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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Truly vintage..... posted by: Walter on 11/21/2001 at 2:14:20 AM
...and probably not very light either but you don't often see a 1890 racer, even on eBay. Safe to say it predates us all.

A couple of observations. They rode tall frames back then and looking at that crank they turned pretty big gears too.
Starting bid makes me think seller got it for a song. I never find things like that!


   big frames posted by John E on 11/21/2001 at 2:48:55 AM
A look at old Tour de France or Ironman pictures supports Walter's contention that racing cyclists currently use short frames, by historical standards.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Truly vintage..... posted by Oscar on 11/21/2001 at 6:22:31 PM
Predates me, that's for sure. The ebay listing says that the drivetrain is 40 x 12. That's a little higher than the gearing for a modern track bike (48 x 16). I'd suppose it's an appropriate gear for those 6-day races.

The bike looks uncomfortable to ride. Your nose would be right above the stem.

   vintage..... posted by John E on 11/22/2001 at 12:31:42 AM
That's the biggest chainring I've ever seen!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Gearing posted by Walter on 11/22/2001 at 3:05:17 AM
It is big isn't it?

The description of "40X12" refers to the number of gear teeth I presume. At the risk of being naive it's the diameter of the chainwheels, not the # of teeth that determines gear size isn't it? That gear is much larger than a modern 52 or 53 tooth ring. I'd guess if a maker came out with a chainwheel that size today it might have something like 70 teeth.

I'm a big guy and from weight lifting have strong quadraceps but I don't tink I could turn that gear for long, though once you got it up to speed inertia would be an aid.

   RE:vintage..... posted by Oscar on 11/22/2001 at 3:32:13 AM
If it's a skiptooth crank at 40 teeth, wouldn't it be the size of an 80 tooth conventional crank? Very manly.

My lumbar spine still hurts from looking at it.

   Big crank posted by Oscar on 11/22/2001 at 3:35:41 AM
Let's put an engineer on Walter's question: Is it the number or teeth or diameter of the chainring and cog that makes the gear?

   Gearing posted by Steven on 11/22/2001 at 3:39:04 AM
I hate to be a party pooper but the chainring diameter has no impact on the gearing. It is the ratio of teeth on the front compared to the rear times the size of the drive wheel that is important. A 40/12 ratio will mean that the wheel turns 3 1/3 times for every turn of the cranks. Given that the wheels are decidedly smaller than those of modern bikes, the gear was not overly monstrous. The reason for the larger frames is also quite logical: seat tubes were not as stiff as a frame, so you wanted it to be as short as possible. Today with the new metals the seat tubes can be infinitely stronger than the same weight frame.

For big chain rings, TA made a few that were larger than 100 teeth. The Bicycle Specialties shop in Toronto used to carry them and may still have them today. I personally have 40/50/60 triple TA up front and 13-24 in the rear set up on my 1970's Bob Jackson racing tandem. When you are flying down hills, you can actually run out of gears! Don't ask about hillclimbing though.

   RE:Gearing posted by Stacey on 11/22/2001 at 5:13:17 PM
I mus take exception to your statement that "chainring diameter has no impact on the gearing" Steven. Diameter, wether that of chainring or rear cog is a direct function of (pitch x tooth count). For example if you have (for ease of simplification), a 1/2" pitch chain and a chainring with 40 teeth, the circumfrence of that sprocket is 20 inches. Now, if your rear cog has 10 teeth, its circumfrence will be 5 inches. Thus providing a ratio of 4:1... for every revolution of the chainring the rear cog will make 4 revolutions. So, while corectly stated, it is the ratio of the circumfrence of the drive member as compared to the circumfrence of the driven member, one can substitute the diameter for the circumfrence by doing the appropriate math.

