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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need help with date code on Schwinn posted by: Bill on 9/27/2000 at 6:33:01 PM
I tried to look up this number on an old schwinn with a 2-speed coaster brake on it. The bike doesn't look to be real old; maybe in the 60's? Anyone happen to know when they stopped using the 2 speed rear hubs? The serial # is MA60397. Has the skinny tires.Any help appreciated. BTW, my other bike was made in '53 and is black with chrome fenders and a smallish chrome plated horn tank. It is also a 2 speed schwinn, and a pretty heavy bike. Don't know which model it might be...s/n K227238.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need help with date code on Schwinn posted by Wings on 9/27/2000 at 11:11:19 PM
First letter (no "i") = month = M = December.
Second letter (no "i" or "O") = A = 1965
December 1965

(LB 34566 would be November 1966.)

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Need help with date code on Schwinn posted by Bill on 9/28/2000 at 7:54:20 PM
Thanks. I looked at the chart again and you are right.My brain must have been tired last nite!

AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by: Keith on 9/27/2000 at 6:36:01 AM
This summer I started commuting by bike to work every day instead of once or twice per week as I had in the past. So I ride about two hours every day now (btw, driving takes about 1/2 hour each way, riding takes about 1 hour). After only a few months, it has already had a dramatic, positive impact on my health. I've lost 24 pounds. I'm 42 -- my cholesterol has gone from 190 to 150. My LDL ("bad" cholesterol) is down to 71 (less than 130 is healthy). My HDL ("good" cholesterol) is up to 54 (average is 40-50). And I did it by spending more time doing something I love (and avoiding something I don't enjoy). DUH! This morning I got to see the sun filter through the mist rising over the quarry lake I pass on the way to work, while the car drivers on the freeway behind the trees missed it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Art on 9/27/2000 at 5:14:17 PM
I commute about 5 miles to work, mostly on asphalt paths that run along Phoenix's canals. I'm still dealing with 100degree heat on the afternoon ride back, but the mornings are cool and I usually see commuters or roadies. I pass homeless people camped out, prisoners working park detail, I never know what I'm going to see. Once I saved a little terrier puppy who had fallen or was dumped in the canal. I carried him about three miles under my arm and he was so happy to be saved he didn't squirm a bit. I have several areas on and off the canal system that I have to deal with traffic. The traffic is so bad and the drivers so ignorant here that it is safer to ride on the sprawling sidewalks. Sidewalk riding in the west is a trick in and of itself and I have to be totally alert or I could get rally jammed up. The most dangerous places for me are intersections, where cars and trucks blow though making right hand turns and are furious if a bike rider is in their way. Even making eye contact with the driver doesn't always help, sometimes they look right at me and keep going. I worry about children on bikes. Two have died here this month after being hit by cars...one by a hit and run driver. I know how focused I try to be, but a young child, even with a helmet is so vulnerable.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Wings on 9/27/2000 at 11:24:52 PM
Keith: FANTASTIC!!!!!
I have been a long distance runner since high school.
Then a couple of injuries sent me to walking, hiking, backpacking and a little bikeing.
Now a left foot injury-- which I hope will get better and allow hiking- puts me only on the bike. The choices keep narrowing but for the last 10 years biking has been it--just like it was when I was a kid.
If I am not out for a ride I feel it. I try to ride daily!
Keep up the good work. Sure beats walking a treadmill in a gym doesn't it!!!

