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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

FOR SALE:   We've got some stuff up on Ebay posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 1/24/2001 at 5:11:01 AM
A Peugeot with a Sturmey-Archer S-5 hub at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1108569666

A nice Ideale leather saddle at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=547665744

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com

AGE / VALUE:   parkpre race frame posted by: russell on 1/23/2001 at 9:01:17 PM
Does anyone know anything on parkpre team frames. Have a rainbow coloured parkpre frame made of tange prestige tubing. When I purchased it used I was told it was supposed to be an actual team frame used by one of the team members. It has very odd geomitry with a 53ctc seat tube and a 55.5ctc top tube. On the rear stay it has the name Robert L Colbe? not to sure of the last name, the lettering is in cursive. Notas concerned with value since I got the bike complete with campy veloce 9sp for 600.00 but more interested in background info on it. Any help is appreciated. Thanx.

AGE / VALUE:   brake hunt report posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/23/2001 at 3:07:50 PM
One Altenberger Synchron, one Mafac marked dual forged.a Winemann (stamped into the alloy not stickered,) One odd C.L.B. A Bridgestone disc brake unit N.O.S. but this is missing some hardware that goes with it. Bridgestone made disc units? The few rod brake pieces that were hidden underneath told me that I was never patient enough to look thru it all, so I sat for 2 hours and sorted. A lot of later- day Winemann and cheap junk. A few big brakes that look like they may fit a balloon project and a few models with extra long reach.
Need misc brake parts? e- mail me. I may already have it or I can run and look.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   brake hunt report posted by Warren on 1/24/2001 at 3:22:20 PM
Christopher...you mention that the CLB brake was odd. It could be one of the self-actuating brakes. As you pull the brake lever, the arms toe in and the rim actually pulls the brake tighter given a very non linear and dramatic response. If ever there was a brake that worked too well, this is them. They were very trick and very expensive. One brake would suit a fixed gear french bike. I pulled a mint pair of these CLB2s with levers off off a bottom end bent frame Peugot at the Goodwill. The brakes were worth 20 times the cost of the bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   brake hunt report posted by ChristopherRobin on 1/25/2001 at 9:51:49 AM
Mafac and C.L.B. came out with some cool, funky strange, unique things. They all did at one time or another.

AGE / VALUE:   decals for my "sorrato" (spelling) campi large flange n-record hubs posted by: Mark on 1/23/2001 at 3:08:13 PM
I would REALLY like to find out where I could obtain some new decals for my old bike! I love it and want to bring it up to speed cosmetically.

Also I have been searching for a long time to find a reasonable price on the old campi large flange hubs with the grease hole and clips located on the center of the spindle. If any one has a clue please contact I would buy for a decent price. I dont wanted parts from the guy on ebay the sells stipped stuff either. Thanks to all who reply. Later Mark.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by: Paul on 1/23/2001 at 6:31:45 AM
I would like to know if this bike was an English import or made in the USA.It has a city of Belmont permit.The only reference to them on the net is from USA.When did they stop being made.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Keith on 1/23/2001 at 9:05:29 AM
There is a Retro Raleighs site -- sorry I don't have the address handy -- which has specs for the Super Course as well as online reproductions of Raleigh catalogs. PLEASE keep in mind, that the attention the Retro Raleigh group lavishes upon the Super Course is NOT meant to imply in any way that they believe it is collectable. They have said in the past that people making this mistake makes them feel like they've had a rabid animal dropped in their laps, and we don't want that, do we? But do go to the site.

   Raleigh Super Course posted by John E on 1/23/2001 at 1:11:33 PM
The Super Course, a made-in-Nottingham mid-grade "10-speed," was produced during the late 1960s and early 1970s, before Raleigh was sold to an American firm. Because of high production volumes and an unremarkable mixed-tube frame, even a clean Super Course is probably only marginally more collectible than a Schwinn Continental or a Peugeot U0-8 of the same era. Collectibility aside, the Super Course, particularly with upgraded cranks, nicely fits my paradigm for a competent commuting or transportation machine.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Keith on 1/24/2001 at 7:07:52 AM
I'm fond of the early 70s Super Course model because it had 531 main tubes, Nervex Pro lugs, and chromed rear triangle. But the stock Simplex or Huret equipment was pretty bad. The later models were Suntour equiped, plain and generic, and although probably more reliable, they lack the earlier model's character. (There's a '78 on ebay that fits this description.) That being said, I agree with John that the Super Course may represent a sort of bottom rung of what might be deemed collectable.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Eli Comming on 2/19/2001 at 4:13:18 PM
one question no, two question 1. is it green and does it nevar sport crankset.

