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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   hard part posted by: sam on 8/18/2003 at 9:13:50 PM
Primed the DL-1 up-grade project today. Now the hard part-- what color to paint it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   hard part posted by Stacey on 8/19/2003 at 1:52:58 AM
Polar White or Platinum Silver in the rear with a Candy Purple fade from the front has my vote.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   hard part posted by alonzo on 8/19/2003 at 4:18:40 AM
Glorious Rudge Maroon! Then we can share the paint...

   RE:AGE / VALUE: hard part posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/19/2003 at 12:08:54 PM
Humber Polychromatic Lilac with cream-coloured mudguards.

You gotta admire the bloke buying a hot Humber club bike opting for Lilac. Heck, it was the stock colour.

P.C. Kohler

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bottom Bracket Oil Port posted by: Bryan Masone on 8/18/2003 at 9:05:55 PM
Just curious, any ideas why Raleigh stopped making bicycles with the oil port in the bottom bracket? Did they expect us to start using grease instead of oil at that time?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bottom Bracket Oil Port posted by Dick on 8/19/2003 at 1:58:15 AM
Probably someone in the Raleigh design department was embarrassed by its superfluity and expense. After all, one could simply extract the seatpost and pour a few tablespoons of oil down the tube. I discovered this a few months ago through the time-honored "necessity is the mother of invention" route after resolving to avoid pulling the cotter pins at all costs. (BB overhauls and suicide should both be deferred as last resorts.)

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bottom Bracket Oil Port posted by Bryan Masone on 8/19/2003 at 8:33:07 PM
Dick, thank you so much for the seatpost tip. I have been DREADING pulling the cranks to lube the bottom bracket on some of my bikes. In frustration, that was pretty much why I asked the question in the first place. -Bryan

WANTED:   Schwinn Traveler 3 spd SS fenders posted by: Joe on 8/18/2003 at 8:35:38 AM
I am looking for 2 good sets of 26" stainless steel fenders for late 50's or early 60's Schwinn Travelers. I need two front fenders and two rear fenders. They must be in really good condition, no dents or tears. If you have a set for sale, please email me directly throught the link above. I believe these fenders were used from at least '56 to '62, maybe longer. These were the fenders with the finned front tip. (Also posted in 'General For Sale or Wanted')
Thanks, Joe

FOR SALE:   Swap Meet Specials - Northeast Bicycle Swap Meet 24-Aug-03 posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 8/17/2003 at 3:14:23 PM

In addition to vintage cycles and parts, we're bringing new aftermarket parts and oddball tires to the swap at discount prices. For a list, go to the web site for the Northeast Bicycle Swap Meet:


Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.

AGE / VALUE:   Manchester Bicycle posted by: Marcelo Afornali on 8/17/2003 at 12:50:46 AM

I come to ask for information on the bicycle marks Manchester of england manufacture years 50. I more than have this bicycle the 25 years and unhappyly the emblem was lost frontal of this frame. It would like to request to who knows the mark, photos or catalogue of that it helps the recovery me of the same one. The bicycle is hoop 26 with hand brakes the man. The back cube is free wheel and the structure bicycle is very good. To who it will be able to help me, I am thankful anticipatedly. Very obliged mine for the attention.

Marcelo Afornali.


Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Manchester Bicycle posted by Demarest on 8/17/2003 at 3:15:30 AM
Que gran placer, que Ud. ha venido aqui. Quiero ayudarle, OK, hablo el español, y no el portugues, pero es un poco como su idioma.

I want to help this gentleman, I believe, when you say, "mark" on the frontal, you are referring to the Head Badge, maybe what is "marca" in your language, much like marca is brand. You lost the head badge. Are looking for another. I hope someone familiar with Manchester steps up.

I am sorry, Lo siento que no puedo ayudarle mas. VVVintage, is fortunate to have you as a visitor. I hope my little bit aids epero que el poco que he dicho le ayuda helps you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Manchester Bicycle posted by CatfoodRob on 8/18/2003 at 7:12:44 PM
I live 14 miles from Manchester, and didnt know the make existed. Would love to help, but cant!

AGE / VALUE:   Manchester Bicycle posted by: Marcelo Afornali on 8/17/2003 at 12:50:46 AM

I come to ask for information on the bicycle marks Manchester of england manufacture years 50. I more than have this bicycle the 25 years and unhappyly the emblem was lost frontal of this frame. It would like to request to who knows the mark, photos or catalogue of that it helps the recovery me of the same one. The bicycle is hoop 26 with hand brakes the man. The back cube is free wheel and the structure bicycle is very good. To who it will be able to help me, I am thankful anticipatedly. Very obliged mine for the attention.

