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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PLX 45 1955 posted by: Tom on 12/4/2001 at 4:06:49 AM
Very nice 1955 Peugeot PLX 45 on ebay today. This one is in very nice shape. Should go for a good dollar.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PLX 45 1955 posted by Tom on 12/4/2001 at 4:11:37 AM
1043335458 is the item #

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot PLX 45 1955 posted by Warren on 12/5/2001 at 1:40:48 AM
This is the second time around for this bike. It was up a couple of months ago and I thought it would reach the sky with the Japanese market but I didn't follow the bids. There was a Simplex Juy 60 (?) rear derailleur that went for $900 the other day. Maybe that will stimulate the bidding on this earlier example.

AGE / VALUE:   Ebay Raleigh DL1 & Indian Scout posted by: Tom on 12/4/2001 at 3:54:08 AM
Check out the Raleigh DL1 on ebay 1043111519. Nice bike with 28" wheels and rod brakes.
Another nice bike, a Benotto 1043331732.
Also an Indian Scout frame lightweight 1043224977. Who made this bike, what wheels and is it a Sturmey Archer rear hub that belongs on it? What year would it be?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ebay Raleigh DL1 & Indian Scout posted by Oscar on 12/4/2001 at 9:21:18 PM
The Benotto is the best looking of the bunch. I like the double top tube. What's the reason for it? The DL1 is nice too.

As for the Indian Scout, the seller isn't working too hard to make the bike look saleable. It looks like he trash-picked it. (Nothing wrong with it, but take a decent pic if you want it to sell!)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ebay Raleigh DL1 & Indian Scout posted by Warren on 12/5/2001 at 1:31:38 AM
This is the cynic in me...I think that bike is circa 1990 or later. Benotto was making mexican frames in the late 80's and beyond. The double top tube design resembles the newer design of the genre...Flying Pigeons, the Indian roadsters etc. Older double tubed roadsters tended to have wider spacing and a bend in the tubes. That bike could be new. I'm gonna do a little poking around to see if I can date it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ebay Raleigh DL1 & Indian Scout posted by sam on 12/5/2001 at 3:03:36 AM
You can order that bike from the Benotto factory in Mexico off their web site cost is about $90 new.You can buy Dl-1 clons for about $100 or new frames for $15 in Mex.All red 28"tires too

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by: Gralyn on 12/1/2001 at 2:30:45 AM
Is it my imagination - or do track bikes have handlebars with a greater bend radius than regular road bikes with racing-type handlebars? Or is it typically old, old track bikes with these handlebars? Someone clue me in.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Steven on 12/1/2001 at 4:58:58 AM
Any of the better makers of handlebars tend to make more than one bend, so it is not the track bike in itself that has the bigger radius bars, it is the application. On track bikes, to be able to make the most of aerodynamics that remain virtually constant throughout a race, the bigger radius allows for one position on the drops during racing and a more 'comfortable' upright position for the slowing phase on the fixed gears. Classic makers such as Cinelli offered many models, for example: Giro d'Italia, Criterium, Campione del Mondo... and many widths. Finding the 'right' model can do wonders to your ride. From my recollection of the time when I was more closely immersed in racing, track bikes tended to use bars that were not overly 'square' on the top which permitted un encumbered access to the drops.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Warren on 12/1/2001 at 5:29:58 AM
They are rarely wider than 40 cms and they made the transition from steel to alloy much later than their road counterparts. You can ride anything you want but trackies tend to stay with the traditional "full" bend bars.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Warren Young on 12/1/2001 at 5:33:35 AM
They are rarely wider than 40 cms and they made the transition from steel to alloy much later than their road counterparts. You can ride anything you want but trackies tend to stay with the traditional "full" bend bars.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Keith on 12/3/2001 at 5:20:28 PM
True track bars not only have deeper drop, they are more curvaceous -- downright sexy -- as the curve begins very close to the stem, and they lack the generous straight upper portion of road bars. Cinelli Criterium bars have a similar curve, but have a shallower drop. When I was a kid I put Cinelli track bars on my Mercian road bike for a while because I thought they looked so nice. Not sure but I believe Japanese Keirin (Sp?) racing still requires steel bars.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Keith on 12/3/2001 at 5:33:42 PM
P.S. You might also get confused because there are several different types of track racing, and since the aerodynamics revolution (beginning with Mike Burrow's Lotus) different forms have evolved for different types of races. For example, pursuit bikes now typically have aero bars, whereas match sprint bikes (like champion track rider Marty Nothstein rides) look more like traditional track bikes (including toe clips, albeit with double straps). Go to the library and check out the Pridmore & Hurd Schwinn Bicycles book. On page 65 there's a great pic of the Schwinn team on the late 1930s, with their bikes, with gorgeous old track bars.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by Warren on 12/4/2001 at 12:55:42 AM
I know this is off topic but if you want to have a peek at the current specs on track stuff (and road) go to http://www.businesscycles.com/. It's the high end of the track scene.

