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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Doardo Bianchi, Randoneur posted by: Wings on 9/23/2000 at 12:32:20 AM
Found a good looking blue with gold trim Bianchi.
Downtube Suntour shifters;
Suntour rear derailer, 6 cog freewheel;
3 chainrings on a Tourney crank.
"Magny" tubes.

   bad news ... ? posted by John E on 9/23/2000 at 8:55:07 PM
It sounds like a Japanese-made Bianchi rebrand (see an earlier post in this discussion area). As such, it is a decent rider, but definitely not a collectible. To be sure, look at the bottom bracket. If the cups are English-threaded (1.375" x 24 TPI), it was made in Japan. If they are Italian-threaded, (36mm x 24 TPI), it was made in Italy.

AGE / VALUE:   raleigh grand prix posted by: bob on 9/22/2000 at 11:11:23 PM
I just bought a new looking grand prix at a g-sale for $20 wich included a trainer stand. All of the components are alloy/aluminium. It has a cromoly (huge) lugged frame. The rear derailuer is a suntour ...vgt luxe... front=suntour vx, with suntour power shifters. It has dia compe brakes. Its symbol and name are all over the place (stamped) into the metal at the; fork crown, hubs, droputs, top of seat stays, and cranks. looks like an early eighties. was it worth it.......its in exellent condition.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh grand prix posted by John E on 9/23/2000 at 8:59:39 PM
Sorry, Bob, my response is the same as above. Although Raleigh has used the Grand Prix label on various models over the years, the equipment on yours and my recollection indicate that it is a just-above-lower-end model -- probably a decent rider, but definitely not a collectible.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh grand prix posted by Tom Faust on 9/24/2000 at 7:49:18 PM
Sorry Bob, I have a mixte frame version of the same. Bought it for $5.00. Took it for the Baycliffe bag.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   raleigh grand prix posted by jim on 9/26/2000 at 12:45:31 PM
Wait ! Maybe it's a Carlton frame. Do the seat stays appear to be made from one length of tubing made to become narrow and draped over the top tube just ahead of the seat/top tube lug ? Is the stop for the rear brake an arch made of tiny tubing with a small threaded barrel adjuster ?
If so it's still not a wildly valuable bike but a bit more rare and certainly respectable. Carlton was a frame manufacturer bought by Raleigh, that retained some autonomy.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   fuji royale posted by: nick on 9/22/2000 at 10:48:45 PM
my ol fuji: cromolybdenum frame(now to small). it used to have nitto drops. super shiny alloy dia compe G, quick release brakes. exchange motion deraileuer with some sort of overshift safty mechanism. suntour vx front. sealed BB i believe---(theres a rubber thingy in there). sunshine alloy hubs. suntour GT rear dropouts. smooth ride i know its not rare. paid 5 bucks 5 years ago forgot serial # someone told me it was a '75. (ive seen others with centerpulls; are they older)

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   fuji royale posted by nick on 9/23/2000 at 8:57:11 PM
i forgot to say that the old seat was a rock hard leather one ;it may have been brooks, if they were ever put on fujis. if there were any markings they wore off of the leather. it was probably stupid to throw it away. im not sure

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Maino road racer posted by: Jonathan on 9/22/2000 at 7:19:06 PM
For years I road a 10 sp. road racer (second-hand) built by MAINO. The lug-work is very ornate and the frame is very light for
a bike of '60's vintage (about 25# with full components). One person I talked to said that he knew of a bike builder
of that name near Pavona, It. This guy was from that region and had raced in the amateur ranks a younger guy.
The bike handles beautifully in tight maneuvers and just feels solid. Unfortunately for me, the frame is about 5cm too short
for me, otherwise I'd still be riding it. It is hanging from the rafters; all spiffed and ready to go. I keep it ready to ride more out of sentimental value than anything more serious. When I look up at the "black beauty", I just
wonder..."What IS this bike? How had it evolved? What can be
known about it's maker?" It is a well-crafted and detailed machine...that may be why it is no longer being made...I'm guessing that it is out of production. If anyone knows of the Maino
"builder", I'd be grateful and relieved that I know something about this interesting and beautifully crafted machine.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Maino road racer posted by Brian L. on 9/24/2000 at 5:40:38 PM
Maino was a very old and esteemed builder in Italy that produced a wide range of bikes, including some of the earliest sport bikes, single speeds with 28" rims, semi-drop handlebars and pantographed chainrings that spelled out Maino in the ring pattern, as well as in the pedals. Don't know much more than that, but I do know that they were produced as early as the turn of the century.

