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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Misplaced Masi posted by: Walter on 11/12/2001 at 9:14:25 PM
Check out eBay #1029060320. I read the thread below about how best to search eBay and then I found this bike. Look at what area it's selling in! That and a tall frame may explain why a Masi Gran Crit with mostly N. Record ( a few Japanese replacements) is only drawing $250 with only 3 hours to go. Someone might get a bargain.

   clue: search ... bike posted by Gary M on 11/13/2001 at 6:17:07 AM
then look for newly listed. got a Trek 850 like new with a $50 buy it now like that, and other nice things. the dummies dont post them in the bikes or whatever, the trek was in garden stuff

   Rose among thorns posted by Oscar on 11/13/2001 at 3:41:16 PM
That's because it's a garden variety mountain bike.

   garden variety mountain bike posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 8:09:19 PM
... which was planted in the gardening section ...

AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by: Gralyn on 11/12/2001 at 12:19:46 PM
I found a Motobecane: The bike looks pretty straight...no major damage anywhere. The leather saddle is all cracked and cruddy looking on the surface. Of course, the tires are pretty rotten. It has a bit of rust, though...especially on the back rim and even on the spokes....but it may clean-up OK (it would be a lot of work!). I didn't see any other name on the bike, other than "Motobecane" on the tube. Of course, it had it on the head badge. It looked 80's....early 80's. The handbrakes were center pull with dual position levers. It wasn't exceptionally light - and I didn't notice any specific decals about the frame tubing, or anything. It had the cranks with cotter pins. It was 10 speed. The profile of the rims...they were more rounded than most rims....and the sides of the rims (where the brake shoes make contact) had dimples....I suppose for better grip. It was $20. Should I get it? Or should I hold out for a better one....or for more up the line?

   Peugeot UO-8 equivalent posted by John E on 11/12/2001 at 2:28:07 PM
That's a basic, bottom-end Motobecane, about on par with the ubiquitous Peugeot UO-8. I would not pay a dime over $20, and would probably hold out for something better. I picked up something similar at a garage sale for $8, stripped the components I needed, including the Swiss-threaded BB cups and centerpull brakes, and scrapped the frameset. If the leather saddle were salvageable, the story would be considerably different ...

   RE:Peugeot UO-8 equivalent posted by Walter on 11/12/2001 at 9:25:31 PM
I agree with the price estimate. I'd date it to the earlier 70s for what it's worth. In 1978 or so I bought a Moto with the model name of Nomade. It was their bottom of the line. (A fact I was painfully aware of but the 225 or so was all I could come up with). It had a cotterless crank, aluminum arms with steel rings. The crankarms had "motobecane" in raised letters running down it. Steel Rigida rims (replaced for alloys when I was able to afford it). If yours is a cottered crank that model was out of the catalog by the end of the 70s.

   early 1970s posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 2:38:19 AM
Yes, the cottered cranks imply early-to-mid 1970s. In turn, that could mean French instead of Swiss BB threading, making fixed cup removal an interesting trial-and-error process.

   I received $100 for a flawless Made in France model posted by Gary M on 11/13/2001 at 6:21:15 AM
was green, nice leather saddle, actually a beautiful peice, high flange hubs, Q/R f/r, dont remember the compnents, not the bottom of the line but not Campy either. Got $100 for it, and we were both happy. again, it had nice rubber, and was a ride off beauty.

   $100 - tyres, tubes, pads, saddle = $30? posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 2:19:03 PM
Good point! Never underestimate the value of good rubber and leather on an old 10-speed. If a bike is going to need $15 for brakes, $30 for tyres, $10 for tubes, and $20-60 for a saddle, plus $whatever for bearing repacks, wheel trues, new spokes, etc., that's at least a $50 commitment atop the initial investment.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Gralyn on 11/13/2001 at 2:58:33 PM
Does anyone have any experience with these Motobecanes? Anyone????

   Motobecane experience posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 8:07:28 PM
I paid $8 for one, $0 for another. They are decent, competent transportation/recreation 10-speeds, generally a bit better-made and better-finished than their Peugeot equivalents. Because mine were so rusty and because neither fit me properly, I ended up stripping the French- and Swiss-standard components and recycling the frames and forks. If either frame had been in my size and in more trustworthy condition, I would probably have built it up as a commuter. If you have not already done so, read Sheldon's extensive commentary on French bicycles.

