MISC:   SA S-5 hub adjustments 67 Sprite posted by: Joe M on 9/17/2005 at 3:42:51 AM
Mark, thanks for the tip about the spring on the lefet side of the S-5 hub on my Sprite (from earlier post below).
I found an original AW chain from a muscle bike that used a spring and threaded section, I added this to the existing setup for now, and it did do away with the neutral problem.
I was also wandering if there was a simple way to eliminate the center detent in the left trigger? When you shift up on the left trigger, you have to be careful to make certain it clicks all the way to what would be 3rd position, if not, when the shift occurs, you go from pedaling to a drop into neutral. It needs the full travel from 1 to 3 position on the trigger, and if your not careful, you can shift and not be locked all the way up into that last position, I've done this a couple of times, and it's no fun. I don't shift under full load, but just when you feel it make the shift, and step into the pedals and there's nothing there, it catches a bit, then slips.
If I make sure and really push the shifter up hard until I am sure it's locked in, it's fine. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to grind or round off the second detent notch on a trigger used for this purpose? I am also wondering if there's a travel issue with the trigger vs the adapted Shimano belcrank? It's adjusted so that it locks nicely into low, but barely releases enough to upshift the right side? I tried backing the belcank off a turn, but this loses the low shift. I may have to swap in an original belcrank.

I did find a set of the black handled levers, but they seem like they would be a bit bulky, and the left lever has no positive detent? just a friction lever,like on an old road bike.
I took did some basic maintainence, and took this bike out for about a ten mile run tonight, ladies frame or not, it's comfortable, fast, geared right, and solid. I think it's here to stay. I give it the full going over when I get the chance, and maybe add a pair of saddle baskets, and it will become a good local runner. (Especially with the gas prices these days).

Does anyone have a good source for original style brake pads, the John Bull pads on this are a bit dried out and hard. I could use standard Weinmann pads, but they're a lot smaller and look out of place. The one's on it stop ok, but not great. Besides, they look like new, and would be better off on a bike that will get ridden a little less.


   RE:MISC: SA S-5 hub adjustments 67 Sprite posted by Mark Stonich on 9/19/2005 at 7:03:39 AM
Oops! I hadn't realized that all of the dual trigger bikes owned by friends and myself have the dual chain type hubs. So none need the spring in the system, or the Shimano bellcrank. The amount of cable travel between 2nd and 3rd is just the amount needed to shift the left side of either type hub, at least with the SA bellcrank.

I can't say if introducing the spring into the linkage would mess everything up, or if it’s a leverage difference between the bellcranks. (I suspect that if the problem is with the spring, then it's too weak.) The bikes that I know of that have the spring & Shimano conversion all use friction shifters. I use thumb shifters, but a friend has a downtube friction shifter mounted on his top tube. Bar ends or stem shifters should work as well.

The nice thing about using triggers with the dual chain models, and thumbshifters with the bellcrank models is that with whichever type you are riding the bike is in ultra-wide mode when the lever is "Up".

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/'hadland/6triggers.pdf Shows how to take AW triggers apart to modify them. No reason I can see that you couldn't remove the detent. BUT, getting, or making, replacement rivets could be a problem if you don't have a lathe.

Look at the bright side! If the problem is an incompatibility between the shifter and the bellcrank, then the previous owner wouldn't have gotten it working right either. It's probably why you got it for $10.