Keep it, or sell it to someone who will truly value it. Can you tell us more about it, e.g. components, etc.?

WANTED:   Enquiry Info posted by: Bill Barclay on 9/21/2000 at 1:50:40 PM
My Friend has an old RALIEGH Bicycle with double bar frame,rod brakes,28 inch wheels, B33 saddle, Dynohub and battery pack and It Is beleived to be POLICE bike, the frame is very high.
Can anyone help with Identification and dating of this old machine. Please E-Mail me on amd4100@hotmail.com

   sounds like a Roadster ... posted by John E on 9/21/2000 at 7:43:19 PM
If you have not already done so, please post your message on the roadster portion of this site, although I know of at least one roadster-rider in this group. Nice find!

   RE:WANTED:   Enquiry Info posted by Tom Faust on 9/21/2000 at 7:57:55 PM
From the description given, I would assume that it is a Superbe or DL-1. Assuming that the rear hub is original, the shell should be dated. Near the name Sturmey-Archer (defunct as of 9/16/00) will be a date, the 20th century is assumed, so the date will be only two digits. Normaly the month will also be indicated and precede the year.

AGE / VALUE:   Torpado SL posted by: Blair on 9/19/2000 at 8:31:55 PM
I came across a vintage "celeste" Torpado SL that has been restored with heavily used but funtional Shimano 105's and a Mavic sculpted crank. New tires and tape and overall in mint but no SR group. Any ideas what it's worth? Owner is asking $500.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Torpado SL posted by Brian L. on 9/19/2000 at 9:13:06 PM
Torpados, like so many marques came in a wide range of quality ranges. The primo years seemed to be in the 50's and 60's, with some nice models into the 70's. For that reason, the 105 gruppo seems a little bit of a mis-match, but should certainly perform well. In order to determine value, it would be important to understand condition, on a 1-10 scale, features e.g. lug work and drop outs, and tubeset.

AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by: Oscar on 9/19/2000 at 8:55:41 AM
Collective wail…Brooks is gone…may be reborn but who knows. Read Rivendell’s and Harris Cyclery’s news.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Keith on 9/19/2000 at 9:52:46 AM
I heard Sturmey Archer (the parent) is gone with it -- almost to their 100th year. I just got two B-17s from Rivendell -- I suggest you all get at least one or two from Rivendell, Harris, or wherever, if you are Brooks fans at all.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Oscar on 9/19/2000 at 11:31:16 AM
Rivendell isn't selling them. They are saving all for their bikes. Harris just sold me a B 17.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Keith on 9/19/2000 at 11:47:38 AM
I was extremely lucjy and just got in under the wire -- I had placed my order with Rivedell a couple of weeks ago. I'm definately going to hold one of them in reserve. I can understand why Rivendell would hold onto their remaining stock -- a Rivendell with anything else would be strange. I wonder what other leather is out there. Mainland Chinese and (Eastern) Indian bikes still come with leather saddles, albeit not nearly as nice a Brooks. Someone in Europe has got to still make something nice. Some of the guys on the English Roadster page have successfully put new leather onto old Brooks frames.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Oscar on 9/19/2000 at 1:28:45 PM
I misread Rivendell's page. They are not saving them up but their incoming stock will be wiped out. I'm in under the wire too. More saddles than bikes now.

   tensioned leather and pub[l]ic health posted by John E on 9/19/2000 at 1:46:38 PM
That's bad news ...

