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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   3rensho posted by: Gary on 10/4/2001 at 10:26:05 AM
I just purchased a 3rensho for $400 with 80's dura ace components. I noticed that areas where the paint has chipped off are chrome. There is no rust on those areas. By any chance did yoshi konno experiment titanium? Or is this still Ishiwata tubes?

   3rensho posted by John E on 10/4/2001 at 2:34:44 PM
Nice find, Gary! I think it's Ishiwata (Tange?) CrMo covered with very high-quality chrome (nickel?) plating.

AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by: RW B. on 10/3/2001 at 8:36:07 PM
Hi all, I have a question about a vintage Schwinn. The frame has a seat tube that wraps around the rear wheel. I thought it might be a varsity or something of that ilk, but I didn't remember them doing the wrap-round. It has Schwinn approved early suntour on it. It appears to be from the late sixties or so. Any Ideas? Thanks, RW

   What S/N? posted by John E on 10/3/2001 at 8:56:26 PM
It sounds Japanese to me. (I say that only because I have seen wraparound seat stays only on Raleighs and Nishikis.) What is the serial number, and where is it located? Is there a 4-digit date code stamped into the head badge?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by Kevin K on 10/4/2001 at 2:33:26 AM
Hi. John, wasn't there a Paramount frame built where the seat tube was shaped/bent around the rear wheel like it is on the 74-75 Schwinn Sprint. RWB. What style headbadge does the bike have? Round or oval shaped? Are the rear dropouts stamped steel or forged? Kevin K

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by RW B on 10/4/2001 at 3:11:06 AM
Yes, there is a paramount tandem with the wrap- round seat tube (We have one, rides nice) You think this may be a mid '70s Sprint?, that jives with the some of the faded (really faded ) lettering that I was trying to make out. I'm guessing this may not be a rarity, or is it? Thanks for the reply,

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by RW B on 10/4/2001 at 3:15:18 AM
The Head badge is oval, the dropouts I don't know at the moment, bike is at my shop. I was just wondering if this is a bike I should spend much time or money on refurbishing.RW

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by Oscar on 10/4/2001 at 3:53:15 AM
From what I know, Schwinn Sprints with the bent seat tube were only made in 73 or 74, and I've only seen blue ones. Electroforged Schwinn 10-speeds after 1968 are a dime a dozen, but yours is unusual, and deserves a bath and a good home.

   oops -- he did say seat tube! posted by John E on 10/4/2001 at 4:15:23 AM
Sorry, I read "wraparound seat tube" in the original post and mentally jumped to "wraparound seat stay." You guys are right -- Schwinn made close-coupled frames with curvy seat tubes during the mid-1970s.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What Model posted by Keith on 10/4/2001 at 3:33:42 PM
The former owner of our great late old-time LBS has a Paramount with the seat tube you describe. It is a Chicago (cage) 70s model, and has chromed Nervex Lugs. I'd think if yours is a Paramount, however, you'd recognize it right away -- Nervex, Paramount headbadge, or at least the Paramount serial number on the rear dropout. Although an oddity, and rare, I don't know that that along makes it desirable or valuable, even if it's a Paramount.

AGE / VALUE:   mixte Peugeots posted by: jonathan on 10/3/2001 at 4:19:45 AM
Just trying to learn about the 2 Peugeot mixte frame bikes that I have in a shed.
They are '60 vintage, although I can't find out much. One has a rediculous revited plate with the serial number on the BB. I wondering if they are worth the effort to restore.
The frames are excellent. Running gear is probably OK, but they have been sitting around. Nothing fancy. The steel is their
version of 2030 (Carbolite). What is the general view of these types of bikes?
If they are real 'dogs'. I'd like to free up some space for more acquisitions...
like a Speedster or two. Thanks for any knowledge/wisdom that you feel generous enough to provide.
The bikes are curious attractions to me at this point.

   mixte Peugeots posted by John E on 10/3/2001 at 2:38:29 PM
Do the frames have traditional lugwork, consistent with a pre-1975 vintage? If so, they are the UO-18 unisex version of the venerable UO-8. They make great commuters or recreational riders, but will probably never be collectible. Replacement [obsolete] French-standard cranks, pedals, bottom bracket cups, headsets, and seatposts are becoming scarce, and some even have French-threaded rear hubs and freewheels, which are even harder to find in the U.S.

