This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   Psycho Pspouse? posted by: Oscar on 11/22/2000 at 5:32:31 AM
After reading the fall-down stories, below, I keyed into something that periodically goes on with my wife. Lately when I head out the door for a ride, the wife gets wild eyed and tells me PLEASE BE CAREFUL. She lets out a sigh of relief when I return home.

Ok, anything can happen to anyone anywhere, but my track record for always coming home alive doesn't seem to calm her. And when I do crash, I never fess up as long as I can suppress a limp and can hide a bruise.

Of course, she doesn't want to lose a breadwinner, coparent, basement cleaner, hubby and bedwarmer. But come on, just let me ride without creeping me out!

   ditto posted by John E on 11/22/2000 at 9:56:19 AM
I have had the same situation at home, ever since I was hit by an errant automobile 24 years ago. Being aware of (and reminded of) the danger is probably healthy, as is having someone who genuinely cares about one's well-being. All of the statistics I have seen support my contention that, for the cautious, lawful vehicular adult cyclist, the mental and physical health benefits of cycling far outweigh the obvious risk. (Our fatality rate per mile is actually a bit lower than a motorist's.) Choose your routes carefully, stay alert, and for recreational cycling, choose your time of day and weather conditions, as well.

   RE:MISC:   Psycho Pspouse? posted by Wings on 11/24/2000 at 9:39:20 PM
I get: "Are you going to ride the recumbent?" Being lower and less visible adds to the fear.
Perhaps we should worry when they say during the peak of rush hour traffic: "Why don't you take a long fast ride -- really let it rip!"

AGE / VALUE:   Not together today posted by: sam on 11/22/2000 at 4:54:36 AM
O.K. got the old chain off how do I get the new one on,all I ever had used a master link??

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not together today posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 5:45:16 AM
Visit Sheldon Brown's site for instructions -- www.sheldonbrown.com Buy a Park brand or other high-quality chain tool (don't mess with the cheapo, tinny Taiwanese tools).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Not together today posted by sam on 11/22/2000 at 9:08:54 AM
Thanks Kith,knew you'd come thru on this--sam

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by: Brian L. on 11/21/2000 at 8:40:53 AM
It was a beautiful, clear morning - following a cold, foggy night. I laid the Bob Jackson over on a left-hand sweeper on long, steep descent in Blue Ridge. Bare asphalt road facing the ocean. Black ice. Big ol' raw raspberry on my hip. Things could have been worse since I didn't go down on the drive side, but I shredded my beautiful euro-pro, full-zip, long-sleeve wool jersey, dammit. Maybe the local seamstress can perform triage. Mornings are my only time to get in some miles, and now I'm wondering.

The inner-tube handlebar tape came through with narry a scratch. This stuff works great for winter riding: it's a good insulator and has great grip. Lousy in warm weather, though, as it gets sticky and leaves black residue.

Just when we figured out how to dress in cold weather, there's this new threat.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Michael on 11/21/2000 at 9:07:05 AM
Be careful that tape doesnt hide a dent in the bars. If you get away with a grazing, it can mean that the bike absorbed the impact. Keep an eye on the bars and cranks for any damage or hairline-cracks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Keith on 11/21/2000 at 9:46:07 AM
Yesterday morning it was 27f with a significant wind chill, and had snowed. More significantly, the bike path, which is never salted, had lots of black ice. My rear wheel slipped sideways twice, but I was lucky and didn't go down. On the advice of my wife, and a couple of bike commuter friends, I took the bus home. Adding darkness to the ice and cold didn't sound safe or fun. I have rollers at work and at home -- maybe I'll start using them when it's like this. It's not the same, but as a friend suggested, a bad crash can take keep you off a bike for months (another friend just got out of a sling after badly breaking his collar bone when he crashed his bike downtown). Glad you're not hurt too badly, Brian!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Art on 11/21/2000 at 10:13:18 AM
I start thinking 40 degree mornings, overcast, windy days are bad weather and then I realize how lucky I have it during the winter months. I, too, Brian am glad you didn't get baddly hurt. The older I get the harder the ground is. It's the pain two days after a crash that's the worst. I don't remember getting beat up so much when I fell as a kid. Be careful!

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Oscar on 11/21/2000 at 11:22:26 AM
The wind was such a drag today that I didn't even go fast enough to crash if I slipped. Knobbie tires, heavy bike, high wind light snow on the ground.

