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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® posted by: Peter Reich on 9/1/2000 at 4:48:32 AM
Please advise if you are a source for a mint to good Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® ; 70's ; 26" frame desired. Genuinely interested in sources and advise.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® posted by Keith on 9/1/2000 at 5:20:23 AM
There have been a couple of 25" 70s Paramounts on Ebay recently, but I think these auctions ended. Paramounts show up on Ebay resularly. Check the seller's record, and ask lots of questions -- make sure you inquire about the interior of the frame -- is there rust? If so, reject the bike. Bicycle Trader, Cycles de Oro seller page, Campy Only classifieds, recycledcycles.net, and recycledcycles.com are other possible sources. Good luck!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® posted by Keith on 9/1/2000 at 6:41:40 AM
P.S. There's a decent looking 25" frame on Ebay now.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® posted by John on 9/11/2000 at 7:01:48 PM
I have a 1971 Sports Tourer, picked up at a flea market about a year ago. There is a Schwinn-dedicated site (sorry, can't remember the name) where my inquiries about this bike received lots of response. Mine is 22.5" and completely original but only good condition because of paint scratches. I was told ST's were made at Paramount factory and second only to Paramount in Schwinn heirarchy. Seamless chro-mo filet brazed frame construction. I found a photo (p92) and specs in a book by Sloan found easily at used book stores.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® posted by Peter Reich on 9/15/2000 at 7:46:25 PM
Are you interested in selling the Sports Tourer ? Thanks for responding....

WANTED:   Schwinn Sports Tourer® and/or Paramount® posted by: Peter Reich on 9/1/2000 at 4:44:38 AM
Please advise if you are a source for a mint to good Schwinn Sports Tourer® or Paramount® ; 70's ; 26" frame desired. Genuinely interested in sources and advise.

AGE / VALUE:   Triples for reto-geeks posted by: Brian L. on 8/31/2000 at 7:20:57 PM
I have a variety of triples rear changers of the vintage variety: (2) NR w/ Rally cage plates, one good, one VG. (1)Rally, VG. (1) long-cage Simplex L.J. w/ Peugeot label. Front triples changers, both Simplex, one good, one fair/good. I also have a set-1/2 of Valentino I'll practically give away and some other Simplex shifty stuff. Email or post interest. Prices reasonable + postage.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Triples for reto-geeks posted by Brian L. on 8/31/2000 at 7:55:15 PM
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention that I would be interested in trading for good, decent parts. Among other odds and end I am looking specifically for the following: Suntour ratchet bar-cons, Cinelli or Nitto 42 deep - medium drop bars, San Marco Rolls saddle, blark or brown.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Triples for reto-geeks posted by Brian L. on 8/31/2000 at 8:10:06 PM
This was not organized very well. Under the "triples" category, I also have a Huret Duopar, fair. In addition, I have a VG set of NR 170 cranks w/ 52/42 rings.

Under the category of things I would like to trade for: 175 x 110/74 XT, Sugino, XC-Pro or similar, mid-80's vintage triple cranks. I am also looking for first generation Suntour Cyclone or XC-Pro rear Derailleurs, and a Shimano or Suntour triple front with the cable stop.

For you local Seattle readers, I have a 55ish Raliegh Super Course, very pretty in green with gold pin-striping and half-chrome w/ headset that I wouldn't mind swapping for parts or perhaps for a decent frame of French or Italian vintage.

AGE / VALUE:   Simonato Info, Please posted by: Tom Adams on 8/31/2000 at 2:02:04 PM
I have a new/old bike I know nothing about, so I turn to the power of the group collective mind for help. The brand is Simonato, as in Oscar Simonato, made in Trevisio Italia. Got the bike from Cyclart mainly for the parts. Before it shipped Jim powdercoated it "Italian Racing Jersey Blue" and the results are spectacular. The color is almost, but not quite Gios Cobalt. The lugs are classic long point italian style with nifty cutouts and very clean edges. The parts have already mostly gone to other bikes and I'm slowly putting the bike together with new sealed stuff to make a "rain bike".

The oddest thing is that the frame is Reynolds 531DB. The seatpost is 26.8. Naturally Jim always tells the truth but I was surprised to see the Reynolds decal when I unpacked it. BB is italian, dropouts are short Campy's (I presume because the powder coat filled in any drop out lettering). I hadn't heard of Italian Builders using Reynolds before, except for some misty dim rumor concerning Masi. Did any other italian builders use Reynolds?

Has anyone ever heard of a Simonato bike or Oscar Simonato? Can anyone provide any background? Much thanks.

Tom Adams

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simonato Info, Please posted by Chris on 8/31/2000 at 5:42:16 PM
Arwe you saying that Cyclart did not know the answer to your question. With minds like a computer, I would be surprised if he did not know.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simonato Info, Please posted by Tom Adams on 8/31/2000 at 6:36:51 PM
I was mainly dealing with Adrian at Cyclart so I don't know what Jim knows (or when he knew it). Besides its more fun to get info in a public forum.