Peugeot insisted on using those riveted serial number plates into the early 1970s, even on PX-10s, when everyone else was permanently stamping serial numbers into the BB shell, head tube, or dropout. The company finally relented during the mid-1970s bike boom, as the theft rate skyrocketed and Peugeots became a favourite target.

One option is to fix up the better of the two specimens and to strip the other one as a parts donor. Do not scrap either frame without saving the BB cups and headset, assuming they are in decent condition. There is some demand for those old Mafac Racer brakes, as well. (I did this to a ca. 1980 Carbolite Peugeot I picked up for $3 at a yard sale, since the frame and fork were very heavily corroded.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   mixte Peugeots posted by Keith on 10/3/2001 at 6:15:38 PM
I don't think they're worth restoration, as I'd use that term, but the nicer of the two would, as John suggests, be worth fixing up as a usable bike, not a vintage collectable. Carbolite is plain carbon steel. By the mid-70s, a some brands were making fancy stickers for their otherwise plain Jane steel to make it seem like something more special than it was (like Raleigh 1020, etc.).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   mixte Peugeots posted by jonathan on 10/5/2001 at 5:41:28 AM
I get so much from your comments and insights. The bicycle books offer limited insight and only a
fraction of the complexity that exists in the long history of cycling. They help with general
information and specifics for a narrow selection of makes and types. However, nothing compares
to a thorough distillation of the available facts on all bikes that one can get from experts. That
said, thanks again.
The two Peugeot mixtes have significant differences. One has no lugs, save for a reinforced
end on the seat tube; alikened to a "collar" of sorts, right at the terminal end that connects the seat
stem. The chainwheel looks like stamped steel with alloy crank-arms labeled "S" and "France".
The derailers are Shimano fair quality with the stupid (IMHO) "drop ear" attachment feature. This
would be indicative of lower foodchain position, based on what I've learned, here. The other bike
is considerably fancier than it's Dodge Dart cousin. It has fancy lugs and chromed fork-ends and
Campy dropouts. All the components are labeled "Peugeot". The seat tube has a checkered
pattern decal and the words "Record De Monde" along with a griffon graphic. The color is blue.
I guess I can assume that the fancy one is better, but I haven't ridden it. The plain bike rides like a
softer version of my UO-8 which has a great balance at slow speed. For a cheap bike, it is very
well balanced. Now, I need to ride the fancier one to finalize my decision. Your comments on the
BB's are interesting and I won't dump them. I had no idea they could be valuable.
I am really trying to find out what caused the mixte frame to evolve and is it a "dead end" on the
evolutionary path of the bike? What (if any) advantages might it have. I see very few mixtes out
on the roads and paths; none in the bike shops. Would the type be good for fully loaded touring? I
know they're not girl-bikes, but there seems to be that stigma. If they are a better frame for a
special purpose, I wouldn't care if it has that stigma or not. I think they are somewhat elegant in
the frame geometry... a sleek looking line from front to rear.

   mixte Peugeots posted by John E on 10/5/2001 at 9:23:44 PM
The lugless mixte is a low-end late 1970s/early 1980s Carbolite frame -- soft, generic carbon steel. (Careful -- sometime in the late 1970s, Peugeot changed over from French to Swiss BB threading -- if your fixed BB cup does not seem to want to unscrew anti-clockwise, carefully try going clockwise.) If the other frame indeed has Campy dropouts, including an integral derailleur hanger, then it is a (European?) model which I have never encountered, and may have Reynolds 531 downtube and seattube. (A PR10, PKN10, PY10, or PX10 mixte ... ? The ubiquitous UO-18 mixte had exactly the same dropouts, graphics, and components as the UO-8.) Send an email of inquiry to the PX10 website, which you can find from Sheldonbrown.com or from classicrendezvous.com.