Marcelo Afornali.


Curitiba - Paraná - Brasil

AGE / VALUE:   Clubman Frame on Ebay? posted by: Bryan Masone on 8/15/2003 at 7:55:21 PM
Hey guys, I found this Sports frame & fork on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2187358516&category=420&rd=1. It claims to be a clubman, but the graphics look like a regular sports. Might this in fact be a clubman? I want it mostly for that cool lamp bracket down low on the front fork, but I'm hesitant to buy yet another sports. What do you think, clubman or sports? Or, are these lamp brackets available anywhere? I'm on the fence about this one.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Clubman Frame on Ebay? posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/16/2003 at 12:10:33 AM
It's a 21" Sports frame in original carmine red. No Clubman was ever painted red or in this size. Or without the thin "pencil" backstays.

Trust me. It leaves right down the hall from me.

Not my auction, etc.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Clubman Frame on Ebay? posted by Bryan on 8/16/2003 at 10:10:48 PM
Thanks P.C., that confirms what I thought.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Clubman Frame on Ebay? posted by Max M. on 8/17/2003 at 9:59:46 PM
Frame is indeed a Sports as described. Clubman is used in the header because I thought it the best descriptor for the dropbar style bikes. These bikes looked similar to the true racer bikes like the Clubman or Record Ace but weighed quite a bit more.
If you have questions about any of my auction items then please do not hesitate to contact me.


MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by: Joe on 8/15/2003 at 3:52:49 AM
I come acrossed an old Brampton 3 speed hub today. I am not real familiar with these hubs, but it looks to be a Sturmey Archer relable or copy. The main difference is that the sprocket screws on instead of the usuall snap ring, there ar numbers on it that read 140B-4 but no S/A type date stamping. It looks to be in great condition, the chrome is nice with only a few light scratches and it turns free and still had oil in it.
My main question is, how old is this? I don't recall seeing an S/A hub with a thread on sprocket, I have a 52 and a 56 here and both of them are snap ring style hubs. It's a 36 hole shell so I would guess it was probably from a 26" bike. The shifter is a match to a S/A under the bar shifter but with the writing place so that it reads correctly above the bar. The hub and shifter say Made in England. What bicycle makes used Brampton?

   RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by Ken on 8/15/2003 at 6:01:45 PM
Isn't there still a Brampton folding bike on the market? Sheldon Brown goes into some detail about threaded drivers:
and says "somewhere in the 1940s S-A changed..." ...he also mentions Hercules, which made their own hubs, threaded, until Raleigh acquired them.

   RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by Schwinnderela on 8/16/2003 at 12:35:42 AM
I have a 1953 Schwinn Varsity three speed with a Brampton rear hub and shifter,I believe this is stock for this bike.

   RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by David on 8/16/2003 at 12:50:55 AM
The folders are Brompton and I doubt they're any relation to this hub.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by Joe on 8/18/2003 at 4:53:20 AM
The '52 and '56 hubs I mentioned are on early Schwinns as well, I also have a '49 New World in progress. They all have S/A branded hubs, with the appropriate date on the respective hubs, all have the snapring type driver. Could the Brampton be even older?
I take it by the name Schwinnderela you may be somewhat knowledgable about the early Schwinn three speeds? My '56 which looks to be all original, and in fairly nice shape, has no model decal on it? It shares the same tubular forks with the earlier New world, but the rest is similar to my '61 & '62 Travelers. The seat post and "Schwinn" decals are intact, but both the top and bottom tubes have Schwinn script on them, the chainguard is blank.
I didn't realize the Varsity emblem went that far back. That adds another name to the list of posibilities, I've seen early fifties New Worlds, and one mid fifties Racer, the earliest I've seen the Traveler name is '57. The 56's chainguard is the same stamping as the 60's Traveler's, the forks look like those on my '49 and '52 New Worlds. The '56 has an under the bar S/A trigger shifter, S-6 wheels, and an odd version of touring bars. The handle bars are similar to the standard North Road style but the grip ends curve around further, making the grips parallel to one another. The '56 also has stainless fenders. The frame is a medium blue metalic. If anyone has a way to id the model of one of these, let me know. It seems everyone has saved the balloon tire models and overlooked the earlier Schwinn Lightweights, all of the info I seem to find only covers the balloon tire bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/18/2003 at 8:06:10 PM
"We don't make bicycles, we make bicycles possible"
That was an ad slogan they used.
Brampton was a company with all sorts of presses and tooling that was used to make copies of the Sturmey- Archer 3 speed hub. The types with the threaded drivers and innard parts machined from solid steel. There is no date stamp on these hubs but the quality is most excellent. The shifters are different but you can use a regular Sturmey shift transmission cable in them. They made a more updated copy of the Sturmey- Archer A.W. 3 speed hub.( The parts of a Brampton hub and also the parts of the Hercules Cycle and Motor hubs are interchangable with Sturmey- Archer type A.W. 3 speed and interchangable between Brampton and Hercules. Steyr and/ or Steyr- Daimler Puch too) unlike B.S.A.( which is not interchangable with Brampton and Hercules and Steyr) who made an earlier and far better version of the old school Sturmey- Archer hub. The B.S.A. hub is a different model hub than the Brampton hub but both are 3 speeds and both have their roots going back into Sturmey- Archer.

