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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Campy Paris-Roubaix Mech posted by: desmo on 6/30/2001 at 8:02:47 PM

None too clever this, but rare and interesting it is.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Campy Paris-Roubaix Mech posted by Oscar on 7/1/2001 at 4:44:21 PM
Does it index?

AGE / VALUE:   Good Weekend!! posted by: Mike Slater on 6/30/2001 at 6:48:07 PM
Picked up a couple of bike this weekend at garage sales.

The first is a Peugeot PKN10 -completely original - 12 speed, with the 531 sticker on the downtube. It has the later silver paint with orange decals,Simplex gear and a stronglight crank. I beleive this is a cheaper variant of the PX-10. Any ideas on the approx. value of this?

The second is a 12 speed Bianchi. The Frame stickers on the downtube and forks read: "Tre Tubi Rinforzati, Bianchi Special, Produzione Columbus". What does this mean??

It has Campy "something" derailers, Ofmega crank (looks like campy), and modolo brakes (ugly looking things). Dropouts and fork ends are campy. Both the seat stay caps and fork crown have a "B" cutout in them. The bike is rather rough, but I took a chance and violated my $10 bike rule and went ahead and paid $40. What do you guys think - winner or loser at $40??

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good Weekend!! posted by Walter on 7/1/2001 at 9:07:19 AM
The Bianchi has Columbus butted tubing. Combine that with Campy dropouts and you have a quality frameset there. Many would pay the 40$ (or more) for the frameset alone. You did fine. (Is it your size?)

I'm not a Peugeot expert though some around here are quite knowledgable and I'm sure they'll give you more but again the Reynolds sticker denotes at least a decent quality level, depending on how much Reynolds is being used. If it fell into your 10$ rule you did very well.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good Weekend!! posted by Mike Slater on 7/1/2001 at 9:57:53 AM
Thanks for the reply Walter - Yes the Bianchi is a good fit. Its approx. a 24.75" c-t. I'm 5'10", but have long legs and arms, big bikes are just more comfortable to ride.

Now the Peugeot is way too small. But...it did fall within my $10 rule and had nice componets. I keep telling myself that I can part it out, but I can never quite bring myself to that with a complete, original bike. Whenever I can pick up a descent bike for $10 or less, well, its a done deal. Plus it keeps wifey from complaining too much!

I also picked up a Centurian for $1 just for the Shimano Exage brakes and levers. These brakes are going on the Bianchi. The Centurian get stripped. Anybody need bio-pace rings??

   great minds think alike posted by John E on 7/1/2001 at 2:31:04 PM
Wow, Mike! You now own very close copies of my three road bikes: Capo, Bianchi, Peugeot PKN-10.

First, the Bianchi. A tretubi rinforzati frame has a double-butted Columbus CrMo main triangle and seamed CrMo stays and fork. My brown '1982 Bianchi came with Ofmega cranks and hubs, modolo brakes, Campy NR derailleurs, pedals, BB, headset, and seat post, and retailed '$800 new. It was a very respectable entry-level racer in its day. One recently fetched close to $200 on eBay.

The Peugeot PKN-10E has a double-butted Reynolds 531 main triangle ("3 tubes renforces") and seamed forks and stays. Beyond the Stronglight crank and Peugeot-branded Simplex derailleurs, what other components does yours have? Russ Fitzgerald's PX-10 website tells quite a bit about the PKN-10E, which was the next-to-top model. Mine is a 1980 and has a 0 near the front of the serial number (you'll see it listed in Russ's discussion). Compared to the beautifully finished and theoretically comparable Bianchi, the craftsmanship on the Peugeot (visible seams, brazing voids, even the paint and decals) is disappointingly sloppy. If the Peugeot frame is not your size, you may want to scrap it for parts, including those rare Swiss-threaded BB cups, which you may need someday to keep the much more valuable Capo running.

   RE:great minds think alike posted by Mike Slater on 7/1/2001 at 8:03:46 PM
Hi John, Here are the rest of the componets on the Peugeot.
Serial number tag: PKN10E54, 4787817
Shifters: Simplex, braze ons
Brakes: Weinmann 605 (I like the 605's!!)
Bars and stem: Atax
Seatpost: SR Laprade
F/R hubs: Normandy Deluxe competition
Wheels: Mavic 700
Brake Handles: Mafac
Pedals: Lyotard
Ouick Release: Malliard

The original owner said that nothing was changed on the bike except the tires. Pretty strange having Mafac brake levers with Weinmann 605's. I think the wheels are going on the Bianchi - what came with Bianchi were not original and just bad.

   wheel swapping posted by John E on 7/1/2001 at 8:24:08 PM
> I think the wheels are going on the Bianchi

Fair enough. The original 6-speed Regina/Ofmega wheelset from my Bianchi is currently on my Peugeot.

