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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

AGE / VALUE:   Peugot catalogs! posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/17/2002 at 1:34:29 AM
E- mail me for a copy of the old Peugot catalogs. I hit a casche of them and now I can understand what you guys are talking about when I see Peugot discussed. late 70's 1980's in there. Malliard booklet shows helocomatic hub and sprockets.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugot catalogs! posted by Brian L. on 1/17/2002 at 4:24:27 PM
CR- I would love a catalog! Can't get your email address to work. My mailing address is: 1610 N. 52nd Street, Seattle, WA 98103. Cost?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugot catalogs! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/18/2002 at 1:03:03 AM
Free! Do you know of a site that I can send these to so it can be scanned and displayed for folks like yourself?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugot catalogs! posted by Skip Echert on 1/18/2002 at 6:30:11 AM
Hello Christopher Robin -
David Goerndt has the Peugeot PX-10 database
his address: davidg@iag.net You may have catalogs he does not have.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugot catalogs! posted by Eric Elman on 1/19/2002 at 12:10:32 AM
Hello CR. Would would also love to have copies. I am a bit of a Peugeot nut owning a 1969 PX10E, 1972 PX10E, 1977 PX10LE and a childs size (24" wheels) racer like a UO-8. My address is: Eric Elman, 105 Bobolink Lane, Somers, CT 06071. Thanks in advance, Eric

AGE / VALUE:   Gnutti posted by: Oscar on 1/16/2002 at 3:23:07 AM
Does anyone know if Gnutti three pin cottered cranks ever came with less than 52 teeth on the outside ring? I'm trying to make a track bike out of an old wreck, and would like to use a cottered crank on an Italian bike. 48 teeth or less would be nice. Any ideas, or old (cheap any-condition) spares?

   3-pin cranks and chainrings posted by John E on 1/16/2002 at 8:40:11 PM
Since the standard European 3-pin BCD was ubiquitous for many years, your Gnutti spider is compatible with rings from numerous manufacturers, including Nervar, Huret, Stronglight, and TA (including the 3-pin aluminum "Professional" model). I have not seen any 48s lately, but 49-46 was a common half-step double.

AGE / VALUE:   Bianchi Vittorio? posted by: John on 1/16/2002 at 1:41:03 AM
I'm building up a Bianchi and trying to figure the age and verify the model. It's a nice road frame, purple, Bianci-Columbus tubing lables (in Celest!). The name on the top tube is rubbed off, but may be Vittorio. Frame/Fork features: Campy fork ends-newer style, "B" in a circle on fork crown-toptube lugs-seat stay caps, two slots cut out of BB shell, braze-ons, chrome fork-ends, fork-crown sides and right chain stay, shift cable routing under the BB shell.

Building it with 1978 vintage Campy (Gran Sport, NR, Tipo, etc.). Anyone know how to identify and date the frame and fork?

John in colder-than-normal California

      Bianchi Vittorio? posted by John E on 1/16/2002 at 8:45:34 PM
Nice frameset! My ca. 1982 Bianchi takes a clamp-on front derailleur; if yours has a brazed-on mount, it's newer. Also, I think the chrome right chainstay did not become popular on high-end bikes until the mid-1980s. Also, the "photo-negative" paint scheme, with celeste decals against a dark blue background, strikes me as a more recent Bianchi fashion. The frame is newer than the parts, but so what?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bianchi Vittorio? posted by John S on 1/17/2002 at 1:58:57 AM
Hey John E, thanks for the info, please help more, I think my description was a bit off.
The front derailleur is clamp-on. I think the name is Vittoria, not Vittorio (I can only make out the "oria". The celest decals are only the Columbus tubing transfers, the other decals are silver.

Anyway, I was hoping to do a period-correct build and my detailed side wanted it to be fairly precise. I think I'll have to settle for close. It'll look unique (good or bad in eyes of beholder) with white tape, straps, suede saddle, purple AME brake hoods and a lo-flange tipo wheelset with newish blue-anodized Mavic rims. Anticipating it'll ride nicely too.

Does this help you narrow to a more precise date of make? I'm thinking 79-83 timeframe.

   is this any help? posted by John E on 1/17/2002 at 4:23:57 PM
Hi John -- Compare your graphics and chrome with these (1981) -- note the chrome right chainstay:

   RE:is this any help? posted by John S on 1/18/2002 at 9:15:59 PM
John E. Your link helped. By the way, I read this discussion regularly and your contributions are always most helpful.

