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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by: Stacey on 6/8/2003 at 11:12:34 PM
I think I've just about got everything I need to make the conversion.

AG Dyno-Three Rear Hub ' Check!
Hercules Threaded Driver ' Check!
Cyclo Threaded Three Cog Cluster ' Check!
Shifter, Fulcrum & Sundries ' Cneck, Check & Check!

My question is what rear derailer to use. Is any that will move the chain acceptable, or is there one best suited to the task. I don't need to worry about period correctness or anything... just want to move the chain across the cogs.

What say the masses?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/9/2003 at 1:50:24 AM
I guess it all depends on what your largest cog is, if it's under 23 teeth, use just about anything as long as the cage can accept wide chains. For these type of conversions I like to use a Huret Allvit, and my reasons are very simple.
1)Most Allvits come with an adapter claw
2)Because they are so old, they can accept wider chains
3) They are cheap like Borscht, easily obtainable, and have these really cool red jockey wheels with REAL ball bearings.

I've never seen a Cyclo 3 cog driver. What shape are the teeth? If they are fully formed, you might have some difficulty shifting. Look at a modern cluster, see how each tooth is individualy shaped and doesn't have a peaked top?
I think Cyclo also made a bar-con style shifter as well as the mile-long downtube mounted shifter. On my conversions I like to use a Sun-tour bar-con, just slide my fist down a little on the bar, nudge it with the ham of my fist, and bam! turbo boost...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by Stacey on 6/9/2003 at 1:17:05 PM
Ooops! Guilty of error by omission, Edward. I forgot to mention this is going on my Raleigh Capri hybridized lightweight upright road-bike... gawd, I hate trying to make pigeon holes. Anyhow, I'll be replacing a 6 cog rear wheel with a wheel built around this hub and it has a 3 cog chainwheel. So, we're good on the chain thickness issue. I have a neat adapter claw with a threaded eye for mounting up bolt on derailers... and a box full of all sorts of claw mount units too. So, I have plenty of selection.

The teeth on the cluster (16T, 19T, 22T)are flat topped, in the fashion of the early 5 speed clusters... nothing as fancy as the modern clusters, with ramps and hooks built in the teeth to snatch the chain up to the next larger cog.

It sounds like anything is usable as long as it will handle the chain management and I can limit the travel to prevent over-shifts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by Ben on 6/9/2003 at 6:40:56 PM

I like the Campagnolo Valentino. It is lighter than the Allvit, and has a nice old-fashioned look to it...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by paul on 6/9/2003 at 10:13:41 PM
my friends laughed when I had a mixte some years ago with a "Positron" cheapie derailleur with twin cables. I found this to be one of the smoothest derailleurs going. Frankly I am an afficionado of 3 speed SA, 2 speed New Departure and coaster brakes. My only 10 speed is a Peugeot UO-18 mixte, full fendered and lighted tourer which I ride infrequently. My bicyles of choice, '63 Raleigh Sports in cranberry and '65 Rudge in oxblood, veddy british......paul

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by Chris on 6/10/2003 at 12:37:32 AM
Cyclo threaded three cog cluster!
That's an oldie! I see the three lugged type more often.
Werever you found that one, it was an old, old stash of parts!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Derailer recomendations posted by Stacey on 6/10/2003 at 3:14:41 AM
I found it a barn sale run by one of my IRL auction buddies, in the section marked "Old Bike Parts". I swear I've looked in that box at least a dozen times before... musta been a new addition to the larder. Best of all it was only a quarter. Wanna see a picture?

Thanks for all the input mates, I'll just have to see what I can scare up.

AGE / VALUE:   Weekend subdivision garage sale adventure! posted by: Chris on 6/8/2003 at 7:24:37 PM
Two Raleigh Sports complete, mens and ladies.
10.00 each!
Four more bikes, free. Schwinn Continental and a Huffy Sportsman and the other two I forget.
Ho hum! Then the gods of vintage bikes threw me a real and serious curve ball. One of the nicest machines to ever meet up with me. I asked what it was and was it for sale and instead of being told no it was not for sale actually the answer was the opposite!!
Yipes!! What this is blows me away, totally!
We pulled it down out the garage where it had been sleeping literally for 58 years!
Stay tuned for the conclusion!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Weekend subdivision garage sale adventure! posted by Stacey on 6/8/2003 at 11:20:55 PM
Great hunting Chris you old dog you. Prolly had them scoped out for years, just waiting for the 'Yard Sale' signs to go up. LOL! Congrats on the booty haul!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Weekend subdivision garage sale adventure! posted by Chris on 6/10/2003 at 12:32:55 AM
No scoping them out ahead of time. No.
Dumb luck from a very persistent searcher. That's all.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Weekend subdivision garage sale adventure! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/10/2003 at 1:31:20 AM

Of course... we're all waiting with baited breath for the forthcoming revalation!



