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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   Indoor riding posted by: Keith on 12/4/2000 at 8:36:52 AM
I rode an hour on rollers yesterday, while watching the 2000 TDF video. Nice and warm in the basement. Anyone else out there ride rollers? I think they're good for form and balance, but not much use for strength training. I've got a set of the old Cinellis -- remember those?

   RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by Mike Stone on 12/4/2000 at 5:03:18 PM
I never "got" the roller thing. A huge part of the fun of bicycling for ne is actually going somewhere and feeling the air in my face and lungs.

Winter is just another flavor of the outdoors. I say bundle-up and get outside and ride, ride, ride.

I always thought it was goofy that women put on make-up, drive to the health club, and spin for 45 minutes, then drive home. It seemed to make more sense to me to actually bike to the gym, turn around, and bike back - excersize done!

Roller machines seem a step closer to that, maybe not exactly because you can stay at home and watch your own TV, but why not just bike outside?

I'm not trying to be nasty, but what's the point of riding on rollers?


   indoor cycling for rehab. posted by John E on 12/4/2000 at 8:39:58 PM
I like to cycle, walk, or jog (4 mi. R/T) to the YMCA to use the weight room and the rowing simulator, to preserve what little upper body strength and structure I have. Partly because I live in San Diego, I normally do not go in for "studio cycling," but I did find the Y's exercycles very useful while I recovered from my kneecap dislocation and later from my Colles' radius fracture. I did a little "real world" cycling with my left knee immobilized and the left crank removed (quite a workout, even in the mountain bike's 28T chainring!), and the right handlebar extension still bears scratches from my forearm cast, but in both cases I had to cut back considerably on my cycling speed and distance.

   RE:indoor cycling for rehab. posted by Wings on 12/4/2000 at 11:14:41 PM
In 1978 a couple of days after knee surgery I hobbled out on crutches to the curb where my daughters held my varsity. By standing on the curb I could swing my lig over the saddle, hand them the crutches and off I went!
I was an addicted runner. I had to run. It was not a choice. I really had to run for the high. Maybe I could miss one day a week but my goal was always to go a year without missing a day of running. I was a nut! I have never felt that way about riding a bike, well maybe a little. My riding in summer is usually steep hills where I can huff and puff and get that running feeling again! Gosh, just writing this makes me tired...think I will get some Ben and Jerry's!

   RE:RE:indoor cycling for rehab. posted by Wings on 12/4/2000 at 11:24:05 PM
For about one month in the winter it is too nasty to ride (55deg or lower, rain, wind) so I ride a recumbent on a mag trainer. Or I roll the Schwinn Air Dyne (Bought it for $8.95 :) -- What a great machine!) out in front of a tv and it give me a great workout. But that is only when I have to have exercise or I go crazy -- otherwise I love to be outdoors where it is an experience of body and mind and a de-stress time--a time to relax. I have never even been in a gym. I would rather mow a lawn, dig trenchs, lay bricks, and accomplish something while I exercise. I used to walk the malls after work on bad rainy nights! The air in the malls is not too good. I do not think I could live where some of you guys live. Today was t shirt weather again -- just so great.

   RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by Keith on 12/5/2000 at 6:13:33 AM
Rollers, as opposed to stationary bikes or trainer stands, are good for form because they require a finer sense of balance than riding on the road. I think any number of road riders, who don't seem to be able to ride a really straight line, would benefit from some time on them, along with fixed gear (like some people I ride with, who slow down consderably any time they stand to pedal because they pause in their stroke). If you can ride rollers and shift, get your water bottle, and ride no hands without breaking your line, you're probably going to be a safer and more efficient rider than a lot of the folks out there. If you've ridden rollers you know what I mean, if you haven't you won't. They also help somewhat in maintaining condition. I'm continuing to ride outdoors, but at times I get tired of it -- it's just not fun for me when it's cold, dark, and on top of it there's significant black ice out there. And hand washing all that polypropalene and wool every day gets to be a drag.

   RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by Art on 12/5/2000 at 6:35:04 AM
I ride rollers, in doors, with the air conditioning blasting when the daytime highs hit 120, the nights don't get below 100. If I do ride at 5am in that kind of heat, if I stay out too long or don't drink enough, I can end up feeling like crap for a week. Rollers and stationary bikes have there place and it seems if there is one piece of machinery that you can always find in a junk heap(or a yard sale for $5), it's a stationary bike

   RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by Keith on 12/5/2000 at 7:23:03 AM
This is pretty key to explain or some of you are going to misunderstand this -- rollers are not like stationary bikes or stationary trainers (not that I find anything wrong with those, but I don't really enjoy them much). Rollers require a level of balance and attention that goes beyond road riding, and far beyond stationary bikes or stands that aren't going to fall over no matter what. I'm not trying to exagerate -- I'm not saying that you become a god if you ride rollers or something -- but the discipline of riding rollers can enhance your riding skills. Art -- you ride rollers -- can you weigh in on this?