Tom Adams

MISC:   Brake hood covers posted by: Oscar on 8/31/2000 at 8:04:37 AM
Did Mafac brake levers (the boxy aluminum ones that came with the Racer center-pull brakes) ever have hood covers. All that I've seen had none. I would like to put some hood cover on my set. Would any other type fit (Weinmann, Dia-Compe?) Has anyone tried this? Thanks.

   RE:MISC:   Brake hood covers posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 8/31/2000 at 8:59:05 AM
Yes, these did have white plastic hoods. Plastic and not a gum type rubber hood. I go thru heck to peal these off and then I polish up the levers. Here you are wanting to do the opposite. I have no plastic hoods on hand and I don't know if something else could fit. I will keep an eye out for a plastic hooded set for you.

   RE:MISC:   Brake hood covers posted by Keith on 8/31/2000 at 10:27:58 AM
I've seen two kinds, both white rubber: one kind is a full cover (my Gitane nterclub came with these), the other just covers the top.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Brake hood covers posted by Brian L. on 8/31/2000 at 2:09:11 PM
I have examples of partial white rubber hoods and full black rubber hoods. Also black lever covers. I have never seen full white rubber hoods. www.renaissance-cycles.com has levers for sale as well as full brakesets in partial white, full black and full gum.

FOR SALE:   Bicycle Classics posted by: Keith on 8/30/2000 at 1:11:39 PM
Bicycle Classics is liquidating. I never bought a thing from them, but always liked their site. Some good deals there right now. But in the long term, woe to us -- we've lost another standard bearer!

   RE:FOR SALE:   Bicycle Classics posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 8/30/2000 at 2:05:15 PM
Oh, no! This is bad, very bad. They go back ahwile and have done a lot of good. I am going to really miss them. Thanks for telling us.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Bicycle Classics posted by Oscar on 8/31/2000 at 8:10:50 AM
They are having a heck of a blow out. I've bought from the place, and wish they could stay around. No offense, though, but I'm going to ignore the blow out and buy from those struggling places who want to stay in business (one or two come to mind).

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by: Keith on 8/30/2000 at 9:03:34 AM
I really admire Grant Peterson and Rivendell. I'd love a real Rivendell, but given my modest income and that I have two young children, I cannot justify 1,700 for a frame, beautiful and perfect though it is. So, I'm considering both Heron and Waterford. Here's my dilemma: I think about the cost of a Heron or Waterford -- complete bike will probably be $1,700-$2000. Now, I'm willing to concede that the new steel frames are better than the 70s stuff -- heck, those cool Nervex lugs we lust for are stamped steel! Cast lugs? What are those? But then I look around and see lots of used 80s touring machines -- with longish wheelbases and good clearance, say an 80s Trek with a silver-brazed 531 frame and investment cast lugs and bottom bracket. I could probably get a good used "retro-grouch" bike for close to or even under $500. Add a Brooks saddle, bar cons, new cloth tape, and maybe a long quill stem, and you've got the basic Rivendell package, albeit on a less beautiful frame. I'm itching to order a Heron -- talk me out of it if you think I'm just as well off with something older and used!!!

   blame my Scottish genes ... posted by John E on 8/30/2000 at 12:48:56 PM
Keith, I always enjoy reading your postings.

I admire expensive, beautiful bicycles as much as anyone
else in this discussion group, but I derive far more
satisfaction from resurrecting, improving (sorry, purists!),
and using a fine (or merely decent) older bicycle than I
would from purchasing a flashy new one. Since I cycle for
transportation as well as for recreation and have no
pretenses about any talent for racing, I also like the
freedom of having older, less valuable bikes that I can lock
up without feeling paranoid about theft and use freely
without crying over every new scratch in the paint. True to
my Scots heritage, I always look for value, i.e., quality
per unit price, and nothing delivers value like an old-but-
good bicycle.

My bottom line is that I do not think I can derive five
times the enjoyment from a new $2000 machine as from a $400
used bike. (Also, don't forget that you and I have both
stated that we prefer the old friction or ratchet shift
systems over indexing!)

All the best,

John E, proud descendent of clans Chisholm, MacIntosh, MacDonald, MacPherson, ...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Keith on 8/30/2000 at 1:11:23 PM
John -- I feel likewise about your postings and responses. Your focus on value is exactly my sticking point. And you're right -- if I had a $3000 Rivendell, I'd be afraid to let it out of my sight! Maybe even to ride it (I felt a little like that with the Trek 5200 I had). I may feel the same toward a $2000 Heron or Waterford -- the pride I'd have in a nice new bike would be offset a little by the fear of scratching or denting it. Plus -- if I got a Heron, I'd equip it with the NOS retro stuff Rivendell sells. Great stuff. Worth every penny! But I find (and and sometimes strip) this stuff off old used bikes for a lot less. I'd still like to hear from others too. Any Heron or Waterford owners out there who'd steer me the other way?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 8/30/2000 at 2:12:57 PM
I think the Rivendell is the way to go. I have yet to hear from anyone who has bad things to say about the bikes from them. Last guy I mentioned Rivendell to, he said he had sold his and regretted doing so.
He missed it. Plus a Rivendell is made to your measure.
Last thing I heard, they were not taking any new bicycle orders and things were shakey, with them asking for orders to get out of a tight spot. I hope they have pulled through or will pull through this. I hope they are around in the future, because one day I am going to get one made for me.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Oscar on 8/30/2000 at 2:39:00 PM
Buying the Rivendell is like stepping up to the plate and smacking the ball right out of the park. You'd be buying the best bike made anywhere ever. (Bold statement from a guy who's never seen a real live one, but you gotta buy into it after reading years of Riv catalogues.)

