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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

WANTED:   Dura Ace/Shimano High flange hubs posted by: Eric on 12/11/2000 at 7:05:23 PM
I am looking for a set of high flange Shimano hubs. They don't have to be Dura Ace, just looking for Shimano. Period would be around the late 70s to early 80s. Let me know what you have and pics are appreciated. Thank you.

   cracks; overlock axle width posted by John E on 12/13/2000 at 11:07:41 AM
Hi Eric,
If you do find a set, check the perimeters of the flanges carefully for cracks -- I just scrapped a Shimano HF front hub of about the vintage you seek. (The matching rear is still OK.) Also, what rear axle OLD do you want, 126mm?

   RE:cracks; overlock axle width posted by Eric on 12/14/2000 at 6:35:25 PM
Not worried about spacing. I am taking the QR axle out and replacing it with a solid. I am using the hubs for an old BMX resto. Thanks for the tips.

   RE:RE:cracks; overlock axle width posted by Oscar on 12/15/2000 at 7:57:17 AM
From my box of hub parts: One front hi-flange hub painted white. Some lo-fi brand (ilco?). Can't use it, can't toss it. Absolutely free to any good home.

WANTED:   Dura Ace/Shimano High flange hubs posted by: Eric on 12/11/2000 at 7:05:23 PM
I am looking for a set of high flange Shimano hubs. They don't have to be Duar Ace, just looking for Shimano. Period would be around the late 70s to early 80s. Let me know what you have and pics are appreciated. Thank you.

AGE / VALUE:   Any Info on a Veloce Touring Frame? posted by: Chris Waagen on 12/11/2000 at 6:12:56 AM
I've been reading these discussions for a few months and enjoying them a lot. Recently I acquired an excellent quality frame that had been resprayed and rebuilt with early Dura-Ace compunents circa 1980. I'm wondering about the frame itself, which appears to be older and perhaps Italian, with lots of nice features including very long lugs with triangular cutouts, cutouts in the bottom bracket shell, investment cast fork crown with reinforcing tabs on the inside of the blades, and Campagnolo dropouts. The seatpost is secured by a recessed allen-head bolt threaded directly into the lug, not the usual binder bolt. The brazing is very clean. The only mark on the frame is "Veloce" at the top of the seatstays where they wrap into the lug. No serial number that I can see. The fork has a comfortable rake and has double eyelets, plus there are rack eyelets on the seatstays, so it's clearly intended for touring. It gives a comfortable stable ride, and definitely seems worth repainting and rebuilding. I've poked around on the Web, but haven't found anything on Veloce bikes. Does anyone have any information on this frame? Thanks.

   Bianchi, perhaps? posted by John E on 12/11/2000 at 4:43:12 PM
Given its location, "Veloce" is almost definitely a model designator, rather than a brand name, just as my Peugeot is a "competition," as was my late Nishiki.

Bianchi currently makes a "Veloce" model, and has used the name frequently in the past, as well. If your bike has Italian BB threading (36mm x 24TPI), this is a possibility. However, it may be from a different Italian manufacturer, as I do not recall seeing a Bianchi with triagular cutouts in the lugs. My 1982 Bianchi's serial number wraps around the top of the seat clamp, and the lugwork is very plain, but very clean.

As usual, try Sheldon Brown, particularly since Harris Cyclery is a Bianchi dealer.

AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by: Art on 12/11/2000 at 6:41:05 AM
What does anyone know about a 1980 Paramount Tandem? Value? Components? Wheels?