   RE:RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/5/2000 at 9:23:15 AM
If you're going to be serious about cycling, if you want to be in shape and fit cycling- wise then the use of rollers makes sense. A lot of racers have used them and they still do don't they? I think Keith is right to use them. Years ago when I was 16 and I was buying up the personal track bike from this racer's daughter I also got in the deal a set of rollers and I remember how important she said they were and that all her brothers (the team members) were constantly on them for training. She acted like the bike and the set of rollers were to be used together and often. When I said I never had used rollers before she looked at me like I was from another planet.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Indoor riding posted by Art on 12/5/2000 at 11:32:46 AM
My wife can read a book while she's riding a stationary bike. except for the aerobic and muscular benefits (which are good) riding this bike won't help her skills riding on the street. I had a stationary bike that had rollers in the back, but the front forks, with the wheel removed, and the supports on either side of the rear wheel, prevented me from tipping over, allowed me to ride my own bike, and was an improvement over the stationary bike . I could read a book while riding this bike. Rollers take the process a step farther. You're on your own bike, with both wheels usually unsupported. Balance, cadence, concentration are a integral part of riding the bike. I can't read a book on this bike any better than on a street bike. (My wife used to read novels driving her car across North Dakota but that's another story). The positive effects of the balance , cadence, and concenration are skills that translate to improving one's ability to ride on the street.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Technium posted by: Tom Faust on 12/3/2000 at 10:32:13 PM
I recently came across a Raleigh Technium for sale in my 'hood. The price is low enough that it is not a factor. My qustion is giving it room worthwhile? It is a 10 speed with a large aluminum frame. The gear is mostly Suntour. The color is medium blue. The headbadge reads that it is an American Raleigh. Comments and opinions please.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Technium posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 6:30:18 AM
Some people defend bonded tube construction, others trash it. You'll hear anecdotal reports both ways -- individuals whose frames came unbonded, on one side, and the occasional bike shop guy who'll say "I sold 100s of them and none of them ever came back" (but were any of them ridden?). I personally don't trust it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Technium posted by Warren on 12/5/2000 at 5:12:48 PM
They're not vintage...nor lightwieght. They get a 3 outa 10 on my scorecard FWIW.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Technium posted by Warren on 12/5/2000 at 5:13:02 PM
They're not vintage...nor lightweight. They get a 3 outa 10 on my scorecard FWIW.

MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by: Art on 12/3/2000 at 5:46:45 PM
1. How do you date a Campy Grand Sport rear derailleur?
2. What do you know about a Campy Grand Tourismo?
3. A buddy of mine picked up a bike, no paint or other identifying marks. Simplex dropouts. Cantilever breaks. Nervex lugs. Water bottle holes on the downtube and seat tube. But here is what is unusual...It has another hole up above the holes on the seat tube toward the seat and another hole about equidistant out from the seat tube on the bottom of the top tube. They appear to be the same type of screw hole as the water bottle holes. Conjecture is that they might have been for a shoulder strap for carrying....ever see or hear of this? Thanks.

   RE:MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by mikeq on 12/4/2000 at 6:10:55 AM
3. Taps for removeable pump pegs I would say. Some ancient 10-speeds had them.

   RE:MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 6:38:04 AM
Answers: (1) You ask her out. Okay, I don't know, and maybe it's a blessing for you -- I suppose try to obtain old catalogs, or contact Frank Berto directly -- fberto@ix.netcom.com (2) the Grand Turismo is a huge, heavy, beautiful hunk of chromed steel Campy made as a touring deraileur, made 1971-74, according to Berto, who pans it as the worst Derailleur Campy ever made.(I have an eraly 70s publication that raves about it, the author of which is suspect in Berto's eyes for having dine so). (3) Got me.