In the wind,

   tooth counts vs. chainring & cog diameters posted by John E on 11/22/2001 at 7:12:53 PM
For round chainrings and a given chain pitch (1" and 1/2" being near-universal), tooth count, gear circumference, and gear diameter are all directly proportional, and any can be used (consistently, of course) to compute a drive ratio. (Given a 52T chainring and a 13T cog, the rear wheel turns 4 times for every crank revolution, and the diameter of the chainring is indeed 4 times that of the cog.) It gets more interesting when one considers crank length and wheel diameter, as Sheldon suggests in proposing "gain ratios," which consider the torque ratio between the foot on the pedal and the tyre on the road. Of course, the discussion gets even more interesting when one considers BioPace and other various ellipsoidal chainrings; the effective gain ratio oscillates through the pedal stroke, but the AVERAGE value is the same as that of a round ring.

   Math is not my forte posted by Walter on 11/22/2001 at 8:09:29 PM
The arithimetic here is easy enough to follow. John's explanation of ratios explains modern gears very well.

This 1890 ride that started the discussion is far from modern and like Stacey I don't see how you can discount the chainwheel diameter. It has 40 teeth but as Oscar pointed out could have 80. If I fabricated a chainwheel of identical diameter but cut 80 teeth on it have I doubled my gear size? I don't see it but the title to this post is honest.

The point about wheel size reducing the overall size of the gear is well taken. Also that 12 tooth rear cog looks considerably larger in diameter than even the 14 tooth cog I run on my fixed gear so the overall gear may not be monstrous, but still pretty big, assuming chainwheel/cog diameter DOES matter. BTW the pictures are slow to load.

Happy Thanksgiving.

   RE:Math is not my forte posted by Steven on 11/22/2001 at 10:23:56 PM
To Stacey and Walter. Circumference does not make any difference, as long as John's correctly stated proviso holds true. Namely, that the pitch between teeth on the cog and chainwheel are identical. In the photo they appear to be identical.

One could conceivably produce a chainwheel that is 30" in diameter with 40 teeth and have a cog on the back with 10 teeth, spaced with the same pitch as the chainwheel (ratio 4 to 1). This would produce the exact same gear as a modern bike with a 48 tooth chainwheel (approximately 12" diameter)and 12 tooth cog (ratio 4 to 1)

Look at Highwheel bikes from the 1870's and 1880's. They had direct drive and the wheel size was therefore directly proportional to the gear. The true racing machines had 60" and larger wheels. This did mean that people with larger insteps could ride higher geared bikes. Smaller riders were definitely disadvantaged if they could turn larger gears. The first chain driven bikes, for example the kangaroo bikes, remained direct fixed gears and maintained reasonably large wheels, but this for comfort sake only, the chain therefore did not have much of a multiplying purpose to reach the desired gear. It did level out the playing field for all size riders. With the arrival of pneumatic tyres, the wheel diameters could be brought down to sizes that we would recognize today, and the gearing that we still use today was developed. About the only exceptions are bikes such as the Alex Moulton AM7 which used a 52 tooth chainwheel and a 9 tooth cog. It woud seem to be a monstrous gear but when you combine this with tiny 18" wheels it becomes very normal. The Alex Moulton can get away with this because they have both front and rear suspension to negate the need for the shock absorbing effect of the wheels.

   gearing on this particular bike posted by John E on 11/23/2001 at 2:07:27 AM
The gear ratio on this bike indeed appears to be 40/12; if it had modern half-inch-pitch chain and teeth, instead of inch-pitch, and the same gear diameters, the ratio would be a mathematically equivalent 80/24. If we know "D," the outside diameter of the inflated tyre in inches (help!), we can compute the equivalent gearing in standard gear-inch units, as 40*D/12. If D=24", we have an 80-inch gear. If D=26", this goes up to 40*26/12=87 inches, which is about like having 52/16 on a 700C wheel.

   RE:gearing on this particular bike posted by Walter on 11/23/2001 at 12:53:12 PM
Steven and John: I yield to both of you. Your explanations are concise and also remind me of why I majored in History in college.