   Blasphemous but what the hey... posted by Ray on 11/21/2000 at 12:24:38 PM
I know this is not the right thing to say but here goes. I am fortunate (or unfortunate)to have a wide range of seasons here in NJ. I can ride a road bike in the warmer drier weather but would not attempt it in icy, wet cold conditions. I will take out my trusty Mountain Bike (there is that dirty word) and get my miles in that way. Yes the ride is different and yes it is more strenuous but I can ride year round without the fear of mating with the pavement. Another side benefit, wait to you see how the road bike feels after riding the winter months on a mountain bike. You will think you are riding like Armstrong and enjoy the experience even more than before. Oh, I did grimice when I read that you tipped a Bob Jackson. Like any true biker did you first worry how the bike was before youself?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Brian L. on 11/21/2000 at 3:46:33 PM
Thanks for the expressions of concern. Bob, and the bars appear to be okay. The hip is tender. With all due respect to Ray, I've ridden knobbies in slick conditions, and overall, I think their performance on paved road surfaces is even more dicey than street tires. As some of you may know, I got Bob at a swap meet for $85. Appearead to have been ridden hard and put away wet. Finish aside, the ride is great and the original Olympic commemorative graphics are still way cool. These bikes were meant to ride. If I'd crashed a mint Colnago/Paramount/Hetchins etc I'd be more broken up. As I said, I'm mostly bummed about my jersey and the fact that I may have to curtail my early-morning sojourns. Really no good low-traffic road between work and home that isn't hilly with good crash potential. I feel fortunate that there wasn't a car coming the other way.

   tyres for inclement weather posted by John E on 11/21/2000 at 6:26:41 PM
1) Get well soon, Brian!
2) I agree that knobbies may not be safer than street touring tyres on a wet road, but they are more secure than the skinny 23mm Continentals on my Bianchi, which is strictly a fair-weather toy. (It's cheaper than a Ferrari and more effective in mid-life crisis.) For wet conditions, I like my old long wheelbased road bike with its 32mm tyres.
3) Did everyone notice that Brooks is back in business? I wish the management buyout well and just might buy another Professional as a gesture of support.

   RE:tyres for inclement weather posted by Wings on 11/21/2000 at 8:21:49 PM
Just be glad it is only a Jersey and not a long time hip injury that would keep you down for months.
As a runner I was always falling and I could go in those forward rolls and roll right back into the running cadence (after two forward rolls) and never miss a beat.
I have been fortunate not to have gone down big time in the last 10 years on a bike, but I have had close calls.
I hope you are back in the saddle soon--but be careful!

My biggest problem here is that I finally got the ear protectors and now it is sunshine and 75 degrees!
I can' win!!!!!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I suppose that it was bound to happen posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 5:50:04 AM
I'm having good luck with Avocet Cross in 700c x 32. A long-time local commuter swears by them. A friend emaild me yesterday to tell me that Nashbar has studded tires on sale for $25@, available in both 700c and 26" mtb sizes. A local mechanic who lived in Minnesota told me how he used to drive screws through knobbies for ice-lake races.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Judo is the answer, my friends posted by Mike Stone on 11/27/2000 at 9:25:21 PM
I ride every day including the icy winters of Wisconsin. Yup. Ice + bike + motion = crash often. I found that learning Judo falling techniques can help avoid injury.

It is hard to put to practice, though. At first, I would say to myself as the asphalt came plowing up into me, "fall judo style, fall judo style, fall judo style" but then, my hands would go straight out in front of me in a completely non-judo way and I would get the bash-around.

This winter, though, I look forward to the challenge - not to falling, but to the challenge of falling correctly when it does happen.


AGE / VALUE:   The Data Book posted by: Keith on 11/20/2000 at 12:28:02 PM
A number of the recent "what derailleur came on ------- ?" may be answered by this book. The book is a compilation of drawings by Daniel Rebour, who did some of the most beautiful and detailed line drawings of vintage lightweight bicycles ever (several appear in the Dancing Chain book). It covers post-WWII to 1958. A reprinted (not Xerox) version is available from the Bicycle Classics for $40. www.bicycleclassics.com I want one now. Anyone out there have this book and care to comment?

MISC:   More derrailuer unusual bike info posted by: Ray on 11/20/2000 at 11:53:59 AM
Going through these same vintage 1960 magazine I came across another Schwinn ad. It featured upright handlebar Schwinn Traveler with fenders. It came equipped with an eight speed that was a real wild set up. It used a Strumer Archer 4 speed internal rear with two cogs and a rear derrailuer to shift between the two. Never seen one of these on a Schwinn but have seen them on Raleighs. I also have take photos of these neat ads and will soon post them on my web site for all to enjoy. I will keep you posted.

   RE:MISC:   More derrailuer unusual bike info posted by Eric Amlie on 11/20/2000 at 12:16:50 PM
Wow! Yes please let us know when you post the ads. I would really like to see the one on that 8 speed Traveler and perhaps get a copy of it if that's possible.

