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Archived: Vintage Lightweights

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Balila Brakes posted by: Tony on 1/24/2002 at 6:45:46 PM
I have a old Olmo road bike circa 1958 which my dad bought for my brother in 1962. I lost the brake calipers. They were balilla side pulls. I still have the levers. Does anyone know where I might find a pair. I own a bike shop and they are the only ones I have ever seen in the 27 years I have been here. I have a couple of other bike on consignment some collectors might be interested in. One is a Cinelli circa 1980 with a mixture of campy components. Another is a Atala with a custom Cycle Arts paint job circa 1975. Thirdly a Peugeot with 531 frame and fork, Ofmega cranks, sew-ups. Fourthly I have a Rizzato Olympic bike which needs to be restored. It has Magistrani cranks Simplex derailers, universall brakes. very original and I imagine circa 1955. There are probably alot of other things too. If you would like pictures or more info please e-mail me at Bikepal@aol.com. Thanks

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Balila Brakes posted by Oscar on 1/26/2002 at 3:05:59 AM
I have a bike with a pair of Balilla centerpulls. I've never seen their sidepulls. They had nice levers.

AGE / VALUE:   Re vintage crankset identity posted by: wayne davidson on 1/24/2002 at 4:30:25 PM
Hi all, I have a RH crank steel cottered painted black and a alloy
chainring bolted to it. The chainring would take a 3/32" chain and is a 3
bolt, sorry don't know the BBC as don't have aruler handy, and is 1/2"
std pitch with 51 teeth and marked magistroni, the crankarm looks plated
under the paint and has DURAX up by the cotter position on the arm. My
question is are they matched or mismatched, I think they are from the
60's according to the guy I just bought them off they are, would be glad
of nay help......regards wayne......

   ubiquitous BCD posted by John E on 1/25/2002 at 3:03:04 AM
Magistroni made headsets, cranks, and, as you observe, chainrings. Because everyone used the same BCD for 3-pin cottered cranks, the arm could be a Magistroni, or it could be Agrati, TA, Stronglight, Nervar, etc. etc. (For what it's worth, "Durax" sounds French to me.) 1960s sounds correct to me, as well.

AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by: Dick on 1/24/2002 at 4:04:57 AM
My lucky day for sure. On my way home from work today, I stopped to meet a very nice couple from whom I had won an ebay auction for a vintage Brooks b72 saddle and pick it up. As luck would have it, they live only a few miles from where I work in So. Cal. When I called to arrange the meeting (save the shipping costs) he asks me if I'm a collector. Yes, with over a dozen bikes, I guess I am. He then tells me that he is going to just give me a pristine (his word) Raleigh Grand Prix because he wants it to go to a good home. I wasn't prepared for this bike at all. The bike is totally original except for the missing seat. It's about 57-58cm frame. Made in Holland with the full wrap-over seat stays and a nice little decal on the seat tube "Fabricated in Holland" in French. At the top of the seat tube is a decal "2030 Raleigh Bicycle Tubing". The frame constuction shows craftsmanship that IMHO predates the "bike boom-slap-it-together" look of the 70's. Very nice braze and lugwork and fit. It far out-shines my recently aquired early 70's Super Course (and it's pretty nice). The chrome tipped forks don't have the nice graceful full-length bend of the Super Course though. Simplex front and rear. Raleigh Heron marked 170mm cranks. Raleigh "R" nuts on seat post clamp and front and rear axles. And here is the really cool part. The hubs are chromed steel 3-piece stamped "Brampton Made in England". And the rear hub is a flip-flop! I have no reason to believe that these are not original equipment. They are laced to very nice sttel rims with serrated braking surfaces. Wienmann 750 center-pulls w/white rubber hooded levers. GB stem and unnamed alloy bars. And the tires are barely worn Raleigh branded gumwalls. The only downside is that when you lift it, it's a tank. The very reason that my usual "low limit" for bicycle aquisition is that it must have high-end tubing. I have a 5-3-1 fetish. I hate to do it, but I'm afraid that this beauty is going to become a parts doner for my Dawes Galaxy restoration. But that frame is going to end up on the wall as an example of how even a low-end bike can show pride of workmanship. The "grupo" is correct for the Daews restoration except for the wheels. I just need the generic Normandy-Weinmann/Mavic setup for that. I am most excited about the hubs though. They are high flange with 1/4'-3/8" dia. holes around and through the flanges. I'd swear I recently saw a beautifully polished set of these somewhere on the 'net listed as "NOS early 50's Schwinn track hubs" selling for $200. Can anyone confirm this? I've been wanting to build a fix gear road bike with one of my 531 Brit bikes for some time now. Since these hubs came with those nice "R" nuts, it seems appropriate to set up the Super Course as the fixed gear with these Brampton wheels. And that NOS honey blonde B17 I recently picked up will look really nice with the copper-colored Raleigh paint. I shall be a force to be reckoned with on the bike trail! Sweet dreams!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by Rob on 1/24/2002 at 6:06:16 AM
Hi Dick,

