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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by: Kurt K on 12/26/2004 at 11:52:10 PM
Since the other thread was getting to be quite long, I'm continuing the post here:

The Rudge is a 1979. Could possibly be a 1980 model, as the hub is stamped July 1979 - who knows how long the lag may have been for this particular bike.

Top tube has a STICKER, not a decal, with "TI Made In England" - all other transfers are more traditional decals.

The fork is original, and features a fork lock, not a frame lock like a traditional Rudge (can this '79 be considered "traditional," even though it came from Nottingham?). No chrome fork crown on this model: The fork is welded up in the same design as the Raleighs, and the locking mechanism is identical.

The only variance from the Raleigh fork design is that the left-hand 'thimble' has been substituted for a flat chrome cap.

Wheels are laced up with galvinized spokes - I saw this in the dynohub photo online, and was the first giveaway that this machine probably dated from the late '60s or anywhere from the '70s.

The Westwood (they weren't making them with 28" Westricks...yet) rims are rather cheaply chromed, considering that this is a Nottingham Raleigh. The front rim is too far gone, cosmetically.

The front hub is marked in block letters "Made In England," with no Sir Walter or Sturmey-Archer markings, and is about 1/4" narrower then the front hub on my '71 Sports.

It sports it's original tires marked "Raleigh Roadster" on the sidewalls.

Now, I know a couple of fellows (including me) were swearing up-and-down that the headlight was a replacement. Much to my surprise, stamped right on it's lens is "Sturmey-Archer."

This brings the total count of all-chrome post-1965 S/A marked headlight variants to four (to my knowledge):

Under-the lamp lever switch (w/tapered front housing)
Top-mounted 3-position switch (w/tapered front housing)
Top-mounted 3-position switch (w/o taper)
Under-the lamp w/modern flick switch. (w/tapered front housing)

The bag is identical to the one shown on the Sports model in Retro Raleigh's 1976 catelouge. Seat is the original B-73 Brooks (that goes without saying!).

A Pletcher alloy kickstand is clamped to the chainstays - curiously enough, it didn't interfere with the rear rod brakes.

The shifter is as P.C. said, a 1970's black/silver S/A. The bell, straingly enough, is original, with Sir Walter Raleigh right in the center. One of the crappiest looking bells I've ever seen - mostly galvinized, and the bottom of it is open with no cover.

You might notice in the ad photos that the hub's rear axle nut has an indicator chain protector on it. This is another 1970's feature which further confirms the bike's vintage.

This Rudge is an abselutely shameful example of Raleigh's cost-cutting measures of the '70s...still, an interesting piece, and in decent-enough shape to clean up, although it screams for nice stainless spokes.

I will not disclose the seller's reserve. Let this speak for itself...

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/27/2004 at 4:37:28 PM
This is an absolute headscratcher! Where on earth did Raleigh market the Rudge name in 1979??? Most of the other brands were gone by 1972 in the major markets. So this is assuredly a bike that was bought overseas (possibly Denmark, Netherlands, Germany) and brought back here.

It just shows you one can never know everything about Raleigh!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Kurt K on 12/28/2004 at 12:39:37 AM
Certainly an interesting little page of Raleigh's history wrapped up in this bike. No doubt, I must agree that this could not have been an export model.

One other little thing I forgot to mention: The grips are original - they are pitiful little plastic replicas of Raleigh's bullet grips.

Take care,


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Chris on 12/28/2004 at 5:27:20 PM
Ok, then this is just like the Raleigh tourist D.L.1. bikes from the 1979 period. The alloy Pletcher kickstand was made for these bikes so the rod brake gear does not hang up the bike from not having a kickstand. This is your basic Raleigh Tourist D.L.1. only it's wearing Rudge paint and decal transfers.
Come to think of it, some of the later day 28 inch wheel, rod brake Raleigh's did have crappy chrome plating on the wheels. If one could call it plating. Handlebars were always good but they cut corners or something on those wheels. Yes, it does cry out for stainless spokes. Getting a mechanic to lace up your old rims properly with new stainless steel spokes is not easy. You would not believe the problems I have had and D.T. Swiss is not cheap.
Raleigh stoped making the 28 inch wheel bikes in 1986/1987.
They probably had a small number od decals and paint on hand to use up and who knows where the end market would have been. People would say... I want this in chrome or in the Rudge scheme and if you had some pull they would do it. That sticker on top, They did that with the late Raleigh 28 inch wheel Tourist bikes. Common.
Still, this is the first Rudge bike in 28 to go this far into the future. I thought that these were all gone long before too. I was surprised at so many of the parts making companies going to India and Africa.
Things lived on longer than we think, they went traveling abroad before dying and some of it has been re-born or it never died at all.
Whomever does buy it, I hope they do not dent that chaincase!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Kurt K on 12/29/2004 at 12:35:45 AM
I'm familiar with this low-quality rim plating from Raleigh - my 1970 Twenty 'features' this, and the rust factor is the same as this Rudge: rusted up in front, and mostly perfect in the rear (thanks to the leaky AW), although the rear rim shows that the chrome is no better then shiny alloy. Curiously enough, this is not the case on my 1971 or the 1969 Superbe that a friend in the area owns.