Keith, it looks like you are right about the steel bars for Kierin racing but there is one pair of Nitto alloy bars that are also approved.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes Handlebars posted by MichaelW on 12/4/2001 at 5:58:16 PM
The 3TTT Pista at http://www.3ttt.com/ has a pretty deep curve compared to their road or touring drops.

AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by: freespirit on 11/30/2001 at 9:30:37 PM
Today at a 2nd hand store I saw a pre 1975 schwinn super sport in bright yellow for $19.95! Is the bike that was made alongside the paramount and called its fillet brazed cousin. It was in excellent shape except for the dried out cracked brooks saddle. It looked just like a varisty or continental.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Brian L. on 11/30/2001 at 11:59:14 PM
Did you buy it? I love mine.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Fred A on 12/1/2001 at 12:06:11 AM
If you didn't buy it and it's a tall frame, I'll pay you for it and for picking it up. I have two now, one in orange and the other in green.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Fred A on 12/1/2001 at 12:10:28 AM
OOOPS! I meant that I have two Sports Tourer's in those colors (but the frame is the same). By the way, I live on Long Island in NY.


   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by John E on 12/1/2001 at 1:44:12 AM
If it's your size (or a friend's size), grab it at that price! A little Proofhide may salvage the saddle, which is worth the price of admission by itself.

   RE:SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Wings on 12/2/2001 at 4:42:22 AM
Well, today I also purchased a Bright Yellow Super Sport that has all of the original decals. It was made in the early 70's (74 if I remember right). This bike also had a round Chro Molly sticker also at the bottom of the seat tube (near the bottom bracket).

It looks like a varsity with the smooth welds. I see no lugs. It seems a little heavy (It has Excercycle pedals on it however). It has the Varsity style (early) Crank set and rings. It has 400 Derailers. Is this the type of bike you are talking about? Or are there different types of Super Sports?

If this is the same bike you are talking about -- why do you feel it is a good rider?

I love this time of year for finding bikes! I have 5 in my truck outside! These same bikes would cost much more in the spring.

   RE: Sports Tourer/Super Sport frames posted by Eric Amlie on 12/2/2001 at 4:47:01 AM
The Sports Tourer and Super Sport frames are similar but not quite the same. The Super Sport frame has the large crank hanger that accomodates the typical Schwinn one piece Ashtabula cranks while the Sports Tourer has the smaller diameter crank hanger that will fit the three piece cotterless cranks. The Sports Tourer frames (at least the one I have) also has the forged Huret rear dropouts with integral derailleur hanger that the pre '67 Super Sports also had but were replaced with the more pedestrian stamped dropouts without the derailleur hanger in '67 (I think).

   RE:RE:SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Wings on 12/2/2001 at 4:50:06 AM
Price: I got mine for $29.99.
It is very clean with a good clean alloy wheel set.
I may have had a "Schwinn Approved" derailer on it instead of the 400. I had another Schwinn (lugged) with the 400 on it. The other Schwinn was $ 1.95 -- Love it!

   RE:RE:RE:SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Wings on 12/2/2001 at 4:55:49 AM
Thanks for the info Eric.
I have the large bottom bracket hanger that has the astabala one piece crank -- just like the Varsity.
My head badge is the old round Chicago badge.

Does the Sports Tourer have lugs? There is also a Schwinn labled "Extra Light" that has lugs, and three piece crank -- is that on the Sports Tourer?

   RE: SUPER SPORT posted by Eric Amlie on 12/2/2001 at 4:04:09 PM
The Super Sport and Sports Tourer of this era were both fillet brazed chrome-moly frames. No external lugs. I'm pretty sure that all the Schwinns with lugged frames from this time period were the Schwinn Approved imported (Japanese and perhaps Taiwanese?) bikes. This excludes the Paramounts of course which have always had lugged frames (except for the tandems).

AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by: freespirit on 11/30/2001 at 9:30:37 PM
Today at a 2nd hand store I saw a pre 1975 schwinn super sport in bright yellow for $19.95! Is the bike that was made alongside the paramount and called its fillet brazed cousin. It was in excellent shape except for the dried out cracked brooks saddle. It looked just like a varisty or continental.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by oscar@freewheeling.com on 12/1/2001 at 7:56:14 PM
Everyone needs at least one yellow bike.

MISC:   decals posted by: Bob on 11/29/2001 at 11:35:03 PM
Does anyone have any experience "recreating" decals. I have no problem recreating the graphics on my computer, but if one uses inkjet decal paper will this produce satisfactory results or is there some better way to do this.

Also, does anyone have any idea how to incorporate metalics into the home made decals?

When the bike is painted should the new decals be applied before any clear top coats are added?

   RE:MISC:   decals posted by Walter on 11/30/2001 at 1:07:42 AM
I have been working with my colleague the art teacher to try to do the same thing. No reportable results yet. A graphics company in Canada reproduced some d/t decals for me and I'm quite happy. Black/white and a bit over 12 inches long. About 24$ US as I recall.

