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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/18/2001 at 9:42:14 AM
E- Bay item #1135682812 Dunelt Raleigh Campagnolo Shimano Bicycle

It wouldn't load up the photos because someone doesn't like the server but it should for you without any problem.
This is something special

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by Bill Putnam on 4/18/2001 at 10:43:29 AM
I would caution anyone who buys that bike that the cranks
are extremely weak due to the drilling. See http://pardo.net/pardo/bike/pic/fail/FAIL-001.html
for failures of cranks that weren't already weakened by
such drilling.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by Keith on 4/18/2001 at 11:23:35 AM
Another fun find, CR. I too couldn't load the pics, but having had 3 Dunelts, I can well imagine the really cool, classic, elaborate headbadge. Ahh, the British, they knew how to embelish a bike!

   huh? posted by John E on 4/18/2001 at 12:34:04 PM
Yes, the frame is fabulous, but why would anyone anachronistically mix those crummy old 1950s Campy GS derailleurs with 1970s Campy sidepull brakes? Stem shifters and drilled CRANKS? Give me a break! I'm 100% with Bill -- those cranks are a write-off and should not be included in the total value computation. Of course, if someone were to install reliable cranks and NR derailleurs with downtube shifters, hmmm ...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/18/2001 at 5:19:20 PM
Should be interesting to see what it goes for, huh?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/18/2001 at 5:46:10 PM
At one point in time people went nuts drilling everything to lighten a bike. But to do this drilling on a Dunelt? a Dunelt? The rear derailur looks right, thats what they used at the time. I do not like the brake levers. They look Weinmannish with the red buttons.

   $2900 posted by John E on 4/18/2001 at 7:04:45 PM
The Dunelt is listed on the seller's business website at $2900. We'll see if "the price is right"!

My criticism of the components was that the bike represents a strange blend of new and old. It would make more sense to use the Campy GS derailleurs with matching downtube shift levers and 1960-vintage brakes (Universal centre-pulls?). My biggest gripe, however, is with those drilled cranks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by Walter on 4/19/2001 at 6:33:52 AM
Weird mix of expensive and cheap. The cheap really standing out with the shifters and brake levers. The description says it was pieced together by a shop owner over a 15 year span. I wonder if parts were "cannibalized" off it over the years for other projects and replaced with whatever was at hand. I am from the Miami area and the name of the shop owner does sound familiar but I'm not sure if I know who it was or not.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by Keith on 4/19/2001 at 10:22:09 AM
I finally saw the pics. The headbadge is really fun, just like the ones on the 3-speeds. The cranks are paper weight/wind chime material, as everyone has noted. Weird drilling -- so aggressive with something like the arms, but relatively few and widely spaced on the rings. Anyway, I don't think Dunelt was a huge name in lightweights before Raleigh ate it, but I could be wrong. If it's post-Raleigh buyout frame, then shoot, it's just a Raleigh, which may be nice, but nothing special. I bet Pete of UK would know Dunelt's pre-Raleigh takeover reputation.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by desmo on 4/19/2001 at 12:16:52 PM
I find it hard to believe that a shop owner would assemble such a mess together. Looks VERY amateur or a even a bit daft to me. Those cheesy Altus shifters on the stem are an insult to the rest of the bike and note the holes drilled in the crank arms aren't even centered. Looks like a child did it. Overall a prime example of tasteless outfitting of a rather nice old frame. It probably isn't worth $300.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay item #1135682812 Campy equiped Dunelt? posted by Keith on 4/20/2001 at 10:22:15 AM
It's as if a non-biker wandered through a bike shop blindfolded and picked out parts at random. The drilled parts were done by a junior high shop class (I suppose I shouldn't say this -- some very young freinds of mine did some beautiful drilling jobs -- nicer looking than Ernesto Colnagos -- with perfectly spaced, countersunk, graduated holes, in the early 70s).

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   What is it?? posted by: Mike Slater on 4/18/2001 at 9:41:15 AM
I should of included this in my previous post, but forgot.
Anyway, at the same address as the Grand Jubilee photos, there is a folder called "What is it" that has a bike that I picked up for $10. Anybody have any idea what this might be? It is almost all Suntour, including the dropouts.