   RE:MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 6:38:12 AM
Answers: (1) You ask her out. Okay, I don't know, and maybe it's a blessing for you -- I suppose try to obtain old catalogs, or contact Frank Berto directly -- fberto@ix.netcom.com (2) the Grand Turismo is a huge, heavy, beautiful hunk of chromed steel Campy made as a touring deraileur, made 1971-74, according to Berto, who pans it as the worst Derailleur Campy ever made.(I have an eraly 70s publication that raves about it, the author of which is suspect in Berto's eyes for having dine so). (3) Got me.

   RE:MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by Eric Amlie on 12/4/2000 at 8:03:58 AM
I'll go with Frank Berto on the Gran Tourismo. I had one on my '71 Paramount P15-9. It was awful. I replaced it with the older version of the Campy Rally, much better!

   RE:MISC:   I GOT A QUESTION.... posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 8:29:33 AM
Art, there's a potential parts bike on ebay -- 50s-60s Raleigh Gran Sport with, you guessed it, a Campy Gran Sport rear deraileur. Other stuff could be marginally correct for your Paramount. Some (not me) might call it a crime to part it out, especially since it has Raleigh decaled Veloce fenders. Item # 110 325 9571. Also, the Gran Sport was revised in 1954, but I don't know what the change was. Pulleys were changed from drilled to solid at some point.

   that's 3 questions, Art posted by John E on 12/4/2000 at 8:49:18 PM
1) I am surprised there is no year stamp, as on the Records, NRs, etc.
2) Berto's right (as usual).
3) Given the canti. brakes, I think you may have a quasi-cross bike. I side with the carry strap theory, because a seat tube mounted pump would conflict with a seat tube mounted H20 bottle.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Competition posted by: WIngs on 12/1/2000 at 8:28:49 PM
(I also posted this on English Roadsters in error.)

Now, you must know that I was very happy riding my Varsity from 1964 to 1986 - for $35 it got me everywhere I wanted to go so I never looked at higher end bikes! So I therefore only know of higher end bikes from what I read here!
Today I was given a Raleigh Competition (Black paint).
Reynolds 531 tubes.
Reynolds 531 fork.
Normandy Deluxe Competion hubs.
AVA Rims (sew ups) (I only found a sticker on the rim-no writing --What are they? I vever heard of them.)
Huret derailers and downtube shifters.
TA Crank (2 chain rings) (10 speed)
Weiman Brakes
Condition = Approx. 8 to 8.5
What do I have? What is its approximate value?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Competition posted by Rich on 12/2/2000 at 12:57:26 AM
Prob about $150 - $200 (was $300ish new in '75)... Nice bike eh?

   AVA rims posted by John E on 12/2/2000 at 12:08:11 PM
AVA is a French company noted more for handlebars and stems than for rims. Sheldon recommends replacing the stems for safety; I have no idea how sound the rims are, but the box-style rims designed for tubular tyres tend to stronger than the open-channel ones used with wire-ons or clinchers. For your own safety, be on the lookout for cracks in the cranks, the handlebar and stem, the rims, and the hub flanges. Overall, the bike should be pretty comparable to my 1980 Peugeot PKN-10E, which would be my first choice for a century or double century ride.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Competition posted by Wings on 12/3/2000 at 11:56:08 PM
Thanks for all the information!
I obtained this bike on a trade with the understanding that I would locate a good home for this bike. This is the nicest Raleigh (Other than my 20 folder) that I have found, but this bike is too good of a bike for me. I therefore will attempt to sell this bike in a couple of months to someone who will keep it warm and dry, appreciate it and perhaps ride it! I will keep you posted.
I love Schwinns and recumbents, but I do have a Motobecane that I just love to look at (Black and red) and every now and then take for a ride-- what a bike! This is not to put down the Raleigh -- it is in a class of its own. I will keep you posted.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Competition posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 6:40:53 AM
Let me know if you're selling it or would trade (I've got several Brit 3-speeds, including DL-1s).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Competition posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 6:41:33 AM
P.S. velohund@yahoo.com

MISC:   Renaissance Cycles posted by: Oscar on 12/1/2000 at 1:34:37 PM
I was very glad to see that Renaissance Cycles is back up and running a week after their tragic fire. There is already a decent inventory of NOS goods that are hard to find in the U.S. Overjoyed was I to see full hoods for Mafac Racer brake levers. Up until recently I didn’t even know that these levers ever had hoods. www.renaissance-cycles.com