Clear coat over the decals to be sure. They'll last longer.

   CylcArt posted by John E on 11/30/2001 at 2:34:56 AM
A reputable restorer, such as www.CyclArt.com, can provide you with very good reproduction decals.

   RE:CylcArt posted by Mike Slater on 11/30/2001 at 12:58:38 PM
I tried to get decals from CycleArt after I painted my LeChampion....they refused to sell them to me citing copywrite issues. All I really wanted was the "LeChampion" decal that went on the top tube. I was quite disappointed...after all, they can restore bikes with decals apparently without any issues. Anybody run into this also???

   RE:MISC:   decals posted by Art on 11/30/2001 at 3:17:48 PM
I have a chrome Allego that I need decals for and tried to get them from CycleArt and was told that the only way I could get them was if they restored the bike. The bike didn't need to be restored. Now, I'm not sure if it is a copyright thing as much as an 'I have em and this is what I want for em' thing. Some stuff might be copywritten but I question if all of it is. England really has more sources for decals for English bikes. I've come to understand that often it was cheaper to restore, repaint, redecal an older English bike than to buy a new one. People would return their bikes to the builders who originally built them and essentially have them refinish the bike. In America, it seems that we just bought new bikes...or painted them with brushes or spray cans!

   RE:MISC:   decals posted by Eric Amlie on 11/30/2001 at 4:45:59 PM
There is a framebuilder, Brian Baylis who contributes to the Classic Rendezvous discussion page who is heading up a project to collect classic road bike decals and have them reproduced so that they will be more available to all who are interested in refurbishing their old bikes. There is hope!

   RE:RE:MISC:   decals posted by JimW. on 11/30/2001 at 4:53:09 PM
Our current issue of BikeRod&Kustom
shows a source for computer-output decal paper. It's in the Off-Topic section. The process will do the job for you. If you mask the printed-out decal, you can spray areas of it with metallic spray-can paint. Clear-coating decals is always a good idea.

   RE:MISC:   decals posted by Bob on 11/30/2001 at 6:11:35 PM
My experience with CycleArt corresponds with what everyone has said. It's an excellent company, but a CycleArt restored bike is not the same as an original bike with a decal replaced.

I am not an authority on copyright, but it seems to me that if one owns the bike one can restore the decals without violating anyone's property equity. Selling them would be a different matter.

Thanks for your comments.

   decals posted by John E on 11/30/2001 at 9:13:15 PM
Perhaps the big concern is forgery; we have recently seen a fake Bianchi on eBay. I do not know their current policy, but Reynolds used to issue replacement 531 stickers (always the first thing to go, right?) only to bike shops, and only after being provided with the make, model, and serial number of the recipient bicycle.

Bob implicit raised an interesting philosophical question for which I do not have a ready answer: can we still consider a bike "original" if it has reproduction decals over the original paint, or do we need to hold out for rare (or completely unavailable) NOS factory-replacement decals, instead?

   RE:decals, What to avoid out there posted by Chris on 12/1/2001 at 4:29:58 PM
The thing you want avoid happening is paying a lot of money just for these decals alone. Also, if the bike looks artifically new, cheesy and/or too glossy then that is the worst outcome. Many would prefer to go out and find another machine in really nice origonal condition, complete with origonal paint shades and decals and enjoy that. A lot of the times lovely origonals are out there but people don't know how to find them or are too impatient. Instead, they send off the bike hoping that somebody will use their magic wand on just anybody's old bike. Somebody elses bike, whom they have never met, and who likely is not a close personal friend. In exchange for money that they can get out of you in some other way, doing something else less bothersome/time consuming. Usually, it has to be a personal bike, or a close personal friend they wouldn't dare let down. A project they are excited about and not just another order to knock out. Try getting them to really blaze a trail of workmanship and quality and they look at you like you are being a pain and next thing you hear about is, how many other orders are in the works waiting. You can throw a lot of money at someone but they aren't going to go out of their way and knock themselves out for just a total stranger. Customer or no. They don't have to, there are other customers who aren't so picky. It's likely you won't go to the bother of doing it over, more waiting, more money, the effort taken to argue it, and I can schmooze or intimidate them in my back office and it'll be fine, they think. Throwing more money at it, hoping that makes it right, seldom works.They don't respect you,They feel being controlled and resent you trying to buy them.Never mind you are paying good money for a service. Instead, you make it worse. They think they have an idiot on their hands and they just can take you for a ride.Where else are you going to go? When it becomes a contest instead of a "work together" then it's all over, and you just need to get out the door with it. After paying all that money and going thru hassle in waiting and still having somebody coming up to the bike and mentioning that your decals look wrong is unacceptable. Usually, if they could have done it better they would have the first time around. Example, "The bill on the Raleigh heron bird looks too long." Who wants to hear that?
I think of the movie "Bean" where Rowan Atkinson tries to repair Whistler's Mother hoping that, when it's unveiled nobody will notice. He ends up pasting a copy in the frame and dresses it up.
While the marred origonal is quietly taken home where only Bean can love it. I saw a repainted Schwinn Pea Picker at a friends house once, and the rest of us could not tell if it was new origonal from the box or a repaint. He paused and said, "No, that's a restored and repaint job." We couldn't believe it, it was that close! I kept asking "Where's the origonal box?"
Thats what you want when you send out one of your machines, isn't it? I see better restoration jobs on diffrent vintage motorcycles than I do on some bicycles.