Brampton made bottombracket parts and regular 3 speed hubs and front axles and front hubs. Shifters, cables, other things. Brampton was a large player.
Based in Birmingham, England where Hercules was also.
Phillips was in Birmingham where they had the Credenda Works. These companies were all part of the British Cycle Corporation or B.C.C. until a merger with Raleigh.
In 1955 Raleigh took over or amamalgated with B.S.A. and then the T.I. Raleigh/ Sturmey- Archer folks immediately withdrew the early Sturmey- Archer hub that was really the B.S.A. 3 speed hub.
This was a tragedy because the B.S.A. hub ( The old school Sturmey- Archer hub) was far better then the then current Sturmey- Archer A.W. hub. The B.S.A. had better/more of bearings and was so smooth and reliable and solid parts machined from hard steel and it is a rare treat to own and ride one of those. It has a round axle that prevents it from being used in a Raleigh bike. The B.S.A. has a round axle whereas Raleigh bikes and Sturmey- Archer hubs have flat axles and flat dropouts in the bike.
No, the B.S.A.hub was intended for an B.S.A. bicycle.
(Unless you modify something) like the frame of the bike like me! (grin)

Shop folks acted weird when they saw that hub. (My experience)
Brampton and Phillips who made bicycles too and Hercules who also made bicycles all in Birmingham and it was all huge!Every company was huge and made a lot of things.
It's all gone.
Merged with Raleigh, folded up, closed up, scrapped and wasted with abandon. Things were made in Raleigh- land which was in Nottingham.
I have a article about J.A. Phillips "Credenda Works"
they show the cables being made and there is a picture of this lovely lass in overalls and she's holding up the largest and the smallest pedals and it is representative of the wide range of pedals that Phillips made. Not soon after, Raleigh bought it/ took over and I don't think they all had jobs there for very long after the Raleigh/ T.I. merger. What happened to the Credenda works? It was absorbed by Raleigh and closed but when, I don't know.
It's all gone, lost in the mist of time. Raleigh stopped making pedals all together! In Nottingham, in Birmingham,
no more British made pedals. That must have been cataclysmic because a lot of people were imployed in the manufacture of pedals! The Pedals on Raleigh bikes first were changed to a sintered bearing type, an cheaper arrangement and everybody HATED RALEIGH'S NEW PEDALS! then it was moved all together to Germany where the Union company made cheaper pedals with a Raleigh Heron die stamped into the German pedal. It was really something. A terrible blow and Raleigh had other plans and changes. This mereger was on a huge scale and took some time to impliment.

Today, the Union/ Raleigh pedal is sought after by Raleigh Chopper collectors and these go up to 80 for a set of these pedals. E- bay is crazy!

Anyways, Brampton. They made bicycle fittings.
What happened to the tooling, the buildings themselves, when did they go under or up away into the great bicycle parts factory in the sky?
I'm thinking maybe in like, 1962 in there someplace.
There was a lot of tooling about that made Sturmey- Archer hubs in use. Demand was great. It was spread about. hubs that are really Sturmey- Archer hubs wear Brampton, Hercules, Steyr and others too. This is called badge engineering.
What happened to all that tooling?
I'd like to know.
One of the largest auto parts suppliers today, the Dana Corporation got it's start being a distributor/jobber for cycles and cycle parts. They once were the mighty and beloved Brown Brothers Empire. (Brown Brothers aircraft fittings L.T.D. too) They sold everything cycle related and motor cycle and auto back then.
Great fortunes, many fortunes were made off of the simple bicycle trade.
There is a article from Vernon Forbes at the Tony Hadland website to read.
Read the book the Sturmey- Archer Story and the updates of it at Hadland .net
Collect all this stuff, save it, ride it, repair it and hop it up with hybrid gear projects. It's interesting and a blast to have and a joy to ride this stuff.
These British companies made derailers too.

