This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Those bloody cotter tools posted by: David Poston on 9/24/2003 at 2:45:06 AM
I have now lost my THIRD auction for a Park cotter pin press on e-bay. This time, it sold for $103.50. Next time, I'll have to bid some crazy number like $150 or $200 to ensure that I win. The bidding was tough, let me tell you. These tools are rare and valuable as heck, and everyone seems to know it.

If anyone has one of these tools and wants to sell, please let me know.


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Those bloody cotter tools posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/24/2003 at 3:37:04 AM
Bloody indeed. Although I must confess David I have owned and ridden British bicycles since I was 7 and never had a Park cotter press. Never heard of them until last year. I guess I am odd, I just don't have the occasion to squeeze out cotter pins or the urge to do so. When I have the necessity to do so, I just take the ailing machine to the bike shop. Then again I am fortunate to have a good and sympathetic one just blocks away. But good luck in your quest. Me, I'd rather spend that money on a classic British bike or accessory. Or indeed a 1937 BSA catalogue that sold on eBay the other day for $107 (!)

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Those bloody cotter tools posted by Dick in FL on 9/24/2003 at 3:42:16 AM
Please don't bid $150 as a brute force strategy. If you examine the bid history of this auction, you will see that the three highest bidders were 'snipers'. The third place guy went in with what I consider a sane and reasonable bid. The two top bidders were employing a strategy known as 'bidding the bomb'. The rationale for it goes like this: I like this offering and I am certainly agreeable to paying one increment more than what some other knowledgeable bidder offers. I'll just go in with a nice high proxy that will obliterate the riff-raff. The comeuppance of this strategy occurs when the auction attracts a second such bidder with this same strategy in which case both proxies battle it out without human control.

(Were you the sane guy?)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Those bloody cotter tools posted by alonzo on 9/24/2003 at 5:03:59 AM
After talking to my local cycle mechanics, I gave up on the Park tool and the older Var tool. (They seemed inclined to sell the Var tool, since they don't use it. Looks more like a medieval torture device.) The mechanics told me they use a good old persuader, ie. hammer.

Meanwhile, I've had good luck simply using my 4-inch bench vise to squeeze the buggers out. Judicious use of a pair of sockets, too. One big enough to accept the fat end of the cotter, and the other smaller enough not to mess up the cotter pin threads. Five bikes so far.

Now, what should I do with that $103 I've saved...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin removal tool posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 9/24/2003 at 4:33:12 PM
My god, if you can wrest away that Var tool do it. Whatever it takes! Get them drunk and willing to take your money,Then, grab that marvelous piece of machinery and run, run, run.

They waved it at me and I whinned like a puppy and then they finally sold me the bloody thing! I drove home with it on the car seat all the time exclaiming I have a var tool, the cotter pin tool!
Folks say: Who sold you that?
The var tools are great and hard to get. I have a pin spanner I am going thru heck trying to find replacement pins for it.

Another pal of mine in the business commented:
"All they want you to be able to get here is Park!"

I remember the tv jingle:
"What would you do for a Klondike bar?"

Oh, the VAR tool, this brings up some memories!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Those bloody cotter tools posted by Frank in Pullman on 9/25/2003 at 5:38:56 AM
David, I think you should hang in there. I bought one of these on ebay about 9-12 months ago and it wasn't so much - about $30 as I recall. Certainly nowhere near $100.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin removal t posted by Chris on 9/25/2003 at 6:27:10 PM
So my reasoning back then for buying four of the Park cotter pin tools at cost, was sound.
I figured the Park tool would be discontinued and become difficult to find, and I was right.
This is what has happened too.
At the time, the supplier looked at me like I was nuts and asked:
Why do you want four of these?
They were new, cheap, no shipping and I suspected that it would be hard to find, that it would be discontinued by the Park knumbskulls too. Now it's an, hunt- for item,shipping, and all that bother.
Expensive now too.

Tools have always been a real pain in the tail.
The purpose of so many tools is lost and nobody knows what it did or how to use it and then the tools get thrown out unless I am there.
I pulled out tools of the dumpster and as I drove home with all this stuff jingling together the only thing I could make of it, the only reason was that the fellow was obviously nuts. Off the medication, not thinking right.
Or perfectly sane and just being an idiot on purpose to get to me.

I offered to buy some things and the guy was destroying it instead.
I have seen clocks, benches, tools, parts, the whole cabinets lifed up and destroyed or almost destroyed. Thrown out a day before I got there. I was commanded: Come get this stuff!
They had no love for the guy who was supposed to get it.
Lots of happy times but a bit of just plain crazyness and some bad situations too. Could not talk sense to them or get them to stop it. I was saying: Aw, don't do that! Come on! They looked right thru me.
The two brothers who routinely had hammer fights together.

