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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dunelt posted by: Danno on 10/29/2001 at 7:38:08 PM
I rescued an english Dunelt 3 speed with a sturmey-archer aw date of 1/66. I am looking for an original saddle and any info about the company. Thanks!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dunelt posted by Keith on 10/29/2001 at 9:48:26 PM
The British Roadster folks would have more to say, but your Dunelt 3-speed was made by Raleigh. It was one of several brands Raleigh Industries bought out after WWII, including Hercules. Ralrigh sold 3-speeds under a wide variety of names. Your Dunelt is a nice, functional 3-speed, but would be considered a less expensive model, ranking behind the more deluxe Raleigh Sports (with nicer rims, Brooks B-72, and welded mudguard stays) and Superebe (locking front fork, Brooks B-66 and Dynohub) models. The saddle was likely a vinyl Brooks (I had a '62 Dunelt and it had a matching red vinyl Brooks) although it's possible it came with a Brooks B-72, though I doubt it. Sheldon Brown's site (www.sheldonbrown.com) has great articles about British 3-speeds.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Dunelt posted by danno on 11/2/2001 at 3:25:54 PM
Thanks for your help Keith! Not a peep out of the roadster guys!

AGE / VALUE:   Griping about free find posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 10/29/2001 at 5:04:12 PM
I shouldn't complain. I pulled these from the trash, they were free. But, hey I will gripe anyway! Why do these sew up wheels have nothing printed or stamped on the hubs? The skewers are "Gnutti" Made in Italy. Rims are a well known brand that I forget. It is so maddening to see things that bear no manufactuer stamp or label; They're alloy, spin nicely and maker unknown. I find it for free and still want to see "Campagnolo" on the darned thing. I'll add these rims to the collection of sew up wheels where they'll sit as I don't do sew up's.

   lack of labels; an Italian thing? posted by John E on 10/29/2001 at 11:14:03 PM
The original rims from my 1982 Bianchi are quite nice and almost definitely Italian (the hubs are well-marked Ofmegas), but I have found no Nisi, Ambrosio, or other brand (or even size) markings anywhere on them.

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Jubilee Sport posted by: Elvis on 10/29/2001 at 5:01:35 PM
Hi all. I just picked up a motobecane Jubilee Sport. It's a nice clean bike with a chrome fork and light grey-blue frame. The bike is not heavy at all and has "MOTOBECANE" on raised letters on the side of the top tube near the seat stay. The bike's seatpost clamp is below rather than above the attatchment point of the top of the rear triangle, and it is built into the seat down tube itself.
The top tube has the rear brake cable routed inside it which I thought was really wierd. I was wondering if anyone knows how old it might be. Thanks!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Jubilee Sport posted by Walter on 10/30/2001 at 4:05:43 PM
I associate internal routing with some 80s aluminum frames from France and Italy. Alan and Guerciotti come to mind. I also think of contemporary Colnagos.

I have a modern Univega with under the top-tube routing, just like on an old Raleigh frame I had 25 years ago (and it was an old frame then). Don't care for it b/c when I clamp the bike in my Park stand it fouls the rear brake.

I was very much "into" Motos during late 70s-early 80s. I don't recall seeing those options in the lineup then. Moto went out of usiness sometime later but the name has recently resurrected. Sounds interesting.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane Jubilee Sport posted by Oscar on 10/30/2001 at 12:07:00 AM
Wasn't internal cable routing an 80's/90's thing?

   internal rear brake cable routing posted by John E on 10/30/2001 at 3:51:35 AM
Oscar, internal rear brake cable routing has gone in and out of style several times, as have under-chainstay rear brake mounting, through-the-stem front brake cabling, and a host of other fads. I cannot confirm this, but I suspect there are a few 1930s or 1950s frames with this feature, and I am sure I saw it on some Italian frames in the 1960s. Personally, I don't care for it, as it seems like a good way to let moisture seep into the top tube.

