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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

WANTED:40-hole 27-inch rims posted by: Rudgematch on 7/25/2001 at 9:42:57 AM
Collective knowledge of the Vintage Lightweight discussion list, can you help me? I need a source for 40-hole clincher rims of the 27-inch size. Preferably something of higher quality. A pair is good, any more is great.
Thanks for any assistance.


   RE:WANTED:40-hole 27-inch rims posted by sundialer@mindspring.com on 8/3/2001 at 11:35:16 PM
You might try: http://classicbikes.essexbusinesslink.com/


FOR SALE:Falcon 54cm frame & fork, Reynolds 531 posted by: Jim on 7/25/2001 at 6:30:41 AM
I purchased this a complete bike,new in 1989. Frame is in excellent condition with very few miles. Model is Competitor 105. 54 c to top of seat tube, 52 to top of top tube. Came equipped with all Shimano 105, 105 headset and bottom bracket still in place. Setpost included. It's on ebay, item # 11709550 - it's mine, I hope this isn't crass to do !

   RE:FOR SALE:Falcon 54cm frame & fork, Reynolds 531 posted by Brian L. on 7/25/2001 at 9:04:52 AM
Wrong #

   RE:FOR SALE:Falcon 54cm frame & fork, Reynolds 531 posted by Jim on 7/26/2001 at 11:06:53 AM
Thanks Brian. It's 1170955502

AGE / VALUE:Shelby Donald Duck 20" Boys Bike posted by: Ralph K. on 7/23/2001 at 10:54:31 AM
I am the original owner of this 1950's bike. It has been stored in the attic, the condition I would critique as not perfect but excellent! I have no idea the value of this bike and I'm seriously considering SELLING it but am curious it would be worth more if I entertained the thought of really restoring it??? I know there are professionals out there who could rely on to do this for me. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Shelby Donald Duck 20 posted by Gary M on 7/23/2001 at 10:41:34 PM
Guys correct me if i am wrong here, i think that Donald Duck bike is probably the most valuable bike ever produced in America. I would wax it and consign it to Sothebys or some other Giant Auction house with a large reserve. you may be in for a shock

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Shelby Donald Duck 20 posted by JOEL on 7/24/2001 at 11:15:13 AM
Well...It's not the MOST valuable but a really nice original boy's will fetch a good price. If it is as nice as you say, DO NOT MESS WITH THE ORIGINAL FINISH. If you want to sell it, list on EBAY with some really good pictures.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Shelby Donald Duck 20 posted by Cal on 7/25/2001 at 6:32:51 AM
Be sure to post your question under the Balloon Tire topic, too. There will be lots of ballooner people interested in your Donald Duck bicycle.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Restoring late 60's bottechia posted by: bob langdon on 7/22/2001 at 6:11:19 PM
I purchased a bottechia 10 speed road bicycle in 1969 and have had it since. It was my main transportation for two years in college and is a wonderful bicycle. It needs restoration and I am totally in the dark as to how to do this.

Any advice ? I am mechanically inclined but have no experience with bicycles. The sprockets appear worn and I would like to replace them. where can I get 5 sprocket sets ? I'm not interested in a classic restoration unless it has any value.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Restoring late 60's bottechia posted by Bob on 7/23/2001 at 9:14:42 AM
For the 5-speed gear cluster you might try some local bike shops. If that fails, one can often find them on eBay -- look for NOS (New Old Stock). If your rear cluster is worn badly enough to replace you should also replace the chain.
The freewheel cluster requires a special tool to remove so you will probably have to take it in to a bike shop to have the old one taken off.
The value of your Bottechia depends on several factors -- model, components, condition. A local bike shop has a nice one about that vintage, all N-Record components that they are asking $425 for -- it's been there for a while.

   Restoring late 60's bottechia posted by John E on 7/23/2001 at 10:40:44 AM
Since Bottechia made a wide range of bicycles [sheldonbrown.com], I cannot assess the collectibility of yours without knowing more about its components and frame material. If you replace any original components, even those which seem worn, consider saving them for a future collector.