   RE:MISC:   SA S-5 hub adjustments 67 Sprite posted by Joe M on 9/20/2005 at 4:39:24 AM
The spring idea actually made it a lot better, it allows the trigger to be pushed all the way without binding, (or simply not clicking into the lowest detent). The spring is from a 3 speed muscle bike set up for a SA AW hub and top tube sport shifter. I simply used the adjusting stud and spring part, and discarded the chain and shaft portion. The spring is pretty strong, you can't stretch it by hand.
I can probably round off the 2nd gear notch without disassembling the trigger, I have some pretty small die grinder bits made for intricate engraving. If not the rivets should be pretty simple to make. I also have considered trying another brand trigger, I have a few Shimano and Sachs triggers here, but I hate to add any more non British parts. It looks better with the two matching triggers, the only other set up I have run accrossed was a single friction lever and right hand trigger combo, but I would think that the friction lever would have to be pretty tight to hold the low postion, the spring tension is pretty strong, at least a lot more than the average derailleur.
As far as travel, I got the best results with the cable set pretty tight in the lowest position of the trigger, (without the spring), in this setting, it just makes the low detent, and all the way up into the high detent, allows it to shift completely, in the middle position, I it grind in and out of gear. I tryed to use just 2 ranges, but I either had high or low only, and two neutral or skipping positions. Comparing the Shimano belcrank with an SA version, the Shimano does have a lower ratio than the SA. I found an original SA belcrank, but would rather save it for a nicer project as long as the Shimano one is working ok, it's just a matter of getting used to it. Another rider would need to be instructed on how to shift this though.
I've been riding it for over a week, and have gotten pretty used to the shift procedure, the gear ratios of this bike seem about perfect for this area, no steep hills, and not too many long straight runs. In the highest range, it realy can get going good, probably faster than I should having not yet really gone over this bike. I did get caught in the rain two days ago, I was glad to be on a not so mint bike, as well as one with fenders, but quickly remembered how poor old dried out John Bull brake pads work when wet. I do intend to completely tear this apart and give it a good once over, but I haven't had the time yet. Some fresh lube and maybe some new bearings here and there, and I might be even more surprised with this bike.
My biggest change will be some new tires and brake pads.
Does anyone here know of a good true sized 26 x 1 3/8" tire? All of the one's I've seen lately look more like 1 1/4" width, they look lost on the Raleigh rims. I am afraid that they might lead to rim dammage being so small.
Most of my nicer bikes have older tires, many are new old stock ones or clean used matched sets, but I hate to wear out a nice set of original tires on a daily beater.


   RE:RE:MISC: SA S-5 hub adjustments 67 Sprite posted by Mark Stonich on 9/21/2005 at 4:30:49 PM
For removing the middle notch I'd try a mini cutoff wheel in a Dremel. But I figure I would get so much debris in the shifter I'd end up dismantling it anyway.

Friction shifters for the left side work well for me. I usually use Sun Race shifters to see how many people catch the connection. None of my S5s seem to have an overly strong spring on the left.

I have a few NOS original bellcranks, but am also saving them for better bikes.

Try sanding the glaze off the brake pads. I also use Kool Stop Salmon pads, but nothing works all that well on wet chrome. I seem to remember that years ago Fibrax made leather pads for wet riding on steel rims.

QBP (wholesale only) carries Sun CR-18 rims in 3 speed size (ETRTO 590) in 32-36 and 40 hole drilling. I'd have them on any bike that saw a lot of wet riding.

For a fat tire I really like the Kendas. I have some great Kenda gumwalls but I think the gumwalls that are being sold these days are smaller than the blackwalls.


   RE:MISC:   SA S-5 hub adjustments 67 Sprite posted by Joe M on 9/24/2005 at 11:33:42 PM
The Dremel cutoff wheel sound like a good idea, I'll try it on a junk trigger first.
I forgot about the Fibrax pads, but the one's I have here are slightly shorter, and look to be some sort of fiber and rubber. I have tried the Kool Stop pads before on a road bike, they did grab well, but didn't last very long at all, and gave a real spongy feel at the brake levers.
Do you have a source for alloy 26 x 1 3/8" rims? Maybe a link? Every link I have is quite expensive. I am not so much interested in them for this bike, but for another project.
I have some of the Kenda tires, in blackwall, but they are the one's that look so narrow compared to the original tires. The Kenda tires also vary from batch to batch it seams. I had some that were wider a few years ago. I have a set of them on a set of Araya steel rims on another bike, and the tire fully inflated is not as wide as the bead of the rim. The Araya rims are very similar to the old Dunlop rims. I do have some new older stock Carlysle Rubber tires, that are full size, but would prefer to save those for a better bike, besides, they are probably a bit too hard to use every day, a little due to age, and the fact that they weren't the best wet traction tire back then either.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Question to Chris... posted by: Kurt K. on 9/17/2005 at 12:46:45 AM
Would have emailed this to you Chris, but I don't have your email address:

Have you any handlebars & stems '70 or '71 Schwinn Continental? Desperately looking for a nice AVA bar and stem for my '71 Continental before the November 2nd cycle show down here.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Question to Chris... posted by ckokkinis@comcast.net on 9/17/2005 at 2:56:22 AM
Sorry, I do not have these parts.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Coffee Paint Color posted by: Craig on 9/16/2005 at 3:46:40 PM
Does anyone have a secret recipie for creating the Raleigh "coffee" color from available hobby paint. I've got a couple of Raleighs I'm refurbishing in that color and could benefit from any starting tips someone can give me. Thanks!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Coffee Paint Color posted by Joe M on 9/17/2005 at 5:24:29 AM
I haven't tried it yet, but someone told me that Ford Pinto brown was almost an exact match. I would guess from about 1975 or so. You may still be able to get it in Duplicolor or Plasticote spray cans.
Any good automotive pait store should be able to mix you an exact match if nothing else, some can even put it in a spray can.
The biggest problem will be finding decals to match, unlees you already have a source?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Coffee Paint Color posted by Dick in FL on 9/17/2005 at 5:27:17 AM
Check out the "Dark Red" and "Dark Red Metallic" for FoMoCo at your local auto store.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Coffee Paint Color posted by Craig on 9/18/2005 at 4:21:50 AM
Thanks for the tips. Both bikes (one Sprite and a Folder) just need a couple of touchups. The Sprite is actually NOS (never built never ridden) and just had a couple of storage nicks. The Folder is in perfect condition except for one small wear mark on the chainguard. Not really enough to justify a paint match in either case. Thanks again.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by: Mike on 9/16/2005 at 1:54:08 AM
Hi my Raleigh just returned from the shop and they refused to do anything to fix my fork. The issue is this:

I hit a pothole. When I later examined the bike, the front wheel (the top part where it crosses between the fork blades) favors the left hand fork (when looking from the front) aka the right hand fork looking down as you ride. The tired is not quite rubbing on the inside of that fork blade. The wheel turns freely but the wheel seems to favor that one side and the rim sorta rubs on the brake shoe on that side. The wheel is true so I am guessing the fork blade or blades have to be moved a bit. How do I do this so the wheel is centered between the blades? I don't have access to a special shop with special tools right now. How would this be fixed? Thanks for the help.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by Gordon on 9/16/2005 at 1:20:44 PM
I don't know if this would work, but it might. Take a piece of pipe or a 2 x 2 about 3 or 4 feet long and fasten it to the bent fork leg with several stainless steel hose clamps. Then by lifting on the pipe, CAREFULLY try and straighten the fork. Remember it didn't take much to bend it, it shouldn't take much to bend it back. Good luck. If you totally screw it up, I can probably provide you with a replacement.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by Kurt K. on 9/16/2005 at 1:38:10 PM
Also check the dropouts for alignment. You can bend the dropouts if nessesary with an adjustable wrench.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by Ralph on 9/16/2005 at 2:57:29 PM
That must have been some pothole. If the fork is bent, you'll need to get with someone who has alignment gages to properly fix it. Since you're posting on this forum, I'll assume it's a roadster. So the steel fork should be repairable. Park made a tool that clamps the fork in place and includes a gage for straightening it. It's not real surprising that the bike shop wouldn't help you. I think that repairing this kind of damage is kind of becoming a lost art. Most bike shops would be more interested in replacing the damaged part instead of fixing it. I think that might be why Park doesn't make the tool anymore.

If by any chance you live in Cleveland, this is a fairly easy repair. I could help you if you contact me offline.