   RE:Motobecane question posted by Elvis on 10/31/2001 at 1:14:31 AM
Thanks all! I wasn't sure about the bike myself and it is good to hear some responses. I do have a question, as one person mentioned the internally routed cable could let moisture into the top tube; Should I be worried about rust? The bike looks swell and is unusually light [at least as a frame w/out wheels -- with wheels it weighs more but is still light] and seems in good shape frame-wise. Should I make a big deal of rust inside the top tube, and how do I check for it [aside from the obvious question of taking the cable out, which I'm not sure is a good idea because it seems like it'd be hard to get back in]?

   RE:RE:Motobecane question posted by Stacey on 11/1/2001 at 7:45:38 PM
I have a Sears 10 spd frame, Elvis. It's marked Austria on the headbadge and stamped Made in W. Germany on the right seat stay... Perhaps one of the Styer-Daimler offerings? Anyhow, I'm bragging :-) Back to your question... This bike has the rear brake cable routed through the top tube. There are grommets in the frame that seal around the cable housing quite securely. To check for rust I'd think if you took one of those long swab thingies that the Dr. sticks down your throat after he tells you to say Ahhh. Squirt it with some WD-40, pull the cable away slightly and insert said swab. Rub it around inside the tube and withdraw. Check the cotton tip. This should give you an idea of the condition of the inside of the frame.

To replace the cable after removal: set yourself up with a couple of fish wires (like electricians use only use a lighter gage wire) with one wire in each hole aimed towards each other fish around until you hook the other one (this may take some time depending on what bait you are using) when you've successfully hooked a wire pull it out till you have one continous wire going in to the frame and the exiting the other hole. At this point you tape your new brake cable to the piece of wire sticking out of your frame and CAREFULLY pull the wire and cable through.

Man smart... woman is smarter! :-)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   sports tourer posted by: Brian L. on 10/29/2001 at 4:54:38 PM
Vintage sports tourer on ebay, yours cheap: #1023994539. Needs fork.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Harry Quinn posted by: Jeff on 10/29/2001 at 12:19:50 AM
This may make a few chuckle, (as intended) I have a Harry Quinn, (reapeat it outloud to your spouse). Anyway, I'm glad to see a site devoted to us cyclophiles, My Quinn is a 1977 Team Mercury Frame 75 Degree Criterium angles, but is still comfortable for a century, I have done them, if you can ride no handed, you can survive. I have a bit of information on Quinns, there was an old posting on the other website from a man looking for imformation. Feel free to e-mail me as I am a bit nostalgic myself. Oh and if you were wondering, it it all Circa 1983 Campagnolo SR.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Harry Quinn posted by desmo on 10/29/2001 at 1:37:34 AM
Hey, I'm impressed you can ride parallel 75s no handed. It must be in good alignment.

   Harry Quinn posted by John E on 10/29/2001 at 3:08:47 PM
I recall seeing (and admiring) a couple of H.Q. frames in the late 1970s, but I have never ridden one. How would you compare it with a Ron Cooper, which I think also tended to use steep criterium angles?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Harry Quinn posted by Jeff on 10/29/2001 at 9:59:22 PM
I may be lying at the 75 degrees, I have no way of knowing if it is 74.5 or 75. Either way you cannot pedal and turn as the toe clip overlaps the path of the front wheel, and the wheelbase is only 37 1/2. I'm amazed at the stabitlity of the frame. I had Fastabs cycles in Texas "look at" it after purchase. It had a dent from swinging handlebars in the top tube, which was minor and was filled with silver solder as opposed to replacing the tube entirely, Tom Hayden their frame builder also noted that the seat tube had been elongated with a Park stand which I had never noticed. His conclusion was that it was sound for such radical geometry both in design and building. I had a set of short forks made and ran a 21 inch radially spoked wheel on it for time trials. Nuts? yep a little but aren't we all.

