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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Cycle flags posted by: David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 10:45:32 PM

When, where, and who mounted these? Maybe I should ask "why" also. Wonderful little accessory.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Nice Canadian Bike posted by: Chris on 9/18/2003 at 11:19:40 AM
I saw this old 3 speed bike on Ebay and was wondering who made it. Interesting bike like Raleigh Sports but with drop bars. Anyone know about these bikes. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2192527152&category=420&rd=1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Nice Canadian Bike posted by Warren on 9/18/2003 at 12:52:08 PM
Just supersize that side profile and you can see the telltale mudguard tabs directly behind the axle. It is a Raleigh and is likely identical to the Sports platform. Not an uncommon bike here in Canada, I see a couple a year on the street. It's a pedestrian club bike.

It's odd that the other major rebranded Raleigh line in Canada, Supercycle, also sold the same pseudo-club model with their name on it. Yet Raleigh did not...I wonder if it was Raleigh pushing the model or were these other resellers requesting this style of bike.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Nice Canadian Bike posted by Titlist on 9/18/2003 at 4:49:06 PM
It makes me wonder, if the term "English Racer" is so much of a misnomer. (?)

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Nice Canadian Bike posted by Titlist on 9/18/2003 at 5:02:21 PM
btw, living in Minnesota, this is one more excellent example, of why I am a bit inspired, and must check out the cycling, vintage bike situation in Canada some time.

Every year, here, they have an annual 3 speed cycling event. Are those very common?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Nice Canadian Bike posted by GMS on 9/18/2003 at 8:44:27 PM
Supercycle rebadged raleigh? interesting, most supercycles you buy today are CRAP, but this guy up the street from me has this old supercycle roadster bike........i may look closer at it now!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Nice Canadian Bike posted by Warren on 9/18/2003 at 11:27:35 PM
I keep an early 60's Supercycle roadster in the shed with a big front carrier...a great ride. 100% Raleigh.

AGE / VALUE:   Bianchi Legend + Schwinn Cyclometers posted by: Bryon Wright on 9/18/2003 at 9:08:10 AM
I recently saved a early to mid eighties Bianchi Legend with 022 Ishiwata tubing and a Suntour MK II drivetrain. It's brown in color, I'm just wondering how much I can sell it for.

pictures of it can be seen from a link a http://eastbaybike.homestead.com/forsale.html

I also picked up a couple of NOS Schwinn Cyclometers and would like to know the value of them. The part # on these is 02 815 and were assembled in March of 1974 (they are for 27" wheels only) Any help is greatly appreciated

MISC:   BSA shifter posted by: Jim on 9/18/2003 at 6:35:01 AM
I'm trying to piece together a mid 50's BSA from several bikes, I'm missing the shifter, is this one that I found on eBay correct for that time period?

AGE / VALUE:   what's this one? posted by: sam on 9/17/2003 at 8:18:07 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3626947025&category=2904 all the reg. stuff--no kin,not my...etc.----sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE: what's this one? posted by Warren on 9/17/2003 at 10:34:02 PM
A chinese Flying Pidgeon perhaps?

AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by: David Poston on 9/17/2003 at 6:20:55 PM

Wow! Here's a Rudge (Super Safety? Sports?) with a B33 saddle. I've never seen such a heavily sprung saddle on a 26" wheel, "sports"-type bike.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/17/2003 at 9:49:35 PM
'tis a Rudge Super Safety a.k.a. Raleigh Dawn. Not the stock saddle for sure, but looks nice.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by Dick in FL on 9/18/2003 at 5:08:01 AM
Clarification requested! I have been operating under the assumption that the term "Dawn" in a model name implied rod brakes. Is this a good inference?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/18/2003 at 2:33:12 PM
Essentially yes. The "Dawn" or "Super Safety" was the name used on Raleigh and Rudge low bracket (i.e. the "Sports" type frames with rear drop-outs and brazed on back stays) which had rod brakes and Westwood 26" x 1 1/4" rims (pre-war) and Westrick 26" x 1 1/4" rims (post-war). These were the backbone of the line in England, not at all common in the USA, and I think just about the most versatile machine ever made by Raleigh. Just as tough as a DL-1 but a lot easier to ride in all traffic conditions. Plus the easy to maintain and much better looking rod brakes too!