   It's a Nishiki / American Eagle or cousin posted by John E on 4/21/2001 at 9:16:37 AM
Mike, that initial "K" in the BB serial number denotes Kawamura, Nishiki / American Eagle's framebuilder. Please email or post the entire S/N. (My 1971 American Eagle SemiPro was KS78091.)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Mixte frame photos posted by: Mike Slater on 4/18/2001 at 9:12:35 AM
Just finished my mixte frame Grand Jubile. Felt compelled to share photos with anyone who is interested. Put this together for my wife - if the frame was larger, I would certainly spend a good amount of time on this one! Rides fantastic!! I tried to stick to French componets, but practicality won out on some items. I love the look of this bike.
Bike photos are at this address:
Click on the "Finished Grand Jubilee" folder

   Mixte frame posted by John E on 4/18/2001 at 7:12:01 PM
Nice-looking Motobecane, Mike! Had Moto finally seen the light and changed over to Swiss BB threading by your year? I hope your wife appreciates it. I think they do tend to be significantly better-finished than the "equivalent" Peugeot models.

I like the barcons and have considered a similar treatment for my wife's Peugeot, which has stem shifters and the mountain bike - like straight handlebars that Peugeot put on their mixtes in the early 1970s.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Mixte frame photos posted by Oscar on 4/18/2001 at 7:15:17 PM
Great pics and beautiful bikes. Hey, Mike, your woman's got a moustache.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Mixte frame photos posted by Mike SLater on 4/19/2001 at 5:06:07 AM
Thanks Guys,
No John, Moto had not yet seen the light of day...one bottom bracket still threaded the "wrong" direction! Just have to check it occasionally! Oscar...I'll ask wifey to "wax" that moustache. :)

WANTED:   Information on Bianchi Campagnolo posted by: David on 4/18/2001 at 5:24:00 AM
I have a 1978 Bianchi Campagnolo that was recently involved in a MVA. I need to provide the insurance company of the offender that this cycle is an antique. Any and all information that would benefit this case is greatly appreciated.

   Sheldon Brown posted by John E on 4/18/2001 at 6:31:58 AM
Does your frame have a readable tubing sticker? The best Bianchis of that era had full Columbus SL frame, forks, and stays), whereas the (less-valuable and more common) next-best, such as my 1982, had Columbus "Tre Tubi Renforzati" (3 tubes butted) SL main triangles and seamed CrMo stays and forks. Check Sheldonbrown.com for a sublisting of classic bicycle values, remembering that condition is everything.

When I bent back the frame of my first (full-531) Capo in 1976, I was able to collect $200 above and beyond my injury settlement, despite the frame's horrendous repaint job. (The insurance adjuster probably thought "Reynolds" was some sort of aluminum foil tubing.) Be persistent, and track the eBay listings for comparable Bianchis. If yours is full Columbus SL in nice condition, several hundred dollars is not out of line, particularly since it is not enough to buy you a comparable replacement!

   RE:WANTED:   Information on Bianchi Campagnolo posted by Art on 4/18/2001 at 9:07:02 AM
I'd also price out any components, wheels, etc. Parts are really high for some components right now.

AGE / VALUE:   Juy Simplex Skewers rebuildable? posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/17/2001 at 4:39:27 PM
Are old Simplex skewers rebuildable? I have several of these and some have broken rods(the part that goes thru the hub axle) I would think they are. I have a lot of ancient Simplex skewers

AGE / VALUE:   TRADE RIGIDA 700's for ???????????? posted by: Kevin on 4/17/2001 at 10:57:57 AM
Hi. I've got a pr. of chrome Rigida wheels in need of a new owner. These wheels are very, very presentable. Stamping on the wheel reads ( 28x1 5/8x1 3/8-700C ) These are chromed steel with a raised stamping in the wheel where the nipple passes through. The chrome is nice. Spokes have turned a soft, matt grey color ( not butted ) High flange " Normandy " hubs with Huret wing nuts. Atom freewheel / tight road gear cluster. I have no idea as to the age. I would like to trade for a set of equally nice 27 " alloy wheels. I would prefere a pr. of Weinmann's with Maillard hubs, but if your interested email with what you have to trade ( or for more info on the Rigida's ) Thank you, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   TRADE RIGIDA 700's for ???????????? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/17/2001 at 3:57:29 PM
I have n.o.s. Michelin tires for these excellent rims

AGE / VALUE:   Ishwata 3Rensho posted by: gary on 4/17/2001 at 12:31:28 AM
does any one know what gauge tubing Ishiwata used on their 3Rensho bikes? All the label states is that it is cro-mo, double butted, and super strong. On the bottom it states, "Ishiwata 3Rensho".

