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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

WANTED:   NEED NEW 60CM FRAME posted by: Keith on 3/18/2001 at 12:05:53 PM
Last week a big dog suddenly walked directly into my path while I was riding home on my commuter Trek 400. No broken bones (on my part, at least), but the frame has the classic front end collision damage: nice big bulges under the down and top tubes just behind the head lugs. SOOOOOOO -- I NEED A NEW FRAME! Specs: (1) lugged, high quality steel; (2) decent clearance for 700 x 32 tires; (3) 60cm or 24" center to top; (4) straight, and no rust or dents; (5) 126mm dropout spacing. Dog proof would be nice too, but I know I'm dreaming on that one. Paint chips, color, and cosmetic stuff (other than rust) don't matter. THANKS! velohund@yahoo.com

   RE:WANTED:   NEED NEW 60CM FRAME posted by Keith on 3/18/2001 at 1:45:37 PM
P.S. I suppose I'm providing myself good reasons to return to using British 3-speeds or my Schwinn Collegiate for commuting. Still, I'd like a 60cm frame to hang all this stuff on.

   Woof woof yipe posted by Oscar on 3/18/2001 at 2:37:20 PM
Where was the dog's leash? I can never tell which dog is going to take off after me. Normally the dog owner says, "Don't worry, he just wants to play." Then they get all offended when I wave my pump at the pooch.

   62cm Schwinn Paramount frame on eBay posted by John E on 3/18/2001 at 6:13:40 PM
Hi Keith,
Sorry about the frame, but I think its crumpling absorbed alot of impact energy for you, as my first Capo did for me. I still think this is a traditional frame's safety advantage over either composite or oversize. If 62cm is not too big for you, there's a white Paramount frame on eBay.

   RE:WANTED:   NEED NEW 60CM FRAME posted by Keith on 3/19/2001 at 7:58:27 AM
Thanks guys. John, I have my eye on the P-15 Paramount, although the clearances on that frame are so huge that you have to use 27" wheels with it. I read an article somewhere -- Rivendell Reader -- that expresses the same thing you do -- normal diameter lugged steel absorbs the energy of a front impact in a way that could save you from injury. Now I'm living proof. Oscar -- some nut on the Columbus City Council had the dog leash law here repealed because he enjoys letting his dog run free at city parks. I don't have a problem with no leash in parks in general, but on bike paths its stupid to not require leashes.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   NEED NEW 60CM FRAME posted by Christopherrobin2@starmail.com on 3/20/2001 at 2:07:57 PM
Sorry about the bike, glad you are ok. Stupid dog!

   RE:RE:WANTED:   NEED NEW 60CM FRAME posted by ChristopherRobin on 3/20/2001 at 2:14:01 PM
After all the effort he must have put forth to get the job. Why not? It would be my first order of business along with a pay raise and Tuesdays off. I would have all the city employees out looking for bikes. A dog is supposed to be on a leash for it's own safety as well as other people.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by: Sherrie on 3/18/2001 at 11:51:31 AM
A friend of mine bought an old house and inside the house were 2 bicycles. One is a Schwinn Hollywood #LA48181 and ther other is a "SPORTS" made in England. I am not a bike collector, but I do want to purchase this Schwinn from my friend...the only problem is we have no idea what it is worth. The bike is in perfect condition, just needs to be cleaned up and new tires added. Can anyone tell me what this bike is worth or if it's worth anything?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by Keith on 3/18/2001 at 12:05:45 PM
Although Ray and Eric may tell you about the Hollywood, I think your question would be better directed to the Middleweight and ballooner folks. (There was more than one version of the Hollywood, right? -- so detail will help.) The Sports question should go to the British roadster group, although, IMO, a Raleigh Sports is not truly collectable unless it's old enough to have rod brakes and/or a full chaincase cover. Most recent (60s on) Sports are garage sale foder, though they are great commuter bikes.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by Eric Amlie on 3/18/2001 at 3:36:04 PM
Sorry, I can't help on this one. I'm just into the early-mid sixties derailleur "lightweights". I would guess no more than $50 for the Hollywood though unless it's in pristine condition. Just a guess though.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by sam on 3/18/2001 at 6:56:25 PM
The hollywood is a dec.65 should be a middleweight--$50 would be tops--$15average.The sports as stated earlier.But both these bikes were very well made bikes so if you want a good bike to ride.....