Good luck,

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by Mike on 9/16/2005 at 3:55:13 PM
Is it easier to straighten or get a new fork that is straight? I haven't been able to locate a Bronze green sports fork for the 23 inch adult frame so far. I assumed straightening would be the only way simply because I haven't seena single one for the large frame size in the right color. Any thoughts?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by Mike on 9/16/2005 at 6:35:49 PM
As usual Kurt's knowledge bested anything I could come up with. =) I took an adjustable wrench and clamped onto the little prongs at the ends of the fork blades. A look at the blades themselves revealed they weren't bent back or the like but that the little prongs at the ends of the blades bent somewhat. I used the wrench to pry them back into center. It took awhile since I was doing this by eye and I missed center a couple of times but after a couple tries I think I got it. I hope this holds for the basic smooth trail rides. I have no intention of bicycling on Massachusetts aka Moon Avenue again. Thanks for the help.

However if anyone does have a 23 inch frame bronze green fork, let me know. I suppose I could always use a back up in case I hit another crater and things go worse.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by Joe M on 9/17/2005 at 3:40:24 AM
Any older bike shop should have a fork straightening jig, but many refuse to do the repair these days due to liability.
I couldn't find anyone to straighten one of mine a few years back, after some prodding at the shop that refused to do the repair for me, I bought it for my own use. It's been the best $50 I have spent yet.
Many of the newer shops may not even have ever seen one of the Park Fork jigs, they are no longer made, and bring a premium when on eBay. If you run acrossed one, buy it, they sold for around $150 new, and I've seen them go up to $250 used on eBay. I have the complete frame and fork repair set, next I want the headtube reamers and facers to repair worn or damaged frames. You would be surprised at how much a minor ajustment to true a fork can improve handling and ride.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by jack on 9/17/2005 at 5:45:43 AM
I have a 23" Sprite frameset in very faded bronze green. Fork steerer is 8" and eyeballing fork it appears straight and frame is not damaged. If you want it, fork for $20 incl shipping or frame and fork for $25 plus shipping from Calif.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bent Fork Help posted by Dick in FL on 9/17/2005 at 6:02:40 AM
Mike's problem turned out to be in the dropouts, but bent fork blades are far more common. My procedure, which has worked on 3 bikes, requires removal of the wheel, fender, and brake caliper. (... and a *steel* fork of course)

If the the bike pulls to the right when ridden no-hands, shove a rebar into the bottom of the head tube and pull the right blade out from its end. Try for a permanent deformation of about 2 mm. This is easier to accomplish if a friend holds the rebar while you pull on the fork blade. Now the left blade must be displaced the same amount and in the same direction. This one is more difficult because the blade and the rebar need to be pushed toward each other. Again, try to line up an assistant. Test ride and repeat, if necessary, with a smaller increment. Obviously, there is some trial and error here, but my experience has been very good. Success within minutes! Note: all of my repairs have been on forks that were bent laterally. Final note and NB: Ironically, this procedure will correct a steering problem that is caused by something other than a bent fork.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by Mike on 9/17/2005 at 6:15:53 PM
Do the sprite and sports forks interchange? I am interested in the fork alone if they are, assuming the fork isn't all rusted out and it in usable shape.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by Warren on 9/18/2005 at 3:39:23 AM
Look on ebay right now for an NOS forl in copper coffee colour...
item 6560909201

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Bent Fork Help posted by jack on 9/18/2005 at 5:14:38 AM
Dimpled fork I have is off 23" bronze green Sprite, same as Sports. No rust (visible), no dents, no bents, just paint chip and fade. If you send me 20, I'll send you fork. If you don't like fork, send back to me and I'll send you 20 minus shipping which I figure is about 5 bucks (or 2 latte's here in N.CA).

FOR SALE:   50's Hercules Tourist posted by: jack on 9/15/2005 at 8:04:37 AM
I am selling my late-50's pre-Raleigh 21" men's Hercules Tourist. It is 98% original and in very nice shape. 26" wheels, chrome fenders and chainguard, BB oiler, original Brooks, Hercules 3-sp hub. Asking $225 or BO but will NOT ship. Located in N Calif but can deliver to Socal. Pics sent upon request. I would never sell this bike but its too small for me! I went all thru this bike and it needs NOTHING!