   sidewalk cycling posted by John E on 9/28/2000 at 7:51:48 AM
Although I occasionally resort to sidewalk cycling myself, I generally try to avoid it and try to discourage it among others because of the grave danger at intersections and because it can lead to bad public relations with pedestrians. It also reinforces the motorist mentality that bicycles do not belong on public roads (which, by the way, tend to be financed more by general tax funds than by fuel taxes, which go primarily to maintaining the interstate highway system). On most roads, the John Forester-style lawful vehicular cyclist is actually safer and much more likely to be seen than one who cowers in the gutter or on the sidewalk. Class I dedicated bicycle paths can be nice, but what we really need are wide curb lanes, traffic lights whose loop detectors respond to bicycles as well as to cars, and traffic controls at merges and diverges.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Keith on 9/28/2000 at 8:28:12 AM
In Columbus, Ohio it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk. One of our downtown motorcycle cops has made it his mission to rid the downtown of bicycles (though he's never caught me). I feel I have a moral right to break the law and ride on the sidewalk when I believe it's safer to do so -- it's not my fault that the infrastucture cannot safely accomodate both bicycles and cars (at least not entirely). But when I do so, I ride slowly, carefully, and yield to pedestrians. I agree that riding assertively will keep you safer on the street 99.9% of the time. The problem is, it's that .1% that will kill you. I'm very fortunate -- about 12 miles of my 14-mile commute is now on recently-completed bike paths, where the biggest danger is dogs that aren't on leashes (not that this doesn't lead to thrilling dodges and close calls on a daily basis). As one friend always tells me, we need to alter the infrastucture -- we need bicycle right of ways. Like John, he's on the money with this. I guess we need to become advocates. David Perry's Bike Cult has good discussions of these topics.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Oscar on 9/28/2000 at 2:53:53 PM
The City of Chicago is doing a great job of designating bike lanes and bike routes for cyclecommuters. I’m 10 miles from the heart of the city, and most of that travel is on a bike lanes. Unfortunately, I don’t work in the heart of the city, so I have to pick my along quiet streets in order to get to and from work safely.

My 9-mile commute is 30 minutes by car. My best bike-travel time is 29 minutes. A quick shower (lucky to have one), a stashed change of clothes, and no-one’s the wiser.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Christopher on 9/28/2000 at 4:52:28 PM
I noticed my friend on his way home from work riding his bike. There were cars whizzing past him within inches. He was exercising his right as a cyclist to use the roadway. The problem is, the drivers are crazy and dodge in and out, the road is not nowhere wide enough. I was afraid for him when I saw the situation. There are no paths, no sidewalks(and if there were you can't ride a bike on a sidewalk) There is a hill there and It just made me ill. He is sharp, agile, and a very experienced cyclist. This is part of his everyday commute and he is used to it. It only takes one distracted driver with the sun in his eyes and it's all over. This one time I saw the police car, the guy he had pulled over, the lights on the cars, but the officer was wearing all black or very dark blue and he was out into the street, into traffic, talking with this driver. He was doing his job but he was out in the street wearing all black without anything reflective sewn down the side of the pants leg. I suppose there is some good reason why police uniforms do not have reflective material. This was a bad situation, he was very difficult to see at night and here he was out in the street. I slowed down, went around them, my vision is perfect and weather was good, just dark. They could have had more street lights. I looked at this officer and wondered what, if anything, was wrong with the picture.Construction workers, tree trimming crews,road crews, snow plow workers, everyone wears something reflective but when was the last time you saw a peace officer with anything like a reflective uniform. If you see the officers car then you assume he/she is around somewhere. But where? This cop had shiny black shoes, and the entire uniform was really dark, no silver badge or anything.A white shirt or something wouldn't you think? I can see why a black car is appropriate, but the uniform too?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Keith on 9/29/2000 at 6:41:54 AM
The "passing within inches" sounds familiar. I think drivers today are more aggressive and in a hurry than ever before. Car phones also add to the problem -- ever see a big SUV pulling up to a stop sign on your right, dirver looking the other way, talking on the phone, and pulling out right in front of you, never even looking over? Say yes, 'cause I know you have.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by ChristopherRobin on 9/29/2000 at 11:02:24 AM
On the way home from work I saw a peace officer in all dark blue/black but he had a reflective vest on!Good.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ride more, enjoy it, live longer posted by Wings on 9/29/2000 at 9:37:10 PM
There is a highway that I travel. One Lane in each direction and loaded with trucks. Heavily traveled country road with people traveling at 60mph or so.
I have seen an older man on a bike riding on this road several times now. There is little or no shoulder. Now this is what realy bothers me: He tied a pole perpendicular to his rear rack and put a yellow flag on it in an effort to keep cars away from him. This pole sticks out at least 3 feet-straight out to the left side-- and I can just see a car hitting it at 55mph and know what it would do to him!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by: Pete. on 9/26/2000 at 5:20:19 AM
Can you guys help me put a date on a bike? It is a Dawes Debonair, found on a local (english)rubbish tip last weekend. It has 27" x 1 1/4" steel rims, alloy 'GB Sports' brakes, large flange Normandy hubs, engraved alloy drop bars, alloy seat pin, 4 speed deraileur one side, fixed cog the other. Racing style Dawes leather saddle, steel Dawes pedals, steel chainwheel and cranks, Bayliss Wyley bottom bracket. It has white plastic mudguards and a two-tone blue/white paint job. Any help with dating it would be much appreciated. It has a 50s/60s look about it and is in a sorry state. Regards, Pete.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by Keith on 9/27/2000 at 6:19:46 AM
Cool. I'm no expert -- wish I could narrow it more, but it sounds '50s to me. What kind of derailleur (so John and I can get out our "Dancing Chains")?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by hjfl on 9/27/2000 at 8:31:58 AM
Where can the book The Dancing Chain be purchased?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by Keith on 9/27/2000 at 10:41:53 AM
The Dancing Chain is availble from the publisher at www.vanderplas.net. It's also available from Rivendell -- www.rivendelbicycles.com. I'm still slogging through it myself. But don't get me wrong -- I'm not recomending it as accurate or well-written -- but it's the only source of it's kind out there.

