ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best way to remove ball cup from SA hub posted by: Stewart F on 3/15/2007 at 6:58:26 AM
Dear Vintage Bicycle Enthusiasts, Please tell about the various ways you use to remove the ball cup that encloses the SA hub. How well does the factory wrench(old style hub)work and where can you find one(or is one even needed)?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Best way to remove ball cup from SA hub posted by Mark Stonich on 3/15/2007 at 10:00:40 AM
I always use a hammer and an old Craftsman screwdriver that has had the tip ground at a slight angle. You want to use a tool that is softer than the ball cup.

I've never heard of one, but I'd like to find or make a proper spanner for the old style some day. BTW Yesterday was the 1st time in 25+ years I couldn't get a ball ring off with a hammer and modified screwdriver. Everything was badly rusted, but I was trying to salvage a 36h shell.

For the new round notch type I bought a Sturmey spanner for $20 from Persons-Majestic (AKA Permaco) http://www.permaco.com/ It's not on their website, you have to phone them. Thin and cheap,but it does the job. Good people to do business with. The guy I talked to wasn't sure they had any. So he says "Just give my your address. If we have some in the other warehouse I'll send it with an invoice."

PS. Most plastic screwdriver handles won't take hammering very well, but I've been using this Craftsman for 20+ years.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Best way to remove ball cup from SA hub posted by James on 3/15/2007 at 2:00:55 PM
I have the new SA spanner but haven't had a chance to use it yet. If you are planning on doing a complete overhaul you could apply triflow to the edge of the cup, I let it soak over night and then I hammer on each flat using a type of punch that is cylindrical in shape, or a screw driver. The triflow makes life a lot easier when you are trying to do this yourself and don't have anyone to hold onto the rim for you.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Best way to remove ball cup from SA hub posted by Chris on 3/16/2007 at 8:31:54 AM
Wear safety goggles. These parts chip off and we don't want you injured. Yes, there is or was a tool made but good luck in finding one and all the service sheets show a hammer and a punch used anyways.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best way to remove ball cup from SA hub posted by David on 3/16/2007 at 8:47:47 AM
I didn't know there was ever a spanner for the notched ball ring. I tried grinding down a spanner (for the circular notch ring) but it's not really satisfactory. I can use it to turn the ring once it's loosened but it jumps out when the ring is tight. I'd think the best tool would be a very narrow cold chisel with its tip ground square.

AGE / VALUE:   Old bike posted by: Mark on 3/15/2007 at 1:50:36 AM
I have recently bought an older bike that I am going to restore and use as a commuter.I am interested to know a bit about it. It has a serial No. under the saddle JA59150, the saddle is Brookes and the the rear hub is Perry England 40-14. The only other marking is on the headlight bracket which is stamped Raleigh Can anyone shed some light on this??

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Old bike posted by sam on 3/16/2007 at 6:13:59 AM
The 40-14 on the hub means it's a 40 hole hub for 14 gauge spokes.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A tale I had to share posted by: Pete on 3/13/2007 at 4:39:13 PM
It was a nice sunny day this morning, the new shed was up and the need for a good ride around the local lanes on one of my old bikes was high on the list of "things to do"
I pulled the latest 2 wheeled aquisition (a circa 1910-1920 enormous bicycle with newly restored and working oil lamps)) out of the new shed and headed for the lanes where I live in the heart of the west country with the purpose of giving it some serious road testing.I'd only done about 5 miles or so when I spotted a fluorescent green jacket approaching from an adjoining lane with his bike just viewable from over the dry stone wall.He caught up with me and we exchanged the usual pleasantaries.It turned out he was the same guy that had pulled me over last christmas eve and kept me talking about the 1934 Raleigh I was sat on for ages even though I was out delivering xmas cards at the time and daylight was fading.Today he was riding his 50's Claude Butler that in 1953 he had paid the huge sum of £50 just for the frame.I offered him a ride on my latest mount which he gladly agreed to and we continued down the lane and chatted as we rode in the lovely local scenery.He was very impresssed with the early barrel shifter on my bike and how easy it was to use even though he'd never seen one before and kinda got used to the idea that riding sat upright on a well sprung saddle was a nice way to ride.
He said that since our last chance meeting he had discussed me and my love of old bikes with some old guy in town he knows and this old guy wanted to see me.He told me his name and address and suggested I pop round and see him as he has some old bikes in his shed.Curiosity got the better of me so I went to see the old guy.We live in a small town where everyone knows everybody else and sure enough he knew all about my parents/grandparents/uncles etc.
He said he had been expecting me after chatting with the other old guy on the Claude Butler some time before and duely invited me into one of his sheds to look at the bikes he had.One was a New hudson the other a Rudge, both were purchased in town by local people living less than half a mile from where I was born ( and my grandfather) and were £6 and £7 each new from 2 of the towns bike shops that are no longer there.He explained that untill recently he had bills of sale for both bikes which were paid for weekly over a long period of time.The New Hudson was used in the war on "fire watch" and the Rudge was used in the home guard and both bikes had never left the area.
Not wishing to seem rude and to interupt the old guys reminiscing I stood back and admired the bikes in the shed that were partly obscured from view by his beansticks.They both had K series quadrant changers,the Hudson had full chaincase and the Rudge had those gorgeous spat extensions to the rear mudguard which I have only seen once before.(not sure if the front was the same)and both bikes from what I could see although not mint were totally original.
UNFORTUNATELY the old guy would not sell me the bikes........instead he insists that I have them for free on the understanding that I look after them/never sell them and never let them leave our town.Apparently he has been waiting for the "right person" to pass the bikes on to for years and has turned down many offers of cash for the bikes and even requests from his own family to take the bikes away all of which have been refused.
I feel highly flattered and honoured that he has chosen me to receive the bikes with all their local history etc but despite his insistance that I take them away there and then I have told him that I will visit him again in 1 week to give him chance to change his mind and not to cause any family upset about getting rid of the bikes.He said upon departing the bikes will be there waiting for me next week and will not be going anywhere as he is adamant I am the rightful person to look after the bikes and cherish them till I pass them on the same as he has and then led me into another shed to offer me some GEC battery bicycle lamp foc to sweeten the deal!
I think the old guy must have seen a bit of himself in me as he is totally obsessed with old bikes and wishes the bike to stay where it belongs and where its history is much appreciated and woth more than a monetary value.
And I thought I was the only one that thought like that..
The world is a better place for people with such values.
Sorry about the length of the story which is 100% genuine but I felt it was a tale worth telling and says a lot about history and peoples genuine feelings and values about older items of interest and goes to show how after travelling hundreds of miles in persuit of "the right bike" you end up finding it 600 yards from your own house.
I will post up some pictures and a more detailed history of the bikes next week when I have picked them up and fully absorbed what the old guy was telling me.
Cheers Pete.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A tale I had to share posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 3/14/2007 at 2:32:57 AM
Thanks for sharing that Pete. Sounds like you certainly are the right Man for the job of what are quite apparantly, local historical artifacts.