MISC:   Paramount P-10 picture posted by: Frank on 1/22/2001 at 11:57:48 AM
I recently purchased a like-new RML frame and fork (silver-brazed, Everest lugs, Reynolds 531 ST tubing, etc.) I had it built up and it is a really nice riding bike. So nice, in fact, I choose to ride it over my newer Serotta Ti!

When I spoke with the original owner (a Schwinn shop owner in AZ) he indicated it was built of Reynolds 531 ST tubing he had bought in the late 60's and preserved until he could have it built into a custom built bike (finally got one built around 1995!)

He said it was built with the same geometry as a early to mid-1960's Paramount P-10. Does anyone have the dimensions of a 54 c-c P-10 and/or a picture so I can see how closely my bike resembles the P-10?

Thanks for your help in advance!


   RE:MISC:   Paramount P-10 picture posted by Keith on 1/24/2001 at 10:22:51 AM
This may not be of much help but my 61cm (24") 1976 P-15 has 44cm chainstays, which I think accounts for a lot of the comfort and smoothness I perceive when I ride it. That compares to 44cm for my 71 Raleigh International (also known for its smooth ride); 43cm for my mid-80s Trek 400 (typical "sports touring" geometry); 42cm for my early 70s Mercian Professional, and 40cm for my 1984 Cannondale (more typical of modern road bikes). Go to the Rivendell website for an explanation of why longer chainstays translate into more comfort (aside from the obvious slightly longer wheelbase), and also go to Sheldon Browns recent article on Frame Materials, which dispels the long-standing myth that frames like the P-15 or International are less efficient because they are "whippy." I believe (though I'm not certain) that the P-10 and P-15 frames were the same, but the the 10 was a double (10 speed) and the 15 was a triple (15 speed).

   RE:RE:MISC:   Paramount P-10 picture posted by Keith on 1/24/2001 at 10:27:02 AM
P.S. The Rivendell article is titled, "The U Factor," and is under the archived Reader articles.

AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/22/2001 at 10:32:44 AM
When going thru a whole wall of stems, what should I be looking for? What stems would you like me to get for you.

Will you guys please spit out some names and descriptions to aid me in your hunting? Who wants what?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by Brian L. on 1/22/2001 at 11:17:06 AM
Cinellis, anything french, anything chromed/lugged, anything with a badge.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/23/2001 at 3:06:00 PM
This one is Milremo. Should I bring it home?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by Brian L. on 1/23/2001 at 3:49:30 PM
Does it appear to be cold-forged, or is it simply cast (i.e. cheap and more likely to fail)?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by Brian L. on 1/23/2001 at 7:12:28 PM
Even better, is it chromed steel?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stems, stems, stems, what ones to get? posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/24/2001 at 7:22:46 AM
alloy so it is cast and polished.

AGE / VALUE:   Identification posted by: Carey on 1/22/2001 at 4:55:32 AM
I originally posted this in balloon and middleweight section . The chainguard has AutoMoto on it . It has26x1.38 tires. A shamrock or fourleaf clover on headbadge. I think its European . Would like to know a little about it. Collectability, Value, etc.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Identification posted by ChristopherRobin on 1/22/2001 at 10:28:57 AM
English or Canadian

I have old booklets and magazines with Automoto bikes and parts. Pictures of old models

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Identification posted by Chuck Schmidt on 1/22/2001 at 6:45:36 PM
French! Octavio Bottecchia won the 1924 and '25 TdF on Automoto. Went out of business in the late 1950s ? I have two photocopied vintage catalogs available on my website at http://www.velo-retro.com

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Columbus Tretubi posted by: Jim Hultman on 1/22/2001 at 2:21:47 AM
I have an eighties Faggin with Columbus Tretubi tubing. Anybody recall the specific mix of tubes? I think it's a mix of SL & SP tubes, but am having trouble verifying this. It's a very nicely built frameset, with plenty of the details I've seen on SL & SLX frames.

   Columbus SL + seamed CrMo posted by John E on 1/22/2001 at 7:31:10 AM
My 1982 Bianchi has the same tubeset. According to the editor of Utah Cycling's Classic Corner, who has owned several Bianchis, the TreTubi tubeset comprises a Columbus SL (seamless CrMo) main triangle ("3-tubes" = "tre-tubi") and seamed CrMo forks and stays. This makes it similar to my 1980 Peugeot "almost a PX-10" PKN-10E, which has seamed forks and stays with a Reynolds 531 main triangle ("3 tubes renforces," i.e., butted). The big difference is that one can clearly see the seams on the backs of the Peugeot forks, whereas they have been sanded and finished to the point of invisibility on the Bianchi. (The Peugeot also has a brazing void where the chainstay overlaps the left dropout, and the Bianchi's paint job seems significantly tougher and smoother, as well.)