   Dancing Chain posted by John E on 9/27/2000 at 1:32:42 PM
I bought my copy via amazon.com for about $35. Keith and others have noted that there are some inaccuracies, but overall I have found it extremely interesting. (I am biased because I share Frank Berto's positive opinion of SunTour rear derailleurs and still use them on everything but my Bianchi, which would not look right without its Campy N.R.) Also, I agree with Keith that there is probably other source for much of the information in this book.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by WIngs on 9/27/2000 at 11:16:09 PM
Can you tell me more of the "Dancing Chain?"
Is it historical or more technical?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dawes Debonair posted by Pete on 9/28/2000 at 2:55:02 AM
Thanks for the replies...not familiar with The Dancing Chain', sounds like I should be. The Dawes has an alloy Simplex changer on a braze-on on the down tube, but the gear mechanism has probably been changed as it is a chrome and plastic Huret, don't know what model. I've now learnt that deraileurs were non common in England until the later 1950's, so that is probably the date. I was riding lightweights in England as a teenager in the '60s, and by then standard kit was alloy rims, Benelux or Campag gears, GB centre-pulls. Cannot remember the mudguards (fenders) - don't think we used them. Wish I still had the bikes though - Claude Butler was considered the tops. Regards, Pete.

   Dancing Chain posted by John E on 9/28/2000 at 8:08:07 AM
"The Dancing Chain" is a reasonably technical treatise on the 20th Century evolution of the bicycle transmission. For each decade, it lists and describes the major contributions and advances by country and by company. It has myriad photographs of equipment and people. The American member of the author trio, Frank Berto, has graciously responded to my various email questions, comments, and corrections. (You can read my book review on the Amazon.com website, if you wish.)

   Delightfully dancing through The Dancing Chain posted by ChristopherRobin on 9/28/2000 at 4:22:19 PM
This is definitly recommended reading. It is excellent and a "must have" book if you are interested in bicycles and the history behind it. I am going to know this back and forth, inside and out.If you wake me up at 3:21 A.M. out of a sound sleep and ask me questions about Simplex I will know the answer! I looked through this book and found a picture and description of the Louison Bobet bicycle I found a month ago.That was cool. I never knew there were so many diffrent kinds of deraileurs made. I riped open the plastic and sat in the car leafing through this and thought "Wow this is really a lot of information" Worth every penny!!

AGE / VALUE:   sanwa posted by: nick on 9/26/2000 at 6:17:52 PM
does anyone know of a bike brand -sanwa (most likely japanese). or know of any sites with information about them. thanks.

FOR SALE:   Trek 520 / 501 tubing posted by: jim on 9/26/2000 at 12:46:28 PM
Early 80's, 58cm, Suntour 7spd Barcons, Modolo Anotomic drop bars, Weinmann caliper brakes, triple chainrings, Araya rims, 35mm Michelins w/ zero miles, ready to ride early tourer. $100 + shipping

   RE:FOR SALE:   Trek 520 / 501 tubing posted by Jim on 10/5/2000 at 10:39:47 AM
Thanks for all the inquiries, bike has been sold!