   sounds rare and valuable to me posted by John E on 12/11/2000 at 4:46:33 PM
It sounds rare and valuable to me, Art. You may get an awestruck reaction from the Schwinnophiles at schwinn.com / heritage / collector's forum. I'll bet someone at waterfordbikes.com knows something about it, as well.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Keith on 12/12/2000 at 7:28:04 AM
Art, this is a real toughie, because Chicago stopped making Paramounts in 1979, and Waterford didn't pick up until late 1980, I believe, and started by making expensive team bikes with OS tubing. I don't know whether or when Waterford started making tandems. It could be that the tanden was made earlier, but is dated 1980. Eric who frequents this site seems to have catalogs -- and I agree go to the Schwinn site. But bottom line, I'm pretty sure there was no "Cage" operating outside the Chicago factory as of 1980, and that's where the familiar fillet-brazed, Super Sport style tandems were made.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Keith on 12/12/2000 at 12:30:39 PM
As a not very in-depth research update, the Pridmore & Hurd coffee table Schwinn book pictures a 1977 paramount tandem at page 125. Looks to me like Campy cranks, Campy high flange hubs, and Campy Rally rear derailleur. But be aware, Schwinn also made a cheaper electroforged 10-speed tandem during this period (also pictured in Pridmore & Hurd, at page 135). I actually owned one of the latter "Varsinental" tandems, which I bought to ride with a girlfriend back in the early 80s. Not a Paramount, not by a long shot.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Art on 12/12/2000 at 7:21:42 PM
Thanks John and Keith. Keith, you inspired me to do some searching on my own and I found some info on the Waterford site. Paramount tandems were made from 1969-1979. Some were made before that but they were custom racers. Mine is a 1978. At least that's what I think from the date list on Waterford. It doesn't have the curved seat tube like the 77 pictured in the Schwinn book. It is a straighter version with two long stays, one on each side of the frame, that run from the center of the head tube all the way back to the dropouts. I believe mine is not the $1000-1200 version. It has odd shimano cantilever brakes and TA cranks. It is black with white Parmount decals and the white Schwinn made in Chicago seat tube decal. The wheels are mismatched (any idea what would be sort of correct?) and bars were an add on with suntour bar cons. I really wasn't looking for any more bikes...especially at Christmas, but a buddy of mine who has been collecting great bikes for a lot longer than I was selling a bunch of stuff off. I've been riding a Schwinn Deluxe twinn with my son who's nine, but honestly the weight and geometry were beating me up. When I found this, I figured we had a pretty good and fun bike that we could travel some distances on. I paid $250 for it...my buddy bought it years ago for $120! He's throwing in a correct seat for my Tourist. I don't know if I paid too much, but it's really pretty and clean. I have some questions about building it up which I'll post tomorrow. It's cold and raining here and my little guy wants me to take him outside to see the storm before he goes to bed.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Tom Adams on 12/13/2000 at 4:15:55 AM
Aagh! $120 and $250? For a real Paramount Tandem? If the frame is straight and fits you (heck, even if it doesn't fit) that is one great buy. Modern tandem frames of that quality are usually well over $1,000 dollars, and can run over $2500. Does this friend of your's have any other bikes for sale?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Eric Amlie on 12/13/2000 at 6:40:02 AM
Well now, '78 is a little easier. I didn't respond at first because the '80 isn't in my catalog. The '78 is however. I don't really want to take the time to key in all the info so if there is specific info that you want, ping me off list and I will do what I can to help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Eric Amlie on 12/13/2000 at 9:57:45 AM
Oops! Just noticed you wanted wheels and components. OK here we go.

Wheels: Aluminum alloy rims with Campagnolo large flange quick release hubs and .092, .080 butted spokes. 27" X 1 1/4" HP Schwinn LeTour tires.

Handlebar: Aluminum alloy Cinelli front and All-Rounder rear.

Stem: Cinelli front; Schwinn handlebar rear.

Crankset: Campagnolo Record. 170mm crankarms.

Derailleur: Campagnolo Record front (Curved seatmast models use Huret Success front.) Huret Dou-Par rear.

Gears: 36-46-54 front; 14-16-19-25-31 freewheel.

Brakes: Mafac Cyclometeur front; cantilever rear. (T29 model uses Weinmann Vanqueur rear.)

Pedals: Campagnolo Superlegerri.

Saddle: Cinelli Unica-Nitor. Brooks optional. Campagnolo seatpost.