   Bianchi and Modolo brakes posted by Walter on 7/3/2001 at 11:57:15 AM
Good move on the brake swap IMO. I have an Exage set that will go on my college-day Cannondale some fine day when I resurrect it. While riding with a college club around '86-87 a number of people had Bianchis similar to what you and John describe. The major change from early to mid-80s appears to be a change from Campy NR derailleurs to 1st generation Athena/Chorus which is what I remember seeing. Same Ofmega cranks and Modolo brakes which most of my companions did not have real high opinions of. When I built my Cdale they talked me out of Modolo and I went Royal Gran Compe. IMO as nice a single-pivot brakeset as you'll find. Sounds heretical but I think they might even be better than the S Records on my Basso.

AGE / VALUE:   Crescent posted by: Tim Welsh on 6/28/2001 at 12:31:02 PM
I have just brought home an unhappy, but complete and clean 'Crescent' which had been abandoned. The bike has 531 forks, but no identification of the frame material. My German room-mate thinks the writing on it is Dutch, and says 'World Class Cylcing'. Fr der and shifters are Huret, rr der is Allvit (?). Drop-outs and large flange hubs are Campy. Brakes are Weinmann centre-pull. Stem is Citan (?). Paint is vivid orange with lots of words and graphics. Steel cranks are one-piece,with a very strange BB. Plastic fenders are there, with front mud-flap. Bars are swept-back, traditional style. I think this would best be considered a 'gentleman's bike', like my Raleigh Clubman but w/o drop bars. Anyone have any more info about the this bike? I think it get to live in the garage with my other 'special' bikes, for now at least.

   Crescent is Swedish, I believe posted by John E on 6/28/2001 at 1:25:30 PM
If the forks are R531, I suspect at least the main triangle is, as well. I have seen very few Crescents over the years, and all have been vivid orange in colour. Yours sounds like a model built for sale in Europe, rather than for American export.

   RE:Crescent is Swedish, I believe posted by Art on 6/28/2001 at 4:38:54 PM
Yes, John it is a Swedish bike. The bottom bracket housing is huge. Is your bike fitted with a three-pin Simplex crank? The badge on these bikes is great.

   RE:RE:Crescent is Swedish, I believe posted by Tim Welsh on 6/29/2001 at 12:39:07 AM
The badge is great, it nearly reaches around to the back of the head tube. I don't know if its a 3-pin Simplex crank - what do I look for? Does this bike have some value?

   RE:RE:RE:Crescent is Swedish, I believe posted by Art on 6/30/2001 at 5:24:38 PM
The crank shouold say Simplex on it.Mine has three arms that hold the chainrings to the spider. Like everything else value on this is really on the beholder. There were a lot of these imported to the us. They are a relatively heavy machine, but they have a certain time-specific nostalgia for some collectors. I bleieve they are mentioned on the Sheldon Brown site. Obviously the better shape they are in, the higher the value. Peter H. who frequents this site and is Swedish may have a lot more to add.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Crescent posted by desmo on 6/30/2001 at 8:12:56 PM
Crescent are not only still in business, but have a great-looking line of bikes. And they still come in that orange!


AGE / VALUE:   Brooks saddle posted by: Martin Higgins on 6/28/2001 at 8:12:08 AM
I literally picked up (off the pavement on dustbin day) a Brooks B5N saddle. Does anyone know when this might date from? It was a bit saggy so I've threaded a boolace through the holes in the side and it currently supplies comfortable backside support on my old Carlton. If anyone's interested this bike also features Blumfield hubs, circa late 1940's? which I recently rebuilt onto Weinmann 27" rims (thanks to Sheldon Brown for wheelbuilding info.) Mavic SSC rear derailleur, Campag Valentino front changer, Weinmann sidepull brakes, GB Ventoux bars, Galli chainset. Yes, it's a real mixture but that what happens when you resolve to put an old bike together but don't spend any real money on it!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks saddle posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/28/2001 at 5:48:37 PM
The T.F. Blumfield hubs are as good or better than Campagnolo. I believe they were lighter too. These are very similar to the B. H. (British Hub) Airlight, Racelight hubs. Bob Reid in his Flying Scot page on Cycles De Oro mentions these hubs. The real scoop with factory pictures, and details about T.F. Blumfield have'nt been uncovered yet and it may just stay a mystery. Very good hubs!
Good find on the seat too!