Actually, my math isn't that poor and once it was pointed out that chain pitch for that bike was effectively 2X modern the rest fell in line. I know chain pitch has changed over time but I have never seen or heard mention of 1 inch pitch. That's a big chain. Probably hard to find a repro today but as Oscar points out that bike would send me to the chiropractor pretty fast if I ever rode one like it, chain pitch nonwithstanding.

AGE / VALUE:   FILLET BRAZING posted by: Kevin K on 11/19/2001 at 11:43:16 PM
Hi. Looking for info on Schwinn fillet brazed frames. When did Schwinn start using this form of brazing/welding? What models were built in this manner. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FILLET BRAZING posted by jerry on 11/20/2001 at 2:30:29 AM
My first "ten speed" was a Schwinn Super Sport I bought in 1967. It was fillet brazed with chro/mo tubing and was really a pretty nice frame excluding the bottom bracket. Schwinn used their one piece steel crank on everthing but thr Paramounts at that time and it really made for a heavier bike then neccessary. Came with alloy rims, Huret derailleurs, Weinmann center pulls and I think a Brooks leather saddle. I think the Super Sport had been out for a couple of years when I bought one in '67. There was also a "Superior" in that same time frame. I have one of those now and it is fillet brazed and very similar to the "Super Sport" except it is a 15 speed.

   1962 posted by John E on 11/20/2001 at 2:55:18 AM
Help me out here, historians, but I think the Superior came out in 1962. If Schwinn had lost the built-in kickstand and used a European-style BB and crankset, these would have been world-class framesets. However, in 1962, when the only crank choices were very pricey Campy aluminum, reliable and cheap Ashtabula, and unreliable cottered steel, perhaps Schwinn (Keith Kingbay, I presume) made the right call, after all. (In the early 1960s, Schwinn Paramounts and other top-end bikes still had cottered cranks.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FILLET BRAZING posted by Kevin K on 11/20/2001 at 12:49:25 PM
Hi Guys and thanks for the info. I ask this about the fillet brazed Schwinns as I'm finding these handbuilt bikes alot of fun to both work with and own. I know about the 60's and early 70's offerings from Schwinn, but I know nothing of the early bikes. I'm sure in my scouting I've missed purchasing these great old pieces as they just looked like dumb old bikes.So thanks all and Happy Thanksgiving. Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   FILLET BRAZING posted by Eric Amlie on 11/20/2001 at 5:31:51 PM
I was thinking that the fillet brazed frames went back into the late thirties but I was assuming that all the chrome-moly frames were fillet brazed. I looked in my '38 Paramount/Superior catalog last night and found that the Superior was made from seamless drawn chrome-moly but was reinforced and "steel welded". I know Schwinn made bikes with chrome-moly frames from that time forward but I guess we still don't know when the fillet brazing started.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   FILLET BRAZING posted by Bill Putnam on 11/20/2001 at 6:35:28 PM
See Mike Rother's article on Sheldon Brown's page:


I had a 1939 Schwinn 3 speed which was fillet brazed
and used a seamless, but not chrome-moly, tubing, same
basic tube sizes as the later varsity's rather than
the larger tubing on the chrome-moly bikes.

   RE:SCHWINN HAND BUILT SHOP posted by Kevin K on 11/21/2001 at 5:39:58 PM
I read the story about the fillet brazed Schwinn bikes and that Schwinn had the hand build shop. I feel alot more than just the Paramounts, Super Sports, Sports Tourers and Superiors were built there. I owned a 67 Schwinn Twinn ( tandem) last summer. This bike had quite a bit of hand brazing done. It also had a larger diameter tube that connected the bottom brackets together. I also own a 1974 Schwinn Sprint( curved tube model ) This bike also has hand brazing done on the bottom bracket and the kickstand is brazed on instead of being weled as the others in the Schwinn line. Anyone know of other models that went into the hand build shop. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:RE:SCHWINN HAND BUILT SHOP posted by Oscar on 11/21/2001 at 6:14:34 PM
That's interesting about the Sprint. I've been on the lookout for one, but I was under the impression that it was electroforged. Out of curiousity, Kevin, can you measure the chainstay length on your Sprint for me? Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   '53 Paramount Track Bike on e-bay posted by: jerry on 11/19/2001 at 10:11:41 PM
Does anybody have an opinion on the '53 Paramount track bike that is currently on e-bay. The serial number doesn't match anything I can find, there is no headbadge, it has been repainted and has keyhole lugs on the headtube but not on the BB. It is at $300 right now and that would be a deal if it's real.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   '53 Paramount Track Bike on e-bay posted by Walter on 11/20/2001 at 1:14:38 AM
I posted on that bike below. Hasn't drawn any real comment but I like the bike ( I like most fixed gear racers). I don't have ready access to Paramount S/Ns but the selller did say something about it being rebadged for a racing team. $300 does seem like a good price. Considering that a really nice Wastyn racer from the 1930s in original condition with decals and wood rims didn't draw a $1500 opening bid in Sept. I'd be surprised if this goes much higher.