I have had no problem with getting my wheels spoked - I do it myself, and order the spokes according to the original Raleigh Industries spoke chart. Lace, true, dish & tension according to Sheldon Brown's manual, and tighten in the key of F sharp (with two pianos in the house, this isn't difficult).

Hate to say this Chris, but someone already got around to putting a decent dent in the chaincase...right over the decal.

One of the bidders was a Rudge enthusiast from Finland - would have been rather intresting if this bike ended up crossing the ocean once again. However, he has been outbid, and the bike is now at $305.00 - probably the all-time high price ever bid for a conventional "Model 1", whether it may be a Rudge, Humber or Raleigh.

I would have said that it would max out at $275...but never guessed it would pass the $300 mark. Very curious to see the results of this auction.

Take care,


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Chris on 12/29/2004 at 1:15:16 AM
It might easily go past the $600.00 mark. We have seen these go up to/ slightly over $1000.00
This is the first 28 inch wheel, rod brake Rudge we have seen in awhile.
When I took ownership of my 1957 Raleigh as everybody stood in a circle and looked it over one of the guys commented
It's original and not messed with and in unison they all demanded that I keep it that way. No dents in my chaincase so I am terrified to go near the thing!
Yes, will be interesting to see where it ends up.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Rudge Tourist - continued posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/29/2004 at 3:25:56 PM
From my perspective, as a cycle this is just a late '70s rebadged DL-1 with the "third world" style handlebars.

But what I find utterly fascinating is the Rudge branding. It's common knowledge that Raleigh ditched these other brands in the early to mid 70s yet one finds them cropping up later. Why? Just where did this machine come from?? Rudge was not one of the names that was sold or "appropriated" by the Indians either like BSA.

Anyway, interesting. And remember folks: you can buy a Sunbeam or a pre-war "real" Rudge in the UK, on e-Bay for less than this is going for!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Drew on 12/29/2004 at 10:33:24 PM
The only thing I might add...I spent some time in Holland in 1982 and remember seeing many English cycles which I had not seen before. I think English roadsters were at a low point in sales in the 1978-82 period and creative things were done with inventories to sell bikes. One thing about this Rudge...you'll probably have the only one at the next bike swap!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Matthew on 12/29/2004 at 11:02:03 PM
What an expensive mystery. This, I will agree with PC, is a seventies machine and my guess (and it is just a guess, all surmise) is that it has probably never seen the shores of blighty. It looks far more like a 'Colonial' model as seen often on newsreels, in places like India [a place my heart goes out to at present, along with Indonesia and the Maldives] There is no doubt it is interesting and will afford somebody a happy and decent ride but you could buy the real deal here in England for a fraction (10%) of the highest current bid on this baby. The same sort of thing happens with classic cars on eBay in the UK. Ten people watch, some bid crazily low and drop out early, then two push up the bidding and finally somebody with the cash wins on a last minute bid, but occasionally somebody bids like a man with no arms and a £1000 car sells at three times it value. Caveat emptor - buyer beware. I have seen few eBay photos which tell the truth or do the item justice.

Happy 2005 to all our fellow Riders and Restorers, may all your rust be light, all you hills small ones and may your 3 speed tick merrily.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Tourist - continued posted by Kurt K. on 1/2/2005 at 4:11:17 PM
Auction ended at $315.00, reserve not met. Ad has not been relisted, nor is there any evidence of feedback between seller and buyer.

I must say I believe this story has worn out it's welcome though - too much speculating coupled with eBay criticism isn't good for a forum.

Take care,


AGE / VALUE:   Who sold Free Spirit Bikes posted by: John Metz on 12/26/2004 at 10:17:27 PM
Did Sears sell Free Spirit bikes and who made Free Spirit. I have a 3 speed Free Spirit Sheffield with a
1988 Sturmey-Archer hub and a frame that was made in Taiwan. Oviously not a true English 3 speed but it rides
nice and the frame ia a lugged type that looks well made.
I would appreciate any info anyone can give me. Thanks.
Cycle on!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Who sold Free Spirit Bikes posted by Kurt K on 12/27/2004 at 2:06:12 AM
Yes, Sears sold the Free Spirit line. I have no idea who made them - I'm sure the manufactures changed a few times as well.

