ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Possible hope for a Raleigh serial number chart? posted by: Kurt K. on 9/2/2005 at 12:28:25 AM
Dear friends,

I'm sure many a collector here wishes a proper Raleigh serial number chart existed. Alas, it doesn't, and we have this less-then-adaquate Nottinghamshire Archive rubbish to misguide everyone in it's path.

But I digress - and for once, I'll come straight to the point:

The serial on my '51 is #0000BD. This "BD" suffix, curiously, is also present on Peter Kohler's 1951 Rudge De-Luxe Sports Tourist and '51 Raleigh Clubman. Those who have been to his photo gallery of bikes on Wool Jersey might have also noticed that all the 1948 serials end with "P", and the '49 serials with "AT".

As it appears there may be a glimmer of hope in decoding the Raleigh serial chart with this little discovery, I have decided to investigate this further.

I now call on the members of this forum for aid in this investigation, namely, for members owning steel-framed, Nottingham-made Raleighs dating from 1947-1955 , to post the serial number of their cycle (ommiting the digits, if desired) on this forum, or to email the information to me.

For sake of accuracy, I will REQUIRE these four pieces of information:

*Make/Model type (i.e. Raleigh Sports/Rudge Superbe)
*Serial number (minus numerals if prefered, however, no soul other then I will have access to this information, if emailed to me. Furthermore, if the Nottinghamshire archives are partially correct, these digits may be of importance. If you choose not to state the numerals, please let me know how many digits there are in the serial number.)
*Hub year stamp
*Hum month stamp

Optional is if the owner wishes to supply a photograph of the cycle to me. This is mostly just to further confirm that the cycle is actually from the said year, and hasn't had the hub replaced or other little innacuracies that might hamper the construction of this chart.

All information listed above may be emailed to me at cudak888@aol.com. I will let the forum know my findings as the chart progresses (hopefully).

Remember, if there's no participation in this, there will be no chart. I cannot work without data, so please contribute this information if you have access to a Raleigh of the years I mention!

All the best,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Possible hope for a Raleigh serial number chart? posted by Kurt K. on 9/3/2005 at 1:03:14 PM
Just thought I'd let you fellows know that the serial number decoding process is progressing well (thank you very much for emailing me your cycle's info), and I'm beginning to make some sense out of Raleigh's system.

Yes - I'm not joking - there is a pattern to it (not a particularly good pattern, but there's a pattern nevertheless), and with enough serial numbers, there's a good chance that I'll be able to compile a logical serial chart for these early Raleigh models.

Incedentally, I particularly need 1949, 1950, 1951 and 1952 serials right now - so if you have them, send them in!

For those curious, after I complete the 1947-1955 serials, I indend to tackle 1974-1980 (mainly because the serials appear to be a bit easier to decode for those years), then the real test: Raleigh serials from 1960-1973.

Take care,


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   '51 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist photos posted by: Kurt K. on 9/1/2005 at 11:55:04 PM
More pictures for your enjoyment:


Has it's cosmetic faults, but in overall very nice shape. I love the "RI" rear reflector - very nice touch.

Please do see my post on a possible clearing up of the Raleigh serial number charts in the post above.

All the best,


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Full chaincase tweaking posted by: Edward in Vancouver on 8/31/2005 at 1:03:58 AM
A while back I posted about my adventures in finally getting a full chaincase, painted in matching colour for my bike. I had some noise issues which I think I've cleared up.

The bike was originally equipped with a Heron 48t crank and AG 20 t hub. I had upgraded to an FG hub and found a Shimano (but very similar to the S/A cog) 23 t cog. Yeah, yeah, well, the bike IS heavy, and Vancouver is hilly... My noise would only appear going over potholes or large cracks. Obviously, there wasn't alot of room for the chain and it would slap inside the case. I was reluctant to admit to this because I took alot of effort to straighten the orignal cranks and have them re-chromed, (at some cost!) so I really didn't want to replace them. However I recently found a 44 t Heron crank, chrome in decent condition and now have exchanged it with the 48 t, and replaced the rear cog with the 20 t. End of that particular noise...

I have never found an original set of cover plates for the rear end, the two pieces tht cover the rear hub and slide into grooves soldered into the chaincase and elbow. I suppose these pieces are rusting somewhere under leaves by the roadside or long disposed of by disgruntled bike shop mechanics... So I manufactured my own, strictly traditionaly of course, I use "Carr's table water biscuit" tins... Lovingly traced from cardboard patterns that I had made from hours of trial and error and then painted to match. No go. They shook, rattled, and hummed. They had to go. Now, with all that effort that I've taken, and now I've got about 4 sq inches of chain exposed to the elements, defeating the whole purpose of a fully enclosed chaincase. What to do? It's no secret that my mind wanders, and I let this problem wander with me for a few days, and then while I was looking at pictures of Dutch chaincases with oilcloth covers the idea hit me. I would trace the patterns on rip-stop nylon and sew velcro strips on the outside edges. I would glue velcor strips where the tin grooves are on the case and elbow, and stick them on! I've got the material "plates" cut out, but haven't sewed the velcro on yet. I'll let you know how it goes in few weeks.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Full chaincase tweaking posted by Kurt K. on 8/31/2005 at 1:33:40 AM
Thank you for the update and the information. Been saving your posts for reference when I mount my own chaincase onto my '51 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist.