   RE:MISC:   More derrailuer unusual bike info posted by Wings on 11/20/2000 at 10:16:59 PM
That sounds great!

   RE:MISC:   More derrailuer unusual bike info posted by Keith on 11/21/2000 at 11:51:40 AM
Ray and others: The Dancing Chain (pages 134 and 135) reproduces ads from the 1930s by American companies that imported 2,3, and 4- speed derailleurs, including Cyclo, made to be used as add-ons to coaster brake bikes. Wouldn't that be a find? A pre-war ballooner with a correct vintage derailleur!

   RE:RE:MISC:   More derrailuer unusual bike info posted by ChristopherRobin on 11/22/2000 at 10:18:40 AM
Why do you think I am digging in basements of ancient ruined bike shops in the bad side of town?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by: Peter on 11/20/2000 at 10:08:18 AM
Could someone fortunate enough to have a copy of The Dancing Chain please help. I am restoring a 1951 Hetchins which I believe may not have been originally fitted with a derrailuer, although it has the lugs for the cable. I am trying to equip the bike with British parts where possible, but don't know what model of British derrailuer would have been available then. I recall my 1955 Carlton was fitted with a French Simplex, which, although I had a four speed block, only seemed to work with either the upper 3 or lower 3 sprockets.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Keith on 11/20/2000 at 10:51:53 AM
I'll have to check the book, and Jogn wil probably know, but as I recall Cyclo-Benelux was a British division of the French Cyclo, and may be "correct," although since Hetchins was totally custom I'm not sure that there is any one right answer -- perhaps any number of Simplex, Huret, or Cyclo derailleurs may be acceptable. BTW, anyone who has a 1951 Hetchins, and was riding a Carlton back in the mid-50s, before I was born, so totally outclasses me that I'm embarassed to even try to answer your question.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Peter on 11/20/2000 at 1:52:01 PM
Keep looking Keith. I may be in England, and in my 60s, but I am quite happy to learn from anyone who has the knowledge. We don't have a forum such as this, so I hope you don't mind if I link in to yours sometimes.

   derailleur changers posted by John E on 11/20/2000 at 6:32:33 PM
First off, Peter -- welcome to "our" forum. England and Scotland are my principal ancestral homelands and I have owned several British bicycles, though, alas, none currently. Yes, Cyclo Benelux derailleurs are British. The coilspring rears share the Simplex Tour de France's "N-1" coverage (3 out of 4 cogs in my case, as in yours, 4 out of 5 apparently on the Schwinn Conti on eBay). I agree with Keith that anything of the same vintage may be "authentic," on these highly custom bikes.