   RE:RE:decals, What to avoid out there posted by desmo on 12/2/2001 at 10:46:04 PM
CycleArt's copyright explanation is obviously a red herring arguement. As part of the restoration, repro decals are included in the cost of the restoration and hence sold anyway. I don't blame them for not selling their repro transfers, but the stated reason just doesn't wash to me.

   RE:RE:RE:decals, What to avoid out there posted by Skip Echert on 12/5/2001 at 5:33:09 AM
Hello Desmo -

Most bike painters have an additional view. If they see and verify the original bike, and apply the transfers themselves, they know no counterfeiting is being done.


FOR SALE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by: Jim on 11/29/2001 at 7:48:22 PM
Early Supercourse, 53.5cm along the seat tube, deep gold, unfortunately Reynolds decal is long gone, beautiful fancy Nervex style lugs, nice headbadge, Brampton bottom bracket, Carlton "C" seat pin, Weinmann center pulls and levers w/ white Carlton hoods, new white cork bar wrap, Weinmann concave 700c rims (actually an appropriate update / upgrade), Suntour 6spd freewheel, GB bars and stem. Simplex dt shifers and derailleurs, fluted steel crankset looks like a cottered Stronglight, however stamped w/ Sir Walter Raleigh w/ "R" nuts on the cotters, chrome replacement fork w/ fancy crown(no damage to frame)Brooks Professional. Three small dings in the top tube, decals are faded. This bike has been well ridden, upgraded and maintained. BB & headset repacked Oct '00. I've had it for over a year, it has been raced by me, but not hard, in two bi-athalons and who knows who else in its past. New tires this Summer, front Simplex Prestge der. is NOS. It's not all original, but quite nice nonetheless. It always draws compliments from those who know what it is. $150 + shipping. Also would consider trade for a 58cm Italian or English frameset w/ Gip or Campy dropouts. As seat height in pix show, 53.5 is a bit too small for me and is my sole motivation to sell / trade this sweet, old Raleigh. Please email for photos. I sell on ebay regularly, see my feedback under "jbanahan@msn.com"

AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by: john on 11/28/2001 at 10:38:44 PM
I have a viscount with the original death fork, aswell as the replacement fork that was mailed to me. is this bike worth anything? should I dig it out of storage and ride it?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by Ed on 11/29/2001 at 2:15:15 PM
I have a 72-73 Lambert viscount with the death fork.I've ridden it about 200 miles since acquiring it last June it's very light and I have no complaint with ride or handling.The thing that makes it most interesting to me is it's rarity,at least in this area,I log between 2an3k miles on my bikes most years and I've never seen seen another Lambert on any of my rides.Incidently I paid the former owner $50.00 for bike and had to replace two broken spokes in the rear wheel to make it roadworthy.Good luck with your Lambert,I've enjoyed mine so far.

   Viscount posted by John E on 11/29/2001 at 3:28:55 PM
If the frame fits you well, by all means dig it out of storage and ride it with the replacement fork. Lambert/Viscount is an interesting, quirky bit of bicycle history. I don't want to guess the value -- keep checking eBay, Bicycle Trader, etc., but unfortunately the sample size will be statistically minuscule.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by Walter on 11/29/2001 at 4:54:42 PM
Sheldon Brown has a good article on Lambert/Viscount somewhere in his extensive site. I think it's under the"Old Bikes" link.

A friend of mine was "into" Viscounts in the late 70s. The neat thing was that with a Viscount you could get on a 21-22lb bike (about as good as it got then) for maybe a little less than $500. This was when the "big dogs" from Italy went for a princely 1000-1100$ or so. Truth be told the SunTour and early Shimano 600 shifted at least as well as the N Record on the Italians.

Of course those "big dogs" are still worth a 1000$ or more and I doubt a Viscount will draw its original 500$ So go ride it and enjoy it b/c they were nice riders.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by Ed on 11/29/2001 at 8:32:47 PM
John: you also might want to check out Dale Brown's Lambert 'Viscount artical at http://www.classicrendevous.com/British/British./htm lots of good information and pictures there.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by john on 11/30/2001 at 8:29:48 PM
THanks for the info about my Viscount

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   viscount posted by john on 11/30/2001 at 8:32:01 PM
THanks for the info about my Viscount