   wheelbase posted by John E on 10/29/2001 at 11:20:29 PM
That is one short wheelbase! My Bianchi's is 99cm = 39", and my toes do clear the front wheel. By the way, after the Consumer Product Safety Commission went hog-wild with regulations during the bike boom, did anyone still make bikes with any significant toe overlap of the front wheel?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Harry Quinn posted by Warren M on 11/5/2001 at 9:51:59 AM
There is a 7 page feature about harry Quinn Cycles in the book 'The Custom Bicycle' 1979, MJ Kolin and DM DeLaRosa. I had a quinn in the late 70's, the only thing I remember about it is that it had fastback seat stays. I had it repainted, and sent away about a days wages to Harry Quinn in England for some new decals. When they arrived here in Australia, they were folded up inside an envelope, and unusable! So much for professional service.

Warren Meade

AGE / VALUE:   1950 columbia tourist posted by: laurie on 10/28/2001 at 7:40:43 PM
I have a 1950 columbis tourist in beautiful condition. anyone have any idea if this is a collectible bike and also idea of value? any input would be appreciated. thanks

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hopper made by Barton on Humber posted by: Phil on 10/27/2001 at 10:29:09 PM
I've got an old english touring bike for which the
frame indicates it is a Hopper made by Barton on Humber

The person I got this bike from 30 years ago told me
never to sell which I plan to comply with. I am
just interested in the history behind this bike as it
was one of the earliest lightweights sold apparently.

It weighs 22.5 lbs with the book rack on the back and
tire pump.

And information would be appreciated.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Hopper made by Barton on Humber posted by Peter on 10/28/2001 at 6:56:46 AM
There are 4 websites that will be helpful.
www.classicrendezvous.com/British/E_Hopper_Fact_37.htm has some background information.
At www.geocities.com/Pentagon/7745/tom/ELSWICK there is an amusing account of a young boy who went to work in the Elswick factory at Barton when he left school - don't forget to read part 2 using the link.
Sheldon has a page on his Elswick Hopper at www.sheldonbrown.com/elswick.
Some history of the company can be found at www.falcolncycles.co.uk

I have what I believe to be a 1930 ish frame made at the Elswick Hopper factory at Barton, but information is hard to find. I also recently met a man who worked in the factory from 1933 to the mid 60s, but his recollection of the various models is vague. I believe someone from the Barton Wheelers Cycling club is writing a history, but I haven't found them yet. An Elswick lightweight frame on ebay recently failed to attract a single bid.

MISC:   Derailer hanger "ears"; designed for trouble posted by: Jonathan on 10/27/2001 at 7:22:33 PM
I know these things evolved to make interchanges of rerailers possible, but they are a weak solution at best. The axles seem to get dangerously close to the dropout openning. This seems to be caused by the screw/plate guide and the shallow depth of the grooved part of the "ear". I just finished "fixing" a bike
that an unsuspecting rider crashed as a result of the axle
climbing out of the dropout. It was an instant disaster.
Having been 10 yards away, I saw the whole event in technicolor and sound. Man! What a stop. Fortunately, the athleticism of the rider and luck
saved the rider; except for a few bruises and minor roadrash. The bike had a potato-chip rearwheel; bent dropout (large gap); damaged brake; broken cage with blown jockeywheel and lots of paint gone from the chainstays. The "ear" was fine. I got the wheel back on, but had to remove the rear brake to keep from
rubbing; broke the chain and made the bike a coaster for the 3 mile trip back to the trucks. Last night, I picked up the bike and started to fix it up with a new rear wheel and rerailer.
I saw what the problem was right away. The "ear" wouldn't let the axle slide far enough into the dropout to be safe. I ground about 1/4 in. out of the gullet and refit it. Then, took it off to file the screw
tab/holder for 1/16 in. Finally, the derailer, wheel and skewer fit decent enough, but not perfect.
I am going to design a tab that replaces this imbecilic component. Of course, the brazing of a tab makes the most sense, as I've read about in an earlier post. If you have bikes with "ears", check that clearance and it is my plan to keep a rat-tailed bastard file in my
tool kit.