The Dawn came in "roadster" models (with enclosed gearcase instead of chainguard or, pre-war, no guard at all) and there were also "superbe" or "de luxe" models with chaincases, full dynohub gears, d.b.u/f.s.u. lighting, the "works". Ditto for Humber and Triumph. There were also "all weather" Dawns pre-war with all-black finish.

Just a great machine... we talk so much about DL-1s here, but in England, Dawns outnumber DL-1s ten to one. It's the essential English roadster.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 9:59:50 PM
More please on Dawns...

P.C., did you mean to say "Westwood 26 x 1 3/8" instead of "Westwood 26 x 1 1/4"? You rarely make typographical errors, but I had to be clear on this.

Now, why did they change from Westwoods to Westricks?

I agree that Raleigh Dawns / Rudge Super Safeties were great machines that I wish we saw more of in the U.S. Simple, easy-to-maintain rod brakes (I'm starting to prefer them over cable types) and a frame suited for in-city riding.

Now, if you ever decide to rid yourself of your Rudge '49 Super Safety to make room for more club bikes, please keep me in mind...I'll have to get used to a 23" frame, but I suppose I can manage.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge on e-bay posted by David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 10:06:41 PM
Hey, I just thought of something!

I've got this '52 Raleigh Sports (with enclosed gearcase, even, though it's in rough shape) "parts bike" sitting around...Would it be possible to add new 26" Westricks, new handlebars, and rod brakes? Convert it into something of a Raleigh Dawn?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Rudge on e-bay posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/18/2003 at 10:39:58 PM
See David, I am Club bike crazy...!! I did MEAN to write 26" x 1 3/8" of course not 1/4"!

Nope, I'd never sell my Rudge '49 "Super Safety"; she's my first classic British bike and you.. yes you ... were the one who alerted me to her! I am seriously considering selling my '48 Raleigh "Dawn" however...

Now... you can't very well convert a "Sports" frame to a "Dawn" for the simple reason the essential bottom bracket bosing for the rear rod brake fulcrum is missing.

Raleigh Pattern or "Westricks" were adopted after the war for the simple expendiency that it was cheaper to have a rim that could be used for any 26" Raleigh roadster, rod or caliper brake. But there must have been a transition period... my '48 Dawn had a Westwood front wheel and a Westrick rear wheel!! Then again she also has a rare pre-war handlebar SA trigger. She was either built on a Friday at 4.46 pm or they were scrambling for parts!

If you want a "Dawn", just get one on eBay UK... there are some wonderful examples going for a song. A lot cheaper than some boring '65 "Sports" for $565!! And a lot more character. My Rudge is the sweetest running little mount in the world.

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   Park cotter tool posted by: David Poston on 9/17/2003 at 5:57:46 PM
Hey Chris,

Another one DID pop up.


Does this one look in better shape?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park cotter tool posted by Chris on 9/18/2003 at 10:42:49 PM
This looks like an earlier one. I don't like the look of that screw thing.

It's up to you. I would still wait.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park cotter tool posted by David on 9/19/2003 at 10:43:18 AM
This one looks fine to me. Seller claims the threading is all good and there's no mushrooming. See if you can get it for 30-40. I think I paid close to $50 for mine and all thoughts of "I coulda got it cheaper" vanished when I started using it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park cotter tool posted by Chris on 9/19/2003 at 9:11:28 PM
Should be probably ok.
Yes. The latest ones had thicker screws but I am probably splitting hairs here.

AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by: sam on 9/17/2003 at 1:10:23 AM
Check this site http://www.classictransfers.co.uk/British___American_Transfers/british___american_transfers.html

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by David Poston on 9/17/2003 at 6:29:10 PM
I think several of us have ordered from here before. The only thing is--they seem to have coach lining transfers. Lloyd's seems to have a bigger selection, but they never answer e-mail.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by Chris on 9/18/2003 at 12:20:25 AM
It is a stake in the heart to hear that they do not answer e- mail.

How I would LOVE to be part of that company.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: decals posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/18/2003 at 1:39:34 AM
Or answer the 'phone. I sent them 50 plus quid by cheque the other week for transfers and just hope they actually are still in "business".