Mixtes were far more popular in Europe, where they truly were perceived as unisex, than in the U.S. I took graduate Thermodynamics/Statistical Physics from a visiting French professor, who commuted to UCLA on a Motobecane mixte. What killed them off was the public's switch from road bikes to mountain bikes and hybrids, coupled with the popularization of sloping top tubes. Mixtes are vastly superior to the step-through frames used in Japan and on "girls' bikes."

WANTED:   Info on a specific 1977 racing bike posted by: Shawna on 10/3/2001 at 3:29:36 AM
I need some info on a 1997 Bassett(don't know if that's the correct spelling)Racing Bike. There were only 8 made and I have #5. If anybody knows what I'm talking about please let me know.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Frame dings? posted by: DBean on 10/2/2001 at 9:02:26 PM
How important are small dings in [531 e.g.] butted frame tubes? Is there a serious danger of the frame collapsing like a beer can?

     Frame dings? posted by John E on 10/2/2001 at 11:44:53 PM
I ride old, dinged-up frames all the time, and worry much more about corrosion or, worse, metal fatigue in the aluminum components.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Frame dings? posted by Keith on 10/3/2001 at 6:19:26 PM
As usual, John is absolutely right. Folds, creases, & cracks are more significant. The places to watch out for are the down and top tube where they join the headlugs, and the chainstays where they join the bottom bracket shell. Little pea sized dings in the middle of a tube are no big deal.

MISC:   ride the river walk this sun posted by: rickey on 10/2/2001 at 7:42:05 PM
ride our bikes this sunday all ages he's & she's slow fast come one come all meet here at KNOWLES BICYCLE SHOP valley al. convoy to the trail -9am-10am sun.334-756-7561

WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by: Jeff on 10/2/2001 at 6:52:55 PM
Dang what the H happened to that winter cycling topic?????

For reasons I won't get into here, I'm going to be on a bicycle through the winter here in MN. Luckily my job is only a 5 mile trip one way, but I want to bike it, not walk it......

   RE:WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by rickey on 10/3/2001 at 12:15:40 AM
weride@hotmail.com all year round rain sleet or snow ya east central ala.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by Oscar on 10/3/2001 at 4:26:39 AM
Wide tires, fenders, layers, grow a beard.

   RE:WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by Wings on 10/3/2001 at 7:46:00 AM
Last winter we had a comment from a team member in Wisconsin that indicated that he rode several bikes that allowed him to ride in slush, glaze, snow, and rain. Each bike was equipped with the tires and additional features that did the job. Keep asking and he may reply!

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by Keith on 10/3/2001 at 9:17:19 PM
ditto plus lights.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Winter Cycling posted by Bill Putnam on 10/4/2001 at 10:27:18 PM
You might check out http://www.enteract.com/'icebike/
This has a lot of information. I have a couple different
bikes I ride in the winter depending on road conditions-
from a slick tired 5 speed internal hub bike to a bike
with 700X35 Nokian studded tires when it's icy. I ride
year round in Madison, Wisconsin. Being visible and
predictable is important for safety in traffic. Both
bike lighting and reflective/bright clothing help.

MISC:   to lazy maby are you posted by: rickey on 10/2/2001 at 5:10:38 PM
well i took the time to post on several sites. let's ride the silver comet 9-30-01 well the weather was great we rode haha where were you all piled up in bead ya just being LAZY ..I allready know almost every one has a bike of course every one here has one or more especialle here, BUT DO YOU RIDE.you can get up and just say i will ride this sunday go for it i'll meet this group of people in VALLEY al. this or any sunday AT KNOWLES BICYCLE SHOP U.S.HWY 29 VALLEY AL.ONE HR. FROM MONTGOMERY--30-40-MIN.FROM COLUMBUS--ONE HR.FROM ATLANTA call 334-756-7561-mon-sat 9am-8pmthis sunday we will ride the river walk in columbus ga. all ages welcome so get on your bikes & ride...

   RE:MISC:   to lazy maby are you posted by kEITH on 10/2/2001 at 6:12:19 PM
hell Fire! I rode 105 miles through the foothills of the Appalachians on Sunday, and that was after doing 110 on Saturday. sHOOT, i clumb some BIG succers! dANG!