That's about all I know - the only Free Spirits I've run across are worthless MTBs in the trash and repairs at the LBS, which are mostly MTBs.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Who sold Free Spirit Bikes posted by David on 12/28/2004 at 4:20:53 AM
I think Sears sourced 'em from all over. I know that some were Austrian.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Who sold Free Spirit Bikes posted by Ralph on 12/28/2004 at 8:03:01 PM
Lots of Free Spirits were made by Huffy. I would imagine that the other "Big" manufacturers (Murray, Columbia, etc.) also had some input into the line. These bikes were absolute refuse. But there were good quality ones made by Styer and some other high end manufacturers. I worked on Huffy made Free Spirits in the 1980's and they came with Shimano hubs. I imagine that a Sturmey Archer equiped bike would have come from one of the "good" manufacturers.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Who sold Free Spirit Bikes posted by John Metz on 12/29/2004 at 12:17:45 AM
Thanks for the info guys. This bike is apparently one
of thwe nicer ones. The frame is lugged and the workmanship is decent.
Cycle on!

AGE / VALUE:   Merry Christmas to all Old Roads friends posted by: humberchristopher28@hotrmail.com on 12/26/2004 at 1:23:43 AM
I would like to say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everybody.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Merry Christmas to all Old Roads friends posted by BillG on 12/31/2004 at 11:29:05 PM
And the same to you. I've enjoyed your wisdom over the years here at oldroads.

AGE / VALUE:   Marry Christmas posted by: sam on 12/25/2004 at 5:20:08 PM
A great Christmas it is!Got the day off from work(that's rare)Snowed yesterday,IN LAREDO!Wow!And when I got in found the Hiduminium brake set I ordered had arrived!
Stacy,Larry ,Christopher,Warren,Kurt,Drew,David,P.C. Max,Tom,Edward,Matthew,Kevin, Louis,Scott,Robert,Jack,James,Tim,And Vin Enjoyed the year,Ya'll make this group the best!Best wishes Ya'll---sam

MISC:   Merry Xmas et al posted by: Warren on 12/25/2004 at 4:07:18 PM
Hope all of you have a great holiday, whatever persuasion you may be. Daddy got a brand new shiny Brooks tool pouch under the tree this morning. Oh my...

Now which saddle on which bike? Looks like a club bike accessory to me. It's something that will definitely make me go faster, if only to show it off to all those sucking my wheel.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Good buy's still happen on ebay posted by: Drew on 12/24/2004 at 12:51:19 PM
Last month I purchased this Raleigh (ebay # 7114573654) for $42.00 plus it was just 40 miles from me. It turns out it's a 1950 with the Dynohub & light added in 1957. I removed the circa 1970 rack, put two new tires on and did a throrough cleaning. The overall condition is better then expected. It rides great and looks pretty sharp. This is the oldest Raleigh i've purchased and do notice a better quality compared to my 1974 DL-1. Keeps yours eyes open, good buy's are out there!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Good buy's still happen on ebay posted by Warren on 12/24/2004 at 2:30:53 PM
Wonderful bike at a great price! I wish all of them came my way for less the $50...actually, most of them do. These bikes are still so undervalued when compared to what is being manufactured today. Your bike can be ridden for another 50 years. Then maybe your kids will once again put it on ebay and get a decent dollar for it.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Good buy's still happen on ebay posted by David on 12/24/2004 at 3:38:22 PM
Even a 23" frame! I'm glad I didn't see that one; you would have paid more!

AGE / VALUE:   cotter pin press on ebay posted by: sam on 12/22/2004 at 3:18:01 PM
No relation:

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   cotter pin press on ebay posted by Tom on 12/22/2004 at 11:37:12 PM
I have the same one as that but mine has wooden handles, otherwize the exact same. It works great but it is heavy. You cannot take it with you on rides though.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   cotter pin press on ebay posted by David on 12/24/2004 at 3:55:04 PM
Is that the cool "Cyclo" trademark in the detailed pic of the handle?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Getting The Paint Back posted by: Barrett on 12/21/2004 at 8:23:49 PM
So...after bouncing around through the hands of a number of people, into my hands falls a ladies' Raleigh 3-speed (coaster brake), which was obviously once stolen and painted in the usual "Masking tape? What's that?" manner over the frame, fenders, and parts of the rims, hubs and spokes. My goal, of course, is to get rid of this hasty application of blue and get down to the original black (actually, it might be brown). The bike rides well, save for the chintzy vinyl wannabe-Brooks saddle which is a compact torture chamber. Is there a way, short of sand/bead-blasting, to get rid of this layer of paint (which seems to to be a somewhat light coat), whle leaving what's underneath relatively intact?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Getting The Paint Back posted by Kurt K. on 12/21/2004 at 10:41:21 PM
Barrett, I don't believe any form of sandblasting would work, however, I may be wrong as well.