Seams on the backs of the fork blades may add a small amount of weight, but I have never been able to notice any impact on resilience or ride quality. Since seamed tubing is cheaper to manufacture, mixed tubesets were very popular on next-to-the-top models of the 1960s-80s, with full seamless Columbus or Reynolds 531 reserved for the top-of-the-line Raleigh Professionals, Peugeot PX-10s, Bianchi Specialissimas, etc.

   RE:Columbus SL + seamed CrMo posted by Jim Hultman on 1/22/2001 at 10:37:08 PM
Thanks John; that was the definitive answer I was looking for! Jim

AGE / VALUE:   HiRays Made in France posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/21/2001 at 10:07:50 AM
"HiRays" Made in France. 3 cog derailur cluster Somebody tell me what I have please.

AGE / VALUE:   Itala made in Italy? posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/21/2001 at 9:58:44 AM
Universal model 61 Brakes: are they anything special? I'm parting out a Itala bike, saving the fork and headset parts, bottom bracket stuff and the cottered crank, Campy Vincenza shifters(isn't Vincenza the lowest of the low? The headset is unusual but it is used and who would want it? Stem is a t.t.t. and I have no knowledge of this. Nothing looks all that special and the white frame is so chipped and it looks like junk to me. I'm going to salvage parts off it. And I wonder why I even stoped the truck.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:  What do I do? posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 1/21/2001 at 10:07:02 AM
These lugs in thre front if the bike are chromed, the part where it meets the bottom bracket are cut away a tad fancy too. This could be restored but I still think it is junk. But them again, What do I know about Italian Bikes or the threading? Nothing, thats what!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Itala made in Italy? posted by Walter on 1/21/2001 at 11:17:57 AM
3T is usually a nice stem. My Harding has a 3T Record and it's matched with Campy NR so it's quality. If nothing else I'd polish it up some and put it on Ebay. It should get a few $ and make it easier to justify stopping the truck :) I don't know enough to comment on the frame but with chrome lugs if it's reasonably light I'd again consider ebay. I've seen some sell that desperately needed help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Itala made in Italy? posted by Schwinnderella on 1/21/2001 at 11:34:48 AM
Universal type 61 31.2 oz. center pull .An excellent brake ,good looking and well made but almost never available from dealer stocks ,and found as standard equipment on just a few Italian bikes. This is from a article titled All About Components by Joe Kossack Bike World June/july 1973. Happy Collecting !!

   Atala? posted by John E on 1/21/2001 at 6:53:19 PM
I have never heard of Itala; Atala was a common third-tier Italian brand. You may have a better (but not necessarily more collectible!) machine than you realize -- even the lower-end Italian frames I have ridden were responsive. TTT made alot of stems for Bianchi and other respected builders. If the frame is in good shape, with only cosmetic damage, it might be worth repainting or using as a beater. When you disassemble the BB, remember that both sides are standard clockwise threaded, because the Italians and French did not want to pay royalties on the British patent for (self-tightening) anticlockwise fixed cup threading.

   RE:It's a Ghana! posted by ChristopherRobin on 1/22/2001 at 12:50:06 PM
Thanks for your reply! Thanks for the threading tip. I didn't know that!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Itala made in Italy? posted by sam on 1/23/2001 at 1:28:25 AM
Not much to add but you can check on Italian bikes and parts at www.cyclesdeoro.com ( but I think you know this)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Itala made in Italy? posted by Keith on 1/23/2001 at 7:37:13 AM
Sometimes it's difficult to say through the bad paint and grime whether any gems lurk beneath. I think often they do. Universal made great brakes and were considered by some (Italophiles) to be the best before Campy brought out the Record sidepulls in the late 60s (the Universal 68 was a popular sidepull). The 61 was Universal's top centerpull model, and was standard equipment on early 70s top-end Frejus, Legnano, and Bottechia models, when the more expensive Campy Records were an option rather than standard equipment. Vincenza is not a model, but the city where Campy stuff is made, and the designation appears on the Record/Nouvo Record shifter levers (I have one in my hand now, on a keychain). But then, the same aluminum levers were used without the folding wingnut on cheaper groupos. What is the derailleur? If it's Valentino or Valentino Extra, you've got a cheapo (but nice) Italian bike. The nice thing about the cheap Campy Valentino rear derailleur is that it still has the brass bushings, so it will work long after the Simplex, Huret, or even Suntour stuff has worn out or fallen apart.