Derailers. It gets even more interesting. Go get the book.
Dancing Chain history and developement of the derailer bicycle by Frank Berto.
Then go hunt the vintage derailers!
Brampton is the same as a Sturmey- Archer A.W. hub. treat it as such.
Go into the used bookstore, in the bicycle repair section. the books you will find are AWESOME and really helpful.

Save all this stuff, offer it on e- bay. it is collectable.
have fun, happy hunting, e- mail me if I can be of help!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Brampton Hub posted by Joe on 8/19/2003 at 6:35:42 AM
Thanks for the info!
Where all of the Brampton hubs made with threaded drivers? or might the one I have here be an older version?
Is there anyway to date one of these?
Thanks, Joe

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Hawthorne Montgomery Wards posted by: Demarest on 8/15/2003 at 1:42:52 AM

Excellent photos, article,

I feel like not adding much more on, cause some of these people, like Fred, come and read these articles. But these 3 speed webpages, are vastly expanded upon from what I remember last year. Interesting footnote.

AGE / VALUE:   Need Raleigh Sports front mudguard in black posted by: David Poston on 8/14/2003 at 7:43:36 PM
I am also in want of a Raleigh Sports front mudguard in black in good condition. It can have the wire stays, but should be a Raleigh type mudguard. I replaced the original mudguard with a Phillips type because the original was too beat up; however, the Phillips just doesn't look "right." (Has anyone else noticed that there are differences?) I can do a swap (if someone needs a Phillips front mudguard or other parts) or will pay cash. I'm trying to wrap up my wife's '55 Raleigh Sports project.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tandem roadsters posted by: David on 8/14/2003 at 1:44:07 PM
Who made tandem roadsters and when? There was a 28" wheel tandem on Ebay a couple years ago; rod-operated drum brakes, 3-speed hub. I don't recall the brand, but someone mentioned a Sun recently here. Was there a special heavy-duty AB hub for tandems, too?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tandem roadsters posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/15/2003 at 7:29:02 PM
Are you sure this had 28" wheels? Wow! That's a first I've seen. Dunlop actually made special tandem tyres but I think only in 26" x 1 3/8" so this was the common size. Must have been a real old timer and quite enormous. And rod brakes as well? I don't think I'd want this coming around a corner at me on my lithe and nimble Clubman... like a PT Boat meeting the QUEEN MARY.

By the way, those of you enjoying the series of wonderful illustrations from the 1933 Hercules catalogue in "Roll Britannia" will have a bit longer to wait than the grand finale... the Hercules tandem in a very romantic "situation."

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   Need "button" tailight posted by: David Poston on 8/14/2003 at 6:27:17 AM
Does anyone have a SA/Raleigh "button" tailight which they'd be willing to sell or trade for parts? I'm looking for the c. 1940s-50s version with the black body and red lens. I'm trying to complete my DL-1 AG dynohub project.


AGE / VALUE:   Longing for the Dunlop of old posted by: Chris on 8/13/2003 at 11:19:27 PM
In "Toy's R' Us" the other day.Next to stuffed giraffes (the "Geoffery" mascot) there were some bikes and one of the icky mountain bikes wore the name DUNLOP across the down tube.
Dunlop! The bike before me clashed against my memory of the real deal. The real Dunlop cycle related things.
What I cherish is another world away from what Dunlop is today.
This is a good thing to see. The name on a bike. They should be doing this, at least get something out of the name.
But still, it is in: Toys R Us.
Next to the Huffy or whatever it was.

Dunlop has been associated with bikes before. Back in the good old days.
Back before everyting got so crazy and cheap on us.

Dunlop stood for quailty. Rims, Rubber seats, other things. Dunlop was a big player in the bicycle realm back in the day.

I want to sift thru the stuff of the past. See the pictures, save the old inventory from landfil, collect and preserve the old Dunlop stuff. I'm certain I am too late.
Others were there when Dunlop closed old factories. Some of what I am after (and other collectors too) was saved I believe. I have not heard from anybody who was there.
It's like the earth opened up and swallowed it all up.
It's all gone.
The name Dunlop on a bicycle again. It was interesting to see.
I have pump washers in metal tins, patch kits, Dunlop offered all sorts of things.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hubbub in my hub posted by: larkin on 8/13/2003 at 7:59:10 PM
Normally I commute on my Hercules but today I took the Humber because the Herc had a flat tire. Halfway there I shifted up into 3rd gear and started pedaling hard, "on the nut" as they say, in order to beat the overtaking car traffic to the left hand turn I was making. Just as I was cruising through the turn the hub slipped into neutral for a brief second, which nearly sent me tumbling to the ground. VERY embarassing and a little scary to say the least. This did not occur as I was shiftiing, I had been in 3rd gear for a couple hundred feet. Its a 1971 AW. What can I do about this problem? I've had this happen before with this bicycle. I put a lot of miles on my fleet of English bikes and I ride fast. Do I need a complete overhaul, or is there something I can try myself? I'm a little afraid of working on a Sturmey Archer hub due to my lack of experience, but I am willing to try if anyone has good advice. I live in CT, so I may just bring it up to Sheldon if I can't get it working properly. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you for your attention if you've gotten this far.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hubbub in my hub posted by Chris on 8/13/2003 at 11:02:36 PM
Take it to Sheldon. Offer to run and get him a soda or fruit juce or something. Try to find a time when the shop is not too busy.