   RE:MISC:   Derailer hanger posted by Steven on 10/28/2001 at 3:54:00 PM
You are right about these 'ears' being poor substitutes for a braze-on. Were bicycles not incorrectly considered as toys instead of the transportation mode which they are, some body like the NHTSA would likely have outlawed these 'ears' a long time ago. No bike built in the last 30 years with one of these bolt-on hangers is worth keeping. With the low price of used bicycles, you should stop wasting time and money trying to right something that was born wrong. Look for a 70's or 80's bicycle with a brazed-on hanger and alloy rims. It will almost certainly be an improvement.

   Derailler hanger posted by John E on 10/28/2001 at 9:01:25 PM
Frames without integral derailleur hangers are good candidates for fixed-gear or hub gear conversion.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Derailer hanger posted by Jonathan on 10/28/2001 at 10:07:34 PM
True except for three things. One, there are lots of medium
quality bikes that sport the "ear" feature. The dept.store
stamped steel heavy, unresponsive bikes also had "ears". Those
are not worth time, unless they have some special prominance to collecters. This bike
has 4130 main, alloys and Shimano AR derailers; Sugino cranks and descent
alloy brakes. The craftsmanship is quite good. Probably built by
Giant, as it is Schwinn made-in-Taiwan. Weight is 26 pounds. Two, the pre-bike boom
road bikes seem to have this feature which seems inconsistent with their overall
quality, aside from the hefty framework. I think the bike builders, who knew how to
make a good bike, left it up to the stores and shops to fit
components for the consumer. The "ear" was a convenient way to allow universal
attachment for rear derailers. There seems IMHO no reason for the "ear" not to
work if it's designed properly. This bike is a Schwinn Traveler 12 sp.
I have a Schwinn World 12 sp. that's comparable, but without the 4130 main, and the
"ear" seems to be safely attached. What I'm saying is that
the frame-maker may have had little control over the inclusion of removable
tabs on the bikes it made, even though the overall quality is quite good.
Three, the Dept. bikes today may not have the "ear", but I'd match
a '60-'70's road bike from a quality manufacturer to them any day.
IMHO, of course.

   Derailleur hanger posted by John E on 10/29/2001 at 3:16:58 PM
I should have clarified my position, Jonathan -- "OLDER road bikes without integral hangers make good fixed-gear and Nexus conversion candidates." I strongly concur with your closing opinion; for general-purpose and long-distance recreational or transportation cycling, I would match a high-quality 1960-to-mid-1980s moly steel road frame against anything. (I own three, from 1960, 1980, and 1982.)

   RE:fixed gear or internal hub posted by Jonathan on 10/30/2001 at 3:34:28 AM
Nice to know that eared bikes have a "raison d'etra" in our
busy bike world. Based upon info which came through in an earlier post, I'm fitting up a Le Tour II (with ear) into a fixed gear bike using a set of 165mm cranks off a Centurian. Good advice!
I would have crashed before fiduring that one out myself.
The World is my candidate for internal-hub convert. Do I need to lace the spokes
onto a 27 or 700 rim. I never tried a 26 in. wheel on a 27
in. bike. One thing that seems to work great, is 28 inch wheels fitted onto my
'60's Bottechia 10 speed tourer. Wow, is all I can say about that.
It really gets going on my flatland commute. The frame is very stiff and the
forks have no trouble holding tight gainst the added torques
on the axle junction. The 28x1 5/8 tires fit on ETRTO (Belgium) 622x17 Alesa-Alloy
rims with Shimano Exage hubs. Heck, there's even room for the fenders.
Only problem was a squeaky left crank arm (cottered), which was easily fixed with
a new 9.5mm pin. I think the added force on the peddling caused the problem.
The Suntour Cyclone works great as a replacement for the
original worn out derailer. The rooster-tail was impressive
during the run on wet roads, today.