   Ishwata and 3Rensho posted by John E on 4/17/2001 at 6:21:56 AM
First, a clarification -- Ishiwata is (was?) a tubing manufacturer, like Tange or Reynolds. 3Rensho is a frame builder's brand name, like Raleigh or Bianchi. My mediocre 1971 Nishiki was built with double-butted Ishiwata CrMo, as is your vastly superior 3Rensho frame. Sorry, I do not know what tubing gauge you have, but the 3Rensho pedigree indicates that you have a world-class frame.

AGE / VALUE:   Fit for a god! posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/16/2001 at 4:55:03 PM
e-bay item # 1134473905 Rene Herse Bicycle

Wonderful, rare, I love the color. Take a look and drool.
Not my auction, no relation to seller.
It would make a very special gift for a lady you love.

   Maxicar hubs posted by John E on 4/16/2001 at 7:19:44 PM
... and to think I gave away my MaxiCar hubset 20 years ago!

   Now I seem cheap... posted by Oscar on 4/16/2001 at 8:54:17 PM
My wife's engagement ring cost less than the current bid. Shhhhh!

   RE:Now I seem cheap... posted by Wings on 4/16/2001 at 10:06:10 PM
Wow, great frame color with the soft leather tone.
But, who would let their woman ride it at that price?

   Simplex prices posted by John E on 4/17/2001 at 8:05:30 AM
While you are there, check out the Simplex derailleur prices ($1225 for a 1952 cable-operated helical-action front with dual nested right-side shifters (adapted from the old dual-cable rear controls), $510 for a rear) on eBay. The sellers should be jumping for JUY, so to speak. (When I worked at Kirk's Bikes in 1971, we sold a Follis with this transmission, and with the brand name carved into the head lugs, for $80. Ouch!)

   RE:Now I seem cheap... posted by Warren on 4/17/2001 at 1:55:36 PM
You mean I was supposed to by a ring? I got her a Lemond.

   a time for every purpose posted by John E on 4/17/2001 at 4:02:18 PM
My wife got my first Bianchi, then a ring and a wedding, and then a new (men's) Peugeot frame, which I custom-assembled with TA cranks and wide-range SunTour derailleurs. Although she still has the Peugeot, she now prefers to avoid traffic by taking my Schwinn mountain bike off-road.

AGE / VALUE:   E- bay item#1134669753 posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/16/2001 at 4:48:02 PM
Vintage English hubs on e- bay. These are offered WITH the little greasegun that services the hub fittings on the hub. These hubs are nice! Take a look
No relation to seller, not my auction.

I have not seen the actual grease gun offered before. Wonderful.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Age? posted by: Jeff on 4/16/2001 at 3:36:35 PM
Anybody have any idea what year my Centurion is ?
The serial # is IN20072. Also , what happened to the company around 1976?
Was it sold to the present German/Swiss firm.Were the frames on their
"LeMans" model anything noteworthy, or middle of the road?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Age? posted by Fred on 4/16/2001 at 6:37:23 PM
Jeff: Sheldon Brown has a couple of paragraphs on the Centurion. Sometime back there was some notes on Centurion.
My Centurion Iron Man, Dave Scott edition can be seen at: fredhaj.tripod.com.

MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by: Keith on 4/16/2001 at 12:55:34 PM
I made some of the home brew chain lube -- I started with 3 parts mineral spirits and 1 part Castrol Syntech. It was way too thin -- chain started to squeek after about 5 miles, but boy did it get the chain clean! I tried again with a 2:1 mix, and it now seems to leave a thin coat of oil on the chain that you can barely feel, but still cleans the chain. Anyone else tried this?

   RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by Keith on 4/16/2001 at 1:05:00 PM
P.S. I hate spending several dollars for a couple of ounces of bike shop chain lube. The synthetic Castrol was about $5 for a quart, and a gallon of mineral spirits was less than $3.

   RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by Eric Amlie on 4/16/2001 at 2:28:14 PM
I mixed some up with two quarts mineral spirits and one quart of the heaviest viscosity (20w50, 15w40? I don't remember anymore) Mobil 1 full synthetic oil. Haven't had a chance to try it out yet though. It's snowing in Madison Wis. today!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/16/2001 at 3:08:19 PM
Burrp!! Why didn't you write the "chain lube" part on the label? I don't feel so good all of a sudden. It sounds interesting! Put it in bottles and show up at the swap meets. Will this seperate in the container? I hope it works great.

   RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by Jeff on 4/16/2001 at 4:01:52 PM
Ifff ya wanna try sumthng reeel gud try 1/2 & 1/2 SAE 90
gear oil and Jack Daniels.

   RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by Wings on 4/16/2001 at 10:09:40 PM
Mineral Spirits and Castrol will clean more than your chain!
It gets everything running!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube(it shouldn't be flamable) posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/17/2001 at 10:53:44 AM
Isn't Mineral Spirits really flamable? I mean isn't it like cleaning parts in kerosene or gasoline which is a NO- NO.

   RE:MISC:   Homebrew chain lube posted by sam on 4/17/2001 at 11:44:48 AM
Mineral Sprits is a combustable not a flamable---it burns but does not explode--so says the DOT shipping regulations

AGE / VALUE:   Oddities posted by: Bob on 4/16/2001 at 11:34:44 AM
Meandering through second hand stores this weekend I saw a Nishiki Mixte frame with 24" wheels. It was heavy all steel and not particularly "attractive" except the rear deraileur was a bit odd--two cables and a "gear indicator" on the deraileur itself.

My wife has apparently decided that I must be up to no good on my solo bike rides so she came home with a "Ross" Eurosport model. This is a heavy 5 speed bike with 27" wheels. I have some stuff to lighten it up a bit, but the crank is a bit different than anything I have seen before. It is a one-piece crank typical of a lower-end bike **but** the "freewheel" mechanism is apparently built into the bottom bracket. When one pedals "backwards" the chainrings do not turn. The components on the bike are mostly Shimano.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Oddities posted by Keith on 4/16/2001 at 1:06:51 PM
Sounds like a Shimano freecrank, which was often (though not always) coupled with the proto-index Positron shifting system. The idea was that you could shift even while coasting.

   evolutionary dead ends posted by John E on 4/16/2001 at 3:07:07 PM
Both transmissions, the "push-pull" Shimano derailleur and the Shimano freecrank, sound like good fodder for bicycleforum.com's thread on evolutionary dead ends. The dual-cable rear derailleur I very briefly owned was governed by a twist grip control.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Oddities posted by Fred on 4/16/2001 at 6:53:22 PM
Bob: I just traded a Ross exactly like yours in a deal to obtain a pair of Schwinns. You said it right when you said the Ross is heavy. Mine didn't have the Shimano Front Free wheeling System, FFS though. The Schwinns I got in the deal have the FFS but not the Positron double cable and detented derailer. I have a couple of Schwinns with these systems. There was some discussion back a few months on this subject. Sheldon Brown has some notes on these systems. My bike with FFS and push-pull cables work great.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rear axle positioning posted by: Eric Amlie on 4/16/2001 at 7:41:59 AM
What can you guys/gals tell me about positioning the rear axle in the dropouts? My thought is it should be as far back as possible so the chain will wrap the maximum amount of cog. I think I must be wrong though as most of my bikes, including my P15 Paramount with the axle positioning screws in the dropouts have the axle pushed far forward. My Gitane TdF had a little "spacer" in the right dropout to keep the axle forward. I removed it to push the axle further back. Mistake? Thanks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rear axle positioning posted by Keith on 4/16/2001 at 8:24:31 AM
John and others should chime in too, but I think the answer is that the adjusters should be set for optimum chain gap, that being the distance between the jockey wheel and the sprocket, and this will vary depending on the deralluers, the freewhell and other variables of your setup. I have a 14-28 on my Paramount P-15, and to get the Nouvo Record rear to work properly, I had to back the screws out as far as they'd go. The other thing the screws would change is wheelbase and functional chainstay length, and this may in turn affect ride quality, but the difference is so tiny that I doubt that anyone would ever really be able to tell.