I do hope you can post up pictures of these machines. They sound simply wonderful.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A tale I had to share posted by Matthew on 3/14/2007 at 4:02:51 PM

We are the new guard(ians) and we have to work hard, as you have, to earn the respect of the old guard. The account you have given us is a sign of acheiving something we all strive for but cannot earn or merit. No amount of networking, schmoozing or tapping up will ever get any of us into the sheds of gents like the one you met. I am not envious of you but I have huge respect for you and the judgement of the old gent. It isn't just the bikes or a lamp that he has given you, it is respect and a position of responsibility. All you have to do is live up to them both.

Matthew - in respectful mode.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A tale I had to share posted by Pete on 3/14/2007 at 5:31:39 PM
Maybe I have an over romantisized view on the situation as I dearly and deeply love old mechanical things especially bicycles and have always had a great fondness and admiration for older things and peoples values and respect for them and for their way of life.A time in history when possesions were treasured and not abused as they seem to be today and were always made so well with beauty added as well as functionality.
I must admit it did touch me the fact that he has entrusted me with something that he thinks so highly of and I hope that I will be a suitable guardian of said bikes.
Romantic feelings aside the old bikes will probably end up costing me a fortune to put right which at the moment I can ill afford due to health problem,but what is needed will be done to them (hopefully without having to fully restore them and loose the trueness factor which I believe to be so important)
With such things and irrelevant of monetary value we are never truly the owners of such things, more as you say the "guardians" of them until a time comes when you hand over the responsibility to a likewise minded suitable person.
Will keep you all informed with proceedings.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: A tale I had to share posted by Warren on 3/14/2007 at 7:28:12 PM
Great story. And someday you'll have a chance to pass those bikes on to another enthusiast. Good mojo. We can't take anything with us.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: A tale I had to share posted by Mark Stonich on 3/14/2007 at 8:34:05 PM
This can work both ways.

Last summer I was introduced to a gentleman who had led AYH tours though Europe in the '50s on English 3 speeds. When our mutual friend told him I was interested in the old English roadsters, he said he didn't think anyone cared about such things any more. And would I give his 1950 Norman a good home. The bike had sat for 30 years and had obviously seen a lot of use, but not abuse. Two months later I brought it back to show him the bike brought back into good operating condition. His eyes lit up like a kid at christmas when he took it for a spin. He didn't want it back, but thinks he might like to get back into cycling at 79. Probably on one of the modern "Comfort Bikes" as he lives near the intersection of several bike trails.

The next day I mentioned to one of the owners of Hiawatha Cyclery that my first good bike was a 1977 Centurion Pro Tour, set up as a poor mans Randonneur. Now that I'm into roadsters and recumbents, and have a stunning Jack Taylor SuperTourist, I just had no use for it. The Centurion had sat for 10 years as I wanted to find just the right person for it. Turns out it was him. He was born in '77, loves the bike, just the way I had it set up and it fits him like a glove.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: A tale I had to share posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 3/16/2007 at 2:19:19 AM
Excellent point Mark... we need to keep an eye out for the custodians of the future. Young ladies and gentlemen that are worthy of the legacy of our fine machines... be they our coveted sheffield steel, or a Centurion such as the one you describe.

