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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pix of My Collection Posted posted by: P.C. Kohler on 12/16/2004 at 3:00:30 PM
Thanks to the generosity of Morgan Fletcher, I have an album of some of my collection posted in the Wooljersey.com site

Raleigh Lenton Clubman '48
Raleigh RRA '48
Rudge Super Safety '49
Rudge De Luxe Sports Tourist '51
Raleigh Clubman '51
Raleigh TI Raleigh Team Pro '75
Peugeot PX-10e '69
Cinelli SC '73


P.C. Kohler


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pix of My Collection Posted posted by David on 12/16/2004 at 11:37:45 PM
Very nice bikes. The Peugeot reminds me of a Q I've long had: What the heck does the "Inoxydable" decal refer to? Doesn't that mean "not-rustable," i.e. stainless steel? Reynolds 531 is certainly not rustproof.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/17/2004 at 12:19:07 AM
Good question!

"Inoxydable" means "Spra-Bonderised"!

It's often translated literally as "stainless" and like most literal translations, that's useless. It's essential the same rust-proofing (or shall we say rust-resistent) treatment of the tubing prior to painting.

A bike made of Spra-Bonderised Reynolds 531 is almost a bona fide Brit bike, no?

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pix of My Collection Posted posted by Drew on 12/17/2004 at 1:01:36 AM
Beautuful collection....must have spent many hours detailing them. Your 1951 Clubman raminds me of a bike I wish that I'd kept, a early 60s Royal Enfield Firefly 10 speed w/ burnt orange paint. Oddly, it had been left at the curb with a "Free" sign attached....bike was near mint condition w/new tires ? I did bring it home. One does not see Enfields out there?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pix of My Collection Posted posted by sam on 12/17/2004 at 2:05:51 AM
Peter,you bikes are the Cream of a very creamy crop of bike at the "new" wooljersey site.Highly recommended viewing(or drooling as the case may be)
And the best part is Peter rides these works of art,no better way to enjoy life!--sam

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by James on 12/17/2004 at 7:42:17 AM
The company that made the repro grey roadster grips, might they also make repro Clubman grips? My 51 Clubman arrived with blue schwinn grips, I will probably make some "grips" out of shellaced bar tape to match the pretty B17 for the time being but I'd rather cream grips. Anyone have any ideas?
I imagine white track bike grips would work, but then I'd have to use white blumels.
anyhow, that's the nicest collection of bicycles I've ever seen. It's quite nice to see rod pulled drums

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by jack on 12/17/2004 at 9:28:17 AM
Peter, it took me awhile to realize it, but you know what I covet most about your collection?...its size, conciseness, and focus. You have many of bikedom's icons covered with a minimum of hardware while I'm up to 30+ and can't bear to part with any of 'em. So, I applaud your discipline as well as your collection.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/17/2004 at 3:32:26 PM
James... yes. Lee-Healey Ltd. (makers of the old Britannia range of tyres and grips) made my grey roadster grips. They also have duplicated (for others) the black Britannia grips used on Raleighs prior to 1949 (as seen on my '48 Lenton Clubman) and the tan-coloured, big chunky "Shockstop" grips seen on my '51 Clubman. I have the black grips for sale.

Now.. what I was planning to do was to duplicate the proper rubber "sleeve grips" Raleigh used on drop bars from 1949 onwards. I have a perfect set to use to make the mould. But since I am still stuck with all those unsold roadster grips, I am certainly not doing this again any time soon!

So... you might try using white cotton bar tape and shellacing.. you get that dark creamy colour. See my '48 RRA for an example of this. Goes nicely with the cream coloured mudguards at least!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by James on 12/18/2004 at 3:37:46 AM
Have you ever tried re-shaping the celuloid mudguards? Mine don't look too bad but are a warped and seem to have flattened out a bit. I was thinking of trying a hairdryer, but just in case I bought two sets of white mudguards, the problem is those are blindingly bright and would look out of place.

How does the Record Ace compare to the clubman in terms of feel? Is the 51 Clubman essentially a non-custom Record ace?
Were Record Ace frames sized to fit the owner or were there standardized frame sizes, with the custom part being colour and spec?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Pix of My Collection Posted posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/18/2004 at 3:58:21 AM
Yes.. that warped rear mudguard on the RRA does rather let the side down a bit! A hairdryer might work but these are SO rare, I am just not risking it.