This frame had very similar detailing to mine, graphics are slightly different and the chain-stay cap engraving on mine has a "B" in a circle. Otherwise, same fork-crown - even painting pattern, lugs same or very similar, etc. Judging by this, the age is within a year or two of 1981.

It's nearly complete not and looks very nice. Ready for the next projects, an old Olmo and Bridgestone Mile113.

AGE / VALUE:   Eaton posted by: Gralyn on 1/15/2002 at 5:33:11 PM
I got an Eaton. It doesn't look that great of a bike. I don't think the frame is a lightweight alloy. The rims are Rigida...I think that's how it's spelled. The Deurailler is Shimano, the brakes dia-compe...maybe...I don't remember, the saddle looks like crap...kinda like a department store saddle. It's a 10 speed. It has Eaton decals instead of head badge, I think it is RoadKing. But I liked the bend of the handlebars. They were different from most of my other bikes. I thought they would go well on my old Hercules track-style bike. Should I use it for parts? I'm thinking so. Any comments?

   part it out posted by John E on 1/15/2002 at 9:01:13 PM
Rigida alloy rims aren't bad, and their steel rims were standard on the Peugeot UO-8 and its various immitators. If the frame is basic carbon steel, either keep the bike as a commuter/beater or use the parts.

WANTED:   Italian bb posted by: Keith on 1/14/2002 at 9:20:32 PM
Looking for Italian thread bb for Bottechia to fit '74 Campy NR cranks. Otherwise may use new Campy SC-S 115.5 bb (about $21) and use a spacer to move the axle toward the drive side.

   RE:WANTED:   Italian bb posted by Dbean on 1/15/2002 at 2:39:41 PM
I have one, Email me.

MISC:   Grab it and growl posted by: TF on 1/14/2002 at 5:23:02 PM

   RE:MISC:   Grab it and growl posted by Kevin K on 1/14/2002 at 7:44:57 PM
COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DROOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Grab it and growl posted by Joel on 1/14/2002 at 10:47:05 PM
Cool. Added to my info archive. Thanks for the tip. Grrrrr

   Amazing Speed! posted by Oscar on 1/16/2002 at 2:45:46 AM
Check out the ashtabula crank on the Superior!

   RE:Amazing Speed! posted by Eric Amlie on 1/16/2002 at 5:38:52 PM
I've got one of those. Found it on this site a few months ago. Same crank & triple chainset as on the Super Continental (I've got one of those also) and the next years Sierra (got one of those too).

WANTED:   Can you sell me a sprocket? posted by: Tom Findley on 1/14/2002 at 2:46:07 PM
With the help of 2 people reading this forum, I was able to get 2 shifters for the 5-speed Corvette. Thank you, Tom and Eric.

After putting the Corvette together, I noticed that 2 teeth on the front sprocket were chipped. Here is a pic of the sprocket:


When riding the bike, I found that the chain will come off the sprocket when pedaling backwards in 5th gear. It comes off when trying to be caught by the 2 short teeth, which don't catch it.

I got a new sprocket, but found that the teeth are too wide to fit in the chain. The current sprocket will fit the chain for 1 and 3-speed bikes, but not the 5-speed chain.

This sprocket was used on some models of Schwinn 5-speeds: Breeze, Varsity, and Collegiate. If you have a rider with this sprocket, I will glady buy it for $25.

   RE:WANTED:   Can you sell me a sprocket? posted by Mike (the Bike Dork) on 1/16/2002 at 2:48:20 AM
I got one from Baldy Jeff in beautiful condition. I don't think sprokets are dated, so anything's correct.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Your thoughts posted by: Walter on 1/13/2002 at 1:25:02 PM
eBay Item # 1060343897. Obviously not a real high-line bike but when I see it NOS in its box and starting at 1$ it does get my attention. I don't recall this brand but it looks like any one of dozens of 1970s lower-priced 10 speeds I saw during my youth. Some of the components are a bit esoteric; Gnutti and Altenburger are not seen every day.

Was this a dep't store offering or something you might have seen in a LBS? Maybe for someone who wanted a Euro "10 speed" but didn't want to spend Raleigh, Peugeot, Motobecane, etc. money?

