AGE / VALUE:   Armstrong bicycle head badge 1964 posted by: Ed on 12/2/2007 at 7:07:24 AM
Does anyone out there have an Armstrong head badge for sale or trade? I have a nice example of the Raleigh made bicycle. The fenders and chain guard feel like thicker metal. I have owned later Raleigh made bikes and there is a big difference. Ed

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Armstrong bicycle head badge 1964 posted by Joe on 12/15/2007 at 1:05:38 AM
I may have something here, do you have a pic of the style you need? Maybe measure the rivet spacing too. I know I saved a few Armstrong badges a few years ago but I'm not sure how old they were.


MISC:   What's New posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at on 12/1/2007 at 6:33:59 AM
Be sure to check out what's new at OldRoads by clicking on the "What's New" icon near the top right hand corner of this page.


AGE / VALUE:   "Saturday Night & Sunday Morning" posted by: Andy on 11/29/2007 at 10:15:31 AM
Last night I watched the excellent "Saturday Night & Sunday Morning" which I got from Netflix. It's set in Nottingham in 1960 and features a very young Albert Finney working as a lathe operator in the Raleigh factory. It's not exactly clear what kind of shop it is initially, but a paymaster comes by with a "Raleigh" paybox. There are also tons of great bike scenes, with all the workers riding bikes home and the bike is Finney's main form of tranport. A great film of pre-Swinging 60's working class Britain, with cycling to boot.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Chris on 11/30/2007 at 9:55:01 AM
The movie is set in the Raleigh factory!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by David on 12/1/2007 at 11:05:39 AM
I saw it on TCM the other night. I wasn't paying too much attention at first; the young Albert Finney, old factory ("That's gone now, honey.") Then a tray full of BB spindles, then the paymaster's "Raleigh" tray. A regular contributor here sez he's studied it closely and our hero cousins' bikes are NOT Raleighs, but he's not sure just what they are. I guess the cool young guys would have something more exotic than a Lenton.

FOR SALE:   Hercules Fixed Gear (for sale) posted by: Dan on 11/28/2007 at 10:51:00 PM
I've got an old Hercules fixed gear, which has a flip-flop hub and a freewheel on the other side. I bought it to restore, but haven't touched it in the 9 months I've had it, so I figure if someone is willing to pay me the $250 I spent on it, I'll let them have a go at it. I dug up it's old thread on bikeforums, which has plenty of pics and information:

Additionally, the leather seat will be easy to have replaced, as the leather piece itself is just a shaped, flat panel with clips riveted on, which clips over the sprung steel frame. Also, as I brought it up from the basement today one of the rear wingnuts clipped the edge of the door and the "wing" broke :(. At any rate, please let me know if you are interested in buying it. I'm in Portland, OR, and I don't mind shipping it although I've sworn never to pack up another bike that wasn't for me, so you'll have to pay the bike shop fee for it as well (I shipped a bike last year and they only charged me $15. Or if someone on this board is local, I'd be glad to arrange for them to do the packing, as I'm sure that would be the preferable option.


MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by: Steve on 11/27/2007 at 4:13:09 PM
Watch out,novice question approaching !
Having recently acquired one or two oldish English bikes all adorned with a white flash on the rearmost part of the rear mudguard, I was wondering if this was a war time addition or an official government road safety instruction or just a common sense safety or dare I even say a fashion statement ?
I suspect there's a serious side to it.
However, can anyone inform me if there was an official instruction and if so when that date was (and also when the practice was stopped).
My father vaguely remembers painting his own white flash on his Hercules hundreds of years ago but can't remember why !


   RE:MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 11/27/2007 at 5:44:45 PM
Yep. Blackout regulations during WWII. I'm sure others more knowledgeable as to exact dates and requirements will chime in. Interestingly enough... it carried well beyond wartime... into the late 1970's.

Welcome... to the "madness" that can be.... "Fondness" of British Velocipedes. :-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:MISC: White section on rear mudguard. posted by Matthew on 11/28/2007 at 12:37:32 AM
Hi Steve,

Larry is right there have been many discussions on this DB about the white flash. If you search the archives (see top of page) and feed in black out or mudguard or some such thing you will find the previous discussions. I pasted together a long message a month or two back. that has info going back quite a way.

Basically the white section of a mudguard doesn't date the bike. In the UK it was blackout regs which caused it to happen so many pre WW2 bikes have white tails but not all pre WW2 bikes do so. In the US of A different states appear to have different laws concerning the white tail so a relatively recnt bike may have one. Then there are the restorers and collectors who feel their bike is undressed without one.