I daresay our very own Kurt K.... is the quintessential example of such an individual.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   A tale I had to share posted by Andy on 3/16/2007 at 3:15:29 PM
I have an old 40's or 50's two-speed balloon tired bike that's been in my family for decades, called "The Mung." It weighs about sixty pounds and has two speeds: slow and slower. Ape-hangers, bendix hub, a thing of ragged beauty. It's either a JC Higgins or a Roadmaster, not sure.

But I'm always worried about it getting ripped off in my urban west coast city, so I'm thinking of sending back to the little town it came from in Northern California, to my brother. It has a 1965 registration plate from that town, and just seems like it belongs there.

I like the old guys point of keeping a bike in it's place, that's part of the heritage. I might send it up to him this summer, via Greyhound.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   raleigh gazelle posted by: Paul on 3/13/2007 at 3:19:52 PM
I just scored a Raleigh Grand Prix w\ Leather saddle on tne side of the road...only missing the front tire.
my question is its age...
it has a decal saying it was made by Gazelle under license from Raliegh in Holland, its bronze green no hud stamp(its a normandy\w\sturmy archer spoke guard)and the frame has a # stamped uner the frame below the crankcase 3021420.
it also had a leather saddle but i dont think it is a brooks. the name is worn down bit its english made and the name ends in (ts). Help please

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   raleigh gazelle posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 3/14/2007 at 2:36:30 AM
Nice find... firstly, the Gran Prix is not exactly a Roadster... so do post your question in the Vintage Lightweight section.. though, it may not quite qualify as one of those either.

Only thing I might suggest, though being an Holland import, this may not be helpful either... is to check the Raleigh serial number charts both here... and at Kurt K's website... Not sure of the URL for the latter but he's posted it here enough times, should not be hard to find.

Best of luck with the G.P. Nice machine and certainly an immense bargain for the price! ;-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   raleigh gazelle posted by David on 3/14/2007 at 8:23:57 AM
Probably a Wright's saddle. Brooks bought them out. In the mid-70s, a lot of Raleighs imported to the US were Dutch, Irish, etc built; especially popular models like the GP. Some of the GPs of that era have Brampton flip-flop rear hubs. Does yours?

AGE / VALUE:   28 x 1 1/2 Raleigh Westwood/Westrick Wheels or Rims posted by: Jeffrey Manta on 3/12/2007 at 4:03:35 PM
Just wondering if anybody had a minty set or atleast almost mint set of 28 x 1 1/2 Westwood/Westrick wheels or rims lying around that they might want to part with for a reasonable sum. I recently found my first Raleigh Dl-1 and it's a bit rugged around the edges, but I couldn't resist the challenge. Reminds me a little of that old Johnny Cash song about the cadillac, I think it was called "One Piece at a time". I think the frame is the only thing of worth, but I wouldn't even bet on that. I guess its probably a 1960, 1967, 1968, 1972, 1978 Raleigh DL-1? It's so bad it made me cringe, I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I first saw it, you know the feeling you get when you witness someone getting hit by a train or shot in the head with a large caliber hand gun.....but that's another story. I thought, who could do that to such a beautiful piece of history, such an exquisite engineering marvel. The rims look as though they were flattened by a steam rolled and somebody tried to straighten them out with a jackhammer. I'll take some pics and see if any of you bright folks can help me decifer the vintage of the frame if I can't do it
myself through Old Roads'database and Sheldon Brown. thanks for any help you can offer.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 x 1 1/2 Raleigh Westwood/Westrick Wheels or Rims posted by Pete on 3/13/2007 at 12:54:29 PM
Where you to Jeffrey? If you are in the Uk there are several places available where new rims can be purchased as I found out recently when having to buy one myself for an old bike.The only rims I could find though in the Westwood style were made in the Netherlands, I suspect due to the newer age of your bike you will probably be looking for Westrick type rims which I should imagine are more plentiful.I will dig out the web addresses I found of suppliers and get back to you.
Cheers Pete.
PS Wouldn't it be useful if a links page to suppliers of different parts for British bikes was to be created and easily accessible from within Oldroads?
Can't someone out there get the idea started.....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 x 1 1/2 Raleigh Westwood/Westrick Wheels or Rims posted by Jeffrey Manta on 3/13/2007 at 3:19:22 PM
Unfortunately I haven't had much luck with the british suppliers responding to my emails. I'm currently living in California and have yet to find a supplier in the States. Here's the serial number for the bike (1287495)as found in front of the seat tube. I found nothing like it on Sheldon Browns serial list. So I'll try to get those pics out to you. thanks again.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 x 1 1/2 Raleigh Westwood/Westrick Wheels or Rims posted by Nick on 3/18/2007 at 2:09:34 PM
Derek at www.oldbiketrader.co.uk normally has the rims you need. If he doesn't then Paul Stiyosh at www.cyclesofyesteryear.com has plenty. He has supplied me with brand new Vanschothorst stainless rims for very good money. I've already put 3000 miles on one set in 6 months, in fact did 75miles today in the biggest hailstorm from hell(good old British Weather), but it was still a good ride. Hope that helps, cheers, Nick.