ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by: Kurt K. on 9/26/2005 at 11:29:14 PM
Dick, I dare say those are your 5.5" cranks sitting on this machine...with a 48 tooth chainwheel:


That's a 1974 Raleigh Sports...with a 19.5" seat tube height. And we thought 21" was small! Never got around to measuring the wheelbase and center-to-center on this bike, unfortunatly.

Strange, eh?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Kurt K. on 9/26/2005 at 11:36:32 PM
One more pic:


Bet some Raleigh Chopper nut would like to get his hands on those short-arm cranks with that 48 tooth chainwheel...


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by David on 9/27/2005 at 2:54:47 AM
My 74 or 75 catalog shows the 19 1/2" Sports only in Silver. None of the other Sports-type models (LTD, Superbe) offer that size.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Kurt K. on 9/27/2005 at 11:02:41 PM
Just took a second look at the '74, '75 and '76 catalogues - both the '75 and '76 make note of the 19.5" frame. '74 features the Platinum color, not Silver.

Incedentally, the Sports for 1977 squeezed down even smaller to an 18", and there's a 1978 (I believe) Pearl Silver men's Sports that pops up on eBay once in a while with what can be nothing larger then a 15" frame...with a humpback top tube to boot!

Take care,


   :ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Warren on 9/28/2005 at 3:19:42 AM
The humpback frame was often seen on Raleigh rebrands; Gliders, Supercycles and others had these but almost always with single speed coaster hubs. I had one, a beautiful Glider with chrome fenders/mudguard and white pedals, grips, seat and Dunlop Sprites. It was no larger than 19"...even hard for me to squeeze into with the 29" inseams. Or is it my stomach that gets in the way?

I have pics of it. The bike, not the stomach. We REALLY need Rollbritannia and a database!

The Raleigh roadster camelback was also popular on these marques...again, singlespeeds. I've used one of these in the winter for years. The Dunlop 28 X 1 1/2 canadian westwood rims take 700c studded tires . The Supercycle humped frame keeps you closer to the ground...better balance in the real slippery stuff.
I paid $80 for it and it ploughs (not plows) thru snow like its not there. With studs that is.


   RE::ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Kurt K. on 9/28/2005 at 11:34:30 PM
Have you photos of the Supercycle as well? Sounds like a most interesting machine.

I came into the English cycle hobby just a few months before Roll Britannia was lost, and sadly, I never did get around to joining until it was too late.

However, I am working on a small database on my own site that should at least fill some gaps. It's still under construction, but the basic format is up, and if you would like to see it, here's the web address:


All photo contributions and especially catelogues and repair/parts manuals and various literature are very gladly accepted!

Take care,


   RE:RE::ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Warren on 9/29/2005 at 1:30:03 AM
Glad to see the site...when you're up and running, I'll send you pix! I've got some manuals as well.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Matthew on 9/29/2005 at 7:03:25 PM
Kurt and fellow riders,

I ride 21" frames and teeter about at junctions but find them best for making efficient use of my limited inside leg of 30". There is much discussion elsewhare about frame sizing so we won't go that route but a 19" is my calculated size. If I ride thta size frame I just end up with seat stem raised from the frame. so why bother? I'll ride something a bit 'too' big and manage better.

Your website is very good and well presented, my hat is certainly off to you Kurt. Well done. May I just note that captions and photos seem to be adrift but I imagine this is teething trouble or 'awaiting picture' problems. I'll dig out some photos for you.

Matthew - walking short - riding tall!

Ps my daughter rides an MTB with 26" wheels and a dinky 16" frame, no camel back but her seat is almost below the top of the back wheel.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by Kurt K. on 10/2/2005 at 1:13:26 AM
Sounds good, Warren!

You should make out fine with a 21" frame. I go by the simple rule of thumb that you shouldn't have any more (or less) then a 10 degree bend at the knee with the crankarm in the lowest position.