   RE:My thoughts posted by Walter on 1/15/2002 at 1:40:09 AM
If I can get it for <50$ I'm going to try. I have no need for it but it'll make a nice gift for my father in law. I think he might enjoy riding if he gave it a try. Worse comes to worse since he works for a church he could find it a nice home and I'll take a charitable donation. It'll be fun to build it up.

   My thoughts posted by John E on 1/13/2002 at 3:01:35 PM
One step up from a Peugeot UO-8, by virtue of the aluminum rims. A far better machine than any of today's $100-300 new offerings. I suspect most of the parts are French-standard, including, if one is very unlucky, the freewheel, pedals, and BB.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Apollo Prestige XL - Update posted by: Rob on 1/13/2002 at 6:35:20 AM
Just a short update to my post of Jan 10--I did buy the Apollo...couldn't resist the $25 CDN ($16US) price. A closer inspection showed it was even better than I expected. Discretely written in small script on the left chainstay are the words "By Kuwahara". So it appears the bike is a slightly above average Japanese make, branded, I guess, Apollo for the CDN market. Newer Kuwahara mtn bikes and hybrids, a reasonable make, are common in Canada, at least my part (West Coast). As to the rims, I solved that mystery...only the front rim is a cheap generic...it appears to have been a replacement. The rear rim, after closer inspection, is a not-so-bad steel rim made by Araya. The front hub is a low end Shimano and the rear Sunshine, which I guess, is a low end Japanese hub.

All said it's not the Hope diamond, but a decent, slightly above average bike...and I guess it shows it's good to trust one's instincts in these things.

And I'm on to my next adventure...just today, I picked a Kalkhoff, a German-made touring bike. It's in great shape...only cost $67 CDN ($40+US)...and I don't know a thing about it...:) ...Better save this for a later post.

AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Super Deluxe posted by: desmo on 1/13/2002 at 6:31:03 AM

Cool old bike!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Peugeot Super Deluxe posted by Oscar on 1/14/2002 at 6:12:06 AM
In 7 bids it goes from $9.99 to $1,000. Reserve not met yet.

    Peugeot Super Deluxe posted by John E on 1/14/2002 at 2:26:33 PM
Thanks for posting. Tres magnifique!

By the way, the seller states that the Stronglight aluminum cranks were introduced in 1957, Campy record in 1958, which sounds about right. Does anyone know when the Nervar Star crankset came out?

AGE / VALUE:   Denult posted by: Gralyn on 1/12/2002 at 7:49:25 PM
Does anyone know anything about "Denult"? I think that is correct. I saw one in an antique store. It was in really good shape. It was your classic English lightweight! It had the 3-speed hub, upright touring handlebars, fenders, chain guard, cottered cranks, "made in England" etc. etc. It looked like all it needed was just a little cleaning to make it look really sharp. The price tag was $97. From what I could tell - it seemed to be worth that. Anyone have any experience with Denult?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Denult posted by Keith on 1/13/2002 at 12:06:05 AM
You can find British 3-speeds for $10-20 at garage sales, if you're willing to spend the time. Some shops sell on the west coast them for about $125. $97 is not out of the question, but for that it ought to be pre-1970, complete, and clean. The Sturmey hub should have the month and date of manufacture, which will date your bike, assuming the hub is original. Sheldon Brown has extensive material on Brit 3-speeds at his site -- www.sheldonbrown.com

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Denult posted by Keith on 1/13/2002 at 12:09:03 AM
It's likely a "Dunelt". The Dunelt slogan was "Ride Awheel on Shefield Steel" on the top tube.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Denult posted by Gralyn on 1/13/2002 at 3:52:14 AM
It probably was Dunelt. I will stop back by next week and see if it's still there. Then if it is - I will try to date it. If it is pre-1960 - then I may go for it. But here, NC, I never see any old English lightweights.

MISC:   re Cinelli stem on eBay posted by: wayne davidson on 1/12/2002 at 10:32:47 AM
Can anyone confirm what he says about this stem being RARE, its a XR model....regards wayne...


   RE:MISC:   re Cinelli stem on eBay posted by Steven on 1/12/2002 at 3:41:43 PM
The red insert makes it different than anything that I have ever seen. For all I know, it may actually be a rare item. Apart from the insert it looks just like other Cinelli stems from the late 70's onward. The fixing system obliges you to thread the bars through which oftens scratches them. The bars also tend to creak quite loudly with this system because the clamping is often not as good as with the good original clamping system. On the front of the stem where the cinelli logo appears is also a weak spot and I have broken myself and seen others break this design stem.

