This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by: David Poston on 8/8/2003 at 5:00:28 PM
OK, I'm finally getting to around to assembling my rear AG dynothree wheel, shipped to me from Harvey Russell at COY. The dynohub side looks ready to go, but I'm having difficulty on the sprocket side. There are two washers, a dust cap, the sprocket, and a round ring with a break in it. Couple of questions:

a) Is this order correct? Dust cap, washer, washer, sprocket, ring.

b) How on earth do you get the ring to go on, to hold the sprocket in place? I spent a good half hour of frustration with a screwdriver and my fingers.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by Edward in Vancouver on 8/8/2003 at 10:44:06 PM
The washers are called spacing rings, and if you look at the cog, you'll notice a "dish" or cup to it. This all has to do with keeping the chain line straight, and it gives you from 1/8"to 1/2"of space to play with. Try with the dustcap first, then one ring, the cog with the dish facing out, another ring, and then the cir-clip. The cir-clip is a@#$%$ to put on with only a screwdriver, but it can be done. An auto parts store should have circ-clip pliars. The ends of the pliars have grooves to hold the clip which you can spread slightly apart and slip over the grooves on the driver.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by Ian on 8/9/2003 at 10:04:27 AM
Sounds like what David has is not a circlip but a lockring to secure a threaded sprocket which is the earlier type of hub. If this is so then the ring is left hand thread, that is you have to turn it the opposite way to usual to do it up. Screw the sprocket on the usual way and then the ring the other way to lock against it and prevent the sprocket from unwinding. Adjust the position of the sprocket with the spacer rings as per the previous post. Cheers, Ian

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by Stacey on 8/9/2003 at 10:18:26 AM
David, if what you are trying to install looks like a large diameter piece of wire formed in a circle and not welded shut then it's a snap ring. The ones I've seen on S/A hubs don't have provisions to engage a standard snap ring plier tip.

There is a "ring pusher tool" made that will do the job. But, I've had great success just using my thumbs. Start the ring 180 degrees away from the split end and working towards the split press the ring in place with your thumbs. It's a 10 second job, maybe 15 if you stop for a smoke.

Good Luck!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by David Poston on 8/9/2003 at 5:20:16 PM
It looks like what Stacey described (a snap ring), not a threaded lock ring. (I think the hub is dated '71). I also noticed that the snap ring pliers at the hardware store are designed to insert into little holes that allow you to spread the snap ring. Unfortunately, the one on the SA hub is just a large diameter piece of wire in a circle. I've tried my thumbs but to no avail, so I will need some sort of tool for this one.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by Joe on 8/10/2003 at 5:32:25 AM
I've done many of these with no special tool, I simply start the ring with it's open end halfway between two of the small notches around the groove, I use a small flat screwdriver and my thumb and simply work the ring on just like putting a tire on a rim. Be carefull not to let the ring slip while starting it. I use one of those screw drivers like you find with the auto parts stores name or tool dealers name on it.
Good luck!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SA hub questions posted by Stacey on 8/10/2003 at 4:52:10 PM
David, try this... take your wheel, sprocket & snap ring to your local Sears store. Go to the Hardware section and find the socket display. Find a socket that will fit over the driver but still catch the snap ring... probably have to look in the 3/4" drive stuff, tho' you might find a 1/2" drive that big. Buy the socket. Assemble the sprocket & spacres to give you a good chain line. Once all that's decided, support the backside of the hub put it all together, lay the snap ring in place, then cover it with the socket. Frist try pushing it on, if that dosen't work grab a mallet and give it a light rap... don't try to drive it to China Just a rap should pop it in.

If you're not comfortable with that you could always pack it all up and take it to the LBS.

MISC:   WARNING: possible scam posted by: Charlie on 8/8/2003 at 1:48:07 PM
I wanted to warn folks who have posted on some bicycle news groups (even those who posted over a year ago).
I received a very odd email today urging me to send my full name, address AND cellphone number if I wanted to
sell my bike(s). Besides the message being written in very poor English, it asked for information on several
completely different bikes (as if I had posted somewhere an ad to sell them). There was other information that
made the email appear to be a scam, but I wanted to let people in this bicycle group know about it since this is
one of the few places I have posted (and did so a long time ago).

WANTED:   RALEIGH SPORT 50's or 60's posted by: ron on 8/7/2003 at 11:42:52 AM
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone out there has a Raleigh sport 50's or 60's model with enclosed chain guard mens bike that they would like to sell, regular hand brake please???

   RE:WANTED:   RALEIGH SPORT 50's or 60's posted by Mark R. on 8/8/2003 at 5:28:11 PM
I have a 60's Raleigh Sports, and a 60's Robinhood Sports, I'd like to sell, but they have the hockey stick chain guard. I can send pictures.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   RALEIGH SPORT 50's or 60's posted by ron on 8/8/2003 at 11:41:02 PM
can you send a pictures of the bikes

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   RALEIGH SPORT 50's or 60's posted by Mark R. on 8/10/2003 at 11:41:39 AM
I will send one today.

WANTED:   Black/chrome B66 wanted posted by: David on 8/7/2003 at 10:40:37 AM
I'd like to buy a black and chrome B66 saddle (my T&C tandem looks terrible w/one black and one brown!) If you have a decent one you'd part with, please email me off line. I'd be willing to swap the brown w/black frame saddle, too.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Rudge and '77 Sport? posted by: opie on 8/6/2003 at 1:28:12 PM
I'm about to go look at a few older bikes in my area, one is identified by its owner as a Raleigh Sport, brown, with an 18" frame and two hand brakes. I saw the catalogs on RetroRaleighs.com and it looks like it might be a 1977 model. On the site I also noted the comment that in 1977 Raleigh fleshed out its line with 'unimpressive Rampar badged Japanese imports'. Does anyone know if the pre-existing lines, like the Sport, were effected by this? I want this bike for it's quality and its size, so if it's a lesser Raleigh than other years I'd just keep looking. I'm also going to see a 1969 Rudge, does anyone know if one bike is better quality than the other? Thanks for any help, I'm new at this and am trying to gather info. before I miss out on the bikes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Rudge and '77 Sport? posted by Joe on 8/6/2003 at 2:10:43 PM
As far as I know, all of the Asian built bikes were badged "Rampar".
Check the serial numbers so you can tell the years of the bike you are going to look at. (1st digit= plant, 2nd digit= 'fortnight'(2 week period) 3rd digit=year)
Good Luck!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Rudge and '77 Sport? posted by opie on 8/6/2003 at 7:48:31 PM
Thanks for clarifying, Joe!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Rudge and '77 Sport? posted by Dick on 8/7/2003 at 5:21:06 AM
That 18" frame compels me to suspect that the 1977 might possibly be a Raleigh Colt made for juveniles. If so, describing it as a Sport would not be far off the mark as the Colt employed the highest standards of construction; viz., welded fender stays, Raleigh pattern wheels, braze-ons instead of clips. Look fo a curved top tube. BTW: Mine, also a 1977, is like a Faberge egg. Good luck!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '69 Rudge and '77 Sport? posted by Ken on 8/7/2003 at 4:50:51 PM
Sorry for belaboring what may be obvious: the 77 Sports is badged and decaled Nottingham; the Japanese frames are also clearly marked with their origin. In hindsight you can get a split opinion on the quality question, but for most of us _English_ is the operative word...

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Seeking book posted by: Brian on 8/6/2003 at 12:23:52 PM
Anyone have a extra copy of "The Sturmey Archer Story" to sell?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Seeking book posted by Edward in Vanouver on 8/6/2003 at 10:47:24 PM
No way Hosé, my well thumbed copy is on a high shelf with all my other literary treasures, well out of reach of the kids. Contact Tony Hadland and he'd be glad to sell you one, probably even sign it as well. Can't stress enough that once you have the book, you'll never regret buying it, even has top secret directions to turn a 4 spd hub into a 5 spd with just a few parts.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Seeking book posted by Brian on 8/6/2003 at 11:50:34 PM
..right up there with Anthony Bourdain's, "Kitchen Confidential" and multiple editions of Art Culinaire?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Stowaway posted by: Warren on 8/5/2003 at 1:52:51 AM
I picked up an 81 Stowaway...the newer incarnation of the Twenty. $29 At the thrift store and it is like new, nary a scratch. Champagne coloured...it's got a very small sprocket on the AW hub (I'll count tomorrow). Looks to be as nice as any of the Twenties I've seen. Tracks great with hands off the bars and it folds up in ten seconds. Kinda like a "Fisher-Price Roadster" or "My First Sports Bike". Fun.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Stowaway posted by David on 8/5/2003 at 10:22:32 AM
Does this model retain the plastic upper bushing on the steering? Or does it have ball bearings top and bottom? My 20 won't ride no-hands worth a darn...

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Stowaway posted by Warren on 8/5/2003 at 8:04:08 PM
I don't see any plastic bits...looks like all steel parts. The rear cog appears to be a 14...put that on a Sports with a 46 tooth chainring and a wide range AW and you would have one big farging top gear...

46 x 14 on a 590 mm bead wheel with an AW hub is....113.5...85.1 and 63.8 gear inches according to Sheldons calculator...that's a nice range when you think about it.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Bicycle Company Archives posted by: Madeline Douglass on 8/4/2003 at 2:43:39 PM

Nottinghamshire Archives
holds the records of Raleigh Bicycle Company:

Mark Dorrington
Principal Archivist
Nottinghamshire Archives
County House
Castle Meadow Road
Nottingham , England U.K. NG2 1AG.

MISC:   Trying to get proper ajustment on AW hub? posted by: Joe on 8/4/2003 at 4:23:14 AM
I may be asking a stupid question, but I just finished refurbing a Sturmey Ardher AW equipped 3 speed and I can't seem to get the shifting right.
I have a new old stock S/A trigger, 54" S/A cable and a 1968? S/A hub. The cable is a factory S/A made original item as well. The indicator pin measures 47 mm shoulder to shoulder.
The problem I have is that in order to get all three gears to shift, I have to leave an exceptional amount of slack in the cable, In second gear, the rod is just beyond the end of the axle slightly and it shift's most of the time.
The cable is actually hanging and rattling on the chainstay, it's so loose that the trigger end flops down in the key slot and thus changes the ajustment at time while shifting. In low gear, the cable is pulled tight and I can only pull the indicator another few thousanths of an inch. I tried a different cable, and different length indicator pins as well as the old shifter, no change.
It shifted fine when I disassembled it a few years ago, but the cable and shifter were rough, someone had even spliced the cable by adding 2 stops and added a section in the middle, but it worked. I now have everything original and it doesn't want to adjust out. I don't remember having so much slack in high gear? (What if this was a bare cable and roller system? The cable is so loose it would fall off of a roller).
One thing I found odd about the hub is that it has no date code, I've owned the bike since 1974 and it was made in '68, I never replaced the hub, but can't say for sure about it's first 5 years. The hub has a plastic oiler cap and a different pattern logo than I've seen before, I have a late model hub here and it's different than that and much fancier than the early ones. "AW" is very large and obvious.
Anyhow, if anyone has run across a similar problem or knows a fix, please let me know.

   RE:MISC:   Trying to get proper ajustment on AW hub? posted by Warren on 8/4/2003 at 9:10:04 PM
There were a couple of different lengths in indicator rods/chains. I'd say get a new one if this one is bent. Is the indcator rod screwed in all the way and then backed off one turn? That much cable slack is useless...third gear is just loose...second gear must move the chain a little...first gear takes up the rest.

One other issue...the long drive side nut that houses the indicator chain was made in two pieces sometime in the 70's. I had a hard time setting a hub up one occassion so I swapped it out for a one piece model and it was fine. Just don't ask me why I had to change it...it was some time ago.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Trying to get proper ajustment on AW hub? posted by Joe on 8/5/2003 at 6:21:00 AM
Hi, Thanks for the response, I double checked the adjustment again, in second gear the end of the rod is flush with the end of the axle, the pin is stamped "S1", so I believe I have the correct one. I also checked that "neutral" is half way between second and third.
It shifts ok down but sometimes is irratic shifting up into third. The cable is new, and so is the trigger. I also have a new right axle nut installed, I'm not sure if it's a one or two peice one though.It is stamped S/A and has a crosshatch pattern engraved on it near the end. I tried another rear wheel off a known good bike today, it's better but not perfectly smooth. There is still a lot of slack in third, if I adjust the cable to line up in second, then when shifted back to third it would take about six turns of the barrel nut to take up the slack. The slack really doesn't affect this setup, but I am working on another bike that uses a pulley and open cable setup. (This is the bike that I took the wheel from). If that one has this much slack in third, will I have trouble keeping the cable on the pulley?
I also don't doubt that there may be some wear in the hub, but it worked fine years ago, so I left it alone. I am concerned that something may be hanging up and it may not be fully engaging third? I can jog the indicator a little and it does return a bit more into the hub at times. I think I eliminated all external problems by replacing all parts, the only thing left is the hub itself. (I removed a cyclometer from this bike that had 9,891 miles showing on it and it was broken and for who knows how long). The hub may have 20,000 miles on it? I didn't worry about it since it worked well, but maybe sitting so long may have allowed the internals to get "sticky". I added some thinner lube to see if it works it's way back to normal for now, meanwhile I guess I'll build up a spare matching wheel with a fresh hub.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Trying to get proper ajustment on AW hub? posted by Warren on 8/5/2003 at 11:17:30 PM
Just confirm that the rod is one turn from full insertion yes? You appear to be using second gear as a reference or starting point. Third gear is where you should start...use the adjuster to give you a little slack and see if it gives you a clean shift into the lower two gears. Don't start with second and make adjustments to give you third...capice?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Trying to get proper ajustment on AW hub? posted by Joe on 8/6/2003 at 5:27:09 AM
I do understand what your saying. I did originally set this up by putting the shifter in 3rd, setting the barrel screw about halfway, and then I mounted the rear cable stop to just barely take up the slack in the cable. But when set that way I couldn't even pull it into 2nd gear. I had to loosen the barrel almost to the last thread just to get it to reach low gear and the clicks on the trigger wouldn't match the gear I was in. I had to move the clamp on the chainstay rearward about an inch and reset the cable so that the indicator rod would be pulled out about even with the axle inorder to be able to get it to shift and stay in the lower gears. With this setting, the 'neutral' position between 2nd and 3rd falls midway between the two positions and it stays in each gear when pedaling. If I shorten or lengthen the adjustment I loose 3rd or 1st gears respetively. I am just concerned that the extra slack when shifted to 3rd could be a sign of a problem. The more I ride it, the better it shifts, but the amount of slack when in 3rd gear is still irratic, depending on how hard I release the trigger. If I flip the lever up to third fast and let it snap to it's stop, much more of the cable slack is taken up, if I gently shift it to the last click, the cable sits and rattles on the chainstay. (The idicator pin is new and not bent). I can stop and jog the indicator pin a little and sometimes it will snap further into the hub. It's almost like it may not be all the way into third? Even if I remove the cable, and move the rod by hand, it doesn't go back smoothly all the time (with the wheel freeewheeling of course). If I shiift it into 3rd and the cable is slack, the indicator does eventually slide back into the hub and take up some more slack. It's like there isn't enough spring pressure pulling it into 3rd? After looking at a parts breakdown, I am wondering of it might have a weak clutch spring or just some gum or dirt inside? Especially since it probably has a ton of miles on it and has sat for years idle. I guess whats got me is that I have several S/A hub equipped bikes and have never had a problem before, these hubs have been so reliable, that I may be just looking past the posibility that I have finally got one that has a problem. I have had so many bikes that I found that sat for years, even outside, and simply aired the tires, freed and lubed teh cables and they rode and shifted. But of course many of those probably never got any miles on them, this one has at least 9,000 miles just going by the odometer. (I rode it myself as a kid 15 to 20 miles a day delivering newspapers for 5 years) and that was with the broken cyclometer!
Thanks again,