   RE:MISC:   Renaissance Cycles posted by Bruce VR on 12/1/2000 at 3:44:43 PM
Baron is the best in the business (Greg Parker, John Barron, and Jim @ Cyclart are awesome too!). These guys are the ones to see if you need vintage lightweight goodies... Knowing how "The Baron" sniffs out parts throughout Europe I'm sure he'll recover in a couple of months. My prayers are with him.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Boardman's new-old hour record posted by: Keith on 12/1/2000 at 8:45:05 AM
On October 31 Chris Boardman broke Eddy Merckx's hour record, by 10 meters, using a bike meeting the new UCI hour record rules -- diamond frame, regular drop handle bars (NO aero bars clip on or otherwise), and spoked wheels. The latest VeloNews has an article about it, as well as a point-counterpoint editorial (one writer ripped the new rules, repleat with sarcasm about toe clips and straps and woll jerseys, while the other struggled to defend it). Tellingly, Boardman himself is in favor of the new rules, which not only levels the playing field, but keeps technology from overshadowing the athlete's accomplishment. He even rode at sea level, foregoing the advantage of thinner air. His bike was a steel (Columbus) frame Look. What do you guys think? (I recall reading somewhere that Eddy's bike was actually lighter than the new UCI rules would allow, have any of you seen that?)

   bike weight posted by John E on 12/1/2000 at 1:17:43 PM
Since even a half-kilo change in bicycle weight would not materially affect one's time in a flat course or velodrome one-hour endurance trial, I will sound like a Varsinental apologist and not worry about the legality of Eddy's bike.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Boardman's new-old hour record posted by Oscar on 12/1/2000 at 2:14:24 PM
It kind of reminds me of Japanese Keirin (sp?) racers. They have very strict rules about equipment and dress - down to white gloves. Why not compare racer to racer rather than bike to bike?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Boardman's new-old hour record posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 7:06:24 AM
It was October 27, not 31. I'm in favor of the rules, and anyone who want to use a superbike is still free to set an unofficial record. Superbikes are kinda weird. I recall Rebecca Twigg giving up on her $15,000 superbike before leaving the '96 Olympics -- she said the handling was terrible. But if you're going with technology, why not go all the way with a HPV enclosed recumbent? Anyway, I favor the standardization, so ability is compared to ability. John, I too think the weight doesn't matter, although I note that Boardman had to sprintat the end of his ride to get the 10 meters on Eddy, so I suppose the weight could affect acceleration. If he failed to beat Eddy's record by a a few centimetrs, maybe, just maybe it would matter. I also don't know if the hour event is standing or rolling start.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Boardman's new-old hour record posted by rodney pruitt on 12/6/2000 at 12:50:54 PM
Could you please send me any information on a girl columbia
bicycles dating from 1892 model 31. Do you have any metal rims that would fit with this model 31? I would like both
rims,front and rear. Thanks Rod Pruitt

AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicylces posted by: david on 12/1/2000 at 8:55:49 AM
I made a couple typos. It is a Pierce bicycle, and a softail.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicylces posted by Brian L. on 12/1/2000 at 12:26:25 PM
There is one for sale here in Seattle at Bikesmith that sounds almost exactly the same - what are the chances. Chrome is near perfect. Asking price is $1,200 and it's been siting for a while.

AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by: David on 12/1/2000 at 8:49:44 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a Piece bicycle. It is from the early 1900's and beautiful. It is full suspension with the leaf spring fork and sortail rear end. It has a very nice head badge that reads "tried and true". The is black and in excellent condidtion, chrome may need rechroming. It is chain driven not shaft driven, with a skiptooth spocket. I know the history of Pierce bicycles and was wondering if anyone could give me an estimate of what they think the bike may be worth. Thank you much!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by Keith on 12/1/2000 at 9:02:58 AM
I think your question would be better directed to the highwheeler-boneshaker-safety bike forum. I've seen the pictures of the Pierce "Hygienic Cushion" dual suspension bikes in the coffee table books (like Pridmore & Hurd). What a beauty! I'm not qualified to opine, but I'm certain it must be worth several $1000s.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by Art on 12/1/2000 at 9:16:28 AM
It's a valuable bike. I'd be interested in the specifics...is there a price on it and you're not sure if it is worth it, or are you going to make an offer, or are you looking to sell it. If this is an original bike, it is definitely a museum piece. Like Keith said, it is a several thousand dollar bike to the right collector.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by david on 12/1/2000 at 10:51:21 AM
what other specifics on the Pierce are you interested in. It is all original.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by Keith on 12/1/2000 at 11:39:58 AM
You mention re-chroming. That would get into the debate on whether to leave the original finish alone on a bike of this age. In this regard I think it may deserve a different strategy than, say, then a pre-war ballooner. Go to the other forum (highwheeler-boneshaker-safety) and get a thread started on that. My impression is that the earlier the bike, the more valuable the original finish is, regardless of condition. (I recall a posting about a boneshaker -- the owner was advised to not even clean it.) Check me on this. I also recall a posting bemoaning that someone used slick candy finish Imron to restore a turn-of-the-century bike -- I concur that's really wrong. I understand you're not talking about Imron, but it's a matter of degree.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by Keith on 12/1/2000 at 12:27:21 PM
One last thing -- I'm curious -- are you sure it's chrome and not nickel plating?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pierce bicycles posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/2/2000 at 11:15:09 AM
Good question Keith! It might very well be nickel.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Voyager posted by: Art on 11/30/2000 at 7:27:34 AM
Anybody know anything about the Voyager? The one I found has a bolt on rear rack and eyelets to bolt on the front rack to the sides of the fork blades. Anyone have a rack?

   nice find; check Schwinn.com posted by John E on 11/30/2000 at 7:56:20 AM
Nice find, Art. The schwinn.com / heritage / collectors forum archives have some good Voyager discussions. Yours is a very decent Japanese-made touring bike from the late 1970s bike boom, when Schwinn was grasping for marketable alternatives to the overweight Varsinentals. Period-correct front racks are rare, but should be findable.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Voyager posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 11:55:35 AM
Sheldon Brown says the LeTours were made by Panasonic, but I have no idea whether they also made the Voyager. It's really a very nice bike, in my opinion. The 1-speed I built with a Voyager frame has a fairly responsive ride -- better than the garden variety Japanese stuff I've been on. And the half-chrome on the rear triangle, and fork crown, gives it the look of a higher end early 70s machine. As I've mentioned before, a local guy has done Paris-Brest-Paris twice on his Voyager (but it got squashed in shipping on the way home from the last one).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Voyager posted by Oscar on 12/1/2000 at 8:44:09 AM
There's also a World Voyageur (sp?) that I see occasionally. They are lugged touring bikes with long-reach forks. They are fully chromed under the paint (Sky Blue is the best).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Voyager posted by john hawrylak on 12/3/2000 at 6:51:56 AM
I have a 1975 model of the Voyager II which was put in the Schwinn catalog in mid 74. Very nice, light bike with a good ride. The wheelbase is longer then the LeTour so your seat is further forward of the rear wheel. The 21" frame weighs 5.0 stripped and the front frok is 1.5 lbs due to the 4130 tubing. Frame was lugged.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Voyager posted by Steve on 12/7/2000 at 5:00:17 PM
I have one of these bikes from 74-75, vey rideable and nice handling as well. Frame is a bit soft but very comvortable. The frame had a tendancy to flex when panniers were loaded. The color is dark blue, not original. Frame a very nice chrome underneath. Brakes were updated to Dura-Ace side pulls. Original bars,stem, bar shifters, hubs, botom bracket and crank set. Would be interested in selling to make space in the garage. Also have mid-70's Bob Jackson road bike. Rims are shot but campy hubs bottom bracket, brakes, etc.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by: Brian L. on 11/30/2000 at 7:20:19 AM
I know that this topic is discussed periodically, but what the heck. Currently I'm working on a 70's(?) Mercier that I got from Art in trade. It's labeled "Velo de Mercier", no head badge, but instead a decal of a cyclist crossing the finish line with raised arms. Beautiful blue color with white lettering. Strange beast (but, hey, its French!), robotic Vitus drop outs spaced at 126, but all of the threading and tube size is contemporary standard. Must have been intended for the US market. I'm building it up with the usual eclectic mix: Suntour barcons (thanks again, Art) and semi-sloping upright cruiser bars installed upside down and carefully relieved to accept the barcons - I've tried authentic mustache bars, but they are almost dead flat and cause wrist pain for me. Beautiful old Tipo hubs laced to unlabeled 27" alloy rims. Suntour Superbe brakes. Haven't finalized changer selection, but crank will end up my standard 175x110/74 50,38,26 with the 13-24 block on the Tipo. Its a mountain-bikey gearing concept, but works well for me.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 12:31:10 PM
I've got a Dawes Atlantis 531c frame waiting to be built into something, not sure what. Fixed gear? 3-speed "club bike"? Use up that late 70s Dura Ace/600 groupo, or even the Campy NR bits I have? But I need a fork for it to fit 700c wheels. How about post these projects and ask for parts -- one of us is bound to have that missing piece another needs.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Brian L. on 11/30/2000 at 8:59:10 PM
The whole swap idea is an excellent one, as I am basically a cheapskate at heart. What steerer length are you looking for, and should it be 700c or 27"? I have a very nice 50's vintage 531 straight gauge fork from a Freddie H. Grubb. This one has the light bracket. Sadly, the frame has had it. I could work a deal for that and a very clean Valentino pair that would look right at home on your Dawes. Interested? I also have a nice chromoly Miyata fork, also 27" if you would like something newer. Anything to swap?

For others of you out there, I have most of a beater mountain bike, a nice 54" Le Jeune with mis-matched fork, the Miyata frame and a decent Le Tour touring frame.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Brian L. on 11/30/2000 at 9:00:45 PM
Oops, Keith, shows you how much I pay attention, you did say 700c wheels.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Keith on 12/1/2000 at 9:12:15 AM
Thanks! I'll measure the stearing tube on the totally shot original Dawes fork. I have a variety of good 70-80s to trade, brakes (NOS Suntour Superbe Pro w/enclosed springs, Universal 68 sidepulls, Mafac Racer, Weinmann, etc.) hubs (Campy HF 36), derailleurs (Campy NR, late 70's Shimano original Dura Ace, 600, plus crummy Simplex, Huret, Sutour, etc.). I always assume most of you already have the same stuff -- but who knows?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Art on 12/1/2000 at 11:01:06 AM
I've got a Monark Crescent frame, a rough and cheap Raleigh Wayfarer, maybe the Voyager, and like the rest of you, assorted parts for trade. I think if someone needs something, no matter how "common" or insignificant they should post it. I need, not to be overly repetitive, a suicide shifter or at best the guts for one--I have a handle, small parts for a steel Grand Sport rear derailleur and 50'vintage rack(s).

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Brian L. on 12/2/2000 at 1:11:12 PM
Keith, can't get your email to work, or you haven't posted one. Let me know what you think would be a fair trade for the fork - I'll include the Freddie head badge if it sweetens the pot, as it sounds like I don't have anything else you need. I'm always looking for good standard reach brakes (like the Mafac), but in particular I have a need for 175x110/74 cranks or any of the following rings to accompany them: 50, 38 or 26.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   winter projects posted by Brian L. on 12/2/2000 at 1:12:57 PM
Keith, also, let me know if you would like to broker an offer on the Pierce Arrow for you. I think that its a 56 or so. Bikesmith's direct # is (206) 632-3102. Ask for Val.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Monthly Rose Bowl Vintage Bike Ride posted by: Chuck Schmidt on 11/29/2000 at 10:52:42 PM
Monthly Rose Bowl Vintage Bike Ride

Starts at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California every FIRST Sunday of
the month. Meet at the pool/picnic area parking lot at the south end of
the park at 10:30am to introduce yourselves and talk bikes. Ride will
start at 11:00am sharp. The ride will be a casual-paced 25 miles long
through Pasadena, South Pasadena, San Marino, Temple City, Arcadia,
Sierra Madre, Altadena, and back to the Rose Bowl for a picnic and more
vintage bike talk. The ride is mostly flat with one moderate climb
(fixed gears are fine in other words). Everyone is encouraged to bring
and ride a 1985 or earlier bicycle, but feel free to ride anything you

Chuck Schmidt
South Pasadena, California
http://www.velo-retro.com (NEW list of reprints and T-shirts)

   thanks for the invitation posted by John E on 11/30/2000 at 6:20:47 AM
Sounds interesting, Chuck. Thanks for the invitation. Please post again to tell us about any outstanding classics (people or bikes) that show up for the ride. I rode with the Los Angeles Wheelmen and Club LaGrange in the early 1970s.

And now for something completely different -- on the last Saturday of every month, the San Diego Recumbent Riders meet at 09:00 at the Mission Bay visitor's center parking lot, for an easy 10:00 Tour de Mission Bay. One does not have to ride a 'bent to participate, and it's a great way to see some of the new technology, while perhaps showing off some old technology, as I generally do.

MISC:   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by: Art on 11/29/2000 at 12:38:47 PM
The Simplex Tour de France rear derailleur was used for a lot of years on a lot of different level bikes. Anyone know when they first came out? What Campy model rear derailleur would have been used alternatively with the Tour de France during the fifties?

   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by John E on 11/29/2000 at 3:33:15 PM
The Gran Sport, introduced in 1951, was the dominant Campy derailleur throughout the 1950s.