The showiest-looking road bike I ever saw was an early 1970s translucent red over chrome curly-stayed Hetchins. The workmanship was immaculate and intricate.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Keith on 11/21/2000 at 7:54:57 AM
Peter, welcome, and please stay and add your insights on the history of lightweights. As I'm sure you know, very few Americans were doing any long-distance road cycling between the 1910s or so and the 1970s, whereas across the pond cycling flourished throughout this period. One of our mentors, Sheldon Brown, talks of the heyday of British "Club" cycling in the 50s, when we were in the Dark Ages of cycling. I read a wonderful stry once about how young men in England rode their club bikes out to some place in the country on Saturdays, and then stripped off the mudguards, racks, lights and the like to do timetrials on Sunday. Please tell us what it was like!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Peter on 11/21/2000 at 1:55:07 PM
Thanks for the info. Don't really fancy a Cyclo Benelux if it is anything like my Simplex. Perhaps, as with the saddle I am fitting I will have one for show and one for go (Brooks Swallow B15 for show, Professional for go). If you are interesred in learning about early club cycling Keith, email me your snail mail address and I will send you a photocopy of a short history of the Grimsby Road Club 1928 to 1952. You could then pass or copy it on to anyone who might be interested. The G R C was a typical town club of the era, one of I think six serving a population of about 120,000. Each town would have several clubs, and there was friendly rivalry between them. Each weekend there would be at least one time trial event, or club social runs for those who didn't want to race. The time trials would begin in March with 10 mile events, and continue through the year with 25, 50, 100 mile, and 12 hour races, usually ending the season in September with hill climbs. I have race information and result forms from 1948 to 1955 which make interesting reading. With riders starting at 1 minute intervals it was usual to get the last man away by 8-00am, so one race with a large field had the first man off at 4-30am. Twelve hour events were well organised events with several feeding stations, including a mid day one where tables were set up outside a favourite cafe for the riders to take a 20 minute break. It was my brother, who in 1952, decided he didn't need to stop, waved as he went by, won the race in record time, and changed the fashion. Riders would cycle over from clubs up to 50 or 60 miles away, often with their tubular sprint wheels carried on special brackets either side of their normal front road wheel, complete the race and then ride home again. Social runs were often prearranged to meet up with other clubs at favourite venues where there was sometimes a field or area where they could play games, picnic and exchange news - great gatherings of enthusiasts. In the summer months there would also be grass track racing at village fairs and sports grounds.
My own interest in cycling started when 2 of my 3 older brothers started racing when I was about 10. I followed their careers with interest and in 1955 bought my Carlton - a 25" one off frame which I still have. Unlike the others in the family I never raced, preferring to join the CTC and tour. When I was 17 I went to college about 40 miles away and cycled home and back each weekend, often going out for a social ride with friends while I was at home. I probably didn't ride any more from 1970 onwards, but my interest has recently been rekindled with a vengeance with the acquisition about 2 months ago of a delapidated Hetchins. Restoring "the bike" has become a labour of love, not only in researching it and finding the "correct" parts, but also in finding out more about the previous owner who, sadly died 2 weeks after I "rescued" it from someone he had given it to, and who was using it for carrying produce from his vegetable allotment. I have recently discovered that Arthur, who bought the bike new in 1951 for about $30 kept a diary of his cycling activities from 1935 onwards, and have been told by his executor that I can have them along with some photographs and a trophy that he won in 1937. It seems that in due course I shall be able to write a "One man and his Bike" history - if only there were more hours in the day!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 6:41:28 AM
Peter, I can't begin to tell you how wonderful it is to read your account, and I can't wait to here more. We're all facinated by the nuts and bolts, but what real people actually did on these machines is far more compelling. I look forward to your seeing your club materials. It makes me want to find and preserve whatever may be left from the club I was in years ago -- Franklin Bicycle Club Incorporated ("FBCI"), reportedly started in the 1920s and lasted until the 1990s. The early 1970s club culture I experienced, with local racing clubs holdng events under the old Amateur Bicycle League of America rules, probably more closely resembled what you describe than the current USCF-CAT/UCI system. By the way, for your Hetchins, I suppose if you want something that will work better than the Cyclo or Simplex, you could try to find an original Campagnolo Gran Sport (1951-1962). I once read a letter by a British cyclist published in a Rivendell Reader which said the once the Gran Sport came out (1951), he and other British enthusiasts he knew scrambled to get them.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Early 1950s derrailuer changers posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 6:43:33 AM
HEAR more, that is.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Ganna bicycle posted by: Pete on 11/17/2000 at 8:14:49 PM
I posted a question recently asking had anyone heard of my Ganna bicycle, and I got no answer whatsoever.
I was surprised it was so rare. The label is in Italian and says, " Ganna motorcycles, bicycles." No doubt
many of us have heard of the Ganna motorcycle, but I find no evidence of it anywhere. Does anyone have a hint where to start looking
for information on this bicycle?

   cycle Utah classic corner posted by John E on 11/19/2000 at 3:51:24 PM
I guess the deafening response to your inquiry should tell you just how rare your machine is. You may want to check with Classic Corner, Sheldon Brown, Cycle Art, or even Campy Only, to see if anyone has any information for you. Classic Corner's editor was able to tell me all about my Bianchi Columbus TreTubi frame.