Go over the adjustment notes. You know, put it in second gear and see if the end of the indicator chain in flush with the axle end.
I would just take it to Sheldon and listen to him.
Have him show you with the bike there between you two.
If this can slip on you like this something may be off somewhere in the hub. Wear on something, a kinked out cable or something.
I can type but I cannot see the bike and the hub.
Good Luck!
This is a great excuse to go see the shop and the folks there!
In the mean time, use another wheel or another one of the fleet.

If you have been putting miles on the bike perhaps it is time for a complete hub overhaul.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Hubbub in my hub posted by Matt Harter on 8/14/2003 at 2:30:00 PM
I have had several well meaning 3 speed bicycles that express emotions this way. Twice I found that the problem was caused by the right axle nut being too far out on the axle, interfering with movement of the indicator chain. If there is a rack on this bike, it could be taking up too much axle space, or their might be too many washers, or too thick a washers.


AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by: sam on 8/13/2003 at 4:51:51 PM
I'm proceeding slowly but making progress.This photo shows the rear end with V-brakes , derailer, Alum.wheel,and the (40x635)Vee-Rubber tyre I plan on using---sam http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=359377

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by Stacey on 8/13/2003 at 10:47:31 PM
OHMYGAWD!!! You did THAT to a DL-1?!?!?!? I'm ashast!!!

No, wait... I do the same bloddy thing :-) Looks great Sam, rock on bro'!

PS-I've got a nice lightweight plastic spoke guard if you trie of the 'pie plate'

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/13/2003 at 11:43:26 PM
What kind of derailer exactly?

Looks awesome!

The mechanic who told me you cannot weld or braze onto this frame was out of his mind.
Sam here has affixed a V brake onto the ORIGINAL RALEIGH BACKSTAY!

Notice how Sam has the derailer claw flipped over or reversed.
It is reversed, right?
Is that permanently welded or fixed into the frame?
How was this frame blasted? How was the paint removed?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by sam on 8/14/2003 at 12:20:38 AM
I beleave in the Hotrodders creed "Don't rod what can be restored" This frame I picked out of the bone pile at Hanks.Frame and fork was all that was left.It's been sand plasted--still will need a second light blast when all the parts fit as I require.The derailer and rear hub/gears are from a schwinn breese.I did revierse the hanger which took a little "fix" to work right.This was a simple job but did require some welding/grinding/bending.It's bolted on just as on the schwinn.The V-brake bosses were simple to brase on thinks to Robert who lent me the use of a jig he made for this.And the Alum wheels made it possible to use the V-brakes.Again Robert lased the wheels!!These wheels are really the Hart of this project.They allow the use of the standard rodester tyre(40x635).I suppose you could also use a 700 wheel but the tyre size would be smaller.In keeping the original tyre size I feel this makes it right.---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/14/2003 at 5:41:05 PM
The fact that you found a regular aluminum endrick style rim that uses the 28 X 1 1/2 40-635 Raleigh Tourist type tire is what amazes me.

I had no idea that such a rim existed. Still, you have been pulling miracles out of your hat with me going: Ohh and Ahh.
I referr to your studded masterpiece of a tire and the other good quality tires and tubess from the gods of Mexico!
You have the adaptor claw reversed.
Will that work?
Grinding and bending and welding. yes. that what is would take.

You were wise in not fiddling with the tire size. This frame needs this exact size/ type tire and anything else would not ride right.

Perhaps somebody will cut up a frame and widen the rear end and weld or braze it back together with a spacer in there to take advantage of the newer tires. How about a 29 inch Raleigh Tourist?

Where can one buy a frame boss jig for this type activity? Something complete with instructions?
I'd be interested.

It will happen, one day.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 up-grade posted by David on 8/16/2003 at 12:34:35 PM
Sam, DO reveal your source for 28" alum rim.