CyclArt.com, sheldonbrown.com, and others specializing in restorations still stock 5-speed freewheels, or you may be able to steal a decent one from a $5 yard sale junker 10-speed. You can also substitute a narrow-spaced ("ultra-6") six-speed, or, if your rear axle is 126mm overlock (rear triangle width between dropouts), it may be able to take a 7-speed or standard-width 6-speed freewheel. Get a new chain (SRAM 58 is one good choice) if your old one has elongated by more than 1/2 percent, i.e. 1/16" per 12" of original length. Replace your brake pads (save if original) with KoolStops, and replace cables and cable housings if they show any signs of wear, fraying, etc. Disassemble, clean, and repack all bearings. The screw threads on both sides of your Italian bottom bracket are standard clockwise-threaded (the single worst feature of Italian frames). If you do remove the fixed cup for cleaning or replacement, be sure to reassemble it very tightly, perhaps with LocTite.

Given the age of your bike, your chainrings are probably 3-bolt or 144mm BCD 5-bolt, unless you have 122mm Stronglights or 128mm Nervars. You can probably find replacements through eBay and a vintage parts specialist, but you need to be lucky or patient. Japanese 144mm rings are pretty common, and 130mm rings are very easy to Dremel to fit Nervar.

Good luck with your project. It sounds worthwhile.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Restoring late 60's bottechia posted by Richard Robinson on 7/24/2001 at 5:04:18 AM
Hello all. I too have just purchased what I believe to be a late 60's Bottecchia. The price was right and in that hard to find 62cm c to c size. I know very little about them, only what I've read on Sheldon Brown's web site.
I would like to pinpoint the date a little closer and determine what parts are original and what was an upgrade. Any help would be appreciated. The following is a list of parts and frame specs:

The tubing is Columbus speciale w/ chrome head lugs

Giro di Italia model with "Campione del Mondo 1966" decal

Nervar Star cranks?

Carmielli stem?

Dolomiti saddle?

Early Record derailleurs

Miche hubs (?) with Ambrosio Montreal sew-up rims

The only part missing was the brake calipers but the levers and hardware are Universal so I'm guessing it came with 61's or maybe Super 68's.

I know very little about most of the parts except the Record ders and universal brakes. Any help you can provide in identifying the frame age and components would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Regards, Rich

   Campy dating posted by John E on 7/24/2001 at 6:41:24 AM
According to my only (and admittedly imperfect) source, "The Dancing Chain," the Record derailleur came out in 1963, the Nuovo Record in 1968. I have been unable to determine the production years of the Nervar Star crankset (I suspect mid-60s to mid-70s), which anachronistically graces my 1960 Capo, which predated aluminum cranks by a few months. Given your 1966 decal and the emergence of the NR derailleur in 1968, are we looking at a '66, '67, or possibly '68 model year?

   RE:Campy dating posted by Richard Robinson on 7/24/2001 at 2:53:58 PM
My guess is that it's a '67. Given that a decal wouldn't grace a frame until the following year after a successful win and I believe that the World Championship race is held at the end of the cycling season.
Does the Columbus tubing decal give you any indication where this bike may have been placed in the Bottecchia line-up, low, mid or high end? And do you know anything about the seat, stem and hubs? Thanks!

Regards, Rich, Hot as He!! Okinawa, Japan

   RE:RE:Campy dating posted by Bob La on 7/24/2001 at 5:12:30 PM
I posted the original note on my bottechia. Thanks for all the good info to all. As I said, I ordered it with the smallest frame I could get as I am 5' 3" tall. It was around $120 when I purchased it which puts it around the mid range end if I am not mistaken. The decals have the 1966 one you mentioned and also sports decals indicating champion of italy 1964,65,66,and 67. From what I remember the columbus tubing was popular at the time.

   RE:RE:RE:Campy dating posted by Richard Robinson on 7/24/2001 at 7:25:11 PM

What type of derailleurs, seat, stem, hubs and cranks are on your Bottecchia? If you have any photos of your bike I'd love to see them. I currently have only a few photos of my Bottecchia that were taken before any work has been done. If you like I can send them via email. This might help the both of us in completing our projects. Thanks!