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by Wings on 3/18/2001 at 10:26:32 PM
It is very rare for me to see a Hollywood and one of my sources indicate $100 to $200, however a search on completed items on Ebay may help as it seems like Ebay has impacted the market. It is a Middle weight bike and the tires can still be found. Girls bikes are much more common so they are not as valuable. I have only seen a couple middle weights in thrift stores in the last 4 years and if they had all of their parts, they were no lower than $80. From another source I understand they were selling better on the East coast as they were being fixed up and resold.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by JOEL on 3/19/2001 at 7:17:48 AM
Both bikes although good quality, are not of much interest to collectors. I still see Breezes and lightweights at yard sales and thrift stores for $5-20 range.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Hollywood posted by Wings on 3/19/2001 at 10:11:14 PM
The Breeze, Collegiate, World, etc. have been selling for under $10. But in the last two years many of those bikes now have $79 on them. In two bike shops I have seen in the last two years, these bikes have been on display with price tags up to $200. I sense an increasing high price craze on them. They are still around!!!
The Starlet, American, Hollywood, Jaguars, Typhoons, are extremely scarce in my area and I have only seen about 3 in the last 4 years. They are a step down from the old balooners. I saw one Hollywood with a tank, all complete for $200 two years ago.
From the above posts prices must very greatly by area!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   BSA PARTS posted by: david mclinden on 3/17/2001 at 4:04:44 PM
I have a 1940ish bsa, as a kid i put 10 seed gears on it. NO HATE MAIL ALRIGHT. as an adult i want to re build it I know it was a two tone blue possably three ,dad cant remember the colors.i have bsa peddles (new ) i found still in there box i have cranks , not fluted i remember the originals were fluted . i need info re wheels, decals handle bars and color what sort of other info do i need to track parts down , I am in melbourne australia

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   BSA PARTS posted by sam on 3/17/2001 at 5:30:50 PM
If I were in Australia i'd check out http://www.ctuc.asn.au/bicycle/

FOR SALE:   NOS 40's Allstate 26 x 1.375 tires * Interesting* posted by: Jim on 3/17/2001 at 2:23:17 PM
For sale 40's NOS Allstate tires. 26 x 1.375. With original label, stating the new synthetic rubber made from recycled war rubber. Very interesting label. Check out the photos at http://www.coconutgirls.com/bikeyard/allstate
the label is at http://www.coconutgirls.com/bikeyard/allstate3

AGE / VALUE:   Orphan parts, I find a lot of one offs. posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/17/2001 at 10:19:08 AM
I find a old, valuable pedal. Don't have any idea what it is though. A friend sees it and tells me all about it. Then I'm told to "go back and find the other one, do not come back without it." So I go and get all dirty and sweaty looking. Hours pass. I move heavy cabinets and root around, things drop and still no luck. It is not there, anywhere. He says "What do you mean? it has to be there someplace! This is alloy, French thread. "What you gonna do with just one pedal?" Oh, the torment! Good question. It sits there on my shelf all polished and overhauled and guests comment "Nice pedal, where did you find it? Where is the other one? Chris.

AGE / VALUE:   Shimano parts posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/17/2001 at 10:05:38 AM
Somebody please tell me to stop buying Shimano bar end shifters! I can't help it, prices are so ridiculously low I have to carry it all out in boxes. I picked up a 3rd vintage Raleigh Record Ace bike and took it for a spin before removing the non origonal parts and putting it back to period correctness and I reached down and used the bar end shifter as I muttered about it being messed up and missing it's F.M. Four speed and I fell in love with Shimano bar end shifters right then. I still put in a vintage Sturmey-Archer and trigger but those Shifters! Wow.

AGE / VALUE:   campy derailer posted by: Tom on 3/17/2001 at 8:50:34 AM
I understand that the year of production is stamped on a campy derailer. I have one that has no date stamped on it. What year could this be? Late60's or early 70's.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   campy derailer posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/17/2001 at 10:17:14 AM
Looks like we both need to study in detail books showing Campy models. I hate it when things have no markings. I don't learn thru osmosis either. I have to take it in to the shop to play "show and tell" with the shop mechanic.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   campy derailer posted by Chuck Schmidt on 3/17/2001 at 10:48:55 PM
Check the Campagnolo Timeline at:

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   campy derailer posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/18/2001 at 11:56:25 AM
Silly me forgot to say look on the net. Yes you can look it up thru the computer and its fortunate that somebody has it posted.

MISC:   Replica Parts posted by: Phil on 3/15/2001 at 8:53:05 PM
(This is not meant to be a commercial post.)