   26" vs 27" wheels posted by John E on 10/30/2001 at 3:47:30 AM
If you are using a rear caliper brake (as opposed to a disc brake or a coaster brake), its effectiveness will decrease with decreasing wheel size. Most frame/brake combinations designed for 27", or even 700C, wheels cannot accommodate 26" wheels, but if you had a fairly close-clearance frame and long-reach brakes, and perhaps a drop bolt, you might be able to make it work.

The SunTour Cyclones, Superbes, and XC-x000's are still among my favorite derailers.

   RE:26 posted by Jonathan on 10/30/2001 at 4:24:41 AM
In that case, then I think there is a chance with a Raleigh
Gran Prix from the late '60s (WL series) with tight frame clearance. A set of
Weinmann 999's that are "seal-a-mealed" in a spares box in the back of the garage
might do it. Thanks for the data on that plan...another useful bit of time-saving advice.

AGE / VALUE:   LAMPERT posted by: allan on 10/27/2001 at 5:02:52 PM
n picked up a lampert lightweight bike wuld like to find out some info on it anyone know anything about this company?thanks AJ

   do you mean Lambert/Viscount? posted by John E on 10/27/2001 at 10:43:21 PM
There is some information on the early 1970s British Lambert/Viscount "aerospace" bikes in "The Dancing Chain." Steerer tube / fork crown separation failures killed the company. Make sure your specimen has the replacement forks, rather than the original "forks of death."

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   LAMPERT posted by Walter on 10/28/2001 at 1:38:36 AM
Sheldon Brown (sheldonbrown.com) of Harris Cyclery has an article about Lambert/Viscount. The original aluminum fork was a safety issue and if your bike has it you might consider replacement but keep the original.

I had a friend who rode Viscounts in the late 70s. They were a 21-22lb bike (about as light as it got back then) that you could afford. I think their top of the line was under 500$ when the top Euros were about $1K (times have changed, haven't they?). Truth be told the SunTour they came with shifted quite well when compared with Campy N Record. Neat bike, enjoy it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   LAMPERT posted by Walter on 10/28/2001 at 1:45:02 AM
Here's the url http://sheldonbrown.com/lambert.html

Pretty model in the picture but I'm not sure those are really cycling shoes. :)

MISC:   Torn cuffs posted by: DBean on 10/27/2001 at 1:03:51 PM
Are crank cotters always mounted so the "catchier" (nut) side snags your pants? Due to misanthropic factory workers?

   RE:MISC:   Torn cuffs posted by Warren on 10/27/2001 at 5:39:41 PM
I think you just have to make certain they are inserted "opposite" to each other....therefore you should be able to orient the pins so that they never catch your cuff.

   cotter orientation posted by John E on 10/27/2001 at 10:36:56 PM
The cotters hold the cranks' horizontal and rotational orientation and they transmit drive torque from the left crank to the right crank/spider/chainring assembly. The first purpose requires that the cotters enter from opposite directions, as Warren noted, whereas the second ideally would require that both enter from the bottom when the cranks are in left-foward/right-back orientation. Because this would cause improper crank alignment, only one cotter can transmit torque on its broader, stronger end. But which one? Since the most likely failure point on a steel cottered crankset is the upper cotter eye of the left crank (when in left pedal forward position), the cotters should be driven in from the top surface of each crank when its pedal is in its rearward position.

You should be able to prevent trouser snags by wrapping your lower pantlegs around your calves before slipping on your trouser hoops.

   RE:cotter orientation/shear pins posted by Warren on 10/27/2001 at 11:54:15 PM
I never thought about the orientation with respect to the transfer of power to the drivetrain. This likely explains why the left crankarm pin always fails on my one speed Supercycle/Raleigh roadster. You learn something everyday. Thanks John.