I'd think a Heron or Atlantis would be just as nice. You might have a great bike from the 60's, 70's, and 80's, but where is your example of the best bike made now?

I can't afford any of these, but someday...

   real live Rivendell posted by John E on 8/30/2000 at 4:24:30 PM
I saw a real live Rivendell about two months ago. It had an
impeccable British racing green paint job with ornate gold
graphics. The owner had ordered it for a 126mm rear axle and
had loaded it up with high-grade retro components, including
a Brooks saddle. The frame geometry looked very traditional
and very sensible for the average commuting or touring
cyclist. I spent the entire commuter train ride home talking
to the very satisfied/proud owner.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Tom Adams on 8/30/2000 at 9:17:40 PM
Well, I see both sides of this issue. I'm currently putting a PX 10 back on the road with mild updates. My current infatuation is a '73 Mink & Silver Raleigh Pro, which has sublime ride quality and keeps me occupied haunting eBay and retro sights trying to track down the last few campy bits to make it original (need clamp-on NR levers, seatpost and headset! Found the 175 mm cranks and I'm praying they don't break.)

But if someone called me for a mystery century over unknown roads or conditions, I would reach for old reliable, my custom Marinoni, purchased in '80 and ridden to Hell and back (Hotter than Hell century in SW Michigan, that is. There really is a Hell Michigan.) I've basically kept it stock Campy SR except for Chorus Cranks (it was a tough call on which bike would get the 175's but the Marinoni is "more modern" than the Raleigh) and Gran Compe brakes (the campys went on the Raleigh). It has a fairly relaxed geometry and has done loaded touring in the past. It's set up now for fast touring, , sprints well, and has carried me on the quad century routes of DALMAC, where the only thing that hurt was my knees, not my butt, hands or neck. It just fits me like an old shoe. I'm saving up to get it repainted this winter. Cost me over $1,000 back when, and it's been tremendous.

Now would you get that from a Heron? The road Herons mimic my bike's geometry pretty closely, but what really matters is how well it fits YOU!

Then there's the component issues. For example I've put a replacement fork on the Peugeot to avoid french stem and bar issues. But now the front takes a short reach brake while the rear needs a standard. With a Heron, you know the modern stuff will fit and be available.

I suppose what it comes down to is what is it worth TO YOU to have a bike in the 98th percentile of workmanship (Rivendells would be the last 2%), where aficiniados will come over and admire it, the sumptous paint, pretty lugs and solid componentry. I loved it when the Marinonni was new, but then I'm a shallow person. Now the Marinonni is old, and only a small majority recognize it's pedigree. But their compliments mean more to me now because so few appreciate lugged bikes. I recently had a ride leader ask me what my Raleigh was made of and I said 531. She asked it that was titanium?!?!

Buy the Heron if you want a work of art and intend to keep this bike for 10+ years. The cost per mile isn't that much. Then its all yours and all the scratches will tell you a story. But it's equally noble to save old bikes from a dishonored dotage, and put them back on the road. What will give you the most satisfaction?