AGE / VALUE:   roadster or sport 30's posted by: ron on 6/8/2003 at 2:48:13 PM
People of the board, this bike has drum brakes, is it a roadster or a sport, is this bike rare?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   roadster or sport 30's posted by Warren on 6/8/2003 at 11:34:34 PM
I think it is a Sports...it has Endrick rims...the shifter is pre-war and cable operated brakes were "de rigeur" from the 30's thru to the 50's. Seat looks like a replacement. This could be one special bike but the angle of the pics make me suspect a bad repaint. Where are the tell tale decals except for the chainguard...the fenders look like Bluemel s to me. What are the hubs...AB, AH?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   roadster or sport 30's posted by Warren on 6/8/2003 at 11:36:39 PM
On second thought the fenders look OK. Still...I'm from Missouri as my mother from Toronto used to say.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   roadster or sport 30's posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/9/2003 at 2:00:04 AM
Warren's right, hub brakes were THE thing to have in the thirties. According to my my "The Sturmey Archer Story" the rear hub could either be a KB a 3 speed made from '31 to '38, or an AB, made from 1938 onwards. This bike's got alot of goodies, quadrant shifter, full chaincase with all the pieces, drum brakes, decent paint. Wonder what it'll sell for...

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   worth posted by: jim on 6/8/2003 at 1:31:58 AM
I have a 1960 "Hopper" in great condition with all original parts. Would anyone like to take a stab at what it is worth because I don't know how to get an appraisal on it.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   worth posted by Nigel Land on 6/12/2003 at 8:51:50 PM
Can't help on value but I am interested in how you know the year. I am marque specialist for Elsick-Hopper in the V-CC in the UK. What modle do you have and can you email me a photo?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   barn find , Raleigh , 53116 serial No. posted by: Curtis Mcmanus on 6/7/2003 at 11:55:11 PM
just found a huge bike , frame 35 inchs high , Raleigh roadster type , frame No. 53116 stamped on the left hand seat lug , 28 inch wheels , rod brakes , looks very old ! rides well ! after 20 hours work !!! any ideas on age etc , can send you a pic to help ID , send me a E Mail !!!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   barn find , Raleigh , 53116 serial No. posted by David on 6/9/2003 at 11:00:50 AM
Is it a 35" frame (measured from the crank to the top of the seat tube)? !!??!! Or is it 35" stand-over height; i.e. 35" from the ground to the top tube? If it's the former, it's phenomenal and you should post a picture on this site!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   barn find , Raleigh , 53116 serial No. posted by curtis on 6/14/2003 at 1:49:16 AM
the bike is 35 inchs from the floor , found out its a 1898 roadster from this site ! 24 inch frame , have all so found a sports bike 1934 ish drop bars , drum brakes , 3 speed , brooks seat , rides ok ! wots it worth ????? curt

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by: Bob on 6/7/2003 at 9:37:57 PM
I picked up a Raleigh Twenty recently. It was dirt cheap and appears to be in original, mint condition. I plan to ride the Cape Cod Rail Trail with it tomorrow. S/A three-speed, dated 69 14. Frame S/N: 0 465857... The 0 is "broken," and there may be more to the serial number behind the rear carrier bracket. It's the first Raleigh Twenty I've come across. Do I have something rare and worthwhile? It will certainly be one of my riding bikes. Appreciative of any input, Bob

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by Warren on 6/7/2003 at 11:32:41 PM
They are not "rare" but they more scarce then many other Raleighs...they are well built and they ride nicely. I've seen more than a few modified for more sporting peformance.

Search for Raleigh Twenty at Sheldon Browns website.

I did see one reach over $150 on ebay the other day...but I saw one for $75 locally.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by Dick on 6/8/2003 at 5:28:25 AM
I have several step-through (translation: girl's) bicycles. These are really well-suited to urban riding were one is on and off the bike frequently. My Raleigh 20 is the *only* step-through that does not "squirm" when you jiggle the handlebars. All the others are congenitally deficient in torsional rigidity. Like all Raleigh roadsters, though, the handlebar ends are too close together for my taste. BTW: There was a fine Raleigh 20 with a dynohub system bid to over $250 recently on ebay. Not enough to pierce the reserve, though.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by Warren on 6/8/2003 at 12:55:40 PM
Anyone who puts a reserve of over $250 US on a Twenty is daft, Dyno or not. Now I realize that the bidding went up there but the seller was greedy.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by Matthew on 6/8/2003 at 2:42:26 PM
As a long term owner and rider of a 'Twenty' derivative I think I can comment with authority on these models. They are heavy and unpleasant to ride. They are ideal town bikes and can carry copious quantities of shopping or luggage. Mine was a sliver Triumph Traffic Master which I was encouraged to buy, when I was thirteen, by my Dad. I am very small 5'4" and 9st 2lb. Then I was only 4'ish and less than 7st. I attribute my cycling stamina and leg muscles to the Trafficmaster. It was so heavy, though very low and managable for a small teenager, that I developed super fit legs. I rode this cycle everywhere and often out rode friends on faster / lighter cycles. We had a seven year friendship during which time I added Miller dyno (not a success), alloy rear carrier and Dunlop Grass track tyres. the tyres just happened to come to hand but were a good move. The Triumph and I saw thousnds of miles together but I was never sorry to say goodbye to it. The 'twenty' was made for over twenty years. I had a 1967 model a few years back and they were still made well into the eighties. A good example would struggle to fetch £50 in the UK because they haven't yet received 'collectors' status, that the Chopper and the Grifter have reached. Whilst I have maligned the 'Twenty' for years they actually aren't that bad and they will be cycles which, like the Mini (car) I drive, everyone has had one but nobody remembers the last time they saw or owned one. My advice would be to pick them up locally and keep trading up to the best example you can find or afford. I would rather that they were being saved than scrapped and that they are being ridden and not neglected.