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: decals posted by David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 2:35:58 AM
I meant to say in the above post that Classic Transfers does NOT offer coach lining transfers to my knowledge, unfortunately.


Another place which doesn't seem to respond to e-mail (haven't tried phoning any of these places in the UK so far) is "Dial Patterns." I'm really after those repro roadster grips, style #18. If I have to place a bulk order, I will, but I want 'em, bad!

What happened to our grips, etc. enterprise?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: decals posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/18/2003 at 2:52:56 AM
"Our"?? I'll remember that when I get the £300 bill for making the mould!!! Anyway, I've found another British company that can and is willing to make duplicates of the grey "torpedo" type Raleigh grips c. 1948-66 in rubber. Best quality. Once I get the sample to them, they will advise the cost. It's not going to be cheap. But it can be done.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: decals posted by David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 10:05:12 PM
Hey, I just thought of something!

I've got this '52 Raleigh Sports (with enclosed gearcase, even, though it's in rough shape) "parts bike" sitting around...Would it be possible to add new 26" Westricks, new handlebars, and rod brakes? Convert it into something of a Raleigh Dawn?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: decals posted by David Poston on 9/18/2003 at 10:06:19 PM
Oops!! Posted in the wrong thread. I'll try again above.


AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 28 inch wheel Tourist D.L.1. gear shift cable problem solved! posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 9/17/2003 at 12:35:44 AM
Well, it sure took me awhile to figure this out.

I have gone mad looking for this cable in years past. One mechanic pal of mine did not figure it out even. I went to making this and still will but this is a short cut and it solves the problem of not being able to find replacement Sturmey- Archer cable that is long enough for the 28 inch wheel rod brake bikes.

I have been hoarding this cable for years now. Every new town I would go into the bike shop and buy cables and tires.

You now can aviod all this andf go into the regular bike shop and you buy derailer cable that has the one or two ends that are leaded. You snip off and or form a small part of the lead end. You do not take it all off but you trim away the edges and you will now feed the cable in in a different way as one usually does replace cable in the Sturmey- Archer or other similar type shifter 3 or 4, 5 it does not matter.

You pull the leaver back as far as it will go and you want to feed the small leaded part into the part where it rests and feed the cable backwards as long as it goes in then you pull it all the way through and then feed the cable back out the part where the leaded end would go in like normally. There will be a loop but you pull it back and then you turn the loop and snug it home.

You are now holding nthe shifter with a mile of new, modern clear plasitc coated cable.

No more problem with length. We used to really have a problem in finding it. There are two sizes of replacement cable out there. One for the 26 inch wheel Sports/ Superbes bikes and another for the 28 inch wheel Raleigh Tourist/ Royal Roadster D.L.1. type bikes.

Problem solved!
You will still have to use the adjustable piece on the end but you can do a trick that Sam Lingo here and myself have done. That re-explained tomorrow!

Hopefully Sam will post along with me and the two of us will explain.

Save all your parts, don't throw anything out. They are going nuts looking for white ribbed cable!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 28 inch wheel Tourist D.L.1. gear shift cable problem solved! posted by sam on 9/17/2003 at 2:29:39 AM
That new plasitc coated cable is the best.Makes the hole shifter work better,less drag.If looks don't matter(not for a resto),I like new(black) casing too.I've used Warrens trick of crimping a small brass sleave on the bare end.I think they make a tool for this but as of yet I haven't located one.---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 28 inch wheel Tourist D.L.1. gear shift cable problem solved! posted by Chris on 9/18/2003 at 12:33:38 AM
Take the cable into the hobby shop, hardware store whatever. Look for brass tube that is just large enough to go over the cable. You want to crimp it in about 3 places in alternating fashion. Like they did it originally.

It is funny, I have done this sucessfully without a special tool but it is difficult.
Sam and I are both looking at the same time. I will go to tool world and really chadse this and when I do find this tool I'll tell everybody.
Custom cables!
I may have to make a tool. That really cannot be that hard. Difficult, but not impossible.

So everybody, save your original cables with the barrel housing.
Raleigh Chopper cables will be next!
Back in the day, replacement cables for a 28 inch wheel bike was practically non- existent.
It was not easy!
28 inch tubes were impossible they got to using a 27 inch tube and stretching it.
Another nightmare!

