This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Larz Anderson National Bike Show posted by: Peter Naiman on 12/27/2000 at 6:17:23 AM
We are now in the planning stages for the 5th annual Larz Anderson National Bike Show and Swap held on grounds of the Museum of Transportation at 15 Newton St., Brookline, Mass 02446. This years show will on Sunday/August 19th, 2001. This is the largest all periods bike show of it's kind on the East Coast featuring cycles from antique 1890's High Wheelers to modern Vintage Lightweights. Bicycle enthusiasts, vendors and tourists come from all over the Northeast and from as far away as California. Last years show drew over 1600 visitors, 80 swap meet vendors and over 150 bikes to the bike show. Swap meet tables sell bikes, bike parts and related memoribilia from all eras. Vendors include local shops selling close out merchandise, well known framebuilders, collectors and hobbiests. The Concour or Bike show currently gives trophies for best of show in sixteen categories for both restored and unrestored. This years show will be dedicated to
"the American Framebuilders past and present". The show is for everbody young and old alike. Come and have fun, bring the family and stroll the grounds of Larz Anderson Park and visit the Museum of transportation and their extensive antique auto and bicycle collection. For more information call Peter Naiman at (617)469-4581 and leave a message or email to hetchinspete@hotmail.com. Volunteers are also needed to help out the day of the show.
"Happy Holiday Season" Peter Naiman

AGE / VALUE:   Women's Crescent No. 12 posted by: Jeff Kincaid on 12/25/2000 at 5:06:05 PM
In looking through “Collecting and Restoring Antique Bicycles” I thought I might be able to get some help from you regarding an American Crescent girl’s bike my family had stored for over 50 years and that as kids we were allowed to “respectfully” ride for short distances. I inherited the bike and had hoped to fix the wooden wheels that keep it from being rode, but realize that I don’t have the time and knowledge to do so. The bike was made by Western Wheel Works and is a Crescent model No. 12 with serial number 3779(?)33 and has a rear wooden rear fender, two foot-rests on the front forks, a chain that is in excellent shape and made differently than today’s chains, spokes that are tied/soldered at the cross points, a worn-black paint with a thin green strip showing in some places, a one gearing set that engaged differently than a modern bike (wider spacing between teeth), apparently had some kind of linen tires that are now only remnants, and could be rode if the wooden wheels didn’t have partially separating parts with the back rim having a warp. I have made some email to find out so far this bike on eBay would sell from $250-$900 value and would require $2,100 to totally restore it.
This is all that I have been able to find out this bike. Were there many made or whether are there many left? My hope was to get it into someone’s hands that would restore it and or show it as it is so other people could see a little history. I would like to get some money for the bike but eBay seems like such a crap-shoot and would rather have a bicycle enthusiast or museum get the bike. I would appreciate any feedback or information about this bike and who would want it. Thanks for your time.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Women's Crescent No. 12 posted by Keith on 12/28/2000 at 9:49:44 AM
The Oldroads Hi-Wheeler, Boneshaker and Safety discussion group will be better equiped to handle this question. A while back someone brought up a chain driven Pierce Arrow, and I'd guessed it would be worth 1000s, but I was way off, and was very surprised to discover how little a turn of the century bike can go for. Here's an idea -- if you can't sell it for a decent price, donate it to the Bicycle Museum of America or similar non-profit, take the tax deduction, and feel good about where it's going too.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need pics of Schwinn lightweights 1948 posted by: Guido on 12/22/2000 at 9:13:41 PM
I have this old road frame Schwinn, It has #E18004 on the bottom bracket. It has a hockeystick style guard with mounting hardware and a dogleg crank Any pics of the 1948 or earlier Schwinn lightweight line out there ? Any can be sent to my E-mail directly. Thanks in advance, Guido

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need pics of Schwinn lightweights 1948 posted by Keith on 12/28/2000 at 12:11:50 PM
I'm not sure what dogleg crank means -- the Paramount Tourist, which had a lugged frame, used cottered cranks. The pics of the World Traveler in the Pridmore and Hurd Schwinn book show it with one-piece Ashtebula cranks (pages 91 and 97). I'd provide more detail and ask this question on the Schwinn forum.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need pics of Schwinn lightweights 1948 posted by Keith on 12/28/2000 at 12:14:34 PM
P.S. There was also the Scheinn Superior lightweight.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need pics of Schwinn lightweights 1948 posted by Keith on 12/28/2000 at 12:20:17 PM
P.P.S. Sorry this is peicemeal -- there was also the New World model in the 40s. Pridore and Hurd at 62-63.