Matthew, RSW's are miles better!

PS. I have seen 4 Raleigh variants, the 20, 18, 16, and the Heather, then there were the Hercules models including a folder (HEAVEE!) and the BSa too. No doubt there were more.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/9/2003 at 2:12:25 AM
Mathew, have you ridden your RSW--lately? My kids like to ride our RSW (16"wheels) and it's a folder as well. But it is heav-y, twitchy, and inspite of the thick tires and padded seat, rough going over bumps.
On the other hand I've never had so much fun converting it. I put on two cogs and a Huret derailleur, with such a low gear I can do "Wheelies". I even scrounged up a 28spk dynohub, laced it into the front wheel and promptly converted it to a drum brake. Stops so good even I can lock the wheel. But my kids like it, and I even get appreciative stares from teens with their $800 never ridden mtn bikes...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by David on 6/9/2003 at 10:55:41 AM
Articles on converting them to lighter-weight higher-performance bikes stirred my enthusiasm and I bought one on ebay relatively cheap (still not cheap!) I'm having second thoughts about it after spending some money on a longer seatpost and seat sandwich. (The original steel post was too short for me at 6' 3") The handling is somewhat scooter-ish and the headset with a plastic bushing at the top is annoying. It makes the steering somewhat sticky; you can't ride it no-hands. I doubt I'd be happy with it without replacing the fork and headset with an all ball-bearing setup. If I can ever get the quick-release stem out of an old French folder I plan to try using that and make a decision about whether to keep and convert or sell.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information Requested - Raleigh Twenty posted by JohnM on 6/9/2003 at 6:46:04 PM
I have one that I seem to ride more than any of my other bikes. Updated parts are: wheels, tires, hubs, stem, front fork, seatpost, and saddle. Harris Cyclery did the wheels, fork and stem, and Shimano Nexus (7 speed) hub for me last winter -- a bit tricky on the hub, because the seatstays have to be bent below the welds where the brake mount is located. They did a beautiful job with it. I kept the original cranks and chain guard -- this is my "ride as you are" bike, and I like not having to worry about getting grease on my pants. I kept the fenders, and added a big mud flap -- with the hub brake on the Nexus, this bike thrives on wet roads. I kept the original bars -- too short and too heavy, but compactness is a more important virtue when it's going in the back of my Saturn (with the seats still folded up!). I ride with my kids a lot, so the smaller wheels just seem to get me on the same wavelength with them. I put 1.75" tires on there, and first gear on the Nexus is low enough to handle a moderate grade in dirt. Overall, it's super rugged for a folder, and more versatile than anything else on two wheels. Disadvantages: it's relatively short legged (slow and inefficient), and so not so good after after the first 5 miles. The small wheels give the steering a busy feel, which is tiring after a while. I've never stopped to total up how much it cost me. Guess I'm afraid the result would show that I should have bought a new bike. But where can you buy a new bike today that's a folder and also part pack mule and part mountain goat?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do the go?? posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/7/2003 at 11:53:38 AM
As I had mentioned prior, I have a number of Roadsters here. Many of which of course have frame pump bosses... and yet... I do not own ONE stinking frame pump. Seems every bike I come across is sans frame pump. Just got to pondering... where on earth do they all end up?

I'm thinking that somewhere in the Twilight Zone, there is a massive pile of single socks and Roadster frame pumps waiting to be claimed....



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do the go?? posted by Ward on 6/7/2003 at 5:00:29 PM
I don't know where the pumps go, but, as in life, the "bosses" must be telling them where to go. I'll ask my wife(boss). She knows everything.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Where do the go?? posted by Chris on 6/7/2003 at 5:57:10 PM
I deleted the whole thread I just wrote and I'll stick to bikes and not ramble on and rant.

AGE / VALUE:   BSA full chaincase posted by: Scott on 6/7/2003 at 6:55:52 AM
I have a green BSA with a full chaincase and I'm missing the back part of the chaincase which goes around the rear sprocket. It attaches with two screws. Any chance someone out there has this part to part with? Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BSA full chaincase posted by David on 6/9/2003 at 10:57:38 AM
I think you'll find those chaincase pieces in the box next to the pumps.

AGE / VALUE:   Diagrams posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 6/6/2003 at 7:43:39 PM
P.C., Did you recieve those Raleigh Tourist D.L.1. diagrams I sent out to you?
E- mail me and let me know. please. Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Diagrams posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/7/2003 at 9:36:58 PM
This exploded diagram and parts list for North American export versions of the Dl-1, c. 1978, is now posted in the FILES section of "Roll Britannia".

Many thanks Christopher for sharing this with us.

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   Broken axles are not that much easier today to replace posted by: Chris on 6/6/2003 at 7:27:20 PM
We are not out in the middle of nowhere. We don't have to hop a ballast train and ride in to a far out town and hunt down a machinist and have him dissemeble the New departure two speed DD hub and machine up a new axle so we can continue.
But still, the qwest for suitable replacement bicycle parts continue. And compared to what has to be done to find these parts a ride on a ballast train is not so far out. We have e- bay and bike shops in Ohio called Memory Lane.