In a similar vein a really nice Schwinn Superior barely broke $300. Maybe collector interest isn't heavy on lugged Schwinn bikes right now. The Varsity that's being talked about will go for more than this trackie or that Superior

I'll follow the auction with interest.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   '53 Paramount Track Bike on e-bay posted by DBean on 11/20/2001 at 2:11:59 PM
And that Superior was essentially the same as a 70s Paramount; all 531 DB, Nervex, Campy parts, etc. A bargain.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   '53 Paramount Track Bike on e-bay posted by Art on 11/20/2001 at 3:36:42 PM
This track bike has the same lug work as my 54 Paramount tourist, which was Oscar Wastyn built. The crank alone on this bike is $250 (from cycleart). Add $600 for paint (from Cycleart). Plus the wheels, hubs, saddle, post, bars and stem.
The waterford site has serial numbers for Paramounts, including some of the earlier ones, including tandems. The number seems not to fit in anywhere, but track bikes may have been numbered differently. Probably is a 53 because is was restored by Cycleart and he knows these bikes.
Interesting to see what this bike ends up going for.
Happy Thanksgiving, Art.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   '53 Paramount Track Bike on e-bay posted by Walter on 11/21/2001 at 2:01:09 PM
A Frejus track bike of similar vintage recently went for a little over $600. It was a chromed frame, original finish. My guess is that might be a factor if the price discrepancy ends up very large between the 2 bikes. Otherwise a Paramount should draw at least the same interest as a Frejus. I don't think I'm merely being ethnocentric here.

MISC:   Schwinn Sports Tourer posted by: Fred A on 11/19/2001 at 7:29:05 PM
I've just purchased my second Schwinn Sports Tourer, this one in orange. The other one is green with all original components that match my catalog. Both are 1974 models (K), yet the orange one has bar end shifters stamped Schwinn Approved with a Shimano Crane GS rear derailleur. Bike still had the origianl cloth handlebar tape that also isn't shown or listed. The catalog doesn't show theses even as options. Anybody have any ideas? (I checked my 1975 catalog, also with no luck.)

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Sports Tourer posted by Kevin K on 11/19/2001 at 9:03:56 PM
Hi. Nice bike Fred. Enjoy it! Kevin

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Sports Tourer posted by Eric Amlie on 11/19/2001 at 9:05:07 PM
A few things come to mind here;

The serial number only dates the frame, not necessarily when the bike was built up and sold. Schwinn often used up older frames to build newer bikes.

The catalogs were put together the preceding year and used the previous years models or prototypes for the photos and specs. I have seen many cases where a bike did not match what was supposedly available per the catalog.

How can you be sure that the bar tape is original?

I see the Voyageur II had your barcons. Perhaps you have a prototype which is a hybrid between the Voyageur and Sports Tourer.

For what it's worth I think the Schwinn LeTour 300 rear derailleur is a rebadged Shimano Crane GS. If your bike is an early prototype perhaps the rebadged derailleurs were not available yet.

I see that neither of your colors was supposedly available in '74 according to the catalog although Lime Green became available in '75.