   Rear axle positioning posted by John E on 4/16/2001 at 10:20:17 AM
I generally agree, Keith. My rule is: "as far forward as tyre-to-chainstay clearance and low cog-to-jockey-pulley clearance permit," but this often translates into "all the way back" for a Campy NR and 28T. Moving the axle rearward exacerbates shifting lateness in the smaller cogs. I set the Bianchi (Campy dropout, Campy NR, 26T) and the Peugeot (Simplex dropout, SunTour Cyclone, 24T, bicycleforum.com "photo album") about mid-range, the Capo (proprietary dropout with Campy dimensions, SunTour V, 28T) a bit farther back.

   RE:Rear axle positioning posted by Keith on 4/16/2001 at 11:13:10 AM
I can't remember what exactly Berto says about chain gap, but I think the best is about 5mm. I believe many old derailleurs are not designed to maintain a consistent chain gap in al gears -- the best you can do is play with it and test it yourself to see what works best for your particular setup.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Rear axle positioning posted by Michaelw on 4/18/2001 at 4:29:42 PM
Im sure I can feel the difference when the wheel is as far forward as possible. It just feels sharper and more responsive.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Moto Update posted by: Keith on 4/16/2001 at 7:27:12 AM
I received and set up my '75 Moto Grand Record late last week. The groupo is '74 Nouvo Record, with the exception of the seatpost (generic) and the hubs (Phil Wood). Looks like only a few k on the chainrings -- plenty of life left in them. The wheels have 48 spokes -- nice for my rough and sometimes off-road commute. It has a new Saches 7-speed freewheel. The flimsy French bars and stem were replaced with Nitto Pearl -- nice upgrade. The saddle is cool leather -- Selle Italia Leader with large copper rivets, rails, and copper Leader plate. The pedels are Campy Superleggara track, which I prefer to quill road pedals, because they're more comfy with regular shoes. The paint has lots of nicks and garage wear scratches, maybe a 6 out of 10, but the gold outlining around the Nervex lugs, and the decals, headbadge, and contrasting headtube still make the bike attractive overall. Best of all, it has that escoteric "magic carpet" ride quality that I love in certain vintage 531 bikes -- much like the Mercian. I'm very satisfied -- I never thought I'd sacrifice a vintage machine for use as a commuter, but I now understand why others have gone this route. If you're going to spend that many hours on a bike, it might as well be one you really enjoy.

   Moto Update posted by John E on 4/16/2001 at 10:07:19 AM
Nice ride, Keith! You have, of course, re-raised one of the fundamental issues in the classic bicycle hobby: to preserve or to use. (This theme also emerged within my recent Capo repaint thread. I do not want to make it into a wall hanging to compete with my wife's oil paintings.) Since your components are better than original and your paint is shot, you are making the right decision. Enjoy the journey, even if you eventually wear out or crash the frame. Besides, in 20-30 years, you may not be able to find Swiss BB cups and French-threaded headsets to keep that thing running.

AGE / VALUE:   Puegot uo8 and motebecan mirage posted by: Bruce G. on 4/15/2001 at 6:24:16 PM
I am trying to determine the value of two bikes in fair to good condition. 1. 1971 Puegot UO8 2.1972 Motobecan Mirage.
Any help would be appreciated. They are for sale

   nothin' special posted by John E on 4/16/2001 at 6:40:27 AM
I don't know, maybe $25 each? They are not collectible, they are not pristine; they are essentially 1970s bike boom yard sale fodder. Of course, they may be worth more to someone needing French BB cups or headset parts, and there is some demand for Mafac brakes and Simplex derailleurs.

From personal experience, I know that UO-8s make nice commuting bikes, but someone GAVE me the 1974 UO-8 I had.