AGE / VALUE:   Different handlebars?? posted by: W.L.SOON on 6/6/2003 at 1:08:58 PM
Hi guys,how're you all?
Well,I was just browsing thro' e-Bay and saw these two versions of roadster handlebars and so I decided to ask you guys about them.

1st type:item no.2177258094.Now,this,I assume,is the normally seen type used on English roadsters exported to USA, perhaps?This type is seldom seen here in Malaysia.
2nd type:item no.2177045724.(Does the bike really worth that MUCH??!! Whoa!!)This is the type normally seen on roadsters here.My Gazelle uses this type.

So,I wonder,what's with the two version? Differently countries exported to? Older/newer versions? Etc.?
Well,I hope you guys could shed a light on this matter,for I've been curious about them all this while.All your comments would be much appreciated.Thanks a lot guys and happy riding.GOD BLESS and bye!!! :D :D :D

William Soon,Malaysia.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Different handlebars?? posted by David Poston on 6/7/2003 at 12:29:56 AM

Well, no one has replied as of yet to your post, so I'll do my best.

I always wondered the same thing about the different handlebars. I think it is an old/new issue. The first handlebars you were looking at were off a 70's Raleigh Tourist DL-1. The other ones (on the bike, intact) look to be pre-war (before 1940). I think Asian models have retained the pre-war style, which I personally prefer. The older style seems to curve straight back towards the rider for a more "sit up and beg" position, while the newer ones (introduced around 1940's?) seem to have a slight forward bend. I think all 28" roadsters had the style you are used to until the later Raleigh DL-1's which came out in the 1970's. I am actually replacing my DL-1 handlebars with a 9" (!) stem Asian knockoff (like yours) to give it that pre-war look.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Different handlebars?? posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/7/2003 at 1:16:09 AM
No mystery here... the old "straight" bars were offered on all Raleigh Industries export rod-brake machines as an option. Generally, they were (and are) standard for Africa, Straits Settlements, Middle East etc. Every machine in Iraq you see on the news has these for example.

For the domestic UK market, North America etc. the straight style bars were not standard after the Second World War but they could be ordered as spares and, one presumes, special ordered as standard.

Raleigh Industries literally offered 100s of models each specific to its intended market as did the other major export manufacturers Phillips and Hercules. There was no such thing as "The DL-1" or "the" anything, but instead a myriad range of different machines. Even the frames varied from double to single top tubes. I would love to find the spec books in the Raleigh archives; I suspect they are huge.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Different handlebars?? posted by ronnie on 6/7/2003 at 2:46:12 PM
Phenomenal question always wanted to know the answer.
I prefer the straight bars, not the ones that dip in, I had a pre war roadster that had the dip version.

AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by: David Poston on 6/6/2003 at 4:26:15 AM
I posted this very same question almost exactly one year ago. "Where to begin?" I asked. I had never even known what an English roadster was before I came upon this forum, though I had always admired "those bikes" from afar. Since then, after a few pitfalls and mistakes (and countless hours of late-night e-baying), I have amassed six bikes, plus my garage is now filled with tons of parts, catalogues, polishes, waxes, etc., not to mention the vast amount of information I collected on this very site.

Now I repeat my original question, yet phrased somewhat differently: "Where to begin with mechanicals"? I'm tired of having to take my beloved treasures down to the local bike shop, to pay a ton, and then wonder if the job was really done right. I'm ready to venture into the realm of bottom brackets, cotter pins, bearings, and grease!

So, where DO I begin? Aside from Sheldon's website, of course, is there a must-have book on the subject? I need an education from scratch in bike mechanical basics, as long as it is relevant to English 3-speeds. I have some time on my hands right now, since I was recently laid off from work, so I'm ready to roll up the sleeves and get to work.

So, can someone here guide me step-by-step? Sure, I now have a set of Whitworth wrenches, I can install a 3-speed trigger and pulley, do the indicator chain adjustment, add pedals, remove wheels, compound and wax, but I want to get to the real stuff in order to put all my machines in tip-top shape. Right now I'm afraid to touch my bottom bracket and headset, and I wouldn't know how to begin truing or lacing a wheel.

I think, at some point, we all need to get together and publish a book (if not several) on Englsh roadsters--how to acquire 'em, how to restore 'em, how to fix 'em, and how to ride 'em! We spend so many hours on this stuff, and we've got a ton of information to publish. With so many varied backgrounds, there could be many contributing authors with a vast amount of knowledge on all topics.

Just a thought.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Robert on 6/6/2003 at 12:46:10 PM

Check this auction on ebay. (Not mine)

As far as a manual, this one would cover some of the basics of Sports and Roadsters. Sadly no rod brake adjustments.
Because of its age it covers much of the technology of the Brit Bikes. I have a copy and it is a good reference. There are probably better manuals, and hopefully someone will suggest one.
To me, the biggest pain are the crank cotters , but because you maintain the bottom bracket so infrequently , it is no big deal . You will have to learn the same way many of us did . Trial and error. Unless you had someone local to lead you along, you will screw up some stuff. Just remember to use your hammer sparingly .
My best advice is to launch off into some of the less complex things, (clean ,pack, and adjust front axle bearings possibly) remembering that patience is a virtue. Don't tackle a complete teardown first time out, just one area of the bike at a time. If you are tired , frustrated, or angry, it's a good time to step away and go riding on one of your other bikes. Ask questions and go slow if in doubt.

