MISC:†††Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by: Joe M on 9/19/2005 at 2:33:32 AM
I came acrossed what looks to be a 1962 Raleigh Sports today going by the hub date, it looks pretty decent, but I was wondering if the chrome fenders could be original? The fenders are indentical to the painted version I am used to, but in chrome. The fenders stays are the same, but just bare polished aluminum. The rest of the bike is normal, but also missing it's chainguard, so I need another dark brown chainguard, this is the second one of these I found, both the same size and color that's missing it's chain guard.
I can't find any catalog pics of one with chrome fenders?

   RE:MISC:†††Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/19/2005 at 6:44:18 PM
Sure is original! Raleigh at this time was suffering from Hercules-Phillips itis after being bought up by TI. Raleighs were viewed as staid and stuffy so their US market products endured all sorts of indignities including "colourful" paint jobs (there's that "Sunset Yellow" again!), chromed mudguards, icky American style chainguards, white plastic handlebar grips and colour-matched saddle bags. Etc. Etc. There was also a run of Raleigh Sports with those god awful SA twist grip shifters that Hercules had. So for about two years, you had Raleighs that looked like whored up Hercs. By 1965 things had settled down to Sports as we know them in Bronze Green, Coffee and Black. Common sense and good taste always prevails.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:MISC:†††Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by Joe M on 9/20/2005 at 2:52:33 AM
What years did the chrome mud guards span? All the way to '65?
I have a couple of bikes with the twist grip shifters, I hate them too, it's too easy to accidently shift or knock out of gear.
I haven't yet seen a Sunset yellow version, but I do wish mine was your basic black. I think that black is the classiest looking of the Raleighs.
The rear fender has a couple of dents on the left side, which may come out pretty decent, and the chrome on the fenders is in great shape. If I can find a brown chainguard, I can make this bike complete.
Another problem, every one of these I find has a black Brooks mattress saddle, I have yet to find one with it's original B72 saddle. I had one on an old Dunelt, years ago, and thought it was one of the most comfortable saddles I have ever ridden on. What is more likely, that someone swapped them out for the padded version, or did some come with the mattress saddle? Again, none of the catalogs seem to show the vinyl mattress saddle.


   RE:RE:MISC:†††Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by P.C. Kohler on 9/20/2005 at 3:47:49 PM
Really? I thought most of these c. 1962-65 tarted up Raleighs had those classic two-toned Brooks mattress saddles rather than Brooks B72s. The saddle colours (red and white or yellow and white) were matched by the saddle bag. And on these machines I think the pedal blocks were white too.

Now, I think old fuddy-duddys like the undersigned could, if you insisted, get a "proper" Sports during this time in black or green with the leather saddle etc. But the chromed mudguard jobs definately date from the TI acquisition of Raleigh and reflected TI's marketing via Hercules and Phillips more than did Raleigh. After this, TI left everything to Raleigh. You could still get tarted up three-speeds but they were badged as Hercs, Sunbeams etc. rather than Raleighs, Rudges or Humbers.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:MISC:†††Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by Joe M on 9/21/2005 at 4:55:00 AM
I went to Retro Raleighs, and the '62 catalog lists two versions of the Sports? One is a DL22 and the other, an S22, which reads "Basically the same structural qualities as the deluxe except for economies in fittings, ie: Saddle, Tires, Rims that are reflected in the lower price". (After seeing this, it explains a couple of Raleigh Sports I have with Dunlop rims). The sketch above it shows what appears to be a two tone saddle.
I have yet to find one with a B-72, and only a couple ladies models with B66 saddles, which were pretty trashed. The saddle I am used to seeing on these here is the all black one, like the one shown in Kurt K's pic of his '74 Sprite above. All of the two tone seats I have are on non-Raleigh branded bikes, like Robin Hood, Triumph, Sunbeam etc. I talked to a local shop owner that used to sell these, and he doesn't remember seeing many leather saddles either. I have seen a few ladies models with B-67 saddles, but none on any of the men"s bikes. I had just figured that the men's bikes had seen more use or abuse and had had a saddle change over the years.

I have two almost identical 60's Sports, both brown, both with hub dates in 1962, and 1967 both are dark brown, with the only difference is that one has chrome fenders. Both of these have the all black vinyl saddle with rivets on the side. One of them came to me with a large Brooks branded rear saddle bag, which looks like the leather version in appearance and size, but is a textured grain, simulated leather, plastic bag. The Brooks logo is molded into the flap of the bag in the center. That bike came from a yard sale, and with a moth eaten brochure that looks like the 1962 one at RetroRaleighs.com. Along with that, was a hand written purchase receipt for $116.50 from a NJ bike shop dated 12/67. When I found it, it was chained to a tree with a "For Sale" sign that read $20. It was covered heavily with field dust and cob webs, and the guy who was there said it had been hanging in the barn for 20 years or more. I couldn't even tell what color it was it was so dirty, there was rope wound up in the rear hub, and both tires were flat. I told him at best I'd could use it for parts, and he took my $5 offer. After a good cleaning, it came up pretty nice, the two worst points were the seat post decals are wrinkled and torn, and the front forks have been repainted, they match, but show bronze green chips.