Just some thoughts.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Sports Tourer posted by Fred A on 11/20/2001 at 2:47:16 AM
Thanks for some info, guys.

The cloth handlebar tape was a bear to get off as it was adhesive backed and quite dried out. I had also noticed that the green one I have only shows up in the '75 catalog (probably a left over '74 frame like Eric said) but an orange one does appear in '74.

If it is a prototype as you've said, I'll really consider myself lucky. Both frames are 26'' which is my size, so I'm even luckier. I'll have to start checking around to see if I can get any other colors (hope my wife isn't going to read this! I have 43 various make/model bikes now!!!!!!)

Thanks again for the help!


   RE: '74 Catalog posted by Eric Amlie on 11/20/2001 at 1:28:30 PM
Another curiosity. There must be more than one '74 catalog. Mine lists the available colors as Kool Lemon, Opaque Red, and Opaque Blue....no Orange.

   RE:RE: '74 Catalog posted by FRED A on 11/20/2001 at 5:21:05 PM
You're right Eric! I had my '71 catalog open when I was looking for answers. Now I'm really confused with the orange.


   RE: Lime '73 posted by Eric Amlie on 11/22/2001 at 2:55:24 AM
Here's another one for you. I just picked up a Lime Sports Tourer frame with a CJ serial # (March '73). I don't have my '73 catalog handy right now but I don't think lime was given as an available color in the 1973 catalog.

   RE:RE: Lime '73 posted by Fred A on 11/22/2001 at 3:23:27 AM
Wow! This is really starting to get strange. These bikes ride great and I can see why the prices back then were around $200. No Paramount, but as close as you could get for the money. When you got this frame, were any of the other components available? Out of curiosity, what size is the frame?

   RE:RE:RE: Lime '73 posted by Eric Amlie on 11/22/2001 at 4:54:57 PM
The frame is a 22" and just has the fixed cup and the front derailleur. I asked about the fork. The guy said he threw it away. Doh! He said this frame is basically the same as the Paramount tandem frames (the tandems frames were not lugged) from that period and that he was going to build his own tandem from a couple of them.

AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by: Ryan on 11/19/2001 at 7:38:05 AM
i have recently aquired a very old road bike and was hoping to find out its aproximate age/value etc. it is black with the name Windsor painted beautifully all over it and ornate lugwork. the wheels are steel rimmed with a 3spd x 1spd flip hub(light vew, i think) on the rear. tyres are Michelin World Tour 32-630 (27 x 1 1/4)inscribed on the gears at the reart is 'Merveille Marquee Derosee made in France. the brakes are M something Speedoler and are odd looking sidepulls. many of the parts in shape seem to be from around the 1920's. any information would be greatly apreciated!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by erinnicole on 11/20/2001 at 1:18:43 AM
I'm afraid I have no info for you but I'd love to see a pic. I like the old racers and Protar kits is as close as I can normally get. If you post pictures please post a link here.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Walter on 11/20/2001 at 1:27:35 AM
Just in case anybody's curious the above post was "authored" by my 5 year old. She wanted to see her name on the computer and daddy indulged her.

......Yes she's spoiled but shed does like bikes though she isn't quite ready for a Protar kit yet.

   Kids these days... posted by Oscar on 11/20/2001 at 3:46:26 AM
I couldn't type until I was 14. Of course, that was on a typewriter. We had a 16 kid clerking for us one summer. I had to teach him how to use the selectric. The rest of the time he did tech support for our pc's and database management.

You're raising her right, Walter.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Ryan on 11/21/2001 at 6:51:24 AM

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Walter on 11/21/2001 at 4:42:18 PM
I was referring to the post by "erinnicole" who is my 5 year old daughter and I let her type her name in after she watched me type out the reply. We have to work on capitalization and spacing but otherwise she did OK. Sorry about the confusion.

