ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2 DL-1 Tourist de Luxe (rod lever & drum brakes) posted by: Christian Westberg on 8/3/2008 at 11:19:24 AM
Within a few months I have been lucky to get hold of 2 green Raleighs DL-1 (Tourist de Luxe) with rod lever and drum brakes: a ladies' and a gents' bicycle´- mine is from 1980 and my wife's is from 1978 as far as I recall from the hubs.
As soon as I have given them both a proper overhaul, I should be happy to share some pics of the 2 'pearls' with you.

Best regards
Christian Westberg

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   2 DL-1 Tourist de Luxe (rod lever & drum brakes) posted by Christopher on 8/4/2008 at 10:35:02 AM
Would love to see them!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Almost "NO" old bikes ! posted by: Steve on 8/2/2008 at 12:55:54 PM
I may have mentioned before that I do quite a bit of travelling (nowhere near as much as I used to do) around England, and I make a mental note of things I see.

Well, today I was in one of our famous university cities and I had an hour "to kill" at the railway station.
What should I do :-

Sunbathe ? no, I haven't got the patience for that nonsense !
Count trains ? no, I grew out of that years ago !
Drink more coffee ? no, I'll explode if I drink anymore !
Go to the station bookstall ? no, I've read everything !

I know...lets go and do what everyone does when they're waiting for a train....count bikes !

Yes, It's off to the bike racks outside the station to see what's what !

Right, *loody hel*...I'm not counting that lot, I'll miss my train !

To simplify...each aisle has 20 bike stands/hoops at 2 bikes per hoop and there's 12 aisles whilst there's a smattering of bikes around the station which equated roughly to a total of 510 bikes...if you've now fallen asleep or put your head in the micro-wave, I fully understand...so don't feel guilty.

Now, I did walk up and down each aisle (I must admit that I did feel guilty doing this and felt as though big brother was watching me and that I was going to be pounced upon by security at any moment) specifically looking out for any bike that would be of interest to this DB.

Here's the result (it won't take long) !

Bikes scanned (with my eyes) = 510 approx.

Interesting bikes = 4 (yes 4) !

Makes:- 1 x BSA, Hercules, Raleigh (all well worn 26" rodders pre 1960) and 1 fantastic tatty but original low gravity Raleigh trade bike (I wouldn't dare to leave mine there...not unless I electrified it).

So there you have it... 0.78% were interesting !

For you folks that like the later cable stuff, I did notice Caprice and Palm Beach brands (not many) but my above figures were based purely on original rod bikes (not retros).

So there you have it in a nut shell...almost NO old bikes !

Steve - I really must get out more !


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Almost posted by Pete on 8/3/2008 at 4:14:39 PM
I must be an anorak also as I find myself doing the same thing on my numerous hospital visits.Surveying all the bikes in the numerous racks outside all the buildings I have yet to see an older proper or even remotely interesting bike amongst them,just rows and rows of cheaply made modern metal.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Almost posted by Matthew on 8/4/2008 at 2:43:14 AM
Anorak on and pencil in hand I will venture forth into the unknown and delve into the dark corners of East Anglia to see what I can see.

Matthew - stoning no terns

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Almost posted by Steve on 8/9/2008 at 1:02:38 PM
Just got back from family cycling holiday on the South Coast of England, lovely weather, one puncture (at the 34th mile)...it just had to be my bike didn't it (high gravity trade bike, doubling up as the breakdown truck) !

My "anorak" has just got soaked on the final three miles to home.
Seriously, cycle helmet came to the rescue of my eight year old...I won't bore you with all the details, but if you do have a naughty incident going down a steep hill with a bend on a wet road surface...IT COULD SAVE YOU !

Steve - bikes in the garage all dried off.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Almost posted by Matthew on 8/6/2008 at 1:40:17 PM
Two days of looking far too closely at other cyclists and parked bicycles. One Phillips Mahattan and no other roadsters at all. Two ladies one of whom may have been on a Raleigh (not Chevy) Caprice. This is in Norwich I think Great Yarmouth would reveal more.

Matthew - its not the way you walk, its what you ride.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Correct Saddle posted by: john on 8/1/2008 at 5:36:24 PM
Greetings: I recently purchased a Raleigh Sports with SA WA hub with date code 68. I'm assuming the bike is a 68 or 69 and it is extremely nice and appears very original down to the Dunlop tires and frame pump. The saddle was covered with a spongy type cover and when I took this off the saddle(vinyl) did not impress me as "right" for this bike. I couldn't find any markings and it seemed a bit small. Can anyone direct me to a site that would show a photo of the correct saddle. I did some surfing but haven't been able to find a photo. Thanks. john

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Correct Saddle posted by Warren on 8/1/2008 at 5:55:06 PM
The vinyl seat was stock on some models. The closest new saddle is a Brooks B66 or try to find a B72 on ebay. Google away...they're everywhere.

Where do you live? Someone may direct you top a good local shop.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Correct Saddle posted by john on 8/2/2008 at 9:51:38 AM
It's that vinyl seat I'm looking for photo. Would it have been marked Brooks?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Correct Saddle posted by Warren on 8/2/2008 at 4:40:13 PM
It's black, vinyl and has Brooks written on the back.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Correct Saddle posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 8/4/2008 at 2:20:15 AM
Sounds to me like what we've oft referred to as the Brooks "Mattress" saddle....

Quite common on lower priced models and later (70's and such) 5 and 10 speed Sprites

Not for nothing, but I rather like them although they do tend to squeak a bit from time to time. Nu-Vinyl make's them look nice and can preserve the vinyl... just use caution as they can become quite slippery.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - yet another variety of saddle oiling in my future.....