Hope this helps,

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by CMK on 6/6/2003 at 2:03:12 PM
I just got an old english roadster my self(with a bent rim) and as for taking the spoked out, you need to but a special wrench which cost me like 3 bucks. then you just basically remove the nut at the bottom of each spoke. Make sure you keep the pattern right tho when you put it all back together, as for truing a rim, thats something i need to learn myself, but for mild bends, i heard you can just tighten the spokes(sience when its bent some will be loose and others way too tight). And i guess just a little warning note, when taking out old cranks and headsets, watch the berrings, they are all the little loose ball berrings, unlike newer bikes that have berrings contained in a little ring. When i re did my bike a swapped the headset breeings with the newer type, mainly sience my old fork was totaled, and the one I had to replace it with was newer, i just pulled out the chrome pieces and put the ones that matched the fork in. When i pulled the crank, of course ball berrings went everywhere. An eask way i found to keep them in is to put the bike on its side with the cap thats still on facing down and then stick the crank on through the bottom so you can drop the berrings in without them falling out the other side, cranks are very tricky tho, so it might be better to get someone else to do them, or not to pull them at all if they are not messed up too bad.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Edward in Vancouver on 6/6/2003 at 3:05:13 PM
David, according to you posting, you have everything you need to get started:
1)You have the desire to learn
2) You have the basic tools and the same information that we have. (You can also get step-by step instructions for S/A hubs on Tony Hadland's site for FREE)
3) You have something that alot of us don't have--TIME!!
So start experimenting. If you don't want to sacrifice one of your 6 bikes, get a beater to practice on, and when you've done your bit with the beater, casually wheel it back to a dumpster and start for real on your "least loved" bike. Heaven for me is a rainy afternoon in the garage with a barley juice and BB overhaul with the wife and kids out shopping...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Brian on 6/6/2003 at 6:00:13 PM
...Barley Juice? Are we talking about a cerveza? Heaven for me would be to have a family. Still, I kinda know what you mean - when you're always behind the eight ball - you really value time spent alone!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Chris on 6/6/2003 at 7:04:29 PM
Send us a picture of your bike so we see what it is that you have and we'll walk you thru it. Somebody will cough up the parts or at least assist.
Remove the cranks. That means remove the cotter pins and set the cranks aside.
Contact the Raleigh Chopper website folks like Mr. Mark Rich. and those fellows. Buy a set of Raleigh Chopper bottombracket cups. These are the same as the ones in your Raleigh Tourist D.L.1. rod brake 28 inch wheel bike. Any old Raleigh 28 inch wheel rod brake bike will use those cups so go get yourself a set. If the bike is a Phillips or B.S.A. or something else that's another story.

Ok, so you have spent some coin and the cups are there before you. Now(2) go and find a Raleigh bottom bracket spindle marked 08GCP and search on e- bay and run ads in forums and contact the Cyclists Touring Club the C.T.C. and search through the folks associated with that and the groups like this one. When you do find a boottombracket spindle the worst part is over.
you'll need 11 (eleven) 1/4 size precision ball bearings and the grease of your choice.
Remove the lockring on the adjustable cup and pull out the spindle. Actually, do that first to see if it is marked 08GCP or o8.
Clean out the fixed cup and leave it in there or and this is the way you should do it. Remove that fixed cup and set it aside. Having both cups out you are ready to go further.
Sheldon Brown has some notes on removing a fixed Raleigh Bottom bracket cups.
The bottom bracket overhaul procedure is not easy or fun procedure it is full of landmines to dodge.

The cups and spindle are hens teeth as nobody is making these today.
The cotter pins are nasty to remove sometimes. This has been covered here and with uncle Sheldon. You need to find a new 9.5 mm set and seat them right when you re-insert the new cotter pins. They go opposite each other.
screw the fixed cup home and use a punch or a special tool to set it. Grease it and install the ball bearings. Insert the spindle and the adjustable cup with the bearings in that. There are 11 bearings set in grease in both cups.
screw it together until it turns sweetly without any up or down play. Set the lockring and then you are ready to re- install the now cleaned cranks back on the spindle and insert the cotter pins and washers and nuts.
The original Raleigh cap nuts with the red R logo may not fit the threading on the replacement cotter pins as the threading is different sometimes depending on what brand of 9.5 mm cotter pin you found to put in the bike.
So you may have plain undecorated nuts holding in the cotter pins. You may have to file the cotter pins to seath them but I never do.
Once again, go to the Raleigh Chopper sites and or e- bay and find a new set of Raleigh Chopper cotter pins and nuts as these fit your Raleigh Tourist rod brake 28 inch black bobbie bike.

Ok, now the bottombracket is done.

A machinist can come in handy with conjuring up a new spindle.
The biggest pain in the butt is finding the new parts. The replacement parts for this.

We need to take pictures of the bike and the parts and step by step cover this procedure and post it on a web site and if somebody sharp like P.C. Kohler does not beat me to doing this then I'll cover it in detail at my upcomming web site.

There is headset overhaul and hubs and all sorts of other re- new/ hop up/ procedures covering the rod brake 28 inch wheel Raleighs too.