The RRA was, as you surmise, a stock frame of the highest quality... all butted Reynolds 531, exceptional workmanship, lovely lugs. But it was not made to order but available in wide range of sizes. What was to individual order was everything else and only the best was usually sped'd. What you see on this machine is the cream of the crop of British fitments and components of the era.

The RRA is an absolute dream to ride... so smooth, sure and swift, it's almost obscene. Perfection! As well it should be if you consider what it cost back then...£40!

But the Clubman, certainly the '51 one, is a close second... this had an amazing spec for the price, £10 less and, unlike the RRA, no long waitlist. These club bikes are just so much fun to ride and so elegant to look at. The only disadvantage is that the Clubman came only in a 22" frame. That's a mite small. The Super Lenton which replaced it in '51 came in a 23" and a 22" frame and was equal in all other respects.

Honestly, I consider myself very fortunate to have these machines in my collection... it's really an honour. Simply the Best of British!

P.C. Kohler

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2005 Raleigh Blue Streak posted by: Kurt K. on 12/16/2004 at 1:47:57 AM
Since I noticed a few fellows were interested in the project, I thought I'd give an update on it's progress:

Took all the garbage Shimano parts that someone jerry-rigged onto it yesterday, and today, I stripped it down to everything but the left crank and bottom bracket. The left crank cotter pin refuses to come out, no matter how hard I whack it, so the propane torch comes out Saturday for this job. As with all '73 Grand Prix models, the drivetrain is Simplex. Mostly everything is useless though - either rusted out or destroyed. The rear derailer just might be possible to salvage though.

The aluminum handlebar stem bonded itself to the fork, and no amount of ammonia loosened it. I stupidly put a rusted 1979 AMF Roadmaster wheel in front to attempt to spin the stem around. Instead, I ended up spinning the fork and wheel around themselves a few times until it looked like something from Art Basel (maybe I should try to sell the mutalated trash as so-called 'art': "The Twist, $2,400")

Pictures to come of the rusted hulk in a few days.

It won't enter paint stage anytime soon though - gotta wait to get the darn 1949 Schwinn Henderson out to do that.

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 2005 Raleigh Blue Streak posted by James on 12/17/2004 at 7:43:06 AM
Were you the one who had a Royal Enfield frame for sale?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 2005 Raleigh Blue Streak posted by Kurt K on 12/19/2004 at 3:52:10 PM
Yes, in fact, I am.

I do recall a fellow on the Lightweights forum reminiscing over his R-E lightweight in bronze - you wouldn't happen to be that particular chap, would you?

You can drop me an email at cudak888@aol.com.

Take care!


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh rack ? posted by: Drew on 12/16/2004 at 1:07:48 AM
Is there a brand name rear rack which was used by Raleigh for 3-speeds in the late 40's - early 50's? I know that in the late 60's & 70's they used the 'Prestube Minor' brand.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh rack ? posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/16/2004 at 5:26:14 PM
Drew, to my knowledge, no Raleighs of this period came with a factory installed rack. The first instances of this didn't come until c. 1966 with the Sprites and the Superbes.

So, the rack was an "aftermarket" accessory of which there were many British suppliers: Brooks, Midland, Ashby, Presstube et. al. Almost all were black enamelled steel. I still like the Presstube Minors the best; they just look more "finished" somehow with their nice rounded corners. By comparison, the Brooks were very bare bones and "girdery" with no aesthetic considerations. Most of the Indian-made knock-offs today are copies of the Brooks including those godawful "twisty" stay ones in chrome. Eeeech!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Raleigh rack ? posted by Warren on 12/18/2004 at 1:41:01 AM
Midland is the one I find on most brit bikes of the period...

MISC:   Raleigh 20 Tandem posted by: James on 12/14/2004 at 7:58:15 AM
It's a Raleigh 20 tandem, or is it the other model, if it doesn't fold?