If it's old and mid-to-high-grade Italian, I like it, sight unseen.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by: Ray on 11/17/2000 at 8:21:24 AM
Since there seems to be a lot of interest in the early Schwinn Continentals and Varsities with the Suicide shifter and 8 or 10 speed with older style derrailuers here is some other info I came across. I just purchased some vintage 1960s "American Cyclist" magazines. Inside they have ads for these Schwinn lightweights but I also noticed other manufacturers with similar models. For 1960, listed as adult racing bicycles I saw ads with photos of a Raleigh with suicide shift, drop handlebars, pump, bottle and Benelux older derrailuer 10 speed. I also saw a similar Rudge 8 speed with the same kind of set up. There was even a great looking Atala with a track type handlebar stem, no brake handles that I could see but it had the same drivetrain set up as these other early "Adult Racing Bicycles" Have any of you seen one of these in person or perhaps own one. Sure would like to find some of these other US import early multi speed derrailuer bikes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by Art on 11/17/2000 at 4:35:38 PM
I have a Rudge Clubman which has a Simplex suicide front derrailuer, Simplex rear tour de France derrailuer, and a Simplex crank. It has GB bars, stem, and GB'66 brakes. It is a nice lugged frame. The hubs are Normandy and it is a 10 speed. I don't know what was original, but I'm sure the Simplex stuff is because it is weathered the same as the frame. I have some extra small parts for the rear derrailuer. I'm looking for a front one. I tried to date this bike and have posted it as a question several times, but no one ever responded to it. I assumed it was a late fifties or early 60's bike. I understand there is a front derraileur with a metal ball on the end, and one with a plastic ball on it. I have some parts for Clubman, but no one I know has ever heard of a Rudge Clubman....It has eyelets for fenders/racks high up on the stays and the fork.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:???More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by Warren on 11/17/2000 at 7:43:04 PM
What is early for derailleur bikes anyway? I've got an early 50's Hercules with derailleur on a 3 cog hub and I think I've seen a late 30's club bike with a similar arrangement...but who did it first? Campy, Cyclo-Benelux or other?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by ChristopherRobin on 11/18/2000 at 1:13:28 PM
Read these old cycle magazines back, forth, and sideways and you will learn a lot of information.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:???More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by ChristopherRobin on 11/18/2000 at 1:16:51 PM
Your bike(derailer) is pictured in "The Dancing Chain" and you must get this book if you have not yet. I have been hunting these and have yet to run across the old british derailur equiped stuff yet. You have, and thats awesome. How do you like this bike. I think theyre great.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by Keith on 11/20/2000 at 7:17:48 AM
The Dancing Chain is a must read for those of you headed in this direction. The 50s and 60s were by no means early for derailleurs. The 1950s and early 60s were, however, a period during which very few derailleur-equiped bikes were imported or sold in the United States. My impression, from what I've read and having ridden with people who got their start before the "bike boom" is that the stuff could be had by mail order. A local rider, Dick Sebodee, who's ridden Paris-Brest-Paris a couple of times, started out on a Raleigh Clubman in the 50s (he still has it). His came with a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub, and he added a Cyclo Benelux kit to it, with a 3-speed freewheel on a threaded driver. Chuck Siple, who founded the TOSRV ride with his son in 1962, had a Paramount in the 40s that was equiped with a derailleur. He latter got a Legnano, which he rode on the 1962 ride. (I've read that Legnano was one of the few marks imported in the pre-bike boom days.) 60sChuck Harris, who I've had the pleasure to meet, and who makes the best cycling eyeglass/helmet mirrors in the world, actually made and sold his own ultra-wide range derailleurs in the 1950s! (There's a Rivendell Reader article about Harris's derailleurs, and one is pictured in the Dancing Chain.)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   More facts on early production derrailuer bikes posted by Keith on 11/20/2000 at 7:30:28 AM
P.S. The article about Chuck Harris's derailleurs, written by Sheldon Brown, appears in Rivendell Reader 5. Chuck's company, "Ultralight Touring Equipment" sells the mirrors Chuck still makes himself -- they really are the best. HIS DERAILLEUR HANLDED A 13-42 ON THE BACK, AND A 26-48-60 ON THE FRONT. WOW!!!!!!

   TOSRV posted by Eric Amlie on 11/20/2000 at 7:34:32 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but one has to learn somehow. I have seen TOSRV referred to several times but have no idea what it is. Can you fill me in? Thanks!

   RE:TOSRV posted by Keith on 11/20/2000 at 9:50:06 AM
Sorry Eric and others. TOSRV is the Tour of the Scioto River Valley, a back to back century weekend that started in 1962 by a father, Chuck Siple, and his son, Greg Siple. IT goes from Columbus, Ohio to Portsmouth, Ohio, and back again. By the standards of the 60s and early 70s, this was a major U.S. touring event, was one of the earliest, and one of the best organized. It is truly a relic. By today's standards, it's a smallish, not terribly exciting or challenging ride. Now that bike boomers are older and have more money, more of them can afford fabulous week or longer supported tours, run by private companies (e.g. Vermont Cycling) or clubs (e.g. Ragbrai). For physical accomplishment, it's Race Across America and Boston-Montreal-Boston domestic brevettes, and any one of a dozen or so annual rides from hell, or even the real grandmother of them all, Paris-Brest-Paris. A century is no longer a big deal. So, TOSRV, once near the top, is now small potatos. I live in Columbus, Ohio, and it was one of the first big (by early 70s standards) rides I did, and I'm a good friend of the guy who's run it for more than 30 years, Chaelie Pace, so it looms much larger for me than it would for almost anyone else. A book was actually published about it in 1986 -- The Mighty TOSRV -- which probably represents its zenith. The co-founder, Greg Siple, went on to organize Bikesentenial and Hemistour. One of the early riders, Dan Burden, founded Adventure Cycling in Montana. It's a yearly pilgrimage for me.