   RE:Motobecane experience posted by Gralyn on 11/13/2001 at 8:26:07 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience. It's been a couple of days....the bike may be gone now...if it had been $10 I would have bought it then - but it would have needed a lot of rust cleaning from off the rims. I think I will just wait and see what else I come across. Oh, by-the-way....some of the pricing of these bikes in thrift stores, etc. defies all reasoning. I picked up a nice Schwinn Traveler...very light...It's one of my favorites now...for $8. I saw a Raleigh (it may have even been 24" wheels) in terrible condition, and very heavy - for a lightweight bike - it was crap! They wanted $40 for it! My Ross Gran Tour II was only $10. I picked up a very nice Nishiki 12 speed - for about $13....while at the same time - they had a Schwinn World Sport for $70 in a lot worse condition.

   RE:RE:Motobecane experience posted by Jonathan on 11/19/2001 at 4:29:08 AM
I agree with that bit on the Schwinn Traveler being a more than descent
ride. Mine is a 4130 maintubes and Shimano frictions; light wheels. I'd rate it a "BEST BUY" bike. I don't know what's going on with the thrift-store pricing. It seems to be a trend. I asked this one chap if they were in the "bike storage" business or "bike selling" business.
It's rediculuous. The garage sales and church/school rummage sales are the only
cheap "outlets". Good luck. That Taveler was a particularly good frame IMHO. The stupid "tab" has to be dealt with on the rear derailer, but I'm gonna try a braze on now that I have a little practice on junk frames.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Motobecane posted by Fred on 11/22/2001 at 7:37:54 PM
I bought a nice 26 inch Moto Namade last year for $20 from a dealer. It is a very well built bike and is a very good rider. The first time I rode it felt like I had ridden it forever. On the subject of Schwinn Travelers, my wife rides an 85 mixte frame model that is very well made. See it at: fredhaj.tripod.com.

WANTED:   PEUGEOT BIKE TIRES posted by: William Ballard on 11/12/2001 at 8:40:12 AM
Wanted: Bike Tires to fit Peugeot rims 28 X 1 5/8 X 1 1/8 700 X 28C does anyone know where I can get a pair of these size tires? Any assistance would be appreciated.
Please email me at wballard@cox-internet.com

William Ballard

   RE:WANTED:   PEUGEOT BIKE TIRES posted by Oscar on 11/14/2001 at 12:27:57 AM
Are all those numbers on one tire? If so, the easiest answer is that 700 x 28 tires are available at any bike shop. I don't know what 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8 unless it's an SAE equivelant to the metric tire.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot "regular guy" mixte posted by: Jonathan on 11/12/2001 at 5:15:11 AM
I have a Peugeot mixte frame bike that I took on the bikeway, just to see how it runs. I have 3 mixtes as they were available at rediculously low prices. In fact the nicest one was in a "free" pile at a church rummage sale. It had a tag marked $15. The other 2 were so cheap that I can't recall the prices. At the time, my interest was parts for my regular framed bike projects.
This one that I road had been exposed to the elements, save for a 30gal. plastic bag over the handlebars and seat, for 3 years. After blowing the spider webs and oak leaves out of the wheels and frame, I lubed the hubs, changed the brake pads, and otherwise made it roadworthy. Incredible how little the paint (blue) has faded. The frame is perfect; even the decals are new looking.
It cleaned up great. Specs: the frame is not lugged carbolite 103; weinmann 730 sidepulls; Peugeot "made in france" cranks; Shimano friction, frnt. and rear derailer and steel rim, Maillard "sealed mechanism" sm. flange front wheel and large flange rear wheel. The other 2 bikes are in mint condition hanging in the garage. I couldn't get over how great the bike performed on a 25 miler.
And, this bike almost got junked by me! I was keeping up with bikes that were big bites out of the pocketbook. Handling was superb. The FIRST thing I did was remove that insane kickstand that 1) does such a great job of releasing its hold just as you get 3 feet from the bike, 2) does a great service counting crank rpm with little clicks and 3) provides justification for that 12 in. cresent wrench that's capable of applying enough torque to squash the chainstays. What are those good for? I could see how a dumb design can get to market, but how come nobody has come up with a simple yoke that provides three-point attachment? The brand has been around for years; and they make a flimsier-than-flimsy rack that does a good job of scraping paint off the seat stays while it rattles around trying to apply your rear brakes!
These bikes are waiting to be discovered, here. Any way to date the Peugeots?
Needless to say, I'm taking the bike to work for a while. A real discovery for me. How come they are not spotted on the roads more than rare sightings?
I mean, how can they stay in business?

