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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help me find my old bike!!! posted by: Andy Meyerson on 1/2/2004 at 12:21:08 AM
I had a Raliegh 20" red bike with a 3x2 twin stick shifter. The main shifter lever was chrome with three holes in it and a wood knob. The "banana" seat was super padded and red metallic. The tires were thin, unlike American Sting Ray bikes. I bought it new around 1965-1967, but I can't find any info on it at all. It seems that the Chopper uses a similar shift mechanism, but I think my bike is older. Can anyone tell me what kind of Raleigh my bike was? I'd love to research/find one. Thanks, Andy Meyerson

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help me find my old bike!!! posted by Jeff Bikeguy on 1/8/2004 at 4:23:56 AM
Sounds like a Rodeo or Fireball.

AGE / VALUE:   1951 Schwinn Traveler After the clean up posted by: marc on 1/1/2004 at 8:40:20 PM
Here it is. You guys wanted pics of it after I cleaned it up and here they are: http://groups.msn.com/SchwinnTalk/marcsfindafterthecleanup.msnw

It's a sweet bike. All the chrome cleaned up very well, except for the fenders which will need to be rechromed. The paint cleaned up nicely as well, a few scratches but its still shiny and its great for original. Anyone care to put a value on this bike? Also, the generator light set is a melas made in germany, is this original? The seat is a wright's, original? Also, someone asked if the brake levers were schwinn script, is this what would have originally come with this bike? The levers and brakes are all marked made in england but no maker. Could these be replacements? Back to the lights, the rear light is missing its internals, anyone know where I can find replacements? I also need a rear reflector for the fender, what kind of reflector is original?
Here is my technical question. It's a 51 aw sturmey 3 speed hub, the trigger says its for either a 3 or 4 speed hub. My question is, does it matter which gear is assigned to which ever position on the trigger? The shifter has 4 positions, B,L,N,H. If it does matter, which gear should be assigned to which postion? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1951 Schwinn Traveler After the clean up posted by David on 1/7/2004 at 11:48:38 AM
You might get better response at the Schwinn website; there's a discussion page there. I'd guess that the English brakes and saddle are actually original. Schwinn used English components frequently in the 50s (e.g. my tandem has English saddles, cranks, though German brakes). I doubt your light set is "original," but it may be an aftermarket accessory that was installed when the bike was first sold. The 3 or 4 speed shifter should work normally when you add a cable (it appears to be missing). The "bottom" choice won't work since the AW has no extra-low gear; only the "L N H" stops will work when it's adjusted properly. The rear brake cable routing has been strangely rearranged to allow, in NE's climate anyway, ice to form in that loop that will prevent the brake from releasing fully. Qs: What's the tire size marked on this? And does it have an aluminum alloy shell AW hub?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1951 Schwinn Traveler After the clean up posted by marc on 1/8/2004 at 5:35:15 AM
the gear cable is attatched, maybe you just cant see it in the pic. I thought it a little strange to have the rear brake cable routed by the chainguard. the tires are goodyear 26 1 3/8. How can I tell if the hub is alumninum, is it marked differently?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by: Leigh on 1/1/2004 at 7:31:10 PM
Has anybody any informatioin or pictures on the Rudge pathfinder bicycle?
I believe it is a 1954 version with an FW 4 speed sa hub
It has been painted with some hideous paint but the original transfers are still intact any ideas for removing this paint as the previous owner told me that he overpainted the original finish

Thankyou in advance for any information regarding the cycle


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by Peter on 1/4/2004 at 8:54:07 PM
Leigh - Looks like you got some information already from Scott, but in case you need more below is the spec. of the 1954 Humber Clipper, which was the equivalent model to the Rudge Pathfinder, model 128. I think one of the correct Rudge colours was Polychromatic Maroon, other than that I don't think the US spec. included the FM gear - other readers of this page will know better than I do. A fine cycle, the Rudge equivalent of the Raleigh Lenton Sports.