BTW I got the pics, thanks! Interesting bike. I doubt the stem with the recesed bolt is original and what's left of the paint job is probably not OEM either. Interesting frame. Track ends so the flip-flop hub is appropriate. Braze-ons indicate it was meant to have brakes so definitely a road bike as opposed to a velo racer. Also a wider wheel base than you'd find on a velo or even a road racer of recent vintage. Those really large pump pegs that extend from underneath the top tube were still around in the 70s but were an old design by then. Nice lug work.

My knowledge of Windsor is a Mexican bike but I feel this is probably older than that. If you don't mid post the pics in the OldRoads data base. Probably people out here that can tell you more.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   rudge whitworth sport posted by: caro on 11/19/2001 at 2:45:10 AM
I have a men's rudge whitworth sport (possibly late 50's) all original
parts (minus the chain) with light generator and brooks seat.
any ideas of its worth?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nice 63 varsity on ebay #1035345526 posted by: James on 11/19/2001 at 1:05:21 AM
i know i'm dating myself here but i have to say that the 1963 varsity thats listed on ebay is really something else. its one of the nicest lightweights i have seen in quite some time. i dont have the funds to bid, but i sure like looking at it. someone will be having a great christmas gift. it sure brings back memoreys.

   James who? posted by Me on 11/19/2001 at 1:51:03 AM
Anyone think it's James' bike?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:beautiful bike anyway. posted by me on 11/19/2001 at 2:10:47 AM
i want it, but dont have the money.

   It's Larry's, and it is pristine posted by John E on 11/19/2001 at 6:04:57 PM
This Varsity is being offered by the same guy who sold the record-price 1960 Continental on eBay. If anything, this is in even better condition, although it is arguably a bit less collectible, because it lacks that debut-year mystique (but it shifts much better, front and rear!). I wonder whether 1963 is the only year with this particular checkered decal on the seat tube.

1963 was the Varsity's finest model year, with modern gear changers and 27" wheels, but without spoke protectors, chain guards, suicide brakes, mattress saddles, TwinStiks, non-interchangeable chainrings with proprietary "Sprint" mounting, and other hints of "progress."

   RE: Seat tube decal posted by Eric Amlie on 11/19/2001 at 9:17:35 PM
The '62 Varsity also had this checkered seat tube decal though the other decals were different. Sure wish I could afford this bike. It will be interesting to see if the buyer of the '60 Continental buys this one also.

   RE:RE: Seat tube decal posted by Wings on 11/20/2001 at 3:19:32 AM
I had one just like that only mine was candy orange in color. I gave it away about 3 years ago when Varsitys were all over. However, I still have a woman's Varsity that looks just like that -- also in blue. I have never checked the year. How much do you think the Varsity on Ebay will go for?

   RE:RE:RE: Seat tube decal posted by Michael Wright on 11/20/2001 at 11:39:31 PM
Bike will fetch $350 to $500. Not many early varsity's around anymore in that kind of cond. that bike is mint.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   2 interesting fixed gears on eBay posted by: Walter on 11/16/2001 at 5:27:08 PM
#103449014 is a Paramount track racer from 1953. Looks to be in very nice shape.

#1033768119 is a Crescent with a frame from the late 1890s. Apparently some of the components are "newer" (1920s). Wood rims. Seller claims the bike is ridable. "Buy It Now" for under $500. It'll be interesting to see if it or the Paramount goes.

Not mine, etc. I just like the looks of a singlespeed racer.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:walter who? posted by me on 11/19/2001 at 2:18:59 AM
anyone think its walter's bike?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:walter who? posted by me on 11/19/2001 at 2:19:50 AM
anyone think its walter's bike?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:walter who? posted by Walter on 11/19/2001 at 3:52:53 PM
"Anyone think...?"

Not me and I'd be the one to know. The Crescent sold at the "Buy It Now" price. My gut saysthat's a good deal but I honestly don't know much about bikes that old.