For years, everyone happily sat on tensioned leather saddles and wore chamois-lined shorts wool. During the 1970s bike boom, most cyclists changed over to padded vinyl / plastic saddles. A decade or two later, men began to worry about what cycle saddles were doing to their urogenital systems. Hmmm ...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Clyde on 9/19/2000 at 6:53:13 PM
Sad news indeed. So, what's a leather seat guy to do, why run over to a Brooks dealer post haste. I picked up a B-66 at Wallingford Bicycle Parts (www.wallbike.com) TODAY.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Brian L. on 9/19/2000 at 7:11:54 PM
I'm sorry, I'm just not with you guys on this one. I've tried Brooks, Ideale and Wright and I thought that they all hurt like hell. They do look beautiful though, and for that reason alone, I guess that its sad that they're going.

   leather Saddles posted by John E on 9/20/2000 at 6:21:50 AM
The irony of the leather saddle is that it is uncomfortable
when new, but extremely comfortable when broken in (assuming
the cyclist does not get broken in first!). I got my Brooks
Pro from a friend who gave up on it after perhaps 100 miles;
25+ years and almost 50K miles later, I won't part with it
until it breaks down. It's heavy, it creaks, and I have to
cover it in wet weather, but what else would look right on
a 1960 touring bike?

When I bought my Nishiki in 1971, the first of my many
component changes was to replace the padded vinyl saddle
with the 10-year-old Ideale tensioned leather one from my
first Bianchi. Amused, my cycling buddy observed, "all the
discomforts of home."

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by Keith on 9/20/2000 at 9:37:18 AM
For almost any other kind of bike part, there's an acceptable "next best" substitute out there. Not so with the Brooks. I just snagged another two from my local dealer -- a B-17, a B-72 (for 3-speeds), as well as a tin of Proofhide. I'm stopping with that, though -- I'm not going to hoard, or scalp them at ridiculous prices. But I want a lifetime reserve, and three B-17s will fit the bill. Brian, I understand -- they aren't for everyone, you either love 'em or hate 'em. I'm one of the guys who loves them. I've tried lotsa saddles -- narrow, wide, ultra-light, grooved, gel, cutout - you name it! For me nothing touches a broken-in Brooks. When a lot of other riders are standing up more and more and complaining toward the end of a century, I've got zero soreness and zero numbness.

MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by: Art on 9/18/2000 at 1:11:12 PM
This is the stupidist thing that I have ever done "to" a bike. I found an odd bike at a swap meet years ago. It was a KHS built, West German made aluminum road bike with aero tubing. It had Shimano AX brakes which I had never seen before. The lugs were cast aluminum. This was a pretty interesting bike, so I decided to rebuild it with all Dura Ace AX parts. These weren't easy to find and it took me about 6 months to get the groupo together piece by piece. I even got a new AX water bottle. The final piece I needed was the rear derailleur. When I got it from a guy in the midwest, he threw in an Ax aero seat post. I had the bike all together and I tried the seat post and it was too big. I stopped work for the evening, had dinner, and forgot about the bike for a few hours. Right before bed, I went out to my studio to check on how great my bike looked. I saw the seat post and thought that I could try to fit it one more time. I thought if I spread the tabs that held the binder bold that I could get it in. I took a screw driver and pried the tabs apart, they moved a little. I could smell success. I pried them one more time. I heard a snapping sound and watched as the cast lug snapped and the tab broke off. I couldn't believe that I had ruined the bike. I went to bed hoping that it was all a bad dream and unfortunatly it wasn't. I tried numerous times to repair the lug, but each subsequent repair job just made it worse. Eventually I traded the parts, then the frame. As soon as I snapped the tab off, in my heart, I knew I had ruined the bike. I just had to confess this act of stupidity. Ever do anything as dumb?

   RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by Keith on 9/18/2000 at 1:53:47 PM
I've had plenty of those moments, big ones and smal ones. Most of the time, I'm in a hurry -- bike stuff is sandwiched in btween all of my obligations, work and family. When I rush, I make mistakes, break things, lose things, strip threads, and scratch paint. Maybe the KHS would work with a seat collar or an internal expansion bolt seatpost. I know, it's not original, it's not the same.

   RE:RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by ChristopherRobin on 9/18/2000 at 2:22:27 PM
I sold a bike when I should have kept(donated) it. It was Mr. Debates Sr. personal bike. I sold it and then the buyer sold it and on and on and it's lost out there somewhere. I fear that the person who has it today does not even know it's history. Worse yet was I let the history of Debates Cycles and the Red Devils racing team slip through my fingers. I saw the books, and paper press clippings, and should have gotten down to writting a book with the families help.That bike should be in a museaum display. This was many moons ago, I was green and unseasoned,hasty and foolhardy. My sins are many and great and cannot be redeemed.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by Brian L. on 9/18/2000 at 4:57:55 PM

For the sake of we, the unenlightened, could you please share the history of Mr. Debates and the Red Devil Racing Team?

   RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by Tom Faust on 9/19/2000 at 12:35:13 PM
Art, all is not lost. Aluminum can be sucessfully welded. When going through your local Yellow Pages, check Metal Fabrication as well as Welding. The fabrication people are a litle more geared for unusual jobs, and tend to have the lats equipment.

   RE:RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by Tom Faust on 9/19/2000 at 12:40:21 PM
"lats" is intended to be "latest", the T's & E's are disapearing from my keyboard. For thee car guys I know aree out there, have a look at this http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=402892&a=8791985
Quick specs '72 Rallye Charger, 383, slap-stick, 4.56 posi. Less than 1/2 the price of a new Bianchi.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPIDITY posted by Brian L. on 9/19/2000 at 7:10:03 PM
Is it in a box(es)?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   AH, THE STUPDITY TY posted by Art on 9/20/2000 at 7:11:23 AM
The bike is gone, probably under someone's table in that great swap meet in the sky. I had it professionally welded twice, it snapped the first time I tried to clamp the seat post tight. The second time, the welder burned off the embossed star on the side of the lug. I traded the grouppo for a campy equipped Scapin and the frame for a 40's girl's dayton cruiser that I turned into a lawn sculture. I've never seen or heard about this bike anywhere. The bike was like an upgraded, high end version of the Huffy Aerowind with positron components that I see around at times. The brakes on the Huffy are a plastic version of the Dura Ace AX.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by: Keith on 9/17/2000 at 10:32:25 AM
Yesterday I rode 102 miles in SE Ohio -- the Tour of Hocking Hills. I rode my trusty old 1972-73 Mercian Professional. Two guys noticed it. The first was a guy who also rode and raced in the 70s. He spoke warmly of the older bikes, but was riding a modern machine. He had just spent $400 on a custom rear wheel -- American Classics components, radial laced on the non-drive side. This was his first long ride on it. It went about 3 mm out of true in the first 50 miles. "Do you need a spoke wrench?" "No, it wouldn't do any good, it takes a special tool and the spoke heads aren't readily accessable anyway." So much for medern stuff. At about 80 miles, a guy on a Trek 5200 Carbon bike catches me at a stop light. I was annoyed with him right away -- the first thing he did was glue himself to me rear wheel. Anyway, he recognized my Mercian, but quipped, "The nnew bikes are so much better." I wanted to say something I wouldn't write here, but I retrained myself. II told him I disagreed, and that I once owned a Trek 5200, but sold it. I told him that the "nude" carbon at the stay ends was turning white, like plastic that's fatigued and about to break. I said, you better keep an eye on that. He admitted this was his 3rd Trek frame. The first came un-bonded, and he crashed the second. He also said, "index shifting is so much better." I shifted with my friction -- it went right into gear -- I said, "there, see, friction works real well." Finally, I got tired of him, so I picked up the pace and rode him off my rear wheel. I passed lots of young guys on carbon and titanium -- you'd have been proud of me.