Tom Adams

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by keith on 8/31/2000 at 6:43:33 AM
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I've seen one Rivendell up close and the lug were flawless works of art. The Heron has plain lugs but hey, it combines two great lines of heritage -- the Schwinn-Waterford, and Grant Peterson-Rivendell. BTW, the Rivendell site indicates that people really came through and they are out of their slump -- but now the waiting period for a real Rivendell is 2-3 years. I've even thought I'd go ahead and put the $300 down and order the ultimate, and by the time it's ready I'd have saved the balance. If I got one I'd probably want to hang it on a wall and just look at it more than ride it. HMMMM -- a Rivendell for display and a Heron to ride? Can't afford that. Or can I? No. Darn!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Art on 8/31/2000 at 8:12:46 AM
I like Brian's take on this in a post below under a different heading. It is something I think a lot about. I have lusted after certain bikes--high end bikes that stretch me a bit financially--I've kept looking at them, negotiating about the purchase in my head. I'll make the decision to buy it and feel that wonderful sense of elation that I have made this bike mine. And it works....usually...for a while. The bike will either work out for me in the long run or it won't, but regardless I'm not content. I'll see some junker somewhere with a frame line or part or paint job turns my head and then I want that bike. I look at it, negotiate in my head about it....I'm doing the same thing over a $15 bike that I did over a $1500 bike. And if i get the $15 bike, I can feel as good for a while as I did for the better bike. And then it starts again. Obviously, there is a difference between a $1500 and a $15 dollar bike. But I can't delineate the same difference between how I feel about the hunt, the discovery, and the acquisition of the two bikes. This is my frustration as a lover and collector of bikes. I've thought a lot about Rivendell's bikes...I've wanted a fully outfitted All Rounder(among other things) for a long time. I could afford one if I wouldn't buy anything else for a while....but then I'm at a yard sale and some guy is walking me back to his garage to show me the bike he had in college. And it's full campy Masi that fits me like a glove or its a 1949 track bike and I get paid next week and my Firestones are on recall and I got three hundred people ahead of me so I definately shouldn't drive and I got room in my studio for one more bike and.....you know the rest. Good luck Keith, let us know what you decide.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Keith on 8/31/2000 at 10:40:46 AM
Excellent point, Art. I got a real kick out of putting together a bike-messenger-style one speed with the old Schwinn Voyager frame my neighbor gave me. Rode it to work today! ZOOM. And truth be told, if I don't spend $2000 on a Heron, I'll surely spend that much on several other used bikes over the next couple of years. So I could get an old silver-brazed, cast lug 531 Trek touring bike, outfit it Grant-Peterson style, and still have enough to get an awefully nice Paramount. When she's mad at me my wife calls it an addiction. But right now she's okay with me getting a long-distance rider. I'll keep you posted.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Brian L. on 8/31/2000 at 7:19:33 PM
O.K. Let's call this thing by its true name. It is an addiction, however benign and full of history. I amuse myself at lunch hour reading this website and scanning ebay for things I can't afford. I have bikes I don't ride and junk heaps waiting for the next set of scrounged parts. I lust for Rivendell and hope to have one some day, or a cherry Speciale Corsa, even though I have a bitchin' Mercian and Marinoni and a variety of pretty and satisfying lesser pedigrees. What is the special essence that sets the hook in? Keith, Christopher Robin, et al, its basically the same set of contributors, what is the insight of the collective (you all know who you are, and seem more literate than most)? My proposition is that, like fine wine or Ferrari's hand-crafted bikes are like works of art and mysteries waiting to be uncovered. Each tells a story and the act of assembling and riding them brings us closer to our heros, the Coppis and Bartalis of myth. For myself, they also offer freedom, however fleeting from the lesser realities of work and urban living. I'm flying, I'm floating, I'm moving through some other medium than the air that mere mortals breath.

Is that freaky?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Keith on 9/1/2000 at 6:56:15 AM
Yes! Downright weird! And we seem so much alike -- garages full of parts and frames from the 70s and 80s -- stuff only a few other people would ever want or see value in -- most would throw it away (that's how we got it). If I got a Rivendell or Heron tomorrow, no matter how satisfactory it was, I'd find something else I'd want at some point, a mint Paramount or Raleigh Pro. And if I got that, I'd still have bikes I'd long for but will never have -- a fancy Hetchins, and new Richard Sachs, and on and on. We have similar habits, I'll wager -- lurking at garage sales, turning our heads if we see just the edge of a wheel set by someone's trash or by a dumpster. I love bicycling, but I also love bicycles. Among the noblest of inventions -- clean, efficient, health-giving, rich in history. But what an odd passion! Most people's eyes glaze over if presented with the fine points we love to discuss at length. And I'll bet most of you will go along with this too -- I make no apologies whatsoever for this obsession.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   I REALLY NEED ADVICE posted by Art on 9/1/2000 at 7:29:13 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with you gentlemen. I got on an old Ivers Johnson truss bridge several years ago and riding it, I realized someone 75 years earlier had had the same experience. Given the importance of bikes in our youths, it seems natural to me now to still be infatuated with them. I started serious collecting pressed steel trucks from the 20's and 30's, but the prices got so outrageous, the trucks so scarce that the hobby wasn't fun anymore. But bikes! Bikes were everywhere, and I could ride them, and repair them, and like you said Keith, they often come to us for free or next to nothing. That's one of the joys of bikes for me today. While, there exist those bikes we long for and may never be able to afford, there is still a whole lot of interesting stuff still out there. My wife and I have an arrangement. She never asks what I spend for a bike and I never ask her how much her shoes or purses cost. And she can drop some serious coin on a handbag! And if I drag home some weird girl's bike, I always tell her it's a present for her. She never rides the stuff and a few days later when I ask her if she minds if I cannibalize 'her' bike for parts she always consents. An addiction...sure. A topic I have some personal knowledge about. But it's benign and it's good to know you guys are out there indulging it to the max. Happy hunting.

   a multidimensional passion posted by John E on 9/1/2000 at 2:07:39 PM
While collecting, restoring, and using old bicycles, I engage in
a hobby/sport which simultaneously addresses my passions for:
1) my family; 2) the environment; 3) health and fitness;
4) mechanical tinkering; 5) economical transportation; 6) fun;
7) aesthetics; 8) camaraderie; 9) political activism; and
10) technological history. Having a bike-tolerant spouse does
indeed help -- my wife actually suggested that I should feel
free to bid on that $500 E-bay sample of Peugeot history.