How do you tell a DL22 from an S22? According to the 1962 catalog, the the rims, saddle, and tires were different, but it doesn't specify from there.
Since both of these have the Raleigh pattern rims, should I take it that they are DL22's? Also, I have not been able to find a serial number on either of these? Not on the seatpost, B.B., or headtube? Not a mark? Both have the standard Nottingham Heron headbadge and identical decals.
The decals are more like the 1967 Sprite I just picked up, but with a single gold foil with black and white band above and below the Raleigh Heron decal on the seat tube about an inch wide each. The decal pattern is what really made me think that these may have been put together or had a had some parts swapped. I am really not sure if I have seen any all original versions from these years or at least not any to compare to.

The decals aren't clear in the '62 catalog.
Did the decals change over the years? I had originally thought these were newer until I cleaned and saw the hub dates. The saddle and decals just appear newer to me, but the hubs say 2/62 and 2/67, and along with the one having the chrome fenders, I don't know whether to assume that both have had a wheelset swap, or if there was really no definite standard to go by? I also wouldn't have expected to find chrome fenders on an economy version (S22)? Since both are missing their chainguards, I also don't have any decals to there to compare with. I have seen that the script has changed on different chainguards over the years. The pics in the '62 catalog are just black and white sketches, and not photos, but I can't see any sign of the foil bands around the seat posts?

   RE:RE:MISC: Raleigh Sports Chrome Fenders? posted by Mark Stonich on 9/21/2005 at 5:03:37 PM
A friend has used the chrome fenders, and just about anything else shiny he could find, to turn one of his many Raleighs into what he calls his "American Raleigh". With white walls and bright red Imron paint, it's not my style but cool in it's own way.


Since the photo He's even replaced the SA 22t cog with a Shimano 22t. Chrome of course. Note the 1/2 of a Dare grip and SRAM 5 speed derailleur twist shifter. It works flawlessly with a later, single cable SA 5 speed.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by: Riptide on 9/18/2005 at 11:13:17 PM
Does anyone (other than me) actually RIDE their classic English Bikes. I am a commuter, switched from 10 speeds to 3 speeds 6 years ago. In my commuting fleet is a 1969 Robin Hood, bought it in late 1999, paid a whopping $60 for it-ad in local paper. Needed a longer seatpost, Brooks saddle, rack and tool bag, came with a working generator set. Since then, 6700+ miles, the usual quota of flats, 3rd set of tires (or tyres if you prefer), NOT ONE broken spoke. Don't know if they build them like that anymore bout in the "good Old Days" they did build them to last. And a 3 speed is much
more comfortable for stop and go cycling.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by David on 9/19/2005 at 1:17:46 AM
I ride my DL1 and Robin Hood Sports constantly. They're my daily workhorses; shopping, commuting, etc.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Kurt K. on 9/19/2005 at 1:25:26 AM
Chalk me up as another who rides his cycles - not all of them equally frequently, but nevertheless, rides them.

My regular driver, curiously enough, is a '69 Robin Hood Sports beater - bought the heap in March of '05 for $10 and have put about 250 miles on it since...on one pair of tyres and five tubes. Its completely rusted fenders & chainguard earns it the title of 'most disgusting bike' in my collection:


My previous daily rider, now only occasionally ridden, is a 1970 all-gold Raleigh Sports that was harvested from the trash. I located a pair of fenders for it a few months ago:


The replacement for the Robin Hood is on its way though - a 1978 Raleigh Grand Sport w/Reynolds 531 main frame & stays.