AGE / VALUE:   The real reason Chris wanted to work on the bike, not what she thought. posted by: Chris on 8/3/2003 at 5:16:22 PM
The bike was not for sale but I found a way that I could tinker with it.
I borrowed the bike. Usually I refuse when they ask if I would overhaul it for them.
I got into the bike. It was work! The cables were shot and it called out to be worked on.I had to get into my stash of flat American braces and I matched up missing fenders and replaced wheels and added a light kit and returned it and adjusted the seat and then the bad part.
"Dude, I want a bell." I lied and said I had no bell and to go to a shop and get a new one. She didn't believe it. She said I as a collector dude must have a bell. I relented and brought her a Lucas bell and stuck it on the bike. She didn't think I was going to add a light kit. It was a surprise. Her eyes fell out at the sight if it.
Now she is all over the neighborhood and I look up and there she is, ringing that bell.
Dude, Why did you do all this for me? She asks.
Oh she's happy but wondering what is my motivation for fixing the bike.
I said: I'm glad you'll be up on the bike now and riding with your kid but I did not do this for you really at all.
"I wanted to overhaul this and make it cool and this was them only way I could work on this particular bike seeing as you owned it and wouldn't sell it. I did this for myself and I enjoyed it. I like old bikes."
"I see, so you and the bike had a thing going and I'm not involved in this?
She looked at me strangely, she did not have me figured out after all.
She didn't offer to cook me dinner either and I like it like that.
You watch, she'll probably leave it out in the rain.

AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/3/2003 at 4:55:46 PM
I spot the bike and get interested and then: WHAM!
The bike is free, she called out.
Do you know why it is free?
BECAUSE SOMEBODY PAINTED IT! Aieeeehhhhaaaa- aaarrrggghhh!
Yup! No decals, the badge is covered, silver paint on the rims too. It is the silver paint that really bugs me.
It's a ladies bike. A large, in the way item they are hopeing to get rid of.
A Higgans or Hawthorn or something like that. No dents, wide covering chainguard, it's worth probably something to somebody.
Most of you would have grabed it. It has potential!
Complete, no rust or dents or damage other than paint.
I am going to coin a phraise for this bike painting activity.
What is an appropriate term for a lovely bike that has been ruined by paint over it's original decals and badges and paint?

This bike has been..... (something)
The British use the word: Knackered. Nothing profane mind you, but a new term. Something creative.


I am going to close my eyes and feel around and remove the wheels without looking at it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by Edward in Vancouver on 8/4/2003 at 12:55:08 AM
Silver, eh? Gotta be silver. Well, it makes sense, my Superbe was covered in Canadian Tire's finest silver spray paint as well. I think I cried when I saw a an F Moser road bike last week, it was covered in silver spray paint locked to a street sign with a cheap U-lock-which had scraped away the paint and revealed a brilliant candy apple red on the top tube. In the spaghetti westerns they always lynched horse thieves, what about those 5 minute spray paint jobs?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by David on 8/4/2003 at 8:37:11 PM
It must be less common with roadsters than with higher-end machines, but the crummy spray job is often an attempt to disguise a stolen bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by Chris on 8/5/2003 at 4:04:07 PM
There is truth to that but so many times it is just because a complete idiot got ahold of the poor defenseless bike and there was nobody to stop them from going ape with the paint brush or spray can.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by Fred on 8/5/2003 at 9:38:26 PM
Chris, a knacker is one who picks up dead animals from farmers and does whatever a knacker does. Whatever it is it is not nice. In the TV series, "All Creatures great and small", there were scenes where the knacker would eat his lunch sitting on a dead cow.