Seems we're on a similar 'wavelength'... I 'posted' on my two early 70's Super Courses, one green; one copper, in early December. I was quite amazed when I first rode the green one...the way it handled, the efficiency, the elegance, etc. I almost picked up two early '70's Grand Prix's in early January. They were in a consignment store...I was waiting for the price to drop a bit more...others beat me out. In fact, as I was walking towards the store on one trip, I saw a young teenager test riding one of them...I hope he appreciates it...I probably would have gone after the parts. Since last summer I've bought quite a few other bikes...most recently a late 70's, early 80's Benotto which looks pretty impressive...I haven't ridden it yet...flat tires, bad weather. I also like Peugeots (who doesn't?) and if there were more around here (Vancouver), I'm sure I would be chasing down Paramounts.

I'd be interested in knowing how your Super Course is setup...is it 'stock'? Replaced derailleurs, rims and hubs?

Have fun...

   British bikes posted by John E on 1/24/2002 at 2:28:40 PM
(Or even made-in-Holland, British-marque bikes ...)
The only British bikes I have ever owned were generic, heavy-framed Armstrong and Hercules 3-speeds. You guys are making me lust after a 1960s or 1970s British frame with at least a 531 main triangle. As the owner of one Italian, one French, one Austrian, and one American bike, I obviously need something from the British Isles.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by dick on 1/24/2002 at 2:38:54 PM
Rob, since you like Peugeots, have a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1057269158&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1010532853&indexURL=0&rd=1. I traded this bike to Jim Cunningham at Cyclart (plus some neat stuff from my junk drawer and some cash) for a gorgeous Ron Cooper. The reserve was not met on this auction but Jim put it up again and I believe it went for $275. I picked it up for much less than that. This particular Peugeot had really nice components and it was super light (as are all PX10's) but the workmanship was IMHO "typical Peugeot" i.e. barely acceptable. I believe high-end models of any brand should have nearly flawless lugwork and clean brazing. I've never seen a Peugeot that has that. Alright, Enough Peugeot bashing. About Benetto's. I've never seen one. However, as I posted (tagged onto your earlier metion of this mark) I've located a Benotto tandem that I'm going to look at this wekend. The owner tells me that it is a tenspeed and it is a fairly large frame and it is made in Mexico. That's all I know so far. I'll post what I see next week.
I too have bought a few bikes since last summer. Too many Motobecanes, the Peugeot, My Dawes frame, some Raleighs (including a nice Competition GS) and I still have my Paramount that I bought new in 1971 while I was working in a Schwinn Shop in Reno, Nev. Oh yes, and My wife and I enjoy riding our wierd but slick GT tandem.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by Dick on 1/24/2002 at 3:31:21 PM
I forgot to answer your question about how my Super Course is set up. See my earlier post "Just want to share (gloat)" about one page back for my description of this "new-to-my-collection" bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by dafydd williams on 1/24/2002 at 4:08:29 PM
I picked up a Brampton hub the other day on ebay:


Certainly not trying to burst any bubbles. Mine has some potentially serious problems. Your find is still a great one in my book!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by Tony on 1/24/2002 at 7:53:33 PM
What color is the Raleigh Gran Prix you got free. In the mid 70s when I started working in my shop Raleigh made that bike in 4 colors each year. Red, Green, Blue, White, all with big black decals were common place from about 1973 to 1977, maybe even later. The hubs sound more like what was common on the Raleigh Record models. In my 1973 Raleigh part catalog they call that hub a Resilion. Does your rear hub have 40 holes. If you would like a picture I could scan it and send it to you. Tony, The Bike Palace San Pedro, CA.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by Dick on 1/24/2002 at 10:09:12 PM
Just curious. Based on the ebay item description, it was in pretty poor shape. Why did you bid on it? The price was certainly right. I probably would have bid on it myself had I seen it. Do you have a fixed gear project in the works? Also, based on the seller's comments, I'm a little more certain that Brampton was the supplier of some early Schwinn Paramount track hubs as I recalled above.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by Dick on 1/24/2002 at 10:20:15 PM
Tony, the bike is good old "Raleigh green". There is a sticker at the base of the seat tube from Central Cycle, Inc., Revere, Mass. I assume that is the shop that originally sold it. Yes, I would like a picture. When you say Raleigh Record, do you mean Record Ace? Does your shop have a website?

   RE: Brampton hub posted by dafydd_williams on 1/25/2002 at 2:03:52 AM
Hi Dick, I bought it partially on a lark, partially for more rational reasons. 1) The price was right as you said 2) I have a carlton that came with a Brampton high-flange front hub, so why not have a matching set 3) The wingnuts 4) Hopefully the cone can be polished, the axle straightened or replaced when the desire for a fixed gear hits me. Not a great buy, but not a terrible one either. Just a lucky OK find.

   Peugeot workmanship posted by John E on 1/25/2002 at 2:35:19 PM
Amen, Dick, to your comments regarding Peugeot workmanship. My 1980 Peugeot PKN-10 and 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia should be of comparable overall quality, with mixed tubesets featuring butted moly-steel main triangles, but the Bianchi is gorgeous, whereas the "almost a PX-10" has ugly seams on the backs of the fork blades, visible brazing gaps at the rear dropouts, crooked decals, and a much less durable paint job. Based on recent eBay activity, I estimate that the Bianchi is now worth twice as much as the Peugeot, even though its original retail price was only 20-30 percent higher.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A free Raleigh Grand Prix! posted by TONY @ THE BIKE PALACE on 1/26/2002 at 12:42:48 AM

AGE / VALUE:   what is it? posted by: Penny Juhl on 1/23/2002 at 11:01:22 PM
Trying to find out what I bought/ It is a Huffy that has two switches on the tank (that don't work but think they are for lights and a horn) and then there is a black airplane on the front fender. It is a female bike and has a bananna seat on it which I think was added later. If anyone can help me figure out what this is and when it was made I would appreciate it. I want to restore it but need to see something to copy first. Thank you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what is it? posted by Chris C. on 1/25/2002 at 3:44:51 PM
I am aware of one model of Huffy bike that had the tank with two switches (for the light and horn, as you thought). That bike had a chrome-plated frame, with the tank, chainguard, and rear carrier painted. I think that the model name was 'Silver Jet'. The airplane on the front fender was originally chrome-plated, but being plastic, the plating wears off easily. These bikes did not have banana seats as original equipment. Is your bike a 24 or 26 inch model? The bike is most likely from the early to mid-1960's. If you can post the first two characters of the serial number, I might be able to determine the exact year. The serial number should be a number followed by a letter, located on the left-rear dropout, where the rear wheel attaches.

AGE / VALUE:   what is it? posted by: Penny Juhl on 1/23/2002 at 11:01:22 PM
Trying to find out what I bought/ It is a Huffy that has two switches on the tank (that don't work but think they are for lights and a horn) and then there is a black airplane on the front fender. It is a female bike and has a bananna seat on it which I think was added later. If anyone can help me figure out what this is and when it was made I would appreciate it. I want to restore it but need to see something to copy first. Thank you.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   what is it? posted by Walter on 1/23/2002 at 11:29:53 PM
This site has an area for "muscle" bikes. You're probably beetter off posting there. I don't follow that collecting much but I think Huffy might have a desirable musclebike or 2. They don't have much else to be honest.

AGE / VALUE:   Trek 620 Tourer...opinions? posted by: Warren on 1/23/2002 at 9:48:49 PM
Just saw a this bike in a store and I think I want it because I sold my C-dale T1000 last year and regretted it...Maillard Heliomatic rear-Normandy Luxe front/Sachs Huret derailleurs/Stonglight Headset/Diacompe cantis/Shimano crank. The frame was dull grey, sticker says 531 Butted Frame. It's my size...it's only $200 cdn. Good deal? Bad deal? I know the Heliomatic is a lost cause but that's a hub swap. It's the rest of the bike I know nothing about. What year might this be...early 80's?