Now, thanks to the trend towards the 700 C tires, tubes for the Raleigh 28 inch wheel bikes are again available.
I spoke with the guy who invented the new 700 c tires. The dude who got it re- born.

A the risk of stirring up compettition for myself I want to tell everybody here about Sam Lingo's tires that he is able to get.

Take it from me and I have no other reason to want to hype this except for the good of this group.
These tires (and now a set if rims) are really worth it. You should ask him to sell you a set.
The quality is very good, prices are right. I have yearned for these type of tires for our bikes.
Thank heavens for Sam, every blue moon a person like him pops up and something like this becomes available.
If you need tires, ask Sam to sell you a set. He may not have it but he may be able to get it.
I have a 28 inch wheel studded tire on my D.L.1. Raleigh and it is awesome. I never knew that this existed!
Don't make this a .... wish I got some of those type deal.

AGE / VALUE:   dawes racer posted by: jay on 9/16/2003 at 4:16:09 PM
Hello there, i'm trying to find out some information on a bike i've just bought. Its in a ramshackle state so any info would be appreciated. It is a 60's dawes racer, with a sturmey 4 speed hub plus 2 cogs on the back (making it 8 speed) frame number hs2106. Anyone know anything? cheers, jay

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Unique Rod Brakes & S chainring posted by: Tom on 9/16/2003 at 8:42:32 AM
I saw this on Ebay UK. It has very interesting rod brakees. I have not seen these before. Too bad it is not a mens frame. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2192233228&category=420&rd=1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Unique Rod Brakes & S chainring posted by Titlist on 9/16/2003 at 11:12:05 AM
very nice; I spoke to one UK vendor about postage concerning another item; amount seemed a bit exorbitant. However, if one can afford it, and an item like this, it would seem worth it.

in real terms, he spoke of a little over $200 to send over a bicycle by air. This amount came down quite a bit from an earlier figure that was quite a bit more. Of course, both of us, may have been virtual amateurs in this matter. It did make me shy away from bidding on the item.

AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by: Chris on 9/15/2003 at 8:06:59 PM
Beware the thin 26 X 1 3/8 tires!

I knew better than to do this, too.
The shop had these in stock, it 's al they had. They are put out my Specialized and a few other companies.
It is a basic 26 X 1 3/8 tire that is EA-3 British size and it does fit the Raleigh type rim. Only the tire is thinner and not as balloonish and so you get a harsher ride.
In probably have 4 sets of these too!
These thin tires, really don't work out so well.
Especially for the Raleigh Sports and Superbes with the Raleigh pattern rim (Westrick type)
You'll ruin the rim with those thin tires on it. You need the more balloonish ones.
Having problems finding tires?
Go to Sheldon's site at
Sheldonbrown.com and go to the Harris cycles site and find what he has and buy from him.
It beats buying the wrong tire like I have and Sheldon knows his stuff!

So remember that there are many brands and patterns and styles all within the same size.

In have a whole store room filled with just tires and spare wheels. I have a thing for bike tires it seems, trying to collect the valuable stuff and instead winding up with a hodge- podge of all sorts of stuff. Not as many rare or valuable pieces as I would like but I'm doing ok there.
I never want to get ahold of a bike and not have an original tire or set of tires so I grab everything that is a bargain or just when the time presents itself. Actually, both.
I have:
Polish, American, Dutch, Belgium made tires, Russian tires, French and British Michelin. Dunlops, Kenda, Irc,

Oh, the journey-ing into far away places and snooping into the old shops and seeing all those 28 X 1 1/2 tires and some with the red stripes.
Whitewalls, blackwalls, gumwalls, old and new.
Spanish Michelins! Yee-gods! The balloon style 28 X 1 1/2 Veith red rubber tires are my favorites!
The mechanic looks up at me and I'm holding up this or that and I ask what it went on and to my amazement, the guy has 'se answers to my crazy question.
The fellow will buy up every tire on the table at the swap meet and get a bargain so I drive out there before the meet starts and head it off at the pass. I wedge myself past the car and we head into the cold storage cupboard and see the 1950-1970's tires. I brought them all back.

Looking at e- bay and trying to get an understanding of Musclebike tires and what folks pay for them. I have spent afternoons looking at so many wheels and tires that I see bicycle wheels everyplace in my dreams after I have gotten back from looking thru the place.