Me? I go without if the bike is old enough not to have been supplied with one and if its post WW2 it doesn't need one. BUT when out on my bike(s) I wear a helmet and hi-viz and light up like Blackpool sea front!

Matthew - probably to knowledgeable on this subject for my own good.

   RE:MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by Steve on 11/28/2007 at 4:42:01 PM
Thanks for the replies gents.

I've since read the in depth (and very informative) details in the archives and I suppose I better apologise to my father for him not knowing why he painted his mudguard !
If he painted it in 1949 I suppose he could have still been shell-shocked and was probably none the wiser about any regulation changes or maybe he felt a bit left out and simply wanted to be like the rest (or most of the rest).

Anyhow, I still have a further "novice" question :-
Of the four bikes that I have with the white flash i.e. Two Hercules and Two Raleigh, the two Hercules have white shaped/contoured plates that attach on to the mudguard where as the two Raleighs are simply painted on permanently (although now very faded and tatty).
Does this mean that some folk didn't fancy riding around in daylight with white showing and just attached a white plate when the need arose ?
Please don't tell me that a well known High Street bicycle retailer started to sell these plates as the latest must have safety gimmick after the war, surely it was easier to slap a bit of paint on ?

Steve "the novice but learning slowly" !


   RE:RE:MISC: White section on rear mudguard. posted by Warren on 11/28/2007 at 5:09:50 PM
I think manufacturers in the pre-war era didn't balk at making higher quality components just to enhance the reputation of the marque. I have an Eatons roadster with the same white plate. The fenders are rolled steel and heavy gauge to boot. Maybe it's made by Hercules?


   RE:MISC: White section on rear mudguard. posted by Howard on 11/28/2007 at 5:43:32 PM
I recall seeing some reprint from a British magazine that said how so many square inches of white were required to be visible from the rear. It had some graphic examples of optional ways of doing this, including a round white disc extended horizontally from the seatpost.

   RE:RE:MISC: White section on rear mudguard. posted by Kevin on 11/28/2007 at 7:08:18 PM
I have a Hercules cycle truck (delivery bicycle) that has the separate plate on the back of the rear fender. It must have been painted white originally.

   RE:MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by Pete on 11/29/2007 at 1:54:27 AM
Howard is right - there was an article in the V-CC magazine 'The Boneshaker' volume 17, Spring 2004. The 'white patch' was nothing to do with WW2 or any blackout regulations - it was made compulsory in 1934 despite much opposition from the cycling lobby, who saw it as a step towards cycle licences and futher regulation.

It became law in the UK on 18th October 1934 under the 'Road Traffic Acts 1930 to 1934, the Pedal Cycles (White Surface) Provisional Regulations'.

It was introduced amidst a number of other measures in an attempt to reduce the appaling number of road accident casualties resulting from a combination of poor roads, no driving test, no maximum speed limit and no compulsory rear light on cycles. Road casualties in the early thirties were running at twice the current rate, on one tenth of the present motor traffic. Rear cycle reflectors only had been made compulsory under the Road Transport Lighting Act of 1927. The white patch was required to be of 12 square inches, centered 13 inches above the ground.

   RE:MISC: White section on rear mudguard. posted by Matthew on 11/29/2007 at 11:33:57 AM
See what you started Steve?

Warren - What no brakes? Looks just like a pre-war Herc.

Pete - a brilliant example of what we do best - stuff - information from the depths.

The Blackout regs were responsible for more British civilian deaths than the Germans in the first 6 months of their implementation.

Matthew - not in the dark

   RE:MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by Pete on 11/29/2007 at 12:57:17 PM
It's official....
We are all anoraks!
Pete... (The other one)

   RE:MISC:   White section on rear mudguard. posted by Steve on 11/29/2007 at 4:00:51 PM
Hello folks,

Thanks for the responses, I now consider myself fairly-well briefed on this subject.

I've since spoken to my father and threatened to report him to the appropriate authorities if he didn't check to make sure that the patch was 12 square inches centered 13 inches above the ground !
He swears that he checked it twice (once with a bobby).

Anyhow, having had time to dwell on this subject he then dared to inform me that this practice came about because it had been noticed (by a high ranking government official out shooting on his estate one day) that when a rabbit runs away across a field, a white flash is often spotted under it's tail which in turn helps the hunter to see it (and shoot it) !

Now, I do like a good story but I don't think anyone in a position of governmental authority would dare admit to noticing anything towards the backend of a rabbit that could be the answer to Britains dire road safety figures of the time hence I don't believe this for one minute, unless of course you know,no,no

I'm now raising the white flags on this one and I'm off to search for my 32 twelve inch spokes !