Here's something back although I think we covered it once before. They are not cotter pins...they are shear pins. We all know what cotter pins really look like...impress your friends with your breadth of bike knowledge! I suspect we will slip back into using the wrong term again...

   cotter/shear pins posted by John E on 10/28/2001 at 2:22:59 AM
> They are not cotter pins...they are shear pins.

Excellent, Walter. True automotive-style cotter pins are designed to transmit only enough torque to keep bearing retaining nuts from turning. Someone ought to tell Sheldon, who is usually a stickler for correct terminology.

   oops, that's "Warren," not "Walter" posted by John E on 10/28/2001 at 2:24:09 AM
Sorry -- I meant to write, "Warren."

   RE:MISC:   Torn cuffs posted by DBean on 10/28/2001 at 1:54:26 PM
John E: I suppose the fat end of the cotter is stronger than the threaded end, but it sure isn't clear to me why the left arm should be more prone to failure than the right.

   Right versus Left arm failure posted by Steven on 10/28/2001 at 4:09:05 PM
I suppose it is because the right arm cannot flex as much as the left under pressure. The chainring which is unitary with the right arm is under counterstress from the chain when the rider is exerting force on the drivetrain. This means that the enegry exerted by the rider does not go directly in the direction of application of the riders feet. There is a force that matches the rider's but also a counterforce of the chain which is strictly fore-aft (i.e. the direction of the pin) This means that only part of the right pin's stress reflects the rider's. On the left, all energy going into the pedal is directly exerted on the arm, ergo, more failures. This also explains why a good rider, who is able to 'draw' perfect pedal circles, rarely has problems with failures.

   RE:Keeping pants cuffs from tearing posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 10/28/2001 at 5:29:04 PM
I use these velcro reflective bands around my pant cuffs or the origonal "Terry's Trouserbands" but these are not reflective.

   RE:RE:Keeping pants cuffs from tearing posted by JimW. on 10/28/2001 at 6:47:45 PM
I use a military uniform accessory item called a "blousing band", "blouser", or "blousing garter", depending on where I get them. They're at military surplus stores, and cost about a dollar a pair. They're like miniature olive drab bungee cords, with hooks. They're used to secure turned under trouser cuffs at the top of combat boots. They don't reflect light, but they're cheap enough to keep lots on hand. Once you have a supply of them on hand, you'll find dozens of uses for them.

   left crank failure posted by John E on 10/28/2001 at 9:16:59 PM
If the spider is integral with the right crank, it can reinforce the crank near the cotter eye. In addition, yes, the cotter eye of the left crank is subject to lateral torque loading during the downstroke. My personal experience: I have broken one left crank at the cotter eye, while starting across 8-lane Wilshire Blvd. in west Los Angeles. Fortunately, I was able to ride across the intersection and the rest of the way home with my cranks in a 155/205 degree orientation. I replaced these Agrati steel cranks with first-generation aluminum Sugino Mighty Compes, and snapped the left crank at the pedal eye 15 years later, on an out-of-saddle climb up a 12-percent grade. I am hard on cranks because I love hills, have done lots of out-of-saddle work, and admittedly do not pedal as smoothly as more coordinated cyclists.

AGE / VALUE:   1950's Humber posted by: Tim on 10/25/2001 at 1:36:16 AM
Does anyone have any idea what the value on a 1950's Humber bicycle would be?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1950's Humber posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 10/26/2001 at 3:05:48 PM
Please describe this. What size wheels, cable or rod brake, mens or ladies, what size frame, condition, accesories, bell, rack,lights, color, what does the rear 3 speed hub say on it? There is a date on the outer shell of the hub wipe away any oil with a rag and stamped on this is a date like 5 58 or whatever. All this can help identify it.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   more miles on my Peugeot? posted by: Don on 10/24/2001 at 8:03:44 PM
Since it looks as if I will have to get more miles out of my old 12 speed Reynolds Peugeot, I was thinking of replacing the Rigida rims to breathe some new life into the bike. Should I find some more hubs and freewheel and keep the old wheels intact to put back original later or lace some new rims into my still good Maillards? Where could I find some 126 hubs anyway? Thanks so much for your responses.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   more miles on my Peugeot? posted by Oscar on 10/25/2001 at 2:03:02 AM
Hubs can be relaced onto new rims. New 126mm (6-speed freewheel hubs) can be hard to find. If your Maillards are in good shape, keep using them.