Although earlier Simplex "Tour de France" models date back to the late 1920s, the familiar low-normal, plunger-spring piece of junk with the upside-down cage and the control pull-chain came out in 1947, and was used until the late 1950s (plus, of course, on the 1960 Varsinentals).

If I had a nice 1950s bike, I would definitely consider replacing the TdF with a GS, as I did when I scrapped my Benelux TdF clone.

   RE:MISC:   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 6:25:57 AM
If you're thinking about a Campy GS on your Wastyn Paramount, I think it would be a really good move, especially if you're going to ride it.

   RE:MISC:   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by Art on 11/30/2000 at 10:49:41 AM
Actually, Keith (and John), I was thinking along those lines. The Paramount is such a smooth ride and the TdeF is so noisy, I was thinking of trying something else. The GS would be correct timewise. And since the bike was originally built up from the frame at a local bike store, it could have had a Campy GS. The thing I don't know about is the rear hub is a Bayliss-Wylie (Eng) and rear rim is Dunlop (Eng). I have a correct and matching front hub and rim. The cluster on the rear hub is a three speed, and the downtube shifter is the old style Simplex single lever. If I go to a GS should I keep it a 3 speed? If I go to a 5 speed, will the cluster swap out easily? I've never seen a single lever Campy shifter. Any thoughts, boys?

   RE:RE:MISC:   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by peter on 11/30/2000 at 11:33:46 AM
You have missed a bargain today Art. A 1955 Gran Sport has sold on eBay for $152-50 !

   RE:MISC:   SIMPLEX TOUR DE FRANCE posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 12:23:20 PM
About 30 years ago a friend showed me a right-hand-only Campy shifter he was using for a time trial bike. I've bever seen one since. The correct era Campy downtube shifters pictured in -- (where else?) the Dancing Chain at p. 156 are doubles, presumably to be used with the Sport push rod front derailleur. BUT, how about a single Campy barcon? I don't know the year but barcons were introduced pretty early, and even show up in pics of the European peloton from the mid-50s. I've also seen at least one pic of an old touring bike with a single barcon shifter.

   single Campy downtube shifter clamp posted by John E on 11/30/2000 at 7:36:10 PM
1) I saw a single Campy downtube clamp/shifter on eBay last month. You could use a standard double clamp temporarily while looking for a single, or just keep your Simplex shifter with the Campy derailleur.
2) I think a 4-speed cogset, say, 14-16-18-20, would be nice. If you have 120mm between the rear dropouts, you can even go to 5 speeds, which did exist in the 1950s.
3) I forgot whether you have a suicide shifter mounting bracket on your frame. There is a 1961 Schwinn Supercontinental on eBay, which I suppose you could use as a transplant donor, since it already has a Huret Allvit rear derailleur and the suicide shifter really struggles with the triple chainring set.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

MISC:    posted by: Keith on 11/29/2000 at 10:55:46 AM
A friend of mine just gave me a set of wheels, 36H Weinmann Concave 27" laced to Campy Record high flange (5-speed spacing). Do any of you know how far back the Concave rims go? Also, I've read they are strong -- any experience out there to verify that?

   RE:MISC:    posted by Art on 11/29/2000 at 12:38:29 PM
I've had the same questions, Keith. I'd also like to know what bikes they originally came on.

   RE:Weinmann Concave Rims posted by Ed on 11/29/2000 at 1:37:49 PM
I've found Weinmann concave rims to be very strong. I built up a pair for my commuter bike, basic 3x w/straight 14 ga. spokes, and they've been very sturdy. They also built up very nicely, as I recall. I can't recall seeing them before the late 70's, but I think they were one of the earlier high-quality clincher rims. I also can't recall whether there were different varieties, i.e., eyeleted vs. non-eyeleted, different alloys. All I can remember about mine (which I built up in 1991) is that they are silver. I'll have to take a closer look. So far so good as far as durability goes, and I'm a heavy fellow.

   RE:RE:Weinmann Concave Rims posted by Brian L. on 11/29/2000 at 5:09:14 PM
I have a nice pair of these rims laced to HF Normandy milled, sealed bearing hubs. Nice units and seemingly bombproof. Fortunately you can still get a few decent 27" tires. Wonder how long that will last?

   27" tyres posted by John E on 11/29/2000 at 8:26:31 PM
You raise an interesting and important question, Brian. Here in San Diego, I find that cheap (in both senses of the word) 27 x 1-1/4" tyres are plentiful (at sporting goods stores), decent 27 x 1-1/8" are available, and 27 x 1" are scarce. My local Schwinn shop continues to be the best source for 27-inchers, including 27 x 1-3/8" cyclocross knobbies. I still have more 27" than 700C rims, but I am gradually going 100% metric (and Presta).