WANTED:   HeadTube Badge for a Schwinn posted by: Wayne on 6/28/2001 at 7:38:46 AM
Last winter I restored what turned out to be a Schwinn WorldSport lightweight
made in 1983. When I got the bike, it was missing its head tube badge.
Now I would like to find one. If anyone has one, or knows of a source,
could you please let me know.

MISC:   Freewheel vs. cassette posted by: Robert on 6/28/2001 at 6:20:13 AM
A friend who has just retired and closed his bike shop made me a real deal on a rear wheel.
Shimano hub w/ 7 speed cassette. Stainless spokes and Weirman (I know I misspelled it) alloy rim.
32.00 for the package.This is the first cassette type wheel I have ever owned. Only used freewheels before.
My question is , what are the advantages of cassette hubs over freewheel? Are there any ?
For some reason I would prefer a freewheel, probably because I am familiar with that “technology”
And the cassettes are new ground.


   RE:MISC:   Freewheel vs. cassette posted by Walter on 6/28/2001 at 8:11:22 AM
Freehub or cassette design makes a stronger wheel.

I still use freewheels and for 5,6 and even 7 speeds there probably isn't a huge structural advantage. However today Campy is running a 10 speed and Shimano is sure to follow so I guess they're pretty much mandatory on modern bikes.

1 clear advantage you'll have with that wheel is that it's much easier to change individual sprockets and "personalize" your gearing.

   RE:RE:MISC: Freewheel vs. cassette posted by Warren on 6/28/2001 at 9:45:54 AM
..and to expound a little bit, the design is better because the bearings on a cassette hub are positioned at the outside of both ends of the axle, giving better weight distribution. This was extremely important as hub spacings got wider.

   Freewheel vs. cassette posted by John E on 6/28/2001 at 1:29:33 PM
A freehub system also eliminates the self-tightening steel-versus-aluminum threading of the freewheel onto the hub. My bikes all have 6- or 7-speed freewheels, but if I were to replace a rear hub, I would update to a freehub. (Nothing I own has all of its original componentry, anyway.)

   RE:Freewheel vs. cassette posted by Robert on 6/28/2001 at 2:20:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback.


   RE:RE:Freewheel vs. cassette posted by Wings on 6/29/2001 at 11:16:26 PM
One other point. Several (5?) years ago I could not get the cogs that I wanted on a 7 speed freewheel since I was after a wide range. (Not a road bike) I had many more options at that time if I changed the hub and went to a freehub. There were many more casette options to choose from. I would think that is even more true today since we have many more freehubs in use. Last year a bike shop I was in had a bunch of 6 speed freewheels sitting on a counter with a price of $7 on each one -- they were cleaning house.
However, I still use freewheels and I think Sachs currently makes an 8 speed freewheel.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Speedster posted by: Walter on 6/27/2001 at 7:52:39 PM
I noticed an earlier thread about Schwinn Speedsters. I cruised Yahoo auctions and there's a 1959 there. So far bidding is at 51$. I on't have a number but Yahoo auctionns are pretty small. It's in the Bicycles-Collectible (1 of only 8 listings). Figured some of you might be curious.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Speedster posted by Oscar on 6/28/2001 at 9:01:13 AM
I think Speedsters are Schwinn’s apex of creating simple bicycles. There is nothing fancy, unnecessary or impractical about them. A Speedster owner sent me a picture of a 1973 bike she acquired. It’s a coaster model with the fenders and chainguard stripped off. No deraillieur or brake cables necessary. It’s completely simple, like a turn of the century roadster.


None of these qualities make it a collectable bike, however. Just a fast beater bike.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn Speedster posted by Jonathan on 7/1/2001 at 1:39:35 AM
The speedster that I fixed for a friend had a bendix rb2
coaster brake/3sp. rear hub assembly. May I recommend a book; Glenn's Complete Bicycle Manual. It has a great section on the 3 spd. hubs. When I finished tuning the bike, it was a decent riding machine. Nearly the quality of a Raleigh Sports in my humble opinion.
I'm glad that I had the manual; a guy needs it, unless you're a mechanical genius.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by: Walter on 6/26/2001 at 7:54:17 AM
Here's something you don't see every day and the current bid price confirms that!