   Annoying people posted by Oscar on 9/17/2000 at 4:00:12 PM
Of all the bikes on all the miles of trail, this guy has to make friends with me. He was a recumbunt rider, and he was yelling at fathers pulling Burleys and kids playing alongside the trail. So I passed him. Unfortunately, he caught up to me at a red light and wanted to talk about bikes. Actually, he wanted to talk about his bike. And how fast he is. And that he is 54. And that he used to race against this guy and that guy. And that he saw the Tour de France 5 years ago. And that his sister says he is so young looking. And that he used to ride with this other recumbent rider, but they had a falling out. And on, and on, and on.

Worst of it all, he was pretty fast, stayed up with me and kept talking on and on. He who put us on the Earth did so for us to care for each other, but He does not always make it easy.

   group rides -- something old, something new posted by John E on 9/17/2000 at 6:21:24 PM
A friend organizes monthly "tours de Mission Bay" for recumbents, although everyone is invited. I always enjoy showing up on the Capo, and letting him tell everyone else,
"that's a nice '60's bike. I knew a guy who raced for them [Austro-Daimler]." Since he edits a recumbent magazine, he gets plenty of bikes to test-drive. His latest infatuation, and one of the fastest, most cleverly-engineered recumbents I have ever seen, is a front-wheel-drive Zox, from Germany. Although I have reservations about sitting so low in traffic, I enjoy looking at the recumbents because they are so varied and different -- the same reason I like my old relics.

   RE:group rides -- something old, something new posted by Brian L. on 9/17/2000 at 6:56:12 PM
I'm with you on the visibility thing - it's hard enough just being seen on a normal frame, even with a gaudy jersey on, which just seems to irritate a certain breed of motorist. Recumbents are certainly fast, at least on the flats. I've never ridden one to know, or seen them on the hills, but you just can't possibly have the advantage of gravity on your side trying to climb in one of those things. And the looks ...

I sound like some sort of redneck.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by Keith on 9/18/2000 at 6:18:34 AM
My problem with recumbents is not the hill-climbing or visability, but handling. People who ride short wheelbase ones can't go in a straight line consistently, and are therefore dangerous to ride with. People who ride long wheelbase ones can't go around corners well, and are therefore also dangerous to ride with. Case in point: I was riding with a guy who was on a long-wheelbase model. Ironically, just as he was boasting about the virtues of recumbents, we came to a sharp turn. He couldn't make it, went off the road, and fell over (at least he didn't have far to fall). If I'd been on the other side he could very well have taken me down with him. And I've made many a wide pass around shorties as they twitch from one side to another. This year, however, I did have the pleasure of riding with one recumbent guy who, fully recognizing their limitations, specifically worked on his form -- cornering, straight-line riding, and he said it took him two years before he got it right. He could do it (on a mid-wheelbase model), but he's the only one I've seen pull it off.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by Oscar on 9/18/2000 at 7:56:56 AM
I regularly see packs of them on the trail on weekends. I can't put my finger on it, but there is some kind of "recumbent attitude". These guys have expensive machines, and I'll bet there's a whole arms race of new technology there. They'll always tell you how recumbents are superior, and how fast they can go. In truth, it turns out they are upper middle aged, upper middle class guys with bad backs. I'm glad to see them riding, but I'd wish they would lose the attitude.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by Keith on 9/18/2000 at 8:52:18 AM
No offense to engineers -- a lot of them bike, are smart, nice, etc. No better or worse than any other group. But I think a lot of the recumbent riders I've encountered are engineers -- I guess they appreciate the enhanced efficiency more then the rest of us. Unfortunately, yes, some can be a bit snobbish about it. But it's funny when they lose control and fall over right in the middle of their pontification!