   Peugeot posted by John E on 11/12/2001 at 2:41:31 PM
Most European bikes are tough to date. Try the PX-10 website (via sheldonbrown.com or classicrendezvous.com), as the PX-10 decals are similar to those of lesser Peugeots. Carbolite came in during the late 1970s, to replace the earlier conventional lugged steel frames. Peugeot frames do tend to ride nicely.

I am 100 percent opposed to kickstands; I see no need for them, I hate the damage the clamp-on variety do to the chainstays, and three of my frames have too little clearance for one, anyway. However, I differ strongly with your opinion of Pletscher "mousetrap" racks, and have one on my Peugeot and one on my Capo. The secret to avoiding slippage and seat stay gouging is to run a short metal strip from one of the rack's mounting holes to the rear brake pivot, and to clamp a piece of clear tubing over each seat stay at the mounting point. I take old L-shaped reflector mounting brackets, flatten them in a vise, and ream out the holes at the ends, if necessary.

Peugeot of France sold its bicycle business to CCM of Canada, and very few now reach the U.S. You are correct that there are LOTS of bike boom era Peugeots out there at VERY reasonable prices. In 1971, the $100+ Peugeot UO-8 was a lighter, more responsive, more enjoyable ride than its overweight direct competition, such as the Schwinn Continental and the American Eagle [Nishiki] Custom Sport. One had to spend another $20 or so to move up to a Raleigh Super Course, with its Reynolds 531 main triangle.

   RE:Peugeot posted by Jonathan on 11/12/2001 at 8:49:32 PM
**I find good alternate (appropriate) uses for kickstands, of which I have lots.
Get a 2 in.x1/4" lag bolt and use it to mount the kickstand on a fence stringer; Screw it in from the "bottom" so the stand opens out. The slight angle makes for a great hanger for old wheels or even frames (if you mount 2 kickstands about 2 feet apart).
**The sidepulls are better for keeping cables clear of the bracket on the racks.
Your "work-around" plan is some sound engineering...so why couldn't the rack have a little plastic bag of pre-made fittings and tubing; like the Blackburns? I've made mounting clamps out of ash wood that work great and add a flavor of "retro" wooden frames. Lignum vitae (ironwood) might be good, but it's expensive and tough to work. I drill 2 holes in a 1 in. vertical grain stock that's about 4 in. long. Bandsaw it in half, lengthways and drill small holes for the machine screws with wingnut fasteners. Thompsons waterseal is a good preservative against water damage. You can screw in small eyerings for bungee anchors, too!
I guess putting a couple of 12packs on the back is not what they were intended to handle. The occasional pizza? Yes. They are about half the price of a real solid rack, so it's not fair to judge them against those. The one that I have mounted is a "schwinn approved" version that is pretty solid for top loads.
**The mixte seems like it'll go down easy in a non-collision setdown as it has a low center of gravity. Interesting feel on the road. I'm sold on the design. Amazed it hasn't picked up a greater market, but reason isn't what drives the market, so I'm not THAT amazed, just confused.
Thanks for that bit about carbolit 103. It is nothing like the chro/mo, I take it.

   mixtes posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 2:42:10 AM
In Europe, mixtes have long been regarded as "unisex" frames. At least through the late 1970s, they were popular commuting bikes for men and women.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   westpoint bicycle posted by: jeff on 11/10/2001 at 8:56:51 PM
i have an older 20" bike the only i.d. on it is on headbadge&chaigaurd the name westpoint any info or sites would be appreciated

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Another one posted by: Walter on 11/10/2001 at 2:28:08 AM
Not a "classic" Cinelli with the SLX framesetbut a nice bike that looks like it'll go for a good price. Found in storage by a non-biker. I know people who bid on abandoned storage. You do it basically sight unseen. Sometime they'll open the door but you can't go in and look around. Junk mostly but this guy got a score.


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Check it out posted by: Walter on 11/10/2001 at 1:18:53 AM
Yeah it's got an aluminum frame and it's probably from 1991-93 but that Campy C-Record should be worthy of attention. Not to mention the D/T shifters and sew-ups. I like Colnagos even when they get excessively funky for no apparent reason.


What do you think? Can it compete with a Schwinn Krate?

Be advised that there are a large # of large pictures and load time is slow. At least with my crappy Gateway.net ISP.

AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by: free spirit on 11/9/2001 at 7:24:19 AM
Has anyone looked at item # 1027807424 a Puegeot from the 70s. It looks like a Px-10 but it seems to have an older seat tube emblem (decal) and the rear derailer looks unlike a simplex prestique. It has what looks like black rubber covered brake handles but the pictures arent clear enough to make out other features.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by Warren on 11/9/2001 at 1:52:01 PM
This item number isn't correct...and a search in "bicycles:transportation" didn't show one. Try cutting and pasting complete urls when posting an item from e-bay. It makes life so much easier...

   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 3:18:12 PM
try this url:


I somehow doubt this one will fetch $7100 ...

   searching for bicycles on eBay posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 3:19:56 PM
Bicycles can be found in two places on eBay: sporting goods/bicycles and collectibles/transportation/bicycles. Perhaps I am being thick, but I have not figured out how to search both categories simultaneously.

   half-chrome stays posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 3:24:34 PM
I would really like to see a closeup picture of the Reynolds 531 decal, which would clinch the frame's identity, but the half-chrome stays strongly suggest PX-10 (fully Reynolds), rather than PR-10 or PKN-10 (Reynolds main triangle), to me.

   RE:searching for bicycles on eBay posted by Fred A on 11/9/2001 at 5:10:04 PM
When I search for bicycles on eBay, I just go to the home page and type in ''Schwinn'','' Peugeot bike'' or whatever and it automatically searches all of eBay. Once opened, to say the Peugeot bike page, click on the small box below it and it will search descriptions using those words also. Works every time!
Fred A.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by Walter on 11/9/2001 at 7:51:08 PM
Seller is right it would be a project. It's doable though. My wife's ride came to me as a 70s vintage "Harding" that had picked up smoke damge from a nearby building fire. Between new paint and alot of time with the polishing wheel it looks alright.

Do you guys think this might be a thoroughbred? The closeup of the r. der. shows what looks like to me a nutted axle. Not a feature I'd expect. Ideale saddles seem to draw interest but this one has some miles.

I too hink the 7100$ record is safe.

   searching all of eBay posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 10:03:39 PM
I agree with Fred's advice for some searches, but be prepared to sift through ALOT of undesired results if you search for "Bianchi," "Capo," or even "Varsity."

     70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 10:05:43 PM
That's not a nutted axle, but a Simplex skewer-end, without its customary plastic cap. I may wish the seller would post a closeup of the Reynolds 531 decal.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by Walter on 11/10/2001 at 1:01:59 AM
Thanks for the clarification. The decal would tell alot.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by Art on 11/10/2001 at 1:34:13 AM
When I search a specific maker, like Puegeot, I add bike or bicycle. I might miss something, but I also don't have to deal with all of the other hits (such as cars in this case).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by DBean on 11/10/2001 at 1:14:33 PM
Art unwittingly brings up a good point: with words like Peugeot, search for likely misspellings, too.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by freespirit on 11/12/2001 at 6:48:29 AM
I programmed my fast keys to go to e-bay.com - sports -sporting goods - bicycles, and then type in what I'm looking for. Item #1031100518 in the bicycles category a 72 schwinn paramount damaged when it was on a bike rack and the owner tried to park his car in the garage. Is it fixable.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by DBean on 11/12/2001 at 2:17:50 PM
I'm sure the Paramount will require AT LEAST replacement of the top and down tubes (and maybe a lot more!) Check with any framebuilder what that would be and then add some more $$$ to it. Now I wish I had bid on that beautiful "Superior" that was actually a Paramount with less chrome; a bargain at $305 (but, of course, more if I had been in the bidding, too!)

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   70s PUEGEOT on ebay posted by Brian L. on 11/12/2001 at 9:00:22 PM
I watched that sale with great interest. In my eyes, it looked to be a real sleeper, and probably much earlier than 70's vintage, with the alloy-railed Ideale saddle and early Simplex changer. Mafac brakes also appeared to have brass bushings instead of the later and cheaper plastic. Final sale price was a respectable $930, indicating that PX-10s are really becoming one of the more desirable collectables, despite average to poor build quality in many examples.

AGE / VALUE:   BEFORE YOU TOSS IT OUT! posted by: Kevin K on 11/8/2001 at 8:00:55 PM
Hi. I'm in need of a good quality frame section. I need the bottom bracket housing, chain stays and forged dropouts with a built in derailleur hanger. If you've got a damaged frame, or just an older frame that you are willing to part with, please email me. Thanks, Kevin

   What are you up to, Kevin? posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 11:11:18 PM
Are you building a recumbent, or a tandem, or a Berto-style derailleur tester?

