ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Phillips "barrel" hubs posted by: David Poston on 7/31/2008 at 7:34:16 AM
OK, so I'm finally getting around to putting together my c. 1950s Phillips 28" roadster. I am downgrading the rear dynothree hub to a single speed hub, and I need to know the correct type of hub for this bike. The front hub seems a bit fat--is this a barrel style hub? When were barrel hubs used for Phillips bikes, and when were the regular skinnier versions used? I have seen both single speed types of hubs with "phillips" stamped on them.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Phillips posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 11:47:33 AM
Yes, Phillips used fat barrel style hubs in some of their bikes, I believe that these gave way to the front hubs being of the thinner type as tine went on. Phillips was shut down in 1960. The Raleigh factory began making the Phillips bikes in Nottingham and a lot of Phillips employees were out of a job. I love Phillips bikes, the pedals, the roller skates, the bells, all the unique stuff that was Phillips. The merger resulted in people walking into the wonderous, huge operation that was Phillips and it all was shut down. Where did all the tooling go? the collection that the Phillips company held? the old bicycles? the back stocks of parts? My God!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Phillips posted by Stephen Hogben on 7/31/2008 at 4:04:45 PM
I have a 1934 Phillips gents bike and it has a big brass bell on it,I have often wondered if this was an origonal part.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by: spencer on 7/31/2008 at 5:39:55 AM
I saw an OldRoads archival 2000 message from Christopher Robin in which the Raleigh plant in Kano, Nigeria was discussed. I still wonder whether my Nassau purchased cycle which has a rear sprocket stamped "made in Nigeria" and a serial number KS800042 might be a Nigerian made bike. It is pretty "plain jane" with no dynohub, no lamp, an odd rear reflector and a rough rear rack. Its photos are on this site and much has been made of it. I looked at Hero's website and doubt that my bike is a rebadged Hero, why do it anyway?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by Kurt K. on 7/31/2008 at 7:24:29 AM
It's a possibility. That would explain the "K," though it would also necessitate a confirmed Nigerian-made Raleigh to check the serial number against.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 9:08:17 AM
Hello Spencer, Christopher Robin here, still. I got the number somehow and rang them up and requested catalogs then I struck up a phone conversation with a gal there. I discovered that the African Raleigh's were every bit as as good then (1980's) at that late date as Raleigh was in England years ago.

Stunning! Black, flamenco( candy apple red) or blue for ladies double or single top tubes, 26 inch frames could be ordered, enclosed chaincases single speed hubs, seems that out in the wild you don't want to be fiddling with the adjustment of the Sturmey- Archer 3 speed but they had a prefrence for single speed hubs there now the bikes were dazzling but ithen it got better! Raleigh South africa was doing the hyperdrive jump into light speed. They were attaching motors to the bikes, improved motors better than what they added to Raleigh and Phillips machines back in the 1950's in England. I had a picture of a few bigwigs astride the bikes with the workers gathered around in a circle it made for an interesting picture. It was coming together beautifully and I was told there was not any licencing bullsh*t for the owners to have to deal with no licence was required.
Quality was top shelf. the best. I had pictures sent. I found the gal totally delicous to speak with and so I asked for a price for the machine, crated and delivered to Canada. It was going to the States from Canada from there. I was swallowing up two shops, whole. It was paradise, and I did not have to compete with the likes of Hillary Stone! The bike was going to the states, or it was going to stay in the shop in Canada where I was (still do) keeping some of the collection. The U.S.A. had a trade embargo against South Africa at the time. I got the price and bank hassles fixed and the transport company ( shipping) bit hard again and drew blood and was about to wire the funds when I called to ask some final question I had. She told me that Raleigh England or (perhaps it was T.I.) was shutting them down and that she was going to loose her job! I sat there with the phone reciever and listened to Veronica weep and weep and apologise over and over. She was afraid I had gone thru with the wire but I was minutes from sending it. If it's possible to fall in love with a gal simply by the sound of her voice it was then. I thought seroisly of traveling there to meet this angel in person. She had an accent! Yow. Anyways, so the carmine red, motorized Raleigh with that gold box lining vaporized right there. The worst kick in the balls was that this aspect of Raleigh was passing into history (had passed) and that I missed out on it. They all lost their jobs, those marvelous, magical, machines stoped rolling off of the assembly lines. The motorized versions were the ultra best part! Veronica left the country and I lost touch with her (and yes, I did have her number!) I was on a night shift, alone and I hung up the phone and howeled and screamed out aloud every curse word I knew against the whole board of T.I. and Raleigh in Nottingham. Not getting to own the bike, seeing that plant shut down and then this lovely, sweet lady losing her job.