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by: Gralyn on 11/29/2001 at 11:30:12 AM
I have an old Hercules...here's the story: I bought it off an old man who told me his father used to race it...and he indicated that the bike used to have a fixed gear...but he had replaced it with a coaster brake. He said the frame dated back to the 20's - but after I began removing layers of paint - I found that it was a Hercules/Raleigh/AMF - which puts it no older than 1960. But some information I am curious about...I would like to try out riding a fixed-gear bike. Is it possible to convert a coaster brake to a fixed-gear? How did the old man do it? (I can't ask the old man - because it was at a community yard sale in a small town - so I have no way to determine who he was or where he lives)Do you replace the entire wheel? Do you replace the hub? Do you replace the insides of the hub? If you replace the hub - does that mean you have to separate the spokes from the rim and hub? (The front and rear rims are the matching in age/style, etc.). Incidentally, it has 26 X 1 3/8" wheels. It has Ideale Leather saddle. Cotter pin cranks. It is remarkably lightweight, too....to have 1 3/8" wheels. Any advice on the hub - and the fixed gear thing?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by Warren on 11/29/2001 at 1:44:19 PM
You'll have to start with another hub. Find an old 5 speed hub with a solid axle. Lose the freewheel, add a cog, BB lockring and some loctite. The best method is lacing a wheel with a true track hub. My only misgiving with this is the nature of the bike isn't going to give you the best fixed ride. An old road frame would seat you more directly over the pedals and allow you to use clips/straps to benefit more from the fixed transmission. That's my opinion based on the fact that I commute a late 50's Dunelt fixed gear conversion. I love it...but my centurion track bike will kick it's butt. Not because of the weight, but rather the positioning.

BTW, if it was from the 20's or 30's, it would likely have rear facing track ends. The horizontal drops found on Sports bikes work just fine however. Lots of room for chain adjustment and cog swapping.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by MichaelW on 11/29/2001 at 4:29:29 PM
Lots of info at

For safety, most fixed gear hubs have a lockring with a reversed thread. As you pedal you tighten the cog, as you brake, you tighten the lock-ring.
You are probably best off with a new rear wheel rather than trying to rejig your current wheel. The only reason for breaking up your current wheel for a rebuild is if you cant find another rim to fit. For the rim size, you may be able to make do with a modern size 26", since brake shoe positioning is not an issue, in which case, tyre choice will be improved.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by Gralyn on 11/29/2001 at 5:08:30 PM
I may just leave this bike as-is, and try to find me an old vintage track bike. Of course, I am always looking out for those - but you don't generally run across them except on e-bay, etc. Or, I could maybe find a frame and build me one. Any suggestions?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by Keith on 11/29/2001 at 7:15:50 PM
English 3-speed frames are great for fixed gear conversions because if you put 700c or 27" wheels on them, you end up with a fairly high bottom bracket. Also, the standard 46 tooth chainring is a good size for winding up with a mi-range gear, with a 16 or 17 tooth cog on the rear. The RI 3-speeds used very long arm steel sidepulls, and there's plenty of room for larger wheels. I'd look for a garage sale special with a crummy frame for wheels. Any rear wheel that's threaded for a freewheel will do. Look in the archives here for more about fixed gear, especially fixed gear safety.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by Keith on 11/29/2001 at 7:26:44 PM
As for real track bikes-- there great. I still have mine from 1974. But the ride is pretty rough because the frame angles are steep and the wheelbase is short. A few weeks ago I was riding to work on my fixed gear Morobecane, and guy riding a new Bianchi Pista entered the path on a fork. We rode along together, lauding fixed gear. But I could tell he was getting rattled on the less than smooth portions of the path, whereas I was pretty comfy on my longer, more relaxed geometry Moto. So the bike you pick should depends on what kind of riding you plan to do. A track bike AND a roadworthy fixie would be the best solution.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Track Bikes / Fixed Gears posted by sam on 12/5/2001 at 2:43:42 AM
Those old schwinn exercise bikes have an aloy hub with a fixed gear / 36 holes hub.

WANTED:   Maclean Featherweight posted by: Ian. on 11/29/2001 at 9:44:36 AM
Hi, maybe my tastes are a little too vintage for most of the posts on this page but it is always worth an ask I guess. I have just picked up from the family of the original owner a Maclean Featherweight bought from the London factory in about 1936 or 37. Paid the equivalent of about US$30 so I am pretty pleased with my find. Transfers and all are original, the only thing that is not is the rear brake so I am looking for a Resilion clamp on rear caliper, lever and cable. The cable is the two into one type. Anyone able to help or to offer more info on the make? Thanks, Ian.

   RE:WANTED:   Maclean Featherweight posted by Warren Meade on 12/1/2001 at 12:20:19 PM
Are you sure it came with a rear brake. My (sketchy) knowledge of the era suggests that they often came only with a front brake and fixed wheel. I had a thirties sunbeam with only front brake (resilion) built for time trialling.
Warren Meade (Australia)

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Maclean Featherweight posted by Ian on 12/1/2001 at 7:04:48 PM
I guess it is hard to be sure of anything after 65 years but I bought it from the son-in-law and widow of the original owner and they told me that the rear brake fitted (a G.B.Sprite) was a replacement for the original fitted in the late '50s when a part could not be found for the original. The bike has unusual shaped road type drop outs not track ends and it was bought for touring so I think the AM Sturmey, which is correct period, is probably original. I also do have some fixed wheel time trial bikes with a front brake only but they have track type drop outs. I still ride fixed wheel in masters age group time trials but we need a handicap system based on the combined age of bike and rider! I have the G.B. brake plus some Mafac and Wienmann bits or other stuff such as 1" pitch sprockets or Williams sprockets to swap if anyone can help with the Resilion brake. Cheers, Ian.

