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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

MISC:   It's kinda a like a greasy fingerprint on a whitewall tire... posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 11/22/2002 at 9:24:06 PM
First, a thank you to those who sent us email when the inappropriate comments popped up on this page today. We can't monitor these discussion areas all day long and we appreciate it when you let us know someone's gone overboard.

Second, to those of you who choose to snipe and write gross stuff, you probably feel like a jerk afterwards. Kinda the same feeling you get when you realize you've left a big, greasy fingerprint on a whitewall tire. So next time, take a step away from the keyboard and take a few breaths before replying in a heated discussion.

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles

   RE:MISC:   It's kinda a like a greasy fingerprint on a whitewall tire... posted by Keith on 11/25/2002 at 9:15:18 PM
Vin -- thanks for taking care of the problem and maintaining this great site. It's a wonderful asset to us vintage enthusiasts!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   identify posted by: AJ on 11/22/2002 at 3:23:24 AM
looked at a Centurian LaMans,never seen one before anyone have info on it? thanks AJ

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   identify posted by Gralyn on 11/22/2002 at 3:36:48 PM
Centurion LeMans:
I have one. There's one on e-bay identical to the one I have - except that the one on e-bay is a 19" frame and mine is a 25" frame. Same color, components, etc. I stripped mine and put the components on another bike...because 25" frame is too big for me. I ride a 21" or 23" frame. I believe the one on e-bay lists out all the components...very detailed post. If that's not the one your looking at....check it out. But, I don't know what they originally sold for....but the one I have - has a really good frame...Tange Triple butted...something like that....very light, very good all around. I just regretted that when I found it - it wasn't my frame size. I haven't been able to find another one, though.

AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by: Kevin K on 11/21/2002 at 10:39:30 PM
Hi all. I know this topic has been discussed before here. Please refresh my memory. These are water transferes and they are the most stubborn decals I've ever dealt with. Need your help please. Thanks,Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Your chemistry teacher on 11/21/2002 at 11:21:19 PM
2/3 water, 1/3 ammonia solution. Soak into rags and wrap the rags around the tube, or lay them on directly.

I have a bike that once was completely covered in reflective tape. It took days with a hairdryer and flat dowel, and then citrus solution for the adhesive.

There will be a test Wednesday.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Hallyx on 11/22/2002 at 1:12:01 AM
I use my fingernails...and nothing harder or sharper. Tedious but safe.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Kevin K on 11/22/2002 at 1:51:58 AM
Hey guys. These decals laugh at solutions and nails. I've resorted to 1000 grit sandpaper and I've gone through to primer and the decals still intact. Normally the above would have worked but not this time. Kevin K

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Wings on 11/23/2002 at 5:19:02 AM
Sorry to hear about the sandpaper -- I think I tried that once and it caused the material to ball up -- it did not work and I think it will actually make it worse.

At the point where you are I would get a razor blade knife. NOT the box cutting type but the type used by painter to remove paint from windows. Mine has a folding handle and give a perfect angle for the blade. Just shave it off the tube! Sometimes soaking with simple green helps. Sometimes softening it with a hair dryer first helps and then I can lift it and grab it with my fingers an just pull it off in strips. Mostenbachers remover (The one for all types of glue) is excellent with just a dab on a rag to wipe the paint off. If the rag does not work then steel wool with Mostenbachers on it works great but change the steel wool often as the solution lifts the glue so new sides are needed.

Those steps always work for me! Good luck!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Ray on 11/22/2002 at 4:27:05 PM
Kevin, sure you are not sand papering the head tube badge? Ha-Ha not so funny but seriously. I have had great success if the paint is strong using tape over the transfer and pulling it off slowly. You can use a stronger tape like duct tape for hard to remove transfers or less agressive tape like scotch tape for those that will come off easier. Do this slowly at first to see how it is going. If you vary your speed of removal it may help also. Sometime I have to pull the tape off like a bandage, quick and fast. If you paint is strong then it should work fine for you.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Kevin K on 11/23/2002 at 1:14:30 PM
Hi. Well. I've ask a friend to put down a fresh coat of new lacquer on the frame as it's evident these things will not come off without sanding them off with at least 600, if not 400 gtit paper. The blue metallic on the frame is an easy match,or he just might do something fun with it. I tried the methods suggested on 2 junk frames I have with water transferes. Came right off. These decals simply won't. That's ok. I'm sure this bike will turn out just fine. This guy has done several bikes in the past, mostly tandems so he knows it's alot of work to get it right. Thanks for all the advice. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DECAL REMOVAL posted by Wings on 11/24/2002 at 9:04:15 AM
If you have any scratches from sand paper in the area you sanded be sure to sand them out with finer sand paper before painting.
Good Luck!

AGE / VALUE:   Stacey is ruining a great board & its a shame posted by: Ron on 11/21/2002 at 9:25:41 PM
I visit this board from time to time to read the great bike talk. Latly, All I seem to see is this Stacey nonsence. Frankly, I can do without Staceys foul mouth postings on this board. If She can't control herself, Maybe she should post elsewhere. This used to be a great board. Its a shame. Thanks Stacey.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stacey is ruining a great board & its a shame posted by Deepak Chopin on 11/21/2002 at 11:22:26 PM
Who are you?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ron has cranial rectalitis, and it's an even bigger shame! posted by Stacey on 11/21/2002 at 11:52:38 PM
Thanks for the recognition, Ron though I feel it totally unjustified. Clearly you must be a government statistician.

I took the liberty of reviewing the past 10 pages of postings which amount to approxamatly 500 individual posts. Of those 500 or so posts a whopping eight, yes that's EIGHT of them were mine. Of those eight, only one of them contained anything that could be considered remotely profane. It would seem as though you are lacking comprehension skills and perhaps your reading level it that of a less than a high school graduate. Please, go back those ten pages and reread my posts... or better yet have your Mommy read (and explain) them to you. Maybe then you'll see that by and large my submittions here are generally of the helpfull nature. Only when hi-jacked, bashed and cornered do I become badgerlike in my disposition.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stacey is ruining a great board & its a shame posted by The Oldroads bunch on 11/22/2002 at 3:02:34 AM
Ron...whoever you are, please go away. Stacey is a welcome participant and you are obviously having too many problems. There was someone else who once took exception to Stacey's postings...hmmn, I wonder.

See if you can construct a sentence without being abusive. When you can do that, people will talk to you too.
Is 07069@yahoo.com your email address? We'll can have someone contact you about your "issues" if you want to persist. It won't be too difficult to find out who you are.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Stacey is ruining a great board & its a shame posted by Ron will be gone on 11/22/2002 at 7:28:12 PM
Ron, look fast, 'cause your posts are about to be gone.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   vintage french components posted by: Brian L. on 11/21/2002 at 8:09:42 PM
Wow, I wouldn't want to get in a verbal, or other, jousting match with Stacey. Ouch.

Anyhow, I put a Huret Duopar long cage rear and matching vintage front (not sure what model, Allvit?) on the Raleigh Grand Sport. Very good performance - crisp accurate shifting with little trimming required. I've always like Mafac brakes. I have limited experience with French components in general. Why do they have such a bad rep - the inherent cheapness of Simplex Delrin?

   BCDs posted by John E on 11/22/2002 at 11:26:24 PM
Actually, Mike, Stronglight used a 122mm BCD. CyclArt and others occasionally have chainrings in this size. Nervar used a 128mm BCD, for which Bill Putnam and I have successfully adapted standard 130mm chainrings, using a Dremel tool.

   RE:RE:vintage french components posted by Brian L. on 11/23/2002 at 12:52:31 AM
I have to agree with all of the last 3 postings and add that list pretty much sums up a lot of my component "watch" list these days.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   vintage french components posted by Oscar on 11/23/2002 at 2:49:22 AM
Mike - why don't you like Normandy hubs. Do they have weak races? I like their looks because they shine up nice.

   RE:vintage french components posted by Walter on 11/23/2002 at 3:15:08 AM
An addition to the "Like" list: Look pedals. They've been around awhile now and my old ones from the later 1980s are as smooth as my new ones. I have a variety of vintages on my bikes but since Look has kept their cleat design consistent I can hop on any bike w/o much thought. Infinitely superior I'm afraid to the similar vintage Campy SGR pedals. (I've got a pair on a 80s Basso but I don't like the 2 step clipping out procedure at all.

Mavic rims are a contant for me as well.

Michelin tires haven't been mentioned but their clincher line has served me well for well over 20 years now.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   vintage french components posted by Mike Slater on 11/22/2002 at 1:54:56 PM
I don't think the French components in general have a bad rep. There are some people that for some reason seem to think the Simplex delrin derailer is garbage. I think it works just fine, as do the other models of Simplex and Huret that I use. I'm not too fond of the basic HF Normandy hub that flooded the market in the 70s, but this does not mean all Normandy hubs are bad. I've also never had any problem with Mafac centerpull brakes - never even had the dreaded "squeal" that is supposed to be a common issue with these brakes.