   RE:MISC: Raleigh 20 Tandem posted by Tim on 12/14/2004 at 7:37:12 PM
I passed a copy of the picture to a friend of mine whos' father worked at Raleigh in Nottingham from the 60s thru to 94. He says no way did a Twenty ever be made as a tandem. This is either a special one off or home made. It does not appear in any of the catalogues either. Wierd.


   RE:MISC:   Raleigh 20 Tandem posted by Kurt K. on 12/14/2004 at 8:41:28 PM
Looks like a very nice custom tandem - couldn't be an original though.

To back Tim's claim up:

It would probably have had a dual heron crank for the stoker, however, it is equipped with an aftermarket piece. Whoever did the conversion probably didn't feel like getting a third Heron crank - he/she was probably burnt out by the time they found that tandem bottom bracket axle.

Main frame tubes (top tube??) have scuff protectors - another feature that was never featured on the originals.

What clinches it as a conversion however (in my opinion), is the lack of an idler gear between the two cranks - something a company like Raleigh would not have forgotten to take into account.

P.S.: Those decals look like downtube transfers for a Mink Blue Raleigh Professional - although I may be wrong here.

Take care,


   RE:MISC:   Raleigh 20 Tandem posted by Matthew on 12/17/2004 at 10:44:50 PM
I agree with the above comments. I've seen a couple of these type of machines usually real abhortions but this one is so good its bad, Imean bad its good?

MISC:   Interesting German Roadster posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/13/2004 at 10:30:02 AM
Neat machine... shipping is a bit steep, but neat nonetheless:



Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:MISC:   Interesting German Roadster posted by Kurt K on 12/14/2004 at 1:37:31 AM
Very sharp frame, quite nice. Looks to have some sort of 3 speed coaster ("all in favor of throwing your S3Cs out the window, say Aye") in the rear - looks like it just might be a Sturmey trigger though. Very unique (nevertheless, ugly) bars. I wonder if they are original. Rather fancy lugwork and quite a few fittings for a bike that appears rather spartan at first glance.

Good luck to whoever has the chore of keeping those chrome wire stays from bending.

Take care,


   RE:MISC:   Interesting German Roadster posted by David on 12/14/2004 at 3:10:13 AM
Fat tires, maybe 26 x 1 1/2 (650B or ISO 584 mm) ?

   RE:MISC: Interesting German Roadster posted by James on 12/14/2004 at 7:40:50 AM
Speaking of fancy lugs check out these dutch sports from the 60s, most have fancy lugs and paint, one even has a 531 frame.

FOR SALE:   Parts for sale posted by: David Poston on 12/12/2004 at 11:49:05 PM
I've listed a bunch of parts for sale on the 'bay, and more are coming. Please e-mail me privately if you need parts. I'm cleaning out my garage and selling off everything I don't need or haven't got around to using. Thanks for looking.


David Poston

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmy Archer dynohubs posted by: Mic Cole on 12/11/2004 at 8:08:17 PM
Wondering what year front Dynohubs changed from Aluminum/steel to all steel? I have a 1957 & it's the Aluminum/steel type.....is one type considered more sought after then the other?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmy Archer dynohubs posted by sam on 12/12/2004 at 3:37:42 AM
And some had bakelite faces.A timeline on then would be good---anybody know of one?---sam

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmy Archer dynohubs posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/13/2004 at 5:13:52 PM
The dynohub went through myriad variations, starting as rather enormous 12 v. version in 1938 (with the most wonderful and equally huge headlamp!), then a very rare 8 v. type which came out just in time for the war and then the new post-war 6 v. version introduced in 1947. At the same time, the combined dynothree and dyno four rear hubs were introduced. All of these had the black bakelite face plate. In 1952 or thereabout this was changed to the silver face. In the 1970s it was further changed with a much larger axle housing as I recall. Tony Hadland's website has more details I think; I believe it was discontinued in the early 1980s. The dynofour and dynothrees were gone by 1970.

Of course it was not alone: lest we forget the BSA "hublite" which was superior in that it had an alloy housing. I am not sure why Sturmey-Archer never introduced an alloy dynohub for sports and club bikes.

Tony Hadland's book on Sturmey-Archer is the source for all the details on this archtypical British cycle fitment.