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Joe M. on 9/19/2005 at 2:29:10 AM
I only pleasure ride around here, there's no real place to ride to, as far as shopping or other. I'm not in a real bicycle friendly area here, no shoulders or bike paths. When I ride, I usually just ride for pleasure and excorcise. No one else around here rides anymore, so when I ride, it's just me. I stick to back roads and side streets, usually 5 or so miles a day when I do get out.
I was using my 1966 Robin Hood Sports, but I think this '67 Sprite I just found may see some use, I like the 5 speed hub set up, and the bike's not as clean, so I am less worried about something happening to it. Plus the ladies frame is less likely to get stolen here.
I do need to get out and ride more often, since I go this Sprite, I've been going nearly every day, mainly since it hasn't gotten buried in the garage yet. As long as it stays near the door, it'll get more use. My nicer bikes I keep stored on hooks and well separated to try and keep them nice, with the garage so cluttered right now, it's a major project to get a bike out. I need to re-arrange the garage so that I can get to each of them when I want to easier. I actually put a few of my nicer road bikes up in the attic, at least the one's I wasn't riding regularly. I got tired of cleaning them, I have a dust problem in the garage here, if I don't keep it covered, it gets covered with dust from a dirt lot out back. It gets in somehow, and on everything, the local school system has a warehouse attached to the school behind me, and trucks run in and out all day. I have yet to find a way to keep the dust down.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Riptide on 9/19/2005 at 3:06:42 AM
My sympathy. I live in a reasonably bike friendly area.
I bought an S5 (or was it S5C) in 1980 when it came back on the market, put in on another Raleigh Sports. Don't know if I got a lemon, or didn't set it up properly, but I didn't find it that satisfactory, didn't like the BMX-style down tube shifters that came with it. After about a year, traded it to another cyclist for 2 AW hubs. Let us know how yours works,

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Riding English Roadsters posted by Warren on 9/19/2005 at 3:30:40 AM
Elizabeth and I share a 61 Raleigh Sports, a 55 Dunelt Sports and a single speed Raleigh camelback for commuting around the our part of the city. Various other classic road and fixed gear bikes provide service for longer rides. Many other bikes are hibernating, waiting their turn to be active, including a 55 Humber Sports, 59 Raleigh Sports Suberbe (never seen another), 50 Lenton Clubman, 52 Hercules club, many CCM's including a "light" delivery bike that weighs over 50 lbs, etc. Part of the fun is mixing up the stable as seasons change.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Drew on 9/19/2005 at 10:49:44 AM
Eery Sunda I ride my 1930's Royal Enfield roadster with trailer to the local flea market....hauled three bike projects home yesterday.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Pete on 9/19/2005 at 1:35:52 PM
This summer I've been riding my 1931 Raleigh Light Roadster to and from the station, leaving it there all day. It is invisible here (in the UK), just another old black bike. It fascinates me that a 75 year old machine is so much part of the scene, and the design so well established, that it passes unnoticed. If it were a car for example it would no doubt pull a crowd.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by steve on 9/19/2005 at 3:36:14 PM
Back in early '81, I bought an S5/1 that I used on a Peugeot UO-8. Similar story, and I never liked the Hurst-inspired shifters either. The hub spent the next twenty years in a box. I dug it out in 2001 when the commute suggested that such an internal 5-speed might have advantages. An overhaul by a good Sturmey mechanic revealed that the compensator springs had originally been installed backwards. Assembled properly, it works fine - shifted by a pair of 3-speed triggers, and mounted on a Raleigh Super Course frame. I also have a later S5 - alloy shell, no date - that seems to work better yet.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Riding English Roadsters posted by Neal on 9/19/2005 at 4:55:52 PM
My commuter (sitting in my office next to me, as a matter of fact) is an English 70s Lambert Grand Prix on which I replaced the "death fork" not long ago. I have it setup up as a 42 x 18 single-speed w/ a Brooks saddle and upright alloy bars/stem, black Bluemels mudguards, 700c wheelset w/ black anodized rims. I took it on a 45-mile ride not long ago, and it felt terrific.

Soon to be in my commuting stable are a 1955 Trent Sports (once the wheels are built), a 1953 Rudge-Whitworth (w/ an alloy AW hub!), and a 1951 Clubman. That latter two need a bit of work, but should be good to go soon. I do figure that I want to own bikes that I'll actually ride though the Clubman will never be locked up to a bike rack!


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Matthew on 9/19/2005 at 6:17:06 PM
I thought I'd better reply too. There's no point having a bike to look at and not ride. I used to work near enough to home to cycle to work and used every bike in my fleet, with the exception of the BSA Gold Vase which wasn't in a rideable condition. My GPO bike was the recycle cycle being used for runs to the paper and bottle bank. Now the Rival is my only classic ride and it still gets ridden for pleasure. For work I use the Aluiminium Claude Butler(s) that my employer supplies.

Hooray for the riders and cycles too,
And readers of Old Roads (that's you),
Long may we ride on Sheffield steel,
Nottingham Badges above the front wheel.

Matthew - onward and upward!