Why, thank you very much Matthew. The Scwhinn and all For Sale pages are old, outdated, with incorrect HTML, but most everything in the Raleigh Archives has been updated to a proper format. Right now, the Raleigh Archives and the Our Collection sections are my main concerns (especially the collection section, as it is one of the most extensive parts of the site...and it's always growing!).

Ah yes...the horrors of the modern mountainbike...tiny frames!

Take care,


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Small frame (and I mean small) '74 Sports posted by mrs allen on 10/8/2005 at 1:55:03 PM
Let me know what your last offer of the mention in subject is and
also mail me back with more of its pictures if still available for sale.
I await your reply.
Mrs Allen...

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Large framed Raleigh on eBay posted by: Joe M on 9/26/2005 at 3:39:41 AM
Found this on eBay: (Not Mine)


Looks more than a bit rough, but a very tall frame.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Large framed Raleigh on eBay posted by David on 9/26/2005 at 12:01:12 PM
If I were buying a bike from the UK, I think I would arrange a trip over the pond to collect it. Shipping one like this will probably cost more than a trip!

FOR SALE:   Many item listed to Ebay posted by: Peter Naiman on 9/26/2005 at 3:21:55 AM
I've posted almost twenty items to Ebay tonight, with many more to follow. Much of what is posted
is Campagnolo second generation NOS Super Record. Most of it was mounted on a few show bikes, but
the bikes were never on the road, so I still consider the componants NOS even though mounted.

To find my listings just look under my Ebay handle: hetchinspete.

Listed so far:

Hetchins logo patches designed by myself and Bob Hovey. Based on the design of an early 50s
sweater. 3.5 X 4.25" in size. Atleast ten still available at $10.00 plus shipping.
Used Nuovo Record chainset.
Used very nice Nervar chainset with excellent Stronglight rings.
NOS in box Edco Gold Ano Competition headset(Brittish).
NOS Campag Alloy Freewheel, 13-20.
Campag alloy freewheel removal tool in original box.
NOS Resilion Rear fixed/free rear hub. Highflange 40 hole.
NOS Racelite highflange hub. 32 hole.
Used Dura Ace AX chainset with very good rings/ fair pedal with toeclips.
NOS second generation Super Record fluted seat tube. 27.2mm.
Very nice Brooks Pro Presoftened saddle. Chrome rails.
NOS second generation Campag Super Record chainset. Mint. 52-42 rings.
NOS in box, Campag Super Record front derailleur. Early 80s.
NOS Campag Super Record front clamp on derailleur. Good condition.
NOS Campag Super Record brake handles with excellent NOS rubbers. Mint.
NOS Campag Second generation rear derailleur/ with titanium mounting bolt.
NOS Maeda Pro-Compe freewheel/ Straight block/ 14-18.
NOS Campag Super Record low flange hubset/ 36 hole/ 126mm spacing.
NOS Cinelli Giro D'Italia handle bars 64/40. with NOS Cinelli stem.

I'll be up late tonight listing much more including some pre-war Hetchins transfers that we've had
reproduced and are not available anywhere else.

Best regards,
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI


AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by: sam on 9/26/2005 at 12:54:04 AM
What a great looking bike!!!
Chicago area.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: This Is Cool!/bent!! posted by sam on 9/26/2005 at 1:58:30 AM
Didn't see that last photo---frames bent!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Joe M on 9/26/2005 at 3:38:24 AM
I had seen one of these at a car swap meet for sale a few years ago, I passed it up since I couldn't find any sign of it saying 'Made In England' on it anywhere. It was almost identical to the one on eBay, but with out the Dynohub. I actually looked at the one I saw pretty close, and it looked like it may have been an Asian import or copy. The forks looked like they were just cheap stamped steel, with no real dropout at the ends, the cranks were ill-fitting and poorly chromed, and the saddle looked like a Brooks mattress copy. The seller that I ran into wanted top dollar, so I didn't even pursue it for the parts. The one on eBay looks to have the same forks, cranks, and saddle. Was there true Urania Bikes from England? Did I pass up a real gem or was my first impression correct?

