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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   WANTED TO BUY posted by: Kevin K on 1/10/2002 at 6:16:05 PM
Hi. Looking for a nice used pair of Continental 700's. If you have a set laying about and would consider selling them please let me know. Thank you, Kevin

AGE / VALUE:   Shelby Tubing? posted by: sam on 1/10/2002 at 3:59:50 PM
You L/W guys ever hear of Shelby tubing? This may be a long shot,as the adv.I find it on is from a 1914 Master Bicycle.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Shelby Tubing? posted by Keith on 1/10/2002 at 10:10:07 PM
The answer is no, but then I don't believe that there was any kind of significant alloy tubing until Reynolds introduced 531 in 1930. before that time, high end steel was seamless, high carbon stuff. The "butting" process was patented by Alfred Reynolds in 1898, so conceivably your Shelby tubing could have ben butted.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Shelby Tubing? posted by Joel on 1/14/2002 at 10:54:25 PM
Maybe made by Shelby bike co. or in Shelby Ohio ????

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Apollo Prestige XL posted by: Rob on 1/10/2002 at 7:32:18 AM
Does anyone know anything about a bike called an Apollo Prestige XL. Old Apollos are quite common where I live (Vancouver), but all the ones I've ever seen are pretty well "basic iron". This one,(it has the ambiance of an early '80's bike)looked surprisingly interesting except for a few incongruities. The derailleurs were SunTour, rear is ARX; brakes, a nice looing Dia Compe side pull, with attractive 'drilled out' levers; the handlebars, Nitto; crank, an attractive Sugino model. And the bike was surprisingly light. The incongruity was the wheels; very cheap looking 'Made in Canada' steel rims and cheap looking hubs, I didn't bother trying to make out the brand of the hubs.

I couldn't find much on the internet, though there were a lot of references to Apollo bikes in Australia...I don't think the brand is sold anymore in Canada, though 20 to 25 years ago it was certainly common. I think the basic frame was Japanese. Maybe they were assembled in Canada....I can't imagine anyone bothering to import the rims I saw to Japan or the US. (The price is $25 CDN ($16US))

Can anyone give me some insights?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Apollo Prestige XL posted by Wings on 1/10/2002 at 8:24:40 AM
Oh, I wish I was a Granville Island getting something to eat! But then, I never was there in the winter!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Apollo Prestige XL posted by glen on 1/12/2002 at 6:55:32 PM

Insights? Probably not, but I will say that in Calgary, with the exeption of department store bikes, there seems to be more Apollos than any other individual brand. I was under the impression that they were Japanese in origin. I also did a brief search for Apollo information on the 'net but wasn't too successful. The absence of Apollo on Ebay leads me to assume that they weren't imported into the US in anywhere near the numbers of Canada, unless they were sold under a different brand name...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Apollo Prestige XL posted by Warren on 1/13/2002 at 3:31:29 AM
My winter beater Apollo sounds like yours but I have no decalling left on it except the tubing which says KCI Hi Tension Doubled Butted Tubing. Mine had similar components but it had alloy rims. Mine also has Suntour dropouts with chromed forks and stays. They were originally built by the same company that made Centurions and later Ironmans. They were in turn bought out by a US company who's name escapes me. They were for the most part mid grade bikes with a few nice exceptions.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Roller Party posted by: Keith on 1/9/2002 at 3:50:13 PM
Okay, first of all I ride throughout the winter. But, there are times when the roads are just too icy. So, last night, as an alternative to a weekly local night ride, I hosted a roller/wind-trainer party. Big fun! Riding rollers and trainers alone is a drag. Get a few together and put on a TDF video, and have hot chocolate and beer afterwards, and it's actually enjoyable. The racing club I was in as a kid used to have roller races and cyclo-cross in the winter. Last night, I even dusted off my old Peugeot track bike and took it for a spin, wearing my old club colors -- talk about nostalgia! Even non-retro folks locally are beginning to look more at rollers as a way of improving form. So drag out those old Cinelli rollers and have a party!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Roller Party posted by Steven on 1/12/2002 at 5:54:52 AM
Back in the late 70's and early 80's there were a good number of us that rode through the winter (every day) in Ottawa, Canada. Even when the temperature went to -40°. Staying warm is not the problem; the difficulty is staying upright with the snow and ice. We overcame this by using racing tricycles. There is still an active tricycling fraternity in Britain and they are on to a great thing. If you ever get the chance, you should try a three wheel drift around a snow covered down-hill corner. BLISS!!!

MISC:   The Bikes are out there posted by: Gralyn on 1/9/2002 at 12:53:23 PM
Just a comment: I think there are lots of bikes out there - especially from the 70's and 80's - I just have to figure out where to find them. I think I'm not looking in enough places. An entire Spring-Summer-Fall of yard sales only rendered 2 bikes for me. Thrift stores - a few.