   Trek 620 Tourer posted by John E on 1/23/2002 at 10:46:49 PM
The price is high, unless the frame is really pristine. You may be able to use the Helicomatic to leverage the price down. Normandy Luxe Competition hubs are decent, though their bearing surfaces are less durable than Campy's. Shimano has made various grades of aluminum cranks over the years, and several models have been prone to breakage and/or subject to safety recalls. There is nothing wrong with DiaCompe canti brakes or Stronglight headsets, and the Sachs/Huret derailleurs are adequate. I generally like Trek frames, and the fact that it fits you is a major plus.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Trek 620 Tourer...opinions? posted by John on 1/25/2002 at 6:22:25 AM
Had a 1983/4 620 pass through my basement. Great touring frame, beautiful workmanship and details for the tourer. Mine came with Suntour Cyclone II derailleurs, very light. Sugino triple crank. Suntour Superbe brakeset - great breaks. And those Heliocomatic hubs - I thought they were not original, but alas, they were.

I purchased mine at a bike swap for far, far less than $200, but it was a great deal I couldn't pass up though the frame was way too small for me.

I kept many of the parts, sold the bike to a women who was planning to tour in Africa - a great legacy for a deserving frame.

AGE / VALUE:   JC Higgins help posted by: Don Mowery on 1/23/2002 at 2:34:42 PM
I posted info on the wrong site ,It is on Midel weight/Vintage site but Iwill yry to put most of it hera ,I hava a JC HIGGINS 3 speed with an aluminion kick stand that says made in austra on the stand tires are marked Semplrx or t ,size 26 by 1 3/8, has calaper brakes all black except about 7 inch of the rear fender , has redish / orange hand pinstriping on it before the decals were put on, any and all help needed the sprocket has cutouts that say JC Higgins alsu fender brace , have a second bike that has a 3 speed gear box in place of a pedel crank Ineed help on this one to , Many thanks for any help

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   JC Higgins help posted by Robert on 1/23/2002 at 8:09:23 PM
I'll venture a guess on your second bike. It sounds like that the bike with the gearbox is one that has been fitted with a DANA transmission. These gearboxes could be fitted to just about any bike that came with a one piece crank assembly. If it is a DANA gearbox, their name should be cast into the back side of it. Also if it is a DANA conversion it could be almost any brand of bike.

   Steyr posted by John E on 1/23/2002 at 9:08:19 PM
Almost all American-branded (Sears, JCHiggins, etc.), Austrian-made bikes of the 1960s and 1970s were made by Steyr-Daimler-Puch (Graz, Austria), the company which produced the respected AustroDaimler marque of the 1980s. The only other major Austrian bike manufacturer, Capo, was a much smaller-scale operation with very limited exports to the U.S., and always, as far as I know, under their own name.

AGE / VALUE:   The old DeNult posted by: Gralyn on 1/23/2002 at 12:32:41 PM
I posted a week or so ago about a DeNult (Or DuNelt) I can't keep it straight....but it was your classic English Lightweight! It was in really good shape, too. I stopped by the antique store yesterday...just to see if it was still there.....IT WAS GONE! But I really wasn't surprised.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   The old DeNult posted by Oscar on 1/24/2002 at 4:52:26 AM
Don't gnash your teeth over this one. Dunelts were find looking middle-grade English bikes. Unsual to see these days and pretty as all getout, but there are better bikes out there.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh "Rialto" posted by: Helen on 1/23/2002 at 5:28:27 AM
Being the bicycle dunce that I am, can anyone give me some info on a Raleigh "Rialto" lightweight. I think it's from the 70's? A friend is offering to give it to me since I owned a girl's Raleigh when I was young and so therefore I find myself rather fond of the Raleighs. Perhaps you could suggest a website where I maybe able to obtain some info on it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh posted by Oscar on 1/24/2002 at 4:59:15 AM
I've think I've seen one around town. Looks like a decent road bike, possibly one of the models that Raleigh had made in Asia.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Whitewall tires; correct era for use? posted by: Bob on 1/22/2002 at 11:37:15 PM
A few years ago, I was in Britain and Austria, and made a point of buying various British-made and German/Austrian-made parts for my bikes. I picked up some Semperit whitewall tires, 1 & 3/8", but now I am wondering about whether to use them on my 1960s era Sears/Puch 3-speed. Anyone have opinions?