MISC:   On Good Rides... posted by: Wings on 9/26/2000 at 12:09:43 PM
Last week I read a group of messages near the end of this sequence regarding rides and the thrill of passing people on older lightweights. Very enjoyable reading!
I ride many bikes in a very hilly area and therefore my rides are good workouts but not as long. My favorite bike is a recumbent -- in addition to several old bikes. Roadies are not in the hills where I ride! So, I pedaled out of the hills and hit the more level ride down the center of the valley where everyone rides and had a great 20+mile ride! I need to do that every week and it was due to your encouragement in your remarks about your rides!!! Thanks guys!
The bonus is that I passed one roadie! (Recumbent riders and Schwinn riders enjoy this!) I wear holy tennies and a t shirt! No one passed me!!! So, maybe my hill riding is paying off! But thanks for writing about your rides!! Keep it up!
Your comments caused me to

   RE:MISC:   On Good Rides... posted by Oscar on 9/26/2000 at 1:44:05 PM
Because of my schedule, I usually ride alone. However, my favorite rides are on busy trails with lotsa folks and lotsa bikes to see.

   RE:RE:MISC:   On Good Rides... posted by Wings on 9/26/2000 at 11:16:15 PM
A Humble ride today!
I was in the 6th mile of uphill. I had several half mile sections of near granny and several 100 yard sections of granny.
I am doing 3.4mph on my recumbent on a new street at the end of a new residential area with open country 100 yards ahead. No cars. No one in sight. It is hot and I am working.
All of a sudden I hear a series of high pitched grunts--almost like a loud hawk only louder and of unusual sound. I check the mirror--nothing. I hear it again--I look around and nothing. I hear this banshee yell-grunt again and it is closer and louder. At 3.4 mph
I am just able to maintain control, but I turn my head all way around and see what is making that loud grunt -yell and nothing is there. I lose it and catch myself from falling over--I am stopped! I hear this loud grunt -yell on my right and here is a kid passing me (maybe 4th grade) riding a 16 inch wheel Diamondback BMX bike and with every pedal stroke he is letting out this loud banshee yell-grunt. He was racing me and I never knew it! And I lost it! He also was wearing tennis shoes!

   The other side of Wings' story... posted by Oscar on 9/27/2000 at 11:56:46 AM
Brave of you to tell your story. Y'know there a BMX kid out there telling how he smoked some guy on one of those crazy bikes going up a hill. He's probably the playground hero, now.

   RE:The other side of Wings' story... posted by Wings on 9/27/2000 at 11:29:50 PM
Yep, I made him a hero!
I bet he remembers that for a long time.
It may just be the spark that makes him famous with a bike some day! I never knew he was there and you should have seen him let out that yell with each stroke of the crank and it took all he had.
I have been depressed today! Afraid to ride again!!

   hot-shot kids posted by John E on 9/28/2000 at 8:21:54 AM
What finally broke my first Capo frame was chasing a 15-year-old Varsity-riding kid up a 14 percent grade. As I approached him, I started to hear a loud creak with each pedal stroke. Looking down at the shifters, I noticed that the downtube had cracked more than halfway around. I completed the ride very slowly and gently, then donated the frame to a friend who wanted to teach his metal shop students about tube butting.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by: Jonathan on 9/26/2000 at 12:55:36 AM
I have tried to locate some info on a Reynolds tubing
that's designated "2030". Is this a rare tubing? It was used on Raleigh Record Aces from '70's? Second question:
Is there a site to date Raleigh 10 sp. lightweights? All I find is 3-speed serial #'s.
Thanks, Jonathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Tom Adams on 9/26/2000 at 5:15:56 AM
One site with Raleigh info, including dates from serial numbers is Retro Ralieighs at http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/
The info they have on Raleigh Record Aces is that they were introduced in '73, but were made from Reynolds 531db. I haven't heard of the Reynolds 2030 tubing. All the high end raleighs I've seen from the 70s used Reynolds 531 tubing. Good luck.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Keith on 9/26/2000 at 9:15:40 AM
My 1978 Raleigh DL-1 (28" tires, rod brakes, etc.) has the same tubing sticker. The bad news is that the sticker designates the lowest-quality plain steel tubing Raleigh used. It's not bad stuff, just heavy, and not well suited for a true lightweight. The Record Ace was a top-end model "club bike" in the 1950s, and was always 531. In the 1970s it seems to have designated a lower-end ten speed, but I'm not entirely clear on the specs of the model or how it developed in the 70s. For some reason the guys of Retro Raleigh seem to attach some significance to the late models, indicating collectability, though I'm not sure why.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Larry Osborn on 10/4/2000 at 7:21:02 AM
Greetings campers