1954 Humber CLIPPER model no. 328
Specification from 1954 Humber catalogue
Frame: 21" and 23". Reynolds 531 tubing. 71 head and seat angles. Fully brazed-up with attractive cut-away lugs, pencil type seat stays, brazed-on pump pegs. Pulley attachment brazed-on on Gent’s Model.
Fork: Humber, taper round blades with solid ends.
Rims: 26" x 1¼” Endrick.
Tyres: Dunlop Speed
Cranks: 6½” fluted.
Gear: Sturmey-Archer 4-speed Medium Ratio (FM) with light alloy shell. Improved patent “Flick” Trigger Control with visual Gear Indicator.
Chainwheel: 46T detachable.
Handlebar: Maes pattern, light alloy, 15/16" dia. Adjustible stem, 2½” extension on Gent’s, 5" R.I. Silver Grey sleeve grips.
Brakes: Humber calipers.
Saddle: Brooks B.15 best butt leather, chromium plated chassis.
Chain: Renold “Elite”.
Mudguards: White celluloid detachable with mudflap.
Pedals: Gent’s Quill Pattern, Ladies 3½” rubber.
Equipment: Kitbag, inflator, reflector. Lamp bracket on right fork blade.
Finish: Choice of three finishes: Polychromatic Mediterranean Blue, Flamboyant Electric Blue, or Lustre Royal Carmine on Spra-bonderised rust-proof surface, with attractive constrasting transfers and lining to suit, usual bright parts chromium plated.
Extras: Patent Front Dynohub (GH6) £2.9.4

Price: £19.0.10, less gear: £16.7.9

regards, Peter.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by leigh on 1/6/2004 at 6:45:47 PM
Scott and Peter for your help i am now looking forward to starting work on it


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by: Leigh on 1/1/2004 at 7:31:10 PM
Has anybody any informatioin or pictures on the Rudge pathfinder bicycle?
I believe it is a 1954 version with an FW

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by Scott Ebersole on 1/4/2004 at 3:35:46 AM
Leigh,I sent the pixs again, let me know if you have any problem getting them

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by Scott Ebersole on 1/3/2004 at 8:34:43 AM
Leigh, I sent some pixs to you. Hope this helps.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   rudge pathfinder information posted by leigh on 1/3/2004 at 7:22:50 PM
thankyou Scott
Could you please resend them as they did not arrive due to a spelling problem with my email address

MISC:   Japanese Sports models posted by: David on 1/1/2004 at 5:56:53 PM
My Nishiki "Villager" was stolen; a nice Japanese Sports-style bike w/alloy rims, bars, stem, fenders, etc. I'd like to find another one like it. Can anyone provide some makers and model names to look for? I think Miyata and Fuji (and probably all other Japanese makers) made bikes like this, but I need some keywords! Thanks to all.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 Frames posted by: Mike in TX on 12/31/2003 at 4:42:35 AM
While looking over photos of DL-1's/'Tourists' in the database here, and on RB, it seems that there is some variation in the frame angles. Most that I see appear to have parallel seat/head tubes (both very slack), while others seem to have almost 'Sports' geometry. Granted, it's hard to tell from pictures, but did Raleigh tighten up the angles at some time? Does the 22" gents differ much from the 24" frame? Just wondering.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: DL-1 Frames posted by jack on 12/31/2003 at 10:57:48 AM
Mike, I also mentioned a few weeks back that the ladies fork does not have as much sweep as the gent's fork. So it would not surprise me if your observation is correct although the DL-1s haven't changed that much over the last century. As far as frame angles, I have both 22" and 24" gent's (late-'70s) and I'll compare in day or so and post my observations/measurements.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: DL-1 Frames posted by jack on 12/31/2003 at 10:58:19 AM
Mike, I also mentioned a few weeks back that the ladies fork does not have as much sweep as the gent's fork. So it would not surprise me if your observation is correct although the DL-1s haven't changed that much over the last century. As far as frame angles, I have both 22" and 24" gent's (late-'70s) and I'll compare in day or so and post my observations/measurements.

AGE / VALUE:   Just bough an old Truimph Bicycle/ not sure what's the worth posted by: Derrick Mikkelsen on 12/30/2003 at 8:28:08 PM
Hi, if anyone could lend some expertise, I just picked up an older looking Triumph, that seems to be in good condition, but I'm not sure how to find out the age, or what it's worth. I would appreciate any help. Not even sure if it's considered a roadster bicycle or not. Would appreciate any feed back. Thanks, Derrick

AGE / VALUE:   Drum brake on Ebay posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/30/2003 at 1:44:45 AM
Don't know if anyone's looking for one of these, but I thought it rather neat!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Drum brake on Ebay posted by Stacey on 12/30/2003 at 9:10:13 PM
Yeah, but look who's selling it! Wouldn't buy O2 from him if he was the last breath on earth!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Drum brake on Ebay posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/31/2003 at 10:37:26 AM
Really? I was unaware that the sellor was of a nefarious character....