This is the same thing you do with a Raleigh Sports or a Raleigh Chopper. The bottombracket cups are the SAME CUPS NO MATTER WHAT RALEIGH BIKE YOU HAVE! THE ONLY THING THAT VARIES IS THE SPINDLE SIZE AND THESE ARE MARKED on the old spindle that is in your bike.
Probably why this has not been done is that if it was shown then who ever who shows it being done would be innudated with requests for rare, hard to find original parts and not many folks have these on hand to sell.

The kiss of death unless you are in the game is the Raleigh 26 T.P.I. bottombracket threading.

It was not made by anybody else but Raleigh and it is no longer being made. Where is the tooling that can knock out these old style 26 T.P.I. Cups?
This is shrouded in mystery.

Now a Phillips is different with Phillips's own codes like Raleigh on the spindle.
The good thing is that Phillips and all the other British Cycle corporation type bikes is that those are 24 T.P.I. and those cups are easier to find.
Easier to remove and install also. Phillips is cake compared to Raleigh.

We need to form a real workable list of people and places to find replacement Raleigh bottombracket parts.
Heck, we need to re- manufacture these parts and sell them!
Obtain permission if needed but get it rolling!
At one time on Sheldon's site he had a note advising not to ask about some of these hard to find Raleigh parts like dynohub stuff and Dunlop/ Raleigh parts as he did not have a stash of replacement parts for these and he wished he did.
Still, do examine what Sheldon and Harris Cyclery sells because he is able to rescue so many other folks and that's what they do.

Alloy rims to improve the handling on your 26 inch wheel Raleigh Sports. Re-placement Raleigh "dare" grips, tires and so many other parts are available from him.
Because Vin is hosting this site here (oldroads.com) it would be best to check out the parts for sale section here first and then go to Sheldon and others from there if we don't have it here. Also, because Vin is getting in new inventory from time to time.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Ben on 6/6/2003 at 7:15:08 PM

Most of us self-taught mechanics faced this same set of circumstances, only at about age 10! So, do what we did...just take it apart. However, there are some things I learned along the way that might be helpful:

1. Buy some of those aluminum disposable turkey roasting pans, and whenever you take something apart, have one handy to dump the pieces in. You can also use a can of spray carburetor cleaner to clean out bottom brackets over these pans, then a toothbrush and the leftover to clean little parts. Additionally, kerosene in a glass jar can make a great parts shaker.

2. Run down to your local bike shop and buy some bearings for each of the sizes you'll need - headset, front wheel and bottom bracket, plus pedals if they are rebuildable...get plenty so you don't have to keep going back.

3. If replacing bearings, generally use one less than will fill the race. In a headset with loose bearings, two less will do. SA rear wheel bearings are caged, but if you cannot get the proper caged ones, use loose and the 1-less rule. Set bearing cones so that the play in the axle goes away. SA recommends a little play in the back wheel. To test headset for looseness, pick up front of bike about 1 inch by stem, and drop. You will hear and feel a judder if the setting is too loose.

4. Get a tub of grease. You will use it. Not necessary to get the pricey bike store stuff, you can buy it at the auto parts store.

5. Grease threads on pedals before reinstalling, and put a little on stem and seatpost portion that will contact the inner wall of the frame tube.

6. Use loctite on small threaded fasteners, such as fender bolts, reflector brackets, and even the seat binder. Not necessary to use on wheel nuts and axles, at least I never do.

7. In everything, be aware of how tight you are making it - rear axle threads are possible to strip and no fun to repair. Generally, don't use a big wrench for a small fastener.

Results may vary. Some restrictions apply.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Chris on 6/6/2003 at 7:18:28 PM
Bottom bracket tools are seen on e- bay from time to time.
There are shops that have these parts, not everybody squirrels and hoards and refuses to sell these parts. With looking it is there to be found and the net is a ifesaver.
You can make your own tool as Sheldon tells about a cheap bolt and nut way of removing the fixed cup.
A groove in the bottombracket cup, both fixed and adjustable is ok and you can still use it.
Pitting anywhere in any bearing race be it in the bottombracket cups or on the spindle or on a hub cone or inside the hub itself, or in the headset cup races means the thing is shot and needing to be replaced.

Raleigh rod brake Tourist/ D.L.1. 28 inch black, rod brake headsets are the same as in The Raleigh Chopper or Raleigh Sports or other Raleigh bike.
Also 26 T.P.I. is the headsets.
Sheldon explains all this.

I hate to say it, but the best place for that pictures/ text/ overhaul guide is with him on his site. Perhaps he'll do it? or here at oldroads.com or with P.C. Kohler's "Roll Britannia"
I'll post it myself on my site if nobody beats me to doing it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 6/6/2003 at 7:24:48 PM
Ben is giving excellent advise here, but I was told to" fill it up and remove ONE, NOT TWO."
the Raleigh headsets use 25 of the 5/32 sized loose ball bearings.

Older, way, older Raleigh's and the whole complete line of Phillips use tiny 1/8 size bearings but that count I don't know right now.

Hunt down and capture a Sutherlands book lurking in bike shops or in big libraries are good to have on hand. The old, Sutherland books as the new copies have this info left out in an attempt to "be modern"

Questions? Ask me at

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Stacey on 6/6/2003 at 7:31:45 PM

Something not mentioned of import was a BIKE WORK STAND. It's sooooo much easier than crawling around the garage floor and much more dignified for your bike that the "capsized turtle" position.