AGE / VALUE:   year of make and value of bike posted by: r. anderson on 11/16/2001 at 3:30:40 AM
I have a German made bike with badge which says Torpedo -Werke A-G on the bottom of badge, Frankfurt - Rodelheim. It also has sturmey - archer 3 speed shifter and rim with leather strap on hub. It has a bike pump, also has front fender ornament which is a rim with wings.The front and rear brakes are stamped with the word brillant. The bottom of the crank says made in Germant US zone 1050081. The rubber is Goodyear with the words fits English standards.

    year of make and value of bike posted by John E on 11/16/2001 at 4:15:02 AM
Sehr interessant! U.S. Zone sounds post-WWII, when the Allies carved up Deutschland. Check the S/A hub -- they usually have a date code stamped on the shell.

   German bicycles posted by John E on 11/16/2001 at 4:21:08 AM
Thanks for posting. Others have commented that we see very few German bicycles in the U.S. I'll try to find the link to a photo of a 1930s Adler ("Eagle"), which featured a 3-speed stick-shift sliding gear transmission integrated into the oversize bottom bracket.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   year of make and value of bike posted by Art on 11/16/2001 at 6:41:39 PM
There is a fellow who advertises on Bicycle Trader's website. Go to classifieds. Then military. He could probably help you date and value this bike.

FOR SALE:   Saw so much Peugeot and Atax....... posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycle at OldRoads.com on 11/15/2001 at 10:58:32 PM
We've seen so much French stuff selling this month we decided to put one on Ebay.

YES it's ok to post your Ebay stuff here. We're doing it.

Item number: 1033942615

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1033942615

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles

   helicomatic posted by John E on 11/15/2001 at 11:22:30 PM
Great-looking cranks and frameset, Vin, and just my size! The only aspect I dislike is that @#$(^ Helicomatic freewheel/hub -- nice concept, mediocre execution, lousy replacement parts availability.

   age? posted by John E on 11/15/2001 at 11:40:20 PM
What is the serial number? The decals look like mid-1980s, I think, and I think that's about when Helicomatic was out.

   Extra Shifter posted by Oscar on 11/16/2001 at 4:34:46 AM
Does anyone need a left shifter like that simplex. Or does anyone have an extra right?

   RE:FOR SALE:   Saw so much Peugeot and Atax....... posted by VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 11/16/2001 at 1:21:28 PM
Serial number under the BB:

B201 601

   I think it's a 1982 posted by John E on 11/16/2001 at 9:20:33 PM
According to Russ Fitzgerald's PX-10 website,
"Peugeots built in France during the 1980's can be dated by year through use of their serial numbers. Following a letter prefix, typically Y or B, the first number of the numeral code indicates the bicycle's model year (ex. PKN-10 #B 0667631 [my S/N, in fact], built in 1980)."

   chemical composition of Vitus tubing posted by John E on 11/16/2001 at 9:22:48 PM
Now I'm curious. Is Vitus a CrMo steel, like Columbus, or MnMo, like Reynolds 531?

   RE:chemical composition of Vitus tubing posted by Jim on 11/17/2001 at 3:52:16 PM
What's the deal on the Helicomatic freewheel/hub? Is it made by Peugeot or Maillard?

   helicomatic posted by John E on 11/19/2001 at 12:43:41 AM
Actually, you do not want to know, but you can read a little about helicomatic on Sheldon's website. Helicomatic was Maillard's (rebranded for Peugeots, just as 1980s Stronglight cranks and Simplex derailleurs often were) evolutionary missing link between the screw-on freewheel and the cassette. The cogs screw onto the ratchet body, which is integrated with the hub. To change a spoke, simply remove the cogs, as on a cassette. Unfortunately, the execution was abominable. If I were to buy that Vitus bike for the frame, the first thing I would do would be to replace the rear wheel.

   pugeot bike mfg. for Indian motorcycle Co. posted by gary on 11/19/2001 at 6:19:18 PM
I would like to know any information about ladies lightweight known as Redskin Indian Princess

WANTED:   Help my Motobecane seatpost... posted by: Warren on 11/15/2001 at 4:08:10 AM
I posted an inquiry about a Motobecane a couple of weeks ago...I looked at it again and came to an agreed price of $75 for the frame and fork and componentry without wheels..steeper than I would like but it has interesting features...including a braze-on Huret front derailleur...new to me.
Anyway, I put the bike down and promise to come back and pick it up when I see it...the seatpost clamps into the frame with some bizarre proprietary bolt/system that threads through a tapped hole in the frame into the seatpost...and it's missing (the clamping doo-dad that is). It's a stab in the dark but does anyone have one? Has anyone seen this before?