   RE:MISC:   re Cinelli stem on eBay posted by Walter on 1/13/2002 at 12:24:05 PM
It sold for 71$ so I guess somebody thought it rare. I used the same style stem w/o the red insert for awhile in '85 or '86 and to be honest found it unsatisfactory, mainly b/c of the creaking noted above. The allen head clamp bolt is itself a soft alloy and I ended up marring mine in a vain effort to tighten it enough to stop the creaks. Went back and stayed with the non-aero 1A style.

MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by: Wings on 1/12/2002 at 6:31:54 AM
Last week I injured my left knee. It could be soft tissue damage or a cartilege tear. I have to cool it down for two weeks. I needed to ride my bike today! I went to a movie instead! It was not the same!!!

Long ago when injured as a runner -- I would bike!
If walking or hiking was a problem -- I would bike!

For me riding releases stress. The more stress I have in my life the more a ride seems to relax me. Being injured even creates more stress.

What have you done to continue exercising when you were unable to ride?

I thought of rowing. Rowing machine.

I thought of riding a trike with a crank arm on the handle bar. There is a guy that rides that way here because of a bad back. He built the trike! But this is a long term solution. What are short term solutions?

Since my left leg cannot make the 175 crank arm swing I thought an easy solution would be to put on a smaller left crank arm. I would try a BMX Dotek Crank (152) (which I have) and try it! I think this may work because the leverage would be better on the 175 foot and it will do most of the work while I go easy on the 152 foot. Of course I would Stay with an easy ride routine to avoid pain and additional injury.

It would be interesting to hear what you have done in similar situations!

   RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Stacey on 1/12/2002 at 12:20:31 PM
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Wing old buddy. It's always a wake up call when someone in your circle sustains damage, it reminds us of our vunerability.

The decrease in diameter sounds like the way to go, especially if it's just range of motion that's preventing you from using the 175. When I fragged my ACL in a motorcycle accident the stationary bike was an intergral part of my PT regiem... along with TENS, cold water soaks, and the RoM excersizes.

I'd say go for it... just take it easy, go for stamina then strength. Mend well my friend.

In the wind,

   RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Warren on 1/12/2002 at 2:14:00 PM
Here's a little anecdote for when you feel capable of getting on the bike again.

I had my knee "scoped" for a minicus tear and minor arthritis a couple of years ago, (I'm now 44). I was back on my bike after 4 days. I used a women's Raleigh Sports with the seat lowered. At the beginning I was actually pedalling with only the good leg. Then I was able to let it rotate with the crank. A couple of days in, I was pushing lightly. The frame allows easy mounting and dismounting.

When I started physio two weeks after my operation, the therapist looked at my helmet and demanded to know who said I could ride. I told her my doctor had said that pain would be my guide. I attended three sessions of physio in three weeks. They told me not to come bach as my knee had recovered to the point they had expected at the end of a normal two month regimen. We do heal well...chin up!

   knees posted by John E on 1/12/2002 at 5:51:16 PM
Since I have dislocated my left kneecap twice, at 25-year intervals, I feel your pain. Here's what I did after the more recent dislocation:
1) Had my orthopedist check it out, even though I had popped back in by myself almost immediately. (In high school, it had been out for 90 minutes, doing more damage by the minute, while I waited around for the ambulance, waited for the X-rays to be interpreted, etc. I learned my lesson!)
2) Bought a great little $10 paperback book, "Save Your Knees," by James Fox, M.D., the official orthopedic surgeon of the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, whose practice deals with knees exclusively.
3) Removed the left crank from my mountain bike while my knee was ina splint (first 2-3 weeks post-injury).
4) Did some one-legged studio cycling at the YMCA.
5) Started an upper body weight training program.
6) RAISED the saddle a bit as I eased back into cycling, creeping along in the mountain bike's grannie gear and avoiding hills. A short crank would have been a reasonable idea, since stiffness and loss of motion lingered for a few weeks after the pain was gone.
7) Did my own physical therapy and ongoing preventive maintenance, including knee lifts at the YMCA.

Yes, learn to listen to your body, and let your pain be your guide. Get well soon!

Get well soon!

   RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by glen on 1/12/2002 at 6:44:06 PM
In addition to being an avid cyclist I am also a physical therapist. If I were you I would seek out a skilled therapist specializing in sports-related injuries and have him/her assess you and develop with you a treatment plan that suits your needs.