Links to wheel lacing and truing can be found at Sheldon's site. Print it out, work it step by step and it will work for you. Trust me on this, I was stone dumb about wheel building until I found this page. It worked for me! Now, it's a 15 min job to lace a wheel, and about a half hour to true it depending on...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Chris on 6/6/2003 at 7:35:44 PM
I don't know what Barley juice is.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Ben on 6/6/2003 at 8:10:14 PM
What I meant to say was, if you find yourself with two less than full on the headset, it will work. Do not feel compelled to scream down to the shop to get one bearing. I say this because these little buggers are really hard to keep track of once they are out of their container, and more often than not, you lose just enough of them on the basement floor to find yourself needing JUST ONE MORE.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Ben on 6/6/2003 at 8:22:07 PM
Oh, and as for grease, don't get that dark grey lithium goo they sell for wheel bearings...I used something all-purpose that was bluish-green in color, I think Lubriplate made it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by David Poston on 6/7/2003 at 12:09:38 AM
Thanks everyone, for all your posts. I really mean that.

It will take me some time to do this, so if you don't mind, I will be posting from time to time, giving you an update of my progress. The first step will be gathering information. I will start by printing out your replies here, and then print out Sheldon's stash of knowledge. Then to find some decent books. Thanks for the tip on Glenn's bicycle manual; I just placed a bid on e-bay for this one. I'll have to look for Sutherland's. I've also heard of one called "Richard's" bicycle book. Are all these books titled by the person's name with an apostrophe following??? If that's the case, I think "Chris'" book would be mighty handy, as his posts here are essays in length.

In addition to finding information, I'll need some good tools. I already have a good set of Whitworth wrenches, along with some misc. spanners, courtesy of Ian Verrall of New Zealand. I just got a wonderful Park PCS-4 workstand, described in my previous post below. I think the hardest thing to find (and use) will be the cotter pin press. Do they make these any more?

Once I've gathered all the information and tools, I'll come back here with more questions. It will be an off and on thing, but just don't forget about me, OK?

For parts compatibility purposes, here is a list of my cycles (as of now):

1973 Rudge Sports (the one that started it all, found on e-bay thanks to P.C. Kohler)
1955 Raleigh Sports
1965 Raleigh Sports (my "beater")
pair of late 70's Raleigh DL-1's
c. 1940-50 New Hudson 28" roadster (full chaincase to deal with)

All of the above except for the New Hudson should be Raleigh 26 tpi. Should the New Hudson be 24 tpi, just like Phillips?

Thanks again to everyone for their help. So much info was just posted, that it'll take me a day to two to absorb it and respond to it all.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by David Poston on 6/7/2003 at 12:15:30 AM
Pardon my mistake, but that Rudge Sports is a '72, not '73. Nothing of consequence, but I wanted to tell the story right. I think Rudge was last imported into the U.S. around 1972 or thereabouts.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Where to begin? (with mechanicals, that is) posted by Geo on 6/7/2003 at 3:09:01 AM
David, There were so many posts I didn't bother reading them all but I did notice some good advice that I would like to reiterate. JUST DO IT. It's a bicycle. It's made of steel, British steel. The only reason any of us have 30plus year old Raleigh's is because they are built better than Sherman tanks. I've had my share of formal education and I am a book junkie but somethings you won't learn in a book or school(as is obvious by the amount of literature you have on this particuliar subject that evidently hasn't helped you pull on of these apart) you just have to throw caution to the wind and start turning wrenches. Stop buying tools and parts and books and get your hands dirty. And despite what some may think on this site you don't have to dress for high tea and have a degree from Oxford to rip one of these puppies apart, clean off the offending parts and put it back together in the same order it came apart. Stop talking and wondering and find out. Just do it. (p.s. my favorite bike stand is a seat and handlebars, it takes up no room in the cellar and I can take it anywhere)

MISC:   BROOKS B-33 posted by: ron on 6/6/2003 at 12:45:15 AM
I have a b-33 brooks seat, It's unique because the coils are crome not black, the leather is shot, I don't want to cover the exsisting leather, I would like to have a new b-33 leather cover put on totally. Can someone help with any type of information,thank you.


   RE:MISC: BROOKS B-33 posted by P.C. Kohler on 6/6/2003 at 1:33:22 AM
B-33s are wonderful even if three of them are equal in weight to one of today's Tour de France machines. But they were usually sold with a choice of black enamelled or chromed undercarrage and I think still are. I have both models.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:MISC:   BROOKS B-33 posted by M.R. on 6/6/2003 at 2:54:08 AM
You can't buy new leather for these, but you can buy a whole new saddle. You would wind up spending as much having a leather made for it as buying a new saddle anyway. You can buy a used, but nice B-72 saddle and maybe use the leather part on your hardwear. That's the way I would go.

   RE:RE:MISC:   BROOKS B-33 posted by Clyde on 6/8/2003 at 11:57:00 AM
There were a few posts a year or two ago about fashioning a new leather top (about the time when it looked like Brooks was being dragged down with S/A). I tried it too, but the leather I obtained from a wholesaler was not stiff enough and stretched too much. The successful fellow who did it also listed the Tandy leather part no. and even had a photo link to his completed project which looked OEM! So, I suppose it could be done.