   RE:What are you up to, Kevin? posted by Kevin K on 11/9/2001 at 8:20:32 PM
Hey John. What might you have? Kevin

   RE:What are you up to, Kevin? posted by Kevin K on 11/9/2001 at 8:24:00 PM
Hey John. I need a bike for a second attempt at the Super Sport modification. The Nishiki's dropouts were just to thick to properly fit into the SS seat stays. Kevin

MISC:   Derailleur setup and cables posted by: Ian on 11/8/2001 at 9:04:19 AM
Hi, can anyone help with instructions on the correct method of setting up an Osgear derailleur from the late 40's and a Simplex "Champion du Monde" one from the late 30's (the single jockey wheel model)? Also can anybody suggest a source for old style gearchange and brake cabling that has no covering or cloth? covering rather than the modern plastic covered stuff - it may work fine but it don't look right! Gotta get the priorities right and have it looking good. Thanks, Ian.

   RE:MISC:   Derailleur setup and cables posted by Schwinnderella on 11/9/2001 at 2:30:30 AM
Hi Ian ,
I have a book titled Bicycling News Service data book 1939. It has detailed info on numerous derailleurs and dynamo sets. Do you know which model of Osgear you have? My book shows four. Only Simplex listed is the Champion of France which is likely similar.The print is rather small and in the past did not scan well but something could be worked out. Howard

   RE:RE:MISC:   Derailleur setup and cables posted by Ian on 11/9/2001 at 3:21:22 AM
The Osgear is marked "Super Champion" and is the type where the tensioner clamps around the bottom of the frame downtube not the chainstay. The Simplex is different to the Champion of France. I have had a look at "The Dancing Chain" and also had a Fonteyn catalogue from Chuck but the "Champion Du Monde" is earlier and has a single jockey wheel plus a guide rather than two wheels. The angle of the arm etc appears to be a lot different in the pictures and it is adjustable. I can probably muddle through and get it to work, it is only for demonstrations, but it would be nice to know the proper way to set it up. Thanks, Ian.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Derailleur setup and cables posted by Ian on 11/12/2001 at 8:47:29 AM
Well it works! Half a Sunday afternoon of sorting out axle and cone spacing and cleaning dried up oil out of the slide and the freewheel and it shifts like silk. I found a throttle cable off a lawnmower that had the right looking outer and substituted braided inner cable and everything works just like it used to when the original owner took it off to go grass track racing (where fixed wheel was mandatory) in 1950. Anybody know what sort of brakes I should look for for a 1938 racer? Thanks to those who sent emails with suggestions, Cheers Ian in N.Z.

AGE / VALUE:   Steyr Clubman posted by: Erik on 11/8/2001 at 6:25:21 AM
This one is the second vintage bike I've bought in 2 days! I think I'm addicted! My wife gave me "the funny look" when I came home with ANOTHER old "junky" bike from a garage sale. She just doesn't get it. This one is a beautiful yellow color with black outlining and white handlebar tape. It looks unridden- not a scratch, just a 1/4 inch of dust!
I've never heard of the name but I just couldn't resist buying it for $10!

Any age/value info you can offer will be greatly appreciated. The only mark I could find was on the bottom of the crank tube: 4473104. It has the "Clubman" decal on the bottom tube and a colorful Steyr decal, that has the Olympic rings on it, on the seat tube .

It has Weinmann brakes, Simplex Derailleurs, Rigida rims, and an unknown steel crank. The headset says "AVA". What does AVA mean? Also, is "Rigida" the maker of the rims, or is that the model name? The hubs say "New Star, Made in France"- is New Star the manufacturer of those hubs.

I have a million more questions, but I'll save some for later. Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me!!

   Warning posted by Oscar on 11/8/2001 at 12:29:15 PM
I don't know anything about Streyrs, but I'm sure I've seen it around. It sounds like a beauty.

Sheldon Brown, in his encyclopedic website www.sheldonbrown.com, says several times that AVA bars and stems are prone to breaking. If this happens, it's a guaranteed crash. I would definately replace both. If you want a replacement French sized bar and stem set, let me know.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Steyr Clubman posted by Walter on 11/8/2001 at 1:53:54 PM
Can't go wrong for $10. About the only thing I can add is that Rigida is indeed the rim make. Steel rims. Don't know when they started but were common on French bikes thru the 70s. Had a pair on a Motobecane from later 70s.