Just hoping to provide a little clarification on the RRA issue.
The "Raleigh Record Ace - RRA" name came and went several times from the Raleigh lineup,
for reasons known only to Raleigh.
I agree with what has been already said about the 1940s/1950s versions, so I'll drop it.
The 1973 version that appears on the Retro-Raleighs website was a one year thing,
alledgedly to keep bikes in the pipeline in anticipation of
a shortage of Campagnolo components. It was an entry level racer,
about equivalent to a Raleigh Competition or Peugeot PX-10.
The RRA name reappeared again in the late 70s and continued into
the early 80s. This version of the RRA is probably what you have Jonathan,
and it's about equivalent to a Raleigh Gran Prix or Super Course.
Totally different from the 1973/74 version.

I must dispute Keith's comment that inclusion of the RRA
(or any other model) on the Retro-Raleigh website suggests collectibility.
As an unindicted co-conspirator on R-R, I can only say that the intent
of the website is, and always has been, to provide information.
It was not created to set ourselves up as critics and arbiters of
collectibility and value. Please don't drop that in our laps.
We don't want it. It's about as welcome as a rabid racoon.

The 73/74 RRA was a unique little bike, made in limited numbers
(and maybe limited sizes), with a somewhat bizarre assortment of components.
It suffered from all the quality problems that were rampant
with Raleigh bikes and mid/high-quality European components at the time.
Add to that, crude assembly, a nasty paint combination of appliance white
and Piper Cub yellow, and "pin"stripping that looked like it
applied by a drunk with a crayon. I have a personal history with
and an inexplicable attachment to the bike. Just a symptom of
my own little mental health problems. Hardly a rousing endorsement
for value, collectibility, or status as a "classic".

The 1973/74 RRA was not included in a Raleigh catalog in the US,
(I don't know about the UK catalogs), and I have never seen or heard of any
written spec sheet for the bike either.
A few years ago when I first went looking for one to replace
"the one that got away", I was suprised to discover that
some very knowledgeable folks had no idea what I was talking about.
So I pooled my own vague and potentially unreliable memories
with those of a few other questionable "authorities"
(i.e., other former owners and/or dealers) and put that info
on the R-R website. I went into minute detail because there
may be no other information available out there, NOT with
the intent to bestow an aura of collectibility upon it.
If anybody is aware of any "official" description of the bike,
or a magazine road test article, please clue me in.
There are still a few minor errors and omissions
in the information on R-R (with corrections and additions
to follow someday when time permits), and contributions from
other people's questionable memories are always welcome.
As was always the case with Raleigh, specifications were
subject to change without notice, and I'm sure there are
variations that I haven't stumbled across yet.

Blah blah blah
I gotta go
Larry "RRA - Retro Raleighs Anonymous" Osborn

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Keith on 10/4/2000 at 12:00:56 PM
Sorry that I inferred what you never meant to imply. My '71 International is similarly crude in its finish. But I still love it, as well as my DL-1s and various other RI 3-speeds.

   Color for   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Jonathan on 10/17/2000 at 10:34:42 PM
Since I have 2 of these RRA's and they are both a light tone
of blue color with black trim paint, I wonder if that was a common paint
scheme; considering that I purchased both at different times
(years) and different places, it seems to me that it might be a diagnostic
for age and type designation. The one that is running, I use for commuting.
It is an 18 speed! There seems to be no limit to how much
it can haul on the rear Blackburn...it is pretty beefy, but is remarkably subtle in handling
the road. My wife has a Raleigh 3-speed that she rides with me on the marsh "flats". Now, that is a heavy
"pounder" compared to the RRA. BTW, thanks for the clarification of the history of RRA's.

   Here's what I found on:   Raleigh Record Ace & Reynolds 2030 tubing posted by Jonathan on 10/18/2000 at 8:41:44 PM
Nothin' like answering yourself, but I happened to find a chapter in The Complete
Book of Cycling; Eugene A. Sloane, 1983. Here is what it had:
High Carbon 2030....Yield Strength, 17 KG/MM*2.
Reynolds 531....yield strength, 67 KG/MM*2.
The other tubings had similar ratings to the 531 alloy.
The yield strength is that point where the sample bends under applied force...like in a wreck, I suppose.
Anyway, I guess it isn't some exotic alloy, which I'm slightly saddened to discover.

MISC:   Back when bikes looked diferent from each other posted by: Oscar on 9/25/2000 at 7:53:13 PM
I walked past a fine looking relic from the early 70's. Nothing about it looked high end, but everything about it was individual.

It was a Plymouth Racer (Ever hear of it?) It was black with chrome fork ends. It had a cottered crank with a chain guard on the ring as big as a hub cap. It also had Shimano(?) stem mounted shifters that were thin and plastic covered. They looked like toggles on an old fashioned tape recorder. Did you ever see short-reach centerpull brakes?

Just about everything about it was unusual. Obviously, it is not a "professional" road bike, but it has a sense of style with an eye for detail.

Modern low end bikes look like modern high end bikes. It's nice to see something different.

   RE:MISC:   Back when bikes looked diferent from each other posted by Keith on 9/26/2000 at 9:30:09 AM
You've really hit on something. Back then, there was Campy, Simplex, Huret, Suntour and Shimano. The derailleurs, for example, looked very different from brand to brand (compare a Huret Alvit, Simplex Prestige, Campy Nouvo Record, and Suntour V -- way different from each other!). Best of all, with 5-6 speed friction shift, it was mostly interchangeable. (So I hung a Campy Valentino on my otherwise French Gitane Interclub.) Now it's almost all Shimano. The most variation you'll see is an upgrade on the rear derailleur -- a Dura Ace instead of an Ultegra -- gotta stay with the integrated system! And even the Campy stuff pretty much looks like Shimano, don't you think? And frames used to vary -- they were hand-made -- even the cheap ones, and the lugs were different. Because of the human touch, finish also used to vary -- I compare the smooth, evenly filed Nervex lugs of my Paramount with the crude but adequate Nervex lugs on my Raleigh International -- big differences! Now, its TIG or bonding. Much less variation, much less room for the human touch. New bikes lack warmth -- it's dificult to get excited about them.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Back when bikes looked diferent from each other posted by Wings on 9/26/2000 at 11:37:03 PM
Old cars had character and individuality. The new cars tend to be very similar in shape.
Many of the new $500,000 homes that I see are just big two story boxes--very dull in appearance. Contrast that with a victorian or California Craftsman.
I wonder also if people were more individualistic 80 years ago because they were not hit with so much media telling them how they should be. I remember families had time to do things, neighbors came over often. At least where I live everything is moving at a very fast pace with cell phone, beepers, and instant satisfaction of needs.
Is the lack of attention to detail in a lug or the lack of hand crafted bikes just mirroring the change that is taking place all around us?
Bike are popular at University campuses near where I live. I have seen a Hiawatha in near condition with its wheels kicked to pieces. I have seen numerous bikes in the surf on a Sunday morning since it is fun to run them off the cliffs. Bikes are tossed and smashed all over on Friday night. The homeless guys pick up the pieces and take them to a homeless bike builder the next morning. At this school bikes are needed but they are also trashed for fun. I can't remember ever seeing that when I grew up.
Perhaps one indicator of cultural change is the design, beauty, paint job, use, and desire for bikes. Also where we have them made--because we don't have the time here.

   TIG welds and crownless forks posted by John E on 9/27/2000 at 8:31:19 AM
I am disappointed that the full chrome Columbus fork blades on my friend's mid-grade 1994 Bianchi road bike are crownlessly TIG-welded to the steerer tube, as on modern mountain bikes. The forks on my otherwise comparable 1982 Bianchi have a great-looking crown, which is structurally superior to the crownless system. I am sorry to see continental Europe's oldest frame maker bowing to price pressure in this manner.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   THANK YOU IRENE, WHERE EVER YOU ARE. posted by: Brian L. on 9/25/2000 at 4:45:46 PM
Thank you ever so for the SunTour Bar Cons. Dying of embarassment, I believe that I've lost your email address. Was it you, Art? In any case, whoever mailed the shifters to me, I really appreciate, and feel like a dunce for misplacing your info. Could you drop me a line again so that I can send along a proper thanks? I have your mailing address, so I guess I could send along a note care of "Recepient".

AGE / VALUE:   Campy Brake levers posted by: Tom Adams on 9/25/2000 at 4:02:30 PM
This may have been answered many times, but I can't remember the answer. Brake levers on eBay are advertised as Campy Gran Sport. They have Campagnolo spelled out in block letters going down the lever. I thought that indicated NR levers. I thought Gran Sport levers had the shield logo on the front of the lever. Any guidance is appreciated.