When I look at the one on eBay, I see an ill fitting rear rack, a bent top tube, German Union Pedals, 1970's reflectors and lighting system, and what looks to be maybe an aftermarket kickstand. Could this be a later non British bike? I can see nowhere in the pics where it says Made in England, not on the headbadge or paint. I can see that it has an S/A front hub, but it may not be the original wheel or wheelset.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/26/2005 at 9:32:24 AM
Certainly interesting and somewhat of a conundrum. What appears to be a Dynohub... AND a bottle generator?

Chaincase is nice though!


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by David on 9/26/2005 at 11:55:08 AM
It's not a dynohub, it's a brake.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/26/2005 at 2:21:48 PM
Ah.... a brake... DOH! I should have known that! Makes sense... a neat machine... bummer about the frame.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool!/bent/not English posted by Matthew on 9/26/2005 at 5:29:33 PM
If the phots weren't so good I would say it was a spoof but English it is not. The U - on the lamps is a give away UNION ie German. Whilst this doesn't look continental it is a good copy but not an original and reflectors on pedals did not come in until the mid seventies. Nice try but no medal.

Matthew - English and glad to be.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool!/bent/not English posted by Kurt K. on 9/26/2005 at 7:00:33 PM
Frame is bent, and so is the fork. Must have been one humdinger of an accident...either that, or another idiot backing up a pickup truck without looking...


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Joe M on 9/26/2005 at 7:33:06 PM
After looking closer, it does look like it has front and rear rod actuated drum brakes, but why they keep with the rod brake style rims? I don't see any sign of it having rod brake calipers, so it must have came with the drums.
I wonder if this is a German built bike, or an Asian bike with some English and German parts added?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Joe M on 9/26/2005 at 7:47:09 PM
Also, if the frame took that hard of a hit, it's posible that at least the front wheel has been replaced, or is still damaged.
Even if it were British, that would be a pretty hard repair, it would most likely need two tubes replaced and a repaint? I doubt that they would straighten without damage to the headlugs, if there isn't already problems there.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Jacob on 9/27/2005 at 1:42:41 PM
This is a danish build bike.
Urania is a bike shop in Copenhagen, that used to be very big including building their own Urania-branded bikes. They used to be single- or three-speed machines founded in the english and/or german tradition most of them equipped with german Torpedo-hubs. These bikes are still around in Copenhagen.
Today Urania market a range of classic Raleighs (www.urania.dk).


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Matthew on 9/27/2005 at 5:16:31 PM
Thank you Jacob. I jsut knew it wasn't WEnglish and your explanation is great.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   This Is Cool! posted by Joe M on 9/28/2005 at 3:41:35 AM
Pretty cool site, I wonder if these are Euro built or Asian built?
The Raleigh Club Deluxe looks pretty cool.


If they are still Euro built bikes, I wonder how much to get one here?
I do see something about loans on the homepage though?


MISC:   National Swap Meet List available posted by: Peter Naiman on 9/25/2005 at 3:02:48 PM
This is a personal invite to anyone interested in bicycle restorations from myself to those who may want to join a new growing list that is dedicated cycle restorations. There are no hard fast governing rules to adhere to,
and it seems like a very congenial group. So far there are about 380 members and when I joined a few months ago there might have only 30-40, so it is growing quickly. To join, click on the URL
listed below.


I just joined the Wheelmen after lurking from the outside for years and have found most lists are dedicated the either Antiques, Lightweight Racer, Balloon Tyre, or Touring bikes etc, but no group deals with all areas of interest. I'd like too see a list in which all cycle groups come together and share information. It doesn't matter what era a cycle is from, we can all share our knowledge and interest.

P.S. to all, this is a personal disclaimer. This is not an attempt by me to steal away folks from the Bob, CR Lists or other lists as I'm a member of both and plan on staying active with both. It's just nice to have another public forum with which to air information without restrictions.

Best regards,
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI