AGE / VALUE:   Why some hubs have no date to it posted by: Chris on 9/18/2008 at 5:23:45 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that many times the factory workers were working on "piece rates" and they were hurrying to get things made and in the completed bin and more material in the press or machinery. But then again there was quality control and bosses watchng.

I cannot sucessfully answer the question why there are no dates on some hubs.

AGE / VALUE:   Tri- Ang slot cars Made in England posted by: Chris on 9/18/2008 at 5:19:39 PM
I had a boxed set of Tri - Ang toy slot cars go through my hands a year ago. Trashpicked the whole boxed set. Tri ang toys made in England. Another magical time and magical stuff. I wish I discovered and collected it sooner!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tri- Ang slot cars Made in England posted by Steve on 9/19/2008 at 1:53:12 AM
If I had saved (collected) everything I had as a child, I would be a very wealthy (and content) man by now !

Tri-ang, Minix, Hornby, Dinky, Matchbox, Dublo, Chad Valley etc etc, the list goes on.

I would also need three aeroplane hangers in order to display the stuff and of course...ride my Triang bike around.
Mind you I would have to remove the stableisers !

Steve - a logistical "Triumph" !

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tri- Ang slot cars Made in England posted by edgar X on 9/19/2008 at 8:42:46 AM
Eldon 1/32 scale slot cars. Great fun, you could really "drift" them things around corners, much better than HO scale.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tri- Ang slot cars Made in England posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/19/2008 at 4:32:17 PM
Gad... the auld Aurora "Thunderjet" slot cars were a blast... I still have a few of them as well as track, etc. Unlike their modern verions that can run up vertical surfaces.. you really had to "drive" them to keep them from flying off the track...

I had the complete set of original 1968 Hot Wheels as well... and even the much coveted "Boss Hoss Silver Special" Mustang you could only get by being in the "Hot Wheels" club.

I still have my original S gauge American Flyer Frontiersman electric train...

It's funny... I think that in no small part, the success of Ebay is attributable to folks buying back their childhood one auction at a time....



Larry "Boneman" Bone - pondering the price of his toys....

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Tri- Ang slot cars Made in England posted by Warren on 9/20/2008 at 9:41:56 AM
Man...I had the Boss Hoss and the full "wheel" set too. Wish I still did.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Tri- Ang slot cars, estate sales, fun times posted by Chris on 9/20/2008 at 7:44:17 PM
The carpenter that I had do woodwork in my old house, he and his wife bought a house of their own and cleaned it out and it was a real mess. He supposedly, found boxes and boxes of vintage collectable cars and stuff and after selling it off on e- bay he had made over $60,000 from the sale of what he found in the house.

Stunned at what people leave behind!
As a child, I remember...
I opened the door to my grandmothers bedroom without knocking and she was sitting on the bed with money literally all over, piled up in piles all over the bedspread counting. I was told to shut up so she would not forget the figure in her head. She was up over $20,000... and she was from the depression era. This comes in handy when the electricity blackout occurs and nobody can process your credit/ debit card sale as the computer is down as it is ALL run by electricity this way you can eat, as cash is all they will accept at the local marklet or the pizza place on the corner. Rather not so brilliant of a plan generally due to fire or theft and you can't have anybody in to do any work in your home until you clean out your treasures BEFORE they come in. If you foreget, THEY will clean it out for you and it happens all the time , plus people are nosey as all heck!

There was a hobby shop on Woodward Ave, in Royal Oak, near Detroit and they had a huge slot car track and this particular hobby shop was heaven for slot car fans. they had clubs and it was a huge track. Those were fun times.
I have fond memories of an estate sale where I turned down the offer of skinny dipping in the mansion's pool but accepting and buying up all the collectable slot/ model, clockwork toy cars at give away prices. She had a bottle of wine and was already toasted when I pulled up the driveway. If I get caught and shot by somebody's husband, who is gonna re-sell off and enjoy the goodies on the table? It's a matter of Priorities!