   RE:a multidimensional passion posted by Keith on 9/3/2000 at 7:16:44 AM

FOR SALE:   Early 80' Shimano 600 Calipers posted by: jim on 8/30/2000 at 9:04:53 AM
Early 80's vintage shimano 600 calipers, excellent condition. Reach is approprate for 700c wheels. Claipers read "Anodized Shimano * 600" $15

MISC:   New Shorts posted by: Oscar on 8/30/2000 at 8:04:01 AM
This is why I like the old stuff.

My lovely wife gave me a pair of new cycling shorts yesterday. These are one of the new ones with a wad of gel sewn into the crotch. It feels squishy. We have a toddler at home who is still in diapers, and I can’t help but correlate the two.

I guess I’m “retro” enough to prefer wool shorts with a real chamois down there, but this was a gift that was given with love and should be received with love. To tell the truth, they didn’t feel bad at all, and squishy is kind of nice. Just when I’m thinking that I’ll never get my son out of diapers

   RE:MISC:   New Shorts posted by Keith on 8/30/2000 at 9:00:39 AM
I remember wool shorts and jerseys -- still have one club jersey in wool, but the shorts went to pieces, even after being patched over the years. I'm consirering ordering a wool pair from Rivendell for my birthday -- is that where you get yours? My son got me a gel saddle pad -- I use it off and on. The squishiness is weird but it actually improves some otherwise unrideable sadddles.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Shorts posted by Brian L. on 8/30/2000 at 1:12:12 PM
I've got to weigh with a recommendation on this one: check out Jackson and Gibbens, absolutely the best bike shorts I've ever owned, and I wouldn't consider another brand for that part of my anatomy. Best part of the deal, absolutely no branding or logo visible, just nice basic black and extremely high comfort and quality. Also, the pair I ordered last year were under $40 plus shipping.

On another note, I also enjoy Keith's musings and information a great deal, and share his desire/lust for a Rivendell, Waterford or Richard Sachs. I have a number of bikes in various states of assembly and quality. Most I found along the side of the road. In truth, its the rescue, salvage and assembly that is perhaps the most fun. They all ride well, and the better riding ones just seem to have better components, with the exception of my '76 Marinoni which just feels "right" for me. On some level, maybe we should never actually purchase our dream bike because it probably could never fulfill all of our expectations.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   New Shorts posted by Oscar on 8/30/2000 at 2:44:10 PM

Great tip. Jackson & Gibbons is at http://www.bicyclerainwear.com/. (Must tell the wife)

AGE / VALUE:   J C HIGGINS 3 SPEED posted by: electricman on 8/29/2000 at 7:46:13 PM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   J C HIGGINS 3 SPEED posted by Keith on 8/30/2000 at 6:06:40 AM
I'd post this on the British Roadster discussion site.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   J C HIGGINS 3 SPEED posted by Keith on 8/30/2000 at 6:08:54 AM
P.S. I've got a '69 Austrian Sears 3-speed. I think it's made by Puch or Daimler or something like that. Pretty common. Quality is okay but not as nice as a Raleigh 3-speed IMHO. Mine was free. Collector value is nil.

   Steyr-Daimler-Puch posted by John E on 8/30/2000 at 7:14:12 AM
In the 1960s, the lighter, better models from Sears,
J.C. Penny, and other retailers and bike manufacturers were
rebranded Steyr-Daimler-Puch offerings, from Graz, Austria.
In the early 1980s, the same company produced its best
bikes, under the AustroDaimler label, and they now assemble
Jeep Cherokees for the European market. S-D-P is sort of the
Peugeot of Austria -- decent, mass-produced, and seldom
collectible. (However, the very rare, near-pristine c. 1955
Peugeot Randonneur that Keith found on Ebay just got a $500

   RE:Steyr-Daimler-Puch posted by Aldo Ross on 8/31/2000 at 6:59:37 AM
Steyr-Daimler-Puch currently produces Mercedes G-Class (off-road), Jeep Grand Cherokee, Mercedes E-Class four-wheel drive models, and Mercedes M-Class SUVs.

   Steyr-Daimler-Puch posted by John E on 8/31/2000 at 7:13:00 AM
Does S-D-P still produce bicycles, or has the Far East
killed off that portion of their business?