Regards, Rich

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Campy dating posted by Bob on 7/24/2001 at 8:51:15 PM

The seat is long gone as is the rear derailleur. They were victum's of a long ago fall I took. The quick release hubs are Camponolo. These are still good and I recently cleaned them and repacked them. They still are very effecient and smooth running. Rims are original but very rusty. Spokes are no longer original. The original spokes were tapered! The pedals have long gone by the wayside as they wore out. I wasn't smart enough to keep any of these items for a restoration. The cranks have pins in them and I am not sure what manufacturer they are.

I actually am riding the bike in the farmland roads nearby and will probably just upgrade it to make a comfortable touring bicycle. I will keep any original parts if I or someone else in the future wants to do a classic restoration. Pictures may be of little value to you since so many parts are no longer original.

Don't have any pictures yet. I'll see if I can borrow my son's digital camera or scan some regular one's.

WANTED:C-Record Rd Derailleur/Parts needed posted by: Eric on 7/22/2001 at 1:35:21 PM
Looking for an upper body bushing for a C-Record Rr Derailleur. Or a good C-Record Rr derailleur. Email me please. Thanks.

FOR SALE:NOS UKAI 27" 36 hole rims posted by: Jim on 7/22/2001 at 12:28:01 PM
For sale NOS UKAI 27" 36 hole rims. These are steel. Nice replacements for your vintage ride. I have six pairs available. $30 a pair shipped. Will do better on additional pairs. Email for photos.

AGE / VALUE:Tyler Made in Polland posted by: Danny on 7/22/2001 at 12:22:12 PM
I picked up several bikes to refurbish and give to kids in my town. One of the bikes is a Small girls stingray style with a banana seat, probably made in the 60's, its light green with silver logo stickers. Serial #79985025 Tyler Made in Polland.
I've never heard of this brand, curious to any info. about it. Thanks Danny

FOR SALE:Lot of NOS SR Custom seat posts Vintage posted by: Jim on 7/22/2001 at 12:21:38 PM
Lot of 8 SR Custom seat posts all are NOS. In addition there are 2 other SR posts that are fluted and one that is black fluted of a different brand. $45 shipped for the lot, I'll keep it simple for the math wizards. View them at http://www.coconutgirls.com/bikeyard/sr

AGE / VALUE:Gitane Track bike posted by: David on 7/21/2001 at 8:08:04 PM
I have come across a Gitane track bike.
I would like to determine age and value.
The Frame is labeled:
Campion de Mondlo
Record del'Heuere

The frame serial number is 54204 on the rear drop out
there is a 59 stamped in the head tube
the cranks are Nevar steel with skip tooth chain.
The rear hub is a Baylisswiley double sided threading with a mavic tubular rim
the front hub is a scrpit Atom with a fiemme rim
the bars and stem are steel
the lugs at the seat post are concave with red , white and blue colors across the top

I assume the frame from '54 but the equipment does not seem correct. Can anyone give me more information?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Gitane Track bike posted by Bob on 7/21/2001 at 8:37:30 PM
Check Sheldon Brown's web site pricing guide. He tends to over-estimate in my opinion, and remember his estimates are based on guidline condition bikes. If the price is reasonable I certainly wouldn't pass this one up if I were you.

If it is in decent condition it should certainly be preserved if possible.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Gitane Track bike posted by Warren on 7/22/2001 at 9:34:26 AM
I don't know specifics about Gitanes...it's just a guess that the front wheel seems like it would be period and correct along with the cranks, bars and stem. A real nice bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:Gitane Track bike posted by Keith on 7/23/2001 at 10:34:27 AM
Beware! During this era Gitane made an entry level track bike that was roughly equivalent to their next-to-bottom-line Interclub road bike, and some were imported. A friend of mine rode one when he was an Intermediate racer (13 and under) in the early 70s. Not a throw away, but NOT worth restoration. Plain carbon steel. I don't know the serial numbers for Gitane. The skip tooth and rear hub suggest an older top end bike, but be sure you have something nice before sinking any $ into it. The CR group folks might be able to help you.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:What years for Raleigh Grand Prix? posted by: Gralyn on 7/21/2001 at 4:38:19 AM
I found a Raleigh Grand Prix at a bike shop/store. It is in pretty good original condition - appears to need a good cleaning and tune-up, and new tires. I didn't get the serial number from it...but I guess it is probably circa 1980? I have a Lotus Grand Prix from early 80's, and I have seen others from that time-period....maybe that was a popular time for "Grand Prix". But specifically, the Raleigh???? They wanted $80 for it...I offered them $50...but they would not take it. Any ideas?