AGE / VALUE:   Another collector question posted by: Walter on 11/29/2001 at 2:26:45 AM
eBay# 1037031358

Am I correct that someone got a real nice deal here? If it's one of you guys--congrats!

I've seen Masis go for $1100 more than that and not meet reserve. What do I need to know if something like this comes up again?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot tubing... posted by: Glen on 11/29/2001 at 1:53:07 AM
What would likely be the rationale behind Peugeot specifying Vitus tubing (as found in my '80 PFN10) instead of Reynolds product as found in much of the rest of Peugeot's lineup? I understand the former is a Cr-Mo alloy and the latter Mn-Mo, but unless tubing dimensions varied there shouldn't be any appreciable ride characteristic differences between frames of the same geometry. Was Vitus tubing less expensive? And how could Peugeot use tubing from two rival manufacturers?

   Vitus vs Reynolds posted by John E on 11/29/2001 at 4:02:23 AM
Where do you live, Glen? It would be instructive to compare my 1980 PKN-10 (d.b. Reynolds 531) with your 1980 PFN-10. (I'll bet the graphics are identical, except for the tubing pedigree decal.) The old tradition/superstition, which Sheldon resoundingly rejects, was that Reynolds 531 gave a more resilient ride than the various CrMos. Peugeot probably offered both versions as a marketing ploy, for the diehards who claimed they could feel a difference.

In stiffness, my Peugeot indeed fits nicely between my Capo (also Reynolds 531) and my Bianchi (Columbus CrMo), but I think the difference is almost entirely attributable to significant differences in frame geometry.

   RE:Vitus vs Reynolds posted by Glen on 11/29/2001 at 5:42:39 AM
A riding comparison would be welcome indeed. However, even if you lived in Calgary as I do, John, I doubt we would be able to detect any real subtleties in ride characteristics through the recent fairly heavy dump of snow...Oh well, out comes the Marin.

From what I've read, assuming everything else identical (in particular tubing dimensions and frame geometry), bikes constructed of different steel alloys will ride exactly the same. It is through manipulation of tubing shape, diameter, and wall thickness that bike designers can arrive at a desired set of ride characteristics.

   RE:Vitus vs Reynolds posted by Glen on 11/29/2001 at 5:43:56 AM
A riding comparison would be welcome indeed. However, even if you lived in Calgary as I do, John, I doubt we would be able to detect any real subtleties in ride characteristics through the recent fairly heavy dump of snow...Oh well, out comes the Marin.

From what I've read, assuming everything else identical (in particular tubing dimensions and frame geometry), bikes constructed of different steel alloys will ride exactly the same. It is through manipulation of tubing shape, diameter, and wall thickness that bike designers can arrive at a desired set of ride characteristics.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot tubing... posted by MichaelW on 11/29/2001 at 1:21:51 PM
According to Tony Oliver's "Touring Bikes", the wall thickness of Vitus tubing falls between 531C and 531ST, making it a good choice for general purpose light touring bikes, and a useful option for custom framebilders.
That advice was of a similar vintage to your bike. Is Vitus still in the steel tubing game?

   a marketing question posted by John E on 11/29/2001 at 3:42:01 PM
Just a random thought from someone who works in product design and strategic marketing: would an all-French Peugeot with French-made Vitus tubing and perhaps even an Ideale saddle sell better in France, whereas Americans and Brits might want a Reynolds/Brooks version, instead?

   RE:a marketing question posted by desmo on 11/29/2001 at 8:26:40 PM
It's worth noting that all steels (and iron too!) have virtually identical moduli of elasticity, so the dimensions and shapes, not the material specced determines the ride characteristics. Yes, gas pipe and 531 are similar in this respect! And Vitus made excellent steel tubesets, as a French maker probably only second to Excel.

FOR SALE:   road bicycle posted by: paul nisula on 11/26/2001 at 11:51:40 PM
N.O.S. Ross Super Grand Tour Professional 21 inch steel frame, steel pedals all else Shimano 600 group, components to include crank, chainwheels, brakes, levers and Araya 27 by 1&1/4 rims. Bicycle manufactured in Allentown, PA ca 1980 has not even 10 miles on it. Would make GREAT CHRISTMAS GIFT include instruction and assembly book, I want $150 or best offer and can e-mail a photo contact Paul nisu@prodigy.net

   frame tubing? posted by John E on 11/27/2001 at 2:33:22 PM
Potential buyers -- don't let the humble pedigree fool you -- Ross did make some respectable road bikes in the early 1980s.