AGE / VALUE:   I miss Sheldon Brown posted by: Chris on 9/18/2008 at 4:50:49 PM
It's been ahwile since we lost him, but it hurts knowing that Sheldon is no longer with us. I think of how he used to fall down due to his illness and not be able to get back up until somebody came home. With all the people worldwide who adored Sheldon and here he was, sitting alone unable to get back up onto his feet. His journal tells about what all he went thru.
Then the heart attack, and he's gone. Like losing the bright and morning star. Yes, still reeling.
Sheldon was probably trying to get to the computer to answer all his e- mail's too.

Anyways, I think about all the bike people I have ran across and met and dealt with in person who are no longer with us.
For me, there has been a lot that are now gone and I miss them.
One friend had a stroke and his speech went and he offered me his space at the flea market. It kicked the wind out of me. His speech came back, he's the same as before and crying turns to laughter but he's lucky to have made it back and I'm lucky to have more time with him.

If there is somebody you have not called in awhile, or visdited with, or that bike collector who has that stuff in the barn that you were wanting to buy up. either business or personal things.

Do it now!
Things happen.

We don't know what happened to Sheldon's bike collection, do we?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I miss Sheldon Brown posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/19/2008 at 4:39:26 PM
I had on occaision corresponded with the late Mr. Brown pursuant to his wonderful "advertisement"... I believe he called it "Product W"....

Seeing as I work in the R&D Facility adjacent to where 60 or so metric tonnes of M&M's are made every day, I found his togue-in-cheek article hysterical and charming for certain.

Can't quite recall precisely.. I know he left us pursuant to an heart attack... but was he not afflicted with M.S. as well? I seem to have a nebulous recollection.... Nasty business that... my fiance is so afflicted and it can be very dicey.

Anyhow... a bright, shining star... a font of knowledge and an absolutely devilish and eccentric sense of humour...

As with the passing of so many... the world seems diminished once they have left it.

I hope rod brakes work better amongst the clouds then they do down here in the fog, aye?


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Mr. Brown, sir, we do miss you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: I miss Sheldon Brown posted by Matthew on 9/20/2008 at 12:24:57 AM
There is a place wherein the hills roll gently ever downwards. The sunshine always falls upon one's back and the breeze skips gladly behind. Fresh meadows await a picnic, birds sing sweetly, beasts of field and forest go about their business unfettered and yet hinder not the pace of a cyclist. Quiet resting places abound and company is good. Streams rush by busily filling distant lakes. Distant snow capped peaks look down benignly upon those enjoying a journey. The peace is all encompassing and there are no cars. In a place such as this the eternal cyclist may hope to abide.

Matthew - in thoughtful mode.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: I miss Sheldon Brown posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/20/2008 at 6:37:43 AM
Well stated sir.

Don't know if anyone else agrees... but in my time here, I've come to know this discussion board as truly one of the last bastions of eloquence, proper spelling (British and or "American"), grammer... and downright civility on the entire internet.

Even the disagreements... as few and far between as they've been... are downright civil.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - with humble reverance....


AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by: sam on 9/18/2008 at 3:01:53 PM
so what's the largest S/A cog made for there 3 speeds? Is 22 the largest they made?
I'm sure other brands of cogs could have been used but my question is limited to options offered by S/A.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by Chris on 9/18/2008 at 4:34:01 PM
Sam, 22 tooth is the largest Sturmey- Archer made, or felt comfortable making. Tony Hadland writes in his book that Sturmey Archer "could not warrentee a hub with anything larger than a 22 tooth cog." They were afraid they would get into trouble with customers tearing up hubs and then wanting their money back.

I remember in my Brown Brother catalog while leafing through the pages and seeing that,
Back in the day, companies like the Cyclo gear company had display boards with individual cogs that were the screw type and so much of this did fit onto the threaded sturmey archer type drivers and people mixed and matched and came up with things that were a bit outside the box we got away with that if the threading just happen to match and jive together. These days, unless you are a mega collector with a huge stash ( parts bins full of goodies) to draw from
it gets harder. I remember all the cogs and some got quite large.
I believe it was Sheldon's shop, Harris and the Harris website that was offering us a 24 tooth cog made by the German Sachs company I believe. I found a skip tooth cog that threaded onto the threaded driver. You have to dwell in the way older stuff to solve problems and create with neat stuff. As time went on the variety and selection lessened, making crazy projects less possible. Today, as you know people use deraileur clusters that they break apart using the individual cogs but that is using deraileur cogs. My daughter tore up my Brown Brothers book as it was on my desk, about to be scanned onto a disc. I was going to offer the discs here, on That never happened and I feel that I failed the whole group here. The fellow who did succeed in getting the Brown Brothers catalog copied onto disc and sold on e- bay was Bruce Robbins From Angus, Scotland. I don't have his e- mail address either.