Be careful with rehab advice given remotely: "soft tissue damage or a cartilage tear" is not nearly narrow enough for people to give you advice specific to certain types of knee injuries. For example, doing standard knee extension exercises to help keep your quads strong would likely be OK for a meniscal tear but may unnecessarily stress a sprained ACL (a strong quads contraction introduces an element of forward-shearing of one's shin relative to the thigh, and thus increasing the tensile load on the ACL).

Don't do things that increase the pain at your knee, try to maintain your upper and lower body strength and flexibility as best you can, and engage in regular moderate intensity aerobic activity. Eat right (plenty of vegetables, vitamin C). And for your sake I hope you're not a smoker...

   RE:RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Wings on 1/13/2002 at 7:14:25 AM
Wow, sounds familiar. I had the same problem on the same knee about 20 years ago. The first week home I used crutches to get to the curb. One of my kids held my bike and took the crutches as I got on and I remember riding with one foot also! What is wrong with us!!!! Most the guys i know would just watch TV and relax!
Thanks for that!

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Wings on 1/13/2002 at 7:27:35 AM
All of you had great comments! Thank you! Yes, my injury is happening at about a 25 year interval where I had arthro-scopy. At that younger age I came back as a stronger more determined runner! I can remember the challenge of fighting back and getting back in shape. I am in the anti-inflamatory stage and the pain is diminishing and really only came near to stopping me for two days. I am careful not to aggravate the situation. It may be a left outside miniscus tear. Or soft tissue.

Thanks on the advice regarding Quad Sets! I normally go right to quad sets! I will not do that this time. This next week I will find some good time to get out and one foot pedal -- get this -- I also have a recumbent trike that I could use also. The idea of just removing the left crank was a good idea. I thought of that last night also.
Thanks guys -- I will know more in a couple of weeks!
I will get the book by Fox -- His name is familiar, I bet I read him some time ago.
Thanks again!!!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Oscar on 1/14/2002 at 6:14:58 AM
Just think - only two more 25 year intervals to go!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Wings on 1/14/2002 at 7:15:36 AM

   RE:MISC:   What do you do when injured? posted by Jonathan on 1/14/2002 at 8:40:27 AM
Wings, you can try going on a tandem as the stoker, which would
allow selective differential pressure from zero to "whatever" you can deliver.
Swimming is a good way to workout without straining the knee joints...PROVIDING you stay clear of breastroke kicks!!
You definitely want to let the damage repair before pushing pedals. As you will probably tighten up, you will need to stretch and strengthen
gradually. Personally, I wouldn't rely on "pain" as an guide, as oftentimes the damage won't be felt until AFTER the strain. You can always
work on fixing up your bikes during your recovery period. Bottom line: keep off it until you get the green light to start working it back; you'll be less likely to have recurring or chronic recurrence.
This is my opinion as an athlete.

AGE / VALUE:   HALF LINKS FOR DERAILER CHAIN posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/10/2002 at 11:39:23 PM
These are half links for derailer chain on little orange-red cards. You pound them together with a hammer it is for repairing derailer chain. I have never seen these before. I picked some up despite the fact i'll never use them. Holler if you want some.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   HALF LINKS FOR DERAILER CHAIN posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/15/2002 at 11:16:15 PM
These are Bilet brand repair links for 3/32 chain

MISC:   Pista vs Strada HSs posted by: desmo on 1/10/2002 at 6:44:33 PM
I purchased a NOS Campy NR Pista HS for one of my road bikes as a back-up in case the original ever wears out, but I got a Pista HS because it seemed like a great deal. It essentially looks like a Strada HS but lacks the engraved writing on the cups. Will this swap out for my original HS or is the stack height or some other thing going to make this difficult or impossible?

   RE:MISC:   Pista vs Strada HSs posted by Keith on 1/10/2002 at 10:04:57 PM
I have both and have wondered the same thing. I don't think the stack on the Pista is any higher, so at most you'd have to add a spacer. I'll compare the two tonight.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Pista vs Strada HSs posted by desmo on 1/11/2002 at 1:20:23 AM
If they interchange can anyone even speculate why on earth they'd bother to make two different models? It makes no sense.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Pista vs Strada HSs posted by Steven on 1/12/2002 at 5:48:00 AM
After having lived there for over 10 years, need you say more than they were produced in Italy and they are beautiful.