MISC:   1870's Rambler posted by: John Benson on 12/22/2000 at 8:09:22 PM
I have a friend who owns this 1870's wooden wheeled bicycle. He has asked me to build a rear wheel stand for displaying this bike because I do hobby blacksmithing. Can anyone out there tell me where I can find a picture of such an apparatus so I can make something that will do this relic justice? Thanks, John B.

   RE:MISC:   1870's Rambler posted by sam on 12/23/2000 at 7:55:37 PM
Check out ebay #1105353865 or go to www.hampshirebicycleexchange.com they carry this stand

AGE / VALUE:   Bicycle Classics is back! posted by: Bruce VR on 12/22/2000 at 3:56:21 PM
Bicycle Classics is back in the Vintage Bike business, they have yo-yo'ed a couple of times in the last years but from their web site sounds like it is for real this time, even a retail store in the best state in the US -- Colorado!

Good for us, eh?!

   thank you posted by John E on 12/22/2000 at 7:24:56 PM
Thanks for the posting. Happy Holidays!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Happy Holidays and Safe Riding posted by: Brian L. on 12/22/2000 at 12:29:36 PM
To all of the people I've corresponded with and swapped parts with, and to all of the contributors to this great website, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas/Hannukah, safe riding and a great 2001.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Happy Holidays and Safe Riding posted by Art on 12/22/2000 at 1:55:02 PM
Happy Holidays from Phoenix! Art

   likewise posted by John E on 12/22/2000 at 7:29:11 PM
Thanks to all of you, this is one of the best websites around. Happy Holidays to all!

   anticycling (?) website posted by John E on 12/22/2000 at 7:36:36 PM
Thank you, Chris L., for alerting the folks on cyclery.com/rant about the following website:


First read the author's caution about his love of satire, etc., then click on "motor" and read what he has to say about road bicycling. I would love to see him debate transportation cycling expert and fellow Brit., John Franklin. Comments, anyone?

AGE / VALUE:   Lenton Sports -- hodge podge of parts posted by: dave on 12/22/2000 at 9:52:22 AM
I found a Robin Hood Lenton Sports today ... a real mix of stuff on it,
Weinman 999 brakes, Mafac levers, Simplex front DR, Campy Valentino Extra
RD with two red C's on it, Huret shifters ... no tubing sticker, oh and
Raleigh cottered cranks with the 3 ovals in the chainring.

I assume this is just a mid range early '70s bike. Anybody know what
might have been original equipment?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Lenton Sports -- hodge podge of parts posted by dave on 12/28/2000 at 6:00:09 AM
It has a Robin Hood head badge ... I don't remember which of the tubes
says Lenton Sports but will look tonight when I go home. Wheels are
27" .. did not see a maker or brand on the rims or on the freewheel

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Lenton Sports -- hodge podge of parts posted by dave on 12/29/2000 at 4:02:50 AM
I looked at the bike this morning and it has Lenton Sports on both
sides of the downtube and looks like it used to say Robin Hood
on the seattube but all the decals have come off there. I know
earlier Lentons had Reynolds 531 tubing ... but of course the Lenton
name has high end conotations whereas Robin Hood says (to me at least)
middle grade (and usually 3 speed) ...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lenton Sports -- hodge podge of parts posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/23/2000 at 10:57:27 AM
A what? Does this have the Robin Hood badge and say Lenton Sports on the frame of the bike? Where does it say Lenton Sports? What size wheels are on it?