   more miles on my Peugeot? posted by John E on 10/26/2001 at 1:18:52 PM
The frameset is by far the best part (the only good part?) of a Peugeot. (I have owned three.) Scrounge eBay and yard sales for an old-but-low-mileage wheelset with a 126mm rear axle width, spin on a 7-speed freewheel from eBay, and you're good for another 20K-40K miles.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   more miles on my Peugeot? posted by T.S. on 10/26/2001 at 5:42:46 PM
If one is able to canvas different bicycle shops you might be surprised by what N.O.S. stock they may have. I suggest it be done in person. Choose a day when the shops are not busy. They are usually glad to get rid of the stuff at a reasonable price. I found a set of 126 mm N.O.S. Campagnolo Record hubs that way, and they are now on my PX-10 (lucky find). I found a set of N.O.S. high flange Normandy Hubs by the same method and used them in a spare set of wheels. We used the same hubs twenty five years ago in "club wheels". They are reasonably light,sturdy,very cheap in price, and Schwinn Approved!

AGE / VALUE:   1947 Wald posted by: Brad on 10/24/2001 at 2:48:23 AM
I recently purchased an old bike and the only name I can find is Wald which is located on the pedals and a front handle bar mounted basket. It is a ladies bike with a horn button on the "gas tank" facing up rather than sideways like I see on most other bikes with a built in horn. Any suggestions on finding the maker of this bike if there was no Wald bike maker?
Thanks, Brad

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1947 Wald posted by Wings on 10/24/2001 at 5:40:36 AM
Wald makes pedals and racks in addition to other parts. Describe the frame. Where is the serial number and what is it? Color? Pin striping? What do the rims say on them, and what are they like? What size tire? What name is on the hubs? Gears? What type of brake? Give more information! The welds where parts of the frame come together can give a clue. The type of chain ring that is used -- the pattern -- can be of some help!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1947 Wald posted by sam on 10/25/2001 at 1:13:31 AM
Several of the girls horn tanks had the horn button on top--my 50 murray does.

AGE / VALUE:   late 1940s Benotto w/ Cambio Corsa posted by: John E on 10/23/2001 at 7:12:11 PM
If you are unfamiliar with the Campy Cambio Corsa rear derailleur ("when your tool is a hammer [in this case, quick release hub patent], every problem [including gear changing] looks like a nail"), check out:


The price is $1000+ and counting ...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   late 1940s Benotto w/ Cambio Corsa posted by Fred on 10/24/2001 at 3:18:04 PM
The spray can silver paint doesn't hide what looks like a lot of rust on this bike. If the inside of the tubes are rusted like the external surfaces, I don't think I would risk a test ride or my money without inspecting the piece very carefully.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   late 1940s Benotto w/ Cambio Corsa posted by Ray on 10/24/2001 at 9:15:07 PM
I saw this bike at T-Town. Yes it is rough but still a real neat bike. The Cambio Corsa is the first Campy derailleur system and pretty archiac by todays standards. There are several in the hobby who have never even seen one of these. There are also folks who have seen them and do not believe they will even work. If you look closely you will see two levers on the seat stay. The top lever opens the hub quick release so you can use the second lever to shift to a different gear. This is done by peddeling backwards as the the chain thrower is on the top of the gear not the bottom like today. Once you do this the hub moves into place to take up the chain slack. The rear dropouts have teeth in them to help with this hub movement so it does not drop out of the frame when you open the quick release. Once you shift into the proper gear you then lock the hub quick release back into place and pedal forwards again. A real neat piece of bicycle history here. I wish it were mine. I have a full Cambio Corsa derailleur system with hubs. I just need the frame with the special dropouts to make mine up. BTW, my local bike shop threatened me if I attempted to build up a bike with these as he thinks they are too pretty to ruin by riding and attempting to shift. Good luck to the new owner.