AGE / VALUE:   Gee, I don't know what to do with it..... posted by: ChristopherRobin on 8/29/2000 at 5:19:35 PM
I want to heave this out but can't because I do not know anything about this particular make . Please help. This is a "LeJunet" A girls/ ladies mixte frame made in France olympic ring foil decals, semi ornate lugwork chrome ends, pencil stays, purple in color universal steel chrome chainring with a 40/ 52 set of rings Simplex plastic deraileur, Mafac Racer(common Mafacs) brakes. Nothing special or is it?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gee, I don't know what to do with it..... posted by Tom Faust on 8/29/2000 at 9:09:19 PM
Chris. The leading french bike of the 70's was the Jenet (I hope I have my spelling right). In the 70's a lot of french bikes tried to rip off the name. I have a Genet in my collection, a nice bike equiped similarly to yours. However, it is nothing special. Check Sheldon's value guide, I ma be off on my spelling and you may have the real thing.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gee, I don't know what to do with it..... posted by Keith on 8/30/2000 at 6:20:35 AM
Nice to see you cross over to the lightweight page once in a while. I say this too often, I know -- I had a La Juenet (Sp?) -- someone gave it to me at a garage sale late in the afternoon when he was about to give up. The frame was huge, and the paint was shot, so (gulp) did my strip and pitch thing with it. (I keep the nice parts in hopes of using them on a nicer, better fitting frame at some point, and so the boxes of parts overflow.) BTW I concur with Tom. If it's in really nice shape then clean and overhaul it and find it a good home. Don't sink money into it. Someone should correct me if I'm off, but low-end plain steel 70s lightweights may be interesting relics from the 70s bike boom, but will not be deemed collectable in our lifetime.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gee, I don't know what to do with it..... posted by Art on 8/30/2000 at 7:17:59 AM
cyclesdeoro has info on the French bike LeJEUNE which may be the bikes you're talking about. They have pictures of them. They also mention a Juenet which they haven't posted pictures of yet.

   LeJuene posted by John E on 8/30/2000 at 12:55:03 PM
When I worked at Bikecology (Supergo) in the early 1970s,
we sold one LeJuene model, a Peugeot PX-10 wanna-be with
TA 3-bolt alloy cranks and a Reynolds 531 frame. They were
decent enough, but unexceptional.

   spell check: LeJeune posted by John E on 8/30/2000 at 1:07:22 PM
Oops, "LeJeune," meaning "The Young," is the correct
spelling. The company apparently attacked both the $250 and
$400 (1972 dollars) markets by offering the same frame with
either French or Campy components.

   RE:spell check: LeJeune posted by ChristopherRobin on 8/30/2000 at 2:16:32 PM
I was wrong, I am so sorry this is a "Jeunet" and has a foil decal for a badge and it has a picture of a smilimg sun by the name. Thanks for all the help.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Joel's Super Course posted by: Keith on 8/28/2000 at 6:36:46 AM
Over the weekend while fishing with my family I met Joel and his friend, Randy. They had had perhaps a bit too much beer, and were cursing and grumbling at each other. They had ridden nice old lightweights, and I asked them about them. Joel suddenly became a different person -- he became very positive and animated -- he loves bicycles. He said was a Cat 3 racer in the 80s when he lived in California while in the service. He told me he owns several top-end bikes, including a custom Guercotti. He grew up in Columbus Ohio, and we even knew some of the same people. We talked bikes for over an hour -- Campagnolo, Columbus and Reynolds tubing, different brands, rides we'd been on, races we'd been in. Toward the end of our conversation, he mentioned a Raleigh Super Course frame he had. I offered to buy it, but he insisted on giving it to me. The next day, I visited his campsight, and there was the Super Course, leaning against a tree. Early 70s, Coffee brown, Nervex lugs, 531 main tubes, etc. His Guerciotti was there too, along with five or six other vintage bikes. Joel and Randy are homeless. They stay at state parks because they can camp free because they are both veterans. Joel fought in Granada, and his campmate Randy fought in Vietnam. Here's a man who has almost nothing, but he's held onto his love of bicycles and bicycling. For whatever reason, maybe as a matter of pride, he steadfastly refused to take anything in return for the frame. I humbly accepted his gift.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Joel's Super Course posted by Oscar on 8/28/2000 at 11:53:15 AM
I'm not sure that I believe in Karma, but there's definately something right with that.

AGE / VALUE:   regarding old capo posted by: john w on 8/27/2000 at 6:23:36 PM
I bought an old capo at a nearby garage sale. The bike has the following components: super champion competition 27" rims, miche competition hubs, derailleurs shimano 600, shift levers campagnolo, cable guides campagnolo,brakes universal 68 front and 61 rear, crankset stronglight,chainrings stronglight, pedals atom +40, quick releases cycle pro, stem ambrosia, seat post birmalux, and finally, I bought the bike because I liked the Roman? soldier on the seat tube, nickel plated. One final note, the name plate is a cursive nickel plated CAPO. The bike really looks neat and weighs 23/24 pounds. Thanks for any comments or priceing.

   Capo posted by John E on 8/28/2000 at 8:22:04 AM
Dear John (you and I get alot of those letters, I guess),

I have owned two Capos and have seen only one other. I have
just sent an email to an Austrian gentleman who may be able
to provide more information, which I will post on this site.