   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Drum brake on Ebay posted by mr on 12/31/2003 at 1:05:55 PM
Wow! 78 negs! Seventy Eight....Who is this anyway?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Drum brake on Ebay posted by Warren on 12/31/2003 at 2:42:10 PM
I feel the same way...these hucksters always post items for absurd opening values....they troll for suckers endlessly. Very full of themselves as well...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Drum brake on Ebay posted by Tom on 12/31/2003 at 5:37:59 PM
I tried buying something from this guy and asked what shipping cost was to Canada before bidding. He wanted $22.00 for shipping. I did not bid and got the same item for less on ebay and was charged actual shipping cost of $8.00. He is not on my good list.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Drum brake on Ebay posted by J M Vernooy on 1/1/2004 at 5:32:32 PM
Let me first say that I am not in any way connected with this guy. But he appears to be running a retail business. If he is running a retail business then he has higher costs, especially in regards to time spent to ship items. Shipping of $22 when you found the item for less and with shipping for $8 does make his $22 shipping seem high. I agree with that. But it may be justified. If he had to pay an employee to pack and ship the item or if he is the owner of a business and packed and shipped the item himself he spent more than someone who is doing that from his home in his spare time.

This is just what has kept me from initiating selling of rare or vintage bicycle leftovers through eBay at the store where I work. There is the time to list and then the time to pack and ship.

I would have to charge aproximately $5 to $6 just for the packing, labeling, and the paperwork to make sure anyone working there could keep track of where the order was in the process as I'm not there any more than 40 of the 48 hours that the store is open per week and I am not always the one free to answer the phone. So if the actual shipping was $5 we would have to add another $5 for the time taken to process the order that would make the total shipping and handling $10. I'm reluctant to do that. It might look like a rip-off to someone. And my boss would be looking at it from the side of "Are you sure we are making any money?".

So a small supply of vintage, and rare stuff just sits there waiting for someone to come in to the store to buy it. It would probably sell faster on eBay. But our reputation might suffer and we might actualy lose money by selling that way even if we sell for a higher price and ship for a higher price than some other eBay sellers.

So I have kept selling on eBay an at home hobby. I don't have to justify time spent. I can charge only the exact shipping price that I pay.

Now as to the 78 negatives this seller has on eBay transactions; look he also has 5808 positives. That's less than two negatives for every 100 positives, about 1.3% I calculate it to be. He's not perfect, but that's not a bad average. I've got 39 positives and no negatives but I'm not a business and I don't even have a per hundred average yet.
That said, you should always know if the shipping will be actual cost or if not then how much. And buyer beware. Be carefull to get the best deal that you can. Many legal ways of doing business may still not meet your preferences.
Sorry about the length of this.
Wishing everyone a happy and safe New Year,

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Drum brake on Ebay posted by Warren on 1/2/2004 at 12:23:30 AM
What is at issue is not whether he is entitled to a decent profit or not. There are many people making a similar living on ebay and it is easy to distinguish between who is an honest broker and who is looking to burn buyers who are easily taken in by dishonest and/or exaggerated descriptions of goods...these guys do that on a regular basis.

Monitor Hilary Stones excellent auctions of vintage goods and you will see honest descriptions of excellent goods with stated reserves. He always ships at actual costs and he does very well. Mind you he doesn't sell low end garbage using grand superlatives about how great this AW hub is or how wonderful he is personally. Again, I find these sellers distasteful and would not bid on their items even if the price was right. I make similar decisions with most consumer products I buy. I too have my own business.

I also concede that negatives are truly no indication of the integrity of a buyer or seller. It is too easy for a flake to give you poor feedback out of spite or for retaliation.

Rant off...Happy New Year!

AGE / VALUE:    Amazed, even now after all the years and all the bikes posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 12/30/2003 at 12:45:39 AM
Regarding the Norman post below.

I only know of Norman brand bicycles from the Raleigh made Norman bikes.

This one that he's asking about is a rod brake model. I never have seen a rod brake Norman bike before and I don't know if it is a Raleigh or not.
I cannot believe all the diffrent variations and all the different ways the various names were used.