There are a lot of good quality French components around - if the parts appeal to you, use them, judge for yourself!

   vintage french components posted by John E on 11/22/2002 at 6:07:58 PM
My personal likes among French components:
1) high-end Stronglight, TA, and Nervar aluminum cranksets;
2) Mafac brake calipers, retrofitted with KoolStop pads;
3) aluminum-bodied Zefal pumps;
4) Sedis/Sachs/SRAM chains;
5) high-end Mavic rims;
6) high-end Rigida rims.

My personal dislikes:
1) Delrin-bodied pushrod-style Simplex front derailleurs;
2) Delrin-bodied rear derailleurs -- almost any SunTour of the same vintage and price will handily outshift any of them;
3) Mafac brake levers, but only because Weinmanns fit my hands much better;
4) plastic-bodied Zefal pumps;
5) Helicomatic hubs;
6) AVA "stems of death."

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   vintage french components posted by Keith on 11/22/2002 at 6:43:10 PM
I think French componentry got a bad rep in the early 70s because so many many bikes were sold with the crummy Simplex Prestige and only slightly better Huret Alvit. Don't get me wrong -- either derailleur will work, but they did not hold up to hard use. I like John's list a lot -- I'd add to the "like" list MAVIC components in general -- the 501 hubs are as good as Phils and Campys I've had. I've never owned a bike with a Huret Duopar (touring) or Jubilee (racing) derailleur, but they both enjoy a good reputation. I'd put the garden variety Normandy hubs on the dislike list, along with Lytard pedals -- the bearings seemed to pit fairly quickly in the ones I've used.

   RE:vintage french components posted by Mike Slater on 11/22/2002 at 6:46:33 PM
I am also fond of the Stronglight, TA , and Nervar cranksets. Although it is getting near impossible to find chainrings for the older Nervar that had 122 c-c spacing.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ciocc posted by: Ann on 11/21/2002 at 2:35:20 PM
Does anyone know anything about Ciocc bikes?

I aquired this Ciocc frame/fork, components were already stripped in 1990, I built it up and rode it for several years(loved the way it rode!). Anyway I traded it in for lighter and faster.. Well recently I have aquired this SAME Ciocc back, I will not let it go this time.

Anyway I'm trying to find the age on the frame. I know it was made before 1990. I know it was made after 77/78 due to the worlds sticker. It has gipiemme dropouts. It has Ciocc panagraphed on the fork crowns and top part of rear triangle. It has chromed forks and rear triangle.
It has no columbus sticker on the tubing, allthough when I first had the frame in 90 I was told it was either columbus sl or slx (I can't remember which?). The frame has no other stickers other than Ciocc all over the frame and the above mentioned worlds and made in Italy. The bottom bracket has a club cutout and the lugs are painted, not chromed. The color is light blue.

I'd just like to narrow it down to early, mid, late 80's so I can get the right components as in campy SR or C-Record, Victory stuff.

Thanks for any input at all.

   Victory crankset posted by John E on 11/22/2002 at 11:32:59 PM
The Victory crankset ranks with the 1950s pushrod Gran Sport front derailleur as one of Campag.'s (few) embarrassing moments. That oddball 116mm BCD does not help, either! Use a nice old 144mm BCD Record or even Ofmega crankset, instead. Good luck with the project. Old Italian steel framesets are great!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ciocc posted by Ann on 11/22/2002 at 3:22:42 AM
It will be very difficult to put an exact date of manufacture on this bike without contacting Ciocc directly. You have a very good idea of the time frame (77 - mid 80's). Build it up with a 6 speed NR or 7 speed SR group. Both are lovely. If you want to do fast "club rides" then go with the SR but either one will suit the bike perfectly. Victory cranks are ugly...put them on the winter beater.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ciocc posted by Warren (formerly Ann) on 11/22/2002 at 1:23:35 PM
Posted by Warren I mean...it's my feminine side trying to get out again.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Ciocc posted by Ann on 11/22/2002 at 3:11:51 PM
Thanks Warren!