   NO Problem posted by Ray on 8/5/2003 at 9:41:30 PM
I see that silver treatment a lot. I think it is one of the easiest paints to remove safely. Try this in an inconspicuous spot first. Take some acetone (you can get it at Sears but be careful it is extremly flamable)or get some girly nail polish remover (same as acetone) and with a clean rag rub some on the painted surface in small circles. Stop when you see the original finish come through. I have done many bikes like this and the silver disappears quickly. You will need a lot of rags and an open space for venting but it works. Also 3M makes a paste paint remover that works slow but is great. You brush it on, it looks like elmers glue, wait a few minutes and wipe it off. Depending how long you leave it in place it will remove one light layer or all the way down to the metal frame. Learn how to time this stuff and you can remove house paint and still leave the original finish intact and beautiful.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not again! posted by Chris on 8/8/2003 at 4:27:14 PM
That word does not fit then. Thanks for the clue in.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help with 3-speed hub posted by: Mike on 8/3/2003 at 12:58:55 PM
Can any one help me with a SA 3-speed hub with coaster brake that will not engage 1st gear? I have tried adjusting the cable in every possible position. The 2nd and 3rd gears work fine but 1st gear will not engage - instead of engaging 1st gear it stays in 2nd gear even though the chain is pulled all the way out of the hub. Can anyone offer me some advice with this problem? Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:    G.B. Courreur Plus. Plastic bushings! Aieeehha Oohh. posted by: Chris on 8/2/2003 at 7:14:01 PM
The G.B. Courrer Plus brake set has plastic bushings. I did not break, damage or lose them. A miracle! The piece has survived dissassembly and cleaning and polishing and is now re- assembled. Phew! I saw those plastic bushings and it was a surprise that they were plastic.
Now that I have seen plastic bushings I know what they are and I can collect up these when I see them in the old shop drawers.

Next, the pedals.
I can re-use the old master link with the new skip tooth chain. The very chain I went crazy trying to secure. Finally, he agreed to sell it to me after years of lookin at it. Blue and beautiful!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    G.B. Courreur Plus. Plastic bushings! Aieeehha Oohh. posted by Chris on 8/3/2003 at 5:16:07 PM
What if these break or crack. Anybody ever had a problem with broken bushings?

AGE / VALUE:   Cotter pins in the 57 Flying Scot, here we go, Oh My. posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/2/2003 at 7:09:44 PM
These cotter pins are longer than usual and have a special original domed nut and I want to remove them to get at the bottombracket.

I'm afraid to touch them!
It's soaking in oil, the crank part where these pins are. After a good week of soaking I'll try to get these pins out. I want to re- use these pins. It'll be the most careful pin removal job ever.

AGE / VALUE:   comrade bike posted by: Robert Adelman on 8/2/2003 at 3:53:43 AM
I have a bicycle my grandfather purchased new, I believe in the 1930s. The head badge says "Comrade Bicycle Co. Ltd." belows that the first word is partially there "...ASTON STAFFS" where the "..." is missing letters. On the seat tube it says "Roadster Model" written down the tube on the inside of the front triangle. The bike has pushrod brakes, leather saddle, the seat stays are bolted on. It has a small oil port on the bottom bracket. It has pump holders tabs welded on the down tube on the inside of the triangle. My Uncle tells me it had fenders on it when it at one point but they are no longer there. If anyone who has any information on this bike it would be greatly appreciated.