   RE:WANTED:   Help my Motobecane seatpost... posted by jj on 11/15/2001 at 1:28:53 PM
I've seen some seat posts that use a binder bolt like a standard stem. Is that what you mean?

   RE:WANTED:   Help my Motobecane seatpost... posted by Keith on 11/15/2001 at 5:30:13 PM
I've seen them -- made by Atax of France. I HAD one -- sorry. I kinda question the use of an expanding bolt inside thin-wall tubing (much thinner than most steerer tubes) -- so when you do find one, don't overtighten it.

WANTED:   Grips Wanted posted by: JOEL on 11/14/2001 at 9:08:01 PM
Hey Guys. I posted this on the MTB forum but I thought I would try here too.
I found this great set of grips a few years ago in the scrap bin at the bike shop. They're about worn out now and I would like to buy another new/used set. I have been told they were made by Tange in the 80s. They are kind of oval shaped (cross section), and pretty thick. I posted a picture on the Schwinn forum yesterday or can email one.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   NOS Raleighs posted by: Don on 11/14/2001 at 4:59:56 PM
From Cascade (Seattle) Bike Ads site: NOS Raleighs, Professionals, Competition, Super Course, Records & a few 3 speeds. e-mail to recycle@wmni.net for info & some pics. I contacted him & prices are high, $600 for 21.5" Copper Super Course with bar end shifters, $1800 each for two 22.5" Professionals, Blue/Mink. But they are still in box & unassembled.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Bikes posted by: Art on 11/14/2001 at 5:29:40 AM
Two interesting English frames on ebay.
Paris Galibier 1028702089
Flying Gate 1032131374

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Bikes posted by Yve on 11/14/2001 at 10:29:02 AM
I grew up with my family telling me that my great grandfather had invented an early racing cylce which was called The Silver Birch-- no amount of research has come up with any evidence of this - is my family mad?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Bikes posted by sam on 11/14/2001 at 2:18:18 PM
Have you checked the library where your G.G.father lived/worked to see if they have news papers of the era on micro-film.Did they say he won with his bike?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   English Bikes posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/14/2001 at 3:57:04 PM
Probably not mad but along the years they probably threw away anything that they had to prove it.
Keep on it.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   iverson olympic model posted by: scott on 11/13/2001 at 12:57:01 AM
i have a womens 10 speed 27 in. IVERSON 1976 OLYMPIC SPONSOR
model. It has a duel cable, push/pull rear derailler. does anyone know what it could be worth?

   iverson olympic model posted by John E on 11/13/2001 at 2:35:03 AM
Approximately $0. Sorry about that -- that push-pull derailleur was not one of Shimano's better efforts, and the frame is probably basic carbon steel.

   unfortunately the price is Right posted by Gary M on 11/13/2001 at 6:13:21 AM
I stumbled onto a mint Iverson 76 Olympic mens tall frame this year, thought i had something, until i picked that boat anchor up. Folks you need to lift one to beleive it.
its as heavy as a Jaguar. like dead pig iron. i aso had a different brand Olympic model, and it too was made of pig iron. I gut it up wiht a smile and tossed it into the future campells can pile.

   RE:unfortunately the price is Right posted by ChristopherRobin22starmail.com on 11/13/2001 at 8:35:36 PM
Put the thing on e- bay and run it just for kicks. It could surprise us all. Anyway hold on to it.

   RE:unfortunately the price is Right posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/13/2001 at 8:35:50 PM
Put the thing on e- bay and run it just for kicks. It could surprise us all. Anyway hold on to it.