   What years for Raleigh Grand Prix? posted by John E on 7/21/2001 at 1:51:04 PM
You may want to check out the "retro Raleighs" website, which has been mentioned in this forum. I recall seeing Grand Prix specimens in the 1970s, and there was the Lenton Gran Prix of the 1950s.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:What years for Raleigh Grand Prix? posted by gary on 7/25/2001 at 1:30:48 PM
Hi..my neighbor just gave me a late 1970s Raleigh Gran Prix in very good condition. Any idea what it is worth??


VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Assistance Please posted by: Brian L. on 7/20/2001 at 10:54:27 PM
Just tonight I picked up a very straight and reasonably clean Claude Butler. Semi-original spec from the looks of it. Bought it from the 2nd or possibly 3rd owner. It has been fairly well cared for, and obviously ridden, but not abused.

I would like assistance dating it. Brakes/stem/bars appear original and are: Weinmann Vainqueur 610s, drilled levers w/ integral q.r. and brass (not plastic) bushing on the caliper pivots; forged GB stem w/ recessed binder bolt and interesting flat side section; no-name alloy bars. DT clamp on shifters are Campy block-letter friction. Front derailleur is semi-cheap Huret Alvit and rear is Suntour BL (obvious replacement). Seatpost and seat are not original. Wheels are Atom bolt-on hubs w/ no-name chrome 27" rims, but rear has nice double threading for fixed/freewheel option.

Frame is the real mystery to me. Serial # is 007179 which would seem to indicate 70's (i.e. post Claude Butler ownership), but detailing would indicate much earlier. Frame and for decals are 531 w/ box-section fork crown and round blades. Drop-outs appear to be stamped both front and rear. Rear does not have integral hanger. Lugs are semi-long point, not ornate (Bocama?, could be anybodys). Brazing is decent, but not phenomenal. Rear spacing is 126. Things in particular that would make me think that it's older: 1) Fork has old-style light mounting bracket, 2) frame has old-style double pump pegs under the top tube and 3) lack of derailleur hanger on a full 531 bike. I suppose that the Brits were behind the times by the 70's though, as I recall that Raleigh Super Courses were available w/ 531 main and fork tubes, with similar pump peg set-ups and still lacked derailleur hangers into the 70's. What about that rear hub?

Opinions please.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Assistance Please posted by Brian L. on 7/20/2001 at 11:26:23 PM
I will add: 1)decals are foils, kind of cheesy, w/ Claud Butler in big serif script both side of d.t. World champion stipes upper and lower part of s.t. and big foil "CB" in the middle of s.t., 2)nice head badge in full color and 3) bland olive drab paint - no pin-striping or anything.