Weight: Approximately 43 lbs.

   improving the gearing posted by John E on 12/13/2000 at 11:15:23 AM
That 8-tooth jump between the outer chainrings makes a near-ideal 1.5-step setup with 2-tooth rear cog development. If that were my bike, I would replace the freewheel with an Ultra6 14-16-18-20-23-26 (for 120mm OLD) or a 13-26 or 13-28 7-speed (126mm).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Give Me the Sccop posted by Art on 12/13/2000 at 12:43:18 PM
Thanks, Eric. Either mine had all the original, high end parts removed, or mine is a version that makes use of cheaper components--the TA cranks and shimano brakes. The rear derailleur is a Le Tour and the front just Schwinn Approved. Everything else is an obvious add on. My plans are not to restore this...can you imagine how much I'd have to spend for everything? I want to make it a safe and comfortable rider for my son and me. I want to sit more upright as opposed to drop bars and I have a number of different handle bar options with the possibility of older style thumb shifters...I'm just going to play with it a bit and see what have. Any suggestions or comments, as always, would be appreciated. As to the other bikes my friend has, what he hasn't sold locally, he plans to take to the spring Tucson swap meet, which has become a pretty good show for people in this area. If someone is looking for a particular bike or part, I can always see what he has available.

AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN LETOUR LUXE posted by: Kevin K on 12/10/2000 at 2:40:59 PM
Hi. I need some facts on my Letour Luxe. It's a very nice 15 speed touring bike. It's also made of Columbus tubing with forged front and rear dropouts, set up for both fenders and racks. I would like to know where the bike was built, if they are maybe a little rare ( not for $$$$$$$$$$$ but for being not made in huge numbers ) And what years the Luxe model was built. Last, what colors were these made in. Thank you< kevin

   nice bike posted by John E on 12/10/2000 at 3:15:07 PM
Your bike was one of Schwinn's better offerings. It was made (by Panasonic, I think) in Japan in the late 1970s. Please post an inquiry on the schwinn.com website -- some of the guys there know alot more about specific Schwinn models than I do.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN LETOUR LUXE posted by Keith on 12/11/2000 at 6:36:15 AM
I recently gave away a Le Tour Luxe frame. It had braze ons for cantilevers, double eyelets on the fork ends/dropouts, etc., really set up for touring. Paint was dark brown. It came with a set of the indexed Suntour downtube shifts, which were mounted on with a single allen bolt on a single brazeon on the top of the downtube. I think this puts it in the mid-80s. It had unusual dropouts -- the slot on the drive side was partial -- as if partially filled in, and it has no adjusting screws. Workmanship was good -- lugs are sharp -- what you expect from even a mass-produced japanese bike. I had a nearly identical Le Tour -- exactly the same aside from the brazeons -- so while the Luxe is unique, its really a jazzed up Le Tour. No tubing sticker, although I once saw one with a Columbus sticker. My other Le Tour was True Temper. As John says Panasonic made frames for Schwinn. I recently read that Bridgestone did too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN LETOUR LUXE posted by Eric Amlie on 12/11/2000 at 7:19:21 AM
I responded on the Schwinn page. If you want any other specific info that can be gotten out of the catalogs (specs are in there), ping me off list.

AGE / VALUE:   Help for Sam Fitsimmons posted by: Peter Naiman on 12/8/2000 at 11:41:44 PM
I have about 50 shirts left over commemorating the last Larz Anderson National Bike Show. I'm selling these for $10.00 plus Shipping. All proceeds will go to help Sam Fitsimmons. If you would like to donate more it would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou, if interested please email back size and your shipping address. I have about 50 shirts left.

MISC:   You Lightweight guys, Sam needs help posted by: Ray on 12/8/2000 at 5:02:23 PM
An appeal:

I'm very sad to report that, Sam Fitzsimmons is
battling cancer.

Being a lifelong classic and track bicycle advocate,
he isself-employed and without many resources. Sam
has done so much to preserve, promote and educate
others about bicycles. His knowledge of the
SturmeyArcher hub is legendary. Not only has Sam
helped 100's of people find vintage bikes but he has
donated countless hours bringing classic bikes
to community events and gatherings. Sam never asked
for high prices, making little money for himself.
Getting folks matched up with bikes was his
main goal. He has dedicated his personal and financial
life to bicycles.