   adapting a frame to Cambio Corsa posted by John E on 10/26/2001 at 7:45:07 PM
Ray -- could one not either cut a series of teeth into the rear dropout of a conventional frame or machine a pair of bolt-on toothed dropout inserts? The latter approach would simultaneously adapt a 126mm frame to the CC's 120mm (?) axle width. I think it would be a blast to convert an old Peugeot UO-8 to Cambio Corsa, particularly if one could find a somewhat rough-looking CC unit at a reasonable price. Even better, obtain (or machine a copy of) the final variant of the CC, which shifts FORWARD from the bottom instead of backward from the top, and build a multispeed fixed-gear bike by locking up an old freewheel.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   late 1940s Benotto w/ Cambio Corsa posted by Steven on 10/26/2001 at 11:19:04 PM
Ray, I can help you if you want to build up a bike with your Corsa gear, as I have a pair of dropouts. I would be more than happy to sell or trade them to you. I also have two bikes with Campagnolo Seatstay gears: a Bianchi with a Parigi-Roubaix gear and a Ciclo Piave with a Corsa gear. I also have an Umberto Dei with lovely ash rims and a first generation Vittoria Margherita gear (ie the one without the chainstay clappers.) At the right price everything is available.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   late 1940s Benotto w/ Cambio Corsa posted by Warren on 10/27/2001 at 1:23:47 AM
I have a 1940's Olmo with Corsa gears. It has the 'touring' version, where the handles extend up the seat stay a couple of inches further than the more common 'racing' version. The fixed gear conversion would not work, because when you have the quick release open to effect the change, the wheel would tend to pop out of the frame if you put any pressure on the pedals. As far as I can see, you must have a freewheel cluster with these gears.

Warren Meade

AGE / VALUE:   a new price record, I think posted by: John E on 10/23/2001 at 4:58:59 PM
Sorry to start a new thread, but that early 1960s Peugeot PX-10 on eBay just went for $7100! (The currency is indeed USD, not FF. See my earlier post for the item number.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a new price record, I think posted by Walter on 10/23/2001 at 10:54:18 PM
Unbelievable! I don't get it. Cinellis don't sell for that. That Cambio Corsa won't go for that. That Oscar Watsyn 6 Day Racer from the 30s in beautiful shape couldn't draw a $1500 opener. What am I missing?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a new price record, I think posted by Tom on 10/24/2001 at 1:02:30 AM
The high bidders are all from Japan, where do they get all the extra cash. Look at their bid history and see how much they spent in the last few months. Can we say big bucks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a new price record, I think posted by Walter on 10/24/2001 at 1:29:48 AM
I still don't get it. The Watsyn racer I referred to above sorely tempted me and I can't see how it couldn't draw a bid and this PX10 went for that much. The seller said something about an Ideale saddle going for $900. I guess the whole bike would be worth big bucks then but when comparable vintage Cinellis are 2.5-3K I don't see the Peugeot marque drawing that much collector heat.

Obviously, I'm clueless as the reality is right there on eBay. I saw that the winning bidder put in that 7100$ max before the end of the auction. I wonder if he expected to get pushed that high?

   a new price record posted by John E on 10/26/2001 at 1:37:31 PM
There must be something unique about this particular Peugeot. An original, intact Reynolds 531 sticker is indeed a rarity, as these are incredibly (and probably deliberately) fragile. [That very clean mid-1950s Randonneur (apparently not Reynolds 531; same Peugeot decal and colour scheme; suicide shifter) got bids of $500 and $510.] It's a good bet that this PX-10 will be retired to a vault or showroom, rather than ridden to work every day.