AGE / VALUE:   Phillips re-build. posted by: S.H. on 8/31/2008 at 1:28:24 PM
Starting re-build,had the bike about 15 years,bought it at a jumble sale to go to work on,and it has stayed at the back of the shed since!It has a John Bull red spot tyre on the back wheel (still ok) and a war grade rubber tyre on the front (completely perished) It of course has had its mandatory 3 coats of black household emulsion hand painted all over it!So no signs of any transfers on it,would it have any on it?The last bike I did only revealed its transfers as the paint stripper destroyed them!Any ideas on how to reveal them? maybe a gentle sanding,any tips welcome!Thanks to Matthew for identifying the age of the Sturmey Archer hub as 1934,but I wonder as the rear wheel is in the best condition of all the bike,has a 3 speed wheel been put on an earlier bike?The front wheel seems to have a wider rim than the rear.Also most of the bike(what remains)of the chrome work looks like chrome,but the front wheel looks more like nickel plate.Its brass gear change is on the cross bar.Its handle bars are similar to the 1936 Rudge I have but more rounded and curve down lower.It has a big brass bell on it.Any imformation would be gratefuuly recieved!Thanks.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by: sandy tedford on 8/31/2008 at 7:23:11 AM
Hello all, Ok so I know nothing about bicycles but yesterday was given this beautiful old Raleigh. I have been trying to research to help date but now have to admit defeat and ask for help. This is what I know:

Rod Breaks
Raleigh emblems or lettering hidden under black paint on front, rear mud guard and chain guard.
One speed - no Sturmey-Archer hub so difficult to date
Serial Number 51900M

Photos at:

I have posted pictures to help and would really appreciate any info you can offer. EVERYTHING is of interest as I know absolutely nothing.

I have looked at the following two sites of model designs and it seems to be somewhere between the following: 1L, 2L, 3L & 11L, 12L & 13L

could this be right?? or is it a copy??

Many thanks for all help offered.



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 2:10:12 AM
At a quick glance I would say 1950's.

I hesitate slightly because I can't really tell if the chrome has worn away or if there never was any chrome parts (i.e. war time).
The mudguards are basic curve shape as opposed to fluted etc.
The rear rack could be earlier than the actual bike !

Serial numbers baffle me, but the manner in which they were applied can sometimes help to point towards a certain era.

Chain guard looks pretty basic.

At the end of the day, it's a nice single speed bike that could still do a "sterling" days work.

Steve - we've got a New Hudson here that is fairly similar and is as good as any modern day bike of similar proportions.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by sandy tedford on 9/1/2008 at 2:46:30 AM
Thank you so much!

I think the whole bike has been painted black at some point. If I was looking for chrome parts where would I look for them?



   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Pete F. on 9/1/2008 at 7:21:36 AM
I'd say a bit earlier than 1950s....the wheels look like they have 26" Westwood rims - I think by the 50s all the 26" models had Westrick. The front brake looks prety old as well. Are the tyres 26" by 1 1/2"? Bike looks like this: -

My guess would be no later than pre-war, or possibly very early post-war. I think Raleigh were engaged in war effort work for the duration.

Pete F.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 7:48:51 AM
A good percentage of elderly bikes have had black paint slapped all over them at some stage.

Chrome parts are available at various outlets via the internet, try ebay then work through a variety of the links (I doubt you'll get much from your local bike shop).

Remember, there's chrome parts and there's chrome parts, some of it is rubbish poor quality and some is o.k., if you're looking to do things prepared to spend money (yer pays yer money...yer takes yer choice) !

Re-chroming is a delicate subject, there were messages on this site about three/four weeks ago concerning this subject.

I'm certainly not a perfectionist and tend to use the "original patina" get out clause, having said that, it does look nice when things are twinkling in the sunshine.
Mind you, a good dousing with old waste oil never did any harm to my bikes (I did say I wasn't a perfectionist).

I certainly wouldn't chrome things if they weren't chromed in the first place.

Steve - it's only original once !

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 8:26:16 AM
Hi Pete, I must admit that the pump holders (detatchable type), chainwheel and cranks (black) had got me thinking.

The only thing I noticed about the wheels was...that they were round, but the very first thing I noticed was the £4.50 price tag on the pump...a red herring if ever there was one !
Would have been nice to have seen the original seat.

Steve - curious nevertheless


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by sandy tedford on 9/1/2008 at 8:57:34 AM
wow! brilliant - you guys are great.

Ok the tires are 26" x 1 & 3/8" if that helps. Looks like you are onto a winner with the catalogue pics thanks..... Sports Roadster 10L.

I am going to search now but where does that date it if it is that model?

Sorry about leaving the pump and price tag on it - worst thing is I didn't even notice. The bike was found at the tip on Sunday - so this is all very exciting. amazing what people throw away. everything seems to be working fingers crossed.

Enjoying all the advice about re-chroming. if you have any other suggestions or advice about what i should do then please feel free.

many thanks once again

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 10:04:01 AM
Just enjoy it and feel special (but different) !

Steve - never mainstream

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Matthew on 9/1/2008 at 10:23:55 AM
Okay here's my four penny worth.