   cranks and pedals? posted by John E on 7/21/2001 at 1:58:12 PM
What cranks, pedals, freewheel (5- or 6-speed?) and gearing pattern (half-step, 1.5-step, crossover, etc.) does it have? It could be late 1960s, when 12-speed bikes with 126mm rear axles were rare. Half-step gearing would probably indicate early 1960s.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Assistance Please posted by Bob on 7/21/2001 at 2:53:27 PM
Drilled levers suggests 70s. They may not be original, but thats when people were drilling everything in sight.
Recessed binder bolt suggests 70s as well.
Bocama lugs are French and high quality, semi long point suggests Bocama Professional. My '63 Sutter has Bocama lugs but so did much later 70s bikes. Bocama lugs have "BCM" stamped on them in a little box.
If the bike came with a Huret rear deraileur it would not have needed a rear hanger. Possibly a Super Allvit which could wrap a lot of chain. Does the frame have a long wheelbase? It might be a touring frame.
Reynolds is a respectable tubing for the 70s.
I agree with John E., look at the stuff that is less likely to get changed out, cranks, stem and handlebars.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Assistance Please posted by Brian L. on 7/21/2001 at 4:28:12 PM
Not BCM lugs, at least couldn't spot the box. Cranks, rings and BB are all later Shimano and much hated Biopace. Last owner put them in. Geometry is pretty square and not too slack, although wheelbase is on the longish side. Haven't taken all the careful measurements - just an eyeball assessment.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Colnago identification posted by: Rusty on 7/20/2001 at 8:39:57 AM
I just bought a Colnago bicycle and I want to make sure it it is the real thing. It is red metallic with black on the front andtop of the fork. It has a Campy Strada crank and Strada Lambda wheels. The front tube has circular cutouts in the tube bracing near the front colnago decal. The decals are white on a clear backing. Thanks in advance!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Colnago identification posted by Walter on 7/20/2001 at 5:04:31 PM
What are the dropouts? Colnago used/uses their own for many of their frames. While decals et.al can be duplicated (forged) it's not likely dropouts would be. If they're Campy you might still be OK but will have to do more research. If they're no name you might need to start sweating.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Colnago identification posted by Keith on 7/23/2001 at 10:36:45 AM
No club symbol cutouts anywhere? Hmmm.

MISC:Must See Book posted by: Keith on 7/20/2001 at 7:49:37 AM
Anyone interested in bicycle and bicycle component design absolutely must pick up a copy of this year's EnCycleOpedia (Overlook 2001). I got mine at Borders. Trust me on this one -- at least go and look at it.

AGE / VALUE:   American Flyer posted by: Jim on 7/20/2001 at 12:23:27 AM
I have an imaculately restored American Flyer ten-speed ( early 70s) that appears to have pipe instead of tubeing and hand carved Nervex lugs. All I really know about it is that some spandex shorts wearing dudes took a serious look at me as they blew past me. Was it the cigarette in my mouth, the bicycle or a little bit of both?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   American Flyer posted by Bob on 7/20/2001 at 4:08:23 PM
I think these bikes were made in Japan. The only one I have seen was not a bad bike -- if a little the worse for wear. It had nice Weyless hubs.

Old "retro" bikes make the Spandex crowd nervous for some reason. The other morning I was loafing along on my way to work and one of these dudes went zipping past me. I picked up my cadence a bit and pulled up behind him -- no big deal. This gets the poor guy out of the saddle and on to the big chainring. We went along for a mile or so until my turn off.

No doubt he had a lot of money tied up in his rig and outfit so he should have been a lot faster than a middle-aged man on an old ugly Motobecane -- isn't that what we pay all that money for?

Be careful not to pass these guys -- then you become a "Retro Grouch."

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   American Flyer posted by Jim on 7/22/2001 at 11:14:19 PM
It has all japanese components so I think your right."Retro Grouch." Ha Ha! Figured there would be a slang term for it. I'd probably have to upgrade to be at that level. Right now I mostly get nods from other guys that have lost their licenses :)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   American Flyer posted by Guy B. Meredith on 7/29/2001 at 2:29:44 PM
Please describe the American Flyer in more detail. I have an American Flyer
Jewel Gran Sport and am curious about like bikes. Mine came with:

Frame: No name, fancier than normal lugs with generally very good brazing
Rear deraileur: SunTour GT
Front deraileur: SunTour Sport
Freewheel: SunTour Perfect 14-34
Crank: Maxi 3 spoke
Chain wheels: 42-54 (?)
Brakes: Diacompe center pull with Mafac cable hardware
Brake levers: SunTour Power shift stem mounted
Stem: SR
Handlebar: Sakai 40 cm
Rims: 27" Araya Lightalloy

It is not seeing much use now that I bought a brand new 1985
Fuji League, but I have found it to be a pretty good bike. I
used it to commute 15 miles one way in the mid-1970s and averaged
about 18 miles per hour even with stopping for all traffic lights
and stop signs. Has a low gear that was unsusual for the street
bikes of the time.

FOR SALE:NOS Campy Cable Guide posted by: Jim on 7/19/2001 at 7:48:27 PM
For sale NOS Campy Cable guide. You also get the used one with it. $25 shipped. View it at http://bikeyard.mindspring.com/campy