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Correct Saddle posted by john on 8/4/2008 at 12:13:12 PM
There are no markings on the saddle so guess I have an aftermarket saddle which is what I thought was the case. I have a vinyl Brooks that should be ok, but it would have been a lot nicer with leather. Thanks.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Correct Saddle posted by Chris on 8/4/2008 at 1:04:51 PM
Mine fell apart, raining parts onto the street.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Correct Saddle posted by Warren on 8/4/2008 at 4:00:25 PM
That's why I suggested you get a B66...your bum will thank you.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Which spokes do I need? posted by: David Poston on 8/1/2008 at 9:15:13 AM
I seem to be the only one posting lately, but here goes...

I need to know what type of spokes and length I need to rebuild the back wheel on my 1950s Phillips 28" roadster bike. Rims are 28 x 1 1/2" Westwood, and hub should be 40-hole single speed Phillips type. I want the spokes to match the patina of the front wheel if this is possible. Definitely not too shiny. Help, please.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by Warren on 8/1/2008 at 5:49:51 PM
Hi David...my Raleigh Spoke chart lists 12 1/16 for a standard rear hub on a 28 x 1 1/2" rim for a cross 4 build.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by David Poston on 8/2/2008 at 8:28:38 AM
Hi Warren

When you say "standard," do you mean that all hubs (with the exception of dynohubs) have the same diameter? Would a single speed Phillips hub be the same size spoke as a Sturmey Archer 3-speed? Finally, is this a standard size that my bike shop is likely to carry and would they know what I'm talking about if I say, "do a cross 4 build"?

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by David Poston on 8/2/2008 at 8:36:00 AM
OK, I just pulled out my c. 1951 Raleigh Spare Parts List (downloaded from online), and on page 31, top row, the chart says 12 3/32" for cross 4 for standard rear hub, 14 guage and plain.

Wonder why we got different results?

Still curious if my pre-Raleigh Phillips would be any different.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by Warren on 8/2/2008 at 4:47:59 PM
I think that standard was like a Perry coaster hub and that most hubs were similar enough to that. I wouldn't sweat the 1/16". However, an experienced wheel builder can take the measurement of your hub flange and cross reference with a Sutherlands manual and give you the right calculation. Personally I would just go with 12 3/32. Don't forget the rim washers.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Which spokes do I need? posted by David on 8/4/2008 at 5:08:38 AM
There's a spoke calculator Excel spreadsheet at Sheldon Brown's site that's very useful. It has a large database of hub and wheel measurements and you can add new ones easily. It gives accurate results. See

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Which spokes do I need? posted by Chris on 8/4/2008 at 10:45:29 AM
I sent you and e- mail

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Which spokes do I need? posted by David Poston on 8/4/2008 at 3:44:48 PM
Thanks guys for the replies. I think I have enough info in hand to take the wheel down to the local bike shop. The last remaining problem is...stainless or galvanized? Do they still make galvanized spokes? I know they're way outdated, but again I want the patina of the rear wheel to match the front?

How many of you are using stainless spokes? Anybody use galvanized? Shiny stainless spokes may not rust, but I fear they will look awfully new and out of place on an old, faded roadster bike.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by Alonzo on 8/4/2008 at 11:51:19 PM

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you might consider one more issue: 3-speed hubs have thin flanges. New spokes are made for today's thicker flanged hubs. So, when you lace a new spoke on a 3-speed hub, the spoke comes through the spoke hole at an odd angle. I've never broken a spoke, especially on a 40-hole roadster. But it's more prone to happen.

There are two solutions. One is to use brass spoke washers behind the head of each spoke, taking up the slack. Or try to find NOS Raleigh spokes.

Good luck finding galvanized spokes. I've only found them at shops that had a nice collection of Sturmey Archer fittings. Besides, it takes years for the galvanized spokes to get that nice patina. Might as well use the stainless ones. And try to shine up the front spokes.


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Which spokes do I need? posted by Chris on 8/12/2008 at 4:17:42 PM
Spoke washers for the old westwood rims are difficult to find.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by: David Poston on 8/1/2008 at 8:55:59 AM
I'm curious how many of you are using Woods valves for authenticity. Are they as reliable as Shrader type valves?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by Matthew on 8/1/2008 at 12:41:05 PM
Hi David,

I use both, Schrader 'cos they are much easier to get on with and woods because they are on my bikes already and with the right adaptor you can inflate them with a foot pump.

Matthew - gone with the wind

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by Keith Body on 8/1/2008 at 3:32:21 PM
Hi David, Here I go again. Woods valves used to work well, occasional replacement of the rubber, which will harden in time. Most of mine use Presta valves.(narrower)

Your Phillips front brake guide: is a standard guide for D to round forks, Phillips had a large wholesale component catalogue to the manufacturing and retail trade, including spokes, pedals, rod brake handlebars and parts, cable brakes etc.

Your spokes would have been 12.125 inches from memory, 14 gauge (2mm) crossed 4 and with a 3-speed hub, zinc plate does age fairly quickly. The old "westwood" rims were only single thickness in the centre, and had loose oval washers to help support the spokes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by sam on 8/3/2008 at 7:11:18 PM
I like the Shrader type threaded the full length of the stem.and core removal caps

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by Chris on 8/4/2008 at 11:09:32 AM
Somebody here once said they used slugs (as found in the garden) stuffed on the valve holes!

I think you cannot get recently made replacement woods valve inserts with rubber that is still soft and not hard. it dries out and the thing leaks. But in England, I don't know.

I use the newer presta valves as it is a more tight and reliable valve. The full threaded, schrader car type valves look awesome especially the cool valve caps!

I hate having to inflate a bike tire every few days.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Woods valve - are they reliable? posted by sam on 8/4/2008 at 7:35:46 PM
The rubber tubing can be found---but you'll have to go to a Dr.Office or med supply.