   Whitewall tires; correct era for use? posted by John E on 1/23/2002 at 2:38:36 PM
For what it's worth, my 1962 bottom-of-the-line Bianchi Corsa 10-speed came with 26" x 1-3/8" x 1-1/4" Pirelli Stella whitewalls. I think Semperit whitewalls are quite appropriate for an Austrian or German bike of the same period. Does anyone have an old Sears catalogue?

AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by: Dan on 1/22/2002 at 10:21:17 PM
After year's of hearing the tale on an aging German farmer who live's in a most unlikely very rural farming area near my home and who was said to have built racing frame's for Olympic athelete's which fetch $1,000's of dollar's. I decided this morning to find this legend in downstate Illinois. I was told he would be in his 80's, he was, that he spoke with a German accent, he did, and that I would find him just 40 kilometer's from my home, I did.
His name is Langhy and his frame's are a work of Art. He showed me his work in photograph's being ridden in National event's and he also showed me his shop which contained several built frame's and one in primer he is finishing for a Son-in-law. This former racer/builder had told me he had won race's in Europe and would show me his photograph's on my next visit. I had thought about framebuilding when my own racing exploit's wound down, after hearing local farmer's tell of this fellow Langhy my thought's were I could be an apprentice to this man if he was still building.
But time has slowed this Artist, and he has sold one of his jig's to a fellow a few year's back who had also heard of his talent's and searched Langhy out. But one jig remain's and I could see that Mr.Langhy still had the torch fire's burning in his eye's when he said now if he had a good worker to help him he could still make the silver flow like before. Was he hinting to me? I would love to think that he was, I will visit him again soon and see if there is still a desire to build one more and offer my help in assisting in anyway. Beside's he promised to show me his photo album of his racing day's and I would bring along mine for his viewing. Do any owner's of Langhy Built frame's made mostly in the Chicagoland area when he was working for the Schwinn Co. read this message board? If you do, do you have a story or a praise I can relate to this legend about his frame's on my next visit. Mr. Langhy and me are a rare (Bike racer's) breed in this area of the country. And he would love to hear from former friend's and owner's. Please post if you have heard or own a Langhy built frame by Langhy Enginering of Hammond, IN. Thank's Dan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Oscar on 1/23/2002 at 4:43:12 AM
I ride all around Chicago, but I never seen or heard. I'll keep the eyes peeled. Where is he in downstate?

Jim Ryan ain't as bad as they make him out. Bad Corrine.

   small-scale frame builders posted by John E on 1/23/2002 at 2:46:58 PM
I enjoy hearing about small-scale custom framebuilders, and it's always fun to meet one and to allow him to show off his wares. I know one former racer who just sold his bike shop so that he can focus on framebuilding, and when I lived in Los Angeles, I used to enjoy watching A.D.Stump cruise into Bikecology/Supergo on one of his immaculate 19-lb (not bad for 1974!) black-chrome creations.

   Bayliss posted by John E on 1/23/2002 at 2:52:33 PM
Speaking of custom frame builders, last Saturday I had the privilege of cycling and eating pizza with Brian Bayliss, who showed up for the group ride on one of his own creations with an elaborate green-and-white finish over equally elegant lugwork, and a radical set of stays.

   RE:Bayliss posted by Dan on 1/23/2002 at 4:38:06 PM
In my original post I hadn't mentioned the trademark styling Mr. Langhy was quick to point out to me on a frame in primer, how the lug's were his own, certain elongated indention's at the top of the seat stay's were his only, how his rear dropout's were his trademark a sort of tribal looking loop-back and down to a near downward point, a quicker wheelchange results, the dropout's were drilled with a line of hole's on top and around the dropout. It had a striking steel fork where the sides of the fork crown shown an artistic effect of three slight steel scallup's overlapping each other. We just don't see to many talented framebuilder's in these neck of the wood's. Dan

   RE:RE:Bayliss posted by Dan on 1/23/2002 at 4:48:17 PM
Can you tell I'm just beside myself after meeting with Mr. Langhy, I should sleep but I CAN'T.