"They're nuts today, come back tommorrow."
I remember the rainy Saturday afternoons in the shops listening to the swish of the rain in the streets. The sounds the Flourescent lights made. Getting to meet the various people that came thru the door.
"The lady is a nut, Chris. You help her!"
They were rude to this customer.
Turns out she was the real old school deal. A awesome person to meet and I did very, very well with what I bought from her. Meeting people like here and getting to see and buy what she had was the real reason to work there.
Contacts and leads.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin remova posted by David Poston on 9/26/2003 at 3:54:54 AM

Wait, you're stashing four of these? Sure you can't part with just ONE? Quick and easy cash. Do leave me one in your will, at least.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin removal t posted by Ralph on 9/26/2003 at 8:57:06 AM
Back in the day my shop had a VAR and a Park tool. I never used the Park tool because the VAR worked so much better. I still have th esame opinion today. I wouldn't even be interested in owning the Park. Fortunately I bought one of the VAR tools back in the day. It still works great today. I've never failed with the VAR. I always get to re-use the pins too. Unless they were damaged to begin with.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin remova posted by red on 9/26/2003 at 12:37:21 PM
Ok, here is the deal:
The non-profit bike shop I volunteer for has one of these park tools. I mentioned it as a resource for quick cash and the director went for it. The catch for you (David and/or others interested) is that even though it may be cheaper and less annoying than ebay, it will still be expensive; certainly more than the $30 someone mentioned above. As you can see from the e-mail I reprinted below, I suggested that we could get as much as $100. I will forward any reasonable offers on to the bike shop. If no one thinks the tool is worth it, we can always put it to use in the shop. And if we continue to use hammers instead, then I call first dibs on the non-inflated value price.
e-mail conversation below:
I think we can put that tool up for sale. Thanks for the info.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:01 AM
Subject: park tool

The value of a park tool cotter remover... could you use $100 +? Old roads' web site contains a lot of adds, but the content of the discussion is in there towards the bottom. I think hammers always work well for cotters, but for collectors, there is a reason for using this tool. Anyway, it's not much money, but someone is willing to pay it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin rem posted by Chris on 9/26/2003 at 5:00:10 PM
I do not part with tools as my bike crazyness is real bad in the tool section. Sorry.
I would think you should be able to find one for 40 or so if you keep hunting but perhaps this has become a real hard to find thing to get ahold of. It kinda looks like that.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter pin posted by Chris on 9/26/2003 at 5:03:05 PM
Hang in there. It'll turn up.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: They'll  have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. Var cotter p posted by Frank in Pullman on 9/28/2003 at 6:16:25 AM
I checked my records and found the following: I bought the Park cotter tool in April on ebay for $31.51 including shipping. Maybe it was a fluke! Anyway, there may not be that many of these out there, but on the other hand they last forever, and not many people want them!

AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by: Jon T. on 9/23/2003 at 11:37:58 AM
Back in 1982 my family was spending the summer in Holland, a country where Bicycles are a part of ones daily life, people all dressed for work peddling away on their bikes. One day my brother and I were walking across a park and he tripped on a peddle sticking ut of the ground, so of course we dug up what turned out to be a 1950's ladies Roadster in amazingly good condition for a bike that came out of the ground! We figure it had been stolen and hidden, It's name was Royal Enfield of England. My brother cleaned it, bought new tires (28"), and a shift cable. At summers end decided to keep this machine, so it was crated and shipped to Santa Cruz California where it's ridden from time to time to this day. Question; Were Royal Enfields ever sold in the USA, I've never seen of or heard of another when I inquire at bike shops, ect. ? Any other info on this brand ?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/23/2003 at 9:38:36 PM
Good question! And to my knowledge, Royal Enfield was the largest of the British makes not to export their line to America. Indeed, I don't think they were a big export oriented firm overall. They made superb machines but the name has zero recognition it seems outside of Britain. Not that it's a perfect barometer, but I've never seen a Royal Enfield catalogue or cycle offered on eBay USA and infrequently on eBay UK. So what you "dug up" quite literally is a rare one.. for here!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Patrick Murphy on 9/24/2003 at 1:52:26 AM
I believe Royal Enfield is still in business today, but moved operations (lock, stock, and barrell) to Mandras, India years ago. They also made, and perhaps still do make, small motorcycles. I noticed in news footage of Afganistan during the U.S. bombing that many Afgani's rode the same 3-spd bikes with rod brakes and rear-mounted motorcycle-style kickstands and I believe these are Royal Enfields. They're probably only sold these days in the Middle East and South Asia.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by paul viner on 9/24/2003 at 9:31:42 AM
in india they are called the ENFIELD,not the ROYAL ENFIELD,apparently it was part of the deal when they bought the factory.i have on occasion bought parts from said company and they seem to be quite well made.what i have found to be the problem with indian/asian companies is the quality of there raw materials.up until a few yaers ago in australia you would buy a bottle of coca cola and it would have a aluminium top,as part of our recycling culture here you could get quite good money for them,so i would visit the large scrap metal merchantsand see these huge metre square cubes of compressed bottle tops.upon enquiring where they went to i was informed that they went to india to make car engine blocks.actual composition of raw material 70%plastic,30% ALUMINIUM.Goes to show its all about what you start with paul