Sounds like a neat bike. How many cogs on the rear wheel?

   Steyr Clubman posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 2:19:49 PM
The Clubman was Graz, Austria-based Steyr-Daimler-Puch's bottom-of-the-line Peugeot AO-8 challenger. The frame is basic carbon steel. The full-length derailleur cable housing made the Simplex gear even sloppier than Peugeot's open-cabling. The bottom bracket is Swiss-threaded. Some of the very early Sears Free Spirit road bikes are Clubman cousins; the later ones are boat anchors from "Murfy" (Murray and/or Huffy).

   AVA stems of death posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 2:21:27 PM
Jump on Sheldon's website post haste, to see whether your Clubman is endowed with one of the unreliable French "stems of death." You may want to replace it ...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Steyr Clubman posted by Warren on 11/9/2001 at 12:03:53 AM
For the record, Rigida also made some nice vintage alloy clinchers as well. These days they continue to make high end alloy mountain and deep section road rims.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Steyr Clubman posted by Erik on 11/9/2001 at 3:32:55 AM
Thanks for the good info and opinions! There are 5 cogs on the rear wheel of this Steyr-Clubman. I'll definitely consider replacing the stem/handlebars. This board has really helped me learn what to look for in the next thrift-shopgarage sale bike I spy. You never know when you might find a pristine racer buried in the corner. I live in a large military community- maybe that's part of the reason why I've seen so many of these imported bikes at garage sales and thrift stores? I'm assuming this particular bicycle is from the early 70's.

   AGE :   Steyr Clubman posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 3:14:31 PM
You are right about the age. The Clubman was indeed popular during the early 1970s, before the Japanese and later the Taiwanese seriously undercut the traditional European suppliers of imported lightweights. In the U.S., the biggest-volume European brands were Raleigh (U.K.), Peugeot (France), Steyr-Daimler-Puch (Austria), and Bianchi (Italy). How's that for one sample from every bottom bracket thread group?

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by: Erik on 11/8/2001 at 5:56:03 AM
I finally bought my first vintage bike, an old Raleigh Grand Prix, at a garage sale. I'm so excited that I bought a second bike the next day- but I'll leave that for a separate post. Almost all of the decals are gone, although the bike shows very little use.

What kind of date/value info can you offer? I'm not going to sell it- I'm just curious. There is an "X" stamped under the crank tube and an "O" stamped at the top of the seat tube. On the rear drop-out there are some #'s stamped: 266220

It's a men's bike with a Stronglight crankset, Weinmann 750 brakes, GB headset, Brooks B5N saddle, white Carlton brake lever covers, and Simplex deraileurs.

The hubs say "Normandy" on them and have a little red "C" decal on the end nuts. Same "C" decal on the seat clamp nut. What does that mean?
I know it's not the top of the line, but I only paid $5 for it!
Thanks for all of your efforts here. I've really learned a lot.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Gralyn on 11/8/2001 at 12:32:15 PM
I found a Raleigh Grand Prix at a bike shop. They wanted $70 for it. I offered them $50 - but they wouldn't take it. Then I inquired on this site....the Grand Prix wasn't that great of a bike...for that price anyway. I went back and looked at it again....it was pretty rough....so, I let it go. Last I checked (months later) it was still there. But I would buy one for 20 or 30 bucks in a heartbeat. So, for what you paid...I think you got a super deal...and it is a pretty good bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Oscar on 11/8/2001 at 12:34:40 PM
Tell your wife that bike hanging hooks are bought by the dozen. That should scare her.

The Grand Prix wasn't top of the line, as you guessed, but it's a very decent bike. You got your $5 worth and then some. I think the "c" nuts mean Carlton. Is yours a leather saddle?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/8/2001 at 5:25:57 PM
My Grand Prix has the rear hub axle nuts with the red R nuts with the serrated ends that grip. They are big and beefy and they sell for a lot for 2 nuts. Like $30.00 or so to the Chopper collectors. R nuts in general do these days. The C stands for Carlton and they are collectable and since Carlton made a lot of bikes these too are worth getting. My Grand Prix has the alloy G.B. stem and this is dangerous as these fail after a few bumps. A chunk came off of mine and I would advise replacing it. There is a green one on e- bay right now but it has been upgraded. The bottom-bracket in mine has a Phillips spindle and 24 t.p.i. Bottom- bracket cups and the steel nervar cottered crankset. I would pull it out and put in a cotterless alloy set. It's a good bike but better is out there. This one doesn't thrill me all that much. It is not a 531 tube bike and if you ride one you know what I mean. The Super course Mk 2 is better.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Yow! That wicked seat posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/8/2001 at 5:28:14 PM
I have a Wright's leather seat with mine and it is hard as rocks and I don't dare ride it myself but others have no problem and many would prefer it. Everybody is diffrent.