AGE / VALUE:   Vintage Bicycle Repair Shop Inventory For Sale posted by: Brian on 12/21/2000 at 6:55:59 PM
For Sale or Trade complete bicycle repair shop parts inventory from my fathers shop, closed in 1992. All NOS parts and tools. Follow this link to see inventory list.
Much more to be included but not inventoried yet. Offers near $3500.00. Will consider trades for antique bicycles, motorcycle, whizzer, motor wheel, other interesting trades. Many parts from 70's-80's. Email for more information.

MISC:   ITOH 10 SPEED???? posted by: Robert on 12/21/2000 at 11:14:25 AM
Saw an Itoh 10 speed at lunch. Most of frame tubes were stainless. Any info appreciated on this bike.

   C. ITOH posted by John E on 12/21/2000 at 2:49:34 PM
Are you sure the tubes were stainless? I recall seeing some
pretty conventional, unexceptional C.Itoh road bikes in the 1970s.

Also, from Sheldon, the one-man "Click and Clack" of cycling (and even in the right city):
"Brand name used by Bridgestone in the early '70s. These were pretty crummy bikes."

   RE:C. ITOH posted by Robert on 12/21/2000 at 4:18:26 PM
Yep, definately stainless. They were labeled so. Top tube, lbottom tube and seat post tube were stainless. Stays were steel. I was just curious about them. Was a very clean example for 30.00 .

   RE:RE:C. ITOH posted by Clyde on 12/22/2000 at 6:30:32 AM
Holiday greeting folks,
Your posting of the S.S. Itoh remined me of a reference to one in "Book of Bikes and Bicycling", (1975) by Dick Teresi. It has a picture of one with a description in the "more materials of the future" section. It states "You might also consider a stainless steel frame. Itoh offers a stainless bike, model SM-3 for under $200. Since stainless steel won't rust, it's not a bad idea if you plan to treat your bike badly, leaving it out in the rain, riding it underwater, etc." Picture caption notes "Odd stainless steel bike from Itoh is billed as "waterproof" for those who like to bike downriver. Bike is advertised at about 29 pounds, has Shimane Titlist derailleurs and a superwide range of gears." So, enjoy your underwater riding!

FOR SALE:   Check out this water bottle posted by: Ray on 12/19/2000 at 8:33:47 AM
Look at this offering of a vintage aluminum water bottle on ebay.

MISC:   should i spread rear triangle? posted by: david corr on 12/18/2000 at 6:15:00 AM
i have an '81 ron cooper. love the bike. full campy super record. i'm the original owner and i would never sell it.
however, i've been thinking of getting a new bike with 9-speeds. i think i'll like having the flexibility more gears offer, but i'm not sure i want to spend the bucks. (will i really like the feel of the new bike as much as the cooper?)
anyway, here's the question. my bike shop said they could spread the rear triangle enough to accomodate today's wider hubs. that scares me. anybody know whether or not this is okay? thanks.

   RE:MISC:   should i spread rear triangle? posted by Oscar on 12/18/2000 at 7:58:02 AM
Rear triangles are spreadable. If your bike mechanic is knowledgable, he will know how far it can be spread.

I recommend an 8 speed hub rather than 9. A nine speed needs a narrower chain and probably a narrower chankset. I also hear that it's hard to friction shift in 9, so you need new shifters and derailleurs.

An 8 speed can use the same chain, crankset etc that you are currently using. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

   RE:MISC:   should i spread rear triangle? posted by Tom Adams on 12/18/2000 at 8:03:20 AM
Well, I've had it done to two bikes, both from five speed to six speed (120 mm spread to 126 mm) a Peugeot PX 10 and a Teesdale touring frame. Both frames had beucoup chainstay length which might have helped. I also had it done at a pro shop that had the specialized tools (they clamp on to both drop outs and applied gradual spreading force to both drop outs and once). I would be wary of a shop that grabs the triangle in both hands and starts yanking.

So if you're spreading 4-5 mm, I don't think it hurts anything. But if you were going from 120mm to 130 or 135 mm, I would be worried.

If your frame is already 126 mm, you might want to consider a no-spread alternative to upgrade to 8 speeds. A 126 cassette hub will take 8 cogs of a nine speed cluster in the 126 space, and viola, instant 16 or 24 speed, for the price of a new rear wheel that you would have to get anyway. Harris Cyclery has 105 cassette hubs for sale in the 126 mm size, and have some description of the hybrid 8 speed process. Is supposed to work with modern shifters, too.