It's a Campy crankset but predates any I've had the pleasure of working with. Are they really that rare? I know NOS draws top $ but this is really high.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by Bob on 6/26/2001 at 4:18:17 PM
This fellow offers some pretty nice stuff from time to time. The only reason to buy this crank would be to make a high-end road bike from the 60s pristine period correct. Stuff like this is not for bikes we ride, it is for bikes we look at. A used one without rings went for much much less than this amount this past Spring.

In terms of functionality a NR or SR crankset is much cheaper and the chainrings are much easier to find.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by Chuck on 6/26/2001 at 11:40:30 PM
The reason this crank is NOS and has never been used is because it is a length that no one ever needed: 177.5mm! Really only good as a display item in my opinion...

   long cranks posted by John E on 6/27/2001 at 6:44:47 AM
> length that no one ever needed: 177.5mm

At 5'8", I certainly cannot use 177.5mm cranks, but I know alot of taller folk who wish Campy still made cranks of that length, or even 180mm. (TA still does.)

   Campy 151mm BCD crankset posted by John E on 6/27/2001 at 6:51:42 AM
151mm BCD (early Campy and very early Sugino) cranks and rings, though pre bike-boom, do show up from time to time on eBay. These are special only because of the NOS condition and the length. This seller certainly has posted a wide range of interesting components, generally in very good or NOS condition.

   RE: Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by Bob on 6/27/2001 at 10:24:40 AM
The seller of this item is based in Germany. I gather from discussions with a local bike shop owner who is European and travels quite a bit over there that there are still small bike shops to be found with real "treasures" some of which can be picked up very reasonably. My guess is that this crankset came from such a bike shop. Because of its length it never sold and has just sat there for 35 or 40 years gathering dust.

Mix mid-60s with NOS with Campy mistique and it adds up to expensive even when the item itself is not all that wonderful. I recently purchased a Motobecane Grand Record from a local bike shop for $100. The Campy NR derailuers are there but the crank is a TA Professional. Several days ago I saw the same bike shop owner and he showed me a Raleigh Competition GS that he wanted $150 for. Now in my humble opinion a full 531 frame with Campy NR and TA is a much better bike than a 531 main tube frame (dented at that) with all Campy GS components. But the "full Campy" mistique adds to the "value." Not for this little black duck. Campy stuff is great, but some of it is rare for a good reason.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by Walter on 6/27/2001 at 6:16:56 PM
Bob, I tend to agree with you. Inasmuch as any friction shifting bicycle is deemed "obsolete" it does seem that the more Campy the better when it comes to what is deemed collectible.

In this case I agree; that Moto was definitely worth more than that Raleigh. Also the mere name "Campagnolo" is not a guarantee. They made a wide range of equipment.

   Reynolds 531 main triangle vs full posted by John E on 6/27/2001 at 7:03:11 PM
I own four framesets with double-butted main triangles: full Tange Prestige II (CrMo); full Reynolds 531; Columbus Tretubi (main triangle); and Reynolds main triangle. I can definitely feel the difference between a plain carbon steel frame and one with a good moly steel main triangle, but I cannot claim to feel any additional benefit from moly stays and forks. In this sense, perhaps that "full XXX, frame, forks, and stays" label is at least part mystique.

   RE:Reynolds 531 main triangle vs full posted by Bob on 6/28/2001 at 7:20:40 AM
>>but I cannot claim to feel any additional benefit from moly stays and forks. In this sense, perhaps that "full XXX, frame, forks, and stays" label is at
least part mystique.

Caught in my own tubing fetish! I suppose what I meant to say was that having 531 forks and stays was the mark of a better bike -- if price is any measure. In any case the Raleigh I mentioned has a aftermarket chrome fork and replacement rim laced to the original hub -- sounds like the aftermath of a major accident.

Indeed, having Campy components was also the mark of a better bike. But sometimes we confuse form with substance -- the most expensive deraileur with the one that really shifts best. I do it all the time.

   RE:RE: Ebay Item # 1159430366 posted by Tom on 6/28/2001 at 7:41:45 AM
This guy from Germany has a lot of mint stuff every week. He must have been collecting for years. I saw a site a while back and it had a few of his restored bikes on it.He has some of the nicest bikes from the 50's to 70's. If you contact him you may be able to get a few pictures of his bikes.