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Frank in Pullman on 9/25/2003 at 5:29:37 AM
I have often admired the "Enfield India" motorcycles on my visits to India. They have a beautiful vintage look with a nice logo. The engines are large by Indian standards, maybe 350 cc, and they have a nice throaty sound. Quite groovy, in my opinion.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Mark R. on 9/25/2003 at 6:06:26 PM
Nope! They are called Royal Enfield, and you can buy 'um right here in the good ol' USA. 350, and 500 cc Bullets, They are too cool! Everyone who owns a Brit bicycle will want one. Look them up on the internet, and I bet one or two of you buy one:-)

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Mark R. on 9/25/2003 at 6:09:28 PM
Oh, and they are inexpensive! $3995 You can find them used for under $2000. They are way better made than the Indian bicycles I often bitch about. Very nice indeed. Look absolutly smashing! Very retro. You'll love 'em!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Chris on 9/25/2003 at 6:30:42 PM
We have drifted off the topic because the motorcycles are all that is left.
What happened to the bicycle stuff? Tooling, jigs, patterns and dies?
Blueprints, paint formulas? Stuff like that?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by paul v on 9/26/2003 at 8:27:19 AM
mark your right on the ball when it comes to the u.s.a,but in the land of oz because of our ridiculous links with the monarchy of britain they relabel everything that we buy.even burger king here is called hungry jacks,go figure.now back to the bikes,i have it direct from the horses mouth that when MALVERN STAR, a very famous brand here in austrlia,started making bikes of the 70s 80s era all of the old tooling was either sent to the scrapyard or cut up. reason was they didnt want anybody else to have it.dont you just feel a little jealous when you here of clubs or associations like the studebaker guys buying all the tooling,presses and jigs to keep there cars going.by the way can you buy rims for a RALEIGH SPORTS 1973 model in the states?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   If bikes could talk posted by Chris on 9/26/2003 at 5:04:46 PM
Exactly. God Bless the Studebaker guys. Still they would just say perhaps that they were just lucky.

MISC:   Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by: Joe on 9/23/2003 at 9:01:00 AM
I have a curious looking S/A hub which I found on an old wheel at the scrapyard yesterday, it's a S/A SW 1957 and it has 2 indicator chains, one on each side. I am not familiar with this hub at all and was wondering if anyone here may have some info. I went to Sheldon Brown's site, and found the S/A hub page, but no info on how they looked or worked. I didn't realize that an SW used 2 indicator chains?
Along with this wheel I found several others with SW and other S/A hubs that someone tossed, (imagine, just throwing away good parts!) the others have no indicator chains installed and one won't even screw into the left side of the other SW hubs. All of these hubs look quite clean and rust free and don't look badly worn or abused. I do see that they use an odd three pronged driver and are quite different from an AW but I don't understand the second indicator on a 3 speed, or is there some conversion or trick that I haven't hear of for these?
In all the find included 4 SW hubs, 2 S5 hubs, 3 AW hubs, 1 AW Alloy hub, 1 FW, 1 TCW, and Brampton hub partially disassembled duct taped to a bare rim. All but 2 of the rims were totally trashed. All of the hubs look clean and untouched, but the rims were all either missing spokes, bent, or rusted. I tried to loosen the bearing retainer on the odd SW but the spokes gave way (many missing and rusted), I'll need to find a way to secure the hub itself to disassemble it. Does anyone make a spanner wrench to fit the S/A outer bearing race? I don't want to mar the housing in any way or mark up the bearing retainer with a punch. Not knowing where they have been or their condition I want to open them up and give them a good cleaning and relube along with some fresh bearings. Also, does anyone have a pic of what the left side belcrank and pushrod looks like on an S5 hub?
I also understand from reading Sheldon's S/A page that the SW had problems, but it didn't say what type of problems?