   RE:MISC:    posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 6:23:48 AM
Thanks for the info. -- the rims on the wheels my friend gave me are non-eyeleted, but he gave me an extra rim that has eyelets. My P-15 Paramount came with a similar set of wheels, and those Weinmann Concaves have eyelets. It's a '76, but I have not checked catalogs and don't know whether they are original. I too have been shifting toward 700c. I agree there are still good 27" tires out there (for how long?), but you can't beat the quality and selection of the best of the 700c. Your testimonials about strength will help me decide how to use the wheels. Thanks!! Any info. on dates?

   RE:MISC:    posted by Scott on 11/30/2000 at 2:10:37 PM
I have a pair of these rims that came on my Bob Jackson when I bought it new in 1978. The are labeled 700 X 25C and have eyelets, 36 hole. I have them laced to Phil Wood hubs, 4 cross. They are great!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nuthin' special posted by: Brian L. on 11/29/2000 at 8:03:44 AM
Rode the Legnano in to work today. Hadn't ridden it in a bit as I wanted to reduce the gearing a tad. Dark and wet - there's a surprise. One thing I really like about these well crafted steel bikes (as I'm sure all of you can attest) is their neutral handling and ability to deal with nasty road conditions. Heresy some might say to ride a Legnano in the dark and wet, and yet that's what many have done during a typical randoneur. Personally, I enjoy having a nice bike to ride year around. I'm sure that Fausto would approve.

No rain gear for me - too hot and claustrophobic on anything but a short, flat hop. I scotch-guard my wool-blend winter gear and stay reasonably dry and comfortable, much better than clammy/clinging rain gear.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nuthin' special posted by Keith on 11/29/2000 at 11:01:06 AM
Yes to the handling qualities of good steel -- it lets you feel the road enough to really control it, while still being pretty comfortable. And yes to riding your Legnano in the cold and dark. But if it picks up salt, be nice to it and give it a bath and some wax, please.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nuthin' special posted by Ed on 11/29/2000 at 1:49:20 PM
I don't know why I never tried Scotchgarding my wool stuff. I've used it on nylon, but it makes me clammy. I generate plenty of heat, I just want insulation that won't get waterlogged. As to the handling, what I like is the fairly long wheelbase and generous fork rake, which I assume any bike as old as your Legnano has. My commuter bike is an old straight-gauge carbon steel Motobecane Super Mirage that weighs a ton and barely vibrates when you ping the top tube with your fingernail, but the geometry is long and the BB is low so it's very forgiving and reassuring out on the potholes.

   tyre size posted by John E on 11/29/2000 at 3:40:45 PM
Maybe I'm getting old and chicken, but my Italian stallion with the 23mm tyres hangs in the garage when it is dark and/or wet outside. Under such conditions, I feel far more confident on my 1960 touring bike with its 27 x 1-1/4 (32mm) tyres (and mudguards) or my mountain bike.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nuthin' special posted by Brian L. on 11/29/2000 at 5:07:39 PM
No fears re: salt - it's Seattle after all. I keep a rag at work and wipe it down when I park it(under cover in the garage). A thorough rub down awaits it at home. Just because I ride it(them) hard doesn't mean I put it(them) away wet. Chains are lubed and cleaned regularly and brakes/headsets/tires are checked prior to riding. I do like the suggestion in another thread about hanging them up on the lowest derailleur tension setting.

The Legnano sports a 32 in the rear and 28 front, just 'cause I couldn't get a 32 to fit up under the fender. I have to deflate the rear to get the tire past the brakes and chainstay bridge.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nuthin' special posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 6:38:24 AM
The latest VeloNews has a stirring eulogy to Gino Bartoli on the last page. It has a drawing of him -- he's wearing a Legnano jersey, and presumably was riding a Legnano bike. (Bartoli won the 1948 Tour de France on a Legnano with a Campy Corsa.)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info on Takara 10 speeds posted by: Robert on 11/29/2000 at 6:02:34 AM
In the last few months I have picked up a couple of Takara
10 speeds. The first was a basic utility 10 speed. The one that I got over the holidays seems to be a good quality bike. Lots of alloy components (rims, bars, seat post, ect).
Fairly light. Overall nice bike. Anyone have any info on them?