says 1975 however I haven't been ablke to find any info on the bike?

AGE / VALUE:   eBay Clubman Coup posted by: P.C. Kohler on 4/26/2003 at 7:46:09 PM
One always enjoys the “fishing tales” on this board... those wonderful Superbes or pre-war DL-1s or Lentons found in the trash, bought for $10 at a garage sale or found along the road. Alas, nothing quite so good has happened to me. Until my latest eBay purchase.

“Raleigh Sports Bike, Nottingham England” was how it was listed, the same week everyone was going bonkers over that 1937 Raleigh roadster. Only two bidders and it cost me $92.00 Arrived yesterday. I thought this was going to be a Lenton Sports. Beautifully packed. Someone delightfully not only used a Raleigh America box but crossed out “Made in China” and replaced with “England”!

Open her up... not a Lenton Sports. But a Raleigh Clubman! Not some humdrum AW hub as advertised but an AM dated 4 49, original alloy faced shifter too. Dunlop light alloy 26 x 1/4 rims. Original rear celluloid mudguard, half of the front one left. Chome polished up beautifully as did those lovely alloy Maes bend handlebars. Put a new Brooks B17N and NOS Baycliff bag on her and an NOS Raleigh fork lamp bracket. No sleeve grips (we MUST get these made!) so I used a pair of John Bull Super Sports “RI” marked soft grips. Removed some horrid American generator lamp set and Japanese rear carrier. Paint, as usual, is shot but enough there to ride and enjoy “as is”. I can’t face anymore battles with indolent bike frame painters right now...

So a bargain, methinks. OK, I know someone will say they paid five quid for one last week but I am dead chuffed over this sweet little machine. She may be taken out for a test spin tomorrow. What a treat to have a British cycle that weighs less than 30 pounds!

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   C.C.M Bicycle school workbook posted by: Chris on 4/26/2003 at 5:01:00 PM
E- bay item #2171802310 1924 C.C.M. bicycle school workbook
( Not my auction,no relation to seller)

Wow! The C.C.M. workbooks I have in my own collection from 1960's are so much more plain.
This 1924 one is awesome!

Read the ad part where they tell all the things that they could have done to cut costs but they did not because they took pride in producing a quality machine.Not like today where the philosophy is the direct opposite.
Two hour nickel baths! multiple coats of enammel, bearings you can't cut with a file!

" The most profitable part of any investment is the small extra amount you pay for quality. C.C.M. quality is worth all it costs."
I like that!
The front cover showing the race people is really interesting. Take a look!

AGE / VALUE:+AKAAoACg-I'm jealous, they had full ball bearing wheels. posted by: Chris on 4/26/2003 at 4:34:13 PM
The kids wagons from years back had full ball bearing pedals. I picked up a Happy Time wagon the other day. The wagons today are not ball bearing and the wheels are crappy and the older stuff was so much better. I picked up boxes of wagon and pedal car stuff. Wheels, hub caps, cab tiring, the machine that does it. The steering was frozen so she set it out.
Vintage wagons and pedal cars are cool! I had a Marx go cart that was awesome! The whole neighborhood had a great time with that.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:+AKAAoACg-I'm jealous, they had full ball bearing wheels. posted by Geo on 4/26/2003 at 5:00:56 PM
Just out of curiosity what the heck is this +AKAAoACg ?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:+AKAAoACg-I'm jealous, they had full ball bearing wheels. posted by Chris on 4/26/2003 at 5:11:40 PM
It appeared out of nowhere. Sorry.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:+AKAAoACg-I'm jealous, they had full ball bearing wheels. posted by Warren on 4/27/2003 at 12:29:54 AM
Chris...CCM made a "Bicycle Wagon"...I think it was made to be towed. Anyway, it has tapered roller bearings! I have one but the rubber wheels are shot.

Nice wagons indeed.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:+AKAAoACg-I'm jealous, they had full ball bearing wheels. posted by Mike P on 4/28/2003 at 1:50:21 AM
Gee, having a bunch of stuff from a CCM dealer in my shed, including solid tiring looking for a wheel, and several odd wheels, send me pics maybe cna help. Mike

AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 1960 3 speed Starliner posted by: julie on 4/25/2003 at 4:17:23 PM
Help, I have found a run over Royce Union 3 speed Starliner female bike (not in too bad of condition) The Sturmey/Archer hub has a date of may 1960. I want to fix it up but don't know the first thing about repairing/rebuilding bikes. I can't find any information on Royce Union. There are some numbers stamped into the seat post part of the frame, as well as under the pedal holding part of the frame. Can anyone tell me what I may have in this bike as far as potential value and/or where I can find some information about it and how to rebuild it-I am looking forward to the project more than anything else.
Thanks- julie

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 1960 3 speed Starliner posted by Geo on 4/26/2003 at 4:22:21 PM
Hey Julie, I don't think there is much value in this bike but that has never stopped me from fixing them up. There are a number of good sites to check out when it comes to repairing bikes. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/ and http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/crank.html are two of my favorites. It would be a good thing to try and save this bike. Most ladies bikes are disgarded or scavanged for parts. Good luck and have fun. Save a bike today. Geo