If lucky, you might find a good leather top on a seat with broken rails and re-rivet the good leather to your good rails using copper rivets available from the hardware store. I did this with a pair of B-72s that provided years of cycling comfort.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Robin Hood posted by: Glenn on 6/6/2003 at 12:16:37 AM
Well I brought the new Robin Hood home. I put air in the tires, checked it over, funtions check out, all major components covered with old lubrication, blow by, and dust. Took it out for a spin and it has now become a rider and not a restoration project. I was really surprised as to just how nice it rode. I will probably use it as it was intended ( a utility bike ) and ride it to the local grocery store daily. Thanks for all the advice and I don't know if anyone saw it, but I had asked about referring me to a good restoration or repair manual.
I am going hunting this weekend, so if anybody is looking for a special part or anything else let me know. I found a person who used to sell all kinds of antiques and she has a barn full of old bikes, all piled up and told me I can dig all I want. Wish me luck! and good luck on your endeavours also.

Dave and Chris thanks for the help from before. I did find some Kenda Tires. I think I got that right. Take Care!!!!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Robin Hood posted by Chris on 6/6/2003 at 7:42:46 PM
Don't let it out of your sight! Or carry a "Kryptonite New York Lock"
Remove the front wheel and set it up against the rear wheel and lock the lock through the rear wheel, the front wheel and the frame.
Make arrangements for somebody to watch your bike and bring the whole thing into shops where it will start up conversations and make friends for you.
Ask somebody who you think is attractive to watch your bike for you. This way you get to see him or her all the time!
I do hope it does not wind up on a barge heading out of the country. Having a bike stolen really bites!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Robin Hood posted by Glenn on 6/6/2003 at 11:36:21 PM
Hey Chris, I really don't no how to take you guys sometimes, between you and David. I thought the bike was an ok if you find it and ok if you don't. I really wanted it because of the shape it is in. I have really been enjoying riding it. People at the store really do ask how old it is and are fascinated as I am not a small guy. With all kidding aside is the bike really a decent collector or is it just a so, so rider? If you drop me an e-mail I will send along a photo. About my question on the posting, canyou recommend a good book for maintenance etc. Thanks, Glenn Hey also before I forget, if you have been looking for something for a while, let me know as this place I am going tomorrow would probably be like Christmas to you because you know what youre looking at.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Robin Hood posted by David on 6/7/2003 at 11:14:19 AM
Good grief, Chris. Are you trying to scare Glenn out of riding the Robin Hood? Even in Boston (where I've had a Paramount, an Atala, and a Specialized stolen) you don't need to go to that extreme! One of the great things about 3-speed bikes is that they're so out of fashion and unattractive to thieves. By and large, the people who like them are cognoscenti like ourselves with somewhat higher standards of honor!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Robin Hood posted by Chris on 6/7/2003 at 6:12:24 PM
I'm not trying to scare anybody and he can go enjoy it because it's a 40 dollar bike probably worth no more than $150.00 or so. Still, it is attractive, it can get stolen. We had a lady post here a couple of years ago that her garage was broken into and they left the modern bikes and stole her bike and I think it was a Raleigh Superbe or something like that. A lock is a good idea. Especially if it is mint. I know how you feel, a warning post like I left does make one not want to bother with bikes and I don't mean to take the candy coating off of this find and be a drag just I urged him to be careful as this is a prize. No great valuable fortune would be made from selling it on e- bay but these do get stolen as anything would that attracts attention.
Go enjoy it!
David is right on! The 98% of the folks into these are some of the best, decent, honourable, good, kindly people of good character. A joy and an honor to be associated with and this hobby has real rewards in that department. You have found a good group to hang with.
Perhaps I am overreacting as David says. I just don't want to hear that it was stolen. We hear a lot of "My bike was stolen" type tales and that's why I recommend a good lock or arranging somebody to watch it.
Go enjoy the summer on this. Know the hand signals and rules of the road for bikes. Watch for opening car doors and sewer grates but enjoy yourself and get that exercise. This Robin Hood is a "City Bike" as they say.

AGE / VALUE:   Praise for PCS-4 bike workstand posted by: David Poston on 6/5/2003 at 5:14:16 AM
I just recently received my PCS-4 bike workstand by Park Tools and set it up. Amazed at the quality. Professionally greased, it resembles a tool you'd find in a car mechanic's shop rather than a home mechanic bikestand. I clamped up my New Hudson 28" roadster, wheels and all, and it doesn't budge a bit. It's now been clamped up there for 3 solid days straight. It sure beats using a rickety ladder, or having to lean your bike against the wall.

I can't recommend this stand enough if one wants to really work on their cycle. Removing and adding wheels is a breeze, as well as polishing and waxing those hard to reach parts.

It's worth the measly $168.49 or so that they are asking for it here:


By the way, if you ever need accessories such as locks, go to aebike.com. Their prices are way lower than other retailers on the net, and they deliver promptly as well.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Praise for PCS-4 bike workstand posted by Jeff on 6/5/2003 at 10:23:19 AM
I've been using a PCS-1 (The inexpensive model) for years now and I believe it's one of the best things I ever bought.