I have heard the suggestion of lighter fluid for removing hasty Cheap-O paintjobs. I have not tried this before, so I suggest that you test this on a hard-to-see area if you attempt it. I can't say that this will work - I found it as a suggestion for removing slobbed-on hobby paint off of old Hot Wheels redlines cars, without harming the finish below. The Hot Wheels finishes were leaded - I don't know if this is a factor to whether the original paint sticks or not.

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Getting The Paint Back posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/21/2004 at 11:29:50 PM
I've used lacquer thinner to remove light coatings and overspray in many cases. Definitely try it on a small area first... most "can" variety spray paint will come off using it... but I don't know if it will attack the original finish underneath.

Good luck!

Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Getting The Paint Back posted by Edward in Vancouver on 12/22/2004 at 1:04:31 AM
The "it's hot, give it a quick paint job" finishes usually come off quite well for the simple reason that there is(was) no surface preparation. If the frame was dirty or greasy to begin with, the paint won't stick very well. Along with lighter fluid, a product called "Goof off" is good. It is made to remove gum, stickers, and pesky price tag residue. Again, try a little in an inconspicious area. You might have to do a little "coaxing": With a matchstick scrape some spray paint off and massage a little Goof off/lighter fluid in that area. A nylon dish scrub pad will work well too. Any factory paint job older than two years will be alot more robust and stable than a quick shot of Trem-clad.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Getting The Paint Back posted by Kurt K on 12/22/2004 at 2:49:28 AM
Edward's suggestions are excellent - let me suggest that if you do not locate "Goof-off" - try "Goo Gone" - it's the same thing.

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Getting The Paint Back posted by jack on 12/22/2004 at 4:12:15 AM
There is a citrus oil based paint remover that tauts itself as biodegradeable and non-toxic. I saw it used on "This old House" and worked quite well. Other solvents in various strengths may work as well but they are nasty to use.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by: Kurt K on 12/21/2004 at 1:08:12 AM

Such a goregous bike, and only 25 miles from me, but alas, I cannot afford it. So close it is, yet so far.

I hear it cry out for someone, someone who will care for it, care for it and lovingly repair the few little things that it needs fixed. The pain that I feel, for I would die to have it!

The chainwheel cover is not aligned correctly - the distinct Rudge hand peeks out from inside. Only the Raleighs and Humbers can rival such unique detail.

The B70-3 sits atop the seatpost, without a doubt, the original seat to this grand old Roadster, a bicycle not abused, just neglected.

Even the original battery cell casing...how I wish I could have this bike.

Oh well, enough of dreaming of something that will never be. I thought you fellows would like to see the link anyway - not often that one of these Rudge Tourists pop up on eBay.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Oh, the agony... posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/21/2004 at 1:41:14 AM
Can't afford it? It's $9.95 and who knows what the reserve is?!!

But this is NOT "pre-1950". Just ain't. It's more like a 1962-64. Indeed it's not all original either as the gear shifter is 1970s.

But yes... nice. This is the De Luxe Tourist in Rudge maroon. I have the De Luxe Sports version.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Oh, the agony... posted by Kurt K. on 12/21/2004 at 2:08:15 AM
Well, if he has a reserve on that thing, it's probably more then $30 (no point in setting up a reserve for anything under $30!)...and when you are sixteen years of age, and making money by piecing together mountain bikes that neighbors chuck in the trash and selling them...well, you get the picture. Time to stop feeling sorry for myself and get a real job.

I've been tempted to get off my lazy behind and get a decent job, but this hasn't progressed nearly as well as I would like...for obvious reasons. I must motiviate myself - every day counts as more money in the bank.

I figured as much that it wasn't anywhere from the 1950's era - the bright chrome rims gave that away. I also spotted that post-1971 trigger on it as well (which may be a Tawanese rip-off "3-Speed Shifter"), but from the positioning of it, I assumed that it was a sloppy replacement put there due to the location of the bell.

I saw your Rudge De Luxe Sports in your photo collection - a fine machine you have there, not to mention the rest of your outstanding collection. Truely the finest.

All the best,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by Drew on 12/21/2004 at 2:31:26 PM
Also note; newer reflecter and that headlite looks circa 1970 ? I don't know when the first chrome lights appeared, my '73 SA front Dynohub came with this same headlite. It would be nice to know what year that rear hub is? Kurt...you could email the seller and encourage him to end auction due to these description errors, then make an offer. I've purchased several bikjes this way...this is not being sneaky, there truely is misinformation in sthe seller's description!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/21/2004 at 4:26:55 PM
And not to be TOO suspicious.... do we even know this machine was build in England? It reminds me very much of a lovely Raleigh, identical to this, that was built by Raleigh of Ceylon, not England. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems an incongriously traditional machine to be c. mid 60s and in the USA somehow.