Please consider helping him now.

I suggest sending him $20 to help out, more if you can
afford it, less if you can't. Some small amount that
will not mean much to you, but will really help him at
this most difficult time. If you have some spare parts
kicking around, auction them on ebay and send the
proceeds, if you do not have access to a digital
camera, you can send the parts to me, and I will
forward all proceeds, including postage paid by the
buyer. My Handle on ebay is BIKE.

Should you have further questions contact me and I
will let you know how you can help or do my best to
answer your questions.

Sam Fitzsimmons
POB 3299
Annapolis MD 21403

Send parts (with description)to:
Paul Genaro
pob 104
Walnutport pa 18088

Thank You,
Paul Genaro

   thank you posted by John E on 12/9/2000 at 2:30:47 PM
Thank you for your efforts on behalf of a "good friend I never met." I will donate some $ and parts to the cause. I think it would also be great if those who do know Sam could assemble a thread of anecdotes, kudos, etc. about him. Lance Armstrong beat cancer; my wife beat cancer; I hope Sam will, too.

MISC:   Raleigh Technium ATB posted by: WIngs on 12/7/2000 at 11:12:17 PM
I read the comments on Raleigh Technium road bikes.
I have never ridden a Raleigh Technium ATB, have you? If you have how is it as a Mountain Bike?
I have seen them with their unusual tube construction (sort of lugs?)

   Raleigh Technium ATB posted by John E on 12/8/2000 at 6:34:44 AM
A friend bought one used, and I rode it briefly. The frame seemed competent, but unremarkable, and it was a bit lighter than my CrMo Schwinn. Since he does not ride much, my friend has not really tested the frame's durability. If you stick to multitrack, nontechnical trails, as I do for both environmental and coordination/courage reasons, it's probably adequate.

(I also detest the Rapid-Fire shifters, but that's another story.)

   RE:Raleigh Technium ATB posted by Wings on 12/8/2000 at 11:11:57 PM
Rapid Fire Shifters: I love them!!!
I also enjoy the crisp shift of the Suntour thumb shifters on my first mountain bike -- they really were and still are great. In the last several years I have enjoyed passing guys (uphill) on their Y bikes -- but then going downhill is another issue (My old bike has no suspension).
Supergo has a sale this weekend and I was there yesterday and today. They had demonstration handle bars set up with Grip Shift: Attack; (Another model - Maybe Centera?) But they had the 9.0 (called "Rocket" --If I remember) and it was fantastic. Wow, that is a great shifter! The other two shifters were better than earlier models but the Rocket is outstanding. It reminded me of a rapid fire grip shift--but, you could click through the entire range in one second with a flick of the wrist . They were also half pipes. I will put them on a future bike!
One problem I have with rapid fire is that it clutters up my handlebar and makes things a little cramped. My shifters and brake levers are combined and I think I would like the option of positioning them!
John, what do you use?

   shifters posted by John E on 12/9/2000 at 9:47:48 AM
As a retrogrouch, I happily use Campy friction downtube levers on my road bikes and SunTour and Shimano thumb levers in friction mode on my mountain bikes.

   RE:shifters posted by Oscar on 12/10/2000 at 4:27:46 PM
My old set of Rapid Fires of course did not have a friction option. As often as the derailleur went out of micro-nano-adjust, I was off the bike to turn a screw. Often, I just rode without the benefit of whatever cog I could not get into. Thats when I devolved into friction.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Condor posted by: Loren on 12/7/2000 at 8:54:35 PM
I have a late-60's ('1967) Condor 10-speed that my dad bought new at the factory in Switzerland. The only info I find on Condors refers to them as being British.... The bike is really neat, Renolyds frame, full campy etc. and I'd like to learn more about it and what it might be worth. Any help would be much appreciated.