   Mystique is as mystique does posted by Walter on 6/28/2001 at 7:56:53 AM
My Basso is a thoroughbred, Columbus SL thruout except the forks which are aluminum (sorry coukdn't find appropriate steel ones for a price I'd pay). The Harding I put together for my wife is also pedigreed, Reynolds 531 db including forks. My fixed gear is a mid-70s Japanese LeTour. CroMo but definitely a heavier guage and I doubt butted. Real difference in rides but to be fair also a real difference in rolling stock as well. Campy Record hubs and BBs as opposed to a no-name BB and Sunshine hubs.

The point? I'm not sure to be honest but components can make a difference and the fact is the "mystique" framesets usually get built up with higher-line gruppos.

Stating the obvious I guess.

   Mystique is as mystique does posted by John E on 6/28/2001 at 1:34:37 PM
My point is simply that I doubt I could detect any difference in ride quality or performance between my Tretubi Bianchi and a comparably-equipped (early 1980s Campy NR) full-Columbus SL Bianchi with the same frame geometry.

AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN TRAVELER posted by: Kevin on 6/25/2001 at 5:58:29 PM
Hi. I saw a perfect Schwinn Traveler today. Probally a late 80's or early 90's bike. Where in the Schwinn line did this bike fall? Tubing was True Temper. Thanks, Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN TRAVELER posted by Ed on 6/26/2001 at 5:26:41 AM
We have a Schwinn traveler,men's frame that my daughter bought new in 1982 when she was a college Freshman. She decided that she wanted to go to a ladies frame a couple of years ago and I wound up with the Traveler. All thats been done to it since 82 is new tires replacement of a broken stud in the right brake lever and re-wraping handlebars after brake lever repair. We have the original sales receipt which indicates that my daughter paid $ 247.00 for the bike in 1982. Our Traveler still rides and looks good. Good Luck with yours.

MISC:   Weird brake levers posted by: Oscar on 6/25/2001 at 12:54:58 PM
Unfortunately, I'm doing more walking than riding, but I keep my eyes open. I saw a nice gold mixtie up the road and at first glance it looked like it didn't have brake levers. But it had a rear derailleur, so it had to have levers.

Up close, the drop bar had levers running underneath it, like suicide lever extensions. They clamped to each side of the bar near the stem, and they curved gently to the first curve of the bar. They were made by Mafac, and apparently did not need a traditional hood-lever. I never saw anything like it. You?

The mixtie itself was in great condition but had no decals. I'd gudge it to be mid-1960's.

    Weird brake levers posted by John E on 6/25/2001 at 1:10:29 PM
Yes, I have seen those before. That particular mounting across the top of the drop bars is definitely a Euro-French thing. The levers sound similar to the Weinmann levers I installed more conventionally on my wife's Peugeot, which has mountainbike-like straight handlebars, and I think I have seen pictures of a Rene Herse mixte with the setup you describe.

   RE: Weird brake levers posted by Oscar on 6/25/2001 at 2:56:30 PM
I had to take another look at the bike so I took a fake errand to the post office. The bike has mafac cantilever brakes (!). Best of all it’s an 8 speed in the rear with chainrings of maybe 48 and 24 (!). Ders and brazed on downtube shifters were all Simplex. The wheels looked 26” but maybe were that French 650 size. The only decal was from Wastyn’s Bike Shop in Chicago. The shop originally owned by OW is still a family business. Sources say there’s an amazing basement full of bikes…

   RE:RE: Weird brake levers posted by Oscar on 6/25/2001 at 6:41:03 PM
I meant to say that the rear wheel had a 4-speed freewheel.

MISC:   Info on Lotus posted by: Gralyn on 6/23/2001 at 8:52:08 AM
Where can I find information on Lotus bicycles (early 80's)?
Specifically, Lotus Grand Prix, 1982.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Opinions please posted by: Walter on 6/22/2001 at 7:29:47 PM

Ebay # 1157247501. A Colnago Master from 1983. I might make a run at this if it stays bidless esp. since I live close enough to pick up and save the s/h. Gentlemen,I'd like some of your opinions if you don't mind sharing them. Yes, I'd love to find it for 10$ in a garage sale but I don't have that kind of luck.