   RE:RE:MISC:   to lazy maby are you posted by rickey on 10/2/2001 at 7:18:53 PM
we din't get big miles but weride@hotmail.com come ride with us. join us this sunday fo the river walk in columbus ga. here at 9am-10am sun. KNOWLES BICYCLE SHOP valley al.just off I 85

MISC:   to lazy maby are you posted by: rickey on 10/2/2001 at 5:10:38 PM
well i took the time to post on several sites. let's ride the silver comet 9-30-01 well the weather was great we rode haha where were you all piled up in bead ya just being LAZY ..I allready know almost every one has a bike of course every one here has one or more especialle here, BUT DO YOU RIDE.you can get up and just say i will ride this sunday go for it i'll meet this group of people in VALLEY al. this or any sunday AT KNOWLES BICYCLE SHOP U.S.HWY 29 VALLEY AL.ONE HR. FROM MONTGOMERY--30-40-MIN.FROM COLUMBUS--ONE HR.FROM ATLANTA call 334-756-7561-mon-sat 9am-8pmthis sunday we will ride the river walk in columbus ga. all ages welcome so get on your bikes & ride...

AGE / VALUE:   Old Bianchi posted by: Elvis on 10/2/2001 at 6:51:50 AM
Hi! I just got this old Bianchi at a yard sale. I posted earlier about the components and got a helpful response. But I am also curious as to the age/value of the bicycle. The Valentino Extra rear shifter was apparently put on the low end models. I know new Bianchis are costly, but does anyone have an idea what this one is worth or how old it is? It's a very awesome blue color with red decals on the seat tube and down tube, and the bianchi crest on the tube. It's got centerpull brakes which make me think 1960's, and wide-flange hubs with quick release axles. I'm just curious about how old it is, and also if I overpaid. There was a light blue Raliegh Record Ace there, too; would I have been better having spent my $14 on that? Just wonderin'.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Bianchi posted by Brian L. on 10/2/2001 at 7:04:37 AM
For those prices, you should have bought both!

   Raleigh Record posted by John E on 10/2/2001 at 2:28:28 PM
The Record was the bottom of the Raleigh line. I cannot identify the model of your Bianchi, but it is at least as good as the Record, and possibly significantly better.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Bianchi posted by Keith on 10/2/2001 at 6:03:16 PM
The Record Ace model could be a top-end bike or a low-end bike. Go to the Retro Raleigh site (sorry, don't have address handy) for the scoop. Although Valentino stuff was stamped steel and bottom line for Campy, I think it's worth preserving. It has the same brass busshings as a Nouvo Record and will outlast the Simplex, Huret, and even the Suntour from the same era. The push-rod front leaves a lot to be desired but it's usable.

   RetroRaleighs -- try this URL posted by John E on 10/2/2001 at 7:58:05 PM
Reto Raleighs url: http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/

   RE: Replies to my  Old Bianchi post posted by Elvis on 10/2/2001 at 8:00:48 PM
Thanks very much! I'm glad I didn't buy a dud. As to the Valentino being low-end Campagnolo, I had suspected as much, but it works good and as this is the first Bianchi I've owned [though I've always wanted one but could pay the $1,000 price tag for a new one]I want to take good care to keep it original. I already fixed the front wheel rather than replace it cause I wanted to keep the wide-flange hubs. Thanks very much for responding!

    Bianchi posted by John E on 10/3/2001 at 2:47:35 PM
My first 10-speed was a bottom-of-the-line 1962 Bianchi. I now have a near-top-of-the-line 1982 Bianchi. In ride quality and workmanship, each was/is at or near the top of its respective price class.

   RE: Bianchi posted by rickey on 10/4/2001 at 11:28:19 PM

AGE / VALUE:   bicycle races posted by: sam on 10/1/2001 at 2:56:58 PM
Want some idea of what a bicycle race is like-- ebay #1010473826 I really like the detail photo---sam

AGE / VALUE:   scheeren handlebar stems posted by: paul patzkowsky on 10/1/2001 at 12:07:16 PM
I have a scheeren handlebar stem which I acquired in the mid 70's. It has never been used but is scuffed from being stored loose in a box of parts. Does anyone know anything about the company and the potential value of the piece?