Paul -- are there any Columbus, Reynolds 531, 4130, double-butted CrMo, etc. stickers indicating the composition of the frame tubing?

   RE:frame tubing? posted by paul nisula on 11/28/2001 at 12:22:12 AM
there is a decal on the saddle post down tube which reads: "tempered 1020 steel lugged frame Allentown, PA" Additional info, quick release hubs front and rear and frame mounted derailleur levers. This is really a nice budget priced bicycle! sincerely, Paul Nisula

   1020 frame tubing posted by John E on 11/28/2001 at 12:58:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, metallurgists, but I think 1020 is just basic carbon steel, making this a Peugeot UO-8 class bike. It's probably a decent enough transportation bike, but does not warrant the model designation, "Professional."

   RE:1020 frame tubing posted by Eric Amlie on 11/28/2001 at 10:17:56 PM
You're right about 1020 being plain carbon steel but it's not quite the bottom. Refering to Schwinns which are the only bikes I know anything about I think the Varsinentals were made from 1010 steel. The early Japanese import LeTours were made from the 1020 which was incrementally better.

   Metalurgy II posted by Stacey on 11/28/2001 at 11:03:59 PM
I have a pair of (US) Raleigh Capri Road Bikes, from the early 70s or so I'm told. There is a sticker on the seat tube near the bottom bracket stating the Frame composition as being 410 steel. The only on-line information I could find described 410 as "Stainless Steel". Is this so... are these framse made of Stainless Steel? Thanks in advance!

In the Wind,

   RE:FOR SALE:   road bicycle posted by Ed on 11/29/2001 at 2:39:15 PM
Stacy:410 stainless contains carbon and is most often referred to as stainless iron.True stainless is made from 300 series steel.If you placed a magnet against the frames of your Raleighs it would stick.If the frames were made of true stainless steel(type 300)the magnet would not attach. There is no carbon in true stainless steel. Cheers, Ed.

   RE:FOR SALE:   road bicycle posted by Ken on 12/9/2001 at 8:56:56 PM
I bought this exact model new in 79. The 600 group was and still is outstanding, but the frame hasn't gotten any lighter over the years. Total bike weighs near 29 lbs.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Anyone know of French made LeForez? posted by: Art on 11/26/2001 at 6:20:54 PM
I have a hand made French road bike built in France by a company named "LeForez" that I purchased new in early 1973. It is their "Racing Deluxe", but I know little else about the history of the brand or company who manufactured it.

It is my understanding this brand (LeForez) competed with Peugeot. The store owner was also a commerical pilot and brought the bikes back from Paris himself. He told me he knew of no one else importing this make, and that he brought about two dozen of this brand to the states.

Anyone ever heard of this brand (LeForez) or know any thing about the company? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Art

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Anyone know of French made LeForez? posted by Bob on 11/26/2001 at 7:22:09 PM
The best way to evaluate the "quality" of an otherwise unknown French bike is by the type and level of its components and frame materials.

Mr. Raymond Henry, coauthor of the Dancing Chain will also respond to letters. He gave me a bit of information about my Sutter which was helpful -- but be prepared for a reply in French.

AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by: Walter on 11/26/2001 at 4:13:24 PM

As a history teacher I'm intrigued. Anybody know anything about Soviet lightweights? They often imitated other European makes so if this is a "knock-off" so to speak, what is being imitated.

I'm intrigued and might even bid though I usually avoid reserve auctions.

   Russian bicycle posted by John E on 11/27/2001 at 10:20:16 PM
Since Russian (or what little I remember of it) is my third language, I came very close to bidding on this bike. (I already have an Austrian bike and a German car, to cover my other non-native tongue.) It drew one opening, sub-reserve, bid of $50. An equivalent British, French, or Italian machine would be worth perhaps ten times as much. I wish the pictures had been clearer, and I have been unable to find an English equivalent for "S ee ch m n oo k," the Roman transliteration of the name on the downtube, although the bird-like graphic on the head badge may be a hint.

The political historical connection is fascinating. I wonder if Putin is going to ask Bush for a Ford pickup truck ...

   RE:Russian bicycle posted by Warren on 11/27/2001 at 11:55:56 PM
I find it hard to believe that one could take such meaningless pictures. The story sounds like a farce. Pass.

   RE:Russian bicycle posted by Warren on 11/28/2001 at 12:08:30 AM
I reread the listing. OK, I'm feeling cynical today. Maybe the story is true. Just the deep historical significance is a tad overblown

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by Walter on 11/28/2001 at 12:16:32 AM
I did not bid. I was going to put in the 50$ opener just for curiosity but it slipped my mind and then I went off to teach my night class. We covered the Cold War btw.

Warren, I know of no way to confirm the story for sure. The Soviets weren't that short of cash and I can't see something as relatively strange to 1950s Americans as a bike with a derailleur and those style handlebars trading for a whole lot of grain. Maybe as a diplomatic friendship gift? Probably not many Soviet imports during that period.