   from Guru Sheldon: posted by John E on 12/8/2000 at 6:46:14 AM
Big British builder. Many are quite nice although there are probably different levels. There were some very ornate examples. Figure $ 700 for typical ones and perhaps $1,300 for the most ornate."
It sounds as though you have a top-of-the-line offering. If it was indeed built in Switzerland, perhaps Condor commissioned Allegro or a smaller Swiss builder. In any event, it sounds like my kind of bike! (The easy way to verify country of origin is to unscrew the lockring and perhaps the entire left BB cup and to measure whether it has 24 threads/inch (English, modern ISO) or 1 thread/mm (Swiss, French). In either case, the diameter will be the same, since 1.37" = 35mm, and the fixed cup will be left-threaded.)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Condor posted by Michael on 12/14/2000 at 7:42:54 AM
The English Condor is a famous lightweight road-bike shop in central London (Grays Inn Road). They make custom steel bikes in the traditional manner, and have a top reputation. Their wheel builder is a bit of a legend.

The Swiss Condor is different. They manufacture the Swiss Army bicycle.

AGE / VALUE:   Hiawatha- What year is it ? posted by: Dan on 12/7/2000 at 5:00:42 PM
I have a Hiawatha boys bike "like new" serial # WG3 638-1-31817. Any info on the year this was made or the approxamate value would be appreceiated. Thanks, Dan

WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by: JimW. on 12/7/2000 at 8:19:15 AM
This piece of gear has been discussed here before, by Fred I think.
It's a freewheeling crankset, probably by Shimano, and was
used on at least one Schwinn lightweight model.

It sounds like it would be just the thing for the BikeRod&
Kustom Unlimited Recumbent Dragster. It would be used at
the forward BB for winding-up a pair of flywheels located
at the rear BB, and for maintaining momentum following

Does anyone have one to spare? Cheaper is better, of course.

   RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by Oscar on 12/7/2000 at 7:16:32 PM
Keep your eye out for Suburbans, Varsities and Collegiates at the resale shops. Then you're stuck with a frame and wheels to decorate your walls.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by Wings on 12/7/2000 at 10:48:51 PM
I have never seen one on a varsity.
Usually on Suburbans... perhaps others.
They are interesting to remove from the BB. They have many little ball bearings and if done right the unit stays together. I have always wanted just the crank from the entire assembly because it looks just like Schwinn Cruiser cranks, but I have never found how to remove the crank from the assembly. Does anyone know how to do it? One ends up with a threaded "collar" that does not budge from the crank arm (after the bearings are removed). What are you actually going to do with it?
I knew one guy that liked them in tandems for independent pedalling.

   RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by Keith on 12/8/2000 at 6:04:01 AM
I recently gave away a Panasonic with one, so look out for that brand too.

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by JimW. on 12/8/2000 at 9:19:17 AM
The machine is an LWB recumbent. The front bb has the trick
crankset which drives a chainring mounted to a pair of flywheels, consisting of lead rims cast onto steel chainrings. These are at the rear BB location. Another chainring drives the rear wheel through a fixed-gear cog fitted to the hub.

The machine is fitted with a trigger jack which raises the
rear wheel(s)slightly off the pavement. When the flywheels are up to speed (as fast as possible)the trigger jack is popped, letting the drive wheel hit the pavement. Rubber burns.

The nature of the mechanism would make it hazardous if the
flywheels were capable of driving the crankset, hence the desire for a crankset which wouldn't revolve with the flywheels, but would only allow power input. This type of
mechanism is sometimes called a one-way clutch.

The interesting part of the problem will be achieving high
RPMs on the flywheels, through leg propulsion. Some sort of
upshifting will need to take place during windup, I think, for maximum speed. After launch the cranks would maintain speed and momentum.

It's a very interesting project, with lots of fascinating things to think about.

   clutch-popping posted by John E on 12/8/2000 at 10:10:54 AM
That is an interesting variation on popping the clutch! Is there a picture on a website?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by JimW. on 12/8/2000 at 10:42:47 AM
Oscar's mention of the Schwinn Suburban reminded me of where
I first heard of the Shimano FFS system, Fred Hajny's page
about his Suburban
I like his take on the Positron Shifter, too. That sounds perfect for the job.