AGE / VALUE:   John Deere posted by: John B. on 9/30/2001 at 9:51:21 PM
Picked up a J.D. 3-speed lightweight, men's, S.N. 1227007. Bike appears to be all original, medium metallic blue color. Pretty good shape. I'm finding out the blue ones are relatively rare, but still would like an opinion on value and if anyone knows how to date this one. Thanx.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   John Deere posted by Keith on 10/2/2001 at 5:55:47 PM
There's at least one guy in teh world who specializes in collecting these. I'vwe seen several up close and I'm not sure what the point is, as I'd place it well below the English 3-speeds in terms of quality. You might run it by the English Roadster folks.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rene Herse. posted by: clint on 9/30/2001 at 8:20:21 PM
I picked up an old rene herse road bike out of the basement of an old bike shop. I was looking for parts, and the guy sold me the whole thing for cheap. I didn't know what it was until I cleaned it up from years of storage, and did a little research. There is absolutely no rust and the frame is in great shape other than a few minor paint chips. It has old stronglite cranks, and I believe the original brakes. Deraileurs and wheels are all newer campy. Just seeing if anyone has any idea about getting parts and doing somewhat of a restoration on this beauty? I know they are highly sought after in their original form.

thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rene Herse. posted by Warren on 9/30/2001 at 11:15:48 PM
Oh my oh my...there are many collectors of these bikes and some shops that can help you will period and expensive parts. Well worth it...Herse bikes are the Holy Grails of french bike afficionados. (and Japanese buyers)

One store that just helped to complete a Herse restoration for Douglas Brooks is Bicycle Specialties in Toronto at (416) 423-0456. They do paint, framework, decals, custom chrome racks in the french style. They have a decent selection of old parts as well.

E-mail Douglas Brooks at dbrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu

I'm sure he'd be happy to assist you in his restoration having just finished his own. I've chatted with him a couple of times and found him to friendly and helpful.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rene Herse. posted by Keith on 10/3/2001 at 6:22:18 PM
Gasp. Is this true, or is it April 1. If true, a once-in-a-lifetime vintage find.

AGE / VALUE:   KEEP AUSTRO-DAIMLER ORIGINAL? posted by: Dorian Smith on 9/30/2001 at 4:48:39 AM
One of my favorite hobbies is picking up old road bikes from the local St. Vincent DePaul junkyard and turning them into *cross bikes* for friends. I usually just put on straight handlebars and add friction thumbshifters and mountain bike brakes levers.

They are great bikes for beginning cyclists who are annoyed by the road bike riding position and think mountain bikes make them work too hard. And I can supply them for friends and family at a low cost.

However, today I found a Austro-Daimler in pretty good shape. It has a lightweight mixte frame, Shimano 600 components and alloy wheels, and a Brooks saddle. Very little rust. It cleaned up quickly.

Would I be violating the 11th commandment by converting it to a *hybrid*?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   KEEP AUSTRO-DAIMLER ORIGINAL? posted by Warren on 9/30/2001 at 1:46:51 PM
Convert away! Unless it's a special rare frame with collectible components you're not doing any harm. After all...put the dropbars and levers back on and you've got your road bike back. Apart from the occassional Rene Herse or Singer, there are few real collectable mixte frames. I try to keep the components...you will want them again someday. I like the early 600 long reach brakes but hate the cheesy drilled levers.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   KEEP AUSTRO-DAIMLER ORIGINAL? posted by Walter on 9/30/2001 at 4:50:20 PM
I agree. A bicycle that gets used is better than an "original condition" sitting against a garage wall collecting dust.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   KEEP AUSTRO-DAIMLER ORIGINAL? posted by Keith on 10/2/2001 at 6:09:23 PM
I agree completely with Warren, and would add that in general the highest purpose and best value to be derived from most vintage road bikes is to ride them. Only the best of the best (the right year Masi, Cinelli, 50s Bianchis, Herse, Singer, Hetchins and s few others) are worth fussing over, and although your AD is a fine bike, it doen't have the kind of collector appeal that would pay off in end by keeping it original.