MISC:   Bar Tape posted by: Art on 11/16/2000 at 7:21:26 AM
The strand below about pedals, shoes and tape got me thinking about the variations I've seen in bar tape, both in what is used as tape and the how bars are wrapped. I've torn some bikes apart that have had as many as 5 layers of different colored cotton tape on them. I've seen some bikes (and bought some tape myself) that uses an older waffled version of colored electrical tape. I've read articles about string wrapped bars, but I've never seen one. I found a pair of old tracks bikes once, that the rider had done something I'd never seen before. The bike was taped in the traditional style with cotton tape. On each drop, the rider wound three extra bands of tape maybe a 1/4 in thick. I don't know if he placed his fingers on each band, but I think that's what he did. It seemed like an interesting custom tape idea.

   RE:MISC:   Bar Tape posted by Keith on 11/16/2000 at 10:48:54 AM
I've seen old Coppi/Bartoli photos which show bands of cloth tape around the brake levers -- sounds a little like the track bikes. I also remember wrapping a few layers on the top tube of my track bike to cushion where the handlebars would whack the frame. I actually do like the way cloth tape feels, but find at age 42 that I need a little vibration damping, otherwise my hands ache during and after a ride. I have one bike with cotton over cork -- I may try that on others. I recall other riders putting layers of tape on in the early 70s -- I did it too. If tape was really shot, new tape just went on over it. I'm aware of the painfully retro Rivendell shellac-over-cotton tape, finished with hemp twine method. I've only seen one example and it looked sort of cool, but it's way over the top for me, as much as I think Rivendell has some good ideas. I suppose if I had all the time in the world I might try it once.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Bar Tape posted by Karl on 11/17/2000 at 12:39:03 PM
I haven't tried shellacking the tape, but one of my bikes has black Tressostar with shellacked twine in place of finishing tape. It's actually fairly quick and easy; the shellac dries in less than an hour, and couple coats is enough. It looks really elegant. I wrapped the twine just as one would whip the end of a rope (recalled from scouting days).

That bike has moustache bars, with an inner tube under the tape. Next wrap job I do will be similar but I think I'll try foamy tape under the cloth, and see how it works.

MISC:   "The Third Hand/ Loose Screws" posted by: Wings on 11/16/2000 at 12:21:27 AM
The Third Hand/Losse Screws -- Is going to close its doors on March 29, 2001. Between now and then everything is 10% off. The closing was mentioned in an earlier post.

   RE:MISC:    posted by ChristopherRobin on 11/17/2000 at 6:53:52 AM
No, No, No! Somebody tell me this is a bad dream. Make them stop! Not these folks, No, No, No,

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   what year is it posted by: mike on 11/15/2000 at 3:34:19 PM
i have a schwinn speedster kids bike headlight,bell,rear view mirror serial#ek525188 iwant to know what year and how much it's worth please reply

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   what year is it posted by Wings on 11/16/2000 at 12:12:03 AM
e= May
k = 1974
My records indicate the 20 inch wheel Speedster was first made in 1964.
I have never seen a 20 inch wheel Speedster, so I think that is quite a find. As to value ... I do not know. You can check the adult Speedster on Ebay and they have been sold for around $100 but the price is very inconsistent and perhaps Speedsters are just now being recognized as a desired bike to collect. I have purchased an adult Speedster for $9 before so the value in $ is very spotty. But, I think you have found a unique bike since it is a kids bike! Enjoy it and care for it!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by: Brian L. on 11/15/2000 at 8:33:45 AM
Not to whip the clipless pedal discussion to death, and just to state that I'm a big proponent of them at the outset, but they do have one downfall: cold transferance. The last couple of mornings its been hovering at freezing as I start my hour+1/2 ride in and my toes ache in the shower at work by the time I get in. The clips transfer the cold right through the toes of my shoes. I know that that John Stamsted and all of the Iditasport gurus ride traditional pedals to avoid this problem.