I perhaps, have more money than is good for me to have and at the same time am not as smart as I need to be. I am considering opening a factory in China (Where I live) that produces good quality componets for older road and mountain bikes.

Having lurked on this group for a while I thought it might be a good place to ask for thoughts on this.

I've pursued this to the point of obtaining designs or prototypes for a crank with a low Q factor, a front and rear derailleur with the ability to work on 4, 5, 6, or 7 speed cogs a set of standard reach non-monoplaner, non-dualpivot brake calipers and a set of non-aero brake levers. A friction DT shifter is the next project. These would look a whole lot like mid 80's Suntour or Shimano stuff and the idea here is 105 quality.

Is there enough market for something like this?

So far the production cost have been minimal so I can still stop and not worry about retirement.

The idea is to be able to market a "retro-road group" a fixed-gear road group" and maybe a couple of other things.

I would be interested in your thoughts

   RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by Keith on 3/16/2001 at 6:26:23 AM

I think your project is admirable, but I wonder about its chances of success. My strong impression is that the vintage lightweight bike market is very very small, and the high-end folks are very picky. The high-end retro people are pretty concerned about authenticity, and there's enough NOS/lightly-used Campy NR/SR and similar vintage equipment to be had out there (check Bicycle Classics, etc., as I'm sure you already have). Also, if you aren't already on the list, check the Cycles de Oro Classic Rendevous list. These are the Hetchins, Singer, 1950s Bianchi, 1960s Cinelli, etc. collectors. Since there's a fair amount of original stuff floating around, it's difficult for me to see why these folks would turn to repo parts. Even less well-heeled enthusiasts like me can find really nice vintage stuff pretty cheap. You might find a niche with the Rivendell crowd (they will eventually run out of NOS single bolt sidepulls at some point years from now), if your stuff genuinely outperforms the NOS equipment they sell. (It's also worth noting that Rivendell is perfectly happy to sell new Shimano 105 index stuff, which works great in friction.) I don't think the Rivendell numbers are exactly vast either, however. In sum, I see three hurdles: (1) the market is very limited to begin with; (2) picky collectors may look with distain at non-original parts; and (3) original parts are still available fairly cheap -- you'd have to seriously undercut those prices. All that having been said, I wish you the best on your noble endeavor.

   suggestions... posted by JOEL on 3/16/2001 at 7:40:01 AM
I agree with Keith. Collectors would prefer original or exact reproduction parts. You might find more of a nich in China where functional replacement parts might be more desirable than original equipment.

A better plan might be to make quality reproductions of high dollar parts that are in demand and in short supply. For example, nobody is making an economical 28" single tube tire, the standard US tire size for ' 40 years. Current reproductions cost more than the current value of a non-deluxe bike making restoration of these bikes too costly.

Or maybe a tank for an Elgin Twin 60 or Shelby Airflow (originals are $500+). Or a reproduction of the very rare Musselman 2 speed converter and suicide shifter, easy parts to machine and impossible to find originals. GOOD LUCK

   hidden functional parts posted by John E on 3/16/2001 at 10:11:32 AM
Another way to play it -- how about making some of the perishable, somewhat hidden, non-ISO parts that are getting scarce, such as Swiss- or French-threaded bottom bracket cups, French-threaded headsets, weird-diameter aluminum seatposts, etc.?

   RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by Art on 3/16/2001 at 10:44:25 AM
I agree with the preceeding posts. I think the reproduction thing has worked for the ballon tire bike crowd because of the scarcity of those parts. You can build a beater Schwinn frame into a clean Phantom using reproduction parts. I don't believe anyone would want to put reproduction parts on an original (or a repainted) high end vintage lightweight frame. So I don't think the same interest would be there for lightweights like it is for balloon-tired bikes. As Keith said, there are so many lower end parts still out there, that I don't think there is much need for them in the collector's world. However, it seems that modern retrostyled ballooners from modern builders, like Dyno, Diamonback, and GT, seem to sell. Phantom, Columbia, and Roadmaster reproduced bikes styled after 50's bikes have sold to some degree. There are reproduced high-wheelers. It seems like highly rare bikes in this genre, like the Evinrude, might sell. No one to my knowledge has ever reproduced a shaft drive bike. The Herse Demontable sold for $4000 on Ebay. Would someone buy a reproduced version of this bike?. I never thought people would spend the money they have on reproduced Phantoms so who knows. You've also got the motor bike thing like Whizzer. Whatever you do, good luck. Like Keith said, the CR site would be an interesting place to get more feedback. I'd also talk to local bike shop dealers. Maybe they have an insight that would help you.

   RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by Warren on 3/16/2001 at 5:27:44 PM
The only part of your plan that I see as feasible is a fixed gear "gruppo" for large urban centres. This market doesn't generally care about vintage authenticity...they're a little more hardcore and pragmatic. Here in Toronto, a large downtown bike shop is having good success marketing fixed gear road bikes. The frames are made in the Pacific rim...straight gauge and not too heavy with track ends. Any colour you want as long as it's dark metallic blue. The bikes are then built up with anything from the low end Suzue to the better Phil Woods and Miche components. The frames sell for $350 cdn or just over $200 US and the complete bikes start at around $700 cdn. I think the objective would be to build medium to better quality components at great prices with nice designs. Have you ever seen the Suntour Superbe high flange track hubs? Now that's art. I think this is also a smaller niche that you could do some limited production runs and not get burned too badly. Find a shop that caters to couriers in each large city in North America and get your stuff out there. Of course some further market research is in order but the right product might sell. Hell, I'll test out your product and spead the word if I like it...honest!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by sam on 3/16/2001 at 5:42:11 PM
Shaft drive-check out www.chainless.com Phil,I would sugest you do look to see what China has to offer thats not sold here.Instead of a factory to make your parts how about a plant for quality control on parts they might all ready produce.that way you only ship first rate products and get no bad rap--sam

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by Wings on 3/17/2001 at 1:31:14 AM
Repop Phantoms were mentioned. The true Phantom collector still wants original parts! They go for more on EBAY also. The Repop is usually put together to sell to a non collector or a repop part may be used until the real part can be found. I think the value of the components must be very expensive before repop components would be used as an alternative. I think also that the size of the Retro users is very small. Must people seem to be into the current hi tech craze.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Replica Parts posted by JimW. on 3/17/2001 at 11:45:55 AM
I agree with pretty much everything above. Especially with the mention of the Dyna Roadster. Stretched-frame cruisers are hot sellers, with no "repop" predjudices applying. Dyna/GT owns this market, at the moment, but smaller bike shops refuse to carry their bikes because they have to order 20 at a time. The same goes for the kustom-style Dyna parts. If you were set up to sell nicely-made and well-plated triple-tree forks at a nice price, especially with suspension, you'd find buyers for them. There is a big market for lowrider bike custom parts, with quite a few makers in the far east, I presume. No one's really done it to the same extent with kustom parts for cruiser frames. There's a real need out there for interesting handlebars and saddles, too. Retro Fitz sells full-skirted fender sets for $300 (these are what most people call Indian-style fenders.) I don't really care for the way these particular fenders are styled, but it's a good example of the market. There would also be a market for kustom tanks designed for current frames. They don't have to be repops of existing stuff, either, but could make use of modern technology to serve new functions, like a modern radio or CD tank. There's also a need for better versions of stuff that's currently repop-ed, like those bullet headlights you see on everyone's lowrider or kustom kruiser. The ones that are currently available are really cheesy. A nicely made traditional-style light taking advantage of current lighting technology, would find many eager buyers. There would also be a market for interesting wheels. Those radial-spoked "baby Dayton" bike wheels are almost the only alternate wheels out there. Something different and snazzy would be popular. There's a whole other segment of bike hardware marketing out there, but no one's really filling it. This would be a good time to do it. Good luck.

AGE / VALUE:   Mercian King Of Mercia posted by: Tom on 3/14/2001 at 7:35:32 PM
I have an old Mercian King of Mercia lightweight bike. Could someone tell me aprox what year it is and what it is worth? It is orange with white on all three posts where mercian is printed, chrome fork, campagnolo stamped on the rear frame. The components are all campagnolo,seat post, pedals, record hubs,AVA rims,170 strada on the crank arms, evian gran-prix handle bar stem,leather seat. Brakes are weinmann 610 vainoueur 999 with shimano levers probably not original.christophe special toe clips no strap. Serial# is 68426. The bike rides nice and straight. The paint is poor, lots of chips, faded.Where the rear brake is bolted on the frame has been welded.Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mercian King Of Mercia posted by Keith on 3/15/2001 at 1:54:25 PM
A very clean 70s Mercian frame and fork sold for a mere $150 on ebay last week. Yikes! If the brake bridge was actually welded, as opposed to brazed, the repair weakened the stays. That it ever needed to be repaired in the first place is not a great sign either. My shot in the dark would be if its in marginal condition, with a mixed and presumably well used groupo, I'd say $250-300, and that's also assuming the frame is straight, no serious rust, no major components are missing, and the brake bridge was brazed. This is based in part on Michael Kone's estimate that a guideline condition (basicaly lightly used) Mercian with full Campy NR should be about $600-700. (He pegs the fancy Vincitore at $900 and says plainer models should go for several hundred less, and the King of Merica is a plainer model.)