   RE:Bayliss posted by Dick on 1/23/2002 at 4:49:13 PM
I had the privilege to meet Mr. Bayliss at the Velo Rendezvous Event in Pasadena this past October. He had just finished the bike that you speak of and brought it to ride on the group ride. It is indeed beautiful bike. I think I have some photos of it somewhere. Unfortunately, I don't have the means to get them onto the 'net.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Rudgematch on 1/23/2002 at 6:49:28 PM

You might like to share your discovery with the Classic Rendezvous list or the Framebuilders List. I bet they'd love to find out more and they'd probably encourage you to go back and take up the torch. What a great chance to apprentice with a master builder and keep the skills and knowledge alive. Not to say you have any obligation to do so, just that if you're leaning that way, I'll nudge you a little bit.
Go ahead... sign up for a "framebuilding class".

Thanks for the tidbit.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Schwinnderella on 1/23/2002 at 10:48:39 PM
I live in the chicago area,and I have seen several of these frames ,I think around 20 years ago. I do not recall any of the details. I think a local bike shop may have sold these at one time . I have t-shirt iron-ons from this shop which read Langhy Special. I think I got these around 1980.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/24/2002 at 12:38:28 AM
Please gather information and pictures and send them in to the CR group. Somebody else can develop and scan the pictures and they can use your notes and assemble a lasting tribute to this man and his cycles that he has so lovingly produced. Many people who find existing examples of his work won't find anything in print on the net if you don't take my advice. This is like hitting the lottery.
80 is very old, please act quickly. You would be surprised how many heirs would not hesitate to throw it all out. And if it is preserved somehow and it won't because it'll go to estate sale where it'll get scattered to the four winds. Withdraw some funds and buy, buy, buy! You have the proper heart or else you wouldn't not have written about it like you have and you said you can't sleep. Take his offer and learn from a master. The time you spend will be well worth it.
Be smart and please don't put your foot in it like I did when I was 16.
( I failed to record history, get pictures( I have some but not enough) or even hold onto permanently what I did manage to pick up to my anguish. Usually you don't get to see things like this until after they're no longer with us and it's too late.
Mention to him the active interest in old bicycles there is today. He'll agree for pictures if you tell him about the computer and the classic rendevous site. Tell him he's gonna take his place amongst the best and brightest where it will be shown and told. He'll like that. Then follow thru and make it happen. Good luck and remember
You won't see his likes again. The old school folks like this are slipping away and through our fingers into obscurity where what they did and how they did it will be lost to us.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Chris on 1/24/2002 at 1:04:15 AM
It can very likely wind up in the dump. It happens all the time, unless you are there. You may just bear the burden of seeing to it that it does not go all to waste and seeing that the history is set down and recorded. It is shaping up to be your job and your contribution to vintage cycles. I speak about knowledge, history, actual things like frame building tools, procedures, unbuilt bikes, everything. His stories can answer historians questions before they are asked. He worked for Schwinn, Good God! That too.
How many times do they say come estate sale clean up time "What is all this crap?" "I dunno!" And four hefty movers with strong backs and ignorant uncaring minds heave it out into the trash so the house can be speedily renovated and rushed into the Real Estate market.
Eric said to me "Chris, it all went to landfill." I sat down and we were quiet for awhile. Or another story about "What in blazes did that old country doctor know that was so special to stop a stroke cold in 1921 like he did." That man was special, what he knew and practiced was unique. Whatever notes he left that could have revealed this were thrown out by a wife who believed that he worked himself to death helping people.
50 years later when we watched someone dear have and suffer a stroke we thought of that long dead doctor from St. Louis and we longed for him and whatever it was that he had in his medical bag. The modern doctor said "No, Sorry, nothing like that!"
Now today, THEY DO! You rush them into emergency and within two hours they give a shot of something and they can reverse stroke damage.
The incredible and mighty things that ordinary Americans have accomplished, invented, conceived of is unbelievable. The sticking thing is that you have to fight to see that it survives.Fight to see it is not thrown out at the kerb and taken away or stolen. Bicycle framebuilders to doctors, whatever it is about. Don't let their love and work and goodwill slip into obscurity. This man gave his lifes work for bicycle framebuilding and it was not easy work too.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Dan on 1/24/2002 at 2:40:35 AM
This weekend I'll visit with Mr. Langhy, I will ask his permission to gather some history on himself and his framebuilding past and his part in the Schwinn story. I will ask Mr.Langhy to teach me the art of framebuilding only if his health will not be stressed. Otherwise I will let known my wishes to purchase his ware's and plan's if he were to sell. Thank you all for your suggestion's and comment's, I'll keep you updated. Dan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Artisian found in Oz ! posted by Rob on 1/24/2002 at 5:36:11 AM
I certainly share the general sentiments being expressed in this thread. Do all you can to 'preserve the heritage' represented by this person. Craftsmanship and true artisans seem to rely on appreciation...the financial rewards don't seem to be there for most of them. The vast numbers of department store bikes attest to the level of knowledge most buyers bring to the marketplace.