I turned my attention to ringing up ever cycle shop in the country searching for one of the bikes that was already sold to a customer and trying to get the shop owner to referr me to the customer who owned it and getting funds into the hands of the owner and arranging shipping all over the phone and it was to difficult to pull off. I gave up. They are out there, somewhere, elusive as magical fairies. Not one has surfaced here on oldroads.com

Sadly, I did not get a clear idea as to the layout of the factory, what they held in stock , what the made and what was brough in from outside suppliers, and who they were. The factory had their phone lines cut I was told. I do not believe that your bike came anyplace out of Africa. I was told that the African market would be served by Taiwan.
I don't know the scene with Taiwan and Raleigh.
What happened to the tooling, jigs, and patterns from that magical place I do not know.

I decided to concentrate my energy on stripping Canada of here English bicycle heritage.

Not yet!


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 10:02:06 AM
I had a 1973 M.G. midget car. I bought it restored from the ground up. In the course of playing about chasing parts and romantic junkyears and suppliers I met a Japanese fellow who was putting in Honda motors and automatic transmissions in the stick shift British cars, leaving just a aunthentic outer body. It was the best of both worlds! I saw his collection of cars these included cars that were basically cars the Japanese had copied from the British from the ground up. They copied the body work, copied the British look, they re- created the Triumphs and a few M.G.'s I have never seen these before or since. Imagine a Triumph T.R. only it's all Japanese. It was strange to see in person, before you. This bike of Spencers, is like this. Not 100 % right. I don't know what to make of Spencer's bike. It's an interesting mystery. It doesn't fit the mold and that's what's cool about it. But not to me, personally and I came down hard on it. I am a purist myself, and I go kicking and screaming into the 1960's and 1970's and beyond because of changes in quality. If I offended you, I am sorry. Just keep on reading the other fellows posts here and read on and you will learn a lot about these bikes. The old British bicycle Loch- Ness is home to a lot of strange bikes and variations and that especially goes for some of the collectors, devotees, and strange fish like myself.
Explore, learn , ride, restore, enjoy, buy, sell, trade, and especially, lock it up properly and watch it or have somebody watch it because bicycles get stolen and the more special a bike is, the more it stands out and the more chance you have of getting it taken from you.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 10:06:26 AM
I brought my 28 inch Raleigh Tourist into the Chinese all you can eat place for lunch so it would not get ripped off and they all (the employees) got around it and they quietly looked it over... like it was visiting royalty. It was strange.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: raleigh dl-1 serial number posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 10:18:00 AM
What happened was, the British opened up factories and assembly shops in foreign countries to meet demand and then those countries wanted to make their own bicycles and the British lost control. Factories that were once Tube investments, and B.C.C.changed ownership and they started to make the same bikes but with other names and minor changes to them. These countries all wanted to make bicycles, on their own and many of them did and still do, and so we are dealing with this legacy still.

Yours has the Nottingham, England decals on it, the 1970's versions of the Nottingahm decals but the overall look of the bike does not fit properly. The parts like the headset, are weird and we are playing "Where did it come from?"

It's the perfect bike to humble "know it all's" like myself.

AGE / VALUE:   Pardon! posted by: sh on 7/30/2008 at 2:02:07 PM
Could anyone look a few messages back and see why I offended Chris? I like this site but now feel unwelcome. Yours faithfully Steve.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pardon! posted by Steve on 7/30/2008 at 3:18:27 PM
I hope I've got this right.

Stephen, we speak the same language, but it's completely different, I'm sure Chris was just expressing his opinion in a pictorially colourful way !

Hilary Stone releases some wonderful stuff for sale now and again, that could only have been acquired from life forms on a different planet (metaphorically speaking).
I've seen it for sale.

Old bikes are diminishing, it's only natural...and there's "nowt" we can do about that apart from save the odd little gem when we can.

Steve - I've been called a weirdo for most of my life !