That headlamp is c. 1966 by the way. The shifter is c. 1975.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by Kurt K. on 12/21/2004 at 8:01:07 PM
Just wrote the seller an email if it would be possible to see it - whether I may actually end up purchasing it or not, well, that's too early to tell.

>Drew: I don't see any reflectors present other then the pair on the pedals, which are definitely NOT proper equipment - if it is a '62-'64, as Peter says, it should have the rebuildable rubber-blocks.

The headlight is no question a late '60s or 1970's piece, however, I doubt it as being a Sturmey-Archer - the diameter appears slightly larger then the S-A lamps, and does not taper in front. The lamp on this particular model looks to be a dead ringer for a 1970's U-Stone aftermarket replacement, one of which I have on my 1947 Schwinn. The U-Stone light has been produced by countless other manufactures, and can still be purchased new - the most recent examples coming from the Lowrider Company.

>P.C. Kohler: Raleigh of Ceylon? I am completely lost - but quite interested to know more...


   RE:RE:RE:RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by Kurt K on 12/24/2004 at 10:52:30 PM
Although I don't doubt that it is a 1962, I find the fact that it may be a 1979 a bit harder to swallow - did they keep the same decals all the way until then? I know Raleigh didn't.

The month code, of course can't be "79," and the "40" he refers to is the hub's spoke hole drillings - 40 holes.

He recently responded to me and asked that I may call him - might be able to go down and have a look at it on Sunday.

Take care,


   RE:RE:RE:RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by "the bike dude" humberchristopher on 12/25/2004 at 2:15:07 AM
The handlebars are the real 1950's deal. The finish especially says: Old School Quality.
The grips themselves, make me wonder. Still I'd give them a pass too.
The front and rear fender stays . I question those. That leads me to think it's newer or from another factory other than Nottingham.
Still, nice over all.
The absence of 28 inch Rudge bikes on e- bay to compare this against, does not help.

Lets take a look at the Raleigh Rudge Humber diagrams again.
Yes, the trigger shifter is too new. It's been replaced. It leads me to wonder what else has been replaced as well. It is routed wrong too.Can't wait to open up that bottom bracket and examine the cups and spindle for wear.
Tires? Are they original?
It is missng period "candy" too. The bell, I can't make it out.
The trigger is on the wrong side the bell is on the wrong side as well.
No lucas odometer, stuff like that, No lucas gem lock.
The bag is not period correct. This is a common 1970's bag that belongs on the 26 X 1 3/8 cable brake Raleigh Sports.
Pictures are good but need closeups. Especially looking for dents, I would first inspect the chaincase. However this chaincase looks awesome. No funny business there except about those decals....

I'd want to gently, oh so gently, prise off that pie plate and look at the crank. The chrome finish and detail on the famed Rudge hand will tell you. If it's like those handlebars, then I'd be reaching for the wallet. I tend to give way to much information but this is written up leaving out too much info.
Privately, The decals look wrong to me. I don't want to suggest to anybody here that these are not right. Quietly and personally, I would be looking those over if I was there with the bike in person. I won't say either way on these decals.
The bike is in the Rudge maroon and if this was newer, or not exactly original, the first thing to be messed up and not correct would be that paint. Now, is this the original Rudge maroon?
So I'm kinda, believing that this is the real McCoy.

I am waiting for that original 28 inch, 24 inch frame Humber in the famed Humber blue in this kind of condition to appear up on e- bay and then....
Amidst, the plaster dust and wood splinters and scattered shingles I'll blast up there into the heavens and grab it away from the other intelligent life forms( fellow bicycle collectors) that will be hovering about, also trying to buy it.
Then, They'll be talking about the
"Record Humber roadster bicycle on e- bay."
If I see it, that this.
Refusing to accept back of the hand treatment or service from anybody and still yours in Cycling. "Christopher Robin"
My living room is looking like Captain Picard's house when he gets caught up in the Nexus from "Star Trek Generations"
Right down to the French chairs and subtle candle-light lighting and gold gilt.
Listen to P.C. Kohler, his words are always right on the money.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by sam on 12/21/2004 at 10:07:25 PM
Don't worry Kurt,When you have a better paying job,the bikes you'll want will still be just a little more than you got!---sam

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/21/2004 at 10:14:43 PM
"Real" Raleighs were made in Ireland, the Netherlands, Nigeria, Canada, India, South Africa, Ceylon and even England!

After the Second World War and the independence of most of the Empire many of the former colonies either blocked sales of imported cycles, like Raleighs, to foster their own home makes or they permitted Raleigh to set up local production. This is also why you found Irish, Canadian and Dutch-made Raleighs in the USA during the height of the bike boom when Nottingham couldn't handle the load.