The machine will have three applications, in theory. First
(Unlimited Dragster) has a full-streamline fairing, flywheel
launch assist, etc. Second is the same chassis without the
fairing and flyweel(Recumbent Dragster). Third,Since the idea of the machine is that since it needs to be roadworthy, anyhow, it will be usable as an urban runabout
sort of vehicle. In this application, it could have a different, car-like fairing, and different gearing.

The basic chassis would be a central 1.5" thinwall keel tube, with as many bb shells as needed welded in location. A perimeter frame of 1" square thinwall would surround the outside, becoming the lower chainstays aft of the seat tubes, with the upper chainstays of the same stock also serving as diagonal bracing for the seat tubes. At the
front is a tubular axle fitted with two 20" composite mag
wheels wearing skinny GT high-pressure road treads. Ackermann steering will be fitted. At the
rear is a pair of 20" 2.125" rims sharing a common hub, 120mm spokes, fitted with a fixed cog. They are wearing
Musclebike-style fat slicks.

I have no idea how fast the thing will be, but it will be
snazzy looking, and fun to play with.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by Oscar on 12/8/2000 at 11:30:22 AM
What is an LBW recumbent?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by WIngs on 12/8/2000 at 11:24:25 PM
It is interesting you use the term: "at launch."
Has this all been tested? Are you now building the prototype? How far do you think you will be launched? Where are these races held? West coast -- I hope! Talk about creative tinkering!
If you cannot find one of the "freewheel cranks" let me know and I will get you one (hard to do with all that is going on in this month though.). I scout for bikes once a week and see them all the time! I may even have one. I also ride recumbents but have never heard of drags with them! Why not get an electric motor and rev up your wheel (tire on driver of motor) to a high speed --oh the flywheel would give you more of a constant drive...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by JimW. on 12/9/2000 at 6:21:50 AM
An LBW is what we dyslexics call a Long Wheelbase Recumbent.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Freewheeling crankset posted by JimW. on 12/9/2000 at 1:15:52 PM
I'll be putting up a continuing page to do with the progress
of the beast, once the holiday stuff is out of the way. I'm
trying to find time to do some finished drawings of the chassis at the moment. As soon as the drawings are nailed down, I'll be starting the welding jig. As luck would have it, I already have 95% of needed aluminum stock on hand.

I got the idea for the flywheel aspect from the IHPVA- such
energy storage is specifically outlawed for IHPVA events. I have no idea how much effect it'll have on performance. The
big appeal to me is the violence of the concept. Most of the
thrills of my youth involved loud, violent, and dangerous activities. I've lost most of my fascination with danger, hence my quest for a crankset that won't rip my foot off if I do something wrong.

The squeal of tortured rubber is still a big favorite, and I've come up with a way to add to the sound effects. A sound
transducer mounted to the frame can pick up the sound of the
flywheel winding up, as well as the other noises generated by the various moving components of the machine. This audio input is easily amplified, and may be blasted from a PA system or an onboard amplifier/PA horn. This particular machine will be used mostly on the East Coast, although if the IBRKA event concept catches on, people all over might like to build and campaign their own. Part of the concept is
that this is an inherently cheap and fun way to go racing.
If I can build the most advanced class of racer on the cheap, and it's shaping up that way, that will be a very good indicator of the possibilities.

   RE: Dragster Drawings posted by JimW. on 12/15/2000 at 9:42:59 AM
The Dragster page is started. First drawings are in place at: http://bikerodnkustom2.homestead.com/dragster.html

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The Data Book posted by: Keith on 12/7/2000 at 7:26:18 AM
I got the Data Book, an early X-mas present. It's full of wonderful drawings of components and details of frame construction, cable routing, you name it. It is sans text other than some dates. It's pricey for what it is -- suggested retail of $40, but Rivendell sells them to members for $25, and it's well worth that. It may provide some helpful answers to questions of when things were made. For example, ART, it depicts the Campy barcon shifter in 1952 -- a solution for your Paramount? It shows other brand barcons from 1949 and 1950, in the arrangement I described earlier -- one barcon for the rear plus a suicide shifter for the front. It's amazing to see some of the design ideas we see as new on some very early bikes -- used for awhile, abandoned, and rediscovered. And there are design dead ends. I recommend the book -- I think those of you who frequent this site would al enjoy it greatly. If you're going to do a specific restoration project, it might help augment other sources, although it would not substitute for vintage catalogs and ads for that purpose.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The Data Book posted by Art on 12/7/2000 at 8:39:50 AM
Keith, in the single bar con use, did they show the set up with handlebars? I have upright tourist bars. I've never seen bar cons with those, but I suppose they could work. I have a set of Campy bar cons. Does your book say what brand bar cons they were? Who else would have made 50's ones?