   RE:RE:MISC:   should i spread rear triangle? posted by Oscar on 12/18/2000 at 7:35:56 PM
Eight nine-speed cogs will fit onto a 126mm hub? Awesome idea! Does it shift well in friction?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   should i spread rear triangle? posted by Tom Adams on 12/19/2000 at 5:04:28 AM
Haven't tried it myself (I usually run triples so 7 speeds are plenty for me) but you can ask Sheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery for some guidance. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/hub.html

   why not? posted by John E on 12/19/2000 at 8:04:18 AM
Since 9-speed cogs (for an 8-speed 126mm OLD system) are only about 15 percent closer together than 8-speed cogs, I do not see why they should be difficult to shift in friction mode, particularly with small-drum, smooth operating levers like Campys.

   21 speeds instead? posted by John E on 12/19/2000 at 8:08:21 AM
I, too, have been using conventional freewheels. I am delighted with my new 3x6 half-step-plus-grannie system, (48-45-34 / 13-15-17-19-21-24) which I could cheaply convert to a 3x7 (same cogs, plus a 28) if I needed a lower gear.

WANTED:   Road frame for fixed gear convert. posted by: Walter on 12/17/2000 at 6:26:17 AM
I'm looking for a road frame to convert to a fixed gear trainer. 56cm is ideal but could go 57. I'd prefer relatively "tight" geometry. No vertical dropouts. Color isn't important. The important thing is that I'm not lookng for a true thoroughbred and don't want to spend thoroughbred money. Just a decent "ride" that I can burn a few pounds off on. An old Motobecane would be a good example. I'll be out of town for Xmas but back before New Years. I'll respond to emails asap as I won't to get this done fast.

   RE:WANTED:   Road frame for fixed gear convert. posted by Walter on 12/17/2000 at 8:48:21 PM
I used the wrong word in my last sentence. I WANT to get this done fast. Oh well.

AGE / VALUE:   Bob Jackson posted by: Mike Spainhour on 12/16/2000 at 8:22:43 AM
Anyone have an idea how much a 1970's vintage Bob Jackson is worth??
Lots of diffrent stuff Campi thru the bars shift levers clip out cable holders
etc. Other stuff not stock I am sure but kinda nice ride.

Thanks Mike

   nice bike posted by John E on 12/16/2000 at 10:01:36 AM
I have always admired Bob Jacksons, but never had the pleasure of owning one. If it's in superb condition, it's worth several hundred dollars; otherwise, perhaps $100 to $200. If it's your size, keep it!

FOR SALE:   RALEIGH INTERNATIONAL posted by: Mark on 12/15/2000 at 7:43:52 PM
I have a very nice 60cm Carlton Raleigh International that I must sell. It is early 60s, all original Raleigh green, fancy nervex lugs, leather Brooks saddle, full Campy Nuovo gruppo with hi-flange Record hubs. Only the tubulars have been replaced. Please e-mail me with any serious offer. condition is an 8

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by: Keith on 12/15/2000 at 8:28:09 AM
A friend mentioned that he read somewhere about a formula to make chain lube. It involves mixing 30 wt synthetic with some sort of solvent. Anyone ever hear of this or try it? I'm not happy with any one product at this point -- WD-40 is too thin, Tri-Flo is messy and expensive, and White Lightning and Pedros waxes, while clean, don't last long enough. (I recall an Article in the local racing newsletter years ago that explained about soaking the chain in kerosene overnight, brushing it clean, then soaking it in motor oil, then allowing it to hang to let the excess drip off, then wipe clean or something like that).

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by Skip Echert on 12/15/2000 at 5:21:36 PM
Hello Keith -

Before the current wax chain formulas there was this method: Clean the chain. Melt paraffin wax in a coffee can. Immerse the chain in the melted wax for a few minutes. Take it out and hang to drip. The chain will not attract dirt and will stay lubed a long time ans works fine in wet conditions. I first read about this 20+ years ago, but don't remember the source, perhaps Bicycling mag.