The blue Goodyear tire on e- bay the one that went to $200.00 is ever so slightly a different kind. Rats!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by Titlist on 9/16/2003 at 10:53:33 AM
for tires, I have discovered this website, oldroads, has a very large selection.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by sam on 9/16/2003 at 1:40:42 PM
Chris,if anyone needs them I have one set of studded(black wall)tyres in 26"x1&3/8" and a set of new 26"x1&3/8" rod brake rims.Compleat set Tyres&Rims--$60 + shippin---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by GMS on 9/16/2003 at 1:43:12 PM
Finding the right tires is hard, but you dont know real pain till you are looking for a 26 X1 3/8 rim and cant find one! I had to put a 27 under my roaster till i find one, sure it may sound fine, it fits, but now my fender wont :(

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by JC on 9/17/2003 at 7:20:28 PM
I've bought 26 x 1 3/8 for my Raleigh Sports, 26 x 1 3/8 S-6 for my Schwinn Breeze, and 28" for my twin DL1's here at oldroads. They all fit. (Probably 'cause that's their business, stocking parts for these old steeds)

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tire aggrivation! 26 X 1 3/8's bike tire madness in general posted by Mike in TX on 9/18/2003 at 6:02:20 PM
For a rider, Conti TopTouring 2000. Black, balloonish, very round, smooth-riding and tough. Easy to obtain and easy to mount. One set I have says made in Thailand, another in India, but these ain't no Kenda/Summit/Cheng Shin/etc. Just my $0.02.

AGE / VALUE:   Park Cotter Pin Press posted by: Paul on 9/15/2003 at 1:15:20 PM
There is a Park Cotter Pin Press on eBay but the seller doesn't know what it is for. The title is "Bicycle Tool Park L083 Screw Press Chain Tool", #3626940130.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park Cotter Pin Press posted by David Poston on 9/15/2003 at 5:23:21 PM

Does it look to be in good shape? There appears to be a little bend at the head of the screw.

I've missed two of these auctions already; I'm not prepared to lose this one this time. I'm gonna fight this one out to the bitter end.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park Cotter Pin Press posted by Ric Sona on 9/15/2003 at 5:37:08 PM
Go check out the guy's other auction.







there's lots more, just click on sellers other auctions..
wo la la.....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park Cotter Pin Press posted by David on 9/15/2003 at 10:40:24 PM
It does look like the end of the screw is damaged. It should be cylindrical on the outside and slightly hollowed. I suspect someone tightened it down on something flat. But... I think it would work fine anyway. Grind off the mushroomed part.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Park Cotter Pin Press posted by Chris on 9/16/2003 at 12:36:50 AM
Step away from this one. The tool is not worth it. Not this one. The screw thingie will 'walk' and cause you trouble.

Yes, I have ruined a Park tool before so I see what's going on here.
Another one will pop up.

AGE / VALUE:   BCA FOLDING BICYCLE BCAMERICA posted by: JUNIOR on 9/14/2003 at 11:17:56 PM

AGE / VALUE:   Way cool little light! posted by: Chris on 9/14/2003 at 8:13:12 PM
Neat little light! I love that finish and that big, beautiful red lens!

This is N.O.S. in the packaging!
If this were mine it would be in the glass case under a sign that said: Not for sale!
I'm sorry but I love these!
But this is not mine and whomever wins the auction will get to enjoy it next!
It could be you!
E- bay item # 2192196009 Exide
Not my auction, no relation to seller and I would have said: "Dude, this is a keeper!"

Why can't I find these in the old shops for $1.00? Hmmmm?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Way cool little light! posted by Ed on 9/15/2003 at 3:59:29 PM
I agree Chris the item is way cool, however it may only be suited for display in a glass case. I would contact the seller if I planned to bid and inquire about the availability of a battery.I bought a Pifco of similar design a few years ago and paid somewhat more then five dollars for it . It arrived missing the spring which should go in the bottom of the tube to keep tension on the battery,however I was able to substitude a wad of aluminum foil and got the light to work with a D cell battery.The tube on the Exide light appears to be too short for a D cell,a C cell might work though. Just something to consider if you plan to bid on it and use it on a bike.