   barcon brands posted by John E on 12/7/2000 at 9:14:13 AM
Before SunTour came out with their great ratcheted units in the early 1970s, the only barcons I ever saw were the friction-style Campys with the blue rubber hoods. I do not see why they would not work with most upright bars. By the way, in the late 1960s, my friend put a single Campy barcon and a Campy GS rear on his early-60s Schwinn Continental, which had its original Simplex suicide shifter.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The Data Book posted by Keith on 12/7/2000 at 9:24:49 AM
Art, the barcons are pictured on the ends of drop handlebars. I know the catalog and ads show the Paramount Tourist with uprights -- better to sell the the average American, no doubt. But I know of a local guy -- Chuck Siple -- who bought a Paramount in 1939 or 1940, and his had drops and a derailleur. I suppose I'm going back to the idea that the Tourist was 100% custom, so if you want to set it up with correct date European stuff, that should be okay. The other barcons shown do not indicate brand -- I'd guess Simplex, Cylco or Huret just because they dominated. The non-Campy barcons had large balls on the end of the lever. The drawing of the Campy barcon dated 1952 is very clear, and exploded. I will compare it to some Campy barcons I have, which I believe are from the 70s. Perhaps they never changed the design -- wouldn't that be great? -- since readily available 70s vintage Campy barcons would then be correct. BTW, noticed a site that had a correct saddle for a Paramount Tourist -- they wanted $200 something for it. While I would certainly respect an effort to make a Paramount Tourist as close as possible to the ads/catalogs, I would equally respect a less expensive but really better, eclectic, customized, period correct groupo on a Wastyn Paramount. Your Gran Sport idea is already a step in that direction, and I'd say go all the way. But then I'm not a serious collector.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The Data Book posted by Wings on 12/8/2000 at 11:32:59 PM
I have one Cruiser with Cruiser handlebars and it has a Suntour barcon in it. A mountain bike grip was slid over the barcon and cable. I am more upright on that bike and the barcon shifts essentially the same as on road bars.

MISC:   BRAKES and BREAKS posted by: Art on 12/7/2000 at 6:40:55 AM
I pulled a couple of bikes out of the trash pile at work yesterday which I'll move on to my local bike shop who will then move them on to needy children and adults. I pulled a brake off a Diamondback Viper and it was a huge thing designed like the Shimano Ax brakes...centerpulls brakes operated by a flat wedge that when pulled pushes the brake arms apart, clamping down on the rim of the wheel. I have seen Shimano Dura Ace Ax, 600 Ax, and the plastic version Positron. Was this a style of brake that sort of came and went (with the occassional BMX derivation)? Did they function as well as traditional centerpulls? What's with the Positron line? I see it most often on an incredibly odd/ugly/beautifully ugly/piece of art/junk bike called a Huffy Aerowind. Ever see that bike? I usually see them in pieces by the side of the road! And another thing, what is up with Bicycling Magazine. I've been getting it free for some unknown reason for the last two years, so I probably shouldn't complain, but (the current repair issue not withstanding) this magazine for me is about as easy to read and accessible as the Schwinn Heritage site. And what's up with that site and all the personal rippage and anonymous body slams! And what's up with me saying what's up all the time. I know it's time for a break from my high school teaching job when I'm hanging around the bike rack at lunch while some kid with orange hair is trying to teach this old man the subtleties of bunny hopping. If I can just make it to Christmas break......