   RE:MISC:   Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/23/2003 at 2:10:39 PM
What a haul! For more info go to: WWW.Hadland.net. There Mr. Hadland has a complete 1956 Sturmey Archer Manual on his website for you to down-load to your heart's content--best information you'll ever get, for free!. In regards to the SW, I know there were a few guys on this site who collect them and have more info on them.
I had an S3C hub that I wanted to take apart but it wasn't laced to a rim so I tried this trick: Bore a 21/2"hole into a piece of 1x4 or 2 x4. You can do this with a hole saw attachment(the kind for making holes in doors for locksets). Cut the 2x4 in half and fit the halves around the hub. Pound 1" finishing nails in every second spoke hole, leaving the nail tops sticking out for easy removal. Now the hub is secure in the wood, which you can mount in a vice. There are special spanners to remove the lock ring but they are rare and expensive. If you don't want to use a punch and hammer, try a hose clamp around the ring, and then pound on the clamp.

   RE:MISC: Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Martin H on 9/23/2003 at 3:06:40 PM
The best source for SW info is:
with a tilde before bdhayes.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Joe on 9/24/2003 at 12:13:17 PM
Thanks for the tips, the 2x4 clamp did the trick with no damage. I made one for both the AW and the SW hubs. I guess I will try to locate a good spanner to fit the bearing retainers, I use a 4 wheel drive hub socket to remove one, but it fit loose. (I think it fits a Ford Bronco II), I had to thin down the two tabs on the socket first. I was considering going to the steel mill and getting a piece of tubing the same diameter as the bearing retainer and cutting out all but two tabs on one end and welding a bar through it for a handle. It might be overkill but it will allow it to work on hubs still in the wheel as well with out spoke interference. It will only be one more custom fabricated tool for the tool box.
Another question though, are any parts available at all for a SW hub? How rare are these hubs and parts?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/24/2003 at 2:47:49 PM
Hey, if you can make one ring removal tool, couldja make a couple more? As you can tell, I love to fool around with hubs, especially S/A hubs, but I'm limited with tools. All I've got is a cheap 3'' vice, a Dremel, and a beat up 3/8"drill. The drill mounted in a vice with the trigger scotch-taped "on" doubles as a metal lathe. I've been known to make springs for 4 spd triggers on man-hole covers, make complete gear cables with normal 10 spd cable and 2 1"pieces of brass tubing, and occasionaly bake a part or two in my home oven. If I had access to "real"metal working tools....

   RE:MISC: Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Martin H on 9/24/2003 at 8:19:13 PM
Hi Joe, I have a few SW hubs around and one is currently in use on my commuter bike. It works quite well. These hubs were made for only a few years but many were made. So I cannot say how 'rare' they really are. When they first appeared on ebay they went for high prices. For example my records show $78 and $138 for two different auctions at the end of 2001. They still show up on ebay and the final prices are much lower. I have been gathering a few hubs to use as spares, but there are some NOS parts kicking around. I have some NOS parts so if you need anything specific I might be able tp help.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Info on S/A FW hubs? posted by Joe on 9/28/2003 at 7:23:35 AM
Edward, I am going to work on a more durable and easier to use tool to open these hubs. The first one I made is too soft, the tabs give out after a few stubborn hubs. It is also hard to keep centered with a bar for a handle, I was thinking of either making it with a 1/2" socket on top so it can be used with an impact gun, and/or with some sort of self aligning hole to go over the axle with a nut to prevent it from jumping off, mainly for the really stubborn ones. But I don't think I would want to use the impact gun to tighten the ring. I also want to make a clamp out of either nylon or aluminium with a rubber surface. The wood one works, but as soon as it does slip a little, the nails for dowels either shear or bend over. I also want to make a socket to remove the earlier left side bearing cups as well. On the SW hubs I was able to match up a 4x4 hub socket to fit, but it's a little loose. If I get the time, and come up with a good solution, I'll repost then. It will be a while, I am short on spare time right now.

MISC:   Guys at the thrift store think I'm nuts posted by: Warren on 9/22/2003 at 10:17:53 PM
Every morning they line up for the 10 am opening at the AS-IS depot of the central thrift store. Today, I join the queue, run in and see two bikes which I nab. One is a decent all chrome, cica 1990 mtn bike with Suntour components for $45 and the other is a $25, butt-ugly, neon orange respray, womens CCM sports with a torn saddle and inverted road bars. Very sad looking. The regulars are looking at the mudsucker wishing they saw it first. I look closely at both bikes, leave the offroader alone and go pay for the crappy 3 speed. Two guys jump for the other bike.

Of course they don't see what I see. The sports bike has clean EA1 rims, a Union front hub and a 56 AW on the rear. A decent (working) SA trigger with the window. The bonus is the pristine 26 X 1 1/4 Michelin ZigZag blackwalls... great tires and difficult to find now. I'd pay $20 a tire for these. The Marsh road bars have good chrome and the 6 1/2 inch cottered cranks are in great shape as well. Add on a good stem, bottom bracket, quality steel headset, SA metal pulley, chrome clips and cable stops, brake levers and you've got great value for you money. The frame is toast.