AGE / VALUE:   schwinn speedster posted by: aaron on 3/14/2001 at 1:05:32 PM
what was the exact year that Schwinn swithched the production of middle wieght speedsters to light wieght speedsters? What were the light wieghts selling for new at the time? thanks for any info.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn speedster posted by Wings on 3/14/2001 at 10:54:29 PM
Speedster, S11, 26 inch, 1959 (in with hornets, panthers)
Speedster, S11 26 inch, 1960 "
Not mentioned in 1961
Not mentioned in 1962
Speedster, R10, 26 inch, 1963 (in with hornets, Typhoons)
Speedster, R10, 26 in , 1964
R20, 24 in, 1964
R30, 20 in, 1964
Speedster, S10, 26 in "Lightweight", 1965
(listed with Racer, Collegiate, Traveler)
Other 20, 24 inch wheel sizes not mentioned in 65
Based on James Hurds book it may have been 1965 as it appeared in the lineup under "lightweight", a first time designation in the line up for any of the bikes. And a new model number. Perhaps the Schwinn group would be more precise.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn speedster posted by Wings on 3/14/2001 at 10:58:25 PM
1965 Speedster $52.95 As a Coaster: $44.95
1965 Speedster with TCW Coaster - 3 Speed. $56.95
The earlier years (above) had the Speedster dedreasing in price by a about $2 per year.

FOR SALE:   toe clips cycle23 NOS 1973 posted by: todjob on 3/14/2001 at 9:28:21 AM
3 sets new in boxes, boxes are grungy but clips and straps are exellent these bolt on to rat trap reflector pedals asking $10.00 a set O.B.O. email me for photos

FOR SALE:   schwinn 10sp seats (old) posted by: todjob on 3/14/2001 at 9:22:37 AM
2 vintage 10sp seats for sale very clean the older one is a schwinn approved logo seat on sides,patent leather look,spring base seat,metal schwinn tab on back (era late 60's)asking $17.00 O.B.O.
the newer one is a raised letter on rear seat very nice condition (era late 70's?)asking $12.00 O.B.O. email for photos

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Wanted/ English Lightweights/ Track/Six day racers/ Touring bikes etc. posted by: Peter Naiman on 3/13/2001 at 10:03:38 PM
I'm looking to purchase Hetchins framesets or complete cycles. Prior to 1975 preferred, the more ornate the better, Curly Hetchins if possible. Must be in reasonably good original condition. Prefer 19&1/2" to 22&1/2". Also looking for similar English bikes, Hobbs of Barbicon, Ephgraves, Henry Rensch, Bates Cantiflex, Holdsworth, Hurlow etc. Road, track, path racers and six day racers wanted. Call me at (617)512-1502 nights after 8:00PM EST or email.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   steyr bicycles posted by: Mark English on 3/13/2001 at 3:08:19 PM
I have an old Steyr Bicycle, possibly from the 1940s or 1950s, but I'm not sure. I've tried going to the Steyr website, but have been unable to find any information on bicycles. Is there a website that I can go to find out about Steyr Bicycles, and more about my bikes age and a range in value. The serial number is 3398973.

   Steyr-[Austro]Daimler-Puch posted by John E on 3/13/2001 at 8:06:00 PM
Cyclesdeoro.com and sheldonbrown.com both have data on Austro-Daimler, SDP's mid-upscale marque of the 1980s. SDP also made alot of bicycles for Sears, and today builds Jeep Grand Cherokees for the European market. Most Steyr bicycles I have seen are pretty average, but they tend to be light, sturdy, and well-made. The biggest disadvantage of any older Austrian bicycle is its Swiss bottom bracket threading, which makes replacement bearing cups a bit hard to find, unless one wants to spend $80 or so on a Phil Wood sealed bottom bracket cartridge.

FOR SALE:   Shimano freewheel bottom bracket system posted by: Robert on 3/13/2001 at 12:49:00 PM
Anyone need a Shimano front freewheel system bottom bracket setup?
Have one that is complete and in good condition. Crank/freewheel assembly, and sprockets.
Reasonable offer plus shipping .