There have been one or two Ceylon-made Raleigh roadsters on eBay, distinguished by wonderful decals. Look to be good quality too and very traditional. The last Ceylon made Raleigh looked just liked this Rudge. But I honestly have never seen reference to the Rudge brand in the colonies so if it's Ceylon-made (or Indian etc) it would be odd it was badged Rudge.

There was no funny business by Raleigh in this... it's clearly marked in the familiar script on the top tube "Made in Ceylon" and the headbadge may still say Nottingham, England. Some variants substituted cross-hatching in the area of the badge. But they were still "real" Raleighs.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Oh, the agony... posted by Kurt K on 12/22/2004 at 12:18:03 AM
Dear Peter,

I was aware of the England, Ireland, South African and possibly heard of the India factory once or twice, but I had not of the Nigeria, Canada and Ceylon factories - they are all new to me.

Doesn't change the way I feel about the bike though - a Raleigh is a Raleigh, just so long as it wasn't built after 1980, features 26 T.P.I. throughout and does not say (god forbid) "MTB" on it.

Take care,


   RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by Kurt K on 12/22/2004 at 2:56:42 AM
One other thing - the fork does not feature the traditional Rudge crown, rather, it appears mostly identical to the Raleigh, save for the "thimbles", which appear to be flat round caps.

My first guess would be "fork lock", only to realize that the Rudge model fork locks had the key on the frame - only Raleigh had a mechanisim that would even resemble the one on this particular Rudge.

Any thoughts?


   RE:RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by Kurt K on 12/22/2004 at 2:27:36 PM
Just checked the ad again - the reserve is not met at $100.51. Looks like the seller is another one of those folks who think they have the crown jewels, IMHO.

If this thing does sell, I'm very curious to see how much it will go for - not to mention what will be stated in the feedback, if the buyer believes the "pre-1950" nonsense.

Take care,


   RE:RE:RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by Dick on 12/24/2004 at 7:55:54 PM
I received the this response yesterday to my inquiry about the correct vintage of his bike:
>You asked:
>"Are you certain about the vintage of this bike? There >should be a 2 digit date code on the barrel of the rear >hub. Something like 48 for 1948, or 67 or 74 for those >years."

>there is a 40 on the side of the hub between 2 spoke >holes and a 79 on the hub which can not be the year

I notice he doesn't post his "Q&A's" for everyone to read.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Rudge De Luxe Tourist posted by Kent on 1/3/2005 at 6:10:44 PM
Where could someone find decals for an Austro-Daimler bicycle? Thanks in advance.

   harasseddaughter posted by jill on 1/7/2005 at 9:54:46 PM
I dont know were to start,my farther bought his first bike when he was 21 years old (1948)he was born in 1927 and his raleigh cycle with original and genunine sturmey-archer three-speed gear and rear wheel dinimo is in excerlent condition and his pride and joy but we are trying to find information and pictures of raleigh bikes from the year before and the same year he bought his(1948)
we are also looking for someone or were we can get his dinamo lamp repaired,please do eney of you have eney ideas id be very greatfull to hear from eney one with information or ideas were i can get help,thanks xxx

AGE / VALUE:   S/A skiptooth hub! posted by: sam on 12/20/2004 at 3:20:58 AM
Here's one you don't see very often
Must have been an import for a hi-end ballooner like a Phanton---no relation to seller---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   S/A skiptooth hub! posted by Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 10:55:55 PM
Interesting - must have a wider driver on it...either that, or the skip tooth sprocket fits with the two sprocket shims removed.

Take care,


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   S/A skiptooth hub! posted by Kurt K. on 12/20/2004 at 10:57:30 PM
P.S.: This gives me ideas for a hot-rodded Schwinn middleweight...

WANTED:   28" Whitewalls? posted by: jack on 12/20/2004 at 1:16:53 AM
Please excuse my laziness in not searching for myself but I wonder where (if anywhere) 28x1-1/2 whitewall tires are available?

   RE:WANTED:   28 WSW posted by Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 1:59:00 AM
Good luck with the 28s" - believe it or not, finding whitewall tires in any size for English bikes is next to impossible.

I myself, have been looking for a whitewall set in E.A.3. (26 X 1-3/8") for a while (and we all know this is an very common size) and have yet to find any locally, let alone online. (Good luck online - you'd think all of North America rides solely on MTB tires)

I did find a pair of WW 27 X 1-1/4" brick-tread tires in one of the local shops one day, and grabbed them quicker then you could say "Raleigh Clubman." Tires are "Duro" brand.

On this note, I did happen to find the U.S. wholesalers for the 27s". I traced them back to F&R Company at www.fnrco.com (long story). It also happens that these folks also have WW E.A.3s. too. They also have a pretty spiffy line of English sized gumwalls and blackwalls too - odd, since they mostly deal in Lowriders.