   'bents posted by John E on 9/18/2000 at 12:58:26 PM
... and some middle-aged engineers, such as I, ride classic road bikes. (However, I do agree that there are alot of engineers on 'bents out there.) Though I am obviously a stalwart defender of Tradition, I do understand the appeal of traveling lower to the ground and feet-first, particularly under scenarios of fork, stem, or handlebar failure, front brake lockup, front tyre blowout, or even crank or chain breakage. However, 'bents are counterproductive in the sense that they decrease one's uphill speed while increasing one's speed, and I would still much rather go over the bonnet (been there, done that, still here) than below the undercarriage in a collision with a motor vehicle.

I think the real, largely unspoken attraction of 'bents among us gents over 50 is the urogenital nerve and circulatory damage that the pressure of a conventional bicycle saddle can cause. To prevent problems, I use my trusty old Brooks Pro and one of the new anatomically correct saddles with a depression or groove on top.

   RE:'bents posted by Art on 9/18/2000 at 7:12:25 PM
A lot of the guys I know that ride recumbents due so due to prostrate problems, which probably explains the over fifty angle. I think some men's bodies are prone to the type of problems John E talks about. Riding almost any regular saddle can be a real problem for them. No matter what shape your body is in, or what ills it is prone to, most of us have had a bad experience with a bad saddle because of it's shape, height, tilt, etc. Probably better to ride a recumbent than not ride, but in traffic I think they can be very dangerous.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by Keith on 9/19/2000 at 6:21:23 AM
Very true!! Recumbent or otherwise, if someone's riding, it's better than not riding. I've got an enlarged prostate (let's get personal here, huh?). I'm happy with Brooks as well as the relatively new Terry Liberator saddles for men. As important as the type of saddle is how it's positioned. I have my saddles slope down about 1-2 degrees. Also, having the stem up for a more upright position tends to rock you back onto the sit bones, where you belong.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hocking Hills posted by WIngs on 9/21/2000 at 11:55:46 PM
Great string of conversation!
I was on a road bike with a brooks saddle most of my life--but running was really my thing! The bike helped me as a runner and I also enjoyed it.
your comments are very perceptive about recumbent riders. As a recumbent rider here are my observations:
1. Most are older and overweight or the reclining position causes the stomach to protrude. They certainly do not tend to have the streamlined roadie bodie.
2. Most like to tinker with bikes and do so on their recumbents trying to create the perfect (for them) machine.
3. Many have back or neck problems and no longer can stay in the roadie position. At least (as you said) they get exercise!
4. In the past I have seen lots of roadie negative comments. Hostile remarks about recumbent bikes. "Get a real bike." In recent years it is not unusual for a roadie to carry on a good conversation and ride along with me for a good stretch. Perhaps things have improved in this area. In fact I see quite a few groups regularly with road bikes and recumbents. Friendships bridging the bikes.
5. When I first subscribed to a recumbent magazine (long ago) there was a definite attitude toward those on road bikes. One dealer even had a sign that said (in symbols) "No Wedgies." So there was a definite attitude--But, I don't see that in print any longer and recumbent guys put that attitude down within their group. We are out there to get exercise and enjoy a ride. Perhaps there will always be some attitude problems on both sides!
6. On a weekend I take my life in my hands as I am yelled at (Wierdo) from passing cars and have been hit by cups of soda. Come to think of it they even yell "Wierdo" when I am not on my bike!

I really enjoyed all the above comments! Sorry to hear about Brooks and SA. Happy biking!

MISC:   Improvements in our archive search engines posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 9/17/2000 at 9:11:21 AM
We've just made some more changes to the search engines of our Discussion Area Archives.
You can now search our entire 5 years of archives, from 1995 to the present.

Click on "Search Our Discussion Area Archives" in the dropdown list at the top of this page, or access the Vintage Bicycle Archive Search engines from our home page.