   Canadian connection, perhaps? posted by John E on 11/28/2001 at 11:14:25 PM
It may have been a diplomatic friendship gift, like the Colnago which was given to the Pope, or perhaps it came into the U.S. through Canada. I wish the pictures had been clearer, particularly since the seller made such a big deal about the good condition of the Cyrillic text. Sheldon would like the moustache handlebars. I wonder whether the seller is going to relist or just let it go for $50.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by Walter on 11/29/2001 at 2:19:13 AM
Canada is a possibility. The Cold War wasn't quite as intense orth of the border. Probably some sort of gift. I'd guess the seller's story is accurate just that the bike(s) were a gift not an actual barter.

If the seller lets it go for the 50$ I don't want to know as I was planning on trying 75$ just forgot to bid, That and the bidder seems to be a reseller judging by the name.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by DBean on 11/29/2001 at 2:54:47 AM
I planned to show a picture of the Cyrillic text to a Russian emigre in my chorus, but he failed to show up. If you're interested in the bike, send the seller an offer. You don't have to wait for it to be relisted.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by brandt on 11/29/2001 at 9:12:02 PM
The story sounds like an urban legend. I live in Iowa and have a bike like this. It's true that Khruschev came over here in 1959 and did visit the Garst farm, but I doubt he brought along any bicycles. In 1972 or 73 an Allen Bratrud from Kennsett, Iowa (near Mason City) imported 1000 bikes from the Soviet Union - 500 10 speeds and 500 3 speeds like the one shown on E-bay. I bought a 3 speed from him in 1974 and is identical to the E-bay item. Mine has 1000's of miles on it and is really beat up looking - the E-bay bike looks like it just came out of the box. At that time I also convinced my father, who had a bike shop, to try and sell a few. He bought 10 (2 crates) from Bratrud but had a hard time selling them. They just weren't popular. When he sold the business in the later 70's, I think he still had 2 or 3 in the boxes yet.
When I bought mine, Bratrud had already sold all the 10 speeds - remember the bicycle boom in the early 70's and 10 speeds were selling like hot cakes. Anyhow, he was more or less stuck with all the 3 speeds.

In was going through Kennsett during RAGBRAI in 1987 and stopped in to see him. By that time, one of his buildings had burned down with about 300 3 speeds in it. The only Russian bikes he had left was one 3 speed and one 10 speed hanging on the wall which he said he was going to keep.

So of the 200 left, take away those that have gone to the junkyards and landfills over the years, there aren't very many left. I contacted Bratrud again somewhere around 1998, looking for a 10 speed. He said he had one extra one and sold it to me. So him and I may have the only 10 speed/3speed pairs in existance.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by Jim V on 11/30/2001 at 3:47:08 AM
A helpful Russian-speaking colleague in my office looked at the photo of the script: it says "Sputnik"! Is it possible that God rides one of these (maybe the 10-speed model)?

   Sputnik bicycle posted by John E on 12/1/2001 at 1:48:39 AM
Brandt, thank you very much for setting the record straight on the Russian bikes. What can you tell us about the derailleurs, cranks, and other mechanicals? The 3-speed version must have been about 15 years behind the times, although at least it had center-pull brakes. (Are they Weinmanns or Russian copies thereof?)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What are your thoughts? posted by brandt on 12/3/2001 at 4:13:58 AM
Equipment - the 3 speed has 700c rims, alloy, with low flange hubs, but solid axles with nuts. gearing is 48 front and 16-20-24 rear. the rear gears and hub are one unit, not a removable freewheel. The tool kit contains spare pawls and springs if you ever need to overhaul it.
The original seat was a leather cover over horse hair and springs. Both bikes have the same brakes - a copy of a really old style Mafac. Both have the same rear derailler -a copy of the Campy Gran Sport.

The 10 speed is set up for racing with front chain rings of 51 and 48 and a rear cluster of 13-15-17-19-21. Gives you a low gear of 61.7 inches WOW!

Front derailer is just plain weird. Sew-up tires too. If you can translate Russian: in big letters on the down tube
"CTAPT-WOCCE" Many parts on both bikes are stamped "XB3" and the brakes are labeled "XAPBKOB" Both bikes are very light, although I have never weighed them.

P.S. The one that was for sale on E-bay - does anyone know where the seller is located. I'd like to look at it if it's not too far from here.

   Russian bike posted by John E on 12/3/2001 at 6:26:55 PM
I thought the old PX-10s had stiff gears (52-45/14-21). However, if I had only 3 gears available, I might actually choose something akin to the 54-65-81 combination on your 3-speed.

Cyrillic text can be tricky, because the script versions of some letters differ radically from their print equivalents; that's why I missed "Sputnik" the first time around. Assuming it is block print, XAPBKOB would be pronounced, "Charv kov," and XB-3 is "ChV-3," for whatever that's worth. Thanks again for sharing.