Upon more research, however, I found out that F&R requires that their dealers purchase a minimum of 150 tires each order. It's no wonder that these tires are so scarce.

Anyway, to get back to your original topic, I hope you do locate a pair of 28s in WW - I've seen more then one photo of a Raleigh Tourist running around on some kind of whitewall or another.

I do have the phone number for one company listed in the archives that carries, to my knowledge, blackwall 28s". It never occured to me to ask about whitewall 28s, as I don't own a Tourist ;-)

Take care,


   RE:RE:WANTED:   28 WSW posted by Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 2:13:39 AM
P.S.: Just noticed on Page 2 of the F&R Tire section that they do list a blackwall 28 X 1-1/2" brick-tread tire "38971 TIRE 28" X 1 1/2" ALL/BLACK 110."

Looks like F&R has covered everything EXCEPT the 28" WWs (and I believe they also missed the BMX time-trial size 22 X 1.75" - but that's not important!)

Take care!


   RE:RE:RE:WANTED: 28 WSW posted by jack on 12/20/2004 at 3:56:44 AM
Thanks for the info Kurt. I recently got a Puch Waffenrad austrian roadster that's shod with 28" Semperit Super Elite whitewalls. The tires look so pretty that I thought about maybe getting some for the Tourist. Based on your response, I'll snag any WSW roadster tires I run across.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED: 28 WSW posted by james on 12/20/2004 at 7:48:25 AM
What sort of Waffenrad is that? Is it an old Roadster design, like a Kronan, or a newer design? I ask because germans use the term Waffenrad to denote army roadsters or similar bikes - the classic german roadster, sexless frame geometry, front plunger brake, lots of black parts. I did some internet searching on german waffenrads and come across some 1970s Puch Waffenrads that were fairly ordinary roadsters, not the heavy duty plunger brake models.

I imagine North Road cycles would be able to sell you some 28" tyres, I'm not sure where he gets them, from pashley or from the Schwalbe distributor, schwalbe does make white and reflective white wall tyres for city bicycles.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED: 28 WSW posted by jack on 12/20/2004 at 8:08:45 AM
James, according to your descriptions this Waffenrad is a mix of old and new. It is a ladies frame with black-painted and pinstriped rims, Favorit (german) chrome hubs w/coaster brk, plunger frt brake, full plastic chaincase. It appears to be 70's and I think it is a kind of nostalgic factory reissue of the original Waffenrad. I have seen a real Swiss Army bike and this Puch is not as heavily built. It does have a cool rifle thru Waffenrad decal which is probably trying to capitalize on the glory of the original.

I'll look into what Schwalbe has available.

   RE:WANTED:   28 posted by Kim on 12/20/2004 at 1:29:21 PM
They sell 28" blackwalls here at oldroads. Click on "PARTS" at the top of this page.
Part no: TI_28BW for $18.95

   Schwalbe in red posted by sam on 12/20/2004 at 3:03:48 PM
I got 28" all red (or natural rubber)tyres in Mexico.They were made in the far east buy Schwalbe.Looked great on Earley Roadsters---I found the Duros in WWs for 27" tyres but the WW was not even,ended up buying the gum schwalbes for the 27" bike---sam

   RE:Schwalbe in red posted by Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 5:21:22 PM
Sam - I got the same Duro 27s" - it's odd that you note that they were not even, as I've found Duro to be one of the best when it comes to accurate WWs.

For the sloppiest WWs, Kenda gets my vote.

Take care,


   RE:RE:Schwalbe in red posted by sam on 12/20/2004 at 5:58:02 PM
Maybe the Duros at the shop I went to were a bad batch.I have WW duros on several ballooner I have and they are very even.In 28" tyres I also like the V-Rubber brand with a thin red strip--kinda remind me of the muscle car tires of the late 60s,look good on my "modern" V-brake DL---sam

   RE:RE:RE:Schwalbe in red posted by Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 10:53:13 PM
Quite possibly a bad batch, yes. I might need them sometime in the future, so if you still have them, don't trash em yet!

I know the red-pinstripe effect that you are referring to - also a very popular addon on some musclebikes as well. You wouldn't happen to be the fellow with the Bentley Tourist, would you?

P.S.: On the original topic, I checked with American Cyclery on the WW tires in 28" - nothing.