I'll have it torn down by 10 pm, after the kids go to bed. A nice glass of tawny port beside me. How can you have more fun for $25?

   RE:MISC:   Guys at the thrift store think I'm nuts posted by Chris on 9/23/2003 at 10:46:12 PM
Metal cable stops. I love them. I collect them. I have a glass jar and every so often, plink! I add another one.
Lots of junky bikes that are past the point have these. I get out my cutters and snip off the rusted nut and bolt and add another one of these the the jar.
Put them into the wire wheel and they shine like they were just chromed!
The plastic ones break and that's no fun.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Jasper on 9/22/2003 at 7:18:13 PM
I bought a very odd bicycle the other day at the flea market for $5 It is a Raleigh with a really odd frame that is made so that the tubes cross one another, just behind where the three speed lever is on the top tube. Kind of like an X. It is a beautiful english green with gold pin stripes. The chain guard goes all the way around the chain and sprockets, and says "The Royal Raleigh". On the top tube it say "To his Royal Magesty King Abdul from GeorgeIII"(who ever the Hell that is)It has the craziest brakes you've ever seen, there are no cables, but instead there are these bloody kooky lookin' sort of metal rods with a sort of U shaped thing with brake pads screwed to it! MAN WHAT A RIG! It even "had" a gigantic leather seat with springs in the back and FRONT! The guy must have thought it made it look like a motorcycle or something:-) I took that piece of junk off and threw it in the trash. I put a nice gel seat on it.
I thought that because the frame looked kinda like a girls bike that it might make it a good jumper, and since it was so cheap, I gave it to me kid brother who is using it as a curb jumper. You should see how flimsy that thing actually turned out to be after a couple of hundred curbs!
Anyway, I thought youse guys would like my good luck.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Jasper again on 9/22/2003 at 7:49:46 PM
Ha! My brother put a small wheel on the front so that the chain guard drags on the ground! He says it is his "sled"
It really is kinda cool!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Pifco Light. on 9/22/2003 at 9:19:12 PM
And your reason for claiming sanity is??????????
If only you had any talent, you could be a comedienne..

but you havent, so you`ll stay an asshole all your life.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Jasper on 9/22/2003 at 10:02:25 PM
Well actually it was meant as comedic-relief, however it is a story that was based on something that actually happened. I will NEVER do it again, and hopefully I'll avoid being an "asshole" too much longer(geeezz). How did you know I was a woman?

   is it for sale:    posted by ron on 9/23/2003 at 11:42:05 AM
is the bike for sale, if so e-mail me.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/23/2003 at 9:09:07 PM
Now, boys and girls, let's all get along now.
Pifco, that wasn't a nice thing to say about Jasper. Of course, it was accurate, but not very nice.

Jasper, try your comic relief somewhere where it can be appreciated.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Jasper on 9/24/2003 at 11:56:39 AM
OK, but you guys KNOW girls have a different sense of humour! I'm sorry!!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Pifco Light. on 9/25/2003 at 9:34:44 PM
Seeing as you`r repentant, Ill apologise for my remark.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Edwardnin Vancouver on 9/26/2003 at 12:52:26 AM
Great. Nice to have you on board Jasper. Somebody better tell "Ron" that you don't really have a bike to sell. Of course we could also tell "Ron" that although his zipper is pulled up, his ambition is showing...

AGE / VALUE:   why can't i find it? posted by: rhiannon on 9/22/2003 at 3:04:07 AM
okay, so i found a bike at the dump. i paid less than $5 for it. i know its not worth anything, and its really rusty. but i just want to know more about it.
the make is "clarion" and its made in england.
does anyone know anything about clarion and what year it might be?
its a beautiful lookng bike and had a wonderful paint job.. pity it was rusty, i'll be re-painting it to ride it for the summer...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   why can't i find it? posted by Chris on 9/22/2003 at 5:26:55 PM
Go to e- bay. Take a look at a Raleigh bicycle. Type in Raleigh bicycle. Look at the headset. Is this like yours?
Perhaps your bike was made by Raleigh.

There were many makers and brands and even though I have been in this for years I do not recognize this name either.

AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by: Jeff Bikeguy on 9/21/2003 at 8:20:38 PM
OK, so I got up late this morning and didn't hit the flea market at sunrise like I like to do at this time of year. I hadn't found anything good there in over two years so it was no big deal. As I wandered through the rows of the usual stands full of junk, overpriced "antiques", beanie babies, NASCAR stuff, and baby clothes, I spotted a green bike with fenders and a rack. I went over to the corner stand and saw a real clean unmolested Phillips bike with a second one laying on it's side next to it. The standing bike had a 1951 dated dynohub with battery pack and chrome rear carrier and the one laying down had a 1954 AW, a Cadet speedo, and a Trehawk lightset. Both were small mens' frames (19 and 21") Other than some dust, flat tires, and a few scratches these bikes were near perfect. They must have been inside and covered up as there was no rust on anything! There was a lot of old white wax residue around the cable clamps and lugs so somebody took good care of them. As I looked these two bikes over I was just waiting for the seller to come over and tell me they were $500.00 each or something like that. But the guy came over and said they were $35 each or I could have the pair for $65. He said he didn't have room for them (He must have found them at a yard sale or auction yesterday for next to nothing.) He knew nothing about them but he did point out the nifty "Phillips" cutout on the chainwheels. As I squeezed one of the tires looking for cracks he came down to $60 for the pair and when I told him I wanted them both he came down to $50.
The bikes are the lower end Sports style models but everything is still tight, the tires hold air, they wheels are true, they roll nicely and the brakes and gears are still adjusted. It's nice to see that there is still some nice stuff out there waiting to be discovered.
The big question now is what to do with them...Should I make room for them and keep them for riders or should I take them to Trexlertown in two weeks to trade for something even better. Hmmmmm....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by Chris on 9/22/2003 at 4:48:09 PM
You should hold onto them, they are too nice to let go of.
Put them on e- bay and let us know about it so we all can watch what these go to.
I am very jealous of you. green with jealousy and envy.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by Chris on 9/22/2003 at 5:03:31 PM
I found a red Phillips this summer. Put it on the car rack and all during the vacation driving every so often I would check to see that it was still on the car rack and I was really happy to have found it. I had found a Phillips with the cool pedals and oil ports in the hubs.
When you get out and about, things happen.
Now it's an F.W. four, glimmering chrome, complete overhaul, new spindle and cups,all the cable casing and cables are new, original and clean.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by Jeff bikeguy on 9/22/2003 at 10:26:39 PM
I don't think I have the heart to put these on eBay. I also don't want to split up the pair. (They've probably been together in some climate controlled room for 50 years) guess I'll have to make some more room in the spare bedroom for em'. I'll get some pix of these soon for show and tell...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by GMS on 9/23/2003 at 1:18:50 PM
Chris you said you found an old RED Phillips? What model is it? I have a Nottingham, all the other bikes i have seen have been briminghams...do we have simular bikes?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by Chris on 9/23/2003 at 10:26:56 PM
The bike I have just says Phillips on it. It is Birmingham made, the hubs says 1955 on it.
Phillips headset and bottombracket parts too.
I put the bike in the vise and turned the handle and drove out the cotter pins and re-inserted them. These pins were able to be re-used. I was able to remove both bottombracket cups and re-install them.
Try that with a Raleigh! This is my reason for loving Phillips. That and also because the parts are easier to get. It is blood red, or oxblood or a deep/ dark candy red.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Somebody must have opened a time capsule posted by GMS on 9/24/2003 at 8:26:42 PM
There are before and after pics on this page of my bike, check it out, the bike is kinda customized, i couldn't find the EXACT parts to restore it, but the parts on it are still roadster parts still needs work to be complete, but now its rideable for the time being

AGE / VALUE:    I did it again (or) I seem to have this yellow ladies Scwinn Racer bike... posted by: Chris on 9/21/2003 at 4:16:09 PM
I guess the only thing I can say is that it was a pretty yellow colored bike with the original yellow seat.
Garage sale. it was cheap! I said: Sold!
The dude grinned. The old bike was in the way!

Then again, it was not so smart to get it because:
It is a Schwinn Racer. These are heavy. It was a three speed so I guess subconsciously, I got it for that. The trigger and all that. grey ribbed cable casing, can't get enough!
Yes, I guess I got it because it is a pretty yellow color with the yellow seat and yellow handlebar grips.

It's dirty, but will be nice when I get into that I'll be pulling it apart and spending hours on it to overhaul and replace bearings and bottombracket innards.
I hate these Schwinns. They are too heavy. Tires on these are a pain in the butt and I think they are too narrow.

So anyways, I'm all conflicted and unhappy with it and that ain't cool!
I did way better with the dishes I picked up. Except that I have too many dishes already.

So I have to be much more picky with the bikes in the future. Say no more often. I have to stop throwing myself at any old bike that comes along. Even if it is cheap and reasonable unless it is something I really want or if it has some real value and is worth fooling with.

I guess, I'll clean it and take a picture and offer it for 50.00 plus shipping. I'll rsist the urge to remove the parts and set it out at the kerb... I think I will.

I need to save myself for the Raleigh Sports bikes that I'll find in the future. A yellow ladies Raleigh Sports would be nice!
There was another bike but I said to myself No! and I made for the car. He yelled after me that he was dropping the price and with that I ran away!
E- mail me if you want this.
26 inch wheel, three speed, ladies Schwinn Racer. original complete and soon to be very clean.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    I did it again (or) I seem to have this yellow ladies Scwinn Racer bike... posted by Chris on 9/24/2003 at 4:38:56 PM
I could not bear to throw it out this morning. Can't bear to remove the parts off of it either.
I think I'm stuck with it.

FOR SALE:   for Minnesotians only posted by: red on 9/21/2003 at 1:58:43 PM
I need help getting rid of some bikes soon. His and Hers British made Huffy Sportsman bicycles (His = red and white, Hers = blue and white, together = red white and blue). Both bikes have S/A coasters, and are in working order except for tubes and tires. All 4 tires hold air long enough for a test ride and then some. These bikes need attention including lube, cleaning, and a bit of polishing on some areas of rusty chrome. They are cheep to a good home. I live in St. Paul, and I wont ship these this year (local delivery available). I’m encouraging Minnesotans (and Eastern WI) to make me an offer (the first local offer over $75 takes them both). I need to get rid of these bikes by the first snowfall.

   RE:FOR SALE:   for Minnesotians only posted by red on 9/23/2003 at 9:24:57 AM
correction: "Eastern WI" should have been "Western WI".

   RE:FOR SALE:   for Minnesotians only posted by red on 10/1/2003 at 12:13:25 PM

AGE / VALUE:   German/English 3-Speed posted by: Patrick Murphy on 9/21/2003 at 12:15:18 AM
Last week I picked up a "barn find" 3-speed bike (Sturmey-Archer AW) that's actually German. The headtube sticker sats "Sport 2000" and "Made in W. Germany". The downtube decals says "GX 2000" and the seattube sticker has a (I guess) German coat of arms and "Made in W. Germany" under it.

Has anybody here ever heard of this brand? It's quite unusual in that it has a TWO-PIECE cottered crank (the chainring side has no cotter pin or a hole for one). The quality of the frame is not as good as a Nottingham-built bike but seems better than a Huffy, and it has beautiful stainless-steel fenders. It also came with wide-whitewall Continental tires which are dry-rotted. The S-A hub indicates that it's a '72 model. I'm wondering if it's a department store house brand. Any info on this?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   German/English 3-Speed posted by Joe on 9/23/2003 at 8:03:45 AM
Sounds like an Executive bike I used to have, the S/A hub is not too uncommon on the German bikes back then. The Excecutive I had had the single cotter cranks, decal headbadge, aluminium fenders, (have seen a few with SS), touring style bars, twist grip shifter and wide whitewall Conti tires. The rims were similar looking to a Schwinn S-5, but with serated sides. They had the same style dropped center ridge as the S-5 rims. These bikes were sold in the Philadelphia area, I believe, by Kress, and Kresge 5 & 10 stores.
I had the bike for years as a kid, it wasn't as heavy duty as a Nottingham bike but like you said, much better than a Huffy. I have always fiured that they were made by Rixe in Germany, I've seen several Rixe's which looked identical.
I now have a "Burger" branded bike that is similar in setup but a little older, it also uses an S/A hub but has a normal crankset. The most interesting thing about this bike is the extreme laid back angle of the headtube and seat tube.
I've seen several German made bikes that kind of used the headtube as the lug itself, (the headtube and lug were one piece). Others I've seen have had oversized, and plain looking lugwork. Try going to eBay Germany and searching "Rixe" and see if any look familiar, occasionaly an older one pops up there. I have seen a few Executive bikes as well on eBay US also.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   German/English 3-Speed posted by Ron on 9/23/2003 at 11:24:08 PM
I have an AMF 3 speed that also had a "Sport 2000" decal, but it was made in Austria, most likely by Steyr-Daimler-Puch. Austria and Germany share a border and Puch may have a factory there as well. I also have a two-piece cottered crank and the hub is a Sturmey-Archer AW, 1972. Puch also made some bikes for Sears during this time frame, my stepdad has a similar Sears ten-speed tourist bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   German/English 3-Speed posted by Patrick Murphy on 9/24/2003 at 1:35:13 AM
Joe, thanks for the info! And yes, it does have the one-piece headtube lug exactly like you describe, and with a weld bead down the middle! It also has the serrated-side rims. I'm not planning on restoring this bike but I would like to "modernize" it with 700c rims and better brakes like I did to my Dunelt. I might even make it a fixed/freewheel SS conversion instead of the 3-spd, but I'm not sure if this bike is worth putting hundreds of dollars into this project

AGE / VALUE:   Rough value for old English 3 spd. posted by: Cliff McDuffee on 9/19/2003 at 9:21:24 PM
I have an old, 1954, Aberdale 3 spd. mens English bike. It has original paint in fair condition. Tire size is 26 x 1 3/8. Seat condition is pretty sad. There is some rust on the rims and handlebars. It does have a light but no generator. The tire pump is missing as well as the chain guard. The logo says "The Aberdale, Aberdale Cycle Co., London #18". There is also a sticker that says "Handbuilt by craftsmen of England". Another sticker says "Bonderized frame for rust resistance". "Featherweight" is also written on the frame.