One little question I wanted to ask...are you sure the Carr's tins were of sufficient thickness? It's quite possible that they were too thin for the slots. Try a slightly thicker piece of sheet steel.

Take care,


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Full chaincase tweaking posted by Edward in Vancouver on 8/31/2005 at 11:12:31 PM
I folded over the edges, the soldered them. All my professional life I've wielded a blow torch for pastries and creme brule's, but only now I started to use the torch for what it was meant for...

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Full chaincase tweaking posted by Kurt K. on 8/31/2005 at 11:50:35 PM
Are you sure that even folded, the plates weren't too thin? Did you try soldering another slice of metal on the folded edge?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Full chaincase tweaking posted by nat on 9/1/2005 at 7:08:08 AM
I'm missing the elbow on the chain case of my 51 Raleigh as well. The 61 has them (if you want templates) but I'm not sure they're compatible. I had a squiz at the rudge (I think that's what it was) chain case on ebay a few weeks ago. The elbow didn't look compatible either. I think Kurt has commented on this before. I've even been tempted to get a new chain gauard from yellow jersey just for the elbow.

AGE / VALUE:   ccm collegiate posted by: mike platt on 8/30/2005 at 10:17:19 PM
Hey again,
Mike here with the 69 all-gold raleigh.
I know this is for english roadsters, but I bought a red-and-white CCM collegiate today off the orginal owner, who bought it new in 1955. It is in great shape, and complete, down to the orginal tires, and I see a lot of english parts, like an SA three speed hub, and a Harris mattress saddle, stuffed with what looks like horse hair.
It needs a damn good cleaning - I understand shoe polish is the best?
And most importantly, is there anywhere to find out more about the bike - it's crank is odd. It looks like a single piece...
If this isn't the right forum, which is?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   ccm collegiate posted by David on 9/1/2005 at 2:45:54 PM
Someone must know about CCMs. It wouldn't surprise me if "Ashtabula" one-piece cranks were used rather than three-piece cottered cranks. Canadian industry sometimes seems like a hybrid between English and US practices.

MISC:   I'm back...again...in one piece... posted by: Kurt K. on 8/30/2005 at 1:08:44 AM
Howdy folks...

Hurricane Katrina did a nice job of tearing herself through Coral Gables, down here in Miami...but I'm still in one piece, and so is the house, and the trees...and, yes - so are the bikes.

Power to this area has been off since 7:30 P.M. Friday, and was just restored a few hours ago. Been running the major appliances (fridge, a/c, lighting) on a generator since then.

Just thought I'd let everyone know that everything is ok down here.

P.S.: About those whitewall EA3 tires - the max pressure marked on the sidewalls for these specific tires is 60 PSI. Never mind what it says on the sidewall though - I'm running an identical pair of these tires in blackwall on my '69 Robin Hood at 70 PSI, and I haven't had any problems.

Mind you, for the last 4 days, I've been chasing the power folks around the neighborhood on the Robin Hood - and not over the very best of terrain either. Haven't had a flat yet.

Take care,


   RE:MISC:   I'm back...again...in one piece... posted by Matthew on 8/30/2005 at 8:45:36 PM
I for one am heartily glad that you are safe and well. That your place and belongings are safe too is surely a great blessing.

Matthew - in England where hurricanes hardly evr happen.

   RE:MISC:   I'm back...again...in one piece... posted by Chris on 8/31/2005 at 1:34:53 AM
I am glad that you are ok!
Many people are not doing as well. This hurricane kicked a lot of butt, a real mess. Sat there horrified with my dinner bowl in front of the t.v. Stay Well.

   RE:RE:MISC:   I'm back...again...in one piece... posted by Kurt K. on 8/31/2005 at 11:45:59 PM
It's certainly is a relief to have recovered from the storm with hardly a scratch. There's still a good deal of houses in the area without power though - FP&L reports that power should be restored to all houses by Friday.

Luckly, Miami survived Katrina with minimal damage, considering. The far southern and western ends of the city recieved some flooding in areas, but the city in general faired off well.

My heart goes out to all those left in the terrible wake of Katrina, especially those in New Orleans - like you, Chris, I have seen the photos in the paper and on the news. This hurricane must be one of the worse disasters ever to hit these particular states.

Stay safe,