To respond to Keith's comment from an earlier thread: even though the pedal contact point is the balls of the feet, the line of force is through the leg and ankle, which is a pivot, inducing rotation at the ankle. In addition, the foot is flexible, so the stiffer the shoe, the greater the force transferance to the pedal. Thats why all of the classic racing shoes had stiff wooden soles (that, and you could nail a cleat into the wood).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Keith on 11/15/2000 at 11:14:48 AM
Brian, I respectfully disagree. First, I suppose the clipless/stiff shoes issues are seperate. I believe many if not most track rides, who can torque the cranks off a bike with their trachcan sized thighs, still use clips and straps (usually double straps). But I also don't think all classic shoes had wood soles, though I've read that too. I had a couple of sets of Detto Pietro shoes in the early 70s, and they had leather soles, and they weren't all that stiff. If you look through old Tour de France pictures, you'll occasionally catch a cyclist kneeling, and see a shoe sole bent 90 degrees -- that ain't wood. I simply don't buy the power transfer idea. I remember seeing a funny drawing in a Sloane's Complete Bicycling that was trying to illustate it -- it has the heel of the soft soled shoe all slumped down and the foot in an exagerated arch shape. That simply doesn't happen. In fact, I wonder whether a stiff sole could reduce efficiency -- perhaps allowing the foot bones and muscles to flex slightly may allow you to "ankle with more power by using otherwise isolated muscles in your foot and calf that to cannot be used with a stiff sole. There are strong muscles in your feet -- if your shoes allow it wiggle them downward as you read this and see what I mean. A few years back a physical threrapist friend of mine told me that the theory behind the construction of most athletic shoes has no scientific basis in what the foot actually does when you run (he was refering to stiff heel cups). Maybe the same is true here, I honestly don't know. Anyway, I use both myself, though I find myself using clipless less and less. Today I rode one hour into work with toe clips and straps, wearing huge rubber-soled tennis shoes with bulky wool hunting socks. It was 31 degrees, and my feet were plenty warm, though maybe I lost 30 second because of the flex. Sometimes it's refreshing to just be able to jump on a bike and ride without having to put on special shoes and clothes, and to be able to stop and walk into a store without feeling like a duck. But before I'm branded a retro-grouch, let me say this: I'd never go back to tubulars. And I like cork tape better than cotton.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Brian L. on 11/15/2000 at 2:59:53 PM

The tape comment opens up a whole new thread of endless possibilities. I've actually set up all my bikes with Benotto/clone plastic tape 'cause I love the colors and you just can't soil it with greasy monkey paws. Not much cushion, though.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by desmo on 11/16/2000 at 12:51:53 AM
Cinelli Cork Ribon is good. I also like Tressostar cotton. I sometimes prefer to ride gloveless if it's warm and I don't like the feel of Benotto-type tape then.

   clipless pedals and shoe design posted by John E on 11/16/2000 at 6:36:17 AM
Interesting thread ... I do a fair amount of cycling, walking, and running.

For running, I buy ASICS shoes (as does my orthopedist), because they control my over-pronation problem without breaking down in the midsole -- a stiff heel cup has its place for some of us.

For cycling, I am strictly a clips-and-straps retro-grouch, because I ride for transportation and recreation and have no pretenses about racing. I definitely want to be able to ride my commuting and mountain bikes with regular shoes, and I have avoided putting clipless on the Bianchi because I do not trust myself to swap my release reactions from bike to bike.

I suppose a clipless system could accelerate the conduction of heat away from the foot, but this could be alleviated through good thermal engineering of the sole of the shoe. I wonder whether anyone has ever quantified the heat loss rate for various shoe and pedal systems.

As for handlebar tape, I like to have some padding, even though I almost always wear full-fingered, somewhat padded gloves when cycling.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Bill Putnam on 11/16/2000 at 7:08:52 AM
In my experience, clipless SPD pedals can be warmer than
toe clips and straps. For winter riding, I have some
Answer flatfoot SPD shoes that I bought about 2 sizes too
big. This allows me to put a thick pair of wool socks on
and not have the shoe tight around my foot. When it gets
below 0F, I put neoprene booties over the shoes. When
I used to use toe clips and straps, the pressure from the
toe clips and straps on the top of my foot hindered circulation.
Of course, if you just use standard pedals without toe clips
and straps your feet would be warmer than riding with toe
clips and straps too, but I like the efficiency of the SPD's.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Art on 11/16/2000 at 7:19:44 AM
Like John, I use Asics footwear for athletic stuff. I'm also a clips and straps retrogrouch. I prefer tressostar or cateye cotton tape, although I have used cork ribbon with success before. I wear a simple (performance or shimano non spd shoe alomost exclusively, without socks, unless it's really cold, then thin cotton dress socks usually keep me warm enough for winter AZ mornings.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Keith on 11/16/2000 at 11:08:51 AM
I suppose you could cut a sole-shaped piece of neoprene or other closed-cell foam and put it in your cycling shoe to stop ther heat transfer. Speaking of old-style slotted cleats, I miss them. I have a pair of Performance shoes with modren, nylon slotted cleats. YUK! Even though the nylon cleats are deep, they are so slippery that they come right out unless th straps are tight enough to cut off circulation. I still have one pair of old shoes with nailed-in metal TA track cleats -- shallower slots, but they stay put better. Also much easier to walk in. One last thought -- clippless pedels, along with SDI and ERGO shifting, aero wheels, and titanium and carbon may well be more efficient. If you're going to ride 20+mph with a competitive crowd, you better have that stuff. But once you've eased down from 20+ to about 15 mph or so, I don't think it matters as much. The past 5 years I've been gradually sliding the scale away from speed and efficiency and toward comfort (wider gears, wider tires, longer wheelbases, taller stems) and so far comfort is winning, at least for me.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Michael on 11/19/2000 at 10:32:54 AM
For cold wet weather I like full leather trail shoes with clips and lose straps. The soles are plenty stiff enough, there is no metal plate and they are waterproof without having to wear neoprene booties just for a trip to the shops. I worry about walking on wet steps with a metal cleat, and your simply not welcome on wooden floors.
I think Keith is right that all those efficiency boosters really do little if you ride at crusing speed. Clips have an advantage over no-clips, in efficiency and esp in safety, but clipless has little advantage over clips unless you turn on the power. I leave then to the athletes.
I very rarly see clipless pedals used by commuters.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Northern Winter require specialized clips on 11/27/2000 at 9:48:24 PM
I sympathize with Brian's cold feet problems due to the clipless pedals.