   Yow! That great saddle posted by John E on 11/8/2001 at 5:56:30 PM
Actually, Christopher, many of us prefer old-fashioned leather saddles (I have a Brooks Pro and a Brooks Competition, both nicely broken in and extremely comfortable), and a Wright's saddle is a cost-effective alternative to a Brooks.

   RE:Yow! That great saddle posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/8/2001 at 6:22:58 PM
I love the Brooks seats too, but the B-90/3, the B- 130, b-66 and b- 72. I have a lot of the Brooks, Wrights leather seats in the collection but the slimmer, race models don't agree with me but I am in the minority on that. They're all wonderful. The old leather saddlebags are awesome.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Erik on 11/9/2001 at 3:38:04 AM
Great fedback! Thank you. Even after looking at the Serial #'s section, I still don't have a clue as to the age of this bike. I'm assuming the early seventies. Are there any other identifying marks that I may have missed?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/9/2001 at 4:16:17 PM
Look underneath the leather saddle, there may be a date stamp on the metal frame.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by Ken on 11/14/2001 at 9:50:13 PM
Erik, you may learn more at www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/raleigh-home.html ("Retro Raleighs!)

AGE / VALUE:   COPPI 1971 or 1972 posted by: BillP on 11/7/2001 at 4:59:55 PM
I own a '71 (or '72) Coppi. The only thing close to a serial number is the single numeral 8 stamped on the bottom bracket shell. Immediately below the down tube shifters is a decal which reads: Tubi Speciali Senza Saldatura Acciaio LERI AQ 35. It has Campy components (NR rear derailluer) and Balilla brake calibers. I'd like to estimate its value or find where I can determine its value.

   COPPI 1971 or 1972 posted by John E on 11/7/2001 at 7:02:30 PM
From classicrendezvous.com / Italy:
"Coppi-Fiorelli -- contributions [information] needed"

From Sheldonbrown.com:
"Not a terribly great frame but there is one thing going for these - Fausto Coppi rode some Fiorelli bikes. Look in the World of Daniel Rebour and take note of the Coppi bike with the fancy round fork crown. [similar to the "dimpled" fork used on Raleigh three-speeds.]
"Fiorelli built the Coppi frames, although who knows who really built Coppi's actual bike. Aside from the funky factor, these frames are not terribly sought after. Figure price to be based mostly on parts value. In the early to mid 80's Fiorelli bikes in the U.S had nifty cut-outs, fun bright paint, and descent workmanship. For these bikes in full N.R. figure perhaps $600.

"[Fiorelli was an important builder of tandems in the '60s.]"