Its pre WW2 just by the mudguards, which are not 'Raleigh pattern' so making the bike pre-date the late thirties. Its probably the version with no chrome which was offered as an 'all weather' model with no chrome to rust., flake or deteriorate.

Matthew - black is the new black?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Please help identify age..... thanks posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 11:08:16 AM
Good old Matthew !

It's great isn't something can lead to something else.
Mudguards, yes I've seen these before (and I have a vested interest here), can I take it that this style is always pre WW2...please please please, I'll never do anything naughty ever again, honest guv !

Going off at a slight tangent, it would be interesting to know how long the "common or garden" fluted mudguards with the go faster bullet on the front guard were actually in production for.

Steve - bonsoir

AGE / VALUE:   55 hub on ebay posted by: sam on 8/31/2008 at 3:15:52 AM
saw this on ebay:

FOR SALE:   Humber Bicycle posted by: brooks on 8/30/2008 at 2:47:23 PM
Hello - A very long story - but - I have an old Humber Bicycle for sale. Late 40's, early 50's. It is located in Norwalk, Conn. I would recommend that if interested, and wish to purchase, be able to pick it up. I will explain on telephone why shipping is not financially a great option. It's all there, but it needs work. Email me for details. First $100.00 owns the Humber.


    Humber Bicycle posted by Oh yes...forgot this info on 8/31/2008 at 6:17:34 PM
Yes - I can be reached at brookssaintives at aol dot com regarding questions. Thanks!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by: Steve on 8/30/2008 at 3:44:44 AM
Any ideas folks ?

Yes it's an elderly trade bike, but I've not come across one of these attachments before, it appears to have been there since "it's birth" !

I've had a tennis racket clamp on a front fork before but not one of these, I'm presuming there was a lever set up held by a pin (nut & bolt).

It couldn't have been a folding stand or even a security device (in the 1940's) could it ?

Steve - mystified


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Kevin on 9/1/2008 at 5:04:27 AM
Was the "leg" piece made of tubing, flattened at the top? There also must have been a spring clip to keep the leg in position while riding the bike. Does anyone out have a photo of a trade bike with a workable, drop-down prop stand of this kind? I have seen ads for Raleigh trade bikes (the variety with two 26-inch wheels) and there was no stand -- I guess you just leaned it against a building or a tree. A lightweight stand would be a handy, practical addition. I think one could easily be fabricated with a conduit clamp and a piece of scrap conduit.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Steve on 9/1/2008 at 9:58:16 AM
I must confess that my main interest is in trade bikes and I tend to secure pipe lagging to the cradle outers in order to protect them from scratching (it also helps to stabilise/grip etc when leaning against something), it's not pretty but it's effective.

The 26" models (high gravity) tend not to have stands and this is the first time I've come across one with this set-up (I have experimented with a traditional Roadster stand, but these bikes are simply to heavy...I haven't tried a "V" stand because I haven't got one, in fact I've never seen one apart from the modern day Pashley Post Office bikes).

Since first mentioning this, I have located one or two pictures of bikes (Gundles) with this attachment. I have since put the word out for a good photo (close up if possible) to see if one can be fabricated (as you say, I'm sure one can).

I would imagine that you're right...tubing flattened at the top in order to fit the bracket.

I'll download a good picture if I get one, please do likewise.



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 8/30/2008 at 4:56:50 AM
Good lord... is that thing fossilized? Just kiddin' around....

and that's an odd bracket most assuredly. I've not a clue.... I thhought from reading the post we might actually witness the legendary "Surfboard" mounting bracket in place... but no... :-S

What amazes me is even the "finish" on the tyres seem to match the balance of stuff. Still... a most awesome machine!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Someday I'll be that grizzled....

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Kevin on 8/30/2008 at 7:19:30 AM
It looks like a bracket for a folding drop stand. I have a Raleigh trade bike, and I wish I had one on mine -- in fact, I may steal the idea.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Chris on 8/30/2008 at 7:43:32 AM
its for a folding drop stand is my guess. oh, that finish. i envy you!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Down tube attachment. ? posted by Matthew on 8/31/2008 at 4:18:36 AM
Hi Steve & folks,

I'm just back from La Belle France & you guys are right on th money with this one. Its a side stand bracket, placed just where it will support the bike without having the whole affair go BB upwards. Obviously a full load in the basket would jeopardise stability but other wise its a cracker!

Matthew - je suis fatigue

PS Bike count en France, delivery bikes - nule pointe
Roadsters anciente - nule pointe
Roadsters retro - beaucoup des pointes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Steve on 9/5/2008 at 1:26:32 AM
Kevin, I've sent you a link (via e-mail) concerning the drop down prop stand. Hope you got it.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Kevin on 9/7/2008 at 3:17:52 AM
Steve -- I didn't get the email. WOUld you please send it again? Thanks. Kevin

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Steve on 9/7/2008 at 8:25:26 AM
Kevin, I've re-sent it to the aol dot com address (again).

Any problems or if you've changed your address, let me know.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Down tube attachment. ? posted by Kevin on 9/7/2008 at 3:51:54 PM
Steve -- Got it! Thanks so much. I had no idea there were so many images available of old English delivery bikes. Such bikes are rare in the States. I was told they were never actually imported for retail sale here. The few that we see were brought over independently.