MISC:   Emotional rollercoaster posted by: Oscar on 1/20/2001 at 3:47:13 PM
I found a beautiful 1960's Torpado for $20. The wheels, crank, seatpost, and saddle were useless, but the frame is beautiful. Chromed lugs and ttt bar and stem are out of sight!. Then, while cleaning the bike, I found a 2mm hole in the left chainstay. The tire must have run a hole through the steel. Dawg gone it!

   RE:MISC:   Emotional rollercoaster posted by Walter on 1/21/2001 at 5:36:23 AM
That hurts!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Emotional rollercoaster posted by Kevin K on 1/21/2001 at 7:30:12 AM
Hi. A good " metal man " as they are called can repair that. It may add some weight to the bike, but it is possible to fix it. Kevin

AGE / VALUE:   Projects posted by: Walter on 1/19/2001 at 7:41:38 PM
I'm still new here but I've enjoyed this site quite a bit since I first stumbled on it. Figured I'd mention my current projects just in case anyone is interested in talking about them. In no order of preference: #1 is a Columbus SL Basso of probably mid-80's vintage with the addition of a new polished aluminum fork. I found a similar year Campy SR group at a good price on the Campy-Only site and I'm nearing completion. #2 is for my wife and is a 531 framed "Harding" which I did discuss in a post a few weeks back and rec'd some great info from John about. It too is near done. Looking for a quality 5 speed or Ultra-6 freewheel as it is of 70's era and will not take anything larger. Don't need more gears in flat South Fla anyways. #3 is a LeTour I bought from a poster here and it will become a fixed gear. I don't plan on a lot of resto work as the other 2 particularly the Harding have gotten me very tired of my polishing wheel. Thanks for indulging and I'd welcome any comments.

   you've been busy posted by John E on 1/20/2001 at 2:43:18 PM
You've been pretty industrious, Walter! Check eBay periodically for that Ultra-6 freewheel -- I see them pretty frequently, at very reasonable prices. If you do not need super-high gears, you may be able to use a 7-speed with the small cog removed, assuming the body is only 6 cogs wide, as most are. You can also widen the rear triangle of the Harding to 126mm without damaging the stays. The Basso sounds great, but I am strongly biased in favor of steel Italian frames.

   RE:you've been busy posted by Walter on 1/20/2001 at 6:44:35 PM
Actually the Basso and Harding have taken quite awhile but now that the end is in sight I'm talking about them a bit more. The fixed gear is a relatively quick deal. I'm looking for a high effort workout bike and am not concerned much with aesthetics. Thanks for the gear advice. I picked up a Regina Futura set on Yahoo auctions sometime back. 1 freewheel body and 3 cogsets with a tool in a real wood box and NOS to boot. Had it in mind for the Basso but checked today and it looks like it'll fit the Harding nicely. Ive already picked up a DuraAce for the Basso. Had gotten out of cycling but have re-entered with a passion and feel like a kid again working with the road bikes I lusted after as I rode my entry-level Motobecane which was all I could afford at the time.

MISC:   Funky Vintage cranks and drivetrain posted by: Warren on 1/19/2001 at 10:17:44 AM
A buddy of mine gets to rummage in an old bike store from the 30's once and a while. This week he gave me an assortment of cool cranks. Two inch-pitch plus a 3 bolt replacement ring, a cool CCM crankset with triangular axle,(cotterless),and an ornately scrolled crankset with the name KAY on it. A few of these cranks were made by "Williams", the name being etched in the arms. Now the weird item...a crank and 2 matching cogs AND an NOS chain that measures at least 5/32, standard half inch pitch. This shop has several of these NOS oversized chains. Does anyone have any background on these cranks and especially the big drivetrain. I think it would make a righteous fixed gear runabout...guaranteed to not stretch the chain for about a decade I figure.

MISC:   Year GT started making bikes?? posted by: Stephen Thorpe on 1/18/2001 at 10:02:14 PM
I have an 1960's-70's road frame that was made by a fellow
that lived in Manassas VA and made road bikes . The frame resembles the style of frame GT
makes with the rear upper triangle that crosses the seat tube and is attached to the top tube.The frame is made of chromoly and weighs 3 lbs.
Just curios if GT's went back that far and if there are any records of racing bike makers from this time in the US?
I can send pics to who needs them. Stephen

   RE:MISC:   Year GT started making bikes?? posted by Tom Adams on 1/19/2001 at 1:30:14 PM
My fuzzy memory is that GT came on scene in the late 1980's or early 90's with their triple triangle design. However the design itself is older. Hetchins had a similar model named "Hellenic" by at least the 1960s. Check out http://www.cyclesdeoro.com/Hetchins_hell_sid.htm . And Hetchins might have got the design from someone else.