P.C. Kohler

MISC:   VAR crank cotter press on Ebay posted by: David on 12/11/2004 at 7:11:11 PM
Item # 7120679930. Starting price is steep ($75), maybe the seller will relist at a lower price when it gets no bids.

   Did you go to the Galveston thing ? posted by sam on 12/11/2004 at 9:12:50 PM
Saw it was on in the paper.---sam

MISC:   Raleigh Message Forum posted by: Kurt K on 12/11/2004 at 3:23:10 AM
Just finished re-organizing the forum's boards, so I thought I'd drop a note here...postings have been slow recently.


Take care,


AGE / VALUE:   BCC book posted by: sam on 12/10/2004 at 11:21:49 PM
Pages 5 tru 9 were updated.See at:

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Book ? posted by: Chris K. on 12/10/2004 at 12:36:06 PM
Is there a Good Raleigh book reference in print, one showing history, models through the years, specs, etc. Oldroads and Retro-Raleigh's are a nice online guide but a printed book would be nice.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Book ? posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/10/2004 at 5:01:57 PM
In a word: no

Cycle histories have almost never been machine or model oriented. It's usually framebuilding theories, racing results or business history. It's almost never "about the bike"! Amazing.

Everyone has "History of the Raleigh Cycle" by Bowden which is a good read with some minor bits about the bikes. But nothing remotely comprehensive. The single best resources are the archives here, the Classic Renezvous site (for lightweights), the V-CC and the Retro Raleighs site.

There is a diminishing market for specialty books like this anyway... everyone wants "free" web sites it seems. Since there is zero profit in researching and writing such books for the author, the labour of love might just as well be on a website. But then again, who pays for the website?!!

A history of Raleigh cycle models is frankly absurdly easy. Just have access to a representative collection of the catalogues through the years, back issues of "Cycling" etc.

P.C. Kohler

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   The Raleigh Chopper and a 20" front wheel posted by: Kurt K on 12/10/2004 at 12:29:28 AM
Thought this was quite interesting - doesn't look all that bad like this:


No relation to seller.

Take care,


FOR SALE:   NOS men's Phillips roadster pedals posted by: Kevin C. on 12/9/2004 at 2:52:41 AM
For sale: One pair vintage "Phillips Celtonia Gents' Full Rubber Pedals," unused, still in original box with original wrap. These are the big, heavy, rebuildable men's pedals. Box is marked "Phillips Quality Bicycle Fitments, J. A. Phillips & Co. Limited, Birmingham, England. Perfect Christmas gift for that special English Roadster in your life. $100 postpaid.


FOR SALE:   NOS Sturmey-Archer front drum brake posted by: Kevin C on 12/9/2004 at 2:43:39 AM
For Sale: 36-spoke Sturmey-Archer front drum brake, still in original, tattered box, with cable with adjusting barrel; chromed brake lever, clamp for fork, and spanner wrench. It has never been on a bike. Chrome is excellent but painted backside needs cleaning and tip of the arm that goes on the fork has some surface rust. Stamped BF 46 12. $100 postpaid.

WANTED:   36h raleigh/sturmey front hub posted by: louis on 12/8/2004 at 8:57:36 PM
does anyone have a servicable raleigh/sturmey 36h front hub they can sell? looking to build a set of alternate wheels for the wife's bike for rainy riding, and the alumininum rims i already have are 36h. looking for the usual 5/16 axle hub found on just about every 3 speed from 1950-80. i have access to an axle and cones at this point, so shell only will be aok.

feel free to email me at the above address, removing the spam deterrent text from the address.

   RE:WANTED:   36h raleigh/sturmey front hub posted by Bob on 12/16/2004 at 4:14:43 AM
I just scrapped out about 18 3-speed bikes, saving front and rear hubs and other parts. If you haven't gotten the hub yet, e-mail me. I have some. Only cost will be postage. Bob

   RE:WANTED:   36h raleigh/sturmey front hub posted by louis on 12/16/2004 at 6:04:33 PM

yeah, i'm definitely still looking for the hub. i tried to send you an email at the address listed, but my isp didn't like it due to the space character. i sent the message to number of variations, replacing the space with underscore, period, etc. but you may not have received it. let me know.