I agree with the SR/NR, I will probably go with the SR, that stuff is easier to find and I already have a few pieces. I would have liked to get the date within a couple of years to get the right era stuff, but I would have to learn Italian. The Ciocc website consist of a logo and phone numbers to call in Italy.
And.... I think the bike would look best in super record or possibly other Italian components. (just to be different)

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bianchi frameset posted by: Randy on 11/21/2002 at 12:30:00 PM
Hi I have a question I have been around bikes for a few years and worked on them quite a bit I found a very nice Bianchi road frame a while back in Celeste green columbus SL tubing paint and all is excellent for its age, I have a problem though with it nice frame but the headtube seems like it is on the loose side for installing a older Campy NR headset the cups seem to want to go in a bit easy on it and I fear they may be too loose, the frame is so nice I would like to do something for it, the headtube does not appear to have ever been reamed either does anyone have any suggestions on this I thought about going ahead and pressing the headset cups in and putting some loctite around them to make shure they stay in better but this even does not seem like a good repair I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, thanks.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bianchi frameset posted by Steven on 11/21/2002 at 1:55:50 PM
Coke can shims can work wonders. You can also brinel the part of the headset that gets inserted into the frame with a spring-loaded centre-punch.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bianchi frameset posted by Pete on 11/22/2002 at 3:40:19 AM
Unless the cups just fall in, I'd use some blue Loctite.
(I forget the nuumber- 242?)
They're not going to fall out , but you don't want them moving around either.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   GIOS EASYRIDER CHOPPER posted by: Aussie on 11/21/2002 at 8:29:43 AM
I have just picked up a Gios Easyrider chopper. Mine is green and in original condition. I have read an article about the history of Gios briefly explaining the history of this bike, but have a few questions:
What colours did they come in?
How many were made?
Are they rare now? (I have not seen another in Australia)
My seat cover is missing, remains look like it was red. Any idea what the seat covering looked like?
Any info, especially a decent photo or brochure copy would be very much appreciated.
I intend to clean the bike up but noy repaint or re-plate, as it is in pretty good condition except for the seat.
Thanks in advance.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Curious Raleigh posted by: Brian L. on 11/20/2002 at 12:09:12 PM
I just finished putting together a Carleton Raleigh Grand Sport. Abandoned, semi-complete. Outwardly similar to a Super Course, but plain lugs. I've had a number of Raleigh's including a Super Course and Raleigh Racing USA 555. Both of those bikes had good road geometry - the former more slack and the latter more aggressive, but both pretty conventional. This Grand Sport is different. The bottom bracket is quite high, even with 700c substituted for the original 27", and even though the real triangle is longish, the front end is compact with significant toe overlap. What's up with that?

Also, on a totally different tangent, I'm in the market for a good user set of Mavic SSC derailleurs, original issue in clear finish, clamp-on front.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Curious Raleigh posted by John E on 11/20/2002 at 9:49:59 PM
Your Grand Sport sounds like an early 1970s Criterium frame -- hence, the fast steering and the high BB. Around 1975, the Consumer Product Safety Commission banned, or at least strongly discouraged, the sale of bicycles with toe overlap, even though it poses no significant danger for the experienced cyclist, who steers the machine more by leaning than by angling the front wheel.

   :VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Curious Raleigh posted by John E on 11/20/2002 at 9:52:44 PM
Rear triangles tightened in the mid-to-late 1970s, only as chains became increasingly flexible. With an older transmission, a short triangle rendered 3 or 4 of the 10 gears unusable.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Curious Raleigh posted by Brian L. on 11/20/2002 at 11:43:10 PM
It is pleasantly quick handling for a bike of this vintage (a touch on the squirrley side hands-off), but with fenders on I have to pay that much more attention.

Stacy must have been taunted as a kid by the cool kids that had Stingrays when he was riding a department store hand-me-down.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Centurion on eBay was nice. posted by: Todd on 11/20/2002 at 10:57:59 AM
Hello all, Anyone see the great old Centurion bicycle that sold on eBay? eBay #738186454. That bicycle sold in one day. I would have liked to have bid on it, But some guy grabbed with that buy it now. I dont like ebays buy it now, It doesnt give buyers a fair chance. It sold for $150.00 was that a fair price for a nice centurion? Please post replys. Thanks, Todd.H

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Centurion on eBay was nice. posted by Ray on 11/20/2002 at 2:57:42 PM
This Centurion bike is pretty nice looking and probably worth the $150 it went for. I recently found one on the curb and parted it out as the original owner had some real good parts on it, campy and all. This one has the unusual shifters that mount on a braze on above the down tube. The parts look nice but are nothing special. Personally I gave the Centurion frame away because I find it to be nothing special. It is pretty plain and has no real appeal. They do ride well but this one is worth no more than the $150 tag it went for. FYI, I am not a fan of buy it now either but not for the same reason as you. Typically for selling bikes it is like the kiss of death. Look how many buy it now sales never even get a bid because it tips the buyer as to the price the customer ultimatly wants. It does not allow for bidding a bike up to its value. Most people will bid over the BIN price if they see there is interest from other buyers. Few want to lay out the cash up front and it stifels bidding even at a lower price. I only like it where I see a real good bike that I want and the BIN price is very reasonable but that happens very infrequently.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool Beans! posted by: Walter on 11/20/2002 at 2:54:21 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=737258332 is a beautiful Bianchi from some 50 years ago. A true history lesson.