   RE:MISC:   BRAKES and BREAKS posted by Keith on 12/7/2000 at 7:23:17 AM
Art, I believe the weird-center-pull brake design you describe goes way back, as in early 1900s. Positron was Shimano's first attempt at indexing, and they launched it on low-end bikes. They did a 180 when they came up with indexed shifters, and introduced it in Dura Ace. Good job on donating the abandoned bikes!

   RE:MISC:   BRAKES and BREAKS posted by Wings on 12/7/2000 at 11:07:50 PM
I am a recently retired Jr. high teacher that loved "Bike rack duty" after school. Kids would always bring their Bmx bikes after school and we would repair them.
As Keith indicated "positron" is a Shimmano early indexed shifter with a rigid steel cable and a freewheeling crank.
I think you are talking about a brake that I first saw on early mountain bikes. It then was refined and the most common version, I think it is by Odessy is called "Pit Bull." The center pull cable pulls a triangular (sort of) plate to push the brake arms to the rim. It was designed to apply gradual pressure. As the plate is pulled up the pressure increases. The side of the plate is curved and not straight so that is an effort at giving gradual ever increasing braking. Not like the V Brake where on little pull and the wheel locks (on BMX).
Another version that I had on my Easy racer recumbent was essentially the same style brake, however it was called a roller cam brake and was made by another outfit.
The earliest version of this I have seen on old mountain bikes or cruisers and it is an ugly looking plate with holes drilled in the arms. It is not pretty, but I have seen several of those.
I put lots of miles on my roller cam and never had a problem. With BMX dirt would be a problem as it would get in the little rollers next to the plate. My favorite BMX brake is the 990 Fx20 by tektro. I like it better than a V brake.
I refurbish all bikes but I love to do BMX bikes more than any other bike -- I give them to a charity. I just love to work on them!

   RE:MISC:   BRAKES and BREAKS posted by Warren on 12/8/2000 at 9:54:45 AM
There was an early version of these centre-pull brakes made by Rich Cunningham...usually found on early eighties Gary Fishers and their ilk. I would consider those particular brakes to be future collectibles for mountain bike afficionados.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   tubeless tires, 28" posted by: Kenny G on 12/6/2000 at 5:41:11 PM
I have a pair of 28" X 1" Lobdell wood racing rims fitted with New Departure hubs. One of the rims has the original United States Rubber 28" X 1 1/4" single tube tire (petrified). These wheels were raced in the 6 day races in the 1930s in Millwaukee, Wisconsin. I want to restore these, but am wondering if single tube (air filled) glue on tires are available? What about sewups?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   tubeless tires, 28 posted by Ray on 12/7/2000 at 6:11:33 AM
You have just run into what every collector of pre war bikes does. The highly sought after 28 inch tubless tires do exist but are very very expensive. Coker makes them but be prepared to sell your soul. I believe the going rate is around $150 ea. Also there are reproduction solid tires for these wheels that look great but ride horrible and weigh a ton. They too are not had for pocket change. I keep my eye out for old bikes with a tire or two still pliable and have bought whole bikes just to get a pair. Believe it or not it is cheaper than paying $300 plus for a new set.

AGE / VALUE:   The Bicycle in Wartime posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/5/2000 at 9:24:05 AM
I never have had an interest in military history and I ain't going to start! UGH! However, the last trip to the used bookstore's cycling section was fruitful because I picked up a copy of The Bicycle in Wartime. I am finding it very interesting and crammed with great pictures. The author has written other books too.One is called Major Taylor Down Under and the other 3 books I forget but he has written a lot about bicycle history and so I have 4 more books to find and add to my library. One interesting thing is his coments about the B.S.A. folding paratrooer bike. I had one of these and was told that the rider had special boots that hooked or fitted into the sliding peg that was the pedal. Perhaps I am wrong because the book doesn't back up that thought. I suggest you get the book and the other 4 this guy has written.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Bicycle in Wartime posted by Oscar on 12/5/2000 at 10:19:49 PM
Strap on your helmet and czech this out!


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Bicycle in Wartime posted by JimW. on 12/7/2000 at 7:22:54 AM
That was great, Oscar! Thanks a lot.