I do not think any of the equipment you have listed, except
the stem and possibly the brakes and crankset, is original,
but I could be wrong. Both of my Capos came with the old
Campy Gran sport derailleurs, suggesting an early 1960s
vintage. Stock hubs were Campy Record high-flange, and the
brakes are old-style Weinmann centerpulls. The frame is at
least partially d.b. Reynolds 531, and the original forks
have a Cinelli-style sloping crown. A friend in the bike
business told me that Capo was the top of the Steyr-Puch

Unfortunately, the first owners of both of my Capos had let
the chrome plating on the lugs, forks, and stays deteriorate
and had ended up painting over everything with Rustoleum. At
least they didn't mess up those great "retro" 1950s-style
scripted head badges!

For those readers (probably almost everybody!) unfamiliar
with Capos, they have ornate carved lugs and dropouts, old-
fashioned pencil-thin stays, a long touring wheelbase,
impeccable workmanship, and a unique integral seat tube

Be sure to maintain that bottom bracket, as Swiss-threaded
BB cups are getting scarce, although I think Sheldon still
has Swiss-threaded Phil Wood cartridges.

Enjoy the ride! It's no sprinter or climber, and it's pretty
squirrelly with a loaded rear rack, but it's an incredibly
smooth, comfortable bike for long distance cruising.

   RE:Capo posted by john w. on 8/28/2000 at 5:29:42 PM
Hi John,
Thanks for your reply. All of your info is great. I have a few more details on my capo for you. My frame number is 42590, the frame is 54/55cm from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the top tube, the wheel base is 41in. from axel to axel. My forks have 4 crescent steps on each shoulder sloping down. I don,t see any chrome on the dropouts although if I scrape through the new paint it may be there. There does seem to be some flecks of chrome on the seat stays where the paint is chipped. There is another interesting accessory which appears to be a tire cleaning scraper. The scrapers are attached to the mounting bolts for the front and rear brakes. They are made of light gague steel wire with plastic tubing over the wire except where the scrapers rub the tires.

I have a question about the freewheel. Is there a pawl or pawls that might stick in the freewheel position after a long storage? My bike acts as if the pawls don't fully engage, that is to say that when pressure is applied to the pedals in the forward direction the rear wheel starts to turn then the freewheel slips. I don't know if this applies to your capos since mine has a Miche rear hub and possibly a suntour freewheel and cog set.

Finally, you didn't mention anything about the soldier on the seatpost. The soldier has a staff with banner in his right hand, a sword on his left hip, he's wearing a helmet and breastplate, and some sort of sandal or armor footwear.

It's great to have a discussion group available where we can share our treasures/junk. By the way I paid ten bucks for my bike at a neighborhood garage sale. I have already gotten my moneys worth just investigating this OLDROAD bike. I can hardlly wait for my first test ride.

Thanks for your input.

   Freewheels posted by Oscar on 8/28/2000 at 8:07:51 PM
If your freewheel slips, that's no good. If the internals corrode, the freewheel can get stuck, or slip, or both. (I almost made groinal contact with the top tube thinking a 30 year old Atom freewheel would take an out of the saddle sprint.) You can get a new one in a variety of tooth sizes. It sounds like all you need to get it humming.

   Capo posted by John E on 8/29/2000 at 12:55:05 PM
John, a few more bits of Capo drivel for you:

Tyre scrapers: these were popular add-ons in the early 1970s
Freewheel: replace it now! Sheldon probably can help;
I believe the original gearing was 52-46 (Agrati cottered steel cranks)
/ 14-17-20-23-26 Atom freewheel
I can spare an operable "tooth-accurate" SunTour 5-speed freewheel
in a few weeks, or a 14-17-20-24-28 now, if you are interested.
Personally, I don't feel guilty about putting 7-speed freewheels on old bikes ...
Fork crown: Either we have different models or years, or yours was replaced
Frame size: sounds the same as mine (56cm C-T, a perfect fit for me)
Soldier: ??; mine frames were completely sanded and repainted ...
Decals: Although my two Capos were repainted, the one original Capo I saw had shiny Campagnolo decals
Serial #: sounds similar; I have to check (top of seat tube?)

Enjoy your bit of history!

   RE:Freewheels posted by John W. on 8/29/2000 at 7:45:37 PM
Hi Oscar,
Thanks for the pointers. I have a new shimano freewheel that I was going to put on my Schwin LeTour because I have a Broken tooth on the 14 cog. The Schwin freewheel works fine and I really don't notice the missing tooth affecting how the bike rides. I don't know if the freewheels interchange, but I guess they are all the same except for gearing. I will take the wheel to local bike shop and have the freewheel removed and new one installed.

Thanks again for the help.

   RE:Capo posted by John W on 8/29/2000 at 8:13:54 PM
Hi John,
after reading your latest, it seems that most of the running gear on my bike has been replaced. I think you are right on the forks on mine being replaced because the fork crowns are not at all fancy like all the other lugs. I have a new shimano freewheel that I was going to put on my schwin LeTour, but i will put it on the capo instead. My capo has 42/52 chain rings and 14-17-20-24-28 freewheel cogs. Thanks for the offer of the freewheel.

My capo serial number is on the top left of the seat tube as you are sitting on the bike.