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   2 - RACE INC. 20'' ALUMINUM FRAMES posted by: KIRBY on 9/15/2000 at 7:05:32 PM

WANTED:   NOS Schwinn Tires 27 1 1/4 for 10 speed posted by: Larry on 9/15/2000 at 5:25:03 PM
looking for NOS orig, 27 1 1/4 tires for 60s schwinn ten speed. Also! need NOS decals for "schwinn Varsity" 70s bike. Please email! Thanks so much, LS

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   CIOCC track frames 1977-1982 posted by: Jason Carpenter on 9/15/2000 at 1:06:44 PM
I am looking for info pertaining to Mr. Pellizolli's company. I know of his 2 assistants (brothers) that continue the co. today. What I want to know is: Was there a low end and a hi end track frame made during these years?
The ones I have seen lately are black w/ yellow CIOCC decals and full chrome fork w/ 3/4 chrome rear triangle. The bb shell looks like a cinelli and the 2 cutouts in the seat mast and down tube are painted yellow. The fork crown is flat and looks cinelli. The bb shell also has a 4leaf clover cutout in the bottom. The one I know personally is not numbered. The 2 others I have seen for sale/sold recently are said to be "World 77" or "San Cristobal" models, no doubt from the decal that is present. Mine has a world cup with colors and the writing very small above and below the globe are: san Cristobal 1st and nurenberg 2nd. I know the Ciocc co. was selling bikes from the worlds 1977 win and I presume they put that sticker on all the bikes? So back to my original question, which is which?
The collector who knows CIOCC history please respond. I know they were copies of the mid 1970s bikes by the late 70s early 80s but I still want to know more. I apologise for the long post
jason in nyc

AGE / VALUE:   Poor Coppi! posted by: Christopherrobin on 9/15/2000 at 6:39:32 AM
I was reading some old bike magazines and read that Faustio Coppi has his bicycle stolen and when it was recovered a few hours later the thief had turned up his handlebars! Coppi remarked that this is not proper on a racing machine. He sent for a spanner and turned the bars down. This was in 1964.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Poor Coppi! posted by Oscar on 9/15/2000 at 7:20:26 PM
It seems that I never see a Schwinn Continental that doesn't have its bars turned upright. I assume that they aren't stolen, however.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rauler Info posted by: Mark Poore on 9/14/2000 at 4:51:36 AM
Is anyone familiar with the Italian bike Rauler? I bought one a month ago and it has very fancy chrome lugs. Having grown up racing road and track in the mid 60’s as well as traveling through Italy and visiting many frame builders shop while there, I have never seen an Italian bike with fancy lugs similar to the English bikes. I believe the bike was built as a commemorative frame to go with the Campy’s 50th Anniversary Grouppo as that is what it was equipped with. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I have some photos I could e-mail if that would help. mpoore@snowshoemtn.com

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rauler Info posted by Keith on 9/14/2000 at 6:27:50 AM
Mark, it seems to me that the depth of the experience you describe may well exceeds that of the enthusiasts who frequent this site. Yes, Italian lugs, to me, are pointed and plain, with some modest cutouts, like De Rosa or Colnago, or plain old round holes, like Cinneli. I once saw a low-end ladies Italian bike with fancy lugs. I don't recall the brand. I've never seen anything Italian that resembles a Hetchins or a Mercian Vincitore. Nor have I heard of Rauler. Sounds like quite a find. I hope someone else here can shed some light.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rauler Info posted by Christopherrobin@starmail.com on 9/14/2000 at 7:01:11 AM
Please e-mail me at christopherrobin@starmail.com

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rauler Info posted by Brian L. on 9/14/2000 at 7:31:09 PM
My abandoned-by-the-side-of-the-road Bugati has somewhat ornate lugs. The sticker indicates that it was made in Milano, so maybe it was a Milanese thing. I've also seen Galetti's with ornate, i.e. Nervex lugs, which is not quite the same thing as hand-carved.