I am sorry I don't have a disc of that information to sell, gift, or lend.

You have to find the Brown Brothers catalogs on e- bay and add it to your library, or find Bruce and buy a disc. To everybody here I suggest that you buy the old bicycle books, literature, posters and scan and add it to the internet.

I paid thru the nose for a collectable book and I lent it out and can't get it back. The guy was delighted to get it, he devoured it and he and the book disappeared into a black hole never to be seen again. Don't lend out originals.

Another really stupid ting I did was to buy up a collectable German distributor book beating out the Bughatti Trust people and they were disbelieving how much I bid it up and beat them out. I refused to make them copies and I pissed them off, big time and I had paid a lot to have it copied onto double sided pages on primo paper and it was in a box heading to be scanned onto a disc that was to be sold and scattered thru the hobby like johnny Appleseed seeds. Oh, how the collectors would have flipped out to see that book. The Germans did cotterless cranks back in the 1920'sd and such quality! The Bugatti company had their bikes in the book and that is why the Bughatti trust people so dearly wanted the book. I lost the box and the origional book.
The Brown Brothers catalog got destroyed. I guess I'm not good in holding onto the vintage bike literature I find. I can find, it but fail at getting it onto disc or copied.

My very best suggestion is to open up a e- mail coorespondence with Hillary Stone who sells parts and goodies on e- bay. I don't have his e- mail address.
This is like me pointing to the top of Mount. Maccu Picu and advising that you "go see the oldest and wisest man in our village." It's worth the climb.

Does anybody here have Hillary Stone's e- mail address? I would also like to ask that the other readers here also give Sam their two cents worth, so he has more than just me answering this thread.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by David Poston on 9/18/2008 at 9:10:09 PM

I was just thinking of ordering a large SA sprocket from Harris Cyclery for my 1952 Phillips, maybe a 21 or 22 tooth to replace the 18 tooth one. However, do you think the chain will be long enough? The chainwheel is 48 teeth.

I'm curious what kind of gearing the rest of you guys are using for your 3-speed bikes.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/19/2008 at 2:27:57 AM
I put a 22T on the rear of the DL-1. For the hills here in the Pocono Mts. it's been a lifesaver. I've been riding it to beat the band the past two weeks because it's been such a pleasure.

Before that... it had an 18T... I upped it to 19T and it was still quite daunting. Now? I rolled 4 miles last night... using the bottle genny the whole time and while certainly excersize... not burdensome.

Yes... I had to add links to the chain.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - reCOGnizable improvement!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by edgar X on 9/19/2008 at 9:11:00 AM
I've got a 24-tooth Bendix cog on the rear of my Schwinn w/Sturmey 5-speed. There's no "dish" to this cog, and it lines up great. Love that low gear range. Glenn's recommends setting it up so that "direct drive" - the middle gear - is where you pedal the most.


   RE:AGE / VALUE: what's the largest S/A cog posted by sam on 9/19/2008 at 2:15:59 PM
I agree with Larry that a 22 tooth cog is better than the original 18.Fact is I've ridden Larry's DL-1 with the 18 cog and it really made my legs hurt.Larry's dl-1 was bought in Houston at a swap and show--I sold it to Robert who sold it to Larry---you know these bike gotta stay in the Family!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: what's the largest S/A cog posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/19/2008 at 4:44:02 PM
Provenance... for certain. Robert was so kind to sell the machine to me back then. I just came in from a 4 mile jaunt on it not but minutes ago... dodging deer and turkey.... no bear tonight thankfully.

An absolute pleasure with that new cog back there. I wish I had done it long before now!