   RE:MISC:   Bike greed? posted by Bob on 1/9/2002 at 10:34:11 PM
How many bikes do you want?

There are a relatively small number of really outstanding bikes made -- and they tend to be expensive. People who pay that kind of money for a bike usually know what they have and don't put it out in the yard sale for $25.

I have four lightweights that I ride. One that is being repaired, one that hangs on the wall, and a frame that is "too nice" to throw away. I occasionally see interesting bikes at yard sales and thrift stores, but what is the sense of piling up more bikes in my garage?

I regularly ride and enjoy a Motobecane Grand Record -- early 70s vintage, all Reynolds 531 tubing. What would be the point of getting a PX10 or similar Raleigh? There is the very occasional "deal that is too good to pass up" or the worthwhile bike on its way to the landfill to rescue -- but while we all have our favorites most of the vintage rides one encounters in thrift stores (etc.) are high class mediocre at best.

My recent stop at "All Bikes" north of Phoenix resulted in several hours looking over thousands of bikes with only two bikes that were even remotely interesting. One wonders if that time might not have been better spent on the Moto.

Worse, it is possible that I may have found something exceptional and rare. So now I will take another Saturday to drive up to All Bikes and take another look. And if that works out then I will pay too much money for a bicycle that probably needs a lot of work and expensive parts. And then ... and then when it is finished it can hang on the wall next to my 62 Atala.

What if it doesn't get any better than this?

   RE:RE:MISC:   Bike greed? posted by Skip Echert on 1/10/2002 at 4:23:47 AM
Hello Gralyn -
I too have wondered where the used older road bikes go and how the good ones can be found when someone else wants to get rid of them. I have had some luck at thrift stores, but that must be a weekly or even daily stop for a long time, months or years, to find something moderately worthwhile. (I understand the employees at our local Goodwill have first choice on the items that come in.) I probably visit 30 garage sales (over a period of years)before seening a road bike of any sort. A few months ago I bought two mid-level bikes for $20 each: a 74 Miyata six-ten and a 86 Nishiki Modulus. In Seattle there are fewer classified ads for road bikes than I would expect. Perhaps the bikes are sold to friends. Certainly, if a nice old bike gets to a person who apprecialtes it, it generally is sold or otherwise passed on to others who know its value, taking it off the garage sale/thrift store circuit.

Bob - Bike greed? You are kidding aren't you? (Maybe bike lust? or bike insanity?) I enjoy restoring (or rescuing) old bikes, perhaps doing one or two a year. I certainly would like to do more. Am I greedy? Taking more than my fair share? or more than I need? Is a stamp/coin/doll collector greedy? - perhaps.



   RE:RE:MISC:   Bike greed? posted by Sun on 1/10/2002 at 4:30:28 AM
I would have to disagree just a little with what you have said. You say that most rides from thrift stores are "high class mediocre at best." Here in Hendersonville NC we have a huge retiree segment of our population. They for the most part have bikes that have been well maintained garaged and in outstanding shape. Motobecanes, Ralieghs, Schwins (even Paramounts) have drifted through our local thrift store, because (at least this is my opinion) when they can't ride them anymore they donate them to get the tax write offs on them...in my community you can get outstanding deals in the thrift stores. My town also has two local bikeshops, who are in the business of selling high dollar mediocre rides at best. Face it, Bikes today and I mean Bikes not toys are pricing them selves right out of business. In this town you could take any bike over 10 years old, and I mean any bike at all to our local bike shops and they will tell you "Oh thats an artifact, what you need is this new fullybrullyNASAcarbon bioengineered Bike in the window, and it is such a pretty red isn't it". "Why it is so much nicer then that artifact that you are riding now".

If there is such a thing as bike greed I think it is with the bike shop owners who will try to tell you that your fine vintage well maintained European bike is worthless compared to what they are selling. This happens way to often...and frankly what is being sold today for the most part is not worth what is being charged today. Thats Bike Greed.

As far as how many bikes a person owns that is up to them I happen to own 6. 2 Ralieghs 1 Motobecane 1 Schwin 1 Dahon and 1 Austro Daimler. I am always on the look out for another as long as it is a decent Bike. I have fixed many an old Bike up and sold it for a small profit. Truth be known I have also given away alot of fine old Bikes to friends.

It is not Bike greed when a person collects fine old bikes. It is the result of the epiphany, that comes to one when they see the bike greed going on in the modern bicycle industry, And it is in that modern Bicycle industry that Bike Greed is so alive and well.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Bike greed? posted by Wings on 1/10/2002 at 8:47:05 AM
I found a Schwinn cantilever fram of a Spitfire one day in a thrift store and got it for $4. That ignited the spark of looking for bikes. Fishing! But there is a problem at first of not knowing what to catch! I ended up with a lot of junk real fast.

Then I wised up and became very selective in what I purchase. I also try to "refurbish" 50 bikes a year and give them to a local charity. This keeps me busy buying bikes to refurbish and buying some for parts. And I always keep an eye out for something that I would like. I ride about 9 bikes. It is fun to trade off and each bike has its unique feel and some bikes are better at certain times of the year! That keeps my interest up in riding. I am always working on the ones I ride so some are in a state of being modified and then it is a thrill to ride them again.

I am going to buy a new Diamond Back girls bike for my Grandaughter. I will modify the bike since she is in hill country but she still needs a foot brake (20 inch wheels). She will actually have a foot brake and two hand brakes. Now, I was planning on putting a SA hub in the rear wheel (or Shimano) so she would have 3 gears and a coaster brake.
Today, while cruising the thrift stores, I found a girls 24 inch bike that had a Sachs 3 speed internal hub with a coaster brake. It also had a really great Sachs grip shifter almost the same as on my recumbent (3x7). The bike was $24. I bought it for the Sachs 3 speed and cable assembly and grip shifter. I will install this on her new 20 inch bike! Rather than toss the rest of the bike, I will install another wheel (freewheel), add a shifter, clean up the bike and donate it to a charity. Everybody is a winner this way! I guess that is my way of justifying (to me) my bike purchases -- because they are here for a short time, cleaned up, and off they go. And, I love to work on them -- probably more than riding!!!!

I still have too many bikes! After you get so many -- they attract others. People keep giving me more -- sometimes I just really do not want more! But it all works out!

My bikeology shring told me to express this and maybe I will get over my addiction sooner!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Bike greed? posted by Gralyn on 1/10/2002 at 12:06:08 PM
Yea, I would not say I'm greedy. It's more a hobby. I enjoy finding the bikes, fixing them up, cleaning them up - trying to make them look their best - and ride their best. Then riding them! I love riding them - and as someone stated earlier - each bike has it's own feel. I like riding several. I will ride one...come back in and trade off...then come back in and trade off, etc. Some bikes - as it turns out - I don't like their feel - and those - I will usually try to sell - not really at a profit, though.

And today's bikes!!!I can collect hobby cars at the prices today's bikes are! And it's probably because I'm getting older...but I prefer the older lightweights (60's, 70's, 80's) to what is available today.

Well, if I don't find another bike soon, maybe I will do some additional polishing on my Lotus this weekend.

   Bike greed posted by John E on 1/10/2002 at 3:15:01 PM
"If there is such a thing as bike greed I think it is with the bike shop owners who will try to tell you that your fine vintage well maintained European bike is worthless compared to what they are selling. This happens way to often...and frankly what is being sold today for the most part is not worth what is being charged today. Thats Bike Greed."

My LBS doesn't dare say too much against my Bianchi, because they sold it to the first owner 18 years ago and still proudly feature the marque. However, when I insisted on KoolStop brake pads because Shimano pads in Campy calipers provide inadequate stopping power, the owner did comment, "It's amazing how bad some of the old stuff was."

   RE:Bike greed posted by Walter on 1/10/2002 at 4:30:48 PM
I have 5. My fave is an 80s Basso with S. Record. It doesn't get the miles it deserves b/c after about 3 trips to the truing stand my LBS "politely" told me I'm too heavy for alloy nipples. Rather than rebuild it's my inspiration to cut weight, though I'll never be that light. A Colnago gets most of the miles. I'm fortunate enough to own some bikes that most anyone would agree are pretty nice. Does that make me greedy? I put them together myself, tracking down parts from US, Canada, Ireland and other parts of the world. I'm not depriving my family of essentials or even quality non-esentials (my wife out-earns me anyway). So no I don't think it greed. I do however think it best that a bike be ridden as opposed to sitting on display, unless it's truly unique. To that end I have no plans to add a 6th though I might trade if something caught my eye.

The other subject: Riding both new (the Colnago) and old (the Basso) the 1 area where I find the new stuff to be a true advance as opposed to a convenience is in brakes. I've ridden the old Campy S Records and I swapped them out for some Record dual pivots on my Basso and the difference is night and day. John speaks highly of Kool Stops on older brakes and I don't doubt him for a second. However due to injury on most of my bikes I run only a front brake and I find the dual pivots are great. FWIW an older Shimano Exage with the "Light Action" lever works as well as any brake I've used.

   RE:Bike greed posted by Bob on 1/10/2002 at 4:58:26 PM
OK! Maybe "bike greed" was a bad way to put it. What I meant to say was that I often find myself thinking about buying bikes for no better reason than that I happen to be attracted by them at the moment. Given my small storage space this means that I can easily end up with way too many bikes.

I have a pretty good relationship with my local bike shop owner. He is sometimes more expensive than I can get stuff elsewhere, but we are friends and when he gets something interesting in he sets it aside for me to look at. I bought my Moto Grand Record from him for $100. If that bike had been in a thrift store I it would have probably have had a $50 price tag. On the other hand, when I needed to find an obsolete part this guy spent a couple of hours on the phone to find me a $16 part -- which he sold to me for $16!

There are three values which overlap. I like to ride vintage bikes, I like to collect vintage bikes, I Iike to "fix up" vintage bikes. My top value is riding.

What I want to get away from is the compulsive buying of anything with drop bars.

   Bike Mania posted by Joel on 1/10/2002 at 9:45:02 PM
I have around 40 bikes at the moment. 22 classics in ridable/presentable condition, my MTB and 2 Cannondale road bikes, and the rest unrestored projects, salvaged parts, or junk.

The local thrift stores, flea markets, yard sales have yielded very little for me. Advertising has brought lots of calls, added many miles to my odometer, and located interesting bikes at a rate of about 1:1000 calls. Bike shops have been helpful on ocasion.

   RE:MISC:   The Bikes are out there posted by Keith on 1/10/2002 at 10:18:35 PM
They are out there -- it just takes time and some luck. You simply have to ask yourself -- what is my time worth and how much do I want to find something great for next to nothing. I have found that older, established neighborhoods are the best for garage saling. People retiring and heading for Florida, finally selling their kids' bikes at the garage sale. Still, I've never come up with anything top-end this way, but lots of rideable second-tier stuff and great parts. The best stuff and greatest bargains I've found are from cyclists I know who simply don't value their older equipment. I know one who threw away his Campy NR stuff. I have never had any luck at local thrift stores.

   RE:RE:MISC:   The Bikes are out there posted by Sun on 1/10/2002 at 10:41:49 PM
Todays Grab from the Salvation Army Thrift Store. An early 90 something Panasonic AL 9000. Not a scratch on it, decent components probably was purchased with good intention and riden less then a hundred miles and hung in the garage until the day it was donated. 12 bucks.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   The Bikes are out there posted by Jake on 1/10/2002 at 11:13:43 PM
Wow this message thread is getting longer and longer.

About Bike Greed. Face it. We live in a Capitalist society that lives off buying things whether it's old or new.

To me collecting things(vintage bicycles) is just another way to deal with life. Usually the people who are totally engrossed with collecting usually have some sort of void in their lives that they need to fill with material things like bicycles.

Just I don't get enough sex and that is why I collect. It's better alternative then going out and finding an unused airplane and crashing it into a buiding like that messed up teenager did.

   No Sex : More Bikes posted by Jake on 1/10/2002 at 11:14:15 PM
Wow this message thread is getting longer and longer.

About Bike Greed. Face it. We live in a Capitalist society that lives off buying things whether it's old or new.

To me collecting things(vintage bicycles) is just another way to deal with life. Usually the people who are totally engrossed with collecting usually have some sort of void in their lives that they need to fill with material things like bicycles.

Just I don't get enough sex and that is why I collect. It's better alternative then going out and finding an unused airplane and crashing it into a buiding like that messed up teenager did.

   RE:No Sex : More Bikes posted by Wings on 1/12/2002 at 6:27:53 AM
I think finding bikes is one of my favorite things to do.
Some people go window shopping or fishing. I think part of it is just being outdoors enjoying the day with an eye open for anything with spokes. The bonus is when you find something and that goes with an appreciation for what has been discarded. Sometimes I just stand in awe and look at some of the bikes -- but do not by any. It amazes me how little they cost now when they were so expensive then!

I remember the fad of a WHIT TEN SPEED a long time ago. They were hot to so many people. Now they are, in most cases, not so hot and not that attractive. So that side of the search is also seen.

Since Sex was brought up: Many times I walk the Manhattan Beach (CA) area with a bunch of long time buddies. I notice that we both look at the bikes that go by. They look at the gals on the bike while I am straining to see identifying marks to tell me what bike it is!

From this I know that bikes satisfy and fulfill me and I have no need to look at some gal pedalling by! My buddies evidently lack fulfillment and are desperately seeking it!
Another one of the hidden treasures of searching for bike treasure!

   RE:RE:No Sex : More Bikes posted by Wings on 1/12/2002 at 6:31:30 AM

   RE:RE:RE:No Sex : More Bikes posted by Ian on 1/12/2002 at 8:56:41 PM
Hi, Just to start a new thread could somebody please give lessons on how to combine the two (sex and cycling) then life really would be perfect! I have never been able to figure out how to keep the bike upright on the bed!! But enough of this nonsense. Apart from the joy of saving a classic from the people who don't appreciate them or from the scrapheap it is surprising how having something that is nice but that you don't really want to keep helps you to get what you do want. I have often found that collectors who have a bike that is definitely not for sale are often much more amendable when a trade is offered.So start collecting, you will find that your tastes will become more refined as you go along and you will be able to let go of some of them later. Just accept that it is a rule of collecting anything that the collection increases at a rate 10% faster than the storage space - as soon as you extend the shed to take 8 more bikes you will find 10 that just can't be passed up. I have 22 at present and the greatest pleasure comes from the variety, everything from an 1885 hard tyre to a delivery bike, so I can ride whatever the mood and the occaision dictates. Enjoy yourself and accept that what pleases you this week may not satisfy you next month. Cheers, Ian.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:No Sex : More Bikes posted by Gralyn on 1/13/2002 at 4:03:39 AM
Oh, one thing I have noticed.....some bikes...one's I can't really decide on....maybe I think they are a little more than I want to pay....I pass them up...but when I go back later....they are gone. So somebody is buying them. There was a Motobecane I passed-up. It was most likely lower-end...and it needed a lot of work....and it had a lot of rust. It was $20. For the amount of work it would have taken - I just wouldn't buy it. But when I came back a couple of days later....it was gone. There was an old Raleigh...low-end....in really bad shape....it was $40....it just wouldn't be worth it to me....but somebody bought it. And it goes on and on.....

   RE:RE:RE:RE:No Sex : More Bikes posted by gmarten@hotmail.com on 1/13/2002 at 6:39:33 PM
Conjures up all kinds of images here... a whole new spin on "tandems". Lessee... twin, kneeling, tadpole trike. Great low speed stability, though a bit twichy, interesting stoker participation but adequate guards must be in place on rear wheel to prevent personal injury. LOL

MISC:   1020 posted by: Sun on 1/9/2002 at 11:50:23 AM
ok It is early in the year but I am sure this will get nominated as the stupidest question of the year. But That me...stupid. My question is this. I have a very nice 70 something motobecane (I think it is a 70's). Where the decal for reynolds steel usually is it has a decal that says "1020" what is 1020 and is this something Martha Stewart would call "a good thing"

   Martha's not smiling posted by Walter on 1/9/2002 at 12:49:28 PM
1020 is (was) the hi-carbon steel Moto used on their lower line bike. A Moto I owned from the late 70s called "Nomade" was made of this. Beautiful blue paint job, but a heavy frame. Not one of Martha's "Good Things" though not really a "Bad Thing" either. Sort of a "Common Thing" from the bike boom days. When Moto used higher quality cro-moly steel it was usually Vitus or Columbus and sometimes Reynolds.

AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn "suburban" c. "positron" trans posted by: Jonathan on 1/9/2002 at 7:51:52 AM
Have a pair of Scwinn "suburbans" that were a matched pair (his/hers). The standard frame has the Shimano "positron" transmission, which is new to me. The novelty is that it can shift gears while coasting. The constant chain tension makes for pretty smooth shifting.
The bike has the original "owner's booklet" with a $169.00 price stamp. Where were the "suburbans" placed in the hierarchy? It's getting tougher to get good cheap bikes at the thrift stores. The "collectors" swoop through and snag all the Schwinns and anything English, while the yard is filling up with muffies and kiddie bikes that were junk when new. The pair that I bought are almost new. I got lucky, as the bikes had just come in and were put out while I was looking at the paltry assortment "scrappers".
I had to give $85 for the pair! They are practically mint. If these bikes are supposed to be so ubiquitous as to be hardly worth a sixpack, how come they are going for such high prices at the stores? They wanted $100 for the pair! I haven't sen that many pre-1980 Schwinns around, come to think of it. The braze (weld?) on the headtube is beautiful. I can appreciate it now, but back in 1978 these bikes msut have had little success against
the European "lightweights". It is fun to work on these heavy bikes with beefed frames and simple components.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn posted by Walter on 1/9/2002 at 1:07:46 PM
You've got Positron and Shimano's freewheeling chainwheels. Ooh boy, collectability plus! Seriously, they are, as you point out, solid dependable bikes that can be had for prices that can't be matched nowadays. If you ride them 85$ is more than a deal for 2 solid bikes.

Positron was Shimano's first attempt at index shifting and was marginally successful at best. The main reason is that Shimano introduced it on dep't store bikes and had to keep it cheap. Some few Schwinn models are, I'm pretty sure, the highest line bikes Positron ever appeared on. In the mid-80s when Shimano tried again they introduced SIS on the DuraAce line and the rest is history. The freewheeling chainwheels was a similar experiment. I'm trying to remember if they used that on 3 piece cranks? I want to say yes but I'm not sure. Schwinn had that feature on a # of 5 and 10 speeds. Never caught on.

I remember picking up a Suburban for my father in the mid-80s. Green bike, 5 speed derailleur equipped with "North Bend" style bars like you'd find on many English 3 speeds. Solid bike. Since it wasn't really aimed at the Varsity/Continental consumer I'm not sure where it fit in the line-up. Pricewise it was lower than the Conti and probably roughly equivalent to a Varsity.

Only drawbacks I see is when that Positron derailleur goes. Easy enough to replace with a regular derailleur. Crankset should be long-term reliable.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn posted by Bryant on 1/9/2002 at 1:08:21 PM
Hey, Great find. I've been having success finding pre-80 bikes in my local thrift shop. I really enjoy working on the Schwinns. They are built like tanks, but they weigh about as much. For your hierarchy question, the best place to look is in the Schwinn Light weight Data Book at http://www.geocities.com/sldatabook/cover.html. It will give you all the info you need on all of Schwinn's Lightweights. Good Luck and happy riding!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn posted by Fred on 1/10/2002 at 1:58:32 AM
I have 3 World Tourists and one Suburban with the Positron shifter set-up and the free wheeling crank. All of them shift satisfactorily and are a joy to ride,(on the flat). Suburbans are heavy and look it but no heavier than the more svelt looking Raleigh Sports. I give you joy of finding your pair. A little Patrick O'brian there.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn posted by Drew on 1/10/2002 at 12:48:12 PM
I myself have a '78 Suburban, in frosty blue, near mint condition... I lucked out... $25 at a flea market, put a new old stock generater light set up on it, what a great bike. You can determine the bike's birthday from # on the Schwinn headbadge, mine reads 3328 - which means 332nd day of 1978. A made in USA classic, only 25 years ago some 10 million bikes a year were made in the US....now only limited number of expensive models are produced!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1978 Schwinn posted by Jonathan on 1/14/2002 at 9:32:09 AM
Thanks guys for the thumbs up on the suburbans. That Schwinn website has a lot of useful info, too.
The men's frame needed air in the tires and oil for the chain and derailers. It glides along without any fuss on my flat commute. The roadster handlebars are real solid. I still can't get over the haevy-duty cast steal stem. No flexing around there.
The Varsity that I have (also 1977) has a solid drop forged fork!! The Subs have tubular forks which are heavy, but NOTHING like the Varsity. As for ride; the Suburban is better than the Varsity, although the Varsity is capable of climbing hills (heaven forbid) better. The drop bars, hard "leather" seat and basic geometry of the rear triangle seem to make that possible.
The repro-bikes hardly compare to the quality of these machines. I doubt that bikes of this quality will ever be made again. The "Schwinn bells" are gigantic steel units that have the Schwinn badge centered on the top ringer plate. Funky as heck. The generators (Union) work great, too. The men's frame is "burgundy" while the lady's is a dark green. Up until now, I've been focused on Raleighs in my lightweight
collection, but I am starting to appreciate Schwinns more and more. The paint jobs are fantastic, along with the chromium plating over what appears to be nickel/copper primer coating. How/why would they put so much into a bike that was geared for the masses?

AGE / VALUE:   Bates Professional Specification posted by: Christopher on 1/8/2002 at 10:57:01 PM
Bates Professional Specification:

Frame: Reynolds 531 butted tubing in Nervex Professional lugs,22 1/2 in with 72 degree head and seat angles and 22 1/2 in. top tube Low temperature brazed construction with braze- on brake cable eyes offset under top tube,double gear lever bosses, tunnel on bottom bracket, and chainstay cable stop. Standard sizes in 1/2 in.steps from 21 1/2 in. to 24 in. from stock, other sizes to order.

Forks: Oval to round section, 2 in. rake, cast crown

Wheels: 27in. by 1 1 /4 in. Dunlop high- pressure rims on Exceltoo small- flange hubs. Dunlop Road Racing tires and tubes.

Handlebars: 15 in. wide Maes alloy on 3 1/2 in. Pivo 85 alloy stem.

Brakes:Weinmann Vainqueur 999 center-pull with quick release attachments on levers. Translucent rubber lever hoods.

Chainset: Williams C34 double, with 46/49T rings and 6 1/2 in. cranks

Chain: 3/32 Sedis

Gear: Simplex Perstige front and rear changers, with down tube controls.

Block: Simplex, 14-16-18-20-23.

Pedals: Constrictor Viper, double sided.

Saddle: Lycette L15N, with alloy seat pin.

Mudguards: Blumels Club Special, with reflector.

Pump: 18 in,Blumels

Finish: Flamboyant blue with silver lustre head and diamond seat panel. Lined lugs. Wide range of alternative finishes available.

Price: (pounds sterling) 34 9s.'6d. including purchase tax. Frame only (pounds sterling) 16 16s

Weight: 27 lbs.

E.G. Bates, 589/591 Barking Road,
Plaistow, London, E. 13.
Source: CYCLING, January 15, 1964

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bates Professional Specification posted by Christopher on 1/8/2002 at 11:19:45 PM
Chainset: Williams C34 double, with 46/49T rings and 6 3/4 in. cranks.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bates Professional Specification posted by Christopher on 1/9/2002 at 12:39:47 AM
Two sites that mention E.G. Bates are: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ British/ British.htm
and of course, http://www.SheldonBrown.com/bates.html

   gear ratios posted by John E on 1/10/2002 at 3:20:18 PM
Now there's a company that knows how to specify gear ratios! I happily used a near-identical half-step (50-47, same block) on the Nishiki for several, sometimes substituting a 42T inner ring to convert it quickly into a wider 1.5-step pattern for hill work.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Capavanti posted by: Fred on 1/8/2002 at 8:34:23 PM
Does anyone know anything about a bike named, "Capavanti",(sp?). A winter neighbor has offered me the bike. Is it an obscure cheapo or something I should pursue? I can't see the bike since it is in the far North of Canada and I am in Florida.

AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot PX-10 posted by: David on 1/8/2002 at 6:07:35 PM
I have an early 70s PX-10, with the Simplex Prestige/Stronglite group, some mods, but the frameset is intact and in excellent condition, about a 27" bike (I'm 6'3") This is the model that won the Worlds, it has that decal, it's a beautiful white bike with crome forkends and dropouts - original handlebars, I have the original break levers, different wheels, freewheel and pedals. Otherwise, this is one beautiful bicycle that I would love to see go to someone who's interested in riding it in events and keeping it in it's current condition - maybe bringing it back to all original configuration. Let's talk - I paid 750.00 in the mid 80's, mainly for the beautiful frameset with the original French decals, even the 531 decal is in French.

MISC:   Vintage? posted by: Jeff on 1/8/2002 at 3:34:36 PM
I see the word "vintage" used alot. In wines it mearly means the year the wine was made. I need a clarifcation on this as I hate being vintage myself. I only want to be "hep", oops am I vintage?

   RE:MISC: Vintage? posted by Warren on 1/8/2002 at 6:08:03 PM
It usually means "older" within the context of the list. Some lists use "classic" to define themselves and use a specific time frame, ie: 1950-1980. This list is less formal although bikes made as late as the eighties don't generate much enthusiasm. I perceive it as meaning older, collectible and usually of better quality. You can refer to bikes as being "60's" vintage but more often than not bikes are described as "circa" 1965 etc, (when the exact year is not known). 1997 produced some decent "vintage" wines, I'm not sure the same can be said for bikes...at least not yet.

   Vintage Bicycle Association posted by John E on 1/8/2002 at 8:57:35 PM
For what it's worth, Jim Cunningham's Vintage Bicycle Assn. classifies pre-1984, essentially friction-shifting, road bikes as "vintage." Now that his 1976 Masi is 25 years old, perhaps it qualifies as a "classic."

I think the term "vintage" does get overworked. I consider my 1960 Capo to be a classic, because it is 40 years old, rare, and beautifully made. My 1988 Schwinn KOM-10 is too new to be considered a classic. My 1980 Peugeot PKN-10 will have to qualify on age alone; the paint's pretty rough, and the workmanship is poor, with visible seams on the fork blades, visible brazing gaps at the rear dropouts, and crooked decal placement.

   RE:MISC:   Vintage? posted by Jeff on 1/9/2002 at 2:15:42 AM
I posted that sort of tounge-in-cheek. My Harry Quinn is a 1977 model, vintage to some, nostalgic to others, rare and classic to still others. I have been out of cycling long enough to find to my surprise Campagnolo quit making the Super Record line in 1987. (pretty bad huh?) My foolishness never spread to selling my Quinn though, and if the bug gets to me, I can still ride it and wax nostalgic to that day in 1980 when I took a fourth place in a local race. Like an older man recalling the virtues of a particular make of car, I will always have a part of my past, purchased by mowing lawns. Happy New Year all, and here's to a few of the old ones too.

   RE:MISC:   Vintage? posted by Keith on 1/9/2002 at 3:40:44 PM
Tongue in cheek or not -- classic v. vintage may be a nice way to politely distinguish between the real keepers and the lower class of rider bikes. I agree with John that classic connotes something better than just old -- something that would have been sought after or impressive to knowledgable riders at the time it was made. Hence, Masi, Cinelli, De Rosa, Schwinn Paramount, and perhaps even the Peugeot PX-10, etc. are classics. Common elements of classics would be the brand of an individual frame builder (early Masi or Colnago), a small shop, or at least the top end model of a major name. And since classic equates with quality, a select few may be deemed contemporary classics, such as Richard Sachs or Rivendell. Other factors would include whether the model was used by a significant rider in the European peloton, thereby adding historic significance. A classic would have top-end components, although not necessarily just Campy. The more common, garden variety mid- to lower-end friction shift bikes from the 70s and 80s, Fujis, Panasonics, Schwinn World Sports, Raleigh Record, Peugeot UO-8, etc., are vintage, but worth far less, and IMHO ought not be considered collectable. Rather, such vintage bikes are fun to work on, and provide cheap, reliable transportation -- so they have great intrinsic value. But I think the distinction is significant, because personally I would not spend time and money to do an authentic repaint and get new decals, or hunt down "correct" vintage parts for, anything other than a real classic. At some point, of course, things become valuable merely because they're old, so these comments are really restricted to bikes from the 70 to mid-80s. So, what might have been a mere vintage British 1950s club bike 10-15 years ago may be worth more now because it has an old helicoil Simplex derailluer and a few Japanese collectors are willing to pay big bucks for them on eBay. Does that make is a classic?

AGE / VALUE:   1974-1975 SCHWINN SPRINT posted by: Kevin K on 1/8/2002 at 1:15:40 PM
Hi. I would like to here from those of you that own, or have owned 1974-75 Sprints. I would also like to see pics. of an Opaque Red bike if possible. Thanks, Kevin

MISC:   Just curious about ZebraKenko posted by: Wings on 1/8/2002 at 7:37:21 AM
I just cleaned and fixed a bike that looks like it was made in the Japan era. The head badge says: GOLDENSPORT, Zebrakenko. It has T-4500 double butted tubes which I suspect is Hi ten Steel. Usual Suntour components.

This is a new brand for me. I am just curious about what you guys know about this bike?

   RE:MISC:   Just curious about ZebraKenko posted by Jeff on 1/8/2002 at 3:25:23 PM
Im owned a Zebrakenko in 1983, they were a low to mid end Japanese frame. Components varied from Low end Suntour, to high end Shimano Dura-Ace. Mine was low end with Suntour. Good stout frame. Mine was $169 fully equipped, and was my first real ten speed.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Just curious about ZebraKenko posted by Wings on 1/9/2002 at 9:10:14 AM
Jeff -- Thanks for the post. It was a nice looking bike with a nice feel to the frame!

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   italvega posted by: Lee on 1/8/2002 at 3:45:58 AM
I wanted to thank everyone for the information on the Italvega bike. For those that wanted to know the other parts it is mostly Campy equiped. With your comments I can enjoy it without worrying about riding a high value bike. I was worried the Super Champion rims may be of a value that I could not enjoy the bike for fear I would damage them. My first ride was with the riverside, ca bike club last Saturday. They all enjoyed the bike since most of them had the big bucks modern stuff. The bike was given to me. I now plan to enjoy it as an almost vintage racing bike....your comments were helpful...thanks again...Lee

   italvega posted by John E on 1/8/2002 at 2:35:41 PM
Congratulations on obtaining a great bike at a reasonable price, Lee. It is always fun to show for a group ride on an old classic. With KoolStop brake pads, modern tyres, and a 7-speed freewheel and/or triple chainring, my old bikes serve me as well as any new machine would.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   bottom bracket posted by: glenn on 1/8/2002 at 1:39:31 AM
Hi My passion is old 531 framesets. My current project is an early 80's peugeot 531 pulled from an alley. Frame is straight and true and has been totally redone and repainted. final parts are bottom bracket and cranks. I have a set of NOS cranks that are marked Peugeot but I suspect Stronglight. The arms look like campy, not a Stonglight model 49 or 93, but the large chainring is BUILT-IN with the right crank arm. Anyone know anything about these cranks, they are light and alloy and nice looking. I need to know the bottom bracket spec's for this frame and crank. When I was into bikes as a kid cranks came with a sheet. I suspect 68mm, with a 113-115mm spindle. English treads. Anyone know for sure? thanks

   bottom bracket posted by John E on 1/8/2002 at 2:42:35 AM
1) My 1980 Peugeot PKN-10 (Reynolds 531 main triangle) has a Swiss-standard BB, which has the same width (68mm), diameter (35mm=1.375"), and turning directions (LH-threaded fixed cup) as English, but mm thread instead of 24 TPI. You may not want to try this at home, but since Swiss BB fixed cups are VERY hard to find (left cup is the same as French), I forced an English-threaded fixed cup into my BB shell. I have used it this way for several years without any problems, but I don't dare remove the fixed cup when I repack the BB. (In fact, it gives me less trouble than the French-threaded fixed cup on my 1974 UO-8, with its self-loosening RH thread.)
2) The Stronglight/Peugeot cranks with the large chainring permanently attached to the right crank are decent, but they are a low-to-midgrade model, somewhat incongruous with a 531 frame. A set came on my early 1980s Carbolite $3 garage sale find. My PKN-10 came with B-9s with factory-drilled rings.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   bottom bracket posted by Keith on 1/8/2002 at 3:18:51 AM
Low-end alloy chainrings are often stamped instead of forged, are therefore soft and wear out fairly quickly. Adding to this is that the chainrings on these kinds of cranks can be fairly thin. I found the set John describes on a carbolite I got out of the trash. You might want to hold out for something nicer. Just tonight I saw a set of NOS Suntour Superbe Pro cranks and rings at the LBS for less than $100.

   Stronglight posted by John E on 1/8/2002 at 2:45:02 PM
Maybe Glen wants my high-end used 1980 Stronglight crankset -- 170mm, English thread, factory-drilled 52-42 rings, plus an older undrilled 44T ring. (I bought the latter because 52-44 gives evenly-spaced ratios with a 2-tooth progression in back.)