   White Lightning/Raceday posted by John E on 12/16/2000 at 7:05:39 AM
After years of spraying LPS-3, Bullshot, or Schwinn chainlube, I now use Raceday on all my chains. I find the buildup of white wax easier to deal with than my traditional petro-grime. However, I do not necessarily advocate it for those of you who frequently cycle under wet conditions.

   RE:White Lightning/Raceday posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/16/2000 at 1:23:39 PM
And the debate about the best cycle chain lube continues!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by john hawrylak on 12/16/2000 at 3:46:40 PM
The method described, mixing a high viscosity oil with a solvent, is discussed by Sheldon Brown in his article on chain lubricates. The idea is the solvent allows the oil to easily flow into the roller of the chain and allows the oil to spread via capillary action. The solvent then evaporate leaving the high viscosity oil in all the locations requiring lubrication.
The trick is 'what is the correct solvent?' and 'what is the proper viscosity of oil to use?'

I would recoomend a carboretor type cleaner you buy in a can (like Gumout, but not the spray) and use a gear oil (SAE 80 or 90). The carb cleaner evaporates fast and the gear oil should stay in place.

One could try a Harley Davidson dealer to find if they have a ready to use product, although I think Harleys use a chain lubricating system, so theynot have a solvent oil mixture. However, Honda, Suzuki, or snowmobiles might have a product.

Finally, I would stay away from MOTOR oils sicne they have additive packages to combat combustion products and acids. All the major companies make pure lubricating oils, e.g. Exxon Terrastic line, which do not have the internal combustion engine additives and used for bearing lubrication on elelctric motors, pumps, etc. This would be a better product than plain motor oil.

Hope this stimulats some thought.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/17/2000 at 9:24:13 AM
My mechanic told me used, dirty motor oil is best for chains. I'll ask him to tell me why and I'll post his theory here.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by Eric Amlie on 12/18/2000 at 9:23:08 AM
Part of a thread from cyclingforum.com:
Date: November 28, 2000 04:21 PM
Author: dave
Subject: homemade prolink

When you run out of prolink, mix up a batch of "clean and lube". 3 parts mineral spirits to 1 part synthetic motor oil. I mix a large batch in an old water bottle, and use it to refill the prolink bottles. Works just as well. It's really great for Campy 10 speed chains. Applied frequently, and liberally, with thorough wiping, the chain will never require cleaning.



Date: November 29, 2000 09:39 AM
Author: rdt (rdtcanon@clear.lakes.com)
Subject: home brew

I am using Dura-lube instead of a synthetic. Its claim to fame is that it bonds to the metal, reducing both overall and starting friction in engines. The graphs on the bottle show a very low coefficient of friction at very high loads compared with other lubes such as oil, Slick, et. all. I only repeat a claim that I've seen saying that bicycle chains undergo higher stress than motorcycle chains because of the smaller size.

I must also admit that I only recently made up a batch and haven't even ridden the bike. It did seem quite thin when mixed 3/1 mineral spirits/Dura-lube. Just thought I'd throw the idea into the meme pool.



Date: November 29, 2000 11:19 AM
Author: Wayne Lim (Wayne_Lim@wawp.uscourts.gov)
Subject: home brew, part II

A few years ago, a friend purchased a bottle of "Prolong" engine treatment. After hearing about the Slick 50 debacle, he couldn't bring himself to pour it into his engine so I dipped a bike chain in it, wiped it as dry as possible, and installed it on my road bike. If I remember right, I don't think I had to lube that chain for most of that year, though it did get pretty grimy.



Date: November 29, 2000 11:44 AM
Author: climbo
Subject: the 3/1

the 3/1 ratio for me seemed a little thin also with regular synthetic motor oil so I made it more like 2/1 and it has been working great. I don't lube any more than I did with the ProGold, in fact I probably lube less now. Good and cheap.


   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Homemade Chain Lube? posted by ron on 12/18/2000 at 7:52:39 PM
Used, dirty motor oil is reputedly full of carcinogens! Beyond that, it contains many other by-products of the combustion process that are nasty enough to shy away from. I would not touch the stuff with the proverbial ten foot pole. Just my two cents worth....