The components are S. Record and you can see the chrome lugs. The rack worries me some as the bike wasn't designed for one and I wonder if it defaced the frame to get it on. At the outside of my income envelope but it is my size and according to Sheldon Brown's guide it is a good price. I'm intrigued but not positive so your opinions will be taken to heart.

One question I'm sure my wife will ask: Is this bike a big step up from my similar vintage Basso with S. Record components?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Opinions please posted by Warren on 6/24/2001 at 11:47:14 AM
The rack drives me crazy as well. I also wonder about the wheelset...it says they are clinchers but there is a toestrap hanging from the seat as if it had tubulars on it. Are the hubs still campag? Not enough info for my liking...nothing wrong with an SR equipped Basso!

   Colnago posted by John E on 6/25/2001 at 5:43:15 PM
1) I do not believe the quoted original price. I also think the bike is somewhat older than indicated.
2) The rack appears to attach to the rear brake bolt at the top, which means that it probably did not deface the frame, but also that its load capacity is severely limited by the lack of diagonal bracing.
3) I can't see how the rack is bolted to the Campy (I presume!) dropouts. Perhaps those had rack/mudguard eyelets, but the ones on my 1982 Bianchi do not.
4) My recommendation -- since you already have a nice Italian road bike, pass on this one.

   Thank you posted by Walter on 6/25/2001 at 7:11:44 PM
Warren: Thanks for the heads-up on the wheelset. An email from the seller reveals them to be Miche hubs laced to Wolber rims. The seller claims to know little of bikes and I tend to believe him so I don't suspect intentional misrepresentation. However those wheels are a big step down from what was original to the bike. I wonder why the change?

John: I've looked at that rack (which would immediately come off if I were to buy) dozens of times and do not know how it attaches to the drop-out either. I can't imagine that a Colnago Master would come with touring style drop-outs. Like your Bianchi, my Basso doesn't.

I love my Basso for its ride and for the fact that I restored (built actually as I acquired it as a bare frame). I have for awhile now thought of starting what would be a modest collection of older yet high-line lightweights. A Colnago Master would be a nice start but my initial trepidation is growing and it's enough money to where I want to be sure of what I'm getting.

   Well I let it go posted by Walter on 6/27/2001 at 6:25:13 PM
Auction closed w/o any bids. In a way that makes me feel better. I'm not being petty to the seller but ebay has a wide range of bidders to whom the starting price would not have been an issue. The fact none of them jumped in tells me I got good advice from John and Warren.

The lack of the original wheelset "clinched" it for me so to speak. W/o that it is a nice frame and most of a Campy SR gruppo for an ok but not great price,

Again, thanks for the advice. I'll get my little collection going someday.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info wanted on old Carlton 10-speed posted by: Kevin C. on 6/22/2001 at 6:34:42 PM
Hello--I just picked up an old Carlton Continental 10-speed with drop handlebars, very light, aluminum rims, 10-speed. Headbadge says it was made in Worksop, England. I have been told that Carltons have handmade frames and were part of Raleigh. Any information could be appreciated. It's a nice riding bike ... especially for $10!

   You did well. posted by Walter on 6/23/2001 at 7:25:42 AM
Others around here can give you more specific info. I know enough about Carlton and Raleigh to tell you that you will have a hard time finding a better way to spend a ten-spot!

What are the components? If original they can help with age. But even if it were just a bare frame you still have a nice find.

Should be a fine rider indeed.

   Carlton posted by John E on 6/25/2001 at 1:14:59 PM
Nice find, Kevin. To help us determine how nice, please tell us more about lugwork, components, frame tubing decals, etc. I still hope someday to talk my sister-in-law out of her 56cm blue-over-chrome Carlton, which has the typical high-end 1960s component mix of Weinmann centerpulls with Campy derailleurs and hubs. You definitely got your money's worth!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info wanted on old Carlton 10-speed posted by Kevin C. on 6/27/2001 at 6:37:49 PM
It has aluminum Shimano shift levers; Suntour derailleur, aluminum Sakae chainring and a nice Brooks racing saddle. It's a really tall frame, but just right for me, who has a 36-inch inseam.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Info wanted on old Carlton 10-speed posted by Walter on 6/28/2001 at 8:04:50 AM
Sounds like someone mixed and matched. Maybe as they replaced original equipment or someone built up the frame. The Brooks may well be original. Especially as it's your size you did great. Keep it as is or look for 70s era Campy N Record if you really want to spend more money. Can you see a make on the headset?