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Riding English Roadsters posted by Mike on 9/20/2005 at 6:10:21 AM
I vary. Peak times during the summer and fall I usually ride 7-10 miles per night. If things are busy then maybe that is 7-10 miles per week (weekend trail rides). The only reason I have any bike is to restore and ride it. I don't know why people just keep bikes in their garage and then don't ride them. Never made sense to me.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Riding English Roadsters posted by Ken on 9/20/2005 at 5:40:37 PM
I only get to ride from Mid-September to Mid-June (too darn HOT in Phoenix in the summer). The 1978 Sport is the perfect commuter for all the right reasons. My normal commuting route is also the main route for the Lycra clad to get to the local training area for road and Mountain bikers. I get a kick out of being drafted by a some some guy whose still five years younger than my bike.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††Riding English Roadsters posted by Kimo on 9/21/2005 at 1:10:16 PM
I ride one of my DL-1ís daily 8-10 miles rain or shine. Iíve been a cyclist commuter off and on for over 30 years. Began with 10 speeds in Honolulu, switched to a Sports when I moved to New Haven, tried mountain bikes when I moved to the Big Apple, read about the Dl-1 in ďCountry LifeĒ and found one on the lower East Side. As soon I swung aboard I knew that the stately ride was the thing for me. I also discovered Old Roads around this time. I retro-fitted the first with full chain guard, dyno hub, and French saddle bag. Got sucked into the Raleigh 20 fever and tried 2 custom made variations of Sheldonís for a couple of years: five speed shimano, and a fixie. For me the ride is just okay, rather twitchy. Iím back to Dl-1ís, with 4 in my stable: 1: faithful full on version, 2: a lively four speed with front drum brake, no fenders, 700c 23 tires, cut down bars, ideale saddle 3: Womenís loop frame changed to single speed coaster, and finally 4: ASC three speed fixie, with 700c 28 tires (Iíll be trying nokia studded tires this winter). While I enjoy customizing, the elegance of the original is hard to beat. I believe that with proper brake set-up they are well suited to urban commuting. Riders being so high up are easy to see, the long wheel base makes irregular road surfaces less of an issue, and with proper loading you can carry a lot of stuff. Earlier this week I strapped on two conga drums to either side of the back rack and saved an $18 cab fare. I rarely worry about leaving them locked up, thieves want 10 speeds or better yet, mountain bikes. And they are fast, I regularly out-run the lycra types on the way home. I'm waiting for the folks at Rivendell to take on this classic geometry and create a $2000+ variation.

MISC:†††Sprite suprise! posted by: Drew on 9/18/2005 at 8:41:39 PM
Maybe the days of the $20. Sprite have ended...ebay #7183127350 ! I've noticed rising sprite prices of late, but $430 with 3 days to go..Wow Makes me feel pretty good about the '72 5-speed I bought this morning for $25.

   RE:MISC:†††Sprite suprise! posted by Riptide on 9/18/2005 at 11:04:21 PM
It's whatever the market will bear. I stick to the local
newspapers, yard and rummage sales, thrift shops, and you'd be surpised at what people simply discard. Found a nice
Ladies Raleigh 3 speed 6 mothns ago, dusty, that's all, left
out for the garbage men.

   RE:RE:MISC:†††Sprite suprise! posted by Kurt K. on 9/21/2005 at 1:14:01 AM
Oh, the good stuff at great prices are still out there.

Just picked this beautiful early '74 ladies' Raleigh Sprite in Carmine Red off the 'kerb on Monday. All original down to the Sturmey-Archer reflector - it hadn't fell out! Only downpoint to it is a rather unslightly dent in the front fender, and the rims are rusted - the front one beyond recognition.

Take care,



AGE / VALUE:†††ebay outting trike conversion posted by: sam on 9/18/2005 at 4:31:36 AM
that would be cool!!---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††ebay outting trike conversion posted by Matthew on 9/19/2005 at 6:21:22 PM
I have seen Hetchins converted trikes but never a Rogers. You may need more parts than are shown here. Trikes are huge fun but they do take some riding, cambers in the road make straight line riding a challenge and three wheel drift when cornering is acheivable, so is faling off!

Like two? Try three!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:†††ebay outting trike conversion posted by Matthew on 9/19/2005 at 10:09:19 PM
If its a trike you want then a trike you should have! eBay item 6562137516. The genuine article, I think?

Matthew - and so to bed.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††I'm surprised you fellows haven't seen this.... posted by: Kurt K. on 9/17/2005 at 2:28:35 PM
Gorgeous '30s Raleigh trackbike with a flip flop rear wheel - get a load of the radial spoking up front!:



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††I'm surprised you fellows haven't seen this.... posted by Matthew on 9/18/2005 at 6:06:51 PM
Hi folks,
If anyone is considering a bid on this bike then read all the questions and answers at the bottom of the details 'cos all is not what it is described as. The questions / comments say it best but it probably isn't a track bike, still rather nice though!

Matthew, all road and no track.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:†††I'm surprised you fellows haven't seen this.... posted by Kurt K. on 9/18/2005 at 7:39:20 PM
Dear Matthew,

I did read the Q&A after I had posted.

Stupid me forgot that roadbikes into the '30s had rather slack frame angles, quite unlike cycles made afterwards.

Hasn't changed my opinion on it one bit though. These early roadbikes, with their slack frame angles and unique handlebars look like they're moving fast while standing still.