What brought me back to the 'old 10-speeds' was the relatively recent experience of riding a 30 yr old Raleigh Super Course. I was amazed at how it rode and handled, and its general elegance...and this bike is only a mid-level, factory produced product. What would I have thought if this experience had been on an old, top-level DeRosa, Masi or Cinelli, or one of the English or French custom-build bikes? Over the years I had gotten used to the slow, clunky mountain bikes...don't get me wrong, mtn. bikes have their place, but somehow craftsmanship, elegance, efficiency, grace, etc., don't seem to be part of that experience.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by: Brian L. on 1/22/2002 at 6:54:34 PM

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by Gralyn on 1/22/2002 at 9:24:25 PM
I just put my bid in on it.....almost a joke, though....kinda like buying a lottery ticket.

   I like old racers posted by Walter on 1/22/2002 at 10:18:37 PM
In fact I obsess over a similar vintage Watsyn 6 Day racer that went unbid some months ago. I wonder how this'll do? Neat bike but do those spokes look like new stainless steel to anyone else?

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by Art on 1/23/2002 at 1:21:59 AM
Cool bike, but I bet the reserve is enormous...museum quality, special shipping etc. This bike will either bring out the really big bucks or not make reserve, I think. Art

   RE:I like old racers posted by Warren on 1/23/2002 at 1:25:56 AM
You and I both with that Watsyn . My favourite bike yet and it's a good thing we didn't both have money to bid against each other!

There are not enough pics of this bike. I don't know enough about that period of racers but the stem looks longer than normal. I thought inch pitch was "de rigeur" as well but what the heck. I would like to know the reserve on a bike like this. It could be a fishing expedition.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by Ray on 1/23/2002 at 8:28:16 PM
I don't claim to be an expert but were there cable actuated caliper brakes back in 1925? If so I have not seen many and I have seen a lot of old bikes.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by Warren on 1/23/2002 at 9:45:17 PM
There is a picture of Bottechia racing in the 1925 Tour de France and it does appear to have these brakes/levers. Look it up (Google-image search/Bottechia)...there are cool shots from many different years but I saw no close-ups of bikes so I couldn't say this is the same bike

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   check this out posted by Chris on 1/24/2002 at 1:25:58 AM
"Who's Oscar Watzyn? I dunno! Never heard of him"
"Clyde, ever hear of Oscar Watsyn? No, sorry never heard of him."
You can have it for 50.00, It's in the way, and bikes never sell here.
Unless the buyer or trashpicker bothers to type in "Oscar Watsyn" or more bother of looking in some book.
they won't know. Unless they take it in to some shop where they have half a brain and then it winds up in somebody's collection and not ridden about with upturned bars like a common Huffy.
Thank God a Watsyn machine stands out from the crowd. But only with bike fans.
Oscar and his legacy and his bikes are in good hands and bike lovers will know and think he's a cool figure in the future. The name won't lose it's lustre.
Other builders are not so lucky sometimes.

The man set down his beer and said S--- I don't know! You want that? We gotta get it down! Soon it's sold for beer money by somebody who doesn't know or care and they were happy I took it off their hands.
I wheel it in my pals shop to play 50 questions( I'm special you know) and he nearly chokes on his lunch. Soon I'm learing about rims and derailer units and I keep hearing. That's a rare one, special rims yada, yada, then they want to buy it and all that.
I ask Neuvo Record or is it Super Record Campagnolo Is that good?

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton e-bay outing posted by: Warren on 1/22/2002 at 2:17:18 PM
Go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1066092696 for a nice Carlton. Not my size but definitely one I would like to own, build-up and ride.

VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old road bike posted by: Greg Ginn on 1/21/2002 at 8:13:23 AM
Can anyone enlighten me on a bike called Sanwa. I have just purchased one for commuting. I can't find info regarding these bikes anywhere. It has a full Shimano 600 component group. Is this an old classic or a piece of junk? Thank you

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old road bike posted by Harris on 1/21/2002 at 7:12:49 PM
Nothing that is all 600 group is a piece of junk. That component group today is on $1200-$2000 bikes. NEver heard of your bike though................

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old road bike posted by Bob on 1/22/2002 at 5:35:54 PM
Shimano 600 is the middle line below Dura Ace. It suggests a high quality bike. As I recall the Shimano 600 went through some design development so you might be able to date your bike by the styhle of the components.

This is probably a Japanese bike. While some of these are excellent bikes, they tend not to have the collector allure that European bikes do. If the bike is pristine and you want to hold on to it and keep it pristine it may gain in value, but given the "unknown" brand don't expect too much.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Old road bike posted by ken on 1/24/2002 at 7:11:46 PM
All true; the Sanwa is a decent Japanese product; The 600 group evolved into Ultegra not too long ago. If you have an early group it has gorgeous decorative scrollwork on the shift levers and even the rear derailleur cage. The calipers and shifters are extremely good. Mine were new in 79 (?), but on a cheap massive frame, which I believe was more prevalent then than now. If yours isn't heavy, it's a rider; otherwise IMHO it's worth more as parts.

AGE / VALUE:   'Aero' Benotto posted by: Rob on 1/21/2002 at 4:38:26 AM
Just picked up a Benotto, early 80's I assume, with 'aero' type tubing. Color is 'champagne'. I've looked around on the 'net, but haven't found too much. I think it's mostly original. Mostly Shimano 600...side pulls, levers, shifters, front derailleur, crank is Adamas. Headset, Shimano. Rear der. is SunTour Cyclone; hubs, SunTour Superb Pro; Handlebars aero...Nitto 'AERODYNAMICSBAR'. Stem, I don't know, but it looks nice, I guess it's an aero design. Rims are nice, aero, but I don't know the brand. Dropouts, at least the rear, are Campagnolo. Nice Campy platform pedals...put on after I would guess. The head badge is gone...judging from the adhesive left behind, it would have been a 'stick-on'. I noticed two tone blue striping, I think that's part of the Benotto motif, just below the upper head race. Three 'Benotto' name decals are located on the sides of the seat tube...they weren't lined up all that well...factory? or later 'add-ons'? Could someone tell me what I have...model, etc.? When and where it was built?...Italy or Mexico? What would the original compeonent group have been? The 'aero' rims are really quite attractive...I've looked in the obvious places for the brand...? I paid $80CDN ($50US) at a 'buy-sell' store...probably paid too much...?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   'Aero' Benotto posted by Warren on 1/21/2002 at 11:07:42 PM
Nice bike at a great price. The components are great...probably a Mexico bike. Possibly Ishwata tubing...yes I've seen several of these bikes with Campag drops. I would guess Rigida rims. You paid way too much! I'll give you $85

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   'Aero' Benotto posted by Rob on 1/22/2002 at 5:33:41 AM
Thanks Warren,

Will the make of the rims be marked inside somewhere?

Also, the freewheel is Shimano Dura Ace, 13.....21; chain rings, 52,42. The bike weights about 22 lb, so I guess once I get it 'tweaked up', it's really going to move...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   'Aero' Benotto posted by Warren on 1/22/2002 at 1:49:39 PM
The Rigida rims I'm thinking of were silver-beige in colour and had yellow/pink oval stickers. Once the stickers are gone...who knows? 22 lbs is nice and light...enjoy it.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   'Aero' Benotto posted by WArren on 1/22/2002 at 2:13:11 PM
Have a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1065592288 to see another example

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tandem Benotto posted by Dick on 1/23/2002 at 2:11:01 PM
I've just located Benotto tandem. I haven't seen it yet. I have an appointment to go look at it. The seller says it's a Mexico bike and it's a tenspeed and a fairly large frame. That's all he could tell me. Has anyone ever seen one and what should I offer if it's in good shape?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Tandem Benotto posted by Warren on 1/24/2002 at 4:11:01 AM
How bad do you want it, how good is the quality and what are you willing to pay? It's likely a good bike especially if it's a "ten speed": ie 70's bike maybe made in Italy. Blue book depends on components and condition... a grand? Less...more...