The Bike sez HELLO SAM! ;-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone - sometimes I do wish they COULD talk! What tales they could tell!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: what's the largest S/A cog posted by Chris on 9/19/2008 at 6:01:02 PM
I was able to fit the 22 tooth cogs inside the enclosed chaincases by the way, without any problem I have had to add chain past 20 tooth and no problem. Many times it's the original chain with the snap apart ends. You just add a link.
Glad to hear that the flat cog didn't give you a hassle but there are times when it does. Yes, the bikes go round and round, they have lives of their own.

The best thing about keeping them in the family is that they are understood, appreciated, properly cared for and enjoyed as they are supposed to be.


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by Matthew on 9/20/2008 at 12:31:32 AM
Sorry folks; I can't help it.

There are NO cogs on any of your bicycles!

You have two sprockets, at least, but cogs are applewood teeth on the gear wheels of wind mills.

Matthew - help! Is there a Pedants anonymous?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/20/2008 at 6:32:57 AM
Well then... see here now... I have Spacely Sprockets on the FRONT and Cogswell Cogs on the BACK... of all my machines.


And yes even so... my car has a boot a bonnet, wings... an all that!

Interestingly enough... the motorbike only has sprockets...

meanwhile... being the logophile I am... and in an attempt to ameliorate a sudden bout of obfuscation... as I've always done... I looked them both up. of course... alas... should I need to I could crack the unabridged... but for now... the aforementioned seems to spell it out clearly enough.

Most interesting.... that sprockets are also called chain wheels... whereas it would seem a cog is more just a tooth on a gearwheel.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention Matthew. So... hence and forthwith... "Rear Sprocket" may be a more appropriate term?



Larry "Boneman" Bone - I can hear the cogs.. er... gears... in my head grinding over this one....


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by David Poston on 9/20/2008 at 10:55:43 AM
Regarding upgrading to a 22-tooth rear sprocket, does this mean I should buy TWO new chains to get enough links? 114 links won't be enough?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by Keith Body on 9/20/2008 at 3:45:34 PM
I sent Hilary Stone an email "hilary dot stone at" a few weeks ago, no reply but not returned. I live some 20 miles from the last address I have for him in Bristol, UK.
SA preferred to supply hubs with 18 t, they just did not cope with enthusiastic pedalling even with those. I could take the teeth off the planets by just pedalling.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/20/2008 at 4:49:22 PM
As I recall, I did procure two new chains when putting tha large sprocket... cog... chainwheel... on the back. You may only need a few links from chain number two... That's all I recall I needed. Do retain the balance though... just in case you need additional links for other such chain "extensions".


Larry "Boneman" Bone - better to have... and not need, eh?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by Chris on 9/20/2008 at 7:51:01 PM
Mathew is correct. I guess my incorectly saying "cog" is a result from my using gasoline to clean bike parts awhile ago. A very stupid thing to have done. I didn't get blown up I just now say "cog" instead of sprocket.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Pedant alert! posted by Chris on 9/20/2008 at 7:59:12 PM
Yes, we all buy two chains and use what we need and save the rest. It's what we do.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what's the largest S/A cog posted by Steve on 9/20/2008 at 11:42:08 PM
Currently re-chaining five trade bikes (cycle trucks) with six 3/16" chains.
Funny how you learn things...for some reason I expected all chain stays to be the same length...but they're NOT !

Steve - an inch away !

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Abley Bicycle Works, Ltd posted by: Pete on 9/18/2008 at 5:25:09 AM
I've recently come in posession of an Abley bicycle, which I assume to be an older English road bike. Touring style, rod brakes that actuate against the inside of the rims, lugged steel frame, except the seat stays are bolted on, (not brazed). The seat is pretty exotic; looks to be leather supported by coil springs, each rear springs coils are actually pairs of twisted wire.

I can't find any reference to this bike or manufacturer with Google search. This site has a few hits on older discussion boards, but I can't find the actual discussion (might be deleted or archived)

Anyone have any idea where/when these were produced, if at all?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Abley Bicycle Works, Ltd posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/18/2008 at 10:56:16 AM
Made in India. Probably still being made there. I have one that I procured new off Ebay... as received in this country directly from the manufacturer.

I found it to be of such dubious quality, I never really got up the motivation to even assemble it.

Best of luck with it for certain.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - using it for spares....