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pardon! posted by Stephen Hogben on 7/30/2008 at 3:39:45 PM
thaks steve

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pardon! posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 9:40:24 AM
You did not offend me. I want you to always feel welcome here. Feel free, to take the wheel and steer the ship, take the stage! I only speak for myself. Vin is the man in charge. Not I. This is the best group on the net for these bikes. The other folks who post here, are too good, the sparkle from the other gems we have here the rest of the gang is too good to be missed. Don't mind me.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pardon! posted by Chris on 7/31/2008 at 10:35:08 AM
Hillary stone is a wealthy mega- collector in England. He runs ads, and sweeps in thru the cycle and autojumbles and buys everything and he's super savvy and shrewd. He buys a lot. He's like J.P.Morgan. He sells on e- bay and offers all the best goodies for sale. He's like a mega- demigod and we all sit and wonder "where he gets this stuff?"

I'm jealous of Hillary Stone. It drives me crazy. Wondering about all the marvelous fun he's having beating us to the punch getting to buy up this and that stash and he's always right there at the right moment. The man is a master at this and he's rich from his pursuits of classic bikes.
He writes for Cycling, he an vintage bicycle historian and he drives us all crazy. Listen to, learn from, and study Hillary, he's one of our best living teachers. He makes a nice living from buying and re- selling French and British bicyles and we all fall short, crumbled before him at his feet. He's my hero, the old bike pirate "sailing the seven seas" I yearn to become but will never be. I want to move to Europe and get underfoot and in his way and take him on in his own turf. If all the old bikes are disappearing it is because Hillary has found a new way to scoop up all the vintage goodies. I have to go and infiltratea local thrift store. I wonder why "none of the good stuff" gets put out on the floor. The thrift store owner who has the back yard full of old bikes here in Texas I am trying to get into to examine without getting shot, dog bit, head bashed in with a baseball bat, e.t.c. Texas is tough territory to work, rough neighborhood, I have to tell the gang and drug dealers I don't want a bottle of beer and where is the guy with all the bikes? I am on the verge of a breakthrough, he had some nice stuff inside the fence.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Lifes Hard ! posted by: Steve on 7/30/2008 at 9:54:22 AM

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Lifes Hard ! posted by bc on 7/30/2008 at 11:57:09 AM
"could someone please explain to me what she means by the above statement."

Simple, When she got off the bike and looked at the wheel that was making noise it was the one on the left.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Lifes Hard ! posted by Steve on 7/30/2008 at 12:49:32 PM
I've just asked my wife which side of the bike does she get off from.

She says she can't remember, and is now looking at me (yes me) in that strange way (again)!


AGE / VALUE:   Serial number 498820, dyno 4 5T, 2 posted by: Loll on 7/30/2008 at 1:05:35 AM
I've just picked up an old Raleigh but I need help in identifying it's age.

It's a ladies model,Terry leather sprung saddle (not Brooks), dynamo lights, full chain case, raleigh pedals and is dark green.

It has a 3/4 speed sturmey archer...the serial number on this is 498820.

I've tried to find the frame number, but I don't really know how to locate it. Do I have to take the seat off?

The hub on the back wheel says Dyno 4 Four written in a diamond shape with 5T on the left hand side and 2 on the right...it then has a list of about 5/6 patent numbers on it.

I could add a picture, it's a really nice looking bike, I'm just interested in it's age. Definitly don't want to sell it, I want to give it TLC and then ride it :)


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Serial number 498820, dyno 4 5T, 2 posted by loll on 7/30/2008 at 1:41:44 AM
I've found the frame serial number but it doesn't correspond with any of the raleigh frame numbers.

It's 6 digits long and from what I can work out is 964832. There is a possibiliy the 9 could be a 3 making it 364832.

Please help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Serial number 498820, dyno 4 5T, 2 posted by David on 7/30/2008 at 8:40:34 AM
There's probably a two-digit year stamped on the rear hub shell. Bike was probably built shortly after that and you're unlikely to get any closer to the build date.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Serial number 498820, dyno 4 5T, 2 posted by Alonzo on 7/30/2008 at 10:50:28 PM

5T 2

Maybe that T is really a seven. February 1957?

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Serial number 498820, dyno 4 5T, 2 posted by loll on 7/31/2008 at 5:25:02 AM
I think it must be February 1951 as the Sturmey Archer gears on this particular bike were manufactured between 1950 - 1953.