Take care,


   RE:RE:RE:RE:Schwalbe in red posted by jack on 12/21/2004 at 2:15:36 AM
Looking thru a Wilson's Bike Sales catalog, I ran across gray wheelchair tires in 26x1-3/8 (590 bead dia same as Ral Superbe). At 7 bucks wholesale they might look nice on some bikes. How they perform is anybody's guess...and I have no idea of pressure rating.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Schwalbe in red posted by sam on 12/21/2004 at 9:54:20 PM
The Bentley is what we kustom guys call a Ghost restoration--a bike never built by the factory but should have been.It really rolls with those alum rims.And stops on a dime!Raleigh should have built a modern version DL.---sam

   RE:WANTED:   28 posted by Kevin T. on 1/4/2005 at 12:04:16 PM
I recently found a pair of nice Dunlop White Sprites on a mid sixties women's Raliegh, the odometer had 85 miles on it and these tires are nice but old

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2005 Raleigh Blue Streak - photo posted by: Kurt K on 12/20/2004 at 12:14:04 AM
Just a mockup of sorts I did tonight to make sure the Sports fork wouldn't ruin the geometry.



FOR SALE:   WWII-era EverReady battery lamps for sale posted by: David Poston on 12/19/2004 at 6:14:09 PM
I am proud to announce that I have the perfect solution to your lighting needs: battery lamps. For those of you who have been looking for an elegant and practical alternative to dynohubs, these dainty and proper lamps are just the ticket.

I recently acquired from England a box of NOS, WWII-era EverReady battery lamps, still sitting in their original brown cartons, with bulbs attached, ready for use. These are clearly wartime issue, as there is a white painted interior in place of a chrome reflector. With a little ingenuity and help from Paul Costin's article on the Pifco lamp conversion (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/catfoodrob/choppers/mechanic/pifcolamp.html), I have been able to get these things up and running. Materials required: battery box which accomodates two "C" batteries, a penny (1 cent), super glue, electrical tape, a small screw and nut, and bubble wrap. The conversion is amazingly simple and best of all . . . it works! The beam, which some might describe as a "faint yellow glow," is certainly nothing to sneer at, and is plenty enough for one to be seen by an oncoming car. Of course, it is nothing by today's standards, but it is probably no worse than your typical dynohub set-up.

Please go here to view some pics of these beauties, including a pic of one of these lamps in use on my '52 Raleigh Sports light roadster:


If you are interested in purchasing one of these lamps, please send $39.95 + shipping via paypal to pieces_ofthe_past@yahoo.com. For an additional $10, I can do the battery conversion for you, so that all you will need to supply is two "C" batteries. At this time, I have about 5 of these lamps available for sale.

When I get more time, I will post a step-by-step article showing how I did the battery conversion.

David Poston


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BROOKS bag review posted by: Drew on 12/18/2004 at 4:36:33 PM
Does anyone have one of he new Brooks 'D' saddle bags & are they as nice quality as they appear? It's a shame the price is so high at $80-$90....$35-40 would seem more reasonable. They look to be stamped "Brooks Engand" but one auction stated that they are made in China for Brooks? If it's China, these should be availible for much less since at China's labor rate of 50 cents an hour one can buy a complete sutecase set for $90.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BROOKS bag review posted by Steve on 12/19/2004 at 4:48:07 PM
I bought two black Brooks canvas bags from St John Cycles for 14 pounds each. They are quite nice: waterproofed canvas, artificial leather straps and hardware. They are large, hold quite a bit, and have two side pockets. I had them shipped to my son at Oxford and he brought them home; otherwise surface S/H from the UK would add another 8 pounds or so.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Message Categories posted by: jack on 12/17/2004 at 8:39:44 AM
There was a thread started a couple of weeks ago, either in this category or VINTAGE LWTS, proposing some changes in the Message Categories. Specifically, I suggested making ENGLISH ROADSTERS more inclusive and practical by eliminating ENGLISH. As I see it, Roadsters, regardless of country of origin, have more in common than differences due to their nationality. There is an example of a recent post re a German Roadster which ostensibly does not belong in this Category yet where else would it go? Anglophiles, esp in this Category, may take issue with my suggestion. Of course its up to the Listmeister to run the site as they please.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Message Categories posted by sam on 12/17/2004 at 7:59:27 PM
Regardless of orgin Roadsters of all makes have been talked about and welcomed on this list(at least for the past 3 or 4 years I been here)I think of the term "English" roadster more as a gernic term for this style of bike(built world over)In fact ,and I think I speak for most here,we would love to learn more of the German,Dutch,French,Itialian etc Roadsters--we just need the imput from those lands.--sam


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Message Categories posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/18/2004 at 12:11:26 AM
I would have to concur with Sam. To me, an "English Roadster" represents a design style and while most certainly the purest form of course is actually FROM England, the style in and of itself, is "Global". Probably more Roadster bicycles have been built and are possibly still in existance today than any other style. I guess the original desingers got it right, eh?

I posted the link to the German made Roadster because I found it very much of interest. While very much "English" in style and basic design, it certainly had an unique "personality".


Larry "Boneman" Bone