Strange things keep popping up.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    Amazed, even now after all the years and all the bikes posted by sam on 12/30/2003 at 2:16:09 AM
Norman Cycles LTD. The story of Norman is the story of two brothers , F.G.&C.T. Norman,who transformed a small plating and enamelling firm into one of the major cycle manufacturers of the U.K........1920 started making cycle frames........Compleat cycles by 1935.......Now part of the B.C.C.(1958) from the book"the British Cycle Corp. LTD.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    Amazed, even now after all the years and all the bikes posted by Jeff R on 12/30/2003 at 2:27:09 AM
I have a 1954 Norman which is a Phillip's-made bicycle. It has cable brakes and 26 x 1-3/8" wheels. The chain wheel has the Norman Knights stamped into it. It definately is not a Raleigh-made bike. It's a nice riding bike, as are all the early 50's English 3-Speeds! There was one on ebay recently #2211292366.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    Amazed, even now after all the years and all the bikes posted by Chris on 1/1/2004 at 6:00:17 AM
Norman was made by Phillips, not Raleigh. I was wrong!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Norman Popular? posted by: Mark on 12/29/2003 at 11:30:34 PM
I've found a Norman Popular with rod brakes. I'd like to know where to find resources on these models. Thanks

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Norman Popular? posted by sam on 12/30/2003 at 5:50:49 PM
Interesting Norman site--mainly motorcycles http://www.normancycles.co.uk/

AGE / VALUE:   $1200 DL-1? posted by: jack on 12/24/2003 at 12:57:44 AM
There's a description of a DL-1 on ebay stating that when DL-1s were discontinued in the mid-80's their retail price was $1200.
I figured they wouldn't be cheap but $1200, can anyone confirm or correct this price?

   RE:AGE / VALUE: $1200 DL-1? posted by Warren on 12/24/2003 at 4:09:34 AM
I can't say I ever saw a DL-1 price tag but $1200 bought an very nice bike in the late 80's....that assertion is hooey!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: $1200 DL-1? posted by Chris on 12/24/2003 at 4:48:24 AM
I bought one of the very last 7 to leave Nottingham. This was wharehouse stock after tyhey stoped making these.

It was the Royal Roadster by then.

All told, the bike and the shipping /transport/ customs stuff, the bike was about 700-750.00 in there.

These have sold for that much but not by the makers no, not ever.

The bike, new was about 178.00 in the states in the late 1970's.

I picked up a near mint 1955 model Superbe 28 and I only gave $675.00 for that.

Bopping around in this over the years I have seen these go for free at the kerb to hundreds and yes, over 1000.00 by some who think that it is a collectors item and all that.

That amount is too much to offer for these.

Unless.... it is a rare Humber or Sunbeam. Yes, Sunbeam.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: $1200 DL-1? posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/24/2003 at 4:54:05 AM
More eBay stuff n'nonsense!

My dad bought his DL-1 from Cycle & Sports, Washington, D.C., around 1984. He paid, as I recall, $495 for the machine. A lot of money then (a Raleigh Competition GS sold for not much more) but it was never anything like $1200.00!

We went cycling together a few times and once hooked up with another DL-1 owner and his girlfriend (who had a Sports).. back then it was most uncommon to see 3 DL-1s together! Even then, they attracted attention.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   $1200 DL-1? posted by Mark R. on 12/29/2003 at 1:27:45 PM
I think they may have mis-understood that as "todays" dollars, which would be about right. They sold for $125 here in the late sixties. In the mid seventies, if you could still get someone to order one, they were $400.
I have one like brand new that I bought for $450.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   $1200 DL-1? posted by P.C. Kohler on 12/29/2003 at 5:55:17 PM
Perhaps true. But DL-1s were always quite pricey especially by the late '70s in comparision with other Raleighs. c. 1974 a 10-speed Sprite 27 cost $109.95 from my Raleigh dealer (the late lamented Towpath Cycles of Georgetown) and the DL-1 about $125. The price went through the roof amid the inflationary spiral of the '70s and a devalued dollar. One of the reasons is that derailleurs are cheap, dirt cheap to manufacture and S-A gears were not. It's this price difference that really drove the bike boom towards 10-speed "racers" and away from the 3 and 5-speed hub gear bikes that were (and still are) far more practical for MOST people's riding habits. We were told that derailleurs were "cool" but we also knew they were cheap!

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by: paul viner on 12/23/2003 at 9:38:35 AM
does anyone sell or make decals for a 1973 RALEIGH SPORTS.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/23/2003 at 10:40:15 AM

I've not availed myself of their services (yet), but I believe others here have. Presumably, they ship anywhere?

Good luck!

Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by Tim Powell on 12/23/2003 at 11:08:35 AM
Try http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NICK_AT_LLOYDS/decals.htm

I have bought plenty of decals from him with no problems

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   decals posted by GENE on 12/23/2003 at 1:16:46 PM
looking for 1970-71 three speed RALIEGH superbee decals

MISC:   To scrap or to restore? posted by: Phil Deaves on 12/22/2003 at 11:26:00 AM
I've just bought this and had it delivered.