The soldier that is on my bike is about 4in. tall located in the center of the seat tube facing forward. The soldier is fastened to the seat tube with two very small screws just like the capo name on the front. The soldier is nickel or chrome plated. You might check your seat tube to see if there were any holes there originally.

Although my capo has been redone with newer? parts, it still seems a neat OLDROAD bike. I will try and find out if the fella that redid the bike has any of the old parts laying around.

I would like to hear any response to your Austrian Email.

Thanks again for your response.

   RE:RE:Capo posted by Oscar on 8/30/2000 at 7:40:59 AM
Shimano, Suntour, Atom, Regina...all those freewheels should fit on your hub just fine.

The last time I bought a five speed freewheel, the jokester at the bike shop scratched his head and said, "Five speed? I don't think they ever made them." I was stunned for a moment until his sly smile gave his joke away. Very politely, he said that I didn't look old enough to want one. $20 part and a pleasant laugh at the local bike shop.

   Capo -- no little tin soldier posted by John E on 9/2/2000 at 4:09:59 PM
The S/N of my current Capo is 46324, which probably makes it just a bit newer than yours. I believe my first one had a similar S/N, but I scrapped it when the front of the downtube cracked during a climb. (To be fair to S-D-P, the frame had been crumpled and restraightened.) By the way, there is/was no evidence of any badge mounting holes on the seat tube of either frame -- that tin soldier is either a feature they dropped or an aftermarket accessory.

AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by: John Ridley on 8/27/2000 at 6:41:23 AM
I have a Carlton Corsa, light weight tourer/racer and ride it regularly. I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has knowledge of these bicycles. It has a 23.5" frame, is metalic mauve in colour with silver front forks and has the Worksop badge. It has five gears. I would be interested to find a copy of the original catalogue and date the bicycle. Thanks

   Raleigh? posted by John E on 8/27/2000 at 9:06:39 AM
I have heard that Carltons were made by Raleigh and are
generally well-regarded. (I am still trying to convince my
sister-in-law to part with hers!) If you can identify the
original equipment derailleurs, brakes, crankset, etc., one
of our intrepid regulars can probably narrow down the year
of production for you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by Tom Adams on 8/27/2000 at 7:22:07 PM
If I have my facts straight, Carlton existed as a separate entity making high quality bikes and was then bought by Raliegh in the late 60's early 70's. The Carlton factory in Worksop was then used to make the higher quality Raleighs, while the Carltons continued to be made. Thus Carlton/Raleigh generally means one of the higher quality bikes. A non Raleigh Carlton could be very nice, if one of the higher quality bikes. Is the frame made of Reynolds 531 DB? What kind of components?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by Keith on 8/28/2000 at 6:17:49 AM
For what it's worth my understanding is the same as Tom's -- Carlton shop Raleighs had a Carlton decal(s). I have an International with such a decal, as well as an early 70s Super Course with one decal on the seat tube, and one on each side of the forks. The International also has white rubber Carlton brake lever hoods.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by Keith on 8/28/2000 at 11:22:52 AM
Raleigh bought Carlton in 1960, and moved production of its top-end bikes to Worksop.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by Aldo Ross on 8/29/2000 at 9:24:09 AM
Be sure to take a look at the Carlton page on Classic Rendezvous... http://cyclesdeoro.com/Carltonmain.htm

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles, Worksop, England posted by jimbo on 8/30/2000 at 11:05:27 AM
I had a carlton corsa five speed like yours that was completely orginal with a steel cottered crank, huret rear derailer.weinmann brakes and gb stem and bars. It had a beautiful paint and really great badge and decals. It also had bolted on wheels rather than quick release with dropouts that were narrower at the openings. I thought it was probably late sixties early seventies. It was probably made with the same tubing that was used for a raleigh grand prix. It had the the look and feel of a ride in the english countryside. It had retro coolness and good old fashioned hand built quality.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Masi feedback needed posted by: Mike on 8/26/2000 at 11:30:27 PM
I've been perusing some of the discussions on this site, and how I wish I could pool the collective knowledge I've observed. You guys are awesome.
Here's one I could use some info on:
Masi 3V, "Volumetrica." I think it's late 70's or early 80's. This one is an Alberto Masi autographed model, complete with pantographed signature stem, signatures on frame, etc. All Campy SR, light sky blue metallic, all original and mint.
Anybody know vintage? Want to venture on value? Any other interesting thoughts?

   Utah Cycling newsletter posted by John E on 8/27/2000 at 9:02:15 AM
The archives of CycleUtah's Classic Corner column hold
plenty of Italian frame data, and the editor collects
Italian road bikes. Sheldon Brown also has some Masi data.
CycleArt of Vista, CA might also be able to tell you which
years Masis were built in California.

My opinion? You have a great bike, which is a notch more
pristigious than my '82 Bianchi.

   RE:Utah Cycling newsletter posted by Mike on 8/27/2000 at 4:35:57 PM
Thanks for the feedback and info. Much appreciated.