I am just looking for a ballpark figure for value.

Thanks in advance for any help or information.


AGE / VALUE:   Origin of bike posted by: Joy on 9/19/2003 at 4:15:45 PM
I have a bike. I assume it's from the mid 60's. I was told to post in this area. I'm not sure where it comes from. It says Foremost. I was told they've made them recently? But, this one I have have since late 1970's and it was older then. It has a light switch for the front lights. It's a mid sized, red bike. Does anybody know anything about this bike?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Origin of bike posted by Ron on 9/19/2003 at 11:59:21 PM
I believe Foremost was a JC Penny brand name, so the bike was probably made by Huffy or Murray for them. There may be a better response in the Balloon/Middleweight discussion are.

AGE / VALUE:   1970 Sunbeam 3 speed posted by: mark on 9/19/2003 at 3:59:57 PM
I have a 1970 Sunbeam, black with gold pinstriping. It is in very good condition. No rust! Only a couple of slight dings. It appears the original owner bought it and never road it. Rides great! Does anyone have a bluebook value on it? Thanks for your help.

WANTED:   raleigh FRONT fender for 28' bike posted by: ron on 9/19/2003 at 11:52:28 AM
WANTED 60's or 70's front raleigh 28 inch fender black in color, any info will help.


AGE / VALUE:   New Brooks saddle bags coming in October? posted by: dash on 9/19/2003 at 12:01:26 AM
Upon searching for a proper bag for my dl1, I came upon this at Wallingford Bicycle Parts. Not much info there, and the folks at the shop are gone fishin' til next week. There is, however a picture of a pretty little new Brooks tool roll. Wondering, doubtfully, if the new bags will be all leather. Otherwise I might as well go for a Nelson Longflap. My B33 needs a big, strong, rich, aromatic companion to keep her company!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Brooks saddle bags coming in October? posted by dash on 9/19/2003 at 12:13:13 AM
a link would help wouldn't it.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Brooks saddle bags coming in October? posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 9/19/2003 at 8:59:07 PM
I'm very excited about it all. Printed it all out to look over. The new bags are somthing that I will look into and probably buy when they are available. The trade show info is something I would like to see. I really appreciated seeing the pictures of the factory both inside and out. The new tool kit is what bothered me.
Too simple, to plain, I don't like that snap.

I could have done that and stamped Brooks on it!
No, I'm sorry I expected better than that from the awesome leather masters at Brooks. The tool kit, eh?
I have been revelling and rolling around in time with the old Brooks catalogs.
I have been studing Brooks both old and new and all the other saddles and other bags for a while now.

IO hope this new design is something way cool. I think it will be.
Yes, I'll buy the tool kit. Of course.

I sat looking at the web site with the pictures and all of it is still intact with many interesting new additions.
Brooks is going to be ok. Heck, it's on an upward curve! Thats wonderful.
I'm very happy it was saved/rescued/ preserved.
I have a lot of historical clippings on Brooks.
Brooks, in the scheme of things bikewise, it is an irreplaceable gem.
I appreciate the post here, really!
I could have done that one myself.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Brooks saddle bags coming in October? posted by Chris on 9/19/2003 at 9:09:06 PM
Yes, I am very pleased to see the new bags comming out.
Yes, I'll be wanting some of these. I have been waiting for this for some time now.
Also, perhaps I am being too hard on the little tool kit, they always were very simple but useful.

I tell you, some of the Brooks items were really mind blowing they were so good and well made and beautiful.
The current offerings still are well worth having.

I was lent some antique books by a friend and in one of these books was something that really was neat to see.
You know the old Lycette company?
They also made suitcases and the one I saw in this book is all furry and with a leopard print on it.
Oh, is it way cool.

It blew me away that Lycette was up to more than just bicycle and scooter seats and pannier bags and rear racks!

The Carridice bags are something that is still regarded like this.
"Dude, my carridice bag is not for sale!" "Anything else, take the whole bike but I'll never let go of my Carridice bag."
He called it his "dice bag"
Yup! A well loved little bike product!

Also glad to see the link to Carridice.

Also very happy to see the way the web page was put together and being done. They had a good person on that.
Very good all around.
I'll be watching when it is possible to order these!