Confused in KC

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Campy Brake levers posted by Eric Amlie on 9/27/2000 at 2:32:59 PM
I am no Campy expert but here is what I have gathered from watching the Ebay auctions: The GS levers have the Campy name in block letters as you describe. The NR levers have the same block letters but they are enclosed within another line that forms a sort of box around the name. The SR levers are the same as the NR but are drilled.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   The Dancing Chain posted by: Keith on 9/25/2000 at 9:17:55 AM
Wow. I got it as a gift this weekend. I spent a few hours with it and only scratched the surface -- it will require college-style study. Makes me wish more lightweights had been imported to the U.S. before the 70s bike boom.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Care of Brooks posted by: Keith on 9/25/2000 at 9:12:11 AM
Now that they're no longr made, better treat them right. I've used Neat's Foot oil in the past, but I'm going to use Proofide on my new ones. Two experts disagree -- Sheldon "Soak it in Neat's Foot" Brown, and Grant "Proofide Only" Peterson. Who's right? The last new one I bought was a B-66 a couple of years ago. Did the Neat's Foot soak with it -- it got very soft right away. Maybe too soft -- perhaps it's not a good idea (but soft is really okay for an upright riding position -- you're back on the sit bones no matter what). I'm going with Proofide on my new B-17s, even if it hurts. Enlighten me with your opinions and methods!

   good old saddle soap posted by John E on 9/25/2000 at 11:07:28 AM
I have never tried Neat's Foot oil. I have used Proofhide, and when my wife and sons were into horseback riding, regular saddle soap. Since my Brooks Pro is a bit cracked and creaky, but still very serviceable and comfortable after almost 50K miles, I must be doing something right.

   Proofide posted by oscar@freewheeling.com on 9/25/2000 at 2:12:03 PM
Proofide on the upper of the saddle. I let the lower breathe.

The B-17 is a great saddle for a mountain bike, but now I'm paranoid that I will ruin it on a spill.

MISC:   Austro-Daimler "Michelle" posted by: Tom Faust on 9/24/2000 at 7:52:32 PM
I recently picked up a new Austro-Daimler "Michelle", it is mixte frame,with a Nervar crank, Simplex derailers and Weinmann brakes. Here are some pictures http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=402892&a=8867830
Highlight the address, hold Control, type C,K,V. I have never seen handlebars quite like this before, The handlebar tape was originally brown but it had sat in the showroom so many years that it sun faded to brown. The sun had also killed the seat, a recent replacement is shown. The Semperit tires are whitewall on one side and gum wall on the other. The head post is imprinted 78. The dealer also has a few "Pathfinders", these have all Japanese equipment (Suntour). Does anyone know anything about these models? The dealer thinks he bought them in the late 70's. The original retail of the Michelle was $349.00, the Pathfinder $287.00.

   RE:MISC:   Austro-Daimler posted by Oscar on 9/25/2000 at 7:52:30 PM
I don't know much, but I have good taste. That's the first mixtie that I liked. Great handlebars - I've never seen any like them.

   RE:MISC:   Austro-Daimler posted by Tom Faust on 10/2/2000 at 8:22:35 PM
So far the pictures have registered 244 hits. Doesn't anyone know anything about this bike?

AGE / VALUE:   wha posted by: wilis on 9/24/2000 at 7:56:34 AM
has anyone heard of lennox as a name brand for a bicycle there kinda crapy

MISC:   Laganna? bicycle posted by: jeff on 9/24/2000 at 6:06:49 AM
Does anyone know anything about Laganna bikes? Iwas at a friends house and he had this really neat older bike there. To the best of my memory this was the name of it, or something like it. It had a very differnt looking chain guard and small holes the lenght of the rear fender where small bungee cord -like cords fanned out from the rear axel. the cords were starting to dry rot and need to be replaced.If anyone knows where I can get more imformation on this bike would you please e-mail me. He would like to get the cords replaced. The bike is in very good condition and just a little different . Thanks

   RE:MISC:   Laganna? bicycle posted by Brian L. on 9/24/2000 at 5:35:43 PM
Could it have been a Legnano?

   RE:MISC:   Laganna? bicycle posted by Tom Faust on 9/24/2000 at 7:45:16 PM
The "bungee cord like things" are a skirt guard arrangement, did you say it was a ladies frame? This was a popular arrangement on Italian bikes.