Here in the Great North, it often gets below freezing making the winter bike commutes dangerously cold. After darn near loosing my toe-nails again to frost-bite on a commute two years ago, I had to switch to wearing swampers (pac boots like Sorelfs) during my winter commutes.

This posed a problem because these boots are simply too big to fit into any strap type pedal or toe clip arrangement and clipless pedals are out of the question.

To solve this, I found that I could fashion a reasonable toe clip for my swampers with a couple of old otter traps that the springs had the springs worn out. They are a snap getting into, but I can never get my feet out of them fast enough to keep from falling over at the stop lights.

The otter-trap toe clip on the left side still has a little too much muscle left in the spring and once I pulled my foot right out of the boot an put my foot right into a big slush puddle. Now, don't you think that was a shock! Whooooweeee.

I solved that problem by wrapping my feet in the plastic newspaper covers that my wife uses for her newspaper route. They are just the right shape and size like a tube-sock. Now, if my boot stays in the toe clip, then my foot doesn't get wet when I step in the puddles. Pretty smart thinking on my part. The problem is than the rubber band I use to keep them on around my legs makes my feet go a little numb which is just about the same feeling as them being cold.

So, if anybody has any ideas for keeping these plastic bags on my legs rather than the rubber bands, please let me know.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   clipless pedals posted by Keith on 11/28/2000 at 7:14:02 AM
You can link two straps together and you'll have room for boots. Also, I used to cover the clips with plastic bags and duct tape in the winter to form a windproof shell. Lastly, a local friend now swears by BMX pedals used WITHOUT any clips or straps.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Northern Winter require specialized clips posted by Mike Stone on 11/28/2000 at 2:43:37 PM
Fellows, so you know, the posting "Northern Winter require specialized clips" was posted by me as a bit of humor. We don't actually have a guy participating on the OldRoads forum who uses otter traps for toe clips.

Anybody knows that muskrat traps are far lighter and easier to use.


   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Northern Winter require specialized clips posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 6:48:39 AM
Oh yeah? Well I know a guy who has bolted toaster ovens to his pedals and runs them with car batteries attached to a trailer!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Thanks, Art posted by: Brian L. on 11/14/2000 at 6:48:42 PM
Art, tried to send you the following last week, but received a permanent error message, Art,

Wifey dropped shipment off @ UPS today so you should see it soon.

My folks have lived in Apache Junction for the past 4 years after 36 years in Anchorage. They look straight out at Superstition. I love the desert, but can't stand Phoenix. I remember it as a kid visiting Grandma and Grandpa how charming it was with all of the orange trees downtown (you can imagine the fascination for a kid from the near-arctic). These days ... I hear you about the looney drivers and lack of safe riding conditions. Seattle, though urban, is pretty good riding, particularly if you don't mind rising early, and there are a lot of cyclists here.

If you happen into Apache Jct much, my folks are Lee and Jean Slick on 446 N. Valley drive. Drop in just to surprise them and tell them how we met over the net and swapped bikes. Dad will get a kick out of that.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Thanks, Art posted by Art on 11/15/2000 at 6:15:34 AM
Thanks, Brian. Maybe I mis-typed my e-mail address. I'll have to check it out. Art

AGE / VALUE:   Broke it! posted by: heavy on 11/14/2000 at 4:56:52 PM
The straw that broke the db's back.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Broke it! posted by Brian L. on 11/14/2000 at 6:50:29 PM

AGE / VALUE:   Bicycle swap meet December 3, 2000. Swansea, Massachusetts posted by: joe on 11/14/2000 at 8:38:45 AM
Bicycle swap meet December 3, 2000. Swansea, Massachusetts. Free to all vendors and the public. Please email me if interested.

Thank you,