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by: Gralyn on 11/7/2001 at 1:45:04 AM
I tried on the Schwinn web site....but haven't had any luck...but I would like to know...within the scale of the Schwinn product line....where did the "Traveler" fall. It has good components, and it is very light, aluminum alloy wheels, etc. ChroMo frame, etc.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Jonathan on 11/7/2001 at 5:48:26 AM
Mine is made in Taiwan, which probably means Giant made it as a branded manufacturer for Schwinn. The serial # appears under the bottom bracket which can be used to date the bike. The 4130 chr/mo tubing is main triangle only. I have a Le Tour II (1984); a World (1986) and now the Traveler (1979). The Traveler is the best riding of the three bikes. I'd guess it was near $200, new. The Le Tour II was $189, new. The World was probably less than the Le Tour II as the componentry is lower quality, but still OK. I have a 1977 Schwinn varsity that is completely refurbished and it is not a smooth as the Traveler or Le Tour II or even the World. As the varsity was destined for a brutal existence, I can't fairly rate it in the same category as the other three bikes, which seem more for serious sport/touring for a person in good physical condition. WARNING: check that rediculous rear derailer "ear" tab and the spindle clearance in the dropout. I rat-tailed that silly thing and ground the screw stop washer to gain a little more depth on a Traveler that a friend had crashed because the rear wheel climbed clean out of the dropout. Fortunately, the rider survived. Interesting that really nice frames are fitted with such low-level componentry. Today, while I was looking at new bikes, I noticed a $2000 Santa CRuz full-suspension MTB with Shimano LX gruppo. Come on! Nothing has changed.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Gralyn on 11/7/2001 at 12:33:59 PM
That's interesting....my "World"...I think it's an '84 model is made in Taiwan for the Schwinn Co. However, my "Traveler" has the Schwinn Chicago badge and doesn't indicate Taiwan. And it is the best rider....but the rear gear components do suck.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Eric Amlie on 11/7/2001 at 3:59:14 PM
The Travelers and LeTours varied in quality depending on which year they were produced. If you can determine the year of the bike I probably have the catalog and can tell where it fell in the Schwinn hierarchy for that year. Between the number on the bottom of the bottom bracket (or perhaps the left rear dropout) and the four digit number stamped into the headbadge you should be able to determine the year of the bike. It sounds like one of the better ones though.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Jonathan on 11/8/2001 at 5:52:56 AM
My "traveler" has a decal stating "made in Taiwan". It's possible that your had a similar decal that was removed. If the letter "G" is in the serial it most likeley is a Giant manufactured bike, based on what I have learned about the serial numbering of bikes from the late '70's and the '80's. The "world" is a sluggish, but stout enough for commute service, although I've used it about 5 times. Compared to my "black beast" Bottechia with similar weight frame, the "world" is dumber on the road. Now, the "traveler" handles better than the "black beast", except with (28 inch x 1.5 in.) wheels on the Bottechia, the "traveler" can't win the starting commute job...hands down to "black beast"! Brisk, lively handling are not number "1" concerns for commute rides. The "traveler" is a little too "playful" for my choice, but it's a great ride for fun. Are you going to keep the "traveler"? The Le Tour II of my stable is a schizoid product if ever I had one. It's going to be a fixed-gear with 165mm cranks off a lady's frame Centurian.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Gralyn on 11/8/2001 at 12:27:57 PM
My "Traveler" has Chicago on the head badge, and USA on the decal for the frame on the down tube. However, my "World" does have the Tiawan decal.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by Oscar on 11/9/2001 at 4:02:55 AM
The Chicago and Greenville, MS plant made some lugged steel frames. I think these domestic frames had the Schwinn Chicago label.

   Greenville Schwinn frames posted by John E on 11/9/2001 at 10:09:52 PM
> I think these domestic frames had the Schwinn Chicago label

My made-in-Greenville 1988 KOM-10 does. I read somewhere ("Dancing Chain"?) that Greenville operated approximately 10 years, from 1981 to 1991.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Traveler posted by jim on 11/11/2001 at 8:58:38 AM
I ride one and I love it. Cant be worth more than 20 bucks. Rode alot of lower end lightweights. Traveler has the stiffist bottom bracket. No side to side flex. Beats my cromo raleigh, novara, american le tour for rideing pleasure even after turning it into a three speed.

AGE / VALUE:   NOS SUNTOUR "WINNER" FREEWHEEL posted by: Kevin K on 11/7/2001 at 12:41:58 AM
Hi. I just picked up a NOS Suntour Winner freewheel. 13,14,15,18 and 19 gearing. Really cool little thing. However it feels a little tight.Is it because it's new? My other freewheels spin free, this one spins but stops quickly.Is it because the other freewheels I have are larger geared and inertia keeps them spinning freely? I'm really not qualified to tear this thing apart, is there a lube I could use to possibly free it up? Thanks, Kevin

   RE: Old lube? posted by Eric Amlie on 11/7/2001 at 1:34:59 PM
I would guess that the lube has dried up and gotten too thick. I'm not a bike mechanic so I will defer to those who are, and I don't know what tools you have at your disposal but here is what I would do; Let it soak in the wash tank (kerosene) for a few days to soften up or dissolve the old lube. Blow it out as good as you can with an air nozzle then dribble in a couple spoonfuls of heavy gear oil. This is what I do with all the old nasty used freewheels if I want to reuse them. An alternative to the wash tank might be to spray in a bunch of WD-40 or similar product to soften up the old lube. It also might be a wear in problem. If after you have relubed it and it is still stiff, perhaps it will loosen up with use.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   NOS SUNTOUR posted by Walter on 11/7/2001 at 8:51:58 PM
My inclination is Eric's last suggestion. I think it'll "run-in" fine with some use. I just picked up a NOS Ultra 6 as well. It didn't seem stiff and I put it on and it works fine. Due to the big belly that comes with pregnancy she hasn't put alot of miles on it yet, but they'll come.