I justified it as being a source of spares (I am told that the value of the Sturmey hub alone could be more than the total I paid, including delivery). However, I know nothing about Triumph cycles. Is this a Raleigh brand? The brake blocks have Raleigh moulded into them.

Should I break the bike up for oher projects? Or would that be destroying the last survivor, or something no quite so extreme, but worth keeping none the less?

I'd like to check, before I do something potentially terrible!

The Triumph rides well, by the way. Pumped the tyres, rear brake was a bit sharp (skidded by accident), but I've already sorted that out, cleaned by previous owner so little to do. However, as I said, it's for spares really!

Thanks for your thoughts, and enjoy the festive season.


   RE:MISC:   To scrap or to restore? posted by GMS on 12/22/2003 at 12:17:50 PM
Restore for sure.....if a bike is in that good of shape it deserves to live. I have seen much worse be brought back. Its probally a good daily rider with a tune up. I looked at the pics, the paint is great. Now everything depends on the value, the rear hub would suggest its an 1980 model??? If so thats not relatively old, but still its old, and in great shape for the age of it. I would have to not scrap it if i was you, unless you really need something to get another bike going, then you could temporaly take something off until you found another one ;)

   RE:RE:MISC:   To scrap or to restore? posted by GMS on 12/22/2003 at 12:19:56 PM
BTW these days they sell Triumphs at Walmart......I have no idea about that bike tho, may be made by Raleigh sience its from Nottingham, like my Phillips, and other bikes like Robin Hood.

   RE:MISC:   To scrap or to restore? posted by MR on 12/22/2003 at 2:37:45 PM
No, don't break it up. It is in good shape. It's an older english bike, that is getting ever rarer every day. Keep good old bikes together, and use parts as you find them. The only time you should break a bike up is if it is unridable/unrepairable for one reason or another,like a broken frame say.

   RE:MISC: To scrap or to restore? posted by Warren on 12/22/2003 at 2:45:29 PM
It's a Raleigh...too nice a condition to part out. The rusty bits should clean up well. Find a true beater to part out, otherwise you're just "robbing Peter to pay Paul", as the saying goes.

   RE:RE:MISC: To scrap or to restore? posted by Phil Deaves on 12/22/2003 at 3:10:19 PM
Thanks for the replies (so far: if anyone else wants to contribute, I'd like to hear your views, too!). The consensus at the moment sems to be "keep it", which is what I suspected it would be. The hard bit now would be a) finding storage space, and b) explaining why I'm paying for more "spare" bits when I've "already got a good scrap bike"!

I confess that I am a hoarder, so personally am happy to say "it's too good to break", but you know how it is. I'll cling on to it as long as I can find appropriate bits elsewhere. Better still, try not to damage anything, so I won't need the bits!


   RE:RE:RE:MISC: To scrap or to restore? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/23/2003 at 12:31:56 AM
Definitely a KEEPER! It's in darn good shape from what I can tell. Also, note that the later "Raleighs" that were sold in the US have a MUCH cheesier chainguard than that one. Heck, if I had to venture a guess as to it's age (without having the date on the hub) just from the picture, I would have guessed mid to early 60's... or possibly older even.

If you've not seen the many articles that are kicking around on this site as well as the Vintage Raleigh sites attendant hereto, bear in mind that these bikes were BUILT and built to LAST. Not to mention, having class and being quite comfy to boot.

If it were mine, I would certainly keep it. And that from a feller that has no less than 12 Roadsters in the basement at this very moment.....

Good luck with it!


Larry "Boneman" Bone

WANTED:   Robin Hood Decals posted by: Ed on 12/22/2003 at 4:45:36 AM
Does anyone know or have in their posession a set of decals for a 1969 Robin Hood men's bicycle? I need the ones for the seat tube, rear fender and chain guard. Well, actually, a complete set would be best, I guess. I tried to clean this bike up after purchasing it at a thrift store ($10!) and the decals just washed away! Thankfully, I took before and after photos with a digital camera so I know the correct placement of the decals. The bike looks like new now, well, that is if it did not come with decals. :-( If anyone can help, please feel free to e-mail me or just post your thread here. Thanks.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   70's Viscount Aerospace GP posted by: Peter on 12/20/2003 at 6:16:43 PM
Hey Guys,
Anyone instersted in an Early 70's Viscount Aerospace GP ?
It has the Shimano Titlist Derailiuers, Shimano Brakes and is a ( surprise! ) 21" frame.
This one needs a little work, its needs to be cleaned, tuned-up and tire replacement, of course.
Its gotta go!
Make an offer, please e-mail me....Jubbley76@yahoo.com