Many pictures and long load time, esp. if you're phonelines are of the same "quality" as mine.

Not me, mine or etc.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool Beans! posted by Steven on 11/20/2002 at 7:35:33 AM
You can't tell it because it is a private auction, but I am presently the highest bidder and my bid of $1500 does not meet the reserve. Expect this bike to go well over $3000.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool Beans! posted by Keith on 11/20/2002 at 4:34:00 PM
Stunning -- a priceless piece of history. As for the price -- think of it -- $3000 would barely buy you a contemporary high-end road bike with new Campy Record. Good luch Steven!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool Beans! posted by David on 11/20/2002 at 6:25:57 PM
Wonder if the Nihonjin will get involved. Remember the $9K PX10?

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool Beans! posted by Steven on 11/21/2002 at 2:04:09 PM
THis bike is nice but I would rate it as exceptional. The restoration is not all that well done: paint and decals are not very good. Others have told me that the brakes are also not correct, and the pedals are period correct but not likely the originals. This should not reach the heights of the PX10, even though a good price is to be expected. There are collectors both here in the US as well as elsewhere that will likely pay top dollar for it.

   $9,000 PX10 posted by Walter on 11/21/2002 at 10:35:03 PM
Did I miss another PX10 auction? I remember 1 breaking the $7K mark awhile back but don't recall seeing a $9K auction. Classic Rendezvous mentions a Confente that went over $8K and stayed under reserve, thats the highest I've seen a roadbike go.

I don't know truly old Bianchis well enough to pick out the things Steven easily sees. Not important as I can't get involved in such an auction anyways. Pretty bike regardless.

A few of us track racer aficianados probably still remember the Watsyn racer that appeared a year ago and went unsold. THAT is, along with a 1966 GTO that I could have gotten for $1200 back in 1983 or so high on my list of "Ones that Got Away."

AGE / VALUE:   Weinmann Semi Automatic Brake posted by: Mike Slater on 11/19/2002 at 2:31:06 PM
I have recently come into possession of a Weinmann semi automatic brake. This is very similar in appearence and design to the Campy Delta brakes. I have no idea why its called "semi automatic", but it appears to be a nicely built brake.
Alas...I have only one of these. So the search is on to find a another.
Do any of you folks have one of these laying around that you would like to part with?? I'm certainly willing to pay a "reasonable" price.

Anyone have a hint as to where I might find one?

FOR SALE:   Gitane Grand Sport posted by: Jim on 11/18/2002 at 5:11:22 PM
Ebay item # 1585567081 , it's mine and yup this is a bit shameles, my apologies. A bit nicer than a typical 70's bike boom product. For anyone from Old Roads, I would include a secon wheelset with large flange Normandie hubs. Please contact me for more pix. Thanks for the indulgence !

AGE / VALUE:   Value of Bianchi Strada LX posted by: Gralyn on 11/18/2002 at 4:11:21 PM
I have a Bianchi Strada LX. Not sure of the year. It's pearl-esence white....or a white that kind of looks like pearl. A CroMo frame. I have aero brakes, the down-tube shifters that click for each gear....7-speed I think. I have 700C X 25mm wheels/tires with presta valve. Shimano bio-pace crank set. I don't know what the bike had originally...but where was the "Strada LX" in the line-up. What would one have sold for say....mid-80's? If anybody know's - please let me know. Thanks

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   team 753 posted by: yannis on 11/18/2002 at 10:16:17 AM
Hello from Athens Greece
I'm about to restore a raleigh team 753.
Can anyone help me with information about where to find a complete set of decals (reynolds 753, T.I. included)?
Thanks a lot

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   team 753 posted by Bob on 12/10/2002 at 3:18:44 AM
Yannis...Did you ever get an answer to your question? I read this site all the time but this is the first time I've actually "participated". I have a mint 1984 Raleigh 753 Team bike. The old style Reynolds 753 decals are no longer available from Reynolds (only the newer type 753 ones are). However, there is still hope! Go to the below listed web site (Lloyds) he has many decals in stock and can even make whatever decal you desire. Hope this helps.