FOR SALE:   Vintage Peugeot posted by: Richard Cheatham on 6/22/2001 at 4:17:56 PM
I have a twenty year old Peugoet that's been hanging in a garage for all but 1 year. This beautiful machine is available for purchase. It has ALL the highest level racing components that were available then and is a top of the line frame. Spec sheet and photos available.

AGE / VALUE:   Cheesehead Cinelli posted by: dave on 6/22/2001 at 1:05:48 PM
Driving to work this morning saw a sign for a yard sale, saw a couple of bikes in the driveway so I stopped. Bikes were junkers, but then spotted a frame and fork on a blanket. Looked like a nice touring style frame, tho painted in a black and white "cow" pattern (I live in Wisconsin).
Price tag said $1, paid the man and said thanks, then walking back to the car looked at the bottom of the bottom bracket shell and there was the Cinelli name. I looked at the Cyclesdeoro site. Lugs look right, but it does not have the fastback seat stay arrangement. Friend at LBS said maybe it was a custom frame somebody built using a Cinelli bb ...
any ideas on how to tell what this really is? ... oh dropouts are Campy, size looks to be '57 cm c-c

   nice find! nice price! big score! posted by John E on 6/22/2001 at 3:00:47 PM
With those dropouts and BB shell, I don't care what it "really" is. I'm jealous! Maybe Desmo can tell you more about it. Do all Cinellis have fastback seat clusters?

   Nice job! posted by Walter on 6/23/2001 at 7:19:39 AM
I echo John here. Very nice find. I looked at the Classic Bike Price Guide put out by Sheldon Brown. Some things to look for: Are there Cinelli logos on the brake bridge? What is the seattube diameter? 26.2 seems to be the "classic" Cinelli number. After 1983 they went to a 27.2 seattube. I guess the brakebridge would be the primary determiner here.

However, even if your LBS is right your frame is still a very nice custom and 57cm is a widely used size too. Very nice find.

   RE:Nice job! posted by dave on 6/24/2001 at 11:11:14 AM
Seat tube seems to be 26.6 (?) ... no logo on the brake bridge. Also, fork has Campy ends and the triangular inside lugs on the fork blades have the three circle cutouts ...
Maybe the fork is a real Cinelli and the rest of the frame was built around it using Cinelli BB??

Why don't I ever find these things in my size?

   RE:RE:Nice job! posted by Warren on 6/24/2001 at 2:53:16 PM
Probably a 26.8 seatpost...could be an early columbus straight gauge tubeset...I think someone told me that early SL tubing took a 26.8. I would take some citrus stripper and start losing the Holstein motif very carefully. You may find some identifying decals underneath. You certainly won't be de-valuing the frame

   RE:RE:RE:Nice job! posted by desmo on 6/24/2001 at 10:47:04 PM
Not enough info, but the Cinelli name on the cast BB shell suggests that it is considerably newer than shell on my '71 which has no identifying marks. The new-style logo was cast into the BB shells starting around '80(?) The Cinelli lugsets were popular among frame builders. I have another frame with a Columbus SL OR tubeset that uses a 26.8 post, they seem to be common for steel frame ATBs. I've never seen a Cinelli with any but a 26.2 pin, even my 531-tubed Speciale Corsa. Any frame with Cinelli lugs and Campy d/os is likely good stuff, enjoy!

   RE: ... last word on this frame posted by dave on 6/25/2001 at 2:51:38 PM
I took the frame and fork to another LBS and talked to the owner (who is also a frame builder). He said for sure a custom job .. mix of parts. Fork crown also Cinelli, brake bridge is Italian but not Cinelli, some of the cable stops English. No serial number of builder ID. Geometry is very touring. He thought the brazing competent and professional. Likely done late '70s, early '80s

   RE:RE: ... last word on this frame posted by Walter on 6/25/2001 at 7:17:20 PM
I saw a nice Motobecane on ebay (didn't get the #, sorry) that has a Cinelli BB shell. Until I read about your frame and then saw that Moto I didn't know Cinelli provided frame parts to other builders.

Learned something today. (:

   last word posted by John E on 6/26/2001 at 6:25:06 AM
Congratulations on a great find, Dave, and thank you for starting a very interesting and educational thread. You can't do much better than a well-made one-of-a-kind touring frame with top-quality lugs and workmanship. You can also repaint it and equip it with any components, without worrying about historical accuracy. Outstanding!